Author Topic: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry  (Read 6667 times)

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« on: October 22, 2007, 07:23:54 AM »
Good news.  Will you hear it on ABC. NBC, CBS. NPR, MSNBC, CNN?  I know I won't, because I don't to them.

Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
By Aseel Kami
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSCOL24813120071022?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true


BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent since the end of June, when U.S. forces completed their build-up of 30,000 extra troops to stabilize the war-torn country, the Interior Ministry said on Monday.

The ministry released the new figures as bomb blasts in Baghdad and the northern city of Mosul killed five people and six gunmen died in clashes with police in the holy Shi'ite city of Kerbala south of the Iraqi capital.

Washington began dispatching reinforcements to Iraq in February to try to buy Iraq's feuding political leaders time to reach a political accommodation to end violence between majority Shi'ites and minority Sunni Arabs that has killed tens of thousands and forced millions from their homes.

While the leaders have failed to agree on key laws aimed at reconciling the country's warring sects, the troop buildup has succeeded in quelling violence.

Under the plan, U.S. troops left their large bases and set up combat outposts in neighborhoods while launching a series of summer offensives against Sunni Islamist al Qaeda, other Sunni Arab militants and Shi'ite militias in the Baghdad beltway.

Interior Ministry spokesman Major-General Abdul-Karim Khalaf told reporters that there had been a 70 percent decrease in violence countrywide in the three months from July to September over the previous quarter.

GRADUAL IMPROVEMENT

In Baghdad, considered the epicenter of the violence because of its mix of Shi'ites and Sunni Arabs, car bombs had decreased by 67 percent and roadside bombs by 40 percent, he said. There had also been a 28 percent decline in the number of bodies found dumped in the capital's streets.

In Anbar, a former insurgent hotbed where Sunni Arab tribes have joined U.S. forces against al Qaeda, there has been an 82 percent drop in violent deaths.

"These figures show a gradual improvement in controlling the security situation," Khalaf said.

However, in the northern province of Nineveh, where many al Qaeda and other Sunni Arab militants fled to escape the crackdown in Baghdad and surrounding region, there had been a 129 percent rise in car bombings and a corresponding 114 percent increase in the number of people killed in violence.

While the figures confirm U.S. data showing a positive trend in combating al Qaeda bombers, there is growing instability in southern Iraq, where rival Shi'ite factions are fighting for political dominance.

Police said six gunmen were killed in police raids in Kerbala, 110 km (70 miles) southwest of Baghdad.

Some 50 people were killed in Kerbala in August in fierce clashes between fighters loyal to Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and local police, who are seen as aligned to the rival Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council's armed wing, the Badr Organization.

After the clashes, Sadr said he was imposing a six-month freeze on the activities of the Mehdi Army, increasingly seen as beyond his control, so that he could reorganize it.

In Baghdad, three roadside bombs killed four people, including three policemen, while in Mosul one policeman was killed when a blast hit a police patrol.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2007, 07:42:28 AM »
That can't possibly be true.  Everyone knows this war is unwinnable.  We've already lost.  This story is obviously a Bushco propaganda plot cooked up by Karl Rove.  I don't care that he retired, he's still manipulating things behind the scenes.

No blood for oil.  Haliburton!  Impeach Bush!!

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,818
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2007, 08:44:52 AM »
Proof positive-the Iraq war is a great success.  We'll all look back on this period in ten years with pride and call it one of the greatest achievements in foreign relations histoy.

No doubt the Islamic Dawa party, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, and Hizbullah in Iraq will all be pro-American, democracy supporting forces by then. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

The Viking

  • Guest
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 12:07:27 PM »
Good to hear. With a little luck, we up here in the cold north won't have to suffer from all the anchor "children". Many of those who show up are certainly NOT children.
God, I hate many of my countrymen sometimes.

CAnnoneer

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,136
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 12:25:51 PM »
God, I hate many of my countrymen sometimes.

"A dead enemy always smells pleasingly, especially when he is a compatriot." Emperor Vitellius, battlefield at Bedriacum, 69 A.D.

The Viking

  • Guest
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 12:29:20 PM »
God, I hate many of my countrymen sometimes.

"A dead enemy always smells pleasingly, especially when he is a compatriot." Emperor Vitellius, battlefield at Bedriacum, 69 A.D.
Bah. Too long for a nice tattoo laugh

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 12:50:55 PM »
Why, a party with a vested interest in announcing that the situation is improving says it's improving? Whoda thunk?

and yet one must wonder where that '70%' number is derived, given that...

"In Baghdad, considered the epicenter of the violence because of its mix of Shi'ites and Sunni Arabs, car bombs had decreased by 67 percent and roadside bombs by 40 percent, he said. There had also been a 28 percent decline in the number of bodies found dumped in the capital's streets.

However, in the northern province of Nineveh, where many al Qaeda and other Sunni Arab militants fled to escape the crackdown in Baghdad and surrounding region, there had been a 129 percent rise in car bombings and a corresponding 114 percent increase in the number of people killed in violence.

While the figures confirm U.S. data showing a positive trend in combating al Qaeda bombers, there is growing instability in southern Iraq, where rival Shi'ite factions are fighting for political dominance."
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 01:29:27 PM »
Why, a party with a vested interest in announcing that the situation is improving says it's improving? Whoda thunk?
Heh.  How is that any worse than the other party, the one with a vested interest in the United States' defeat?  They've been pushing their "we've-already-lost-the-war-Bush-is-stupid" agenda ever since the war began, despite the notable evidence to the contrary. 

Talk to the people who have actually been to Iraq.  They'll almost certainly say that the reporting on Iraq here in the States is flat out wrong.  Michael Yon is just about the only "official journalist" type to note this, and to try to report things the way they really are.

The war has been going fairly well all along, and now even the leftist news media can't deny that fact.  The truth is slowly coming out.

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 01:36:19 PM »
Quote
How is that any worse than the other party, the one with a vested interest in the United States' defeat?
I don't see any quotes from Democrats there. Crazy, isn't it?

Quote
Talk to the people who have actually been to Iraq.
Why would I do that?

Quote
The war has been going fairly well all along, and now even the leftist news media can't deny that fact.
Pardon my gut laugh.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,818
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 02:42:54 PM »

The war has been going fairly well all along, and now even the leftist news media can't deny that fact.  The truth is slowly coming out.

How do you feel about the fact that increased stability in Iraq will mean that Islamic Dawa, Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, and Hizbullah in Iraq will have a functioning economy and government with which to obtain funds for their armies?

Do you think that these parties will be favorable to American interests? If so, why?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2007, 02:50:56 PM »
fun with numbers, volume two:

77 American soldiers killed in September 2006, 71 in September 2007.
87 killed in August 2007, 70 in August 2006
86 killed in July 2007, 51 in July 2006
111 killed in June 2007, 61 in June 2006.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,334
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 02:52:55 PM »
And how do you interpret those figures? 

Is there a typo in your first set of numbers? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2007, 03:31:58 PM »
Wooderson;
Where did you find these numbers?

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2007, 06:50:11 PM »
A friend had them on his blog, from globalsecurity.org. He did indeed transpose the Septembers, I believe.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

longrifleman

  • New Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2007, 09:26:50 AM »
Another likely reason for drops in local violence is the success of the various groups in killing or running off their unwanted neighbors. Reports I've seen show about two million displaced Iraqis, half inside and half outside the country. Add in the dead, and the results are pretty effective ethnic cleansing.

Nobody on either side of this issue wants this pointed out, for obvious reasons.

Matt King

  • New Member
  • Posts: 34
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 04:50:44 PM »
All this proves, is that at current troop levels we can bring some stability to the country. How long are you willing to maintain troop levels? What happens when we pull back?

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 05:10:33 PM »
All this proves, is that at current troop levels we can bring some stability to the country. How long are you willing to maintain troop levels? What happens when we pull back?
We lose, obviously! 

In fact, we've already lost.  We were destined to lose from the beginning.  Honestly, how could anyone win a war anywhere?  Our current success is just a temporary reprieve from the everlasting suckiness of the United States.  It cannot possibly last.  The only thing more sucky than the Unites States is George Bush.

Down with Bushco!!

 cheesy

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 05:39:22 PM »
Quote
In fact, we've already lost.  We were destined to lose from the beginning.  Honestly, how could anyone win a war anywhere?  Our current success is just a temporary reprieve from the everlasting suckiness of the United States.  It cannot possibly last.  The only thing more sucky than the Unites States is George Bush.
I am so glad the American government didn't feel that way right after December 7, 1941.

I am sure that if we can beat the Japan, Germany, and Italy at the same time, we should be able to beat a bunch of Arabs.

Phyphor

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,327
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 07:21:51 PM »
The problem with comparing this war with previous ones is this: We're not fighting a standing army, we're fighting a fairly loosely organized bunch of terrorists. 

It's difficult to know just when you've actually "won" simply because anyone over there could be a enemy.  Hell, they can switch sides just on a whim, it seems like...

"You know what's messed-up about taxes?
You don't even pay taxes. They take tax.
You get your check, money gone.
That ain't a payment, that's a jack." - Chris Rock "Bigger and Blacker"
He slapped his rifle. "This is one of the best arguments for peace there is. Nobody wants to shoot if somebody is going to shoot back. " Callaghen, Callaghen, Louis La'mour

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 07:30:08 PM »
Anyone see the latest polls of Iraqis - something like three-quarters want us out in a year (this number has been steadily climbing since fall 2003... when they wanted us out by fall 2004), half want an immediate withdrawal and a little less than 60% don't see a problem with attacks on US forces.

Lemme tell you, we're making real progress in Iraq.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 07:32:22 PM »
oh, and 70% of the Iraqis think the surge was a failure.

Clearly, they're part of the Demo'rat'-hate-America-conspiracy-to-make-George-Bush-look-bad program.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,334
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2007, 08:17:06 PM »
Who do I believe?  Wooderson, or the people who produce the same polls and studies with opposite results.   rolleyes


Public opinion from anywhere in the Middle East can go and suck eggs. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2007, 12:22:35 PM »
There are 'polls and studies' of the Iraqi people with 'opposite results'? I'd love to see them - the polls I referenced were a joint effort between the Beeb, a Japanese news group and one in the US I believe.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2007, 06:22:55 PM »
I want us to leave Iraq too.  I want the war to be over as much as anyone.

Of course, I also want to spend my rent money on new guns.  I want to jump off a skyscraper to experience the feeling of weightlessness.  I want to quit my job and go on a never ending vacation with my fiancee, and charge the whole thing to my credit card.  I want to do all this, but obviously that doesn't mean any of this is a good idea. 

Likewise, as much as I and you and the Iraqis all want to end the war, most of us realize sending the troops home now is a Very Bad Idea.

Nobody wants to fight a war.  We don't do it because we want to.  We don't do it because we enjoy it.  We do it because it's necessary, because even though it's an awful thing it's better than the alternative.

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,818
Re: Good News. Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2007, 06:35:11 PM »
Headless,

When will it be time to bring the troops home from Iraq? What conditions will signify victory?

Because as it stands, more stability in Iraq today just means that the Mahdi Army, the Iranian trained Badr Corps, and Hizbullah in Iraq have a stable source of income in the form of the Iraqi government.  So I'd like to know how more stability in Iraq can be construed as a victory, if that's what you mean to say.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."