Author Topic: ATF Rules Q’s Honey Badger Pistol is a Short Barrel Rifle, Issues Cease and Desi  (Read 3765 times)

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,847
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
Interesting.  I wonder what about the "proprietary brace" triggered this.

It's only a matter of time till the whole NFA is dragged into court.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,743
  • I'm an Extremist!
Hopefully some good firearms lawyers will step up for the pro bono work when the first individual that owns one of these but doesn't know about the new rules gets popped. Not everybody sends in their registration info or stays on top of what's happening with guns.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,948
Probably because the arm brace/buttstock thing telescopes.  Most of the AR pistol arm braces don't telescope.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Probably because the arm brace/buttstock thing telescopes.  Most of the AR pistol arm braces don't telescope.

The last 2 AR pistols I shot had telescopic braces from factory. It was just like shooting a 9" AR rifle.

One was a Springfield and I think the other was a Ruger.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,948
The last 2 AR pistols I shot had telescopic braces from factory. It was just like shooting a 9" AR rifle.

One was a Springfield and I think the other was a Ruger.

I don't go around looking for ATF tech dept letters for AR pistols, but the ones I have come across in the past were all for simple arm braces that had no telescope feature.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Yeah, I've looked at the whole "brace" thing with a lot of askance...

What has really shocked me about the whole issue is that ATF didn't come down on them from the get go. I seem to recall that ATF did issue an order banning them, but then reversed that some time later.

But yeah, I'm not going to spend my money on a "pistol" with a "brace."
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
I have a tech later for a telescoping SPA3 and a telescoping SB PDW somewhere in my gunsafe.  The ATF issued them before SigBrace started selling them.


This could get interesting.  There are a LOT of praced pistols out there now, if the ATF wants to arbitrarily start outlawing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars of personal property, I could seee a lawsuit.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,743
  • I'm an Extremist!

This could get interesting.  There are a LOT of praced pistols out there now, if the ATF wants to arbitrarily start outlawing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars of personal property, I could seee a lawsuit.

My Sig Canebrake is braced. I'm not crazy about the brace and was looking at paying the *expletive deleted*ing $200 to swap the brace for a very slightly differently shaped piece of plastic, but maybe I'll wait for the lawsuit.  =D
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MikeB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 924
I just bought a Springfield Saint Victor AR Pistol that has a telescoping SB Tactical Brave from factory and transferred as a pistol. It is not the same exact brace as on those Q Firearms though.

Unfortunately it was also just lost in a tragic canoe accident.  =D

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Yeah, I had some telescoping braces.  I had them in the back of my truck.  I had to swerve to avoid a dog while crossing a bridge and they were lost over the side.   :-X
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Quote
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. -  Ayn Rand
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Military Arms Channel posted today that this is definitely anti-gun lawyers in the ATF trying to throw out an October surprise to undermine Trump.  We will see what the aftermath is.
https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,948
Military Arms Channel posted today that this is definitely anti-gun lawyers in the ATF trying to throw out an October surprise to undermine Trump.  We will see what the aftermath is.
https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/



It DID come from the Boston field office.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,847
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Quote
The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms has issued a 60-day stay of their cease and desist order against Q, LLC regarding production of the Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical stabilizing brace.

The letter says the 60-day stay is to allow the Department of Justice to assess the applicability of National Firearms Act regulations to the Q’s Honey Badger pistol. Some will see this as a positive development. Maybe the regulatory giant is having second thoughts and the suspension gives them time to reassess.

A more cynical view would be the ATF has chosen to punt the decision until after the election to see which way the political winds are blowing when the 60 days are up in December.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-atf-issues-60-day-suspension-of-honey-badger-cease-and-desist-order/
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

bedlamite

  • Hold my beer and watch this!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,769
  • Ack! PLBTTPHBT!
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,847
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
So they want to wait until after the election ...

yep
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes


MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
The cynical expectation is probably correct.
Maybe so, but it was also probably the easiest bureaucratic way to halt the the original order.  Not near enough though.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Did you see the way the BATFEio measured the length of pull?  Looks like they tried to measure it in the longest way possible.

If Q wanted, they could make a slight change to the length of pull of the brace and then the BATFEio would leave them alone.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

kgbsquirrel

  • APS Photoshop God
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,466
  • Bill, slayer of threads.
Did you see the way the BATFEio measured the length of pull?  Looks like they tried to measure it in the longest way possible.

If Q wanted, they could make a slight change to the length of pull of the brace and then the BATFEio would leave them alone.

The eternal optimist.

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,847
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Quote
Q, LLC is the only company to go public that the ATF sent it a cease and desist letter over a firearm with a pistol brace. Multiple sources have confirmed that the ATF has served additional companies with similar cease and desist letters. The ATF believes that certain manufactures have pushed past the legal boundaries of what is considered a pistol brace.

Leaks Show Multiple Companies Targeted Over Pistol Braces & History of ATF Hostility
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/leaks-show-multiple-companies-targeted-over-pistol-braces-history-of-atf-hostility/#axzz6bQw7NGG4

ATF Still Coming For Pistol Braces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKl3FdlGHjs
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

kgbsquirrel

  • APS Photoshop God
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,466
  • Bill, slayer of threads.
Well past time to start deleting alphabet agencies.

230RN

  • It's like swimming to shore in an ebb tide.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,826
  • Pushing back. Help me out, here...
Kind of "shoulder-of-the-road," but when I had my M1917 Colt with a lanyard loop, I found a properly adjusted lanyard, with the gun pulled tight while aiming, was a distinct aid to accuracy... or at least steadiness.

Over the years I've several times wanted to mount some kind of lanyard loop to some of my handguns.

I wonder if the ATF would consider the lanyard as "collapsable" if it is just hanging off your gun.

I'm a little more than half serious about that last remark.

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Kind of "shoulder-of-the-road," but when I had my M1917 Colt with a lanyard loop, I found a properly adjusted lanyard, with the gun pulled tight while aiming, was a distinct aid to accuracy... or at least steadiness.

Over the years I've several times wanted to mount some kind of lanyard loop to some of my handguns.

I wonder if the ATF would consider the lanyard as "collapsable" if it is just hanging off your gun.

I'm a little more than half serious about that last remark.

A sling has the same effect as a lanyard and the BATFEio dosn't classify those as stocks, yet.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?