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Author Topic: Student Tasered at John Kerry Speech  (Read 17951 times)
longeyes
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2007, 06:16:03 PM »

Cops that can't subdue perps tend to over-react with excessive force.
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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2007, 07:54:09 PM »

I'm ambivalent about this story because I really don't like anybody involved.
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2007, 10:17:41 PM »

So, your complaint is that Kerry avoided getting tased, too?
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Len Budney
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2007, 10:21:50 PM »

So, your complaint is that Kerry avoided getting tased, too?

Heh. It's an enjoyable image, anyway. "Taze 'em all, boys! We'll sort 'em out at the station! Get that man on the stage! I think he started it all!" Cheesy

Like your sig, by the way.

--Len.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 01:28:57 AM »

Cops that can't subdue perps tend to over-react with excessive force.

Interesting.

And, also, I think a bit wrong headed.

Subduing someone physically who is resisting often requires far more force, along with the possibility of injury to either the suspect, police, or bystanders, and can turn into a rapidly escalating situation that can end very badly.

A taser or pepper spray is designed to limit or end resistance before the confrontation becomes even more physical. They are de-escalation tactics because they limit the amount of physical intervention required to subdue someone.

I still contend that this was not a case of excessive force.
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longeyes
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 03:17:15 AM »

Mike, I understand your point and I agree with it.  I'm saying that the new generation of cops and security, many female, use more force of a "non-contact" type--guns and tasers--because they can't handle chaotic situations by other means.
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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.
Mike Irwin
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 03:24:27 AM »

And to be honest, I"m not so certain that that is a bad thing even when it's a woman on the trigger of the taser or pepper spray.

In the old days there were really only two ways to get someone to comply who was dead set on NOT complying -- beat the hell out of him with night sticks, or shoot him.

Mace, and later pepper spray, gave another layer on top of that, one that was inherently less violent.

Tasers are the same.

I think tasers and pepper spray can also go a long way towards protecting police officers from themselves, too, not just the individual they're trying to detain.

With a weapon that requires proximity contact, like a nightstick, it's not unknown for officers to continue to beat an individual far past the point where they're compliant. Emotions take over. No, not all officers are like that, or have had that happen to them, but it can happen.

Tasers and pepper spray are, in that sense, self limiting.
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 04:24:28 AM »

In the old days there were really only two ways to get someone to comply who was dead set on NOT complying -- beat the hell out of him with night sticks, or shoot him.

Yup. And the culture was actually much more favorable to that sort of thing. Giving a good old fashioned beating to punks and drunks tended to meet with general approval, as did shooting down bad guys. I have mixed feelings about the change since then. It's good that some stuff is more easily condemned as brutality, but it's unfortunate that things have run so far the other way that a criminal can sue you because he broke a nail robbing you.

--Len.
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longeyes
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« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2007, 06:53:48 AM »

Then he should have said, "Don't tase me, sister!" grin
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"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.
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« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2007, 09:46:20 AM »

Yup. And the culture was actually much more favorable to that sort of thing. Giving a good old fashioned beating to punks and drunks tended to meet with general approval, as did shooting down bad guys. I have mixed feelings about the change since then. It's good that some stuff is more easily condemned as brutality, but it's unfortunate that things have run so far the other way that a criminal can sue you because he broke a nail robbing you.

--Len.   


Well said.  The leftist drift seems to have started with some good things (equal rights for Blacks, more freedom for women) and then gone on to throw out the baby with the bathwater.  "Officer, you can not administer arbitrary severe beatings.  Better yet, just don't touch anyone at all."
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Paddy
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« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2007, 01:22:15 PM »

Quote
Well said.  The leftist drift seems to have started with some good things (equal rights for Blacks, more freedom for women) and then gone on to throw out the baby with the bathwater.  "Officer, you can not administer arbitrary severe beatings.  Better yet, just don't touch anyone at all."

Those kind of constraints don't just materialize out of thin air.  Usually, they're a response to some egregious  act on the part of the constrained.  In the case of police, some abuse of power; they Rodney King'd or Abner Louima'd somebody one too many times.
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