Author Topic: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.  (Read 16957 times)

Manedwolf

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Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« on: September 07, 2007, 09:11:31 AM »
Quote
Avoiding Kids: How Men Cope
With Being Cast as Predators
September 6, 2007
The Wall Street Journal

These days, if Rian Romoli accidentally bumps into a child, he quickly raises his hands above his shoulders. "I don't want to give even the slightest indication that any inadvertent touching occurred," says Mr. Romoli, an economist in La Cañada Flintridge, Calif.

Ted Wallis, a doctor in Austin, Texas, recently came upon a lost child in tears in a mall. His first instinct was to help, but he feared people might consider him a predator. He walked away. "Being male," he explains, "I am guilty until proven innocent."

In San Diego, retiree Ralph Castro says he won't allow himself to be alone with a child -- even in an elevator.

Last month, I wrote about how our culture teaches children to fear men. Hundreds of men responded, many lamenting that they've now become fearful of children. They said they avert their eyes when kids are around, or think twice before holding even their own children's hands in public.

Men, do you find yourself limiting contact with kids for fear that you'll be accused of being a predator? Is there anything that can be done about this societal problem? Share your thoughts3.

Frank McEnulty, a builder in Long Beach, Calif., was once a Boy Scout scoutmaster. "Today, I wouldn't do that job for anything," he says. "All it takes is for one kid to get ticked off at you for something and tell his parents you were acting weird on the campout."

It's true that men are far more likely than women to be sexual predators. But our society, while declining to profile by race or nationality when it comes to crime and terrorism, has become nonchalant about profiling men. Child advocates are advising parents never to hire male babysitters. Airlines are placing unaccompanied minors with female passengers.

Child-welfare groups say these precautions minimize risks. But men's rights activists argue that our societal focus on "bad guys" has led to an overconfidence in women. (Children who die of physical abuse are more often victims of female perpetrators, usually mothers, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.)

Though groups that cater to the young are working harder to identify predators, they also ask that risks be kept in perspective. Big Brothers Big Sisters of America does criminal background checks on each of its 250,000 volunteers, and has social workers assess them. Since 1990, the group says, it has had fewer than 10 abuse allegations per year. More than 98% of the alleged abusers were male.

"If we wanted to make sure we never had a problem, one approach would be to just become Big Sisters -- to say we won't serve boys," says Mack Koonce, the group's chief operating officer. But, of course, that would deny hundreds of thousands of boys contact with male mentors.

The Boy Scouts of America now has elaborate rules to prevent both abuse and false accusations. There are 1.2 million Scout leaders, and the organization kicks out about 175 of them a year over abuse allegations or for violating policies.

These policies can be intricate. For instance, four adult leaders are needed for each outing. If a sick child must go home, two adults drive him and two stay with the others, so no adult is ever alone with a Scout. "It's protection for the adults, as well as the children," says a Scouts spokesman.

The result of all this hyper-carefulness, however, is that men often feel like untouchables. In Cochranville, Pa., Ray Simpson, a bus driver, says that he used to have 30 kids stop at his house on Halloween. But after his divorce, with people knowing he was a man living alone, he had zero visitors. "I felt like crying at the end of the evening," he says.

At Houston Intercontinental Airport, businessman Mitch Reifel was having a meal with his 5-year-old daughter when a policeman showed up to question him. A passerby had reported his interactions with the child seemed "suspicious."

In Skokie, Ill., Steve Frederick says the director of his son's day-care center called him in to reprimand him for "inappropriately touching the children." "I was shocked," he says. "Whatever did she mean?" She was referring to him reading stories with his son and other kids on his lap. A parent had panicked when her child mentioned sitting on a man's lap.

"Good parenting and good education demand that we let children take risks," says Mr. Frederick, a career coach. "We install playground equipment, putting them at risk of falls and broken bones. Why? We want them to challenge themselves and develop muscles and confidence.

"Likewise, while we don't want sexual predators to harm our kids, we do want our kids to develop healthy relationships with adults, both men and women. Instilling a fear of men is a profound disservice to everyone."

K Frame

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »
Oh hell yeah.

White = guilty

Man = guilty

You know, at one time we ruled the world.

What the hell happened?
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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 09:40:43 AM »
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What the hell happened?

'Zero tolerance', handwringing, bedwetting liberal feminization.

I've gotten icy glares from mothers for smiling back or speaking to a child.  Like I'm about to snatch the little snotblower or something.  rolleyes

HankB

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 09:56:42 AM »
Oh hell yeah.

White = guilty

Man = guilty

You know, at one time we ruled the world.

What the hell happened?
The 19th Amendment.
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grislyatoms

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 11:15:20 AM »
I have to be very careful when I volunteer in my kiddo's class.

Last year, towards the end of the year, some of the kids began giving me hugs. I didn't respond at all, I just stood there and tried to get them interested in something else. Sucks to have to be like that.  sad

This year, they are requiring volunteers to submit to background checks. I may not volunteer this year, if it turns out to be too much hassle. I just had to do another background check for the Dept. of Health, I'm a bit fed up with all the checks.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 11:17:40 AM »
We have far too many lawyers running around on the loose.
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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 11:20:22 AM »
Quote
In Cochranville, Pa., Ray Simpson, a bus driver, says that he used to have 30 kids stop at his house on Halloween. But after his divorce, with people knowing he was a man living alone, he had zero visitors. "I felt like crying at the end of the evening," he says.

Is this true?  Hanging up a sign that says, "single old lecherous hump" on your door discourages Halloween visitors?  If only I'd known this sooner!  Peace and quiet on All Hallows' Eve!
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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 11:44:16 AM »
Quote
In Cochranville, Pa., Ray Simpson, a bus driver, says that he used to have 30 kids stop at his house on Halloween. But after his divorce, with people knowing he was a man living alone, he had zero visitors. "I felt like crying at the end of the evening," he says.

Is this true?  Hanging up a sign that says, "single old lecherous hump" on your door discourages Halloween visitors?  If only I'd known this sooner!  Peace and quiet on All Hallows' Eve!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 02:07:48 PM »
This year, they are requiring volunteers to submit to background checks. I may not volunteer this year, if it turns out to be too much hassle. I just had to do another background check for the Dept. of Health, I'm a bit fed up with all the checks.


Yup, he must be a pedophile.  I mean, if you have nothing to hide...     police
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Thor

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 03:07:40 PM »
Right here is the reason it's become so problematic, along with the fact that there have been some psychologists and psychiatrists that have literally convinced kids they have been "molested".

Quote
Frank McEnulty, a builder in Long Beach, Calif., was once a Boy Scout scoutmaster. "Today, I wouldn't do that job for anything," he says. "All it takes is for one kid to get ticked off at you for something and tell his parents you were acting weird on the campout."

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Telperion

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 03:09:37 PM »
Yep, there is a cloud of suspicion that hangs over any man (especially unmarried) who wants to have any type of contact with children.  Here's a similar article from the BBC.

Quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6709313.stm
Men helpers 'fear paedophile tag'
More than one in eight men do not volunteer to work with children because they are worried people will think they are a paedophile, a survey suggests.

Childrens' charities NCH and Chance UK also say almost one in five men do not come forward because they would have to undertake a criminal records check.

More volunteers will have to be checked because of a new child protection law being introduced next year.

The survey found 69% of men do not give up their time to help youngsters.

The charities organised the Volunteer Survey 2007, which interviewed 1,019 adults.

Work commitments were given as a reason by 59% of those who did not volunteer, and 68% said they did not have enough time.

In all, 13% of the men questioned said they would not choose to volunteer to work with children due to fear of being perceived as a paedophile.

Mentoring plea

Both the NCH and Chance UK are calling for men to come forward and mentor boys aged five to 11.

The NCH's chief executive, Clare Tickell, said: "Many children, especially boys, are desperately in need of a male mentor, which is why we urgently need men to come forward despite any fears they may have about public perception.

"We work hard to ensure volunteers are checked by the police, trained and monitored, which we hope encourages men to come forward and helps assuage the public's concern."

Jo Hobbs, development manager at Chance UK, said: "Male volunteers are more difficult to recruit, yet positive male role models can make a huge difference to the lives of challenging children and young people.

"We urge anyone out there interested to get in touch to find out more."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 07:52:28 PM »
Didn't we have a thread a few weeks ago, about how no men are volunteering for Big Brothers/Big Sisters? 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 09:26:58 PM »
I find this ironic in the face of the fact that parents somewhere, though I don't know who, are buying those disgusting "mini britney" sort of looks for their eight year olds.

WTF is WITH that? I saw some in a store window, midriff-baring tops and blatantly "belongs on a streetwalker" short shorts that say "brat" or other things meant for near-toddlers. What the hell? Who would buy that and put it on a kid? Huh? 

Quote
Gannett News Service

From spaghetti straps for preschoolers to ultra-miniskirts on tweens, girls clothing is getting noticeably skimpier.

Kid-magnet chains, including Limited Too and Abercrombie Kids, as well as discount stores such as Target are focusing their marketing efforts on a much younger demographic, luring young girls into ensembles that in years past had been reserved for their teenage sisters.

Bikinis for babies?

GapKids recently featured a white, crocheted string bikini you'd likely see Anna Kournikova wearing on the cover of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.

The bikini was for a 12-month-old.

Racks at Target held several bathing suits perfect for a Hawaiian Tropic bikini competition. The crocheted and camouflage-designed suits started at size 4 in the little girls' section.

Inseams on "classic" shorts at stores such as Abercrombie Kids and Hollister Co. are microscopic. And halter tops, shirts often lauded by fashion consultants for their ability to enhance a less-than-voluptuous chest, are everywhere for every age.

Moms hoping to find anything even mildly modest have to be happy Bermuda shorts are trendy again.

"It's a very scary phenomenon," says Patricia Leavy, a sociology professor at Stonehill College in Easton, Mass. "I don't think it's going to go away. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better."

Leavy says the clothing trend is only piggybacking off pop culture and the toy industry, where Bratz dolls have spun off Baby Bratz, and celebrities such as Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan have grown up much faster than the fans who follow them.

"The reason it's really happening is money," Leavy says.

Balog

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 09:30:04 PM »
Signs you're a terrible parent: you let your 12 yo daughter dress like a cheap prostitute, you enter your child into a "beauty pageant" aka the pedophile's shopping mall, you think you can outrun that train......
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 10:01:03 PM »
I find this ironic in the face of the fact that parents somewhere, though I don't know who, are buying those disgusting "mini britney" sort of looks for their eight year olds.

WTF is WITH that? I saw some in a store window, midriff-baring tops and blatantly "belongs on a streetwalker" short shorts that say "brat" or other things meant for near-toddlers. What the hell? Who would buy that and put it on a kid? Huh? 


The Britney look is also popular for fourteen and sixteen-year-olds.  And in the summertime, it's hard to drive around town without seeing a bunch of cheerleaders washing cars to raise money.  High school girls in halter tops and short shorts, holding signs on street corners and sudsing down your car, even if you're a forty-five-year-old man.  I would say there's a big difference between an eight-year-old child and a young woman of sixteen.  There is.  But at the same time as this trend has developed, there seems to be a fairly recent attitude* that adult men should be ashamed of themselves if they notice the curves on a girl of high school age, as if they were potential child predators.  But the way many girls are dressed seems to announce their sexuality rather stridently, as if begging us all to notice.  Something seems out of place, there. 


*It seems recent to me, because the Oldies stations play songs about "teen-age queens" and "sweet sixteen" and "young girl get out of my life," etc.  And of course prior to those days, women were routinely getting married at seventeen.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2007, 12:30:05 AM »
And if people didn't buy those clothes they would quit making them.
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longeyes

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2007, 06:20:21 AM »
Who knew testosterone would become a hazardous material?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2007, 06:40:38 AM »
I would say there's a big difference between an eight-year-old child and a young woman of sixteen.  There is.  But at the same time as this trend has developed, there seems to be a fairly recent attitude* that adult men should be ashamed of themselves if they notice the curves on a girl of high school age, as if they were potential child predators. 

Biology and every bit of culture up to the 20th century says that you are supposed to notice them once they reach puberty. That's basic biology. And up till this century, and still in a lot of regions of the world, girls were married at 14 or so. American west? Pioneers? They were already married and having kids.

I don't think there's anything wrong with someone noticing a 16-year-old girl is attractive as long as they only look politely and do nothing further. It's just when someone has any reaction to a prebubescent child other than "protect", (like that sicko in Oregon now) that they need to be locked up away from the public, because that's just an incurable mental illness and they are, indeed, a danger to children.

Noticing teen girls that are well past puberty is normal as long as one just notices. But if someone looks at any young child that way, they need to either get serious mental help or off themselves as soon as possible, for everyone's benefit. There's no excuse for that, ever.

It just makes me wonder what is going on with some of the clothing designers in that regard, because my reaction to seeing that sort of outfit for a little kid is nausea and revulsion...and wanting to smack the parent.

There's something seriously wrong with society if the sexualization of children is okay...and if there's no possible innocent context seen to hugging a child anymore.

Did you know that they cut the song "If you sit on my lap today" from one of the classic Rankin-Bass Christmas specials in new broadcasts because it "made people uncomfortable"? Seriously, what wrongness is going through their heads that they assume something that no sane person would ever assume? 


Sindawe

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2007, 06:54:11 AM »
Quote
It's just when someone has any reaction to a prebubescent child other than "protect"...

Does "ICKY!!!  Get it away!!!" get a pass?  grin

Quote
It just makes me wonder what is going on with some of the clothing designers in that regard, because my reaction to seeing that sort of outfit for a little kid is nausea and revulsion...and wanting to smack the parent.

Maybe the childs fashion industry is rife with pedophiles?  Brings to mind this bit of fictional discourse from a few years back...

===================

The video shows Chiana in a black dress, dancing around on a deck.

Chiana: "You wanta dance?"

Bobby: "I'm not very good."

Chiana: "Oh, come on."  She bounces to the music: "... and drivin... and drivin... and reverse... reverse."  She laughs.  She dances some more, breathing heavily.  "Bobby, what do you think of sex?"

Bobby: "Uh... what?"

Chiana tosses her hair with her hands: "Sex."

Bobby: "Why are you asking me?"

Chiana: "Oh, just curious."

Bobby: "I... haven't had it yet."

Chiana: "What!?  You haven't had it?"  She stops dancing  and leans towards the camera.  "Are you serious?  How old are you?"

Bobby: "Thirteen."

Chiana: "Thirteen.  Well, what are you waiting for?"

Bobby: "It's against the law."

Chiana: "To have sex?"

Bobby: "At thirteen."

Chiana: "Wow!  Well, that's frelled.  Who cares when you have it?"

Bobby: "My mom.."

Chiana: "Okay.  So... why are all the little girls wearing all those clothes?"

Bobby: "Because they see it on the tv and in the magazines."

Chiana: "But somebody... sold them the clothes, so somebody... wants them to have sex."

Bobby: "I never thought of it like that."

Chiana laughs and starts dancing again.

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longeyes

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2007, 06:59:52 AM »
There was a time when "pioneers" married and raised families in their mid-teens, but back then you went from child to adult without a caterpillar phase.  Today you can be pushing forty and still be a de facto adolescent working on a "degree" and getting your life experience at Starbucks.  The "teenage" years are a marketing category that means huge dollar returns to corporations who couldn't care less about morality or social impact.  You don't have to wonder about clothing designers who have turned sexuality from society's gold to cheap coin; sublimation became the one dirty word to them long, long ago.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2007, 07:12:32 AM »
Manedwolf, I guess I would agree with most of that. 

I guess what I'm getting at with the car wash thing is that it just seems really stupid to let your teenage daughter stand around half-dressed in public, soaping up strangers' cars.  Doesn't it?  Or am I just being weird again?
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SteveS

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2007, 07:17:16 AM »
Quote
It's true that men are far more likely than women to be sexual predators.

Sure is!  There are some DOJ stats from the late 90's that says 99% of of the people that commit sex crimes are men (granted, this includes crimes against adults).  When you combine this with most parents tending to be protective of their children and the publicity that sex crimes against children get in the media ('To Catch a Predator', Church sex abuse stories, and other high profile incidents), it is not surprising that things are the way they are.  In my previous career, I worked as a family therapist.  I probably saw hundreds of child victims and only one was abused by a woman and they were actually fairly close in age. 

Quote
WTF is WITH that? I saw some in a store window, midriff-baring tops and blatantly "belongs on a streetwalker" short shorts that say "brat" or other things meant for near-toddlers. What the hell? Who would buy that and put it on a kid? Huh?

I have seen thong underwear for toddlers, so nothing would surprise me.  I was with my daughter in toy aisle the other day and they had a ton of those Bratz dolls.  I don't say no to a lot, but those will never be in my house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bratz
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2007, 07:23:26 AM »
Why are women under-represented among pedophiles?  We must do something about this inequality.  For too long, women have been told that they can't abuse children, just because they aren't male.  That is just wrong.  Sisters, empower yourselves!  Equality now! 
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jeepmor

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2007, 11:36:50 AM »
Quote
I saw some in a store window, midriff-baring tops and blatantly "belongs on a streetwalker" short shorts that say "brat" or other things meant for near-toddlers. What the hell? Who would buy that and put it on a kid?

Britney Spears is doing for white trash what prisoners without belts did for the gangbanger crowds and wanna be punks of today.  Both groups are too young to know better, but if one of their music stars is wearing it, they just have to have it.  And unfortunately, it works.

That said, my wife is 7 months pregnant with a boy and all of these things have quickly come to the forefront of my mind.  I have repeatedly whispered in her ear on many occasions of late while we are out in public and I see how some parents don't mind if their pre-teen dresses like a pornstar.  "I'm so glad we are having a boy."  "How can parents let their kids dress like that?"

As for the pedophile angle, yeah, I agree that society has made it difficult for any man without children to go to the park and revisit their youth by participating in activities with the youth.  I love playing ball and wrestling with my nephews, some of the best memories I have with them.  But doing that in the park with a stangers kids, in todays times, would simply get me labelled instead of seen as a caring man that just wants to play harmlessly with the kids.  It used to be okay, but now, it's not, simple as that.  My wife's cousin, single at 38, joined the church so he could get close to the kids and work with them in a positive light so that he did not get seen as the "oddly alone guy" out playing with the children and get labelled as a pedophile.

He has been a great influence on these kids, but sadly enough, I don't think he could accomplish this positive influence on them any other way in today's society. 
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LadySmith

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Re: Is this ever true. Men automatically under suspicion now.
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2007, 02:08:29 AM »
What happened? Accepting the trend to punish everyone, instead of just the perpetrators, for the crimes of a few. A few mass murderers ruined things for law-abiding gun owners, lying strippers took the credibility of rape victims down a notch and pedophiles have tarnished men everywhere.
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