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Author Topic: No mention of Greenspan's comments on Iraq, eh?  (Read 9655 times)
wooderson
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« on: September 17, 2007, 08:03:28 AM »

Tee-hee.
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The Rabbi
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 08:10:19 AM »

What were his comments on Iraq?

Greenspan is an economist. What does an economist have to say about Iraq that would be informative?
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 08:12:11 AM »

He claimed that the war was all about oil, pretty much.

Should have stuck to being an economist.
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Ron
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 08:12:46 AM »

Reported slightly out of context.

Stability in the region = oil

Saddam acquiring WMD's  = instability in the region

In a round about way it was about oil, big deal.

It wasn't about oil the way the left and fringe elements describe though.

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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 08:27:42 AM »

If the Iraq war was all about oil, then why the hell am I paying $2.65 a gallon for gas instead of 50 cents a gallon?

If this war were truly about oil we would have seized the biggest oil fields, thrown a tight loop around them, and begun pumping them dry to export back to the US.
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wooderson
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 08:34:03 AM »

Regardless of the validity of "war for oil" arguments, that's not a very good counter: why would it logically follow that a "war for oil" would directly benefit consumers? You think we're running some kind Hugo Chavez commie paradise or somethin'?
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The Rabbi
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 08:35:58 AM »

If the Iraq war was all about oil, then why the hell am I paying $2.65 a gallon for gas instead of 50 cents a gallon?

If this war were truly about oil we would have seized the biggest oil fields, thrown a tight loop around them, and begun pumping them dry to export back to the US.

If we wanted Iraqi oil we could have simply dropped sanctions and bought all the oil we wanted.
If we wanted to steal oil, we were in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia already.  We could have simply stolen their oil.
But that doesn't make very good bumper sticker material.  "Bush Lied for Oil" fits much better.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 08:46:15 AM »

Regardless of the validity of "war for oil" arguments, that's not a very good counter: why would it logically follow that a "war for oil" would directly benefit consumers? You think we're running some kind Hugo Chavez commie paradise or somethin'?


You're joking, right?

An unfettered supply of cheap (well below market price) oil wouldn't just benefit the American driver, it would also benefit the American economy and given a significant competitive edge over other economic powers.

If the cost of the energy you need to run a plan is 25% less than your competitor... you see where this is going, right?

But, at its most basic level, whenever you hear an anti-war protester chanting "No war for oil" they're NOT talking about 3M. That's why some of their signs have pictures of SUVs with the big red slash on it. To these clowns, this war is all about getting the oil to make gasoline that will let Joe Sixpack run his 6 MPG Chevy Behemouth (sp?) at 90 MPH on a trip to the store 30 miles across town for a postage stamp.


So, I'll ask again.

There's a goodly war going right now...

WHERE THE HELL IS MY LOW-PRICE GASOLINE???!!!???
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Headless Thompson Gunner
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 09:00:03 AM »

Tee-hee.
Tee hee what?

Do you know what Greenspan actually said, or are you merely parroting what one biased European news "source" misquoted Greenspan as having said?

Hint:  What Greenspan actually said is a lot less beneficial to your position than you might think.  I'd be a little more cautious about brining peoples' attention to Greenspan's thoughts on Iraq.
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wooderson
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 09:03:00 AM »

The first half there is irrelevant: again, there's no reason to believe that a 'war for oil' necessarily equates directly to consumer pocketbooks - it could just as well pump up energy profits. Or it could simply be a war to ensure continued access to oil at status quo prices (which is what Greenspan said... a combination of the two is basically the viewpoint of everyone I know who's argued that the war was for oil).

As to the latter half - an SUV is the easiest symbol to read as oil and gets the point across. That's just marketing right there.

Quote
What Greenspan actually said is a lot less beneficial to your position than you might think.
Ooooh oooh oooh!

What is 'my position'?
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 09:16:24 AM »

Sure, Wooderson, whatever.

Let's have a something for whomever...

Tell me...

If an increased supply of cheap oil from Iraq were to come into the country, how could it boost oil company profits (it would likely decrease oil company profits) without benefitting consumers in myriad ways?

What you're proposing is a mythical product that vanishes by yet somehow generates profit without having either a direct or indirect effect on .

Say, though, that all of that oil goes straight into the strategic petroleum reserve. That constitutes a lagtime benefit to consumers as it becomes a hedge against future oil issues. We may not see that benefit today, maybe not tomorrow, but its impact will be felt even if it is simply pumped into a salt dome and the government sits on it.

Or, say that consumers see none of that oil in the form of gasoline or other readily used fractals -- it all goes into the industrial sector -- again, this will promote a positive consumer effect.

But, the fact that the United States isn't siphoning Iraq dry right now, either for immediate use or indirect stockpiling, puts the lie to the claims that this war is solely about oil.
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wooderson
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 09:32:55 AM »

Quote
If an increased supply of cheap oil from Iraq were to come into the country, how could it boost oil company profits (it would likely decrease oil company profits) without benefitting consumers in myriad ways?
It would benefit consumers insofar as we'd all continue to be able to heat our homes and purchase plastic consumer goods and gas up our vehicles. That doesn't mean there is a reason to believe that strategic control over an oil supply immediately translates into Venezuelan-priced gas, which was your original strawman.

You're the only person I've ever seen suggest (in your version of 'war for oil' arguments) that the plan was to "steal" oil and flood our market and reserves with it.
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JohnBT
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 07:31:22 AM »

"It would benefit consumers insofar as we'd all continue to be able to heat our homes"

All of us? But I heat with natural gas. You got an economic way to convert oil to natural gas?

John
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wooderson
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 07:49:21 AM »

And there are people who don't drive cars, too! Shocking!
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Paddy
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 08:05:16 AM »

wooderson, do you think there's any chance Greenspan sees the train wreck coming from umpteen years of irresponsible misguided Federal Reserve policy (hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time) and is either stretching the truth or just making up *expletive deleted*it to cover his own ass?
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The Rabbi
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 08:24:47 AM »

"It would benefit consumers insofar as we'd all continue to be able to heat our homes"

All of us? But I heat with natural gas. You got an economic way to convert oil to natural gas?

John
Natural gas is generally a by-product of oil production.  But in any case, you still benefit because of the economic law of substitutes.
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