Author Topic: Are Democrats Crazy?  (Read 10700 times)

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Are Democrats Crazy?
« on: December 01, 2007, 12:58:16 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314491,00.html

Quote
roundup of Gallup health polls over the past four years finds that Republicans are far more likely than Democrats to report having excellent mental health.

The survey found that 58 percent of Republicans polled reported having excellent mental health. Only 38 percent of Democrats and 43 percent of Independents reported the same.


Draw your own conclusions ......
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

drewtam

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,985
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 04:12:05 PM »
"Conservatives" are also happier than "liberals".

http://futurist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/07/the_demographic.html
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 05:24:35 PM »
Anyone who takes a "study" like this seriously is crazy.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

Len Budney

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,023
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 04:37:21 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."
In a cannibal society, vegetarians arouse suspicion.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 07:35:57 AM »
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane  laugh
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

ilbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,546
    • Bob's blog
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 07:39:50 AM »
My guess is that liberals are more likely to be crazy than conservatives since they believe in so many things that just are not so, and far more liberals are Democrats than Republicans.

You don't see as many Republican politicians claiming the world is coming to an end as you do Democratic politicians.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 08:19:40 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."
Liberals deny exceptionalism.  They think it isn't possible for anyone to be better than anyone else.  Thus, if one person has mental problems, all must have mental problems.  Those who think they don't have problems must therefore be deluding themselves.

Conservatives do eat their own.  That's because we expect our leaders to be exceptional.  When it turns out that any given leaders isn't exceptional, we try to replace him with someone who is.

I also think it has a lot to do with the never-ending stream of false negativity that Liberals have to buy into.  The planet is dying (it isn't), we've lost the war (we're doing pretty well), the economy sucks (far from it), nobody can get ahead (anyone can and lots do), we're all victims (no we aren't), we live in a nation of bigoted racist sexist homophobes (no we don't), rich Republicans are out to get you (yeah right) ...on and on it goes.  It's a mental health minefield.  If the rank pessimism doesn't depress you, then having to believe things that don't square with reality will wreck your sanity.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 08:25:46 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."
Liberals deny exceptionalism.  They think it isn't possible for anyone to be better than anyone else.  Thus, if one person has mental problems, all must have mental problems.  Those who think they don't have problems must therefore be deluding themselves.

Yes. Witness the projection that goes from from the ranting Bradyites, when they babble that touching a gun makes you violent or have violent thoughts. Excuse me? When I touch a gun, my thoughts are either "I like this grip" or "I do not like this grip", and a thought bubble of groups on paper. You think the individual saying such things about the violent thoughts is, in fact, projecting? That they have buried inappropriate rage issues and shouldn't touch a deadly weapon? I think so!

Regarding exceptionalism, the best kid's movie ever if you want your kids to grow up with the RIGHT idea is "The Incredibles". Brad Bird snuck in some nicely subversive conservative thought. Three in particular. A rant about "every day they come up with new ways to celebrate medocrity" in regard to schools (!), a kid's statement that "Saying everyone is special is another way of saying nobody is.", and a villain's plan to make everyone "super" so no-one will be.

I was rather pleased.

And yes, Brad Bird continued that in his latest movie, with a message that while not everyone has certain innate abilities, those who have those abilities can come from any level of privilege or class, and it's up to them and their own efforts to make the most of their gifts and rise with them. I never expected to see the original "American Dream" in a modern movie like that.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,423
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 08:50:32 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."


How are the two statements connected? 


I don't agree with the first part, but I think you're close.  I think people who don't complain about mental health problems, but choose to go on  with life and just try harder, are more likely to be conservative, or on the right-hand side of libertarianism.  Boot-straps and rugged individualism, and so forth.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Len Budney

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,023
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 08:58:14 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."

How are the two statements connected?

Showing weakness before one's fellow conservatives is like an alpha male showing weakness to his pack: getting torn apart by wolves.

Quote
I don't agree with the first part, but I think you're close.  I think people who don't complain about mental health problems, but choose to go on  with life and just try harder, are more likely to be conservative, or on the right-hand side of libertarianism.  Boot-straps and rugged individualism, and so forth.

That's the good aspect of denying weakness: it encourages people to overcome. The bad side is that one daren't seek help even when one is overwhelmed. Christian churches can be that way too. We claim we're a "hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints," but in too many cases the consequences of admitting one's problems can be too dire to contemplate.

--Len.
In a cannibal society, vegetarians arouse suspicion.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2007, 09:12:25 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314491,00.html

Quote
roundup of Gallup health polls over the past four years finds that Republicans are far more likely than Democrats to report having excellent mental health.

The survey found that 58 percent of Republicans polled reported having excellent mental health. Only 38 percent of Democrats and 43 percent of Independents reported the same.


Draw your own conclusions ......

My conclusions are that the study is amusing, but means little to nothing.  I love that people are unable to differentiate the fact that it is not a poll of actual mental health, but rather people's perception of their own mental health.  "58 percent of Republicans polled reported having excellent mental health", keyword being 'reported'.  The test wasn't done by shrinks using objective methods to try to find realistic results. 

I'm sure the majority of folks who post here will chuckle and choose treat the numbers as being actual prepresentations of mental health.  The poll just says that Republicans are more likely to believe (well, report, but let's assume honesty here) they have good mental health.  I'd think it'd be more informative to actually see how many actually are mentally healthy vs how many reported being mentally healthy.  ie, are people honest and accurate in their opinion of their mental health.

My apologies for pointing out reality. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Iain

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,490
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2007, 09:18:57 AM »
The alternative take of course is to wonder if the average Republican is really that far gone. Sometimes you have to pretty mental to think you are sane.

This comment should be taken as seriously as the original poll. So someone is bound to ignore it, and someone else is likely to fail to read this disclaimer and lay into me.
I do not like, when with me play, and I think that you also


Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 09:59:58 AM »
Conservatives think it's a weakness to admit to having problems. As Newty said, "Conservatives eat their own."

How are the two statements connected?

Showing weakness before one's fellow conservatives is like an alpha male showing weakness to his pack: getting torn apart by wolves.

Quote
I don't agree with the first part, but I think you're close.  I think people who don't complain about mental health problems, but choose to go on  with life and just try harder, are more likely to be conservative, or on the right-hand side of libertarianism.  Boot-straps and rugged individualism, and so forth.

That's the good aspect of denying weakness: it encourages people to overcome. The bad side is that one daren't seek help even when one is overwhelmed. Christian churches can be that way too. We claim we're a "hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints," but in too many cases the consequences of admitting one's problems can be too dire to contemplate.

--Len.

"Denying weakness" is essentially the same thing as believing you can overcome.  It's two sides of the same coin, or rather, the same thing viewed from two different perspectives ("I can do it" vs. "I can't do it").

This is one of the underlying issues in most liberal vs conservative disagreements.  It's a difference of premises.  The conservative is likely to believe that anyone can overcome, that our biggest limitations are self-imposed and needn't be.  Liberals are likely to believe that nobody can succeed on their own, we all need help (presumably from government or society), and that it's wrong to deny this truth.  The really interesting thing is that both are true for the people who believe them.

Lots of social and political issues resolve down to this difference in premises.  We end up debating the issues, each side convinced that we're right.  And that's the kicker: we are both right, given the way in which our different premises lead to different real-world outcomes.

I think this poll on self-reported mental health is skirting the edge of something really profound.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2007, 10:32:42 AM »
This is one of the underlying issues in most liberal vs conservative disagreements.  It's a difference of premises.  The conservative is likely to believe that anyone can overcome, that our biggest limitations are self-imposed and needn't be.  Liberals are likely to believe that nobody can succeed on their own, we all need help (presumably from government or society), and that it's wrong to deny this truth.  The really interesting thing is that both are true for the people who believe them.

I believe in self-empowerment, and find the typical liberal's attitude to be both defeatist and that of a child wanting mommy to hold their hand, that they can't solve a problem on their own.

Hence, my views.


griz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,047
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2007, 12:54:00 PM »
If you assume that democtates believe they "can't", does that mean that democratic leaders are not democrates?  After all their leaders believe they "can".

I think reality is a little more complex than that.
Sent from a stone age computer via an ordinary keyboard.

member1313

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 148
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2007, 03:33:24 PM »
Did you seriously just quote Fox news?

Yup, it's the Democrats that are nuts. Tongue

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 03:38:05 PM »
Did you seriously just quote Fox news?

Yup, it's the Democrats that are nuts. Tongue

As opposed to what? "These aren't plants, really" CNN? "We're going to use Olbermann as our figurehead" MSNBC?

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2007, 03:46:26 PM »
Quote
Did you seriously just quote Fox news?

Those that know me fairly well know that I rarely post anything "serious"  Wink


Seriously though, I have managed to learn that when poop happens in your life, you can forget about it and try to go on with your life, or else you can get all emotional about it, spend years in counseling and therapy, and then forget about it and try to go on with your life.  Either one works, but the former wastes fewer years.  rolleyes
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Len Budney

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,023
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2007, 03:54:28 PM »
"Denying weakness" is essentially the same thing as believing you can overcome.  It's two sides of the same coin, or rather, the same thing viewed from two different perspectives ("I can do it" vs. "I can't do it").

I guess you could put it that way. When I overcome weakness, I start be acknowledging its existence--I just deny that it's unbeatable. I'm talking about people who deny its existence. They can't overcome what "doesn't exist."

Quote
This is one of the underlying issues in most liberal vs conservative disagreements.  It's a difference of premises.  The conservative is likely to believe that anyone can overcome, that our biggest limitations are self-imposed and needn't be. Liberals are likely to believe that nobody can succeed on their own, we all need help (presumably from government or society), and that it's wrong to deny this truth.

That's how I liked to view conservatives when I was one, and I still lean toward that viewpoint. But the same people who claim to fear nothing but fear itself, the same "can do" Americans, shake like Jello(tm) for fear that a couple of kooks in a cave are going to topple our government, set up sharia law, exterminate Americans and overthrow western civilization itself. Six idiot Muslim pizza boys actually frightened veterans with their prospective "mass murder" at Fort Dix. Indeed, when I took it for granted that armed, conservative high-roaders would laugh the idea out of the room, and posted with that perspective on THR, I made an enemy for life in Correia, and set the stage for my ultimate ban when the purge came.

So now I'm a bit more cynical. Liberals wobble like jelly for fear that they'll catch cancer without Hillary Care(tm) to fall back on. Conservatives quiver like pudding for fear "Islamo-fascists" will take over their country, destroy their way of life, and eat all their macaroons. Both seem to have major Achilles heels, though.

--Len.
In a cannibal society, vegetarians arouse suspicion.

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,449
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2007, 04:15:02 PM »
Those that can, do.  Those that can't run for office and make laws that say no.

PS:  The answer to the OP is yes.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2007, 07:08:10 AM »
Wake up!  The whole 'Republican v Democrat', 'Conservative v. Liberal' thing is just so much pap for the masses.  Both parties are full of self serving thieves.  They're both pro big government and anti liberty. One borrows and spends, the other taxes and spends.  Show me where this Republican president and the last Republican congress exercised any 'conservative' principles. 

Len Budney

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,023
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2007, 07:10:55 AM »
Wake up!  The whole 'Republican v Democrat', 'Conservative v. Liberal' thing is just so much pap for the masses.  Both parties are full of self serving thieves.  They're both pro big government and anti liberty. One borrows and spends, the other taxes and spends.  Show me where this Republican president and the last Republican congress exercised any 'conservative' principles. 

Whoah, Riley! For a second after reading your post, I thought I wrote it and said to myself, "Damn--I really nailed that!" Then I realized that you wrote it.  grin
In a cannibal society, vegetarians arouse suspicion.

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2007, 07:44:08 AM »
Here's some real 'conservatism' for ya:

 National debt grows $1 million a minute

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer Mon Dec 3, 6:55 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Like a ticking time bomb, the national debt is an explosion waiting to happen. It's expanding by about $1.4 billion a day  or nearly $1 million a minute.
ADVERTISEMENT

What's that mean to you?

It means almost $30,000 in debt for each man, woman, child and infant in the United States.

Even if you've escaped the recent housing and credit crunches and are coping with rising fuel prices, you may still be headed for economic misery, along with the rest of the country. That's because the government is fast straining resources needed to meet interest payments on the national debt, which stands at a mind-numbing $9.13 trillion.

And like homeowners who took out adjustable-rate mortgages, the government faces the prospect of seeing this debt  now at relatively low interest rates  rolling over to higher rates, multiplying the financial pain.

So long as somebody is willing to keep loaning the U.S. government money, the debt is largely out of sight, out of mind.

But the interest payments keep compounding, and could in time squeeze out most other government spending  leading to sharply higher taxes or a cut in basic services like Social Security and other government benefit programs. Or all of the above.

A major economic slowdown, as some economists suggest may be looming, could hasten the day of reckoning.

The national debt  the total accumulation of annual budget deficits  is up from $5.7 trillion when President Bush took office in January 2001 and it will top $10 trillion sometime right before or right after he leaves in January 2009.

That's $10,000,000,000,000.00, or one digit more than an odometer-style "national debt clock" near New York's Times Square can handle. When the privately owned automated clock was activated in 1989, the national debt was $2.7 trillion.

It only gets worse.

Over the next 25 years, the number of Americans aged 65 and up is expected to almost double. The work population will shrink and more and more baby boomers will be drawing Social Security and Medicare benefits, putting new demands on the government's resources.

These guaranteed retirement and health benefit programs now make up the largest component of federal spending. Defense is next. And moving up fast in third place is interest on the national debt, which totaled $430 billion last year.

Aggravating the debt picture: the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates could cost $2.4 trillion over the next decade

Despite vows in both parties to restrain federal spending, the national debt as a percentage of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product has grown from about 35 percent in 1975 to around 65 percent today. By historical standards, it's not proportionately as high as during World War II  when it briefly rose to 120 percent of GDP, but it's a big chunk of liability.

"The problem is going forward," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard and Poors, a major credit-rating agency.

"Our estimate is that the national debt will hit 350 percent of the GDP by 2050 under unchanged policy. Something has to change, because if you look at what's going to happen to expenditures for entitlement programs after us baby boomers start to retire, at the current tax rates, it doesn't work," Wyss said.

With national elections approaching, candidates of both parties are talking about fiscal discipline and reducing the deficit and accusing the other of irresponsible spending. But the national debt itself  a legacy of overspending dating back to the American Revolution  receives only occasional mention.

Who is loaning Washington all this money?

Ordinary investors who buy Treasury bills, notes and U.S. savings bonds, for one. Also it is banks, pension funds, mutual fund companies and state, local and increasingly foreign governments. This accounts for about $5.1 trillion of the total and is called the "publicly held" debt. The remaining $4 trillion is owed to Social Security and other government accounts, according to the Treasury Department, which keeps figures on the national debt down to the penny on its Web site.

Some economists liken the government's plight to consumers who spent like there was no tomorrow  only to find themselves maxed out on credit cards and having a hard time keeping up with rising interest payments......................

read the rest of it here

Voting Republican while calling yourself 'conservative' is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy.


Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Are Democrats Crazy?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2007, 08:15:17 AM »
So the conclusion is that Democrats are neurotic while Republicans are psychotic Huh?

 grin
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin