Author Topic: Electricians question  (Read 1114 times)

makattak

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Electricians question
« on: November 28, 2020, 10:12:30 AM »
I have a puzzle. An outlet was working fine last night.

This morning, no power. Find the right breaker and replace the outlet. No joy.

Checked with multimeter: when touching positive and negative, multimeter reads 0.

When touching positive and ground, it reads 140v.

Is this something I can fix?
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Jim147

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 10:16:49 AM »
If the outlet is tied into others it might have lost the nuetral at that connection. That could be a tuff one to find or fairly easy.
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Ron

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2020, 11:02:42 AM »
I agree ^

Check all the outlets on that circuit.
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RocketMan

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2020, 11:09:42 AM »
If the outlets on that circuit are all using backstab connections, one of the neutral connections may have come loose.  I hate backstab connectors as they become unreliable as they age.  I've had to replace many outlets where the backstab connections have failed.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2020, 11:14:35 AM »
If the outlets on that circuit are all using backstab connections, one of the neutral connections may have come loose.  I hate backstab connectors as they become unreliable as they age.  I've had to replace many outlets where the backstab connections have failed.

^^^ This.

In 1979 my then-wife and I bought a condominium. In the first year we lived there we had a LOT of electrical gremlins. The receptacles (outlets) were all backstabbed -- why not, it's faster. That's why they were invented. I went through the entire unit and re-wired every receptacle using the screws, and we never had another problem.
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K Frame

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 11:20:17 AM »
Bad backstab connection is the most likely culprit. Backstabs SUCK.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 12:28:00 PM »
Check every outlet on that circuit for a bad neutral connection.  Start with the bad one and work your way towards the breaker.  If they are backstabs, do yourself a favor and side-wire them to the screws, or replace with new outlets that have a back-insert *clamp* that you tighten with the side screws.  (that might be easier if the wires in the box are short)

Might as well check the hot wires too while you're in there.
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RocketMan

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2020, 04:34:25 PM »
Check every outlet on that circuit for a bad neutral connection.  Start with the bad one and work your way towards the breaker.  If they are backstabs, do yourself a favor and side-wire them to the screws, or replace with new outlets that have a back-insert *clamp* that you tighten with the side screws.  (that might be easier if the wires in the box are short)

Might as well check the hot wires too while you're in there.

Good idea.  Also, be aware that some jurisdictions require that any new outlets installed be of the tamper resistant variety.  This is the case in my county, even though I was wanting to replace like-for-like outlets.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Jim147

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2020, 07:51:43 PM »
What's tamper resistant? A butter knife won't fit in?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2020, 07:53:38 PM »
What's tamper resistant? A butter knife won't fit in?

Correct, but *two*steak knives will if you put them in at the same time (one in the hot side and one in the neutral, the ground doesn't matter)
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RocketMan

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2020, 07:19:40 PM »
What's tamper resistant? A butter knife won't fit in?

Pretty much.  Little kids and idiots won't (theoretically) be able to hurt themselves by shoving small metal objects into the slots.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2020, 08:42:28 PM »
Also, be aware that some jurisdictions require that any new outlets installed be of the tamper resistant variety.  This is the case in my county, even though I was wanting to replace like-for-like outlets.

Probably not just "some" jurisdictions. The requirement was added to the National Electrical Code in 2005. I would be very surprised if there's any jurisdiction in the United States that's still using an edition of the NEC older than 2005.
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makattak

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2020, 09:45:31 PM »
And a new wrinkle:

I put everything back together as I didn't have time/requisite knowledge to deal with the issue. No power after I put it together.

Forgot it wasn't working today and plugged my phone into it. It starts charging.

So the outlet works now. Thanks for all the help to fix it!


(Btw, no backstabs in the outlets. All attached at the side.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Nick1911

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2020, 12:01:54 AM »
And a new wrinkle:

I put everything back together as I didn't have time/requisite knowledge to deal with the issue. No power after I put it together.

Forgot it wasn't working today and plugged my phone into it. It starts charging.

So the outlet works now. Thanks for all the help to fix it!


(Btw, no backstabs in the outlets. All attached at the side.)

Eh, plug a space heater in for a few hours.  If you've got a high resistance connection somewhere, it'll make itself evident.   :laugh:

(Don't actually do this!)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2020, 01:04:51 AM »
I put everything back together as I didn't have time/requisite knowledge to deal with the issue. No power after I put it together.

Forgot it wasn't working today and plugged my phone into it. It starts charging.

So the outlet works now.

That's actually probably not a good thing. There's an intermittent problem with the neural on that circuit. It needs to be repaired, and it's more difficult to diagnose an intermittent fault than it is to diagnose a constant fault.
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makattak

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2020, 09:09:28 AM »
That's actually probably not a good thing. There's an intermittent problem with the neural on that circuit. It needs to be repaired, and it's more difficult to diagnose an intermittent fault than it is to diagnose a constant fault.

I expected this was the case, but all I can do about it now is laugh until we can get an electrician to look at it.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

charby

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2020, 01:22:52 PM »
And a new wrinkle:

I put everything back together as I didn't have time/requisite knowledge to deal with the issue. No power after I put it together.

Forgot it wasn't working today and plugged my phone into it. It starts charging.

So the outlet works now. Thanks for all the help to fix it!


(Btw, no backstabs in the outlets. All attached at the side.)

The outlet isn't switched somewhere is it? Think like a lamp outlet.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2020, 03:12:27 PM »
The outlet isn't switched somewhere is it? Think like a lamp outlet.

Good thought. I hadn't even considered that.

A trick some builders seem to like is to switch half an outlet. It allows plugging in a lamp and controlling it with a switch at the door, while the other receptacle remains hot all the time.
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Jim147

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2020, 03:17:49 PM »
Like garbage disposals. Don't plug it into the wrong one or it tells you quick.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

RocketMan

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Re: Electricians question
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2020, 04:49:32 PM »
Some outlets have removable jumper-like side plates under the screws.  When removed it allows separate wiring to the top and bottom outlets.  Something to look for.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.