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Author Topic: 'DREAM' grant of legality to millions on fast track for vote tomorrow  (Read 10295 times)
Desertdog
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« on: October 23, 2007, 10:54:03 AM »

INVASION USA
Reid reviving 'amnesty' for illegals
'DREAM' grant of legality to millions on fast track for vote tomorrow
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58290



Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., is reviving and fast-tracking plans to grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens already within U.S. boundaries, and a vote is expected as early as tomorrow, according to opponents.

Just a few months after intense pressure from U.S. citizens triggered the rejection of President Bush's comprehensive immigration plan, a compromise supported by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.  the DREAM Act proposal by Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill.  is being rushed through the Senate.

Durbin's office refused to return a WND call requesting comment.

"In many ways this bill is worse than Bush-Kennedy because this is blatant deception on the part of the Senate to get a massive amnesty passed," asserted Steve Elliott, president of Grassfire.org.

Some of the provisions of the plan, called DREAM for Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors, include:


Conditional legal status for any illegal alien who claims to have arrived in the U.S. prior to age 16.

Any illegal alien can apply for the program.

Those who gain legal status then can sponsor any family members, allowing additional millions to access the program.

There would be a ban on deportation for anyone who applies.

Illegals would be granted taxpayer-funded in-state tuition rates for college.
Elliott's organization and others, including Numbers USA, have launched telephone, online and fax petitions for voters to contact their senators and let them know their opinions on the plan.

"This is not a drill. This is the real thing," Numbers USA warned in an alert to constituents. "Our Capitol Hill Team just contacted me and reported that Senate Majority Leader Reid has just filed for 'cloture' on S. 2205 (the DREAM ACT amnesty.)"

"Reid is hell-bent on getting this amnesty through the Senate as fast as possible and before we can fully mobilize the country as happened when we defeated his Comprehensive Amnesty bill in June," the group said. "He is using the Rule 14 & to avoid any committee debate, hearings or deliberations. Filing for cloture means that he can bring the amnesty up on Wednesday."

An estimated 12-20 million illegal aliens are already in the U.S., but Numbers USA warned the legislation would "entice millions more people to become illegal aliens here."

Further, the plan includes "no extra enforcement" to provide any stability or security to national borders, the group said.

In a commentary, Eagle Forum founder Phyllis Schlafly said it creates the circumstances where the violation of U.S. immigration law is rewarded.

"The illegal immigrant who applies for the DREAM Act can count his years under conditional green card status toward the five years needed to attain citizenship. That's a fast track to citizenship that is not available to aliens who are lawfully present in the United States," she said. "Giving in-state college tuition to illegal immigrants is so unpopular with many Americans that the only way a congressman could support this bill is by hoping it passes before the public discovers how bad it is. Arizona's Proposition 300, which specifically bars Arizona universities from giving in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants, passed in 2006 with a majority of 71.4 percent."

As WND reported, Durbin brought up the DREAM Act after Bush's comprehensive plan died in June.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 12:19:26 AM »

Can't guarantee a socialist agenda unless you import lots more poverty to guarantee people who will vote for it!

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longeyes
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 03:09:42 AM »

There's a regiment of pols who won't quit until they get their nefarious way.  It behooves us to make sure these people are removed from politics if we want to keep our country.  These stealthy ways of achieving amnesty are going to lead to massive social unrest in the not so distant future.  A lot of people are getting very tired of having their views ignored by the elitists.
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HankB
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 03:52:24 AM »

With EVERY poll showing 70%-85% opposition to amnesty for illegals, the fact that politicians still keep pushing this makes me wonder how much of the money that's flowing to the land of Vincente Fox Philippe Calderon is making its way back under the table to our <expletive> "leaders" . . .
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Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Those who work for a living are being BURIED by those who vote for a living.
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Desertdog
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 07:57:50 AM »

DREAM Act fails to clear cloture hurdle 
By Klaus Marre 
October 24, 2007 
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dream-act-fails-to-clear-cloture-hurdle-2007-10-24.html

A bill that would allow some children of illegal immigrants to embark on a path toward legal status stalled in the Senate Wednesday, likely ending the hopes of immigration reformers to pass major legislation on the issue this year.

Supporters of the DREAM Act fell well short of the 60 votes needed to end debate on the legislation. In the end, 52 senators, including Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), Barack Obama (Ill.) and Joseph Biden (Del.), voted in favor of the DREAM Act, while 44 senators opposed the measure.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has received a lot of criticism from his partys base for his work on comprehensive immigration reform, did not vote. Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), who is also running for president, likewise did not vote.

The DREAM Act would allow some children of illegal immigrants to go to college or join the military. The measure was part of broader immigration legislation that stalled in the Senate earlier this year.

Until we can once again move forward on comprehensive reform, we should at the very least enact the DREAM Act, said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) ahead of the vote.

The DREAM Act recognizes that children should not be penalized for the actions of their parents.

Reid noted that he had met students from his home state whose future would be limitless with the DREAM Act.

Without it, their hope is diminished, Reid said. What a waste it is to make it more difficult for children to go to college or get jobs, when they could be making meaningful contributions to their communities and to our country.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said he opposed the bill because it would reward illegal behavior.

He criticized Democrats for bringing up a divisive issue when much other work remains to be done before the end of the year. McConnell also argued that immigration should not be addressed without also promoting border and interior security.

While some Republicans opposed the DREAM Act because they view it as a step toward amnesty, others voted against cloture because they object to addressing immigration piece by piece.

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) argued that cherry-picking some immigration provisions would not be useful and would only contribute to a patchwork of national, state and local immigration laws.

I believe that the DREAM Act is a good act and I believe its purposes are beneficial and I think it ought to be enacted, Specter said. But I have grave reservations about seeing a part of comprehensive immigration reform go forward because it weakens our position to get a comprehensive bill.

The White House echoed Specters concerns in a Statement of Administrative Policy.

Immigration is one of the top concerns of the American people  and of this administration  but it needs to be addressed in a comprehensive and balanced way that avoids creating incentives for problems in the future, the statement said.
 
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longeyes
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 10:05:22 AM »

The people who want amnesty won't be satisfied until this ends in some form of civil war.  And if Hillary and her minions take power that is probably exactly what we're going to get.

The DREAM Act recognizes that children should not be penalized for the actions of their parents.

And children should not be rewarded for the illegal actions of their parents either.  Nor should American citizens be penalized.
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"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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CAnnoneer
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 04:13:43 PM »

The failure of DREAM today is a major victory for sanity. It is a big psychological coup. However, I doubt the pro-illegals will quit any time soon. They'll lick their wounds for awhile and hungrily wait for Hitlery to get elected.
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LAK
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 11:08:25 PM »

Or a Libertarian party candidate; in which case they won't need an amnesty. Should anyone wearing a republican suit other than Ron Paul be nominated and elected the border will dissappear with the NAU regardless.

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Manedwolf
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 12:11:57 AM »

Or a Libertarian party candidate; in which case they won't need an amnesty. Should anyone wearing a republican suit other than Ron Paul be nominated and elected the border will dissappear with the NAU regardless.

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http://ussliberty.org
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Please stop hijacking every thread to promote your political messiah. This is something that Paulians do on every forum from guns to vehicles to recipes to YouTube home videos, and it's...
REALLY ANNOYING.
and makes everyone NOT want to vote for him.

kthnx.

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Sindawe
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Vashneesht


« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 01:25:19 AM »

Manedwolf, such hijack take two to accomplish.  If folks would ignore my fellow Paulistas proselytizing, maybe they'd keep it in relevant threads. Wink

I'm glad that the SURRENDER EL NORTE DREAM act has failed for now.  Like others I don't doubt those who support such travesty will give up so easily though.
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 05:42:21 AM »

With EVERY poll showing 70%-85% opposition to amnesty for illegals, the fact that politicians still keep pushing this makes me wonder how much of the money that's flowing to the land of Vincente Fox Philippe Calderon is making its way back under the table to our <expletive> "leaders" . . .


i realize that accuracy is secondary to rhetoric but..
Attitudes Toward Amnesty
Zogby Poll Examines Support Among
Different Constituencies

September 2001

by Steven A. Camarota

Download the pdf version


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During their summit in early September, presidents Vicente Fox of Mexico and George W. Bush of United States discussed an amnesty for illegal Mexican immigrants in the United States. While at first both presidents indicated that giving legal status to illegals would be a long process that might take years to implement, in the course of their summit they both indicated that they wanted things to move quickly. Moreover, on September 7 the Senate judiciary committee held a hearing on Mexican immigration. Senators from both parties indicated their support for granting amnesty in some fashion to illegals from Mexico.

The Zogby poll reported on in this Backgrounder was one of the first to examine in detail how various segments of the population would view an amnesty. Using neutral language, the Zogby International poll of likely voters also explores how supporting an amnesty might affect votes for President Bush and members of Congress in the future among different groups of constituents. While overall the poll finds little support for an amnesty, it does show some significant differences among groups. The strongest opposition is found among conservatives, moderates, union households, and voters with lower incomes. Among the findings:

Consistent with other polls, the Zogby poll finds that the majority of Americans (55 percent) think that an amnesty is a bad or very bad idea compared to 34 percent who think it is a good or very good idea.
 

The strongest opposition to amnesty can be found among conservatives, with 60 percent thinking it is a bad or very bad idea compared to 26 percent who think it is a good or very good idea. Perhaps most troubling for the president, almost one-third of all conservatives (32 percent) indicated that they would be less likely to vote for Bush if he supported an amnesty, while only 10 percent said they would be more likely to vote for him.
 

Among Democrats, 55 percent said they thought an amnesty would be a bad idea and 36 percent thought it was a good idea. Some of the strongest opposition was found among voters in union households, a key Democratic consistency. Sixty percent of voters in union households thought it was a bad idea compared to 32 percent who thought it was a good idea. An amnesty splits the partys liberal base right down the middle, with 46 percent of liberals thinking it was a good idea and 45 percent thinking it was a bad idea.
 

An amnesty does not appear to be a way of winning Hispanic votes for either party, with 51 percent of respondents identifying it is a bad idea and 49 percent thinking its a good idea. When asked how it might affect their vote, twice as many Hispanics in the survey (33 percent) said they would be less likely to vote for Bush in 2004 if he supported an amnesty compared to 15 percent who said they would be more likely to vote for him. The same basic pattern exists for Democratic candidates, with 36 percent of Hispanics saying they would be less likely to vote for a Democrat in Congress who supports an amnesty and 20 percent indicating they would be more likely to vote for a Democrat who supports amnesty.
 

Those who oppose an amnesty seem to be much stronger in their opposition than are supporters in their support of an amnesty. While 20 percent of voters said that they thought it was a very bad idea, only 6 percent said it was a very good idea. Moreover, of those who said it was a bad or very bad idea, 51 percent said they would be less likely to vote for President Bush if he supported an amnesty. In contrast, of those who thought an amnesty was a good or very good idea, only 22 percent said they would be more likely to vote for Bush if he supported it. Very similar proportions exist when asked about Congressional Republicans and Democrats.



Not only does the president risk alienating his own conservative base, but he also risks alienating self-identified moderates, who are critical to his winning reelection in 2004. Moderates thought an amnesty was a bad or very bad idea by a margin of 59 percent to 32 percent. Moreover, 38 percent of moderates indicated that they would be less likely to vote for Bush if he supported an amnesty, compared to 8 percent who indicated that they would be more likely to vote for him if he supported an amnesty.



http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/back1201.html

and its not like cis hasn't got an agenda

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Waitone
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 07:57:04 AM »

There are times when I want to call Lindsey Graham and ask him how much he charges constituents to buy a slice of his influence.  Seems lots of organizations have a slice of his efforts and interests.  The only group he tends to ignore is his freakin' voters in SC.  I'm thinkin' a politician could set up a limited partnership to buy his time.  I as a taxpayer could buy a share of my senator so when he goes off the reservation and supports idiocy like illegal immigrant amnesty I can call and get a hearing.  It is clear the old-fashioned, quaint concept of voter and votee is not working out real well.  If it was we would not have to ask why our reps don't understand the concept of No!
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"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon
LAK
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 10:39:08 PM »

Manedwolf,

Hijacking? Pray tell; which other "republican" candidate will not keep us on a fast track into the NAU, which will mean a a defacto amnesty? Very much on topic.

Is there one? I'd like to know who it is.

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Sergeant Bob
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 04:05:09 AM »

Maybe we should change the name of this forum to "The Paulitics Place" rolleyes
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Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G
CAnnoneer
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 04:53:59 AM »

Hijacking? Pray tell; which other "republican" candidate will not keep us on a fast track into the NAU, which will mean a a defacto amnesty? Very much on topic.
Is there one? I'd like to know who it is.

I will give you two: Tancredo and Hunter. Did you watch any of the "debates"?
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longeyes
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2007, 12:02:23 PM »

Interesting how Tancredo and Hunter have been marginalized.  Either they can't get any ink or what ink they get is negative, especially Tancredo.  The fix is in, folks.

As for amnesty, the pro-amnesty side is sneaky, like the illegals themselves.  They will look for any crack of daylight to get their agenda through.  All of this is just stirring up a huge pot of future strife and dissension.
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"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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LAK
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2007, 01:21:18 PM »

CAnnoneer,

I do not watch much TV. Tancredo might throw a big wrench in the NAU - so might Hunter.

In some contrast though, Ron Paul is certain to send the NAU to the ocean bed where it belongs, and tell the U.N. they are not welcome here anymore - outside perhaps any "helpful suggestions" they may want to voice once in awhile.

Ron Paul is also certain to decisely address some other crucial items. The problem with the subject of illegals, immigration, amnesty etc is that it is simply part of an agenda, and difficult to treat in isolation, as the people driving it have been the driving force behind much else that ails us. Call it whatever you like; this has been rammed down our throats one step and piece at a time over a period of decades.  Ron Paul is well aware of who he is up against and what is likely to happen if/when someone in the WH begins to rock their boat - and sink it entirely. I am not so sure about Tancredo and Hunter.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2007, 03:59:07 PM »

LAK, if you don't watch much TV, I suspect you didn't watch the last debates, where Paul literally whined in a shrill voice, completely out of control like a ranting street doomsayer, and got boos from the audience?
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CAnnoneer
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 04:23:00 PM »

Anyone whose political hopes are tied to somebody like Ron Paul has my sincerest pity.
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LAK
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2007, 08:11:00 PM »

CAnnoneer,

Anyone whose political hopes are tied to any other (so far) "republican" or "democrat" nominated candidate may as well really believe that WWF is a real fight as far as I am concerned; they are both working for and getting paid by the same people.

Manedwolf,

No - I did not see it. What precisely did he "whine" about?
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2007, 01:13:45 AM »

CAnnoneer,

Anyone whose political hopes are tied to any other (so far) "republican" or "democrat" nominated candidate may as well really believe that WWF is a real fight as far as I am concerned; they are both working for and getting paid by the same people.

Manedwolf,

No - I did not see it. What precisely did he "whine" about?

Just watch it. It's up multiple places. You'll lose all confidence in him as a candidate. His rising voice, shrillness and agitation while the other candidates were composed made him look like a wild-eyed bearded street doomsayer, like a total nut...and he got boos. Lots of boos. I think it was his "Dean Scream" moment, honestly.
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Sindawe
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« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2007, 07:35:17 AM »

Manedwolf.  You've made the assertion that Ron Paul "whined" about stuff, so the onus is on you to provide the links to his alleged "whining".
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CAnnoneer
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« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2007, 08:49:06 AM »

This is getting silly. Watch the damn debates, then come back and resume.
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Manedwolf
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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 11:13:34 AM »

Manedwolf.  You've made the assertion that Ron Paul "whined" about stuff, so the onus is on you to provide the links to his alleged "whining".

EVERY answer went higher and higher in pitch, even his answer to the "single questions" later. It became an out and out whine, every single time. Shrill, and increasingly desparate.

Just watch it?
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Sindawe
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2007, 01:31:09 PM »

Quote
Just watch it?

Quote
Watch the damn debates...

All I find online are snippets and analysis.  None of which show "whining".  A link/and time index would be nice support of your arguments.
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