Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on August 13, 2017, 02:24:43 PM

Title: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 13, 2017, 02:24:43 PM
http://www.newser.com/story/247135/trump-aide-calls-virginia-violence-terrorism.html

I only heard a snippet of Trump's message yesterday, and I have to say that the tone of voice was more somber and slower than I think I have ever heard him. Needless to say, even though he addressed the situation almost instantly, the usual suspects are complaining that he didn't specifically call out white supremacists and "racists."

Where were those same usual suspects when it was Black Lives Matter terrorists who were rioting and burning down entire neighborhoods? Of course, they would have objected if anyone had called black rioters "terrorists" or "racists," because ... well ... because reasons. But when whites do the same thing, apparently it's necessary to object to the color of the particular aholes du jour rather than condemn the actions themselves, irrespective of who is doing the acting out.

Trump will never get a fair break from the mass media.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MillCreek on August 13, 2017, 03:05:07 PM
This is a photo from the march. 


(http://media.guacamoley.com/ZCaj8K/840x440/WhiteSupremacistsGUAC-1502560352701.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Triphammer on August 13, 2017, 03:22:02 PM
I've been trying to find some sort of timeline for this. All I can find  is that "several hundred "White Nationalist's", these guys, showed up to show displeasure with a plan to remove an historic statue. "Peaceful" counter protesters showed up and fights occurred. Not a word on who started what, who was attacked first. Only that the first group is racist.
 I've got think if the original protest went on for Friday night, un-accosted, all of the "Nationalists" would have gone back to work, never to be heard from again.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MillCreek on August 13, 2017, 03:55:39 PM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/12/charlottesville-crash-protesters-video-orig-vstop-dlewis.cnn/video/playlists/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13/charlottesville-suspects-mom-told-him-to-protest-peacefully.html

You must have missed the timeline part in which the peaceful white nationalist deliberately drove into a crowd, killing one and killing 19.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: zxcvbob on August 13, 2017, 04:15:10 PM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/12/charlottesville-crash-protesters-video-orig-vstop-dlewis.cnn/video/playlists/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13/charlottesville-suspects-mom-told-him-to-protest-peacefully.html

You must have missed the timeline part in which the peaceful white nationalist deliberately drove into a crowd, killing one and killing 19.

I don't know anything about who drove into the crowd (other than he's from Ohio, and now his name)

Of course the media portrays hims as a white nationalist.  And maybe he is, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Triphammer on August 13, 2017, 04:29:56 PM
No, didn't miss anything. You know as well as I that this didn't start with someone driveing through a crowd. There's just a strange lack of information as to who started the physical assaults.
 We've spoken of this here on occasion discussing the BLM marches. Someone reacting in either fear or ander that gets someone killed.
The antifas are known to bring violence to shut down free speech, not that I generally agree with this particular group, political speech is protected.
 Just trying to understand.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MillCreek on August 13, 2017, 04:34:43 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/james-alex-fields-charlottesville-driver-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Of note, Mr. Fields washed out of the Army in less than four months, and at a minimum, he likes to stand around with the white supremacist groups and hold their shields, as you can see by the photos.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 13, 2017, 04:40:21 PM
So, here it is:

There is a statue of Lee in a place called Lee Park. A 13 year old girl decided she was scared of the statue because of slavery blah blah blah and city council went on the liberal warpath to have it removed.
City council got blocked by Virginia state laws. City council doesn't care, keeps trying to remove the statue. Much yelling and arguing from both sides. City Council continues doing illegal things like renaming the park and basically being asses.

In regards to the actual park and statue, I have officially reached the point where enough is enough. I say bulldoze the whole thing and turn it into a *expletive deleted*ing parking lot because what downtown needs is more parking and less aholes.

A couple weeks ago the KKK came to town and had a rally. They had a permit and police escort. A bunch of idiots showed up to protest without permits. Got told to leave. A bunch of other idiots (many from out of town and members of Antifa groups) refused to leave, started crap and mostly got arrested.

IMHO, if the KKK had come, been ignored and gone, the events of this weekend would not have happened. C-ville proved itself willing to feed into this kind of bullshit and, thus, the bullshit happened.

So comes along Kessler and his idiots. They also get a permit to protest. They are legit racist, neo nazi scumbags. City Council has it's head up it's ass. Tries to refuse giving the permit. ACLU backs Kessler and forces the city to give the permit. City makes up some crap about making them move the protest to a different park based on the size of the event. Kessler and his ilk are ticked off, fight it. Then City revokes permit at the last minute. Kesslers goons go to Walmart, get tiki torches and have the cops called on them by "concerned citizens" since many of the goons are open carrying. Obviously, the cops explain to the "concerned citizens" that open carry is legal and goons laugh and go on their merry way. The goons go to the Lawn with tiki torches lit and march. UVA students come out in force to "protect" a statue of Jefferson. IDK if the goons are still armed, because if they were that would have been illegal since they were on UVA campus. Minor brawling ensues. Drama. Whatever.
Day of big protest. Goons from both sides show up with helmets, shields and baseball bats. Police are supposed to be escorting and corralling various goons. Police fail miserably. In fact, at one point they force nazi goons to walk through a bunch of antifa goons. Fighting breaks out. Who didn't see that coming.  :facepalm:
Finally, bunch of antifa goons are packed into a side street just off the Downtown mall. Dodge charger comes through, rams into the two stopped cars in front of him, then hits it into reverse and wails back the way it came from. One woman is dead, 19 injured.
 ***stop*** noted else where people making comments about people being in the street and that's all bad, obviously people in the street up to no good. While I agree that this particular bunch was up to no good, them being packed into the street is not indicative of bad behavior in that area. The Downtown mall is a pedestrian mall and the side streets are usually fair game as well. When it gets crowded down there, that's pretty much par for the course. You see people walking around like that every friday. *back to the events**

Dodge Charger has Ohio plates. Driver has turned out to be a "alt right" scumbag who has no ties to C-ville that I've seen.

All in all, city council is wailing for peace publicly and probably patting themselves on the backs in private. They got C-ville on the map and I doubt they could be prouder of themselves.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 13, 2017, 04:42:35 PM
No, didn't miss anything. You know as well as I that this didn't start with someone driveing through a crowd. There's just a strange lack of information as to who started the physical assaults.
 We've spoken of this here on occasion discussing the BLM marches. Someone reacting in either fear or ander that gets someone killed.
The antifas are known to bring violence to shut down free speech, not that I generally agree with this particular group, political speech is protected.
 Just trying to understand.

Both sides wanted it. Both sides were prepared for it. In this case, I don't think it matters who threw the first punch. In fact, I doubt they know who threw the first punch. They didn't show up for peaceful protest. They showed up for a brawl.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MillCreek on August 13, 2017, 05:41:43 PM
BSL, thanks a lot for the 'on the ground' explanation.  Very interesting.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: lupinus on August 13, 2017, 05:57:21 PM
So worthless scumbags wanted to protest, city council wet themselves and pulls bs at last minute. Scumbags protest anyway.

Groups of opposing scumbags show up ready for a fight, and do so, fighting what seems like more or less each other.

Why is everyone bemoaning this? I just wanna know why it wasn't out on ppv and advertised ahead of time.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Triphammer on August 13, 2017, 06:04:38 PM
BST, thanks. Lots of insight we don't see on the news.
 I am not in any way condoning this driver.  What is missing from news reports is the fact the Antifas wanted to shut down "badspeak", again. It doesn't matter weather it's these guys or Milo. This time, those expressing a differing viewpoint were not going the stand by and be maced or hit with bike locks.
 I don't think anyone will go to hear a speaker or attend an event that the left has determined needs stopping will do so without being prepared for violence. It is too bad the example in this case is neo-nazis, it was going to happen eventually.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 13, 2017, 06:27:51 PM
So worthless scumbags wanted to protest, city council wet themselves and pulls bs at last minute. Scumbags protest anyway.

Groups of opposing scumbags show up ready for a fight, and do so, fighting what seems like more or less each other.

Why is everyone bemoaning this? I just wanna know why it wasn't out on ppv and advertised ahead of time.

City Council did not wet themselves. City Council pulled BS to fan the flames. City Council wanted to make sure that everyone was mad as hell and boiling for a fight.

And if you think I'm kidding, go look up our vice mayor, Wes Bellemy. Scumbag has been itching for a race riot in C-ville for a long time now.
Title: Re: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: lupinus on August 13, 2017, 06:38:45 PM
City Council did not wet themselves. City Council pulled BS to fan the flames. City Council wanted to make sure that everyone was mad as hell and boiling for a fight.

And if you think I'm kidding, go look up our vice mayor, Wes Bellemy. Scumbag has been itching for a race riot in C-ville for a long time now.
Ah. Well then I say we throw them in the middle before ringing the opening bell next time.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 13, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Relax, people. We have been assured that everything went "very well."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-protests-white-nationalists.html

Quote
Brittany Caine-Conley, a minister in training at Sojourners United Church of Christ, who had come with other faith leaders to protest against the white nationalists, said she was horrified to see officers in the park watching the violence take place outside in the street.

“There was no police presence,’’ she said. “We were watching people punch each other; people were bleeding all the while police were inside of barricades at the park watching. It was essentially just brawling on the street and community members trying to protect each other.”
California Today

Asked about the brawling and why police did not do more to control it, Brian Moran, Virginia’s secretary of public safety, said in an interview on Sunday that “it was a volatile situation and it’s unfortunate people resorted to violence.’’ But, he said, “From our plan, to ensure the safety of our citizens and property, it went extremely well.’’

I hope someone will explain to Heather D. Heyer's family exactly how well it went.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 13, 2017, 07:44:45 PM
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19657/late-night-ann-coulter-twitter-tirade-mocks-msm-robert-kraychik
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: French G. on August 13, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
I feel a festive family dinner coming. I am guessing that my C'ville bunny hugging mom is not going to see people who need to play catch with a machine gun on both sides of this one. I am am more than willing to associate with people of other political stripes but the intellectual dishonesty has me hostile.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 13, 2017, 10:07:11 PM
I feel a festive family dinner coming. I am guessing that my C'ville bunny hugging mom is not going to see people who need to play catch with a machine gun on both sides of this one. I am am more than willing to associate with people of other political stripes but the intellectual dishonesty has me hostile.

Your mom must be hanging out with my mom. You know, all those innocent peaceful protesters where just sweet little angels doing nothing wrong when the big bad alt-right/nazi's came to town.

My mother is convinced that the majority of the "counter protesters" was the kumbahya singing hippie clergy holding hands and no sins where committed by any of them.  ;/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 13, 2017, 10:45:32 PM
Your mom must be hanging out with my mom. You know, all those innocent peaceful protesters where just sweet little angels doing nothing wrong when the big bad alt-right/nazi's came to town.

My mother is convinced that the majority of the "counter protesters" was the kumbahya singing hippie clergy holding hands and no sins where committed by any of them.  ;/


"Mostly peaceful protestors"?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: just Warren on August 13, 2017, 11:07:30 PM
The alt-right is so alt they're on the left, along with the Nazis and KKK.

And if the left is wiling to do this to each other imagine what they'll do to those on the actual right.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 13, 2017, 11:12:38 PM
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19657/late-night-ann-coulter-twitter-tirade-mocks-msm-robert-kraychik

I do believe I'm falling in love with Ann Coulter.

Too bad she's so much younger, richer, better looking, and smarter than I am ...
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 14, 2017, 07:59:52 AM
Of course the plan went off very well.

The plan was to allow violence to take place without police intervention and do everything possible to pin the violence on the right (correctly or incorrectly, doesn't matter) and use it as a launching platform against Republicans.

Our esteemed Communist in Chief in Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, orchestrated it quite well. *expletive deleted*ing socialists are good at that crap.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 14, 2017, 08:06:53 AM
I would be unsurprised were it to turn out to have been a false flag operation but I suspect the perp would probably commit "suicide" before such were allowed to be told.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 14, 2017, 10:29:24 AM
I can't disagree with anything Coulter said in that essay.

With all the different opinions from the reporters that are supposed to be posting unbiased news, I'm not sure if we'll ever learn what actually started the violence or who threw the first punch.

IMO, historically, 95% of the time it's the left throwing the first punch (or urine bomb) or breaking the first windows as the conservatives attempt to have a peaceful rally. In this case, given some of the white supremacist groups that showed up, I would have no doubt that some of them did everything they could to get the left to throw the first punch, in fact probably came with a plan to goad them into first contact.

In Ben's "that's the way you should do it" world, the city should have given the knuckleheads their permit, and everyone else should have let them protest and ignored them. Without an audience, they would have basically been irrelevant.

For the record, and hopefully not being lumped in with white supremacists, I am very much against name changes, statue removals, and revisionist history. The Chinese proverb comes to mind, and you don't see Jews demanding that all the relics of Hitler's Germany be destroyed. We should always be careful to record history, not politically drive it. There's already too much "the victor writes the history" stuff.

Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 14, 2017, 10:39:23 AM
The Mayor of Charlottesville is apparently now assigning 100% blame for the violence to Trump.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: mtnbkr on August 14, 2017, 10:50:38 AM
The Mayor of Charlottesville is apparently now assigning 100% blame for the violence to Trump.

I called it yesterday afternoon.  I was talking to SWMBO and pointed out they will try to make this Trump's fault.

Chris
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 14, 2017, 10:57:11 AM
I called it yesterday afternoon.  I was talking to SWMBO and pointed out they will try to make this Trump's fault.

Chris
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the same people were funding both sides of it just to create more chaos.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 14, 2017, 11:31:50 AM
I called it yesterday afternoon.  I was talking to SWMBO and pointed out they will try to make this Trump's fault.

Chris

Yeah, that wasn't exactly a tough call to make. I have no doubt that the left was just salivating, hoping that there would be an upwelling of violence so they could scream TRUMP'S FAULT!

And holy crap, supposedly Moms Demand are using the death of the woman in Charlottesville to issue a renewed call for...

More gun control.

Stupid See You In Toledos.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 14, 2017, 11:40:25 AM

And holy crap, supposedly Moms Demand are using the death of the woman in Charlottesville to issue a renewed call for...

More gun control.

Stupid See You In Toledos.

 :facepalm:

I saw a blurb on that. My first thought was that I saw several interviews and photos Saturday that included open carriers. Apparently there were a lot of them there, and gee, not a single gunshot.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 14, 2017, 12:21:54 PM
The Mayor of Charlottesville is apparently now assigning 100% blame for the violence to Trump.


Boy, I wonder. If the Left had been falsely claiming for over a year that a major American political movement signalled a renaissance of white supremacy, would that encourage white supremacists to start having pride parades? The left told them this is their moment, and their president. How shocking that they want to capitalize on it.

Here's a column from last year that helps explain why white nationalism is even a thing right now. A must read.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/23/how-anti-white-rhetoric-is-fueling-white-nationalism/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 14, 2017, 12:23:12 PM
The Mayor of Charlottesville is apparently now assigning 100% blame for the violence to Trump.

Yeah -- the left is complaining about Trump condemning ALL violence, rather than only condemning right-wing violence.

Where were they when Obama was basically encouraging BLM riots?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 14, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
Hmm. Trump didn't name Black Lives Matter or Antifa in his list of hate groups. Pretty weak stuff, Prezzy. I am disappoint.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Frank Castle on August 14, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
https://charlotte.craigslist.org/tfr/d/actors-and-photographers/6253305119.html

Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 14, 2017, 03:52:31 PM
Here's a column from last year that helps explain why white nationalism is even a thing right now. A must read.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/23/how-anti-white-rhetoric-is-fueling-white-nationalism/

Good read. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 14, 2017, 08:03:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHMyR_7UQAMxSEx.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 14, 2017, 09:01:33 PM
All the people demanding that Trump denounce white nationalism and the Klan, etc. - I'd love to see the demands they made of Obama to denounce Black Lives Matter. Love to see 'em.
Title: Re:
Post by: K Frame on August 14, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
That's different.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 14, 2017, 09:13:55 PM
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Report%3A_%E2%80%98Unite_the_Right%E2%80%99_Organizer_Jason_Kessler_Was_Obama_Supporter_Involved_In_Occupy_Movement/60313/0/38/38/Y/M.html

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/08/report-white-supremacist-unite-right-leader-jason-kessler-obama-occupy-supporter/

Apparently the organizer on the white supremacist side was a former Obama supporter and Occupy protestor.  The biggest error in the articles is saying he his political views moved to the right.  No, they are just as leftist as they always were.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 14, 2017, 09:17:28 PM
Okay, so we have a leftist white supremicist guy with ties to leftist protest movements.  We have the antifa crowd that is already known to be taking rich leftist money to protest.  We also have a Democrat city leadership who had the police stay out of it.  Yeah, that sounds like the whole thing was organized.  Was it meant to embarrass Trump or was there some other purpose?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 14, 2017, 10:32:30 PM
Sometimes I really think "they" want a race war.
To what end I can only guess.

One possibility is that the leftard elites know that the end result of a no *expletive deleted*it, full on race war will end very badly for the minorities on the receiving end of things. The real goal is the wholesale reduction in the number of minorities.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: just Warren on August 14, 2017, 10:46:39 PM
If the inclusive left (progs) and the exclusive left (Nazis, KKK) fight then it will go to the inclusive left.

If the inclusive left tries to fight conservatives or the general right then the left loses and badly.

But for reasons I've explained before, let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 15, 2017, 07:45:53 AM
Interesting...

The police chief of Charlottesville was on local radio yesterday...

He was essentially whitewashing the abject failure of police and National Guard to keep the two groups separated.

He didn't address the growing number of reports saying that police stood around with their thumbs in their assess and watched multiple clashes without doing anything.

But... he strongly inferred that violence was instigated from BOTH sides.

I thought that wasn't possible. I've been hearing repeatedly how that's simply not possible, that the left is nothing more than a loose confederation of peace loving, granola crunching hippies who were set upon by violent fascist thugs led by the Donald himself.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 15, 2017, 10:20:12 AM
http://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/08/15/do-you-even-history-bruh-oliver-willis-gets-a-history-lesson-after-using-fdr-to-bash-trump/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: TommyGunn on August 15, 2017, 11:38:06 AM
Interesting...

The police chief of Charlottesville was on local radio yesterday...

He was essentially whitewashing the abject failure of police and National Guard to keep the two groups separated.

He didn't address the growing number of reports saying that police stood around with their thumbs in their assess and watched multiple clashes without doing anything.

But... he strongly inferred that violence was instigated from BOTH sides.

I thought that wasn't possible. I've been hearing repeatedly how that's simply not possible, that the left is nothing more than a loose confederation of peace loving, granola crunching hippies who were set upon by violent fascist thugs led by the Donald himself.

According to a Fox News reporter,   who was there,  when antifa started spraying tear gas,  the police  LEFT.  The reporter asked the police why they were leaving and was told it was getting too dangerous!
REALLY? 
I  thought it was the job of the police to maintain peace and order even if it meant  facing danger.....not to run away like cowards.
The police were more than incompetent.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: TommyGunn on August 15, 2017, 11:43:00 AM
Ok....posted it  and it disappeared....so  postedagain,,  and now a double post.  What the heck is with this site? ??? ???
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 15, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
According to a Fox News reporter,   who was there,  when antifa started spraying tear gas,  the police  LEFT.  The reporter asked the police why they were leaving and was told it was getting too dangerous!
REALLY? 
I  thought it was the job of the police to maintain peace and order even if it meant  facing danger.....not to run away like cowards.
The police were more than incompetent.
Just following orders.............
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 15, 2017, 06:53:53 PM
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19754/left-blames-trump-charlottesville-here-are-5-aaron-bandler
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: grampster on August 15, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
Sometimes I really think "they" want a race war.
To what end I can only guess.

One possibility is that the leftard elites know that the end result of a no *expletive deleted*it, full on race war will end very badly for the minorities on the receiving end of things. The real goal is the wholesale reduction in the number of minorities.

Well, it would reduce the need for a large .fedgov.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 15, 2017, 08:14:55 PM
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19754/left-blames-trump-charlottesville-here-are-5-aaron-bandler


Here's another hate crime Obama had the chance to respond to. This was, I believe, after Obama had gone public with his own support for same-sex marriage.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/15/5-year-frc-shooting-anniversary-offers-study-presidential-reactions-hate-crimes/
Quote
The next day, Carney was asked if the president considered the Family Research Council shooting a hate crime. “Those kinds of determinations will be made by the FBI, and I know the FBI is part of this investigation,” said Carney, despite the fact the FBI affidavit detailing Corkins’ motivations was already widely available. Aside from reporting on Corkins’ statement about politics before the shooting and reporting “Corkins’ parents informed the FBI Special Agents that Corkins has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner.”

Much of the ensuing media coverage ignored or downplayed Corkins’ motives, which the Washington Post referred to as “a detail sure to reignite the culture wars.” A year later, Southern Poverty Law Center founder Morris Dees was still publicly defending the inclusion of Family Research Council on the organization’s “hate map.”

just a detail...
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Cliffh on August 15, 2017, 10:54:36 PM
Quote
According to a Fox News reporter,   who was there,  when antifa started spraying tear gas,  the police  LEFT.  The reporter asked the police why they were leaving and was told it was getting too dangerous!
REALLY?
I  thought it was the job of the police to maintain peace and order even if it meant  facing danger.....not to run away like cowards.
The police were more than incompetent.

End of shift, had to go home?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: DittoHead on August 16, 2017, 09:20:08 AM
I wish the tea party were more visibly active - they got a lot of flack in the media but I would still much prefer they were out there as the public face of the "extreme right wing" instead of these guys.  =(

Quote from: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450501/white-nationalists-alt-right-vague-grievances-what-do-they-want
What does an angry white boy want? The fact that they get together to play dress-up — to engage in a large and sometimes murderous game of cowboys and Indians — may give us our answer. They want to be someone other than who they are. That’s the great irony of identity politics: They seek identity in the tribe because they are failed individuals. They are a chain composed exclusively of weak links. What they are engaged in isn’t politics, but theater: play-acting in the hopes of achieving catharsis.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 16, 2017, 09:29:18 AM
The only reason the scumbag neo-nazis and KKK dooshbags are being portrayed as the face of the conservative/right is because that is the media narrative.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: DittoHead on August 16, 2017, 10:08:42 AM
The only reason the scumbag neo-nazis and KKK dooshbags are being portrayed as the face of the conservative/right is because that is the media narrative.

I'm not saying they should be, but the reality is that they are (and Trump is not helping much in that regard). If you asked people ~5 years ago they would probably identify the Tea Party and Occupy Wallstreet as the fringes of the parties. Today it's the neo nazis & the antifa.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 16, 2017, 10:18:36 AM
I wish the tea party were more visibly active - they got a lot of flack in the media but I would still much prefer they were out there as the public face of the "extreme right wing" instead of these guys.  =(

First:  Calling them "right wing" is a media narrative thing.  They are not right wing.  They are just leftists who hate different people.  In other words, "useful idiots".  The organizer of the white supremacist march is a former Obama supporter and leftist protester.  

Second:  Even if the Tea Party was active, they would either be ignored or labeled and racist nazis and treated as if they were in the same group that did the protest.  The media is riding this narrative as far as they can and they aren't going to let anything cause them to deviate.  Blame the media for this, not the Tea Party.  The media is an active political entity.  They have stopped simply reporting news in case you hadn't noticed.

Third:  Right now there is very little on TV news that I consider useful information.  Don't let all the BS on the 24 hour news mess with your thinking.  Just about everyone on those channels are either leftists or never-Trumper types who don't like him and most of the discussion is meaningless drivel.    
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 16, 2017, 10:27:31 AM
I'm not sure to what extent the Tea Party is/was seen as a fringe group, and I'm not sure Occupy is much diffrent from Antifa. The main difference I see is that Antifa violence is done in public, rather than being committed inside a tent, against the girls within their own movement.

Sad as it is to say, given the circumstances, I'm not sure the Tea Party protests were much better for the right's image than the horrors that went on in Charlottesville. Demanding lower tax rates is portrayed as racism, and Republican health care reform is portrayed as attempted genocide. The right, and "alt-right," were already blamed for violence - even when it's violence against Republicans.


Quote from: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450501/white-nationalists-alt-right-vague-grievances-what-do-they-want
What does an angry white boy want? The fact that they get together to play dress-up — to engage in a large and sometimes murderous game of cowboys and Indians — may give us our answer. They want to be someone other than who they are. That’s the great irony of identity politics: They seek identity in the tribe because they are failed individuals. They are a chain composed exclusively of weak links. What they are engaged in isn’t politics, but theater: play-acting in the hopes of achieving catharsis.


As this guy (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/white-riot-theory/) points out, that would be an apt description of much of the protest/riot class, on "all sides." Including the white Black Lives Matter tools I've been seeing on street corners here in the past couple of months.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 16, 2017, 10:27:53 AM
I'm not saying they should be, but the reality is that they are (and Trump is not helping much in that regard). If you asked people ~5 years ago they would probably identify the Tea Party and Occupy Wallstreet as the fringes of the parties. Today it's the neo nazis & the antifa.
If the media did a poll right now on that subject, it would show exactly what they want you to see.  Be careful how much you believe what you are seeing on the news.  IMO, always be a little suspicious.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: DittoHead on August 16, 2017, 10:59:26 AM
First:  Calling them "right wing" is a media narrative thing.  They are not right wing.  They are just leftists who hate different people.  In other words, "useful idiots".  The organizer of the white supremacist march is a former Obama supporter and leftist protester.  
They may not belong on the right, but they LOVE Trump (http://www.weeklystandard.com/white-house-watch-trump-and-the-very-fine-people-who-march-with-neo-nazis/article/2009314) and he is the face of the right. Maybe he shouldn't be and I certainly wish he wasn't but wishing doesn't change reality. The march was called "Unite the Right" and I doubt it was filled with Obama (or Hillary) supporters, these people seem to think they belong on the right. I also doubt it was all Jewish actors (http://www.newsweek.com/nazis-charlottesville-were-jewish-actors-dressed-discredit-white-supremacists-650718) or paid stooges for that matter. [tinfoil]

Third:  Right now there is very little on TV news that I consider useful information.  Don't let all the BS on the 24 hour news mess with your thinking.  Just about everyone on those channels are either leftists or never-Trumper types who don't like him and most of the discussion is meaningless drivel.    
I don't watch the TV news so don't worry, they haven't gotten into my brain.

Sad as it is to say, given the circumstances, I'm not sure the Tea Party protests were much better for the right's image than the horrors that went on in Charlottesville. Demanding lower tax rates is portrayed as racism, and Republican health care reform is portrayed as attempted genocide.
I think there's a huge difference between being (incorrectly or not) associated with a group who is portrayed as racist but has goals I agree with and being associated with a group that is ACTUALLY racist scum. Give me the tea party over neo-nazis any day.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 16, 2017, 11:15:20 AM
They may not belong on the right, but they LOVE Trump (http://www.weeklystandard.com/white-house-watch-trump-and-the-very-fine-people-who-march-with-neo-nazis/article/2009314) and he is the face of the right. Maybe he shouldn't be and I certainly wish he wasn't but wishing doesn't change reality. The march was called "Unite the Right" and I doubt it was filled with Obama (or Hillary) supporters, these people seem to think they belong on the right. I also doubt it was all Jewish actors (http://www.newsweek.com/nazis-charlottesville-were-jewish-actors-dressed-discredit-white-supremacists-650718) or paid stooges for that matter. [tinfoil]
The one who organized it is a leftist.  Given the motivations of the left these days, I would expect them to try to portray themselves as Trump supporters.  If some actual Trump supporters bought into what they were selling, they qualify for the "useful idiots" label.  The Democrat Party has always been the party of racism. 
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 16, 2017, 11:33:07 AM
I guess I have gotten to dislike the tendency to wonder what we could do to get the media reporting on our side.  IMO, that is a trap and will get you nowhere.  Republican establishment types have been falling into that trap for decades.
Title: Re:
Post by: Boomhauer on August 16, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
This kind of *expletive deleted*it is going to get Innocents killed.  https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/left-wing-activists-target-professor-who-wasnt-in-charlottesville/



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 16, 2017, 01:34:13 PM
I think there's a huge difference between being (incorrectly or not) associated with a group who is portrayed as racist but has goals I agree with and being associated with a group that is ACTUALLY racist scum. Give me the tea party over neo-nazis any day.


Obviously, I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be better to have Tea Party protests, rather than a march/riot/homicide by fake conservatives. I'm just not so sure if this tragic event is hurting the right's image to such a great degree, compared to the usual character assassination that goes on.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 16, 2017, 04:43:02 PM
Please don't talk about the local police being incompetent.

The local police who were on the ground that day are pissed. They were ORDERED to stand down and not get involved.

State and Albermarle county cops who were on hand to help where expressly told to stand back.

and yes, I have this straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

The city will not be getting any more aid from the county cops in these kinds of events. Unlike the City, the guy in charge of our police force isn't a puppet of stupid politicians (and I have a feeling even the puppet may have seen the light)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 16, 2017, 04:49:10 PM
The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 16, 2017, 05:02:12 PM
The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.

It pretty much is a crime. The fascists have won in C-ville and, unsurprisingly, it's not the ones being talked about. This actually came up multiple times at work today. My one boss will no longer post about the subject on FB because we could potentially lose too much business. My other boss has openly acknowledged that she needs to keep her mouth shut. One customer who is on the same page as us on the subject stated outright that he knows they don't dare say anything openly or they'll end up out of business and he was also upset that he has to keep his own mouth shut, or he could lose his job.
One word of even questioning the actions of any counter protesters and you're instantly labeled "racist nazi".
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Angel Eyes on August 16, 2017, 05:19:12 PM
The Atlantic has made up a new category:  "sub-military firearms" in their latest screed against open carry:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/open-carry-laws-mean-charlottesville-could-have-been-graver/537087/

Weren't a number of people (not police) carrying at Charlottesville?  Anybody notice that not a single shot was fired?

Is the Dodge Challenger a sub-military vehicle?

Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 16, 2017, 05:29:08 PM
The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.

I have to say, watching the media fallout, I'm with you. Were there violent nazis present? Absolutely. There were also violent antifas there.

People from both sides started violence. Trump called it. Also as I mentioned previously, the MSM and the left have been completely off the rails regarding all the guns on hips on Saturday, talking about these "armed aggressors", yet not a single shot was fired. In the meantime, antifas showed up in force at that poor woman's funeral with shields and baseball bats.

Also I see today that the calls are starting for the removal of George Washington and Andrew Jackson statues. Trump called it. In the meantime, the Lincoln memorial was vandalized because all those old white guys are alike. Public education strikes again.

Also I see that the left is not letting a crisis go to waste by now pushing for "all these whities are alike" and stating that if you're pro-life, you're a nazi. In the meantime, one of the lefty MSM outlets was praising Iceland yesterday because they are "eliminating Down Syndrome" through abortion. Hello Eugenics. Patricia Heaton said it best - "Iceland isn't actually eliminating Down Syndrome. They're just killing everybody that has it. Big difference."
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 16, 2017, 05:53:16 PM
I'm old enough to remember when denouncing hatred and violence (as Donald Trump did in his first comments on Charlottesville) was seen as denouncing hatred and violence; not endorsing it. Maybe I should go ahead and announce my support for both hatred and violence, just so no one thinks I actually do support it.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Scout26 on August 16, 2017, 05:54:51 PM
TO quote one of my favorite philosophers.  "It's my estimation that every man ever got a'statue made of him was one kind of sommbitch or another."

A pox on both houses.  Trump was right.  Both sides committed violence and are hate groups.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 16, 2017, 06:33:16 PM

More proof of the dangerous, right-wingery racism in our country:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/obamas-charlottesville-tweet/index.html

Quote
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..."

The above quotation from Nelson Mandela, which served as Barack Obama's response to the news from Charlottesville, is Twitter's most-liked tweet EVER. EVAH!

We note that, at least in this tweet, Mr. Obama refused to specifically denounce Kluckers, White Nationalists, Nazis, Antifa - or anyone, for that matter. We can only conclude that everyone who liked this tweet are white nationalist NRA members.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: freakazoid on August 16, 2017, 07:19:28 PM
One side committed violence, the other side was simply very willing and ready to defend against it.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: TommyGunn on August 16, 2017, 08:02:56 PM
One side committed violence, the other side was simply very willing and ready to defend against it.

Which is why they arrived armed with shields, helmets,  and two by fours.....
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: zxcvbob on August 16, 2017, 10:39:31 PM
My 'lustrious CEO was on Trump's business council.  She sent an email to all employees today telling us how they disbanded the council.  You can read it on Fortune (http://fortune.com/2017/08/16/ibm-ginni-rometty-trump-forum/).

I was so tempted to reply to her; something about good riddance, that all they wanted to do was increase the number of H-1B visas so they could put more US workers out on the streets.  Instead, I just reported it as spam and deleted it before it got me in trouble.  I may still get in a little trouble for the spam thing.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Scout26 on August 16, 2017, 10:46:30 PM
Understand what the goal of Anti-fa/Leftists/Masked f*expletive deleted*tards are:

Pull down statues of Confederates because Slavery Bad.

Therefore, we must pull down Statues of the Founding Fathers....because Slavery Bad.

Since Founding Fathers were Bad, then the ideas encapsulated in the DoI and US Constitution are Bad because Slavery.

Once they get to the point of taking down/away that final Document, then they will have achieved Obama's stated goal of "Fundamentally transforming the United States of America" into Venezuelan/North Korean, etc. style Socialist Hellhole.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 17, 2017, 06:53:08 AM
Understand what the goal of Anti-fa/Leftists/Masked *expletive deleted*tards are:

Pull down statues of Confederates because Slavery Bad.

Therefore, we must pull down Statues of the Founding Fathers....because Slavery Bad.

Since Founding Fathers were Bad, then the ideas encapsulated in the DoI and US Constitution are Bad because Slavery.

Once they get to the point of taking down/away that final Document, then they will have achieved Obama's stated goal of "Fundamentally transforming the United States of America" into Venezuelan/North Korean, etc. style Socialist Hellhole.

I think you're onto something. I'm not in favor of pulling down statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, et al all over the country, but I understand how some people might want that. But when it comes to removing statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, now they're obviously heading deep into revisionist history territory. Once the statues are gone, they'll demand that those old, white faces be removed from our coinage and from our paper currency. Then they'll be removed from the history books. And in another generation, nobody will know or remember how this country was founded. The only names that will be allowed will be people like George Washington Carver and Ponce de Leon.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 17, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
I can't figure out if this is more like McCarthyism or more like the brown shirts "outing" Jews. From the little info in the article, this guy could be many of us here, who have no time for supremacists, but are simply against revisionist history. 

It's interesting that most of these doxxing-like incidents have so far gone after people in dockers and polos vs guys in militia gear or those wearing pointy hats.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/17/virginia-rally-participant-receives-death-threats-says-was-there-to-preserve-history.html

Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 17, 2017, 11:14:06 AM
They say that those who do not learn from History will end up repeating it.  How does that work when today we have people wanting to wipe out all mention of slavery? 
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2017, 11:28:32 AM
They claim history is written by the winners. But if the losing side can't manage to publish their own history, how are they able to erect statues to it?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: zxcvbob on August 17, 2017, 11:55:32 AM
They say that those who do not learn from History will end up repeating it.  How does that work when today we have people wanting to wipe out all mention of slavery? 

Those in control *want* to bring back slavery.  Many of the rest are just useful idiots.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 17, 2017, 12:35:08 PM
One of my Facebook friends (horrifically liberal, it would appear) posted a meme about how 407,000 Americans died fighting Fascism, and Trump is spitting on them by allowing the Nazis to march across America...

I guess he didn't know about the ACLU's role in making it possible for the Nazis to march and display Nazi symbols.

He does now, and I bet he's not liking it one bit to think that it was the ACLU hocking loogies long before Trump ever entertained a run for the presidency.




Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: RoadKingLarry on August 17, 2017, 12:36:36 PM
As long as we're tearing down offensive statues

http://conservativefighters.com/news/since-tearing-offensive-statues-locations-3-communist-statues-america/ (http://conservativefighters.com/news/since-tearing-offensive-statues-locations-3-communist-statues-america/)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: DittoHead on August 17, 2017, 12:53:17 PM
The one who organized it is a leftist.  Given the motivations of the left these days, I would expect them to try to portray themselves as Trump supporters. 
Since you advised always being a little suspicious... do you have any more info regarding the organizer? The only thing I could find was second hand rumor & message board 'suspicion' reported by the SPLC of all places.

and since I mentioned the Tea Party earlier, I happened to come across this tidbit today:
Quote from: http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/16/donald-trump-needs-to-not-be-president-yesterday/
As to whether any hapless moderates strolled in there thinking this was just about the statue—well, I live in this area and used to be active in the local Tea Party group. I know people who are not white nationalists who oppose the removal of the statues based on high-minded ideas about preserving history. None of them were there, and if they had been, they would have bolted the moment they saw a bunch of guys with torches chanting “Blood and soil.”
As one would hope, they had the good sense to stay away from these "alt right" imbeciles despite sharing some common ground on the statues.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 17, 2017, 01:17:42 PM
Since you advised always being a little suspicious... do you have any more info regarding the organizer? The only thing I could find was second hand rumor & message board 'suspicion' reported by the SPLC of all places.

and since I mentioned the Tea Party earlier, I happened to come across this tidbit today:As one would hope, they had the good sense to stay away from these "alt right" imbeciles despite sharing some common ground on the statues.
I thought the one link was actually trying to explain how the guy went from Obama supporter to his current view.

It has been only a few days.  Most of the stories that are against the primary narrative take time to circulate.  I have yet to see anything that disproves what we are talking about.  Most new information is confirming.

Bill Frady interviewed someone who was supposedly a journalist who talked about the police pulling back when the violence initially started.  Then he pointed out the two groups were herded together by police when they were trying to push them out of the area.  Never made any attempt to separate the groups.  I kind of wonder what this would look like if the one guy didn't drive a car into a crowd.  

I am not trying to claim ALL people with white nationalist views are leftists.  I figure you could find them in across the spectrum depending on how you defined it.  Given that we already know that leftists have funded and organized many of the protests/riots over the last 10 years in this country, starting with the assumption that this was staged is not a big leap.  
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: zxcvbob on August 17, 2017, 02:09:27 PM
I think you're onto something. I'm not in favor of pulling down statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, et al all over the country, but I understand how some people might want that. But when it comes to removing statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, now they're obviously heading deep into revisionist history territory. Once the statues are gone, they'll demand that those old, white faces be removed from our coinage and from our paper currency. Then they'll be removed from the history books. And in another generation, nobody will know or remember how this country was founded. The only names that will be allowed will be people like George Washington Carver and Ponce de Leon.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/16/rahm-emanuel-urged-by-chicago-pastor-to-remove-geo/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2017, 02:29:38 PM
One of my Facebook friends (horrifically liberal, it would appear) posted a meme about how 407,000 Americans died fighting Fascism, and Trump is spitting on them by allowing the Nazis to march across America...

I guess he didn't know about the ACLU's role in making it possible for the Nazis to march and display Nazi symbols.

He does now, and I bet he's not liking it one bit to think that it was the ACLU hocking loogies long before Trump ever entertained a run for the presidency.

Your lefty friends need to start some kind of support group for the trauma you inflict on them. Then again, they probably already have a regular cuddle puddle group...


Oh, hey, did you ask your little friend if he was OK with the Nation of Islam going out and demonstrating?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam#Teachings_on_race
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: makattak on August 17, 2017, 03:39:04 PM
One thing on all of this I'm noticing?

Police are more than willing to follow orders to do nothing, even when innocents will be hurt (or killed.) So, it's great that they were all annoyed that they were told not to do their jobs. But they dutifully followed those orders.

(And, if the report from one of the alt-right morons is to be believed1, the police DID actively push the groups together to create this situation.)





1: Note that I'm not believing it. I'm also not disbelieving it because his credibility is about the same as major media's.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2017, 03:58:00 PM
Given that anything Trump says will be used against him, I think he should now limit his public remarks to strings of the words "covfefe" and "bigly."
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 17, 2017, 05:32:57 PM
Given that anything Trump says will be used against him, I think he should now limit his public remarks to strings of the words "covfefe" and "bigly."

One of our presidents from long ago said something about speaking softly and carrying a big stick. I wonder what would happen if the White House (and the President himself) were to suddenly go dark for ... oh, maybe a month, for starters. Not say anything for the public, just sit in the office, call congresscritters, veto legislation, and issue executive orders unraveling the swamp.

The media would go nuts (okay, more nuts).
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2017, 07:22:50 PM
http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/08/17/start-throwing-rocks-in-washington-post-professor-urges-direct-action-to-defeat-white-supremacy/

"Defeat white supremacy"? How do you defeat something that's practically dead?


http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/politics/what-is-alt-left/index.html?sr=twCNN081617what-is-alt-left0639AMVODtop

Quote
What's the 'alt-left'? Experts say it's a 'made-up term'

So, coining terminology is now just making up words. Republicans are so stupid. They can't possibly be re-purposing popular terminology for their own usage. It's just another covfefe, everybody.

That's the kind of dishonesty I'm sure we're all tired of. The "experts" know good and well that this isn't France. Words don't have to have government approval. They know it's just an agenda-driven non sequitur to claim that a newly-coined term is "made-up," while acknowledging that it's actually being used and understood.

Oh, and I stopped reading the article when I got here:

Quote
It's a "made-up term" used by people on the right to "suggest there is a similar movement on the left," Segal said.
But there's no equivalent with the anti-Semitic and bigoted groups that call themselves "alt-right", he said.

Oh, sure. If by that, you mean the alt-right isn't nearly so well-established, well-funded, and well-organized as the alt-left. And doesn't control a major political party like the alt-left does.


Oh, and if they want a made-up word, how about "homophobia"?
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: TommyGunn on August 17, 2017, 07:34:00 PM
http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/08/17/start-throwing-rocks-in-washington-post-professor-urges-direct-action-to-defeat-white-supremacy/


"Defeat white supremacy"? How do you defeat something that's practically dead?

First you revive it so it's worth the cost of the bullet. [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Scout26 on August 17, 2017, 09:23:23 PM
The entire Alt-Right thing is a creation of the DNC/Hillary/media.  How many Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist attacks/protests/etc. have you heard of in the say 10 years prior to last year's election campaign?

And to say that a New York City Liberal is a Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist stretches all credibility.  (repeat a lie often enough and it becomes accepted as true)

But by constantly doing two things:

1.  Making the NN/WS "movement" to appear larger than it really was.  And)

2.  Constantly calling all Trump supporters racists, bigots, and xenophobes.

those disaffected are now able to find and gravitate to those groups as most young men want to be part of something bigger than themselves.  Something that will put meaning and purpose in their lives (Groups that do this well are the BSA, Street Gangs, the US Army, etc.)

Sadly, the alt-right boogieman that the Left and the DNC have created from, pretty much, whole cloth the "alt-right".   Every event I've seen invovling the "alt-right" have consisted of ~200-400 f*expletive deleted*tards.   

Even this most recent event.  The overhead picture I saw of the "alt-right" surrounding the Lee Statue (during the day), it looked like there were maybe 250 there.  (give or take ~50).

And if the media and Antifa, would have ignored it, then nothing would have happened.  No, counter-protest, no violence, no dead young lady.  No wall-to-wall media coverage.  And as a bonus, without the "attention", the next event would have been smaller.   Because who wants to pay a bunch of money to go somewhere and be ignored??

Now, that blood has been shed, there are an entirely new class of f*expletive deleted*tards, on both sides, that will attend the next protest, because "I can go there, help my [misguided] team, and maybe get famous."

A pox on both houses and the media.

Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on August 17, 2017, 09:53:11 PM
Quote
Even this most recent event.  The overhead picture I saw of the "alt-right" surrounding the Lee Statue (during the day), it looked like there were maybe 250 there.  (give or take ~50). 

The park isn't even big enough for much more than that. It's a tiny park.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Andiron on August 17, 2017, 09:59:03 PM
The alt right is largely a response to the far left.  It seems to have sprung up from the first Berkeley riot, and just gained momentum from there.  Based Stickman and all that.  Can't recall them prior to that. 

And I really can't fault a bunch of people responding in kind to a bunch of Marxists macing and beating everyone they disagree with.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Scout26 on August 17, 2017, 10:11:25 PM
The alt right is largely a response to the far left.  It seems to have sprung up from the first Berkeley riot, and just gained momentum from there.  Based Stickman and all that.  Can't recall them prior to that. 

And I really can't fault a bunch of people responding in kind to a bunch of Marxists macing and beating everyone they disagree with.

Correct, that's when there were actually "alt-right" people.  Before that, during the campaign, it was "MAGA is a dog whistle to the alt-right."   "Trump's speech was red-meat for his NN/WS/AR supporters."  The press kept playing up the Trump=Alt-right, Neo-Nazi, White Supremacists support(ers) and connections (much like how it became "Russia, Russia, Russia" after 20 Jan.)  Now, it's going to be "Alt-Right, Neo-Nazi, White-Supremacist", need for a special counsel and impeachment.  Russia, will fade into the background as the media and the left (but I repeat myself) have a new cudgel to use on President Trump.   
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: DittoHead on August 17, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
The entire Alt-Right thing is a creation of the DNC/Hillary/media.
Correct, that's when there were actually "alt-right" people. 
huh? Are these real people with real beliefs or not?  ???
I'm still confused if they are totally made up "fake news", or leftists who think they belong on the right, or leftists who pretend they belong on the right, or what.
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2017, 10:23:38 PM
What first Berkeley riot? The one in February?

Then Andiron is wrong. The term cropped up on this forum at least as far back as June 2016.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=52039.0


Also, I have to once again recommend this article about how left-wing demonizing of white people encouraged white nationalism.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/23/how-anti-white-rhetoric-is-fueling-white-nationalism/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Frank Castle on August 17, 2017, 10:38:26 PM
Quote
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...

Jason Kessler, the man who helped organize Saturday's white nationalist "Unite the Right" event that erupted in violence, has come under the national spotlight because of his role in the ultimately deadly event and his subsequent need to flee a press conference after being attacked. According to some persistent "rumors," prior to his rise to prominence on the far-right, Kessler embraced the far-left Occupy Wall Street movement and was an Obama supporter.




http://www.dailywire.com/news/19747/reports-man-behind-unite-right-was-occupy-wall-james-barrett
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Scout26 on August 17, 2017, 11:03:06 PM
huh? Are these real people with real beliefs or not?  ???
I'm still confused if they are totally made up "fake news", or leftists who think they belong on the right, or leftists who pretend they belong on the right, or what.
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...
What they did was take a few; a very, very, very few, like less then a couple thousand people; in various scattered "groups"* of various repungent Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist groups and amplify their "presence" (ala Jews in Germany in the 1930's) as this huge movement that was responsible for Trump's election.  And therefore, if you voted for Trump with these vile racists, that made you one also.

I remember a several news stories about an Alt-Right "convention" at a hotel in DC, with them throwing up the Nazi Salute and screaming "Heil Trump".  This "convention" drew MAYBE 400 people.... Meanwhile, on the same weekend, at the hotel across the street, a Furry Convention drew over 4,000 attendees.

But if you listen to the MSM, the countryside outside of the leftwing enclaves of the larger cities is seething with bigots and racists just waiting for "People of Color" to get out of the metro areas, so the lynchings can begin by the members of the alt-right.  Because ANYONE that doesn't read the NYT and WaPo is a member of the alt-right.

I honestly wonder if the FBI dropped the ball on the Charleston shooter just to get the ball rolling on the entire Confederate thing.





*- The vast majority of these groups had memberships in the single digits.  They had been COINTELPRO'd and sued to near extinction by the mid 1970's.  Only the Internet in the late 1990's gave them a platform to espouse their vile views.  But again, they existed at the extreme far margins of the internet.  And were more of a punchline then a real threat or presence.   All that changed with Trump and his nomination and the media blowing their influence far out of proportion.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 18, 2017, 12:12:58 AM
So now Pelosi is leading a push for statue removal at the Capitol.

I'm trying to remember who was speaker of the house before the Rs took over. Why didn't she remove these "despicable" statues then?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/17/confederate-statue-furor-hits-us-capitol-as-pelosi-and-others-seek-removal.html
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: makattak on August 18, 2017, 08:26:46 AM
What they did was take a few; a very, very, very few, like less then a couple thousand people; in various scattered "groups"* of various repungent Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist groups and amplify their "presence" (ala Jews in Germany in the 1930's) as this huge movement that was responsible for Trump's election.  And therefore, if you voted for Trump with these vile racists, that made you one also.

I remember a several news stories about an Alt-Right "convention" at a hotel in DC, with them throwing up the Nazi Salute and screaming "Heil Trump".  This "convention" drew MAYBE 400 people.... Meanwhile, on the same weekend, at the hotel across the street, a Furry Convention drew over 4,000 attendees.

But if you listen to the MSM, the countryside outside of the leftwing enclaves of the larger cities is seething with bigots and racists just waiting for "People of Color" to get out of the metro areas, so the lynchings can begin by the members of the alt-right.  Because ANYONE that doesn't read the NYT and WaPo is a member of the alt-right.

I honestly wonder if the FBI dropped the ball on the Charleston shooter just to get the ball rolling on the entire Confederate thing.





*- The vast majority of these groups had memberships in the single digits.  They had been COINTELPRO'd and sued to near extinction by the mid 1970's.  Only the Internet in the late 1990's gave them a platform to espouse their vile views.  But again, they existed at the extreme far margins of the internet.  And were more of a punchline then a real threat or presence.   All that changed with Trump and his nomination and the media blowing their influence far out of proportion.

IIRC, it was actually "Bronies" which is an even smaller subset of "Furries". (And, no, I'm not going to try to confirm that.)

On the other hand, I am also willing to believe that white nationalists/supremacists/Nazis may be growing in number. As more white people start thinking of themselves as a "race" fringe groups that support that position will also see an increase in numbers.

This development is not a result of Trump. In fact, Trump and the (reported) growth of white racist groups are a result of the same impetus: reaction to the racism of the left favoring minorities and growing animosity from the leftists towards white people. (Note: While many minorities engage is this racism, most of that animosity comes from WHITE leftists, by dint of sheer numbers. It's okay, though. They are "woke" white people.)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 18, 2017, 08:47:58 AM
IIRC, it was actually "Bronies" which is an even smaller subset of "Furries". (And, no, I'm not going to try to confirm that.)


[shakes head] [questions whether he should bother with this] [decides to bother]

A furry is someone that enjoys dressing up as an animal. A brony is a male fan of My Little Pony. Two different things.

[shakes head again]


Speaking of furries:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DajKjOr4M
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 18, 2017, 08:59:44 AM
A little humor for an otherwise depressing topic. Chelsea Clinton weighs in:

http://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/08/18/could-it-be-satan-chelsea-clinton-compares-monuments-to-the-devil-gets-laughed-off-twitter/
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 18, 2017, 09:05:29 AM

Never stop tweeting, Chelsea.   :lol:
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 18, 2017, 10:21:14 AM

[shakes head] [questions whether he should bother with this] [decides to bother]

A furry is someone that enjoys dressing up as an animal. A brony is a male fan of My Little Pony. Two different things.

[shakes head again]


Different, but equally disturbing. And vaguely disgusting.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: makattak on August 18, 2017, 10:56:46 AM
A little humor for an otherwise depressing topic. Chelsea Clinton weighs in:

http://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/08/18/could-it-be-satan-chelsea-clinton-compares-monuments-to-the-devil-gets-laughed-off-twitter/

I can't find it now, but after a leftist said these were rebels to the United States, someone pointed out that Washington was a rebel to the British.

The clueless lib said "and they don't have statues of Washington in Britain."

ORLY (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Statue_of_George_Washington_outside_the_National_Gallery,_Trafalgar_Square,_London.jpg)?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Statue_of_George_Washington_outside_the_National_Gallery%2C_Trafalgar_Square%2C_London.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 18, 2017, 11:49:03 AM
Interesting.  I had no idea there was a statue of him there.
Title: Re: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: lupinus on August 18, 2017, 12:06:45 PM
I can't find it now, but after a leftist said these were rebels to the United States, someone pointed out that Washington was a rebel to the British.

The clueless lib said "and they don't have statues of Washington in Britain."

ORLY (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Statue_of_George_Washington_outside_the_National_Gallery,_Trafalgar_Square,_London.jpg)?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Statue_of_George_Washington_outside_the_National_Gallery%2C_Trafalgar_Square%2C_London.jpg)
So when can we expect all of the William Wallace statues to be torn down? Of a bunch of rioting English show up to tear down Wallace statues someone please hit the pause button so I can get some popcorn before the Scots show up to counter protest.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: K Frame on August 18, 2017, 12:29:05 PM
OMG, some of those responses to Little Hillary's tweet are hysterical!
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: MechAg94 on August 18, 2017, 01:16:49 PM
OMG, some of those responses to Little Hillary's tweet are hysterical!

There were some talking about her running for office.  I wouldn't want to see her win, but her on the campaign trail would be hilarious. 
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Hawkmoon on August 18, 2017, 07:16:17 PM
A little humor for an otherwise depressing topic. Chelsea Clinton weighs in:



Quote
The story of Lucifer-who rebelled against God-is part of many Christians' traditions. I've never been in a church with a Lucifer statue.

???

I thought it was part of every Christian's tradition. It is, after all, in the Bible ...
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: HeroHog on August 18, 2017, 07:45:40 PM
Ah, but we allow the Satanists to put them on their property and in their places of worship and homes and they are protected by our Constitution to do just that.
Title: Re:
Post by: lupinus on August 18, 2017, 07:48:43 PM
And, granted it's getting his ass kicked or being up to no good, plenty of churches do have images or figures of Lucifer present. And as HH points out outside of churches he's displayed all people like.

But, the left hasn't decided that image needs to be torn from the public eye.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 18, 2017, 11:57:48 PM
I thought it was part of every Christian's tradition. It is, after all, in the Bible ...


The details about Lucifer, if that name even refers to Satan, are not so cut and dried.

http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html
Title: Re:
Post by: KD5NRH on August 19, 2017, 12:48:37 AM
And, granted it's getting his ass kicked or being up to no good, plenty of churches do have images or figures of Lucifer present. And as HH points out outside of churches he's displayed all people like.

Le genie du mal comes to mind.  That one's more just sitting and sulking, though.
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Blakenzy on August 19, 2017, 04:21:47 AM
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/08/17/20170818_jobs.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: TommyGunn on August 19, 2017, 11:16:53 AM

The details about Lucifer, if that name even refers to Satan, are not so cut and dried.

http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html
Well, I always prefered the AKA of "Scratch,"  or "Beelzebub,"  myself.  They're sort of ...."homy." :lol: =D [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 26, 2017, 11:22:10 AM
I haven't seen this posted elsewhere, so:

CNN tries, fails, to get "average Americans" to be upset about Trump's "both sides" commentary. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHzhtteI8o#t=229.841)

 =D
Title: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
Post by: Ben on August 26, 2017, 11:50:43 AM
I haven't seen this posted elsewhere, so:

CNN tries, fails, to get "average Americans" to be upset about Trump's "both sides" commentary. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHzhtteI8o#t=229.841)

 =D


That's pretty amazing to me, mostly because it appears CNN failed in their vetting process for panelists.