Author Topic: Stop slut-shaming the obese!  (Read 1019 times)

MillCreek

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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Pb

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2020, 09:29:07 AM »
HEALTHY AT ANY SIZE BIGOT!

Ben

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2020, 09:37:21 AM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

230RN

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2020, 09:51:36 AM »
HEALTHY AT ANY SIZE BIGOT!

I may be off-base here, but I think the article is pointing out that the anxieties about weight are just as (or more) important than the actual excess weight.

I feel bad for a really overweight acquaintance of mine who is trying to lose weight, but was inquiring as to the best kind of multiple-use toaster oven to buy.

Quote
From OP's citation.
Despite growing research about the negative impact of weight stigma, “concern trolling” — criticism disguised as support or concern — remains a popular pastime. When weight is the subject, it’s often fat-shaming disguised as concern for someone’s health.

Being instinctually aware of this, I kept my mouth shut and did not point out the incongruity between his weight loss regimen and the inquiry about the "best" food-making appliance.

I'm so noble...

Terry, 230RN


K Frame

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2020, 10:01:09 AM »
"I feel bad for a really overweight acquaintance of mine who is trying to lose weight, but was inquiring as to the best kind of multiple-use toaster oven to buy."

Why? You can cook a lot of healthy stuff in a multi-use toaster oven, not just not pockets and french fries.

I have a MUTO that I've found to be about perfect for roasting vegetables.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

dogmush

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2020, 10:05:18 AM »
I won't shame people, but I refuse to go along with the delusion that being obese is healthy or OK.

Like Terry, this means I usually just don't say anything.  Family members that ask my advice, get my honest opinion.  I have a lot of the sterotyped "southern" women in my family, and no, that diet and body isn't healthy or OK.  They are going to die younger than they otherwise would.


I guess I did sorta fat shame an acquaintance earlier this week.  He was asking me (in the context of CCW) what he could do to be better prepared if he got caught in a mob.  He wanted me to tell him to buy a new gun, but I told him "Range time and Cardio".

fifth_column

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 10:32:36 AM »
I've known people that would be officially considered obese that are in much, much better cardiovascular shape than I am.  I've been to marathons (filming, I've never run one) and seen plenty of overweight people finish the race easily.  And I've seen people that look to be in terrific shape drop out or essentially crawl across the finish line. 
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people.  -  Catherine Engelbrecht

MechAg94

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 10:32:39 AM »
Well....cardio is important in preparing for any stressful situation.  Even if you don't run.  
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ron

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 10:40:56 AM »
I go back and forth between is obesity downstream of mental health or is mental health downstream of obesity?

When I'm down for extended periods of time, bouts of general dysphoria, I will eat and drink more, causing me to gain weight.

I've found that physical exercise and better eating habits can play a part in breaking me out of a funk.

I've also found that self examination and reflection can both put me in and get me out a funk and that plays a role in my weight gain/loss.

So there is a symbiosis there, at least in my personal experience.

But, I'm also blessed in that dietary changes and ramping up of exercise habits actually in time allow me to lose weight.

There is also the genetic and/or hormonal component.

Some folks gain weight easier than others due to genetics or some type of hormonal imbalance.

I have a lot of obesity on one side of my family. They are a very dramatic group, and they do eat and drink in excess. Is it genetic? Is it downstream of their personalities and philosophies about life? Who knows?

There are so many variables that I try and keep from using a persons weight as a weapon in any rhetorical skirmishes in which I'm engaged.  

I mountainbike with a friend who is without question considered obese by medical standards. He could lose 60#s and still be heavy. He kicks a lot of folks butts on the trail. He is strong, real strong, has decades of consistent riding so his body has years of conditioning and muscle memory. I still worry for him though.

 

 
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

fifth_column

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 10:57:17 AM »
I go back and forth between is obesity downstream of mental health or is mental health downstream of obesity?

When I'm down for extended periods of time, bouts of general dysphoria, I will eat and drink more, causing me to gain weight.

I've found that physical exercise and better eating habits can play a part in breaking me out of a funk.

I've also found that self examination and reflection can both put me in and get me out a funk and that plays a role in my weight gain/loss.

So there is a symbiosis there, at least in my personal experience.

But, I'm also blessed in that dietary changes and ramping up of exercise habits actually in time allow me to lose weight.

There is also the genetic and/or hormonal component.

Some folks gain weight easier than others due to genetics or some type of hormonal imbalance.

I have a lot of obesity on one side of my family. They are a very dramatic group, and they do eat and drink in excess. Is it genetic? Is it downstream of their personalities and philosophies about life? Who knows?

There are so many variables that I try and keep from using a persons weight as a weapon in any rhetorical skirmishes in which I'm engaged.  

I mountainbike with a friend who is without question considered obese by medical standards. He could lose 60#s and still be heavy. He kicks a lot of folks butts on the trail. He is strong, real strong, has decades of consistent riding so his body has years of conditioning and muscle memory. I still worry for him though.

I think there's a definite link between emotional state and physical health.  I'm the opposite of you, and probably most, in that when emotionally stressed I don't feel like eating.  I tend to lose weight when things are going very wrong in my life, ie marital problems, divorce, grief, etc.  And I can't really afford to lose any weight.

Emotional issues make it harder to focus on physical health, and vice versa.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people.  -  Catherine Engelbrecht

makattak

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 11:34:48 AM »
I read the article, and it's pretty short sighted.

There are a lot of fat people in this country. I know, as a lot of them are in my family.

I don't hate them for being fat. I'm honestly concerned about their health- my sister who is a couple inches shorter than me outweighs me by at least 100 lbs, and I'm not a waif.

She has both genetic issues and a physical problem that encourages weight gain, but in addition to those she has terrible habits and a terrible job.

To claim "weight stigma" is a problem, I note that even the article tries to say with authority that the stigma effects are over and above the effects of being overweight and links to an article as proof. Clicking through to the article (not a "study" as the original article implies) you find an OPINION piece with a lot of "may" and "has potential to" wording.

I understand it sucks to be treated differently because of how you look. I'm also aware that people can be overly worried about their weight. My under 100lb wife is very concerned about her weight. I am thankful she is concerned about herself, but I also try to ensure she is being healthy.

If you don't want to see the doctor because he keeps talking about how you need to lose weight, because it's his job to look out for your health, either do something about the concerns he has for your health or just accept that point is one he's always going to bring up.

If you go to the mechanic and say that you need an oil change and your muffler is falling off, he's going to mention it. If you choose not to take his advice and fix it, he's going to mention the muffler AGAIN the next time you see it. That's his job.

Now, there are undoubtedly people who can be healthy while they are classified as "overweight" or "obese". Seriously muscular guys are classified as "obese" by BMI.

That's not an indication that obese people can be just as healthy as other people, but that BMI is a pretty terrible way to measure health.

Personally? I could probably stand to lose about 10 lbs. I haven't weighed myself lately, but as my wedding ring is getting really loose, I'm fairly certain I've been replacing fat with muscle, so that while I might weigh only a little less than when I got married, I'm much leaner.

But it's not easy, and it takes effort and commitment. Claiming that fat people1 AREN'T suffering from a lack of commitment and diligence is insane and the whole "body positivity" crap is simply encouraging people to find excuses for their problems.

On the other hand, once the socialists finally get control in this country, all the obese people will be prepared for the coming famine and starvation.

Final thought:



This was a "circus freak" fat man. At 6'2" they claimed he was 44 stone. (616lbs.)

First, having seen people at 600+ lbs, he's clearly not that heavy and the circus was likely padding the stats. SECONDLY, how many people have you seen that look like this guy, the circus freak from 100 years ago?

Now, clearly he (and the other circus fat men) would still qualify as fat today, but I see people riding the motorized shopping carts at Walmart or Kroger every day2 who are comparable or worse.

I would suggest that we don't have ENOUGH weight stigma in our culture, not too much.

1: in this I'm not talking about people who are just a little overweight. People like my sister who are at least 100 lbs overweight are not simply suffering from having lost the genetic lottery. It takes choices and behaviour to get to that point.

2: well, every day that I go to those places, which is, at best, 2-4 times a month, but I ASSUME you can find examples every day.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Brad Johnson

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 11:46:01 AM »
I see body positivity and obesity as two separate issues. You can be proud of who you are and not go around ashamed of your appearance while still being concerned for what obesity does to your health. I'm well aware I'm in the minority in my views in this regard. Society has decided the issues are indivisible thus you can't express concern for someone's weight-related health concerns without being labeled an "obese-ist".

Feelings don't trump biology. It's called morbid obesity for a very real reason. Using "positive self-image" to excuse it is, at best, delusional. At worst, fatal. Unfortunately, society's general lack of health-related self awareness, conflation of physical and mental health issues without qualifiers or context, and trend towards feelings over facts has resulted in an entire generation of people who promote the idea of "body positivity" as a personal excuse for all manner of self-destructive behavior.

*edit to add*

Very much agree with Fifth and Mak's comments below about encouraging positive behaviors and only using negative reinforcement on a very selective basis. Having been on the receiving end of non-stop negative reinforcement that was basically shaming for shaming's sake, I can tell you first hand how counter-productive it is. I've always been on the heavy side and my mother's approach was to shame me for it as much as possible, usually publicly. No balance of negative and positive, just straight up non-stop public embarrassment. All it did was create and foster intense resentment, parts of which I carry with me to this day. It took me returning the "favor" as an adult, only thicker, more often, and even more publicly, to get her to stop. She came by the behavior via her mother, who died when I was 12. Most of my memories of her are of a bitter, frowning, grouchy perfectionist who was never satisfied with anything. My father describes her as someone who "... never missed an opportunity to tune on you."

Brad
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 02:09:57 PM by Brad Johnson »
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fifth_column

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 12:44:19 PM »
I would suggest that we don't have ENOUGH weight stigma in our culture, not too much.

1: in this I'm not talking about people who are just a little overweight. People like my sister who are at least 100 lbs overweight are not simply suffering from having lost the genetic lottery. It takes choices and behaviour to get to that point.


I never seem to have the time to fully express my thoughts on these topics.  I'd enjoy discussing many of the great points being made and I only have time for a couple.

Anyway, poor physical health does take choices and behavior, as does improving your health.  Choices and behaviors are heavily influenced by one's emotional state.  Usually, an improvement in one has a positive impact on the other and can create a "virtuous cycle" while degradation of one tends to cause a "vicious cycle."  I'd be willing to bet emotional state has a bigger affect than genetics, which doesn't discount genetics.  It's possible to encourage healthy emotional and physical choices without stigma though.  Depression and obesity are often components of a vicious cycle.  Making one ashamed of being depressed will not help them to be less depressed.  Don't get me wrong, coddling one who is depressed or pretending obesity doesn't exist and isn't dangerous also doesn't help.  I just think it's more difficult to make positive changes with negative motivations than with positive ones.
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makattak

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2020, 12:53:45 PM »
I never seem to have the time to fully express my thoughts on these topics.  I'd enjoy discussing many of the great points being made and I only have time for a couple.

Anyway, poor physical health does take choices and behavior, as does improving your health.  Choices and behaviors are heavily influenced by one's emotional state.  Usually, an improvement in one has a positive impact on the other and can create a "virtuous cycle" while degradation of one tends to cause a "vicious cycle."  I'd be willing to bet emotional state has a bigger affect than genetics, which doesn't discount genetics.  It's possible to encourage healthy emotional and physical choices without stigma though.  Depression and obesity are often components of a vicious cycle.  Making one ashamed of being depressed will not help them to be less depressed.  Don't get me wrong, coddling one who is depressed or pretending obesity doesn't exist and isn't dangerous also doesn't help.  I just think it's more difficult to make positive changes with negative motivations than with positive ones.

I think changes are best encouraged by both positive and negative consequences.

It's not an either/or. It's a both/and.

Note, I don't shame my sister (or anyone else) for being fat or ridicule people because of their weight. I am still very concerned about her and try to encourage healthy habits as much as I can. (not very successfully, but living half a continent away makes such things harder.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2020, 04:33:57 PM »
I think changes are best encouraged by both positive and negative consequences.

It's not an either/or. It's a both/and.

Note, I don't shame my sister (or anyone else) for being fat or ridicule people because of their weight. I am still very concerned about her and try to encourage healthy habits as much as I can. (not very successfully, but living half a continent away makes such things harder.)

You might think you could take a carrot and stick approach to weight loss, but the trouble is, fat people don't like carrots.

(That's a joke.)
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HeroHog

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Re: Stop slut-shaming the obese!
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 01:59:28 PM »
6'1" @ 330lbs, 63 years old, VERY sedentary, Depression? Yes. 24/7 joint & back pain? yes. 24/7 headaches? Yes. Frequent migraines? You bet.

I AM losing weight, SLOWLY. It's hard, I eat what my wife or I make, and if I make it, it will be QUICK and EASY. Food intake is my ONLY of controlling my weight. I'm trying and making a little headway.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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