Author Topic: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.  (Read 7772 times)

dogmush

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2020, 08:46:22 AM »
Interesting twitter thread on this:  https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315496256580448256

Despite my previous post I tend to agree that this was not a justified shooting, I think it's always worth while to make sure we are applying our standards evenly to others as well as ourselves.


The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol.  You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted.  I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 09:10:50 AM by dogmush »

Ben

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2020, 08:50:55 AM »
I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.

That's an interesting theory.  I wonder if the "security guard" thought he had the training to do that? Maybe he saw videos of that news security guard in Portland (who DID have the training) who took the ARs from the commies, and figured, "I can do that".
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Boomhauer

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2020, 09:38:25 AM »
Unpopular opinion:

Several people on here have said, and I haven't unilaterally disagreed with, variations on the theme of "If I get pepper-sprayed and/or maced I assume they are trying to take my gun and use it" or "If that cop get's hit with his own mace he's justified in shooting because the criminal could take his gun".

If (IF mind you, I've not seen definitive video) dead guy deployed bear spray on the shooter and his group first, a reasonable case could be made that dead guy started an incapacitation attack and the shooter was afeared for his personal safety.  That's the tack I would take if I was his lawyer, anyway.

While I agree with you in normal circumstances since the shooter is allied with the “Beaning someone with a skateboard or a bike lock isn’t assault and burning down homes and businesses is peaceful protesting” movement I don’t care about any claim he has to self defense.

The shooter is a member of the enemy, the left treats us all as sworn enemies especially in just about any self defense case. Time to start treating them like they treat us.
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Ron

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2020, 09:47:34 AM »
While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.

The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.

I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.

I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.
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Pb

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2020, 10:26:22 AM »
I agree with Ron.  Anyone who attends one of these "protests" is crazy.

The advice I heard seems apt:

Avoid Stupid People in Stupid Places Doing Stupid Things


Hawkmoon

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2020, 10:34:03 AM »
I still haven't seen enough clear evidence to make a decision on the shooting itself. One thing, however, stands out not in favor of the "security guard". If your job is to protect a news crew, that means 100% of your time is spent scanning the area and keeping your mouth shut, remaining undistracted. What does appear to be in evidence is that this "security guard" decided to get into a political argument with a protestor instead of doing his job.

Where did you see any indication of that?

The shot was only a couple/few seconds after the victim had walked away from the loudmouth who was featured in the video most of us have seen. There really wasn't time for much of a verbal exchange between the victim and the shooter. Extrapolating from what little we have seen, my guess was that the shooter made a grab for the victim's pepper spray, the victim rebuffed the grab by slapping the shooter, to which the shooter responded by opening fire.
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2020, 10:40:42 AM »
The thread I linked above is the first I had seen that mentioned the victim ALSO had a pistol.  You can clearly see it in a shoulder rig in the picture cordex posted.  I tend to agree with the guy on that thread, that the shooter went for the victim's pistol, got pushed back, the victim went less lethal and the shooter went lethal.  Dead guy probably should have went for his gun instead of bear spray.

You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.
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dogmush

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2020, 10:58:40 AM »
You have better eyes than I do -- I don't see a gun. But I did see some reports that two firearms were recovered, so I'll accept that the victim had a gun. However, he was apparently right-handed and he was carrying the pepper spray in his right hand. When confronted by the shooter, the victim went to the pepper spreay rather than for his gun, so he was clearly trying to deescalate and break off when he was shot.

Go here:  https://twitter.com/COsweda/status/1315502498371694592/photo/2

After you see it, it's pretty obvious in the pic cordex posted. 

There was a pretty nice closeup of the gun being recovered from the victim by Law enforcement, but that tweet has been removed.  Plack polymer framed auto with a stainless slide and thumb safety.  Safety still on.

bedlamite

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

dogmush

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2020, 11:17:53 AM »
AAR note, notwithstanding legalities:  If you carry a concealed weapon for self defense, don't make a habit of carrying other *expletive deleted*it in your shooting hand.

Phyphor

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2020, 01:02:22 PM »
While I understand the whole counter protest concept, I'm just not that interested in raising the odds of my being involved in gun play.

The protests often turn violent and descend into riots.

I'm not looking to be a hero, count me out on participating in the public theatrics.

I don't want to shoot anyone. If it comes to that I plan on really meaning it and being in the right.

Yup.  You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.

You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots.  They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.
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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2020, 01:07:19 PM »

You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

That's pretty much the attitude of my entire neighborhood.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
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Ben

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2020, 01:08:58 PM »
Yup.  You can shout all the slogans you want, get into all the fights with the cops you want, that's on you.

You come into my neighborhood and try lighting my house on fire? Well, things might just go a little differently than planned....

Other than that, yeah, it's not worth it to "counter protest" these idiots.  They're beneath our contempt and should only be acknowledged as such.

I agree with this and what Ron said. My only note would be that in this case, AFAIK, the victim was protesting (or more precisely at a pro-LE rally), not counter-protesting.

I would, in a sane world, just say that each side should let the other do their thing and not show up to counter-protest. However, "their thing" in the case of antifa and BLM has been destruction, so while I would discourage counter-protesting them, I would encourage defense of life and property if they come anywhere near you.
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just Warren

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2020, 01:24:51 PM »
Shooter's name cannot be found in security guard database.

They also admitted that the shooter was a contractor for them. I imagine that they have left themselves open to a massive lawsuit at the very least and maybe even criminal charges. Though I'll need a lawyer to pop in with their thoughts on the latter.

Looks they can be charged criminally.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2020, 02:24:34 PM »
Vote Harder.
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MechAg94

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2020, 02:54:47 PM »
Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do. 
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2020, 03:08:37 PM »
Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do. 

I can't think of a legitimate legal situation for a private person to disarm another private person with a holstered and nonthreatening weapon.  Obviously there's a self defense scuffle with a presented weapon as justifiable, but just a holstered one, it's awfully sketchy.
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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2020, 04:05:46 PM »
Was there ever an answer as to why this "security guard" was interacting with the victim at all? 

Someone mentioned he might have been trying to disarm him.  That sounds like something "guards" don't normally do.

It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.
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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2020, 08:51:17 PM »
It could simply be that the faux security guard is just a dumb ass with a misguided notion that he could be a hero.

 I bet that is all there is to it.
 Dammed shame for the dead guy.

  Or it could be getting to be "tit for tat"
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Chester32141

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2020, 10:28:38 PM »
This Thread Reader has some clear photos ...  [popcorn]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1315492573390147584.html
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Ron

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2020, 09:07:56 AM »
Did someone say the victim was a legit patched 1%'r?

Antifa/BLM couldn't have chosen to piss off a better group IMHO.

 [popcorn]
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cordex

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2020, 09:23:40 AM »
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.

The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera.  Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up."  The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.

Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.

Ron

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2020, 09:29:11 AM »
American politics is like the TV shows The Sopranos or The Shield.

There are no good guys, just competing bad guys.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2020, 09:33:02 AM »
https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/unlicensed-security-guard-matthew-dolloff-shooting-probable-cause-statement-video/73-a5a0a0e9-11b1-4d7d-972d-7b2a25fd1173
This video shows a little more of the confrontation from the point of view right beside the shooter.

The deceased saw that there were people taking pictures, aggressively approached the photographer saying: "This is not the place for a camera.  Get the cameras out of here or I'm going to f*** you up."  The shooter stepped in to stop him and that takes it up to the point of the slap.

Not saying the dead guy deserved to be shot, but it does appear he was attempting to intimidate the journalists that the shooter was protecting.

Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News.  Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.
The city DA asking for a 72 hour extension before making a decision to file charges against the shooter is suspicious to me, as well.  It wouldn't surprise me if he gets off.  It also makes me wonder if there was Soros money behind her election.
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Re: Anitfa murders another Trump supporter.
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2020, 09:46:20 AM »
Some of this article appears to be ass covering on the part of 9News.  Admittedly, I didn't watch any of the video as I've seen it enough times to be sickened by it.


This one is different and worth watching just to get data from all sides. I can't be sure, but it appears the slide on the pistol is on its way back in that still image, which would indicate the pepper spray and shot went off at roughly the same time.
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