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Author Topic: Hillary proposes yet another boneheaded steal-from-rich entitlement...  (Read 7982 times)
Manedwolf
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« on: October 09, 2007, 05:02:20 AM »

At this point, is anyone just willing to stand up in front of her and say "Mrs. Clinton, sorry, but what the ___ are you smoking, and where can I get some?"  angry
Quote
WEBSTER CITY, Iowa (AP)  Every citizen could get a 401(k) retirement account and up to $1,000 in annual matching funds from the government under a plan offered Tuesday by Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton.

At a cost of $20 billion-$25 billion a year, the plan is Clinton's largest domestic proposal other than her plan for universal health insurance. The New York senator said it would be paid for by taxing estates worth more than $7 million per couple and would help narrow the gap between the rich and those who don't have enough savings for retirement.

Because the rich entrepreneurs are bad! Punish them!  rolleyes
(Gee, why are they all moving to other countries all of a sudden? Hey, all the rich people are going to Dubai! Why'd that happen?)

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gwh1yWEEzXGeI2MmaJbGPANgGVwwD8S5R2AG0
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wmenorr67
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 05:28:42 AM »

Never met a tax she didn't like.

Of course privatized Social Security is not an option.

Well Bill may not have inhaled but I am pretty sure that his wife still is.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 05:52:13 AM »

Never met a tax she didn't like.

Of course privatized Social Security is not an option.

Well Bill may not have inhaled but I am pretty sure that his wife still is.

Quote
"We have to fight and finally bury the idea of privatizing Social Security," she said.



Taxxxxxesss....Precciouss....
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MechAg94
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 06:02:24 AM »

That is because the basic idea of privatizing SS is so that eventually, the govt can stop doing it.  Or at least get out of the business of managing it.  Govt management efficiency being what it is. 


Maybe instead of this, she could propose that 1% of SS be put in a 401K account so people can better save for retirement.  Oh wait, that has been proposed already by someone......Smiley
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HankB
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 06:29:35 AM »

Quote
. . . taxing estates worth more than $7 million per couple . . .
So Hillary wants to increase the death tax and reduce the amount people pass on to their own heirs?

I'm running out of words other than <expletive>, <expletive>, and <expletive> to describe what I think of her . . . words like "odious,"  "grotesque," and "despicable" are so inadequate . . .

(BTW, sadly, estates in my family are well under $7,000,000 . . . )
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 06:36:54 AM »

She is trying to get all the votes, all electable politicians campaign on empty promises. I do see her, if elected, raising taxes to pre 1950's levels to fund universal health care. The scary part is that probably health care will only be free for people under a certain income bracket and I'll probably make $5k too much each year to be included but be taxed at 50%.

-C
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 06:37:00 AM »

Quote
. . . taxing estates worth more than $7 million per couple . . .
So Hillary wants to increase the death tax and reduce the amount people pass on to their own heirs?

I'm running out of words other than <expletive>, <expletive>, and <expletive> to describe what I think of her . . . words like "odious,"  "grotesque," and "despicable" are so inadequate . . .

(BTW, sadly, estates in my family are well under $7,000,000 . . . )

That also pretty much kills old-money families which may be land-rich but investment-poor. They can't afford the additional tax burden, so tend to lose the home that's been in their family for generations...or are forced to sell off what's left of the land, leaving the now-familiar vista of a grand old manor home or Victorian absolutely surrounded by bland subdivisions covering former rolling hils, orchards and meadows. And then they're taxed on the home's square footage, so they can't even afford to maintain it...and it eventually gets owned by the state and has tourists tromping through it, the original family having faded from the scene.

New money will just pack it in and move to places like Dubai and invest there and in the Pacific Rim, places more conducive to the rich doing their business.

Being rich is bad, y'know, to her sort. Unless you're her. Then it's okay.

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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 09:27:35 AM »

Think about it for a sec... Doesn't it make you wonder why the number is 7 million and not something nice and round like 5 or 10 million?

Five bucks and a hamburger says her "family estate" is worth somewhere in the 5-6 mil range.

Brad
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 09:52:40 AM »

Think about it for a sec... Doesn't it make you wonder why the number is 7 million and not something nice and round like 5 or 10 million?

Five bucks and a hamburger says her "family estate" is worth somewhere in the 5-6 mil range.

Brad

What if I'm a creepy vegan?  grin 

I think it more likely that the number was chosen on the basis of coverage vs outcry (a.k.a. How many people can we ensnare without raising holy heck?)
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Brad Johnson
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 09:58:47 AM »

Quote
I think it more likely that the number was chosen on the basis of coverage vs outcry (a.k.a. How many people can we ensnare without raising holy heck?)

You presume she actually cares about something or someone other than herself.  Fat chance on that.


Quote
What if I'm a creepy vegan?  grin

Then make it five bucks and a stick of celery.

Brad
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It's all about the pancakes, people.
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 10:20:08 AM »

I don't understand why anybody is surprised by this.  She's been a hardcore Marxist for 40 years. We'll see if the spinelessrepublicans grow a backbone when she's in the Whitehouse. They serve us so much better when they're the minority opposition party.
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El Tejon
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 10:22:49 AM »

I have no doubt that if she is elected she will begin to confiscate my IRAs and SEPs in order to pay for Big Momma government.  I cannot believe the Left has not yet begun to agitate against Roth IRAs.  All that tax free money that they cannot touch.  It's got to be killing them.

If you have 7 mil or over in your estate, you already have a tax attorney on retainer who is advising you one how to get around the estate tax.  How would yet another avoidable tax help her socialistic dreams?
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Standing Wolf
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 11:59:31 AM »

Krushchev is laughing himself silly in his grave.
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 12:06:34 PM »

The lady (sic) will say anything to any group.  Her objective is power and she will do/say whatever is necessary to accrete power.  I fully expect her to throw some kind of bone to the Second Amendment crowd just to cover her bases. 
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MechAg94
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 02:09:40 PM »

The lady (sic) will say anything to any group.  Her objective is power and she will do/say whatever is necessary to accrete power.  I fully expect her to throw some kind of bone to the Second Amendment crowd just to cover her bases. 
And some fool gun owners will eat it up. 

Hell, it worked for Bill and his middle class tax cut BS.  It will work for Hillary. 

Did anyone else notice that in that campaign, Bill Clinton never once said he would get a middle class tax cut passed without qualifying it with all sorts of BS.  It was obvious to me yet a lot of people ate it up and were upset when he backed out on it. 
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StopTheGrays
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2007, 08:05:11 AM »

The lady (sic) will say anything to any group.  Her objective is power and she will do/say whatever is necessary to accrete power.  I fully expect her to throw some kind of bone to the Second Amendment crowd just to cover her bases. 
And some fool gun owners will eat it up. 

Hell, it worked for Bill and his middle class tax cut BS.  It will work for Hillary. 

Did anyone else notice that in that campaign, Bill Clinton never once said he would get a middle class tax cut passed without qualifying it with all sorts of BS.  It was obvious to me yet a lot of people ate it up and were upset when he backed out on it. 
Didn't he work on the budget for less than a week before declaring he could not do a cut but had to raise taxes? This was after saying something to the effect he would not rest quit until he came up with a budget with tax cuts. I seem to remember that from the end of 1993.
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Tallpine
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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2007, 08:37:32 AM »

Quote
That also pretty much kills old-money families which may be land-rich but investment-poor. They can't afford the additional tax burden, so tend to lose the home that's been in their family for generations...or are forced to sell off what's left of the land, leaving the now-familiar vista of a grand old manor home or Victorian absolutely surrounded by bland subdivisions covering former rolling hils, orchards and meadows.

Even worse ii what it does to family farms/ranches.  Especially when the govt values their land at "subdivision" prices ten times higher than what's it's worth for agricultural use.  angry

Practically guarantees that the land will be subdivided then ...  angry
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2007, 08:39:12 AM »

Quote
That also pretty much kills old-money families which may be land-rich but investment-poor. They can't afford the additional tax burden, so tend to lose the home that's been in their family for generations...or are forced to sell off what's left of the land, leaving the now-familiar vista of a grand old manor home or Victorian absolutely surrounded by bland subdivisions covering former rolling hils, orchards and meadows.

Even worse ii what it does to family farms/ranches.  Especially when the govt values their land at "subdivision" prices ten times higher than what's it's worth for agricultural use.  angry

Practically guarantees that the land will be subdivided then ...  angry

That's been happening a lot here, since the old farms and orchards tend to have really nice views, and are thus high-valued land. The farmhouse even moreso, since that was built on the highest point to avoid flooding and to give a good view of the farm.

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Headless Thompson Gunner
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2007, 10:35:46 AM »

Quote
That also pretty much kills old-money families which may be land-rich but investment-poor. They can't afford the additional tax burden, so tend to lose the home that's been in their family for generations...or are forced to sell off what's left of the land, leaving the now-familiar vista of a grand old manor home or Victorian absolutely surrounded by bland subdivisions covering former rolling hils, orchards and meadows.

Even worse ii what it does to family farms/ranches.  Especially when the govt values their land at "subdivision" prices ten times higher than what's it's worth for agricultural use.  angry

Practically guarantees that the land will be subdivided then ...  angry
The government (and the real estate market in general) values "subdivision" ground higher because it's worth more.  It ain't the valuation that makes that ground get snatched up by developers, it's the fact that it has development potential.  It would get snatched up even if it weren't taxed higher.  In fact, it would probably get snatched up faster if it wasn't taxed higher.

Consider that the nation's largest purchaser of corn fields is Wal Mart.  There may be crops on the ground when the Wally World execs sign the deed, but that doesn't mean the property is worth farmland prices.
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Tallpine
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 11:12:30 AM »

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The government (and the real estate market in general) values "subdivision" ground higher because it's worth more.

That's not really true, at least around here.

Nobody is going to buy 10-30 square miles of remote land for say, $2000 an acre.  Not all at once anyway.  Now, if you built a bunch of roads (in rough country) and filed for easements to access every 80 acre parcel (any smaller and you have to go through a whole bunch of other govt hoops), then eventually you could get that price for the whole thing. (after several years, minus all your development and marketing expenses)

As range land, it's worth maybe $250 acre.  Still, that's a lot of money to pay for a place that might support one family at say $30-50K net/yr.  That's on a good year, when beef prices are up and you don't lose too many animals to disease, calf mortality, coyotes, wolves, cougars, lightning, flood, drought, and numerous other ways that a cow finds to commit suicide.

So what happens is some fairly poor (by modern standards) family that has owned a ranch for 80-100 years has to sell it to pay the taxes on $12.8 million, rather than maybe the $2 million that it's worth for land and improvements as a ranch. (unless they have made some arrangements like incorporation prior to the elders' demise)
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2007, 01:16:18 PM »

Strangely, these 'death tax'-mandated sales of 'family farms' are never located when evidence is demanded.

Let's not pretend that anyone with "$2mn" worth of land anywhere is a "fairly poor" family by any stretch of the imagination - that places them well within the 95th percentile of estates.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 01:29:30 PM »

Strangely, these 'death tax'-mandated sales of 'family farms' are never located when evidence is demanded.

Let's not pretend that anyone with "$2mn" worth of land anywhere is a "fairly poor" family by any stretch of the imagination - that places them well within the 95th percentile of estates.

Yes, punish those darned rich people! Tongue
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Tallpine
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2007, 11:47:45 PM »

Quote
Let's not pretend that anyone with "$2mn" worth of land anywhere is a "fairly poor" family by any stretch of the imagination - that places them well within the 95th percentile of estates.

Tell that to my neighbors who live in a little old house and drive old cars.  angry
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2007, 01:00:47 AM »

AAAARG! Now she wants to f-up the INTERNET with government bureaucracy, too!
Quote
Called "Connect America," Clinton's broadband network would give businesses incentives to go into underserved areas, support state- and local-based initiatives and change the Federal Communication Commission rules to more accurately measure Internet access.

"I see this problem in New York. A lot of the utilities don't want to connect up our isolated, rural areas. And they also don't want particularly to go into our underserved, poor, urban areas because there's so much money that can be made in Manhattan and our suburban areas," Clinton said.

Imagine what she would do if she actually got into office!!!!
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 01:03:58 AM »

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Let's not pretend that anyone with "$2mn" worth of land anywhere is a "fairly poor" family by any stretch of the imagination - that places them well within the 95th percentile of estates.

Tell that to my neighbors who live in a little old house and drive old cars.  angry

Ditto on the family farmer here in Iowa, you might own 4-5 million worth of land (1000 acres currently selling for $4-5k an acre) but you are only netting less than 40k take home pay.

Probably making payments on the land so if you had to liquidate you won't have a 4-5 million dollar check in your hand.

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