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Author Topic: Bullmastiff or Rottweiler?  (Read 5894 times)
Warren
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« on: March 16, 2007, 05:31:18 PM »

We are moving into a home, and want an animal for companionship and protection.

Obviously a dog is called for.

I want a bullmastiff, it is a big intimidating looking animal that is gentle and is not known for attacks on humans. If someone breaks in the bullmastiff can knock the miscreant down and hold him without doing much, if any, injury.

It would save me and my family a lot of legal and emotional problems if the bad guy ends up not decorating my foyer with his entrails.

So a big, trainable, easy going, loving pet that can do the job of protecting us without much of a downside.

My wife and eldest daughter both want a rottie.

The reputation of sudden attacks may be exaggerated and they may be fine animals who can be trained. Still though I worry about that rep. 

Fine Roundtablers..what type would you choose?


 
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 10:22:36 PM »

No dog is going to "knock down and hold" an intruder.....the only useful family gaurd dog will alert to an intrusion so that you can deal with the threat appropriately.......
I've never known of a mean bullmastiff.  Friend in the Marines had two, both were like 150lb puppies.
Rotties, though....not a big fan.  I've known people who've been bit or had mean ones.
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Cromlech
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 10:57:49 PM »

Irish Wolfhound. Cheesy
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bigdaddylongstroke
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 11:41:17 PM »

Ive had a really good experience with pit bulls, but if I had to choose between the 2, I think i would go with the bull mastife there a little tamer than a rot especially around children.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 11:59:46 PM »

Of the two, I'd pick a mastiff. The only problem is, they drool.

A German Shepherd Dog might be a viable alternative. Turbo loyal.
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Stickjockey
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 01:01:32 AM »

Don't know about the Mastiffs, never had one. My family's owned three or four Rotties, though, and every one's been just a big bundle of really territorial love. Ever had a hundred-fifty-plus pound lapdog? shocked grin

That said, I wouldn't recommend one for a house with smaller kids. they are big, and kind of energetic. Also, I wouldn't recommend one without researching the breed first. There are some peculiarities to Rotties that you may or may not be prepared for.

Research both breeds thoroughly, then get the one that fits best.
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 01:33:31 AM »

A couple of years ago someone had an English Bullmastiff at the dogpark where I took Nikky and Ruger.

When we went in I did a double take. I really thought someone had brought a calf to the dog park.

The thing was HUGE!

He was also one of the sweetest dogs I've ever met.

Then there was also the big rottie at the dog park.

I sat down on the bench, he trotted right up, backed up between my legs, tossed his head back on my lap, and said "Pet me please!"
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Calumus
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 03:30:25 AM »

They're both great breeds  but you do need to research either before you jump in. Have you had a big dog before? Bull mastiffs are definatly softer tempered then a properly bred rottie, though either will be a big lapdog with proper training and socialization. A few things to look out for, 1st, never ever buy a dog at a petstore. They come from puppy mills where little to no health testing is done on the parents. Sure every dog you see in one will have an AKC registration or be registered with someone else but that means nothing. You can register your car with out it actually running. All that piece of paper means is that the registry has gotten its cash from the breeder. You're actually looking at the right time of year, dog show season is starting back up. You need to get out to a couple and talk to people with either breed. Ask questions. Obviously if they're at a show they're going to be busy from time to time but if you see them there relaxing walk right up and introduce yourself. Exhibitors know that's part of the game and are more then happy to give you all the positives and negatives of their breed. Yes, all breeds have negatives, if they say there are none they're lying. Bring paper and write down the names of breeders they recommend. Check out their web-sites, and their actual place if they're within driving distance. Ask what kind of testing they do on their breeding stock. Both these dogs are known for hip and elbow problems and a dog that hasn't been tested for defects (OFA or PENN-HIP) shouldn't be bred. ask to see the proof on paper, then go to the OFA or PENN-HIP websites and check to make sure everything lines up.  I'll give you a couple of links to check out.
http://www.canecorso.org/beware.htm    This is a good guide for buying a puppy of any breed, I just grabbed it off my breed's homepage. 
http://www.amrottclub.org/   should be some good info for you there on rotties
http://clubs.akc.org/aba/    and there you go for Bullies.
You might also want to go over your homeowners policy and see if any breeds are mentioned as being forbidden. More and more companys are discriminating on the basis of breed now. Anyway, I'm done typing for a bit so read up and post any more questions you have here. Cheers,
Shawn
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Antibubba
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 03:33:43 AM »

Have you considered a Boxer?  Less drool, and very friendly.
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 04:29:58 AM »

Quote
Irish Wolfhound
Quote
Have you considered a Boxer?
Quote
A German Shepherd Dog might be a viable alternative.

Quote
Ive had a really good experience with pit bulls


I'm so sorry, I neglected the mandatory recommendation of something outside of the paramaters of your question......
I highly recommend Begals. 
No good reason, but you asked about Mastiff vs. Rottweiler, so I'd better suggest an alternate breed.....


 rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
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SpookyPistolero
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2007, 04:40:55 AM »

The Mastiff is the breed of kings. If you can afford one, you should really get one. My family has owned many of them, and when I have anything resembling disposable income I'll have one myself someday. We've always had English and Neopolitan mastiffs and they have been fantastic, but I've known a few bullmastiffs and they were very fine dogs as well. They LOVE the ladies of the house and will always be right next to them to protect them. They are excellent with children and can play with proportionate power (such as being rough with me, but barely nudging the little ones).

I'm not a big fan of the rottweilers. The ones I have known have been unpredictable, even towards their master. It's not really an option for me, and I don't have quite enough experience to comment further about them.

Go for the mastiff.
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Harold Tuttle
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2007, 05:33:21 AM »

i recommend bagels
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Felonious Monk/Fignozzle
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2007, 06:01:09 AM »

Good info about guardian dogs:
http://www.molosserdogs.com

Also, they've bred an AMERICAN Mastiff which by heredity is approx. 7/8 English Mastiff and 1/8 Anatolian Shepherd, which virtually eliminates the drool mouth and many of the diseases known to plague Mastiffs (dysplasia, short lifespan).  I'd recommend at least a look:
http://www.flyingwfarms.com/amastiff_index.html
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Balog
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2007, 06:09:32 AM »

Wow, I'd never seen that American Mastiff before. Thanks for posting that. Now if only someone would take up where Swinford left off and get a Bandog that breeds true....
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Warren
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2007, 07:22:10 AM »

No dog is going to "knock down and hold" an intruder.....the only useful family gaurd dog will alert to an intrusion so that you can deal with the threat appropriately.......
I've never known of a mean bullmastiff.  Friend in the Marines had two, both were like 150lb puppies.
Rotties, though....not a big fan.  I've known people who've been bit or had mean ones.

Well they were trained to that to poachers back in the day. I was hoping I could get mine trained to do the same.
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Warren
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 07:24:10 AM »

Quote
http://www.canecorso.org/beware.htm    This is a good guide for buying a puppy of any breed, I just grabbed it off my breed's homepage. 
http://www.amrottclub.org/   should be some good info for you there on rotties
http://clubs.akc.org/aba/    and there you go for Bullies.

Thanks for the tips and the links.
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Warren
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2007, 07:35:05 AM »

Those Amastiffs look good. All the benefits of the Bull but without the drool? Niiiice.
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2007, 07:44:37 AM »

No dog is going to "knock down and hold" an intruder.....the only useful family gaurd dog will alert to an intrusion so that you can deal with the threat appropriately.......
I've never known of a mean bullmastiff.  Friend in the Marines had two, both were like 150lb puppies.
Rotties, though....not a big fan.  I've known people who've been bit or had mean ones.

Well they were trained to that to poachers back in the day. I was hoping I could get mine trained to do the same.

IMHO, that sounds like highly specialized training, which you're not likely to find (or will pay $$$$ for).  There might be someone out there that does it, good luck.
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-Jason D.
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 "Why'd you open your bonghole, you smelly hippie? You'd sacrifice a beautiful woman to save a moderately attractive monkey? You must have smoked some bad granola."

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Calumus
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2007, 08:00:59 AM »

On a couple of the breeds suggested, Boxers are great dogs but have a VERY high energy level and may not be the best if you don't have room and time for them to run. German shepard dogs have been essentially ruined by the show breeders. In an attempt to get a "look" that the judges like they've changed the breeds structure so much that the vast majority of them end up with dysplasia. If you want a shepard type dog look at a Belgian Malinois. They are still healthy and that's what you see a lot of schutzhund people switching to. The American Mastiff is still a bandog, and despite what breeders say does still drool and suffer from dysplasia. I have a Cane Corso and they "don't drool" either, though I think that if you ask anyone who owns one you'll find that that's not exactly true. Large dog will always have a chance at dysplasia, by breeding dogs who have good hips all you are doing is reducing the chances for the pups to suffer from it as well. As far as life span goes, the bigger the dog, the shorter the life. Selective breeding and better nutrition have changed that a lot in recent years. A decade ago the average life of a Great Dane was only about 6 years, now its around 10. You still won't see too many making it to 15 though, it just the nature of the beast. As far as the molosserdogs website, they don't exactly have the best reputation in the dog world, Try this site for better info  http://www.moloss.com/
A pet quality bullmastiff isn't any more expensive then a pet quality rottie or any other large breed dog, you're looking at an average of $1000-$1500 for one that's well bred, unless of course you choose to rescue then you're looking at considerably less and you're doing a good deed at the same time. http://www.petfinder.com/                   
English Mastiffs are awesome dogs but an average male weighs about 60 pounts more then an average bullmastiff, and about 80 pounds more then a rottie. Neopolitans are also beautiful but I really wouldn't recomend one for a 1st time dog owner. A properly bred Neo can be a serious handful for the inexperienced. Beagles, while cute, fall into the catagory known as "feeder dogs" fun to play with, good for hunting with; but they don't deliver a whole lot of peace of mind if they're what's protecting your loved ones while you're away. One other breed you might want to look at is the Dogue de Bordeaux. Its the dog from Turner and Hooch. Great family dogs. About the same excersize requirements and size as a Bullie, and great with their kids. They don't drool quite as much as Hooch did in the movie, they fed him a constant diet of honey to keep the juices flowing. What area of the country are you in? There are a good number of places with breed specific legislation now and that may also have an effect on your final choice. Any more questions, post em here. I'll be on for a couple more hours before I have to go out and celebrate my heritage. Cheers,
Shawn


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Warren
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2007, 08:30:36 AM »

Thanks, Shawn.

I'm moving to the Vegas area soon. So I need a dog that can stand a little heat, though it will live inside most of the time. And since I'm not going to be outside when the day is at it's hottest I'm not going to subject my pet(s) to that.

I've not seen anything about Bulls that says they are heat intolerant.

A boss of mine had a Boxer, a great, loving dog but it never stopped. It must of slept sometime but not when I was around.

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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2007, 08:40:24 AM »

I had a female Rott that made it to 11 before cancer took her.  Pretty old for a Rotty.  

Smartest dog I've ever had, and the best disposition to boot.  Baby was calm, great with people - especially kids, which she loved - and never made an aggressive move against another animal unless directly attacked, which only happened once, thank goodness.  What she turned into for that instant was a little scary - a black blur of gnashing teeth and snarling fury - but the instant the threat was gone she went right back to her old, calm self.

Teaching her anything was a breeze.  She picked it up immediately.  In fact, she was a little too smart sometimes, picking up on behaviors and spoken cues that make for some interesting and funny situations.  Hip dysplasia was a problem the last year or so.

Given the Rotty's penchant for hip problems I'd probably never go with another purebred, but I wouldn't hesitate for something like a Rott/Lab mix.  I've seen several and they were all good dogs.  I'd probably stick with a female for the better disposition and smaller size.

Brad
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Calumus
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2007, 09:26:32 AM »

OK I just looked it up, as of right now there are no state wide breed bans in Nevada, but that can change so you need to keep an eye on things. With what I imagine the heat is like in the summers in vegas I wouldn't recommend leaving a dog outside for any length of time. The more heavily muscled the breed, the less they're likely to enjoy the heat. My dog originates in Sicily but hates the hot weather and doesn't want to come in out of the snow. Go figure Smiley   I'd really be leaning more towards the Bullie for Vegas. Obviously any breed can live anywhere assuming the house is heated/air conditioned properly but a Bullie will be able to stay out with you longer if you're farting around the yard. Go sit in the sun in a black shirt, then go try it in a light brown one. Which would be cooler on a hot day? As far as getting a mix breed to avoid the problems associated with a paticular purebred, its not all that effective. Don't get me wrong, the more dogs we rescue from shelters the better, but nothing gaurentees that you won't get the worst health characteristics of both breeds combined. You might get a RottiexLab mix that has bad hips (which are a problem for all large breeds) tends to over eat. befriends every strange man who enters your house while you're not home, and has a high genetic potential for cancer and heart disease (which are the rotties biggest problems other then HD) Genetics is a crap shoot, at least if you stick with a pure bred you have an idea of exactly which problem you need to look out for. With mixes you have to watch out for 2 or more sets of problems. Here's one more site for you (in case I hadn't already tied up your weekend with reading)   http://www.chazhound.com/forums/
That's a really good site with a huge amount of knowledge on it. Like anything else you read online you'll want to double check things before taking them as absolute fact. Anything else, ask away. 1 more hour til I start turning my guts green, but I'll be back here tomorrow. Cheers,
Shawn
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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2007, 10:05:57 AM »


Quote
Genetics is a crap shoot, at least if you stick with a pure bred you have an idea of exactly which problem you need to look out for.

Maybe, but the genetics of crossbreeding tend to drastically lower the potential for health problems.  In a crossbreed you are far, far less likely to encounter the health issues of the parent breeds.  The scientific term for it is 'heterosis'.  In the ranching business it's referred to it as 'hybrid vigor' but I have no idea how it's labeled in the canine world.

Brad
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Calumus
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2007, 10:29:01 AM »

That's the problem though, with dogs many different breeds have the same health issues. Dysplasia being the best example. With mixed breed dogs there is a very high chance that neither of the parents (assuming only one male mated with the female and there aren't pups with a couple of different fathers in the litter) has had any testing what so ever done for the problems that can effect their breed. So you may have a female who's hips will be shot by the time she's 2 breeding with a male who's geneticly disposed to epilepsy. Now you may get lucky and have pups that dodged the bullet in either case, or you could get a pup who has its 1st seizure at 6 months old and damages an already fragile hip. I don't know how it is with cattle, my grandfather was a dairy farmer but sold the herd before I was old enough to really start asking questions; but from what I understand, dog breeds are so close geneticly that breeding out to something else won't really help anything. I'm really not an expert on this but from the things I've read on it, it makes sense to me.  http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/articles/dogs/015-01.htm   Just one thing I found in a quick search. Anyway, time to go don a funny plastic hat.
Cheers for real. happy St. Patricks Day.
Shawn
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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2007, 10:41:33 AM »

The fact still remains that crossbreeds tend to have far fewer health issues than the parent breeds, even between breeds where both parents share the same problem (i.e. hip dysplasia).  Given the choice between known health issues of purebreds and the high probability of those issues being minimized through crossbreeding, I'll take the crossbreed.

As far as genetics being so close that they effectively cancel out the effects of crossbreeding ... well ... hogwash.  Genetics have to be "close" for the animals to even breed at all.  Infinitesimally small variations in genetics are what make for different breeds within a species, or even subtle differences within breeds.  The only time genetics are "too close" to make a difference is when you are talking about a male and female purebred of the same breed (which is the problem in the first place!).

I, too, am off to celebrate St. Patrick's.  See y'all on Monday!

Brad
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