Author Topic: ruh oh  (Read 15244 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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ruh oh
« on: September 27, 2007, 10:50:37 AM »
Towns Rethink Laws Against Illegal Immigrants
By KEN BELSON and JILL P. CAPUZZO

RIVERSIDE, N.J., Sept. 25  A little more than a year ago, the Township Committee in this faded factory town became the first municipality in New Jersey to enact legislation penalizing anyone who employed or rented to an illegal immigrant.

Within months, hundreds, if not thousands, of recent immigrants from Brazil and other Latin American countries had fled. The noise, crowding and traffic that had accompanied their arrival over the past decade abated.

The law had worked. Perhaps, some said, too well.

With the departure of so many people, the local economy suffered. Hair salons, restaurants and corner shops that catered to the immigrants saw business plummet; several closed. Once-boarded-up storefronts downtown were boarded up again.

Meanwhile, the town was hit with two lawsuits challenging the law. Legal bills began to pile up, straining the towns already tight budget. Suddenly, many people  including some who originally favored the law  started having second thoughts.

So last week, the town rescinded the ordinance, joining a small but growing list of municipalities nationwide that have begun rethinking such laws as their legal and economic consequences have become clearer.

I dont think people knew there would be such an economic burden, said Mayor George Conard, who voted for the original ordinance. A lot of people did not look three years out.

In the past two years, more than 30 towns nationwide have enacted laws intended to address problems attributed to illegal immigration, from overcrowded housing and schools to overextended police forces. Most of those laws, like Riversides, called for fines and even jail sentences for people who knowingly rented apartments to illegal immigrants or who gave them

Manedwolf

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 10:52:21 AM »
And crime? The article doesn't mention crime at all. Curious omission, that.

Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 12:03:02 PM »
Rest assured that factors unrelated to immigration have contributed greatly to the economic crunch, if there is one. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 12:31:03 PM »
BTW, Brazil? That sets off my BS alarm. A lot of people who seem to come from Brazil to the US are generally successful sorts, not sheer economic refugees. There's a significant Brazilian community in NH...and they run businesses and some fine, clean restaurants including a four-star Brazilian steakhouse. They also speak English quite well, and seem to have a sort of old-world aspect to the culture. Very nice people. In S. Florida, wealthy people from Brazil used to come to the malls and buy everything to take back with them.

Brazil is a democratic state with a reasonably good economy, its own domestic electronics industry now and some huge, modern business cities full of skyscrapers, malls and US brands, it's not a third-world country. Probably the only success story in South America. So talk of lots of immigrants from there fleeing a sweep on "illegals" just doesn't make sense.


Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 12:39:54 PM »
Last I heard, Brazil has a massive population of the dirt-poor.  Or am I confused? 
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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 12:44:40 PM »
I personally think the laws against renting to illegal immigrants are a bit much, and put too large of a burden on landlords, but I'm spot on with anyone that wants to penalize anyone that knowingly hires an illegal immigrant.

If the immigrant forged or otherwise stole an identity, I think that person should be responsible to the company or government for the fine, in addition to any charges with Identity Theft or forgery.
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roo_ster

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 07:02:03 PM »
Last I heard, Brazil has a massive population of the dirt-poor.  Or am I confused? 
Poor is relative.

"We didn't grow up poor, we grew up po', cause we couldn't afford the 'o' and the 'r.'  We were still better off than folks who were p'."  My old pastor during one of his sermons.

I think that there are gradiations in poor/rich. Brazil, while still having plenty of poor, is doing better than basketcases like haiti.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 07:15:20 PM »
A few links from Google.poverty.Brazil.  I guess it was Brazil I was thinking of. 


http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/english/regions/americas/bra/index.htm
Quote
Although Brazil is an important industrial power with the strongest economy in the Latin American region, poverty is still widespread in the country. According to some estimates, 50 per cent of the population is poor (or living on slightly less than US$2 per person per day). Brazil is second only to South Africa in the world ranking of income inequality.

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Americas/Brazil-POVERTY-AND-WEALTH.html

http://poverty2.forumone.com/library/view/8638/

http://wbln1018.worldbank.org/LAC/LAC.nsf/ECADocbyUnid/28840FED2FE42C2A85256E4D00661B68?Opendocument

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2710797.stm
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Euclidean

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 09:57:06 PM »
I love Brazilian women and pistols.

That is all.

Tallpine

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2007, 08:57:04 AM »
Wow, I didn't know there was anyplace that you could live on $2 a day  shocked
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Manedwolf

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2007, 09:00:51 AM »
Wow, I didn't know there was anyplace that you could live on $2 a day  shocked

Depends on "live". Possibly in some really rural villages, (Brazil is a HUGE country), but in the cities, COL is probably close to the US. Their malls have stores like Barnes & Noble, Ralph Lauren, Abercrombie & Fitch, etc. Armani has a big presence there.



Mall there, in Sao Paulo.

Quote
Totaling over 500 stores and services in 365.000 square meters of constructed area, 12 fully authorized vehicle and motorcycle dealers, 14 movie screens, 4 food courts, 3 supermarkets, 2 home centers, leisure area, a Detran unit and much more in an area of 1 million square meters.

Not $2 a day. (Wow, that sounds just like here, that kinda mall, doesn't it?)  smiley

They may have some poor areas, but in general, they're the antithesis of most of South America, especially the failed or failing third-world socialist states like Venezuela and Bolivia.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2007, 09:10:36 AM »
i'm waiting for supporters of "le cause" to explain  how the same economic and social events won't happen if they get their way with the immigration"final solution" they wish for. or how those event wil somehow be good things.  don't all jump at once now

Manedwolf

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2007, 09:11:39 AM »
i'm waiting for supporters of "le cause" to explain  how the same economic and social events won't happen if they get their way with the immigration"final solution" they wish for. or how those event wil somehow be good things.  don't all jump at once now

How about providing some "before" and "after" crime statistics on the city in your original post?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2007, 10:21:56 AM »
i'd love to  any help will be appreciated. might have to wait for next reporting period. 

this remark from the mayor i like though
"I dont think people knew there would be such an economic burden, said Mayor George Conard, who voted for the original ordinance. A lot of people did not look three years out.

Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2007, 12:45:45 PM »
i'm waiting for supporters of "le cause" to explain  how the same economic and social events won't happen if they get their way with the immigration"final solution" they wish for. or how those event wil somehow be good things.  don't all jump at once now 


Do you support anything that improves the economy?  Would any downsides of illegal immigration outweigh the alleged economic benefits? 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2007, 12:51:55 PM »
yes  but the downsides have to be real. not reprocessed sturmfront drivel

Manedwolf

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2007, 02:09:39 PM »
yes  but the downsides have to be real. not reprocessed sturmfront drivel

I guess over 70% of the American population must be white supremacists, then. Wow, the blacks, Hispanics and Asians are sure going to be surprised that they're white supremacists!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2007, 02:15:59 PM »
interesting number 70 %   care to explain it?

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 07:33:36 AM »
If you kick all the illegal immigrants out, then someone has to clean the bathrooms, work in restaurants and mow lawns.

Who would do these jobs?  Native-born teenagers who did these jobs 20 years ago and now sitting on the couch getting fat and bitching about how no one is giving them enough.

I don't see how America can work without illegal immigration, but am willing to listen. angel
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Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2007, 07:36:55 AM »
If you kick all the illegal immigrants out, then someone has to clean the bathrooms, work in restaurants and mow lawns.  Who would do these jobs?  Native-born teenagers who did these jobs 20 years ago and now sitting on the couch getting fat and b***hing about how no one is giving them enough.

Of course, we could also cut down on govt. handouts.  As it is, unskilled adult Americans won't do the drudge work, because welfare is often a better option for them. 
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doczinn

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2007, 03:33:14 PM »
There are, in fact, a lot of Brazilians here illegally. The difference is that in most cases they do not intend to live here, just overstay their visas by a year or 3, then go home.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2007, 04:27:47 PM »
the silence from anyone vis a vis one of the early towns that attempted anti immigrant laws reversing their position is amusing. if the results on a small scale hurt so bad so quick what do you guys emote a large scale application will do?

Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 04:56:23 PM »
So, since we've allowed people into the country illegally for so long that, supposedly, our economy is now dependent on them - we have to keep doing it? 

The point is that economic benefits of illegal immigration are really not relevant.  You're not actually worried about us surviving the exodus of illegals, are you?  We can take care of ourselves. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 05:06:39 PM »
got kids?  i wanna do more than survive

Perd Hapley

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Re: ruh oh
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2007, 06:36:46 PM »
Oh sure, my kids will live in poverty because we don't have enough illegals.    rolleyes
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