Graffiti, property rights, and free speech

[RexKwonDo]

Hello,

I am looking for some ideas here for graffiti to put on the back fence of my property.  Mostly interested in quotes, and I will probably put the first amendment up there.  Here is my situation:

August 17 - I buy a house that has some graffiti on the back fence.  There is a picture of a firecracker, and two instances of "425", which is the area code here.  I don't care about the graffiti and don't plan on removing it.

November 2 - I receive a letter from the city of Renton requesting that I remove the graffiti by November 17, saying that the quick removal of graffiti deters further graffiti.  I do not mind future graffiti, and if it is anything of substance I would actually welcome it.  I decide to take no action.

November 28 - I receive a letter from the City of Renton saying that they will "allow [me] 10 days from the date of this letter to remove all graffiti from [my] property.  After December 8, 2007, an on site inspection will be conducted.  If the property is not in compliance at this time you will be issued a criminal citation without further contact from this department."  This letter kind of ticks me off.  I absolutely think that tagging someone's property without their permission is a bad thing, but I do not understand why a property owner would get in trouble for allowing graffiti on their own property.  This is not cool by me.  So I have decided that rather than remove the graffiti, I would like to put some more up.  I would probably like substantial quotes by respectable people, but I was also considering "F*** censorship" (without the asterisks).  So I ask you what quotes you would consider appropriate to the situation.  By the way, the graffiti is in a very low visibility place.  It's a dirt road that only has access to the rears of a few houses, and is closed off on one end.  The only people who would ever use it would be the few residents who live along it, and I doubt very many of them would use it because it is full of pot holes and doesn't provide any sort of convenience.

[jefnvk]

I'd go for more of the message that if police were doing their job, the grafitti wouldn't be there in the first place.  Also, be sure to mention needing reimbursement from the city for the supplies to remove said grafitti.

[Nitrogen]

If the grafitti is gang-related, it might be to your advantage to remove it.

That might be why the cops are being so crazy about it.  Otherwise, I agree with the poster above me, demanding reimbursement for time and materials to remove it.

Your time being whatever you make per hour at your job, including driving time, mileage, etc.

[yesitsloaded]

Sounds like a case of "someone else put it there without your consent, so we want you to pay to have it removed". Unless it is offensive or vulgar, who cares?

[RexKwonDo]

That's exactly what it is, yesitsloaded.  And if it were offensive or vulgar I would have removed it myself as soon as I moved in, but I would have also been more resentful to the city forcing its removal.  jefnvk and Nitrogen, I did also have the idea to invoke the fifth amendment, "... private property [shall not be] be taken for public use, without just compensation", but by using this argument I feel I would be sacrificing my argument based on the first amendment.  Nitrogen, you didn't articulate your reasoning regarding the graffiti being gang related, but I assume you are referring to my safety lest a rival gang take issue with the graffiti.  I am not worried about such a situation, and the graffiti does not seem gang related in the first place.

[Tuco]

Just my take...

The state university extension agency is catty corner across the intersection from me.  One Friday morning, I awake to see a bit of undecipherable "gang sign" emblem like thing painted on the steel door facing the street/sidewalk. On Saturday morning, it was still there, and I walked over with two half cans of grey and brown camo (from my 835 job) and cover that door.  The neighbor comes out and ask (nicely) what's up?  I explain that its like a dog pissing on her roses.  Deal with it immediately or it will only get worse.

A large part of responsible home ownership involves swallowing pride and cleaning up in the name of the greater good. 

Example:

The fast food bags on the street on saturday morning;
The dead (or dying) crow on the neighbor's roof that needs to be removed;
Dog poop in your front lawn (whether it's your dog or not);
Graffiti on your fence or wall.

People that refuse to take a level of responsibly for the safety and cleanliness of their neighborhood are responsible for the decay that creates slums.

[edited for politeness] - but quoted by Sgt Bob for EVER!

Clean off your fence and quit acting the fool.

[charby]

I'd paint pictures of nude ladies..

[Sergeant Bob]

Just my take...

The state university extension agency is catty corner across the intersection from me.  One Friday morning, I awake to see a bit of undecipherable "gang sign" emblem like thing painted on the steel door facing the street/sidewalk.

On Saturday morning, it was still there, and I walked over with two half cans of grey and brown camo (from my 835 job) and cover that door.

The nieghbor comes out and ask (nicely) what's up?  I explain that its like a dog pissing on her roses.  Deal with it immediately or it will only get worse.

A large part of responsible home ownership involves swallowing pride and cleaning up in the name of the greater good. 

Example:

The fast food bags on the street on saturday morning;

The dead (or dying) crow on the neighbor's roof that needs to be removed;

Dog poop in your front lawn (whether it's your dog or not);

Graffiti on your fence or wall..

People that refuse to take a level of responsibly for the safety and cleanliness of their neighborhood are responsible for the decay that creates slums.


Clean off your fence and quit being a lazy crybaby.

Whoa dude! Yur harshing my mellow!

But, it makes a lot of sense.

[Firethorn]

I am not worried about such a situation, and the graffiti does not seem gang related in the first place.

My take on it is that graffiti on your place encourages people to use neighboring areas for their canvas as well; while you might not care, your neighbors might.

If you really want 'graffiti' up, I suggest putting it up yourself or contracting some aspiring artists to do so.  Stick a sign up with rules*.  That way the cops know not to bother with your property.

Please note that I'm saying this stuff in a 'good neighbor' type of way - you shouldn't be required to do this stuff, but I like to be a good neighbor in the hopes that people will be a good neighbor back.

*Stuff like 'No gang signs', 'positive messages only', 'no profanity/nuditity', 'I retain final say despite the other rules on this sign'.  Be prepared for rules lawyering.  And perhaps continuing hassles from the city.  I'd check out their graffiti ordinances to see what falls under it.

[Jamisjockey]

If the grafitti is gang-related, it might be to your advantage to remove it.

That might be why the cops are being so crazy about it.  Otherwise, I agree with the poster above me, demanding reimbursement for time and materials to remove it.

Your time being whatever you make per hour at your job, including driving time, mileage, etc.

That's typically why they are after it and make such a big deal.  Plus, its an eyesore that drops your neighbors home values.
If the fence is yours, billing the city would be petty.  If its an easment, I'd bill 'em.

[Tuco]

If the fence is yours, billing the city would be petty.  If its an easment, I'd bill 'em.

Excellent point JJ.  Is the fence a city fence or Rex's fence? 

It'd change my attitude, but not my message.

Steve

[RexKwonDo]

This graffiti would not affect anyone's home value, as it is not visible from anywhere except this dirt road that I have never seen a single person on in the months I've lived here.  As for it encouraging graffiti surrounding, that is also unlikely because mine is the only fence for several hundred yards.  The other neighbors have chain fences that can't be written on.  And as for encouraging more graffiti on my own fence, that is something that I am fine with.  I have contacted an artist who will be painting my wall for me later this week.  I just don't know exactly what I will have him paint yet.  I do want to be a good neighbor, and if this were a fence that were visible to anyone other than a cop who was coming out to look at it, I would have cleaned it as soon as I moved in.

[RexKwonDo]

The fence is on an easement.  I don't know if this will get me into trouble if I decide to paint it more, but if the city is considering it my fence to unpaint, then I am assuming it would be mine to paint as well.

[De Selby]

You really need to just fork out the cash for a decent attorney on this one, if you're serious about it.  Then you'll be able to know the options and whether there's any hope of beating city hall on this regulation.

[Nick1911]

You really need to just fork out the cash for a decent attorney on this one, if you're serious about it.  Then you'll be able to know the options and whether there's any hope of beating city hall on this regulation.

Agreed.

[Sergeant Bob]

You really need to just fork out the cash for a decent attorney on this one, if you're serious about it.  Then you'll be able to know the options and whether there's any hope of beating city hall on this regulation.

Can of paint, about $5.
Paint brush,  about $2
Not having to pay a lawyer $250 and spend a bunch of time screwing around with the city, who has nothing but time and money to make your life miserable over something so trivial as painting a fence, Priceless.

[Ned Hamford]

You really need to just fork out the cash for a decent attorney on this one, if you're serious about it.  Then you'll be able to know the options and whether there's any hope of beating city hall on this regulation.

Can of paint, about $5.
Paint brush,  about $2
Not having to pay a lawyer $250 and spend a bunch of time screwing around with the city, who has nothing but time and money to make your life miserable over something so trivial as painting a fence, Priceless.

I concur.  While its nice to assert your rights, you would be downright foolish to forget that low level gov. agents can and do hold grudges for generations.

[Brad Johnson]

And remember..

In general, the more hideous the color the cheaper the paint.

Brad

[Finch]

I would get a nice bucket of the ugliest color possible - like a greenish/yellowish brown. And then paint only the exact area where the graffiti is at, leaving the rest untouched.

[jefnvk]

Flourescent Orange or that hi-viz green color spraypaint.  Maybe both.  See if they got the pink, too.