ATAB (well, maybe not all but these 650 are...)

[MikeB]

Mistaken post.

[charby]

My problem is more to do with bad teachers making a lot of money. And often the bad ones making the most. At least when I was in school often the worst teachers were those who had been there for a very long time making the maximum.

That is a management problem not documenting the progressive failures of the bad teachers when they are not meeting annual appraisal goals and objectives. Document properly and the union has no leg to stand on defending an employee.

I also have a problem with public employee unions. They shouldn’t be allowed to go on strike every other year to force raises.

Part of that is the problem of having elected people as the ultimate boss (i.e. governor, state legislators and senators) and they consistently don't act upon or fail to negotiate contract demands (either refuse demands or give into all demands). Also many places it is illegal for public employees to go on strike, for example in Iowa. Strike=arrested and jail.

[MikeB]

That is a management problem not documenting the progressive failures of the bad teachers when they are not meeting annual appraisal goals and objectives. Document properly and the union has no leg to stand on defending an employee.

In PA, I believe the administrators. Principals for example are also union, either affiliated or part of psea. So they protect each other. Absent abuse of children, indictable criminal acts, etc. it is very difficult to fire teachers here. They don’t have to perform to any metrics. It’s very difficult to get rid of any teachers that have made it through a few years and almost impossible for new teachers to get jobs without knowing someone for an in.

Part of that is the problem of having elected people as the ultimate boss (i.e. governor, state legislators and senators) and they consistently don't act upon or fail to negotiate contract demands (either refuse demands or give into all demands). Also many places it is illegal for public employees to go on strike, for example in Iowa. Strike=arrested and jail.

No such thing here. They strike all the time. There is some local district or other on strike every single year. They are really only accountable to local school boards. Basically the teachers unions spend a fortune electing people that will back them, mostly Democrats, then they are the ones they negotiate with for terms. Then they use strikes as leverage.

Oh and those same school boards determine school/property tax increases.

[charby]

In PA, I believe the administrators. Principals for example are also union, either affiliated or part of psea. So they protect each other. Absent abuse of children, indictable criminal acts, etc. it is very difficult to fire teachers here. They don’t have to perform to any metrics. It’s very difficult to get rid of any teachers that have made it through a few years and almost impossible for new teachers to get jobs without knowing someone for an in.

Here management/administration (many times non faculty aren't either, think cooks/custodians/secretaries) are not allowed to be in unions (not all school districts in Iowa have teacher unions)

No such thing here. They strike all the time. There is some local district or other on strike every single year. They are really only accountable to local school boards. Basically the teachers unions spend a fortune electing people that will back them, mostly Democrats, then they are the ones they negotiate with for terms. Then they use strikes as leverage.

Oh and those same school boards determine school/property tax increases.

For a school board to raise taxes (new levy) it has to be put to a vote by the residents in the district at the next election. Our property taxes are set by a mix of state legislature (max % law), the county auditor w/assessor and state department of revenue.

[MechAg94]

All that just says there is not a real market for teacher labor that involves actual competition for jobs so we don't know what teacher's salaries should be. 

[Big Hairy Bee]

[Perd Hapley]

An awfully juvenile response from a teacher.

[lee n. field]

a load off someone's mind.

[RoadKingLarry]

Common core syllabus?

[bedlamite]

Common core syllabus?

Critical race theory

[Jim147]

2+2=5

[MechAg94]

Probably from a cow rather than a bull anyway. 

[Big Hairy Bee]

An awfully juvenile response from a teacher.

A picture is worth a thousand words dude!

I also find it most appropriate and descriptive.

Most of us work our asses off, especially now.  I am doing 60 plus hours weeks in Arizona which has been at the ass end of educational funding for the last 30 years.  I am in my 31st year and make 60k and that is working summers.

So yeah I take offense to these gross labels with little thought

[Big Hairy Bee]

An awfully juvenile response from a teacher.

and you're cool with the subject title?

[makattak]

and you're cool with the subject title?

If it makes a difference, I think it's exactly as true as the ACAB slogan, but I thought it appropriate to make the same leap to blame all teachers for the actions of a few as it is to blame cops.

It was said satirically, not earnestly.

[MechAg94]

A picture is worth a thousand words dude!

I also find it most appropriate and descriptive.

Most of us work our asses off, especially now.  I am doing 60 plus hours weeks in Arizona which has been at the ass end of educational funding for the last 30 years.  I am in my 31st year and make 60k and that is working summers.

So yeah I take offense to these gross labels with little thought

I am sure everyone had you in mind when they were commenting.      

I was just pointing out teaching is pretty much a govt job.  If it were to all go private sector, the pay scale might change, but it wouldn't be zero.  It might even be higher.  The main change I would predict is less money spent on administration and school campuses/buildings.  

[lee n. field]

You city folk do know what's in that picture, right?  It struck me that quite a few might not have had direct experience with one.

[Ben]

You city folk do know what's in that picture, right?  It struck me that quite a few might not have had direct experience with one.

And some of us have too much experience. They don't call them muck boots for nothing. 

[AZRedhawk44]

A picture is worth a thousand words dude!

I also find it most appropriate and descriptive.

Most of us work our asses off, especially now.  I am doing 60 plus hours weeks in Arizona which has been at the ass end of educational funding for the last 30 years.  I am in my 31st year and make 60k and that is working summers.

So yeah I take offense to these gross labels with little thought

Back when I worked for an AZ school district, I knew several teachers in their 50's that were making upwards of $80k.  Not principals or administrators.  This was around 2004.

And they had summers off.

I know they had summers off because I was classified staff rather than certified, and I worked all summer.  Parking lots are empty, classrooms are empty, often times computer networks are torn down and reconfigured. 

[lee n. field]

Back when I worked for an AZ school district, I knew several teachers in their 50's that were making upwards of $80k.  Not principals or administrators.  This was around 2004.

And they had summers off.

I know they had summers off because I was classified staff rather than certified, and I worked all summer.  Parking lots are empty, classrooms are empty, often times computer networks are torn down and reconfigured. 

yep, summer's the time to get all the maintenance stuff done.  If you have a project, that's when it gets done.  If you have a crew in to recable, that's when.

I don't miss being at the school.  (When, more than once, more than twice, you have teachers abruptly quit in the middle of the school year, you know there's something going on that you're not seeing.)

[Perd Hapley]

and you're cool with the subject title?

Didn't notice, but at least the rest of us can use our words, and a modicum of class.

Plus, what makattak said.

[charby]

 The main change I would predict is less money spent on administration and school campuses/buildings.  

I've noticed that private schools (primary and secondary) are just as bloated with administration and buildings as the public schools.

[dogmush]

Didn't notice, but at least the rest of us can use our words, and a modicum of class.

Plus, what makattak said.

Gonna go with the Bee here.  Calling a forum member a Bastard, and not clearly spelling it out as satire, at least deserves a response.  His pic was as eloquent as a note reading "Nuts!" would have been, and communicated his intent as clearly as words.

Broad brushes in general are a bad idea, and usually impolite.

[makattak]

Gonna go with the Bee here.  Calling a forum member a Bastard, and not clearly spelling it out as satire, at least deserves a response.  His pic was as eloquent as a note reading "Nuts!" would have been, and communicated his intent as clearly as words.

Broad brushes in general are a bad idea, and usually impolite.

As the OP I think he deserved an explanation, and so I gave one. I also thought his post was pretty funny.

While I am passionate about the damage the education system has done and is doing to this country, I'm well aware many, possibly even most teachers aren't the biggest problem.

Additionally, a $60,000 salary after 30 years while working summers is right in line with what I think a teacher should be making. I have no problems with Mr. Bee, specifically, though I do have a problems with a lot of members of his profession.

[RoadKingLarry]

While I am passionate about the damage the education system has done and is doing to this country, I'm well aware many, possibly even most teachers aren't the biggest problem.

The problem with our public education system begins at the top. Starting with the US Department of Education right down to the individual districts. We have districts with far too high of a ratio of administrators to teachers. The classroom teachers cannot discipline the students. Students are not held accountable. Parents blame the teachers when their little *expletive deleted*ing angel won't do the assigned work. The lowest common denominator in the goal. My daughter is currently a teacher in one of the top 3 largest school districts in the state in a large metro district. Her students this year are predominantly "Spanish as a first language" demographic. Last year she was in a school where the primary demographic was "Ebonics as a first language". She was one of only 3 non-black teachers in the school. more than a few attempts to correct improper behavior of a student resulted in her being cursed at by the students. At least 2 parents accused her of racism because she wouldn't give the students a passing grade even though the student totally failed to do the work or turn in assignments. Her Principle and Superintendent did not have her back.
Public education in this country  is a failed experiment that needs to be completely rebooted.