Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on April 21, 2020, 07:21:08 PM

Title: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on April 21, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
Any of you guys have a log splitter? I'm thinking of getting one.

Originally, I didn't think I'd be cutting that much wood, and just figured on using my splitting maul for the exercise. Since then, I've cut about a cord that I've split that way, but now have nearly two more cords ready to split, and frankly, I'm tired. The exercise routine was fine for a cord's worth, but I've got too much other stuff to do around here to split more by hand.

I'm thinking of just getting one of those $1000 Tractor Supply 25 ton splitters when they go on sale and calling it good. Kind of a big up front expense, but renting one will run me $100 a day. I can buy a cord of split hardwood for $200. My estimate at this point is that I'll be getting a cord of wood a year just cleaning up my trees every Winter. This Winter I got the three cords because the previous owners left a bit of a mess and  I also took a couple of trees down. From here on out I plan on no more than a cord's worth of cleanup per year, since I have this three cord buffer now for wood stove burning.

I'm just thinking buying the splitter is the way to go and I just have to talk myself into it.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Jim147 on April 21, 2020, 08:58:16 PM
I split wood by had for more years than I can remember. I bout a onsale sears splitter in 2008 and can't believe I every did it by hand.

I've replace the carb and the lower pump seal. Maybe $30 in parts over the years beside regular maintenance.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 21, 2020, 09:05:51 PM
I've got a 22 ton Huskee that has powered through some pretty gnarly oak.
While I did experience an engine failure it was caused by external forces (squirrels) and not the fault of B&S.

My experience is in line with the reviews shown here -
https://www.firewood-for-life.com/huskee-log-splitter-review.html (https://www.firewood-for-life.com/huskee-log-splitter-review.html)

I truly enjoy spitting wood by hand with axe or maul, it just gives me a feeling of satisfaction but with the arthritis and related joint problems in my shoulders my axe swinging is going to be pretty severely limited going forward.

Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on April 21, 2020, 09:35:08 PM
I’ve split a bunch of firewood by hand. Never again.
I bartered for a lightly used 28 ton speeco horizontal/vertical and modded it with a welded log cradle.
The northern tool Honda powered Northstar brand are good if nothing else shows up in your area
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Nick1911 on April 21, 2020, 09:38:58 PM
I don't, but now that I find myself dealing with wood more, it's an eventuality.

I'd like to find a steal of a deal on one with a smoked engine or pump or something, but those deals are few and far between.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on April 21, 2020, 10:18:56 PM
I just saw that Harbor Freight has a a 20 ton Predator for $800 that you have to assemble. I recently got a Predator water pump and have been super impressed with that engine, so that might be a possibility. The Tractor Supply splitter uses a Kohler, but it gets good reviews.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on April 21, 2020, 10:46:49 PM
How about a 3 pt log splitter for your tractor?
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on April 21, 2020, 10:54:28 PM
How about a 3 pt log splitter for your tractor?

I didn't even know there was such an animal. Though this guy doesn't recommend them for smaller tractors because of the continuous flow. I'll check into other reviews and prices though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jObB6caU5J4
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Jim147 on April 21, 2020, 11:48:31 PM
Yeah I have a friend with a tractor splitter that he uses to make money all winter
Not sure what size tractor he has
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on April 22, 2020, 05:12:11 AM
The 3pt mounted splitters that run off the pto with a secondary pump are ok but it means the tractor is running all the time and not available to move logs or pull a trailer etc. The ones that use tractor hydro off rear remotes are really painfully slow. My neighbor has one and I see him getting loads of split wood delivered lately.
Personally I much prefer the self powered splitters.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: dogmush on April 22, 2020, 06:43:37 AM

I haven't used the HF Splitter, but I have a couple of their Preditor branded motors in other things, and they are part for part clones of Honda's.  (one of my Gens I have actually put Honda parts on for a repair) so they do tend to swing above their weight.  Just overlook the IP theft.

I would expect welding and powdercoating to be sub par at that price point.  The other thing I wonder about is to log splitters have a hardened wedge?  I have yet to find anything steel at HF that was hardened very well.  That's one spot where their cost cutting really shows.

The mentioned Northstar is $1500, but has a real Honda on it, and is probably a lot more durable.  We have a Northstar pressure washer at work that get's badly abused by the mechanics and has been really good.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on April 22, 2020, 10:16:52 AM
Whatever you end up with, get one that tips up so you can split big heavy stove length logs.

Also it's easiest to split wood on the coldest day of the year.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on April 22, 2020, 10:27:08 AM
Whatever you end up with, get one that tips up so you can split big heavy stove length logs.

Also it's easiest to split wood on the coldest day of the year.

That is one negative about the HF one, it doesn't tip up. Truthfully, I'm cutting more big limbs than whole tree trunks, so my average bucked log is maybe 8-10 inches, but the tree I just cut down had some ~24" bucked logs, and they're kinda heavy.  :laugh:

I'm going to have to try cold day splitting this coming Winter. For now, I have a big pile of bucked logs that I need to clear away, plus I might need some of them this Winter. This last season I used just about a cord, but that about depleted what I collected since I got here that is seasoned, and it was a mild Winter. This will be the first year that I'll have a stockpile for two seasons out.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on April 22, 2020, 10:35:39 AM
That is one negative about the HF one, it doesn't tip up. Truthfully, I'm cutting more big limbs than whole tree trunks, so my average bucked log is maybe 8-10 inches, but the tree I just cut down had some ~24" bucked logs, and they're kinda heavy.  :laugh:

I'm going to have to try cold day splitting this coming Winter. For now, I have a big pile of bucked logs that I need to clear away, plus I might need some of them this Winter. This last season I used just about a cord, but that about depleted what I collected since I got here that is seasoned, and it was a mild Winter. This will be the first year that I'll have a stockpile for two seasons out.

You ain't getting any younger, buy once, cry once. Plus if you drop a tree, you can split the big logs up on site.

Winter, colder the better for splitting, especially several days of below 20F. Freezes the water in the wood and it pops so easy.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on April 22, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
I have an old Sears that I bought at an auction over 20 years ago.  I forget the brand name but they were sold through Sears, Wards, Western Auto, John Deere and other places.  It's actually the first model sold to the public and it's only about 10 ton, and doesn't stand up. I modified it with bigger wheels and a stand in front to raise it up. It had a 5 HP B&S on it that worked fine, until I was using it down by the river and left it there. April 1997 we had a flood, and it was under 4 feet of water and ruined the engine. My small engine guy put a used tiller motor on it that used more oil than gas. I put up with that for a couple of years until one fall when it wouldn't run.  So I bit the bullet and ordered a brand new Honda engine.  It's been good since.

Before we built the new house, we were using about 3 cords a year, but our wood is mostly cottonwood and elm, so it works well.  Once in a while I'll get a crotch it won't power through, but I just throw those in the burn pile instead of fighting them.  I have split ash, walnut and black locust without any problems.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 11, 2022, 06:24:06 PM
So two years later, I finally bought a log splitter.  :rofl:

Well, not entirely true. When I started this thread, it somehow migrated into the discussion in another thread at the time that was all about, "don't buy Chinese". I was trying to make an ethical decision, and was taking my time, so I bought an interim electric 5 ton splitter for $300. That one was better than splitting by hand, but it had a lot of trouble with the gnarly Russian olive wood I have here, especially any green stuff, which I had better luck splitting by hand. It did make smaller (under 8") dry stuff get finished a lot quicker than by hand though.

Anyway, I finally had to fish or cut bait because I have a big pile of Russian olive that the tree guys left me last year, and it's all big stuff that I need to process so it doesn't rot. I went back to looking, and holy hell, prices have gone up like crazy in the last two years. Right around +60%. A fully USA splitter was simply out of budget. I started out looking at getting either a County Line 25 ton (Tractor Supply) or Champion 27 (sold at Home Depot). I drove back and forth between the two stores measuring and checking specs on the display splitters, as well as spending time on the interwebz. Which did I choose? Neither.  :laugh:

I also stopped at the D&B Supply, a local (Pacific Northwest) farm store, and they were selling Black Diamond splitters "designed in the USA" which I take to mean somewhat similar to the DeWalt line of USA tools. I was super impressed with the display splitters, which included models with Honda engines. Apparently they sell mostly to farm stores. I did a bunch of interwebbing, and ended up with their 28 ton Honda splitter. 2000 ducats (no tax, bought it in Oregon). I could have gotten their 37 ton splitter with a Briggs and Stratton, but other than my power washer, all my other small engines are Hondas, and I'm just impressed with them, so paid the upcharge. This was $500 more than the County Line and Champion splitters, but I think with the Honda and build quality, well worth it. From youtube videos, I also paid about $600 more than I would have if I bought it in 2020. C'est la vie.

They had already built ones ready to go, but youtube taught me that the 45mph rating is about 20mph overstated. Plus with no suspension, it was recommended that if you're driving more than a few miles (over 30 for me) you're gonna beat the crap out of it. Plus a point I hadn't thought of (that I learned when I built mine) mentioned on youtube that the kids at the stores who assemble these will often see the grease coating on the bearings and assume that's all the grease you need, versus filling the axle as well. Driving 30 miles dry would probably FUBAR the bearings.

So I had them pull a crated up unassembled one and drop it in my truck. I used lift straps and the loader to move it into the shop. Assembly was mostly straightforward other than instructions were lacking on hose hookups and such, but youtube to the rescue there. The hardest part was mounting the ram by myself. Of the 600ish pounds, the ram was easily 400. Lifting that up on it's end to pin into the trailer was not fun. But it came together, I filled everything with fluids (they threw in 5 gallons of hydro, and I needed the whole bucket, and I'm lucky I got it, because they were nearly out at the farm store) and started her up. Purrs like a kitten.

I was doing a little splitting today, and man, this thing is slicing through even a couple of green 18" logs from a tree I recently cut like it's going through butter. Not even a burp. I am really impressed, and between not swinging a maul and not destroying my back stooping over the little 5 ton anymore, doing firewood is going to be a pleasure. Money well spent.

This is the splitter:

https://www.mydbsupply.com/3633686/product/black-diamond-
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: JTHunter on May 11, 2022, 11:34:24 PM
Nice looking splitter Ben, but I have a question.  Can that assembly be tilted to the vertical so you don't have to lift the wood to be split so high off the ground?
I ask as I have an OLD splitter that uses a 110 AC motor to power the pump but it sits only ~8" off the ground and I just roll the logs onto the I-beam.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Nick1911 on May 11, 2022, 11:52:18 PM
Funny you bring this thread back up, Ben.  Earlier in it, I noted that a log splitter was an eventuality for me.  Well, I did end up with one.  A 30 ton Brute model.  Used, but like new and only a year old for $800.  Originally came from Menards.

Might be overkill, but I'm glad to have it.  I've been making some moves towards insulating myself from energy costs, and heating with wood is one of those.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Bogie on May 12, 2022, 12:10:06 AM
I have a buddy who has one that has a dealie that lifts the logs up to the cradle. That is SO kewl...
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: cordex on May 12, 2022, 01:24:28 AM
Coincidentally I got a brand new log splitter for next to nothing this month.

Nothing to brag about but the price - 20 ton horizontal with a no-name Chinese engine. Works pretty well for small stuff. Thankfully, my autumn olive is all too little to need splitting. It’ll mostly be doing sassafras, maple, and tulip poplar.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 07:47:04 AM
Nice looking splitter Ben, but I have a question.  Can that assembly be tilted to the vertical so you don't have to lift the wood to be split so high off the ground?
I ask as I have an OLD splitter that uses a 110 AC motor to power the pump but it sits only ~8" off the ground and I just roll the logs onto the I-beam.


Yup, tilts vertical and came with a cradle, which are both very convenient.

"8 inches off the ground". Yeah, my electric is about the same height. That was almost harder on my back than swinging a maul.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 07:55:57 AM
Nick and Cordex: Thumbs up on the deals you guys got! I swear, I have some kind of anti-deal cloud that follows me around and constantly rains anti-deal raindrops on me. I think I have no more than twice in my entire life ever stumbled on a good used deal on something. I'm really good at stumbling into crap deals, which is why I've about given up on looking.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on May 12, 2022, 08:42:29 AM
You're not karate chopping your logs?

Pussy.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
Ben, you’ll be very happy with your machine. Honda power is great.
Change your hydrolic oil filter and synthetic engine oil annually, keep it under a roof and it will outlast you.
I have split up to 38” oak rounds on mine. I had to use the loader to skid them into it when set up vertically.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2022, 09:02:05 AM
Oh and before I bought the grapple loader I found one of those log tongs pretty handy too. Still use them some. Assuming you have chain hooks or a ring on your bucket?
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Bogie on May 12, 2022, 09:54:44 AM
We used hydraulics to run molds - the mold cavity WILL close... I wonder how hard it would be to weld something  up with a nice big pump and ram...
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2022, 10:59:34 AM
We used hydraulics to run molds - the mold cavity WILL close... I wonder how hard it would be to weld something  up with a nice big pump and ram...
A lot of people have done just that. Many of them function ok.
With material costs I’m not sure you could save enough to bother.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Nick1911 on May 12, 2022, 11:03:43 AM
A lot of people have done just that. Many of them function ok.
With material costs I’m not sure you could save enough to bother.

^^ This

Unless you've got access to a scrap pile for free/cheap, it's not worth it.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 11:05:29 AM
Assuming you have chain hooks or a ring on your bucket?

I don't. If I were a better welder to where I could trust the welds, I'd add some, but right now I tilt the bucket all the way down to eliminate edges that could fray the straps,  then wrap the straps and/or a chain around the bucket and shackle whatever load I have.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2022, 01:32:58 PM
I don't. If I were a better welder to where I could trust the welds, I'd add some, but right now I tilt the bucket all the way down to eliminate edges that could fray the straps,  then wrap the straps and/or a chain around the bucket and shackle whatever load I have.
I bought my loader tractor used from my neighbor. He wasn’t much of a welder but he had somebody weld chain hooks on 2 rectangular steel plates then drilled and bolted the plates to the top of the bucket (in line with the frame and rams). I later welded a loop in the center out of 5/8” round for lifting with straps or chain.
My bucket is a heavy duty bucket so not likely I’ll give it the classic center pucker.
 I know you can get bolt on hooks somewhere.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: cordex on May 12, 2022, 01:34:33 PM
I know you can get bolt on hooks somewhere.
Yeah, I bought some on Amazon (for a non-tractor use).  Plenty available there.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 01:38:42 PM
I'll have to look into bolt-ons for the top of the bucket. Hooks would definitely save me some aggravation. I use the bucket as a lift a lot more than I thought I would.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on May 12, 2022, 01:56:58 PM
I'll have to look into bolt-ons for the top of the bucket. Hooks would definitely save me some aggravation. I use the bucket as a lift a lot more than I thought I would.

You can get clamp on forks for a bucket too. I used those last fall on a skid loader to unload 2-1 ton pallets of bear bait.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on May 12, 2022, 01:58:35 PM
We used hydraulics to run molds - the mold cavity WILL close... I wonder how hard it would be to weld something  up with a nice big pump and ram...

I remember as a kid that most of the hydraulic log splitters were home built, I remember seeing hydraulic parts kits for sale in various outdoor or Mother Earth News type magazines.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: dogmush on May 12, 2022, 01:59:12 PM
I'll have to look into bolt-ons for the top of the bucket. Hooks would definitely save me some aggravation. I use the bucket as a lift a lot more than I thought I would.

Or practice your welding....


No snark there at all, I'd much rather have welded hooks for lifting then blow a hole in the bucket and bolt them on.  If you don't trust your current welding skilz, get a box of rod and some scrap steel and get better.  (or a MIG.  Any monkey can weld with a MIG.)  It's not rocket surgery.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 02:30:24 PM
Or practice your welding....


No snark there at all, I'd much rather have welded hooks for lifting then blow a hole in the bucket and bolt them on.  If you don't trust your current welding skilz, get a box of rod and some scrap steel and get better.  (or a MIG.  Any monkey can weld with a MIG.)  It's not rocket surgery.

I could use more practice. I have both a stick and MIG welder and have done good welds with the MIG welder, like welding a trailer together, that have held for a long while now. I'm just a little scared when it comes to something like hooks that might be lifting a couple thousand pounds.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 02:35:58 PM
You can get clamp on forks for a bucket too. I used those last fall on a skid loader to unload 2-1 ton pallets of bear bait.

Funny, I was just researching those the other day. I was a little leery of weight capacity on bigger stuff, but it seems they should handle under 1000lb fine. I see them rated over that, but I think that definitely requires ballast on the three point for a little 35hp tractor like I have. My bucket is rated for 2300lb, and when I have it full of dirt, I like to have the boxblade on the back, especially on uneven terrain.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: dogmush on May 12, 2022, 02:36:32 PM
I could use more practice. I have both a stick and MIG welder and have done good welds with the MIG welder, like welding a trailer together, that have held for a long while now. I'm just a little scared when it comes to something like hooks that might be lifting a couple thousand pounds.

Well sure, that's understandable, but it's better than lifting on bolts.

Just don't stand under it the first couple times.   >:D >:D


FWIW, when I was learning to weld, I would weld stuff up, then test it to destruction so I knew that a weld that felt and looked like "A" would withstand "B" forces.  It's come in handy since.  Since you have hydraulics and time available, you might try something similar.  Weld up a hook or something on a piece of heavy channel, then pull it apart with your tractor (or shiny new log splitter).  See what it'll do.  Gain skillz and confidence.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Bogie on May 12, 2022, 04:36:20 PM
That steel doesn't need to be new either... Used structural stuff, junkyard, whatever, at scrap value?
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 09:46:09 PM

FWIW, when I was learning to weld, I would weld stuff up, then test it to destruction so I knew that a weld that felt and looked like "A" would withstand "B" forces.  It's come in handy since.  Since you have hydraulics and time available, you might try something similar.  Weld up a hook or something on a piece of heavy channel, then pull it apart with your tractor (or shiny new log splitter).  See what it'll do.  Gain skillz and confidence.

That's a good idea. I just a few days ago found like a 10' length of what looks to be 1/4" channel stock hiding in some weeds I was removing. A little rusty, but looks to be in good enough shape for such practice/testing.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on May 12, 2022, 10:18:04 PM
Good old 6010 or 6013 rod will burn through rust, paint, manure and crud.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Bogie on May 12, 2022, 11:58:26 PM
Personally, I just use a $200 wire welder I got from China Fright... Overall, not bad for 1/4" and thinner. My next door neighbor, a retired boilermaker, welded up his porch rail out of 1/4" thick tube with one of the little $100 ones - you just have to know your equipment's limitations, and stay within them.
 
I'm thinking I could easily turn a "wood grenade" sort of thing on the lathe, maybe with a little milling after the fact to square it up a bit. I wouldn't be heat treating it, but would it really need it?
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 16, 2022, 04:40:59 PM
I had to necro the thread, because, man, why didn't I buy this thing years ago?!?

I did my annual trip to the local post and pole and hit their firewood pile, made up of lodgewood pine ends from their mill. All have been processed down to rounds, 4"-10" in diameter, and cut mostly to fireplace length. It costs me $50 ($30 last year) to fill up the bed of the truck with basically bucked logs. This is the first year I split them with a real splitter.

It was practically fun, and I had the whole shebang done in an hour. The combination of my old little electric splitter and a maul was closer to a day. This splitter is just one of the best purchases I have ever made for the farm. Easily worth twice what it cost me.  =)

Note before the back East guys chime in: Pine is just a wood that's used in the Northwest. We don't have as many hardwoods as you guys do. I mostly use it as kindling and to get the fire going. It's mixed in 25/75 with my Russian olive, which while decent firewood, is just not up to oak standard. The faster and hotter burning pine mixed in really helps get the larger olive logs going good and keeps the wood stove at closer to optimum temperature.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 16, 2022, 05:03:16 PM
"Note before the back East guys chime in:"

AH MAH GERDZ! YOU GONNA SET YOUR HOUSE ON FIRE AND YOU GONNA DIE!!!

I've had this discussion with a lot of people over the years who think burning a single pine log guarantees a chimney fire.

Season the *expletive deleted*it out of it, watch your stack temperature, and clean your chimney rigorously and you'll have no problems. You just won't get a ton of heat out of it compared to a lot of other woods.

I'd be less inclined to use pine in a fireplace indoors because of the amount of smoke it generates and its general propensity to pop and the inability to control flue temperature, but it certainly smells good.

Oh, and FYI? In the 1980s I spent a lot of time with families that used wood stoves for heating, and helped harvest a LOT of Gypsy Moth killed hardwood.

Most of the fires in stoves and fireplaces that were fueled primarily with maple and oak were started with pine kindling because it lit quickly and burned more than hot enough to get the larger chunks of hardwood going for the coal base.

Same with coal stoves. Start the fire with pine, pile on some oak to get a good hot fire going, and then start adding anthracite once the coals are established.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 16, 2022, 05:33:02 PM
AH MAH GERDZ! YOU GONNA SET YOUR HOUSE ON FIRE AND YOU GONNA DIE!!!

I've had this discussion with a lot of people over the years who think burning a single pine log guarantees a chimney fire.

Season the *expletive deleted*it out of it, watch your stack temperature, and clean your chimney rigorously and you'll have no problems. You just won't get a ton of heat out of it compared to a lot of other woods.

Honestly, I was a little worried about using it when I first moved here. We used it at my folks place a lot, but in CA, you might have a half dozen fires a year before it gets too hot.  =D

This place is the first place where I have had a fire going more days than not from late Fall through Spring. I was concerned enough about both the pine and Russian olive that I had a chimney sweep come out the first year just to doublecheck everything and get a baseline (the chimney had practically nothing in it). Then I had him come out the next year, after I had burned the wood type and amount that is my "standard" now. Again, hardly anything in the chimney. He told me "See you in three years".

It's actually only been two, but because I'm a Nervous Nellie, he's coming out next week. He told me that if there was nothing to clean out again, that he'd only charge me half. I'd just rather be safe than sorry, but this certainly seems to be a very efficient wood stove. I keep a thermometer on the stove, so I think that helps me to keep it burning in the "goldilocks zone" and helps keep down soot and creosote. I also use a moisture meter on the wood to make sure I'm not throwing wet stuff in the stove. It's surprising how much wood I have that looks dry but ends up reading like 30% when you stick the probe in.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on September 16, 2022, 06:34:51 PM


Note before the back East guys chime in: Pine is just a wood that's used in the Northwest.

You burn what you got available.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 16, 2022, 06:51:18 PM
You burn what you got available.

I seem to recall that Alaskans predominately burn pine and softwoods. I've never heard of any data showing that they have noticeably more chimney fires than anyone else.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: charby on September 16, 2022, 07:16:33 PM
I seem to recall that Alaskans predominately burn pine and softwoods. I've never heard of any data showing that they have noticeably more chimney fires than anyone else.

A lot of pine and aspen is burned in the western great lakes too.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: dogmush on September 16, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
I seem to recall that Alaskans predominately burn pine and softwoods. I've never heard of any data showing that they have noticeably more chimney fires than anyone else.

Yep.  Scraggly, pitchy pine as well.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 17, 2022, 06:57:01 AM
The newer high-efficiency stoves burn a lot more cleanly, and that reduces the buildup of tar and creosote and really reduces the chance of a chimney fire.

The stuff in the smoke that would be deposited in the flue pipe ends up being burned in the stove before it can be exhausted. Great because you get more heat out of the wood you've cut, and great because you don't have to worry so much about chimney fires.

But the true key, as you know, is making sure that your wood isn't wet.


Pellet stoves burn wood, but they don't really have any problems with creosote and tar build up even though a lot of people burn softwood based pellets, including yellow and other resinous pines.

The main reasons for that are because the highly efficient nature of pellet stove designs and, during the pellet manufacturing process, free moisture in the wood is reduced to between 5 and 10 percent.

Don't mean you don't have to be careful and you still have to clean and inspect your flue.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on September 17, 2022, 09:58:21 AM

But the true key, as you know, is making sure that your wood isn't wet.

Don't mean you don't have to be careful and you still have to clean and inspect your flue.
My big 2 sided (pass through) fireplace is not efficient and hasn’t been cleaned in 12 years. Huge flue and triple wall stainless pipe (10”?) with no elbows.
Should I be worried?
I cut and stack my wood (90% oak 10% black walnut/locust) in a woodshed for a year or more. I make sure I have a good hot blaze at least a couple times a week. I inspect it every season but there is nothing to clean. I get about a cup of black sandy grit (kreosote) when I open the damper first time in the fall and that’s it.
I called a sweep a couple years ago but he said if I can’t see any buildup top or bottom then he didn’t think I needed him.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: zxcvbob on September 17, 2022, 10:11:44 AM
Good old 6010 or 6013 rod will burn through rust, paint, manure and crud.

I don't think a 6013 will, it's a shallow penetration rod often used for thin stock.  6010 or 6011 will work on dirty metal.  I can't remember the difference between 6010 and 6011; I think the coating is a little different and 6010 is better for DC.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 17, 2022, 10:13:17 AM
"Huge flue and triple wall stainless pipe (10”?) with no elbows."

Your open fireplace may not be efficient, but an insulated stainless steel liner? That's the absolute best thing to have, in my opinion.

Unlike a masonry chimney, which may never get up to a proper heat level that will keep creosote from forming because the stone/brick is a HUGE heat sink, an insulated (and triple wall construction gives it great insulating power) metal liner tends to get to, and stay at, proper heat levels (or even far above if you're a bonfire kind of guy).

The fact that you're burning well seasoned hardwood? Bonus.

And Locust? Excellent hardwood for fires. Burns long and hot and leaves an incredible bed of coals.


Now, that said, you really should have your chimney camera inspected every couple of years to make sure none of the joints have separated or that it hasn't developed a spontaneous split. Rare, but possible if there's an inherent flaw in the metal.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 17, 2022, 10:16:17 AM
At the very least I would do, or have done an inspection looking for buildup in the flu as well as material condition of the fireplace/stove.

Dry wood is the #1 preventer of flu problems. In my location (NE Oklahoma) it takes 2 years to dry dense woods like Oak to get them under a 20% moisture content. Ash, Hackberry and similar I can burn after a year of drying. I stack my firewood after it has been split in long single stacks elevated from the ground on treated 4X4 posts running N/S where the prevailing winds blows between the stacks. I will top cover the wood in mid September and begin moving wood into my shed in October.

One of the biggest problems I have with storing firewood more than 2 years is insect damage. I've seen 3-4 year old stacks of firewood nearly reduced to dust.
I'm not keen on treating my firewood with insecticides
https://howtogetridof.net/woodworm/
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 17, 2022, 10:18:07 AM
My big 2 sided (pass through) fireplace is not efficient and hasn’t been cleaned in 12 years. Huge flue and triple wall stainless pipe (10”?) with no elbows.
Should I be worried?
I cut and stack my wood (90% oak 10% black walnut/locust) in a woodshed for a year or more. I make sure I have a good hot blaze at least a couple times a week. I inspect it every season but there is nothing to clean. I get about a cup of black sandy grit (kreosote) when I open the damper first time in the fall and that’s it.
I called a sweep a couple years ago but he said if I can’t see any buildup top or bottom then he didn’t think I needed him.

My sweep seems to think that I'm a big worry wart, but I blame the interwebz. It's like 90% of the information out there all screams at you to clean the chimney once a year or else your house will burn down. If he only gets a handful of soot when he's out next week, and doesn't see any creosote buildup, I'm going to three years on the next one. And at that point it will be more about general inspection than anything else.

I would just inspect it myself except I have a steep roof and I'm too old for that *expletive deleted*it. If I'm going to break my neck I want it to be from doing something fun, not from work.  =D

Other than the steep roof, I would consider cleaning it myself too, as I always did that for my mom and dad. However they had an old Franklin stove that was pretty much a straight pass through to the stove. With these catalytic converter stoves, I don't even know how to clean all the way through without potentially breaking something where the pipe meets the stove when I'm shoving the broom down. My sweep has some nifty vacuuming contraption that blows the soot out the top of the pipe.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 17, 2022, 10:25:06 AM
One of the biggest problems I have with storing firewood more than 2 years is insect damage. I've seen 3-4 year old stacks of firewood nearly reduced to dust.
I'm not keen on treating my firewood with insecticides
https://howtogetridof.net/woodworm/

I'm trying to figure out what I have. I don't have an infestation by any means, but random logs in my woodshed will have little piles of dust below them where something has bored into the wood. We don't have termites here, so it's something else. I don't see a lot of it, but seeing any has me keeping the wood outside the house until I burn it. I usually transfer the wood from the shed to a big plastic bin with a lid on the back porch, then from there, I transfer a half dozen logs or so at a time into the house, where they get burned that same day. It seems to all be the Russian olive. I don't think I've seen any pine logs with it.

The logs where I see the little sawdust piles get kept out and used as firepit wood.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 17, 2022, 10:34:36 AM
I grew up in an area and at a time when (Central Pennsylvania, 1970s/1980s) when many people heated with wood stoves. The gypsy moth infestation made hardwood plentiful and cheap.

And in the area I grew up in, many of my friends lived on farmettes that had wood lots so their families had a ready supply of free firewood.

Many people were new to burning wood, and not everyone understood how to do it safely. Stoves weren't as efficient as they are now (meaning they would tend to build up a lot more creosote more easily), many people didn't season their wood properly, they didn't watch stack temperatures, etc.

Basically a lot of newbies making very newbie mistakes, and as a result there were a fair number of chimney fires. I knew two families that lost houses due to chimney fires.

The people who lived in the house behind the one I grew up in had a chimney fire that severely damaged the chimney (as in the top couple of rows of bricks basically crumbling off).

My brother and his wife at the time had a chimney fire that resulted in a cracked thimble and clay liner.

Personally, I do not believe it to be "nervous nellyism" to be fastidious in trying to make sure your house doesn't burn to the ground.

But that's just me.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 17, 2022, 10:36:29 AM
Those little piles of sawdust?

Probably some kind of boring beetle.

You're smart to only bring in as much wood as you need to fuel the stove. No sense in introducing a potentially destructive pest into your home.

After all, aren't you enough? :rofl:
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: K Frame on September 17, 2022, 10:56:40 AM
"My sweep has some nifty vacuuming contraption that blows the soot out the top of the pipe."

I have a fitting that allows me to put my leaf blower onto the exterior pipe on my stove and basically suck a huge amount of air through the horizontal pipe that runs from the stove to the exterior vertical stack.

I can't clean that any other way.

I use a brush on the exterior vertical pipe to kick everything loose, and while it's flexible, it's not flexible enough to get into the horizontal.

Had I known more about it when I had the stove installed I would have told my guy to NOT use the RTV high temperature sealant on the one joint outside, but to use the high-temp stove tape to seal it. I could have gotten the pipe apart more easily to do the cleaning.

But, the leaf blower does a good job of sucking the ash out of the pipe so I think I'm OK there.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: JTHunter on September 18, 2022, 11:11:53 PM
Note before the back East guys chime in: Pine is just a wood that's used in the Northwest. We don't have as many hardwoods as you guys do. I mostly use it as kindling and to get the fire going. It's mixed in 25/75 with my Russian olive, which while decent firewood, is just not up to oak standard. The faster and hotter burning pine mixed in really helps get the larger olive logs going good and keeps the wood stove at closer to optimum temperature.

About 4 years ago, we demo'ed an elevated deck at my mother's that was made of cedar.  The 2x6 boards were also painted with a "barn red" paint.  I used my hatchet and a hammer to split those boards into 1.5" x 0.5" pieces and then split some of those in half again (0.75 x 0.5).  They make good kindling as they are old and dry and catch quickly.  I also sometimes use them in the middle of the night when I wake and the fire is down to just coals.  A couple of pieces of that cedar followed by multiple handfuls of hardwood twigs and branches gets the fire up and running again.  Then I add the larger pieces before going back to bed.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: JTHunter on September 18, 2022, 11:18:11 PM
I get about a cup of black sandy grit (kreosote) when I open the damper first time in the fall and that’s it.

What is your pipe's diameter and length?  Mine is ~6" (i.d.) double walled stainless and ~10-12' tall, but I only get about 1/4 cup of black powder.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Kingcreek on September 19, 2022, 08:49:48 AM
It is 10-12” inside diameter and maybe 16’ to the top.
Right now, top part of it is laying in the yard with the new steel roof work. No significant buildup.
Maybe it’s only 1/2 cup when I open the damper first time for the season. I just know to expect it and have a tub under it.
Title: Re: Log Splitters?
Post by: Ben on September 21, 2022, 06:08:50 PM
Well, my sweep just left and it looks like all is in good shape for having been a two year period. They have a "0-4" scale for buildup severity and he marked me a 2+. I thought a lot came out, but he said it was a good amount for the time period and it was all the very fine, dry, powdery stuff, which also was good.

He said if  I would have only gotten a little bit out after two years and how much I used it, it would have meant the stove wasn't functioning correctly. That's not intuitive to me, but it's apparently how these newfangled stoves work.