Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on February 12, 2021, 09:44:21 AM

Title: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 12, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-education-math-white-supremacy

Quote
The Oregon Department of Education (ODE) recently encouraged teachers to register for training that encourages "ethnomathematics" and argues, among other things, that White supremacy manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer.
...
Part of the toolkit includes a list of ways "white supremacy culture" allegedly "infiltrates math classrooms." Those include "the focus is on getting the 'right' answer," students being "required to 'show their work,'" and other alleged manifestations.

"The concept of mathematics being purely objective is unequivocally false, and teaching it is even much less so," the document for the "Equitable Math" toolkit reads. "Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict."


I honestly cannot facepalm hard enough at the blatant stupidity.  Finding the right answer = white supremacy?

Our education system is doomed.


Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 09:54:31 AM
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F2b7f7af58da477ad4e2b7ea044c1807e%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Ben on February 12, 2021, 09:54:46 AM
"Equitable math".
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: cordex on February 12, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
I honestly cannot facepalm hard enough at the blatant stupidity.  Finding the right answer = white supremacy?
I find the concept that only white people are interested in the "right answer" to be pretty blatantly white supremacist.

It reminds me of that video of the woke guy and the racist agreeing on everything.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 10:18:15 AM
I find the concept that only white people are interested in the "right answer" to be pretty blatantly white supremacist.

It reminds me of that video of the woke guy and the racist agreeing on everything.

Yeah they're basically saying white people should be running everything since they're the only ones "focused" on finding the right answer.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: MechAg94 on February 12, 2021, 10:53:22 AM
Sounds like a bunch of education people don't know math and can't teach it and they want excuses for failing. 
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: MechAg94 on February 12, 2021, 10:54:48 AM
Also part of the technocrat oppression.  If the masses are uneducated, it will be easier to keep them under control using technology they don't understand.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Ben on February 12, 2021, 10:57:07 AM
Also part of the technocrat oppression.  If the masses are uneducated, it will be easier to keep them under control using technology they don't understand.

CM Kornbluth wrote a factual article, not a short story.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 10:57:41 AM
Also part of the technocrat oppression.  If the masses are uneducated, it will be easier to keep them under control using technology they don't understand.

On this episode of Stargate SG1...............
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 12, 2021, 11:02:48 AM
Also part of the technocrat oppression.  If the masses are uneducated, it will be easier to keep them under control using technology they don't understand.

If they can convince you everything you know is wrong, they can remold your mind to believe whatever alternative they give you. This has been going on for a while now.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 12, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
Sounds like a bunch of education people don't know math and can't teach it and they want excuses for failing.

^^^ This.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 11:45:06 AM
Whoops, deleted
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: dogmush on February 12, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
This is one of the most racist ideas to come forth from the modern racist ideology.  I am continually amazed people fall for it.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 11:56:16 AM
2+2=4
2+2=4
2+2=4
2+2=4
2+2=4
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 12:03:06 PM
(https://pics.onsizzle.com/Facebook-1ba72c.png)
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: French G. on February 12, 2021, 12:20:44 PM
Aunt Sally is the next to ascend the scaffold right behind Aunt Jemima
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: tokugawa on February 12, 2021, 05:14:58 PM
Unfortunately, some of them will end up designing bridges with SJW math.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: French G. on February 12, 2021, 05:27:51 PM
Unfortunately, some of them will end up designing bridges with SJW math.

As long as they are all standing on it for the ribbon cutting I am okay with that.  [popcorn]
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: 230RN on February 12, 2021, 05:39:22 PM
           2 +3(2) = ?

First time through I got sevyn, then I realized that what was writinged as a 3 was actually a 2, as indicated by the parentheses.

So the anser is 4.

Same as:

       6 +4(5) = 11

Because the 4 reelly meant 5.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 12, 2021, 06:07:16 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-education-math-white-supremacy


I honestly cannot facepalm hard enough at the blatant stupidity.  Finding the right answer = white supremacy?

Our education system is doomed.

Brought to you by the same folks who were promoting "Ebonics" a few years ago.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 12, 2021, 06:19:37 PM
           2 +3(2) = ?

First time through I got sevyn, then I realized that what was writinged as a 3 was actually a 2, as indicated by the parentheses.

So the anser is 4.

Same as:

       6 +4(5) = 11

Because the 4 reelly meant 5.


Obviously you're not a white supremist   :rofl:
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: griz on February 12, 2021, 06:57:49 PM
If there's not a single correct answer, in other words, one guess is as good as another, why teach math at all?  That would save a lot of time (as if there's a way to measure time!!!) and everybody would feel equally  good about themselves, which apparently is the point.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 12, 2021, 07:08:12 PM
If there's not a single correct answer, in other words, one guess is as good as another, why teach math at all?  That would save a lot of time (as if there's a way to measure time!!!) and everybody would feel equally  good about themselves, which apparently is the point.

More time to explain how Donald Trump invented slavery in 1619.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 12, 2021, 07:35:25 PM
If there's not a single correct answer, in other words, one guess is as good as another, why teach math at all?  That would save a lot of time (as if there's a way to measure time!!!) and everybody would feel equally  good about themselves, which apparently is the point.

We should have seen this coming. It's been there, right in front of us, for years. Now that everyone has a calculator, or a cell phone that plays calculator upon request, and stores all have registers that calculate change, clerks (sorry -- "associates") don't have to figure out or count change any more. I'm not the only one here who has commented on the phenomenon. Suppose you're in  a store and your bill rings up as $19.06. You hand the cashier a twenty, a nickle, and a penny. The cashier than stands there for ten minutes, staring at the six cents and wondering why that stupid old man gave me coins when all he needs is change for a twenty.

Then they finally get around to punching $20.06 into the "Amount tendered" box, and the look on their faces when the change rings up to an even one dollar is priceless. It's like "Magic! How did he do that?"
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 12, 2021, 07:43:54 PM
A corrupted education makes government dependants serfs.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Viking on February 13, 2021, 02:28:32 AM
A corrupted education makes government dependants serfs.
It also lowers social mobility. I'm only using the examples I know of, which are in NYC and San Francisco: NYC has a number of elite public high schools, admission is bases on achievement and achievement alone. Of course Bill Diblasio wants to shut them down, because not enough black or hispanics kids are admitted, while Asians are overrepresented. Likewise, there WAS one in SF, which was essentially taken out behind the shed the other day, for the same reasons. So now, a lot of bright kids from working class and lower middle class homes who could have gotten a top tier high school education and then gotten a scholarship to Harvard, MIT, Stanford etc will have a much tougher time, and will not be a potential future threat to the upper middle class and above (who have the financial means to send their children to private schools or getting tutors) by getting above their station. Killing two birds with one stone - dumbing down the population and ensuring that the privileges of the ruling classes are maintained and are not threatened by the plebs.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: 230RN on February 13, 2021, 04:33:15 AM
All as planned.  The Fix is in.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: HankB on February 13, 2021, 01:14:07 PM
Unfortunately, some of them will end up designing bridges with SJW math.
Maybe they already have.

https://www.kcci.com/article/uh-oh-construction-crews-must-redo-dollar23-million-project-after-big-mistake/22121540#

And then there's this:
(https://dgg12aebx0waw.cloudfront.net/67380/b335fe790ae1e64f1686e47ba333d9c3.jpg)

I also remember reading about a mistake that happened at a bridge construction site when a blueprint dimension of 102" was read as 10'2"    :facepalm:
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Jim147 on February 13, 2021, 01:42:31 PM
That's just not right.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Ben on February 13, 2021, 01:44:22 PM
That's just not right.

I think it would be a hoot to drive over though!  =D
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 13, 2021, 02:01:53 PM
Maybe they already have.

https://www.kcci.com/article/uh-oh-construction-crews-must-redo-dollar23-million-project-after-big-mistake/22121540#

And then there's this:
(https://dgg12aebx0waw.cloudfront.net/67380/b335fe790ae1e64f1686e47ba333d9c3.jpg)

I also remember reading about a mistake that happened at a bridge construction site when a blueprint dimension of 102" was read as 10'2"    :facepalm:

Short memories much?  Poisoning STEM with progressive politics is already killing people.

(https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_32/2364301/180315-miami-bridge-collapse-se-448p_84ddf30ecf49d0a72db56965399e637f.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg)
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 13, 2021, 04:29:22 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-education-math-white-supremacy


I honestly cannot facepalm hard enough at the blatant stupidity.  Finding the right answer = white supremacy?

Our education system is doomed.

More to the point, what's with putting "the 'right' answer" in quotes, as if there isn't really such a thing as a right answer in mathematics? It appears that some people are unclear on the concept of how math works. 2+2 can never equal 3 or 5, regardless of whether they put "right" in quotes or not.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 13, 2021, 06:15:03 PM
Short memories much?  Poisoning STEM with progressive politics is already killing people.

(https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_32/2364301/180315-miami-bridge-collapse-se-448p_84ddf30ecf49d0a72db56965399e637f.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg)

Funny you should mention that. The federal investigation just released says exactly that. Not only did the design engineers screw up -- a second firm that was supposed to peer review the design also missed it.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/02/02/feds-release-report-on-investigation-of-fiu-pedestrian-bridge-collapse/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 13, 2021, 06:25:26 PM
Funny you should mention that. The federal investigation just released says exactly that. Not only did the design engineers screw up -- a second firm that was supposed to peer review the design also missed it.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/02/02/feds-release-report-on-investigation-of-fiu-pedestrian-bridge-collapse/

They were so proud of their strong feminist engineer until it had to be memory holed.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 13, 2021, 10:30:04 PM
They were so proud of their strong feminist engineer until it had to be memory holed.

I missed that part.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 14, 2021, 12:26:31 AM
I missed that part.

Maybe you can find it in an archive.  The firm responsible for the bridge made a show on their website about their wonderful diversity, until it killed six people, and then was promptly removed while pretending it never existed.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 12:37:56 AM
Maybe you can find it in an archive.  The firm responsible for the bridge made a show on their website about their wonderful diversity, until it killed six people, and then was promptly removed while pretending it never existed.

Ah.

You [sort of] have the generalities right, but the details wrong. MCM, the company that built the bridge, is (or was) owned by a woman. The bridge was designed by Figg Bridge Engineering, an engineering firm that was a subcontractor to MCM. The engineer who designed the bridge was a male.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Doggy Daddy on February 14, 2021, 12:42:56 AM
The engineer who designed the bridge was a male.
(italics mine)

And what is the engineer now?
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 14, 2021, 12:58:35 AM
Ah.

You [sort of] have the generalities right, but the details wrong. MCM, the company that built the bridge, is (or was) owned by a woman. The bridge was designed by Figg Bridge Engineering, an engineering firm that was a subcontractor to MCM. The engineer who designed the bridge was a male.

Considering I watched it happen live I'm going to need some citations.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 02:42:25 AM
(italics mine)

And what is the engineer now?

Probably unemployed.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 02:51:29 AM
Considering I watched it happen live I'm going to need some citations.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/engineers-failed-recognize-danger-fiu-bridge-inspection-hours/story?id=63657158

Quote
The engineer on [of] record, with the Figg Engineering Group, should have "immediately" instructed that the bridge be shored and that the street below, SW 8th Street, be closed, the report states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/22/design-error-blamed-florida-international-university-pedestrian-bridge-collapse/2449316001/

Quote
A peer review that failed to detect the calculation errors by designer FIGG Bridge Engineers – and an engineer's failure to recognize the importance of cracking before the collapse – contributed to the tragedy, the board said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_University_pedestrian_bridge_collapse

Quote
An examination carried out by the Federal Highway Administration discovered faults in the design of the bridge, which overestimated the strength of the bridge in the region that failed and underestimated the load it would be expected to carry.[5] The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) issued a "News Release"[6] which said, "load and capacity calculation errors made by FIGG Bridge Engineers, Inc., are the probable cause of the fatal ... bridge collapse in Miami ...". The same day the NTSB released a "synopsis"[note 1] of its final report, which stated ...

https://www.constructiondive.com/news/osha-places-blame-for-fiu-bridge-collapse-on-engineer-contractors/556798/

Quote
Figg employee Denney Pate was the engineer of record for the project, and Figg designed the bridge.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 14, 2021, 05:53:46 AM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/engineers-failed-recognize-danger-fiu-bridge-inspection-hours/story?id=63657158

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/22/design-error-blamed-florida-international-university-pedestrian-bridge-collapse/2449316001/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_University_pedestrian_bridge_collapse

https://www.constructiondive.com/news/osha-places-blame-for-fiu-bridge-collapse-on-engineer-contractors/556798/

So who exactly designed the bridge?  Was it the EOR, it is just left vaguely stated as Figg, which could be e group or several people.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 14, 2021, 06:01:38 AM
More to the point, what's with putting "the 'right' answer" in quotes, as if there isn't really such a thing as a right answer in mathematics? It appears that some people are unclear on the concept of how math works. 2+2 can never equal 3 or 5, regardless of whether they put "right" in quotes or not.

Math is a foundation stone of logical thinking and thus critical thought.  From their point of view it must be eliminated from the proles.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: 230RN on February 14, 2021, 10:39:44 AM
It also lowers social mobility. I'm only using the examples I know of, which are in NYC and San Francisco: NYC has a number of elite public high schools, admission is bases on achievement and achievement alone. Of course Bill Diblasio wants to shut them down, because not enough black or hispanics kids are admitted, while Asians are overrepresented. Likewise, there WAS one in SF, which was essentially taken out behind the shed the other day, for the same reasons. So now, a lot of bright kids from working class and lower middle class homes who could have gotten a top tier high school education and then gotten a scholarship to Harvard, MIT, Stanford etc will have a much tougher time, and will not be a potential future threat to the upper middle class and above (who have the financial means to send their children to private schools or getting tutors) by getting above their station. Killing two birds with one stone - dumbing down the population and ensuring that the privileges of the ruling classes are maintained and are not threatened by the plebs.

Yeah, I went to one of those schools, Brooklyn Technical High School.  Graduated in mid nineteen-fifties.  I was OK on making it co-ed (how'd they manage the bathroom situation?) but when I heard about the Mayor wanting to eliminate the entry exam for the sake of diversity, I darned near threw up.  I still remember my "Whoopie!" reaction when my eighth grade teacher read the announcement that I had been accepted to Brooklyn Tech.

(http://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/b2wPtE1UGTu2mh-f-YQZ6Q/o.jpg)

I don't know if the school's antenna is still there.

ETA:  That quote is from Reply # 25.

Terry

REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Technical_High_School

Pic credit in properties

Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: BobR on February 14, 2021, 12:48:27 PM
If they can do it to math how long before they try it with Chemistry? I for one cannot wait for the remodeling of high schools around the country because it was close enough to be (right).  >:D

bob
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 12:55:59 PM
So who exactly designed the bridge?  Was it the EOR, it is just left vaguely stated as Figg, which could be e group or several people.

Figg is the Engineer of Record. Figg is (or was -- don't know if this put them out of business) a professional engineering firm. The lead engineer for the [Figg} team of engineers who designed the bridge was Denney Pate. NO project of that size and scale is ever designed by one person. The bridge probably involved a design team of between six and ten people. As the firm engaged to perform the design, Figg is legally responsible. As the lead engineer on the project Denney Pate bears the ultimate moral responsibility, but his acts are covered under Figg's professional liability insurance so he probably didn't have to pay anything.

After a disaster of that magnituude, though, I would be surprised if Figg didn't fire him. But I don't have any information about that.

Engineer of Record can refer to the firm, or to the one engineer who name and seal appears on the construction drawings. In larger firms, the drawings are usually sealed by one of the partners, but the partners are usually not directly involved in either the design or the drafting. They rely on their staff to do things right. In this case, the staff did not do things right. I don't know if Denney pate was a partner, or an employee. I don't know if he sealed the drawings, or if a partner sealed them.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 14, 2021, 01:05:12 PM
Figg is the Engineer of Record. Figg is (or was -- don't know if this put them out of business) a professional engineering firm. The lead engineer for the [Figg} team of engineers who designed the bridge was Denney Pate. NO project of that size and scale is ever designed by one person. The bridge probably involved a design team of between six and ten people. As the firm engaged to perform the design, Figg is legally responsible. As the lead engineer on the project Denney Pate bears the ultimate moral responsibility, but his acts are covered under Figg's professional liability insurance so he probably didn't have to pay anything.

After a disaster of that magnituude, though, I would be surprised if Figg didn't fire him. But I don't have any information about that.

Engineer of Record can refer to the firm, or to the one engineer who name and seal appears on the construction drawings. In larger firms, the drawings are usually sealed by one of the partners, but the partners are usually not directly involved in either the design or the drafting. They rely on their staff to do things right. In this case, the staff did not do things right. I don't know if Denney pate was a partner, or an employee. I don't know if he sealed the drawings, or if a partner sealed them.

Thank you for that.  Seems like the specific engineer(s) responsible for those particularly calculations, and any engineer tasked to review those calculations should bear some personal responsibility and consequences in addition to the firm.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
If they can do it to math how long before they try it with Chemistry? I for one cannot wait for the remodeling of high schools around the country because it was close enough to be (right).  >:D

bob

Yeah. Jeff Dunham will have to replace Achmed the dead terrorist with Sidney, the dead Chemistry teacher.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Looks like Figg still exists: https://www.figgbridge.com/

It's the damnedest web site I've even seen, though. I tried it in two different browsers, and I don't see anything on there about an address, a phone number, or any way to contact them or even to figure out where their office(s) is/are located.

MCM still exists, too: https://www.mcm-us.com/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: HankB on February 14, 2021, 01:52:42 PM
Thank you for that.  Seems like the specific engineer(s) responsible for those particularly calculations, and any engineer tasked to review those calculations should bear some personal responsibility and consequences in addition to the firm.
Quite a few decades ago - when I was just a tyke - my father worked for an engineering consulting firm. Even though he wasn't an architect, it somehow fell to him to design some sort of industrial building or warehouse. He looked up the information he needed to on things like roof spans and snow loads, and drew up a design which was subsequently turned over to the customer, who hired a separate construction company to build it according to plan.

They didn't.

Sure enough, after a heavy snow, the roof collapsed. Hungry lawyers came to the consulting company, and my Dad was called on the carpet. He and the management team went out to the site and my Dad noticed - the building deviated significantly from the blueprints he'd prepared. Something along the lines of substituting 5" beams for the specified 8" beams AND increasing the spacing. Since my Dad's company had nothing to do with inspecting or managing the actual construction, the lawyers shook their heads, went away, and the customer went after the construction company instead. Dad ultimately came out "smelling like a rose" - he didn't even have to testify since the deviations from his blueprints were so egregious..

Dad shortly thereafter quit that engineering consulting company - he didn't much like their readiness to throw him under the bus, and he figured if it happened once, it could happen again.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 01:58:48 PM
I did a search on Denney Pate. According to one article I found, he has been with Figg for 31 years -- his entire working career. And the article says that it was his seal on the drawings, so he is the engineer of record. The article doesn't say, but after 31 years he may well be a partner.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/denney-denny-pate-figg-florida-fiu-bridge-collapse/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 14, 2021, 01:59:55 PM
One of the more famous examples
A single small design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 14, 2021, 02:15:06 PM
One of the more famous examples
A single design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU

That one is a classic, and it resulted in major changes to the way architects and engineers review and [don't] "approve" shop drawings. Before the Hyatt Regency collapse, our shop drawing stamps had options for "Approved," "Approved as Noted," "Revise and Resubmit," and either ""Not Approved" or "Rejected."

After Hyatt Regency, the liability insurers demanded that the language be changed so that architects and engineers not "approve" shop drawings. The new language is along the lines of "Reviewed - No Exceptions Taken," "Reviewed - Construction May Proceed as Noted," "Revise and Resubmit," and "Not Accepted." There is now also a block of verbiage (which doesn't mean anything as a result of the Hyatt Regency decision, but the insurers demand it anyway) that says something like "Our review is limited to general conformance with the design concept ..." and a bunch of other weasel words intended to create some distance between the architect/engineer and whoever it is that generates the shop drawings.

It may seem like a minor change but, in the legal arena where the word "Approve" carries great significance, this was a sea change in professional liability.

I could write a book on why and how what seemed like a minor departure from the original design became such a major issue, but it has already been written up in detail in a number of publications. This was another case where who was the engineer of record became a crucial point. In the Hyatt Regency case, the engineers who designed it had a design for the hanger rods that supported the catwalks. The steel company that was hired to fabricate the hanger rods changed the design to make it easier to fabricate the rods. The design engineers "approved" the shop drawings, without noticing the significance of the change.

In court, the engineer of record argued that the fabricator had changed their design, so they shouldn't be liable. The court disagreed. The court ruled that, as the engineer of record, it was their responsibility to ensure that the completed project was safe. By reviewing and "approving" the shop drawings, they took ownership of the change. This was the major wake-up call for architects and engineers -- if you are the architect/engineer of record, YOU OWN IT. Up to then, reviews of shop drawings were often limited to a quick scan. If it more or less looked like what the firm had designed, it was "approved." All of a sudden, architects and engineers found that they had to actually look at the shop drawings, and understand them.

That incident changed the way architects and engineers ran their practices permanently.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Jim147 on February 14, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
One of the more famous examples
A single small design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU

I was living in the KC area at the time and remember when it hit the news. My dads friend was a first responder and headed straight from our house to there.

He took his own life a few years later. Not sure if there was any connection.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 14, 2021, 06:22:18 PM
More to the point, what's with putting "the 'right' answer" in quotes, as if there isn't really such a thing as a right answer in mathematics? It appears that some people are unclear on the concept of how math works. 2+2 can never equal 3 or 5, regardless of whether they put "right" in quotes or not.


Math has many shades of grey, unless it's proving climate change.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 14, 2021, 10:27:36 PM

Math has many shades of grey, unless it's proving climate change.

Or tallying up covid deaths.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on February 14, 2021, 10:44:10 PM
Or counting votes
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 15, 2021, 12:13:43 AM
The three great lies:

1. Of course I'll respect you in the morning
2. The science is settled
3. The vote wasn't rigged
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 15, 2021, 12:34:42 AM
I don't think these guys would agree that in math there are no wrong answers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMKXbLBgkEc

Fast forward to 09:40 for the math part
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: 230RN on February 15, 2021, 03:59:04 AM
Haqkmoon commented,

Quote
It's the damnedest web site I've even seen, though. I tried it in two different browsers, and I don't see anything on there about an address, a phone number, or any way to contact them or even to figure out where their office(s) is/are located.

I've been noticing that trend more and more lately.  I guess part of it is it's more cost-effective to deal with inquiries on the website than phone or mail or knocking on their door.  As opposed to being sneaky or skullduggerous.

I started to notice this when I tried to get filters for a 110 Volt hand vacuum cleaner (like a Dustbuster) and there was no information in the packing or the instructions as to where they were from.  The retailer didn't know (or care to find out) either.

I let it go, but that triggered me into checking stuff like that from time to time.

I guess the last resort is to inquire as to their "Agent For Service" through (usually) the Secretary of State for your State.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Ben on February 15, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Good point:

Quote
Zaid Jilani
@ZaidJilani
·
18h
Ironically, Chinese and Indian kids are not going to be taught like this. Only Anglo-American countries like US, UK, Canada are fertile ground for this ideology.

I also saw a black educator on the news yesterday simply ripping these people to shreds regarding the harm rich white liberals are doing to black students. I wish there was a video clip of it.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: griz on February 15, 2021, 04:06:54 PM
Good point:

I also saw a black educator on the news yesterday simply ripping these people to shreds regarding the harm rich white liberals are doing to black students. I wish there was a video clip of it.

I wish more people would realize that.  Doesn't matter the race, if you tell a student the deck is stacked against them and they are as smart as anybody else, and then you give them the same grade as the student who knew the right answers, you aren't doing them any favor.  They need an education, not a diploma.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 16, 2021, 12:00:52 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/02/15/here-are-more-ways-that-white-supremacy-culture-shows-up-in-math-classrooms/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 16, 2021, 01:00:37 PM
"White supremacy culture" - good grief. First it was rape culture, and now this.

Wait. Are all my white guy friends out there raping black chicks, and didn't invite me?  ;/

(I know, that sounds weird, coming from a guy with a black avatar.)
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 11:18:33 AM
Weep for this country

Student in Baltimore high school ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/03/04/student-in-baltimore-high-school-ranks-near-the-top-half-of-his-class-with-a-0-13-grade-point-average/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Ben on March 05, 2021, 11:24:21 AM
Weep for this country

Student in Baltimore high school ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/03/04/student-in-baltimore-high-school-ranks-near-the-top-half-of-his-class-with-a-0-13-grade-point-average/

They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Quote
As we dig deeper into [Tiffany France’s] son’s records, we can see in his first three years at Augusta Fells, he failed 22 classes and was late or absent 272 days. But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.

Somehow the parent is shocked to find out he skipped 272 days of school over three years? Report cards weren't sent home? The parent never demanded to see his grades?
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 11:35:27 AM
They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Somehow the parent is shocked to find out he skipped 272 days of school over three years? Report cards weren't sent home? The parent never demanded to see his grades?

It's every which way you turn in this
The Parent(s) didn't care
The school didn't care
The school admin didn't care
At the root I blame modern inner city society (I'm sure many a dem/lefty would scream racism at that). Kind of hard to make someone care about getting an education when they're brought up a culture where willful ignorance is not only allowed but actively encouraged in many cases. I'm sure the parent(s) are victims of this as well and the cycle continues. The solution as always will be to scream racism and throw more money at it rather than trying to undo the culture of ignorance which would be racist of course.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 05, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Quote
Even though the student failed Algebra I, Spanish I, and English II, he was promoted to Algebra II, Spanish II, and English III. Now that he’s made it through the system for four years, they’re sending him back to ninth grade to start over, as if that’s going to help.

So ... yeah, the school bears a sizable chunk of the blame.  Waiting until he's about to graduate before sending him back down to 9th grade?  How about addressing the problem when he started failing his classes?

Not that the mother is blameless, but if she's working three jobs as claimed in the article, she won't have much time for anything else.  As others have asked: where is the father? 
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: MechAg94 on March 05, 2021, 12:11:56 PM
And there are a bunch of other kids that are in worse shape than this one.  He is near the midpoint.  How many kids at that school are actually there on any given day?  The school district is using him as a funding tool by claiming him in their head count and no one at any level cares. 

Quote
Reminded of the college prof from a few yrs ago: "The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating."

And also, yeah. it would be nice if he had an education, but he could have been working and/or learning a trade for the last 3 years.  Maybe his Mom wouldn't need to work 3 jobs.

I am sure the Govt answer will be to increase truancy enforcement so they can fine the parent. 
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 05, 2021, 02:34:58 PM
Unfortunately, some of them will end up designing bridges with SJW math.

http://www.cpdm.com/architecture/misalignedbridgehires.jpg

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3xlpxeimliSPM1_5xjBpCgHaF3%26pid%3DApi&f=1

If they succeed in completely trashing math (and STEM in general) in U.S. schools, they'll have a stronger argument for unlimited importation of cheap foreign workers who know how to add 2+2 and get 4 as an answer.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 05, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3xlpxeimliSPM1_5xjBpCgHaF3%26pid%3DApi&f=1

"Each crew was told to lay the right-hand rail on the county line."   Or something.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 05, 2021, 06:15:51 PM
I guess the Left realized the easiest way to put Americans into re-education camps was to turn the whole country into one.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: MechAg94 on March 05, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
http://www.cpdm.com/architecture/misalignedbridgehires.jpg

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3xlpxeimliSPM1_5xjBpCgHaF3%26pid%3DApi&f=1

If they succeed in completely trashing math (and STEM in general) in U.S. schools, they'll have a stronger argument for unlimited importation of cheap foreign workers who know how to add 2+2 and get 4 as an answer.
Is that one bridge a fake?  Why would they finish the road surface when the bridge was misaligned?
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 05, 2021, 11:59:24 PM
Is that one bridge a fake?  Why would they finish the road surface when the bridge was misaligned?

It may be. There was another (I think more widely known) image of a misaligned bridge, but apparently our friends at Snopes don't seem to think it's real ... so I didn't use it.

In the real world -- my last long-term assignment in the construction world was a VERY large railroad repair facility. I can't begin to count how many sets of eyes reviewed the original design and construction plans, and then how many sets of eyes reviewed the "shop drawings" for each component that went into the building. The main shop had three rail lines running through it, each long enough to hold an entire 6-car commuter train indoors and under roof. At various points along each line there are turntables, so the trucks (the undercarriages that hold the wheels) can be removed from a car, rotated 90 degrees, and rolled off to the side where they can be hoisted up by a gigantic overhead crane.

Don't remember if the total is nine or twelve of these turntables. After all the reviews and approvals ... when they were installed the rails didn't line up with the tracks. I am very happy that I wasn't one of the sets of eyes that reviewed those shop drawings.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on July 15, 2021, 08:47:10 AM
And the solution will be!
Blame white people.
Throw more money at the teachers unions

More than 40 percent of Baltimore high school students earned a grade point average below 1.0
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/07/14/more-than-40-percent-of-baltimore-high-school-students-earned-a-grade-point-average-below-1-0/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: Pb on July 15, 2021, 11:07:11 AM
The left certainly has low expectations black people, don't they?   ;/
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: zxcvbob on July 15, 2021, 11:19:15 AM
Is that one bridge a fake?  Why would they finish the road surface when the bridge was misaligned?

I think it's a fake.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacunayagua
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on July 15, 2021, 12:16:20 PM
The left certainly has low expectations black people, don't they?   ;/

Anything else they attack as racist.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: just Warren on July 15, 2021, 12:18:52 PM
If DeAntwon committed 100 crimes last month but only committed 95 crimes this month what does that mean?

DeAntwon is turning his life around.
Title: Re: "ethnomathematics"
Post by: WLJ on July 15, 2021, 12:19:56 PM
If DeAntwon committed 100 crimes last month but only committed 95 crimes this month what does that mean?

DeAntwon is turning his life around.

I would laugh but it's too true to be funny.