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Author Topic: Worst case scenario  (Read 22261 times)
Mike Irwin
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 04:04:28 AM »

. . . Clinton pushed through a large tax cut, people were disgusted with it, and the Democrats paid. . . .
I don't remember my taxes going down during the Clinton administraton.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Crap.

You're right.

That should read tax increase.
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longeyes
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 04:12:07 AM »

I'm not saying necessarily in the next four years, but I do think the seeds will be sown and the harvest isn't that far off.  Hillary and her band of imps will push too far and the resistance will begin to form.  It may take a year or two for grass-roots political groups to form, or it may take much longer, but it will happen because the forces are already in place and have been percolating for years.  There is no possible reconciliation between what the Hillaryites want and what most of us on this forum want.  We won't be able to live in the same country because the other side isn't going to leave us alone and isn't going to respect the things we fundamentally honor and value.  That means conflict, chaos, and fragmentation. Right now it's just sound and fury and the gnashing of teeth, but when we start getting hit with serious legislation and serious social restrictions that change our lives and our futures and those of the people we care about most, the games will be over.  How long that takes is up to the Left and to The Great Unknown (the world scene).

If I'm wrong and utopia breaks out, I'll be the first to applaud.

Mike, I can't give you specifics.  Too many variables.  I just don't see how "America" can survive without secession, whatever the final roster of teams and players.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 04:14:30 AM »

Were you around during the 1970s to any substantial degree?

By which I mean, do you remember the political, social, and economic climate of the 1970s in the United States?

You'd have to be, at a minimum, 40 years old to truly appreciate what I'm asking/talking about.
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longeyes
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 04:20:02 AM »

Oh yes, I remember the '60s and '70s quite well, and I know people who say things were much more polarized Back Then.  I don't agree.  I think that was just the sowing period, but serious people were still in charge in that time.  It took the various "liberation" movements of the '70s plus, most importantly, the ascension to power of the "kids" of the '60s to put us in the position we are now in.  The imbruting power of mass media is another force in play.
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 07:07:31 AM »

Quote
I'm a bit torn, because even though he's a very moderate Democrat, he'll still vote with the Democtrats most of the time.
Shack. Warner is not a bad guy, but he's a Democrat, which makes him the enemy in the Old Dominion. But Alexandria and fairfax will likely get him elected to replace RINO Warner. Net loss for the good guys, IMO.

If Hillarycare gets passed, I predict a mass exodus of Docs to "Boutique Medicine" with a limited number of fee-paying patients.

TC
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TC
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 07:11:57 AM »

OK.

Hillary is POTUS.

The House is solidly Democrat.

The Senate is solidly Democrat.

For the sake of argument, the Dem majority is as solid as the best majority that the Republicans have had recently.

What happens now?

Hillary care.  Great, its free.  But you wait for 4 hours behind 10 illegal aliens to get it at the family doctor.  A trip to Urgent care or the ER takes 12-24 hours.
Gun control.  Lots of it.
We'll still be in Iraq.  Why?  Because the left wing nutjobs running the Democrap party will be too busy pursuing thier liberal agenda to get anything useful done.
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 07:27:11 AM »

. . . Right now it's just sound and fury and the gnashing of teeth, but when we start getting hit with serious legislation and serious social restrictions that change our lives and our futures and those of the people we care about most, the games will be over . . .
Some of this is starting already . . . I've noticed more and more laws are affecting regular people directly and not just in the abstract . . . things like mandatory emissions tests on new cars . . . requiring new valves on existing propane tanks for your BBQ if you want them refilled . . . so called "McMansion" restrictions that limit even modest improvements to your own home . . . flush restrictions on toilets . . . mandated use of compact fluorescent bulbs . . . removal of effective bug killers like Diazinon and Dursban from the market . . . the push to collect sales taxes on out-of-state purchases . . . converting existing roads to toll roads . . .

You've heard the old story about boiling a frog? We're just barely on "low" now - wait until we get up to "simmer" . . .  sad
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 08:12:30 AM »

Political polarization of the conservative masses under a Democratic President and Congress will do nothing to make secession a likely event.

Angst with the government was FAR greater in the 1970s than it was today, fueled by the lingering effects of Vietnam, Watergate, and a protracted period of economic hardship.

Talk about how bits and pieces of the United States will start to break away under a Democratic administration have about as much potential for happening as did all those celebs actually leaving after Bush was relected in 2004.

Lots of big talk from Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, and others, but no actual exodus.
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« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2007, 08:17:16 AM »

Talk about how bits and pieces of the United States will start to break away under a Democratic administration have about as much potential for happening as did all those celebs actually leaving after Bush was relected in 2004.

Yep. It's been pointed out that Germans in the 1930s thought they were free. If people can living in the Third Reich honestly believed themselves free, what are the odds that a serious fraction of the populace would realize they had lost their freedom if the US turned into a full-fledged police state someday?

In other words, we probably wouldn't even have a revolution if soldiers started running checkpoints along all the major highways. We sure as heck aren't going to have any revolution over Hillarycare.

--Len.
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longeyes
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« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2007, 08:38:56 AM »

Quote
Angst with the government was FAR greater in the 1970s than it was today, fueled by the lingering effects of Vietnam, Watergate, and a protracted period of economic hardship.

I respectfully disagree.  While there were pockets of truly pissed-off people back then, the issue today is that half the country no longer believes in the values that got us here and that the people who control the major institutions of America would have been considered wild-eyed socialists forty years ago.  The mainstream American culture itself has changed, has been subverted.  We were pretty well united in waging The Cold War against the USSR; today the values of the USSR have been absorbed by our own elites.
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« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2007, 08:53:45 AM »

You're kidding, right?
Pissed off people included students and very large segments of the Black population, many of whom created riots on a scale we have not seen since.
Also included many Southerners who formed their own party.
As for the people who "control the major institutions" I have no idea who they might be.
But it should be some comfort that a McGovern couldn't run today, much less get the nomination.
And Nixon, that arch-conservative, probably added more alphabet agencies to the gov't than anyone since FDR.
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Paddy
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« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2007, 01:31:03 PM »

I think you completely missed longeyes point, Rabbi.
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« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2007, 01:44:38 PM »

I think you completely missed longeyes point, Rabbi.

No, I understood his point.  I think its dead wrong, but I understood it.
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longeyes
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« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2007, 03:42:13 PM »

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But it should be some comfort that a McGovern couldn't run today, much less get the nomination.

McGovern took one state and D.C.  How many will Hillary take?  How many would Obama take?  You are making my point: What was radical in 1972 is now mainstream.

Nixon was no more an "arch-conservative" than Bush.
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"Domari nolo."

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« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2007, 05:20:20 PM »

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What happens now?

I wake up screaming, covered in sweat.  Then I look at my signed photo from President Thompson's inauguration, and I settle down to sleep.
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« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2007, 05:44:59 PM »

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2012 Hillary is defeated in her reelection campaign

And we elect Jeb Bush

Quote
Nixon was no more an "arch-conservative" than Bush.
Nixon got us modern China which is poisoning our children and our food while deconstructing(SIC) our economy. Oh yeah, he reportedly hated handguns. And spent like a drunken lib creating lots of gov't programs we are still stuck with...some conservative he was.
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Out where there are miles and miles of miles and miles.
longeyes
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« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2007, 01:50:27 AM »

Carlyle sells stake to Abu Dhabi
By James Politi in New York
Published: September 20 2007 19:41 | Last updated: September 20 2007 19:41
Carlyle agreed on Thursday to sell a 7.5 per cent stake in itself to an arm of Abu Dhabis government  the latest US private equity group to bring in a sovereign wealth fund as a big investor.
Blackstone sold a near 10 per cent stake in its management company to the Chinese government in May. A different arm of the Abu Dhabi government bought a stake in Apollo Management in July. Selling stakes to international sovereign wealth funds has become a popular way for US buy-out groups to cash in on their booming businesses while expanding their influence in new markets. The Carlyle deal demonstrates that the credit squeeze has not halted such transactions.
Mubadala, the arm of Abu Dhabi which has invested in sectors as diverse as Libyan oil exploration and Ferrari, the Italian motor company, is paying $1.35bn for the Carlyle stake.
The deal was struck at a 10 per cent discount to a valuation of $20bn for all of Carlyle. The Washington-based buy-out group agreed to guarantee a floor to Mubadalas investment, pledging to compensate the arm of the oil-rich emirate if Carlyle goes public and the share price drops.
Carlyle co-founder David Rubenstein said, in an interview with the Financial Times, that the deal gave his firm more capital to invest in our funds and more flexibility in terms of deciding whether to go public.
Mr Rubenstein said the relationship with Mubadala could foster co-investments, although he did not identify any particular sectors. Several Gulf investors have invested heavily in Carlyle funds but the firm has not done many deals in the Middle East.
The investment comes as Carlyle faces pressure on Capitol Hill from lawmakers who want to impose a tax hike on the private equity industry.
The deal could also come under political scrutiny if Carlyle pursues sensitive takeovers in areas such as defence, technology or critical infrastructure.
Carlyle has alerted key lawmakers to the deal, including Chuck Schumer, the New York Senator, and Bush administration officials at the Committee on Foreign Investment in the US.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007
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« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2007, 01:57:04 AM »

Quote
2012 Hillary is defeated in her reelection campaign

And we elect Jeb Bush

Now that would be a nightmare

Quote
Nixon was no more an "arch-conservative" than Bush.
Quote
Nixon got us modern China which is poisoning our children and our food while deconstructing(SIC) our economy. Oh yeah, he reportedly hated handguns. And spent like a drunken lib creating lots of gov't programs we are still stuck with...some conservative he was.

OTOH, trading with them is way better than doing a cold war style nuclear arms race with them dontcha think?
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« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2007, 06:32:07 AM »

Quote
OTOH, trading with them is way better than doing a cold war style nuclear arms race with them dontcha think?

I for one yearn for the days of the Red and Iron curtain.

Where THEY could be Big Brother and anti freedom instead of the republicrats we have now installing cameras and telling kids to snitch on their parents and not letting high school kids thank God during their commencement speech.

Russia has "stay at home and have sex to make babies days" and we have very effective H'wood propaganda
telling us not to (or to have abortions)
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« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2007, 12:41:38 PM »

What happens now?

A new group of people begin crabbing about a new list of things, for up to eight years.
Those who threatened to move to ....uh.... Switzerland? if she was elected, don't.
All the things that really matter
    Family
    Friends
    Personal Health
    Spiritual Health
Continue to exist pretty much as they are now.

The constitution will still stand, no worse off than under any other past or present administration.

Hillary will get uglier and uglier.

Pretty much, same s#!t, continued, with a different face.

Soakers, realist.



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