Armed Polite Society
October 23, 2020, 01:42:32 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: R.I.P. Scout26
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
Author Topic: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.  (Read 1592 times)
dogmush
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,802


« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2020, 04:46:22 AM »

Interesting twitter thread on this:  https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315496256580448256

Despite my previous post I tend to agree that this was not a justified shooting, I think it's always worth while to make sure we are applying our standards evenly to others as well as ourselves.


The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol.  You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted.  I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 05:10:50 AM by dogmush » Report to moderator   Logged
Ben
Administrator
Senior Member
*****
Posts: 32,565



« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2020, 04:50:55 AM »

I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.

That's an interesting theory.  I wonder if the "security guard" thought he had the training to do that? Maybe he saw videos of that news security guard in Portland (who DID have the training) who took the ARs from the commies, and figured, "I can do that".
Report to moderator   Logged

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."
Boomhauer
Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,538



« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2020, 05:38:25 AM »

Unpopular opinion:

Several people on here have said, and I haven't unilaterally disagreed with, variations on the theme of "If I get pepper-sprayed and/or maced I assume they are trying to take my gun and use it" or "If that cop get's hit with his own mace he's justified in shooting because the criminal could take his gun".

If (IF mind you, I've not seen definitive video) dead guy deployed bear spray on the shooter and his group first, a reasonable case could be made that dead guy started an incapacitation attack and the shooter was afeared for his personal safety.  That's the tack I would take if I was his lawyer, anyway.

While I agree with you in normal circumstances since the shooter is allied with the “Beaning someone with a skateboard or a bike lock isn’t assault and burning down homes and businesses is peaceful protesting” movement I don’t care about any claim he has to self defense.

The shooter is a member of the enemy, the left treats us all as sworn enemies especially in just about any self defense case. Time to start treating them like they treat us.
Report to moderator   Logged

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!
Ron
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,156


like a tree planted by rivers of water


« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2020, 05:47:34 AM »

While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.

The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.

I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.

I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.
Report to moderator   Logged

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
Pb
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 2,540


« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2020, 06:26:22 AM »

I agree with Ron.  Anyone who attends one of these "protests" is crazy.

The advice I heard seems apt:

Avoid Stupid People in Stupid Places Doing Stupid Things

Report to moderator   Logged
Hawkmoon
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 22,394



« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2020, 06:34:03 AM »

I still haven't seen enough clear evidence to make a decision on the shooting itself. One thing, however, stands out not in favor of the "security guard". If your job is to protect a news crew, that means 100% of your time is spent scanning the area and keeping your mouth shut, remaining undistracted. What does appear to be in evidence is that this "security guard" decided to get into a political argument with a protestor instead of doing his job.

Where did you see any indication of that?

The shot was only a couple/few seconds after the victim had walked away from the loudmouth who was featured in the video most of us have seen. There really wasn't time for much of a verbal exchange between the victim and the shooter. Extrapolating from what little we have seen, my guess was that the shooter made a grab for the victim's pepper spray, the victim rebuffed the grab by slapping the shooter, to which the shooter responded by opening fire.
Report to moderator   Logged
Hawkmoon
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 22,394



« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2020, 06:40:42 AM »

The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol.  You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted.  I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.

You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.
Report to moderator   Logged
dogmush
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,802


« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2020, 06:58:40 AM »

You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.

Go here:  https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315502498371694592/photo/2

After you see it, it's pretty obvious in the pic cordex posted. 

There was a pretty nice closeup of the gun being recovered from the victim by Law enforcement, but that tweet has been removed.  Plack polymer framed auto with a stainless slide and thumb safety.  Safety still on.
Report to moderator   Logged
bedlamite
Hold my beer and watch this!
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,072

Ack! PLBTTPHBT!


« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2020, 07:10:29 AM »

Report to moderator   Logged

Is defenestration possible through the overton window?
dogmush
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,802


« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2020, 07:17:53 AM »

AAR note, notwithstanding legalities:  If you carry a concealed weapon for self defense, don't make a habit of carrying other *expletive deleted*it in your shooting hand.
Report to moderator   Logged
Phyphor
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 2,258


« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2020, 09:02:22 AM »

While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.

The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.

I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.

I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.

Yup.  You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.

You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots.  They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.
Report to moderator   Logged

"You know what's messed-up about taxes?
You don't even pay taxes. They take tax.
You get your check, money gone.
That ain't a payment, that's a jack." - Chris Rock "Bigger and Blacker"
He slapped his rifle. "This is one of the best arguments for peace there is. Nobody wants to shoot if somebody is going to shoot back. " Callaghen, Callaghen, Louis La'mour
bedlamite
Hold my beer and watch this!
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,072

Ack! PLBTTPHBT!


« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2020, 09:07:19 AM »


You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

That's pretty much the attitude of my entire neighborhood.
Report to moderator   Logged

Is defenestration possible through the overton window?
Ben
Administrator
Senior Member
*****
Posts: 32,565



« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2020, 09:08:58 AM »

Yup.  You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.

You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots.  They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.

I agree with this and what Ron said. My only note would be that in this case, AFAIK, the victim was protesting (or more precisely at a pro-LE rally), not counter-protesting.

I would, in a sane world, just say that each side should let the other do their thing and not show up to counter-protest. However, "their thing" in the case of antifa and BLM has been destruction, so while I would discourage counter-protesting them, I would encourage defense of life and property if they come anywhere near you.
Report to moderator   Logged

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."
just Warren
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 4,835


My DJ name is Heavy Cream.


« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2020, 09:24:51 AM »

Shooter's name cannot be found in security guard database.

They also admitted that the shooter was a contractor for them. I imagine that they have left themselves open to a massive lawsuit at the very least and maybe even criminal charges. Though I'll need a lawyer to pop in with their thoughts on the latter.

Looks they can be charged criminally.
Report to moderator   Logged

Member in Good Standing of the Spontaneous Order of the Invisible Hand.
AZRedhawk44
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,599



« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2020, 10:24:34 AM »

Vote Harder.
Report to moderator   Logged

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!
MechAg94
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 25,344


« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2020, 10:54:47 AM »

Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do. 
Report to moderator   Logged

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge
AZRedhawk44
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 12,599



« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2020, 11:08:37 AM »

Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do. 

I can't think of a legitimate legal situation for a private person to disarm another private person with a holstered and nonthreatening weapon.  Obviously there's a self defense scuffle with a presented weapon as justifiable, but just a holstered one, it's awfully sketchy.
Report to moderator   Logged

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!
RocketMan
Mad Rocket Scientist
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 10,392


Semper Fidelis


« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2020, 12:05:46 PM »

Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do.

It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.
Report to moderator   Logged

“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
gunsmith
If an alcoholic bites you, you become one.
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 7,274


an aurora was seen on Uranus.


« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2020, 04:51:17 PM »

It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.

 I bet that is all there is to it.
 Dammed shame for the dead guy.

  Or it could be getting to be "tit for tat"
The
Quote
right
got that guy awhile ago, NM I think, and of course the hero of Kenosha...
Now it's
Quote
""their""
turn?
 
  I expect this not be the end of it
Report to moderator   Logged

Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populous like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".

Out where there are miles and miles of miles and miles.
Chester32141
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 621


« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2020, 06:28:38 PM »

This Thread Reader has some clear photos ...  Popcorn

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1315492573390147584.html
Report to moderator   Logged

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter...... "

Photos
CBs Hawg Sauce

Ron
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,156


like a tree planted by rivers of water


« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2020, 05:07:56 AM »

Did someone say the victim was a legit patched 1%'r?

Antifa/BLM couldn't have chosen to piss off a better group IMHO.

 Popcorn
Report to moderator   Logged

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
cordex
Administrator
Senior Member
*****
Posts: 5,317


« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2020, 05:23:40 AM »

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.

The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera.  Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up."  The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.

Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.
Report to moderator   Logged
Ron
friends
Senior Member
***
Posts: 8,156


like a tree planted by rivers of water


« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2020, 05:29:11 AM »

American politics is like the TV shows The Sopranos or The Shield.

There are no good guys, just competing bad guys.
Report to moderator   Logged

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
RocketMan
Mad Rocket Scientist
friend
Senior Member
***
Posts: 10,392


Semper Fidelis


« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2020, 05:33:02 AM »

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.

The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera.  Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up."  The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.

Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.

Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News.  Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.
The city DA asking for a 72 hour extension before making a decision to file charges against the shooter is suspicious to me, as well.  It wouldn't surprise me if he gets off.  It also makes me wonder if there was Soros money behind her election.
Report to moderator   Logged

“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.
Ben
Administrator
Senior Member
*****
Posts: 32,565



« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2020, 05:46:20 AM »

Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News.  Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.


This one is different and worth watching just to get data from all sides. I can't be sure, but it appears the slide on the pistol is on its way back in that still image, which would indicate the pepper spray and shot went off at roughly the same time.
Report to moderator   Logged

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!