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Author Topic: ATF Rules Qs Honey Badger Pistol is a Short Barrel Rifle, Issues Cease and Desi  (Read 715 times)
WLJ
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« on: October 06, 2020, 12:47:12 PM »

The letter
https://mcusercontent.com/557cc802f23161a8ffe100a66/files/dd6aa903-36c2-4d14-9de5-91aa62215cd2/Q_LLC_6_02_02814_Cease_Desist_Letter.pdf

Reading it most pistol braces may be going the way of the bump stock


ATF Rules Qs Honey Badger Pistol is a Short Barrel Rifle, Issues Cease and Desist Letter
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-rules-qs-honey-badge-is-a-short-barrel-rifle-issues-cease-and-desist-letter/
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dogmush
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2020, 12:54:24 PM »

Interesting.  I wonder what about the "proprietary brace" triggered this.

It's only a matter of time till the whole NFA is dragged into court.
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Ben
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2020, 01:01:42 PM »

Hopefully some good firearms lawyers will step up for the pro bono work when the first individual that owns one of these but doesn't know about the new rules gets popped. Not everybody sends in their registration info or stays on top of what's happening with guns.
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AZRedhawk44
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2020, 01:14:28 PM »

Probably because the arm brace/buttstock thing telescopes.  Most of the AR pistol arm braces don't telescope.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2020, 01:18:35 PM »

Probably because the arm brace/buttstock thing telescopes.  Most of the AR pistol arm braces don't telescope.

The last 2 AR pistols I shot had telescopic braces from factory. It was just like shooting a 9" AR rifle.

One was a Springfield and I think the other was a Ruger.
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AZRedhawk44
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2020, 01:19:53 PM »

The last 2 AR pistols I shot had telescopic braces from factory. It was just like shooting a 9" AR rifle.

One was a Springfield and I think the other was a Ruger.

I don't go around looking for ATF tech dept letters for AR pistols, but the ones I have come across in the past were all for simple arm braces that had no telescope feature.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2020, 01:25:07 PM »

Yeah, I've looked at the whole "brace" thing with a lot of askance...

What has really shocked me about the whole issue is that ATF didn't come down on them from the get go. I seem to recall that ATF did issue an order banning them, but then reversed that some time later.

But yeah, I'm not going to spend my money on a "pistol" with a "brace."
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dogmush
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2020, 01:27:30 PM »

I have a tech later for a telescoping SPA3 and a telescoping SB PDW somewhere in my gunsafe.  The ATF issued them before SigBrace started selling them.


This could get interesting.  There are a LOT of praced pistols out there now, if the ATF wants to arbitrarily start outlawing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars of personal property, I could seee a lawsuit.
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Ben
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2020, 01:33:41 PM »


This could get interesting.  There are a LOT of praced pistols out there now, if the ATF wants to arbitrarily start outlawing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars of personal property, I could seee a lawsuit.

My Sig Canebrake is braced. I'm not crazy about the brace and was looking at paying the *expletive deleted*ing $200 to swap the brace for a very slightly differently shaped piece of plastic, but maybe I'll wait for the lawsuit.  grin
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MikeB
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2020, 02:15:15 PM »

I just bought a Springfield Saint Victor AR Pistol that has a telescoping SB Tactical Brave from factory and transferred as a pistol. It is not the same exact brace as on those Q Firearms though.

Unfortunately it was also just lost in a tragic canoe accident.  grin
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MechAg94
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2020, 02:17:13 PM »

Yeah, I had some telescoping braces.  I had them in the back of my truck.  I had to swerve to avoid a dog while crossing a bridge and they were lost over the side.   Lips Sealed
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2020, 04:50:26 PM »

Quote
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. -  Ayn Rand
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2020, 04:25:03 PM »

Military Arms Channel posted today that this is definitely anti-gun lawyers in the ATF trying to throw out an October surprise to undermine Trump.  We will see what the aftermath is.
https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/

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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2020, 04:32:45 PM »

Military Arms Channel posted today that this is definitely anti-gun lawyers in the ATF trying to throw out an October surprise to undermine Trump.  We will see what the aftermath is.
https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/



It DID come from the Boston field office.
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WLJ
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2020, 04:46:41 PM »

Quote
The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms has issued a 60-day stay of their cease and desist order against Q, LLC regarding production of the Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical stabilizing brace.

The letter says the 60-day stay is to allow the Department of Justice to assess the applicability of National Firearms Act regulations to the Qs Honey Badger pistol. Some will see this as a positive development. Maybe the regulatory giant is having second thoughts and the suspension gives them time to reassess.

A more cynical view would be the ATF has chosen to punt the decision until after the election to see which way the political winds are blowing when the 60 days are up in December.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-atf-issues-60-day-suspension-of-honey-badger-cease-and-desist-order/
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 05:17:32 PM »


So they want to wait until after the election ...
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 05:18:41 PM »

So they want to wait until after the election ...

yep
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2020, 06:09:29 PM »


The cynical expectation is probably correct.
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MechAg94
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 06:31:46 PM »

The cynical expectation is probably correct.
Maybe so, but it was also probably the easiest bureaucratic way to halt the the original order.  Not near enough though.
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 03:59:09 AM »

Did you see the way the BATFEio measured the length of pull?  Looks like they tried to measure it in the longest way possible.

If Q wanted, they could make a slight change to the length of pull of the brace and then the BATFEio would leave them alone.
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2020, 05:54:16 AM »

Did you see the way the BATFEio measured the length of pull?  Looks like they tried to measure it in the longest way possible.

If Q wanted, they could make a slight change to the length of pull of the brace and then the BATFEio would leave them alone.

The eternal optimist.
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2020, 01:09:13 PM »

Quote
Q, LLC is the only company to go public that the ATF sent it a cease and desist letter over a firearm with a pistol brace. Multiple sources have confirmed that the ATF has served additional companies with similar cease and desist letters. The ATF believes that certain manufactures have pushed past the legal boundaries of what is considered a pistol brace.

Leaks Show Multiple Companies Targeted Over Pistol Braces & History of ATF Hostility
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/leaks-show-multiple-companies-targeted-over-pistol-braces-history-of-atf-hostility/#axzz6bQw7NGG4

ATF Still Coming For Pistol Braces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKl3FdlGHjs
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kgbsquirrel
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2020, 11:33:01 PM »

Well past time to start deleting alphabet agencies.
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230RN
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2020, 05:19:58 PM »

Kind of "shoulder-of-the-road," but when I had my M1917 Colt with a lanyard loop, I found a properly adjusted lanyard, with the gun pulled tight while aiming, was a distinct aid to accuracy... or at least steadiness.

Over the years I've several times wanted to mount some kind of lanyard loop to some of my handguns.

I wonder if the ATF would consider the lanyard as "collapsable" if it is just hanging off your gun.

I'm a little more than half serious about that last remark.
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Fly320s
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2020, 04:13:28 AM »

Kind of "shoulder-of-the-road," but when I had my M1917 Colt with a lanyard loop, I found a properly adjusted lanyard, with the gun pulled tight while aiming, was a distinct aid to accuracy... or at least steadiness.

Over the years I've several times wanted to mount some kind of lanyard loop to some of my handguns.

I wonder if the ATF would consider the lanyard as "collapsable" if it is just hanging off your gun.

I'm a little more than half serious about that last remark.

A sling has the same effect as a lanyard and the BATFEio dosn't classify those as stocks, yet.
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