Calif Suing Trump Over Ghost Guns

[Ben]

Very limited info in the story, so I don't know exactly what they want out of the lawsuit (besides the obvious), but hopefully Trump's people will put the kibosh on it.

https://apnews.com/article/san-francisco-sacramento-us-news-lawsuits-california-7484255afd9d73dceee86a28354dac5e

[MechAg94]

Exactly where do they want the line drawn?  If someone sold a block of steel with instructions and cutting tools on how to turn it into a pistol, would that still be a ghost gun?  At most, the ATF might redefine where 80% is for the unfinished part (assuming the law is followed).

[tokugawa]

<I>"Exactly where do they want the line drawn? </I>"     

  It's the ore. And the smelter. and worst of all, THE TOOLS!  What this country needs is comprehensive control. Each drill bit must be registered.

 And not to discourage anyone about the caliber of congress, there are actually members stupid enough to propose registration and licensing of metal working equipment. Mills, lathes, etc. 

[Perd Hapley]

Did anyone else make it to the end of the article?

[French G.]

<I>"Exactly where do they want the line drawn? </I>"     

  It's the ore. And the smelter. and worst of all, THE TOOLS!  What this country needs is comprehensive control. Each drill bit must be registered.

 And not to discourage anyone about the caliber of congress, there are actually members stupid enough to propose registration and licensing of metal working equipment. Mills, lathes, etc. 

Only a little tin-foily but the obvious end is eliminate or re-purpose those with the knowledge.

[Hawkmoon]

Did anyone else make it to the end of the article?

Yes. The end:

““If you can assemble Ikea furniture, you can definitely build a ghost gun,” said Shearer of the Giffords Law Center. “This has opened the biggest loophole you can imagine in our federal and state gun laws.”

I'm pretty certain there's a bit more involved in making an 80 percent receiver into a functional firearm than there is in assembling a piece of Ikea furniture.

[dogmush]

Yes. The end:

I'm pretty certain there's a bit more involved in making an 80 percent receiver into a functional firearm than there is in assembling a piece of Ikea furniture.

Eh....depends on the 80% honestly.  Or zero percent, because they are all wound up about 3d printers too.

[Fly320s]

Exactly where do they want the line drawn?

Eliminate all guns.  Eliminate all ideas of guns. Eliminate all violence. Eliminate all ideas of violence.

[dogmush]

I wanted to expound on my previous point a little bit.

Yes, homemade firearms have gotten a lot easier to make in the last couple years.  The advent of better plastics (and their use in firearms engineering) as well as the proliferation of hobby grade manufacturing equipment (mostly Chinese lathes and mills, along with 3D printers and cheap CNC) have spawned a loose community of people that are really pushing the boundaries on home, cheap gunsmithing.  (It's not a group really, more of an idea    )  Yes, absolutely, criminals are using these kits to get "around" US (and CA) gun control laws.  And that's kind of the point.  CA or the ATF can make it harder for folks to build these legally by requiring FFL checks on a slightly less machined hunk, or making us put serial numbers on them, or whatever else they come up with.  (CA's next step is probably trying to regulate barrels and bolts) but the criminals aren't going to care.  And the kits are a market driven intermediate step.  A step between "you must buy a complete gun to get one that works" and "You can build a complete working gun easily at home".  The first steps away from kits have already been made, both here and overseas, so really the AG is about 18 months* behind where he thinks he is right now.

Gun Control, as CA wishes it, is dead.  It has become technically impossible to keep someone that wants a semi-auto firearm from building one easily.  They just haven't figured it out yet.  Australia is realizing it this summer, and low key freaking out.  I've also seen some folks out of China making noises about realizing what can be done now.

Additionally, CA isn't doing them or the ATF any favors by dragging the definition of "firearm receiver" into court.

Firearm frame or receiver. That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.

Would anyone like to tell me which part of an AR houses the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism?  Or which part of a Glock?  Or 1911? Or MAC-10?


FWIW the "easiest" ghost gun kit I am currently aware of is the various Glock 80% kits (Polymer80 is the most common).  Those can legitimately be completed with a cordless drill and a sharp hobby knife in an hour or so.  Easier than some Ikea stuff.


*Maybe farther behind actually, as folks are already beta testing ammo with 3D printed cases and homemade smokeless powder.  So we will get them on the next step as well.

[AJ Dual]

Would anyone like to tell me which part of an AR houses the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism?  Or which part of a Glock?  Or 1911? Or MAC-10?

There have been several cases where the Judge dismissed the charges, or the ATF and US Prosecutor dropped the case and ran screaming because of just that.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/design-ar-15-derail-charges-tied-popular-rifle-68252403

[dogmush]

There have been several cases where the Judge dismissed the charges, or the ATF and US Prosecutor dropped the case and ran screaming because of just that.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/design-ar-15-derail-charges-tied-popular-rifle-68252403

I know.  Just pointing out that it's not just the AR.  Much of current US Gun Control is built on a wink and a nod done in last century and the presumption that "only Criminals will break laws".  Well funded 2A lawyers combined with a US that is just in general less willing to presume the .gov is right probably means they don't want to run too many of these obscure questions through the courts.

[DittoHead]

FWIW the "easiest" ghost gun kit I am currently aware of is the various Glock 80% kits (Polymer80 is the most common).  Those can legitimately be completed with a cordless drill and a sharp hobby knife in an hour or so.  Easier than some Ikea stuff.

Yep. Ikea includes the little hex key you need to assemble, but it's about the same difficulty level. I suppose Polymer80 similarly provides the drill bits.
I was never interested in Glocks but building one myself seemed like an interesting project and I came away impressed by how simple they are.

[just Warren]

I've hurt myself worse assembling Ikea stuff than I ever have handling firearms.

[MillCreek]

Yes. The end:

I'm pretty certain there's a bit more involved in making an 80 percent receiver into a functional firearm than there is in assembling a piece of Ikea furniture.

The day that I can buy a gun kit that is assembled with an Allen wrench, like Ikea furniture, I will buy a pallet load.

[Perd Hapley]

I was never interested in Glocks but building one myself seemed like an interesting project and I came away impressed by how simple they are.

That's exactly how I am about ARs.

[Pb]

So, is an iron pipe and 80% shotgun?  

It's a lot easier to make than completing an 80& ar15 receiver.