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Author Topic: Student Tasered at John Kerry Speech  (Read 17929 times)
Nitrogen
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« on: September 17, 2007, 10:01:59 PM »

Just when you think that Republicans have the lock on removing people that disagree with them from their speeches and ralleys, John Kerry does one better.

He has a student removed and tazered for SUPPORTING him.

Watch this disturbing video:
http://www.youtube.com/v/CheY0jYXJjY

I hope John Kerry immidately comes out publically and apologises to this student, and lambastes the "Law Enforcement" that tazered him.
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 01:25:23 AM »

Kerry didn't do, or ask, for anything to happen to that student.
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Ben
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 01:39:24 AM »

Was it a taser or a stun gun? Either way, the University police should look into another vendor. The brat was screaming just as loud before and after he was stunned. It wasn't a very effectual tool for subduing him.

Either way, he was your typical privileged liberal kid who believes everyone should respect his right to do whatever he wants regardless of how that affects the rights of others, and that there should never be any repercussions for his behavior. In the 50's he probably would have received a spanking from his parents, which probably would have hurt more than the stun did.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 01:41:56 AM »

That still really doesn't excuse the fact that the tazer was meant to be a tool to stop a dangerous suspect, and is instead being used as a pain compliance device, a sort of electric whip.

A lot of cops need them taken away, IMO.
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Ben
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 01:47:18 AM »

But it would have been a non-issue if he put his hands behind his back, walked out, and either written an op-ed if he wasn't arrested, or retained an attorney if he was.
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Pb
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 02:52:53 AM »

Tazers sometimes kill people.  This was a terrible idea on behalf the police.
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TexasRifleman
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 03:15:43 AM »

Kerry is a moron, the cops here were morons, the student was a moron.

That said, this thread title is VERY dishonest.  Kerry didn't have anything to do with this other than being in the same room.

We can't ask "them" to be honest if we won't.
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charby
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 03:19:21 AM »

I probably would have tazed the kid also, he was fighting/struggling with 4-5 cops.

If you pepper sprayed him, you'd have over spray. If you beat him with a night stick, well lots of witnessed there.

I think he was given ample warning to step away from the microphone but he just didn't have a clue and threw a pissy fit.

-C
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 03:58:22 AM »

Quote
But it would have been a non-issue if he put his hands behind his back, walked out,
Exactly. It's being used as a compliance tool, not as an alternative to deadly force. Put another way, it's being used as a step up compared to previous alternatives (physical force required to subdue) rather than its stated purpose as a step down from previous alternatives (deadly force).
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 04:00:20 AM »

Agree with Texasrifleman, the thread title is completely counter to what actually happened.

Kerry is even heard saying he'll answer the kid's questions.

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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 05:11:03 AM »

I almost pity John Kerry. He is like the mythical evil overlord, with vast legions of minions, and like this kid they are pathetically incompetent. What a crybaby wuss.
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cassandra and sara's daddy
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2007, 07:02:45 AM »

i loathe kerry  that said hes not the guilty one here  its the genius who stormed the mic afer q&a closed  guess mamma never taught him about boundaries.  he caught a crash course here.   and remember this day  malkins site defends john kerry  what a concept.

and far more folks died from night stick trauma than tazers  not to mention that nasty chokehold they used back in the day
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 08:11:27 AM »

You guys are right; I edited the thread subject.

Personally, I feel that Kerry allowed it to happen by not saying anything; but upon more reflection, that could have been a worse idea for him (politically as well as just in general)

To the folks that agree with the police in this instance:

Do you think the taser was appropriate?  There were multiple officers on top of this person.  Was it necessary to taser him?  I'd think that 4-6 officers could manage to handcuff someone and drag them out without using a weapon on him.


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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 10:32:34 AM »

Tough call on the tasing, really.

He seemed to be quite irrational and refused to listen to the officers. Tight quarters, lots of individuals in close proximity...

Even had Kerry said something, I don't think it's likely that the kid would have stopped to listen. He just kept ranting, and I doubt if he would have let Kerry answer in the first place. Probably the best thing he did.

Yeah, really tough call.

I loved the person in the background screaming "WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT?"

Friend of mine is a cop in DC. They were arresting a combative guy one evening and were getting a fight. They dogpiled the guy and got him restrained and were set upon by a youngish utopianist who was berating them for a whole bunch of stuff, arresting a gentle man, going into a cohesive community and breaking it up (yeah, DC doesn't have cohesive communities in the area where she was!), bunch of crap I don't remember...

Anyway, her tune apparently changed when someone in the gathering crowd threw a bottle that whanged off her chest.

David said there's nothing more satisfying than watching liberal fantasies die... Smiley
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Ben
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 10:42:42 AM »

Quote
Do you think the taser was appropriate?  There were multiple officers on top of this person.  Was it necessary to taser him?  I'd think that 4-6 officers could manage to handcuff someone and drag them out without using a weapon on him.

That's really hard to say without being there. My first post sounded callous because quite frankly, I don't have time for whiny, self-centered people like this kid and the mean part of me enjoyed watching him get a dose of reality from the "actions have consequences" side of things.

Let's say he was simply "John Doe" and we didn't hear any audio pre-police or during their attempt to escort him out. Just look at his body action as he resists all the officers. It becomes really tough, even for several people, to subdue one person as fiesty as he was without causing injury. They could punch him, or apply a brachial stun, or force his hands and arms to the point of spraining or breaking something, or any number of physical moves that would subdue him, but hurt him more than a stun. Or they keep trying to subdue him without upscaling physical force, but potentially put themselves at risk of physical injury based on his writhing and flailing. So hard to say from the video.
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 01:39:46 PM »

Do you think the taser was appropriate?
I don't think any police action was necessary in this instance.  However, they felt physical intervention was necessary and once that started the youngster should have just went along with them.

I usually come down on the anti-taser side of things.  They scare the crap out of me and they're potentially deadly.  Rare, but it can happen.  However, in this instance, it seems appropriate.

The youngster had his hands under him it seems.  LawDog addressed this on his blog this evening and when a person is in that state you can't tell if they're going for a knife or a gun.  They aren't getting up off the ground until they're cuffed according to the 'Dog, and if LawDog says that's the way it must be then I'm OK with that.

Now, that said, I do have some experience trying to break a grip when folks are in such a position:  About 9 years of wrestling.  Ain't gonna happen easy.  The 'smart' way is to peel somebody's thumbs away from the grip.  This will involve an officer reaching under the nimrod and I can see why they wouldn't want to do that in the interest of officer safety.

Trying to break a good grip is going to take some force.  Rough guess, back when I wrestled at 145lbs it took around 300-350lbs force to break a good grip with guys my size.  The only way to do it was with the legs, and it took both of them.  Now, how on God's green earth those officers are expect to do that, in that situation, is beyond me.  There just isn't enough room.

The third thing you can do is going to be painful.  Officer gets on top, drops his elbow into the youngster's shoulder, slides off to the side, snakes his arm under the youngster, puts his wrist about under said youngster's, grips his own free hand, and uses his arm like a lever.  Something is going to give, eventually.  I can see why this isn't on the police officer's list of things to try.

The fourth, a variation on the above, would be placing your elbow closer to the spine and pulling up and across the body.  Useful in wrestling as it will expose their back to the mat.  This could have been used to turn the guy, expose his grip to the police, and another officer could have broken the grip.  However, I have personally witnessed somebody's ribs being dislocated (separated from the sternum) while doing this.

So, yeah... taser him.
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Ned Hamford
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 06:00:42 PM »

I've watched the videos a few times.

I think it would have been golden if the kid shouted out 'Help me John Kerry'

 cheesy
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2007, 06:27:36 PM »

A tazering is supposed to be very painful, but truthfully, it would hurt a lot less than a Kerry presidency.
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SteveS
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 12:31:03 AM »

I thought he had some good questions.  It is too bad they were never answered.
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2007, 01:53:34 AM »

Come see the violence inherent in the system!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434

(Sad thing is, I can follow Dennis's argument pretty well.)
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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2007, 01:59:34 AM »

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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2007, 02:17:53 AM »

Brats versus Brutality...the new reality show.  Academia wants "civil discourse"--is that what they've been creating all these years?  Or have they been busy creating little barbarians with library privileges?

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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 03:48:30 AM »

The little bastard got his 15 minutes of fame.  Andy Warhol would be proud of him.
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2007, 05:13:19 AM »

The youngster had his hands under him it seems.  LawDog addressed this on his blog this evening and when a person is in that state you can't tell if they're going for a knife or a gun.  They aren't getting up off the ground until they're cuffed according to the 'Dog, and if LawDog says that's the way it must be then I'm OK with that.

The way I look at it, the taser is not just a substitute for lethal force, it's a substitute for more damaging force period.  For example, would you rather be beaten into submission with one or more nightsticks than be hit with a taser strike?

Just yesterday I read about a man who died from a headbutt from an armless man.  Any force can be lethal.  I read Lawdog's post, and he mentioned a number of options - all of them more painful and/or damaging than a taser hit.

Given that the police ARE going to arrest somebody, and that said somebody is resisting arrest, it becomes a matter of force being applied.  The amount of force needed can vary, and a taser strike doesn't normally cause lasting harm.

I'm not saying that cops don't get taser-happy on occasion, and they definitly shouldn't be used as torture devices, but in general I think that a taser can be used wherever the officer has justification to use physical force - of whatever type.
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2007, 11:14:09 AM »

On the lighter side of things..........


Don't Tase Me, Bro!!
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