Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on February 13, 2021, 08:50:10 AM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/12/realestate/tiny-house-pandemic.html
Where are you going to put the extra toilet paper and food?
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Links are fun until the paywall hits.
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Hitting that link started an Onion session for me in Brave. I was able to read the article though.
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Links are fun until the paywall hits.
If you use Brave by itself, or Chrome with the Forget Me extension and clear your cookies, you can generally laugh at most paywalls. At least those that allow a limited number of free articles.
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No paywall popped up for me. Using Brave
While they're gushing about how nice it is and it's how it's what they want but at the same time you're suppose to feel sorry for them because there's not enough room for multiple cases of TP. The woman with the bus thinks she could park that thing in a state park and that would be her forever home rent free, and I guess with free water and electric hookups*, but mean old Texas Gov Abbott kicked her out.
*Never having dealt with park hookups is it free or is there a fee?
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I predicted months ago the tiny house movement would die from covid. Where is my prize?
[record scratch]
Tiny Home builders and sellers agreed that sales have been above average during the pandemic. The report estimates that this market could increase by $5.8 billion between 2020 and 2024.
Fifty six percent of Americans said they would live in a tiny home, according to a survey conducted in late 2020 by IPX 1031.
What?
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Meanwhile 90+% of the world is looking at this and saying "Look at all that space! And those luxuries!"
They used to refer to these kind of homes as cozy.
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A two bedroom modular home is like half the price of a tiny home, from what I see. Sure you can't move it, but you can use the savings to buy yourself some land to put it on.
Or if it's about being mobile, there are simply way better options.
I was quite interested in the concept when these were first introduced, but besides the exorbitant prices, it's like the entire movement is about "how can we make the smallest, most uncomfortable space in which we can sit sipping our herbal tea and feel superior?"
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Or if it's about being mobile, there are simply way better options.
Ben, what would those be? I have seen some YouTube of tiny homes being built by professional builders, and they seem to be better made than the typical RV/trailer.
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My wife was diagnosed with cancer in Nov. 2019. We have spent most of the Covid dealing with her cancer. In December 2020 she was declared free of cancer, for now. Her type has a 20% recurrence rate. In that time she has become obsessed with the nomad life and do it yourself live-in conveyances. She bought an old ambulance last fall and has partially converted it with my help and a friend who fixed multiple wiring issues. She is determined to take off and travel and see the country she never cared to see when I retired back in 2009. We gave up 20 acres and a single wide in Az to move to Ky and help out with the granddaughters. (Help out means housing and raising them for nearly 6 years, which was not the plan.) Now we have 4 1/2 acres, 2 horses, 3 dogs, and a cat and a 100 year old farmhouse to boot. I don't seem to be able to get her to understand that at 71 I don't care to sell everything and hit the road for a fairy tale life living in campgrounds, Walmart parking lots and dirt roads that go nowhere. I get that cancer scared the bejebus out of her and she now wants to live, rather than exist like she was doing, but really?
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*Never having dealt with park hookups is it free or is there a fee?
No, you pay per night, usually a maximum of 14 days before you have to vacate the campground.
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Ben, what would those be? I have seen some YouTube of tiny homes being built by professional builders, and they seem to be better made than the typical RV/trailer.
I suppose opinions vary, and certainly I have seen the youtube videos of the tiny homes built to luxury standards at least for their size. I have looked at many of these options becaus I still have hopes of bringing my dad up here and letting have his own domicile next to the house so he can go back and forth and "have his own place". I eliminated tiny homes early on because you simply get way more bang for the buck with something like a 5th wheel* or trailer, which is in fact what many of the neighbors here use to house their parents or kids who have returned to the nest.
*I think BobR might debate you on tiny homes being better than a 5th wheel. He and his wife gave me the tour of theirs when he passed through my AO. You wanna talk about luxurious and well-made, I will take their 5th wheel over a tiny house every day of the week. That thing was awesome.
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Grandpa Shooter,
Doesn't she know that she actually really lived?
The rootless cosmopolitans and rootless wanderers aren't the ones really living.
Two long road trips a year ought to placate her wanderlust.
It's good to have a home and family.
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No, you pay per night, usually a maximum of 14 days be you have to vacate the campground.
Okay, I may have misread (I blame lack of coffee) the part on the Bus Lady, she was moving around from park to park.
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I suppose opinions vary, and certainly I have seen the youtube videos of the tiny homes built to luxury standards at least for their size. I have looked at many of these options becaus I still have hopes of bringing my dad up here and letting have his own domicile next to the house so he can go back and forth and "have his own place". I eliminated tiny homes early on because you simply get way more bang for the buck with something like a 5th wheel* or trailer, which is in fact what many of the neighbors here use to house their parents or kids who have returned to the nest.
*I think BobR might debate you on tiny homes being better than a 5th wheel. He and his wife gave me the tour of theirs when he passed through my AO. You wanna talk about luxurious and well-made, I will take their 5th wheel over a tiny house every day of the week. That thing was awesome.
I bet this is one of those situations in which you get what you pay for. I have a friend who used to be an auto adjuster regional manager for Safeco. His specialty when he was younger was trailer and RVs. He had a low opinion of the typical inexpensive Winnebago type of RV or trailer. He said the materials were cheap, the wood framing was stapled together, fit and finish was a problem and even a low speed impact would typically total the vehicle. He felt that most of those vehicles were designed to be parked a lot and driven relatively infrequently. I have also seen on the Travel Channel these $ 500,000 plus RV coaches built on a bus chassis, and those things look to be very well put together with steel framing and the like.
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Where does one put their lathe, milling machine, welder, drill press, work bench, table saw, band saw, tool boxes, smelting supplies, gun safe, reloading stuff, ammo, and computer with all its accessories - - - and still have room for a bed, stove,microwave, and fridge --- in one of those tiny homes? (I think I'll need two. Jumbo size.)
Woody
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Grandpa Shooter,
Doesn't she know that she actually really lived?
The rootless cosmopolitans and rootless wanderers aren't the ones really living.
Two long road trips a year ought to placate her wanderlust.
It's good to have a home and family.
Her life for many years now has been alternating between the bed and her recliner. She detests actual physical activity and either lays in bed sleeping, or with her tablet, and then gets up to sit in her recliner the rest of the day. She watches youtube videos all day portraying the idyllic life on the road, with the wonderful technology making life worth living. You and I know it's a fantasy world they live in, but to her it is the answer to all that's wrong with life. I guess for her it's a pre golden years crisis. The only answer I can come up with is to give her a budget off the monthly net income and let her go traveling. Someone has to feed the animals and keep up the homestead.
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Buy her the book/let her see the movie: Nomadland. The movie just came out.
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Where does one put their lathe, milling machine, welder, drill press, work bench, table saw, band saw, tool boxes, smelting supplies, gun safe, reloading stuff, ammo, and computer with all its accessories - - - and still have room for a bed, stove,microwave, and fridge --- in one of those tiny homes? (I think I'll need two. Jumbo size.)
Woody
Right?
A tiny home would be okay if I also had an 80x120 pole barn workshop as well. Then I'd just build an apartment in the workshop, and live there. So I guess I wouldn't need a tiny home. :laugh:
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Right?
A tiny home would be okay if I also had an 80x120 pole barn workshop as well. Then I'd just build an apartment in the workshop, and live there. So I guess I wouldn't need a tiny home. :laugh:
I've always said the way to go is a medium sized home and a ginormous shop with some "breathing room" sized land. Before I found my place, I was actually looking into Morton Buildings to do a shop/home combo. Some of the examples of those (like a ginormous aircraft hanger and home together) are pretty awesome looking.
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Buy her the book/let her see the movie: Nomadland. The movie just came out.
She adores the videos of all the women living large in their tiny conveyances free of all encumbrances like a spouse, bills, responsibility, etc. I am afraid the cancer treatments impacted her mind as well as her body.
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From the article:
Jenny Jacques is sticking with her tiny home, which is based in Orland, Maine — despite her pandemic woes. It’s a former one-car garage on two acres of land she acquired. Ms. Jacques converted the garage into a 660-square foot tiny home which she now shares with her three children, a dog and three cats.
Orland, Maine, isn't far from where my grandparents lived when I was a kid, and we spent my father's summer vacation with the grandparents every year. (Best times of my life, but that's another story.) That "tiny" house looks like typical mid-coast Maine. But seriously -- a one-car garage at 660 square feet? A one car garage is typically 10x20, or maybe 12x20. I have a two-car garage that's 20x20 -- 400 square feet (and that's the outer dimension, not the dimensions inside the stud walls). That article is typical of the NY Times -- written by some city dweller who has no idea how things are in the real world. Not only did that "tiny" house not start out as a one-car garage (it was probably a barn or -- more likely for Orland -- a shop), at 660 square feet it's also not really a "tiny" house. It's a small house. There are lots of conventional Cape Cod houses that aren't any bigger than 660 square feet, and they aren't claimed to be tiny houses.
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She adores the videos of all the women living large in their tiny conveyances free of all encumbrances like a spouse, bills, responsibility, etc. I am afraid the cancer treatments impacted her mind as well as her body.
Build or acquire her a she shed.
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No, you pay per night, usually a maximum of 14 days before you have to vacate the campground.
And the cost of even a cheap campground per night is usually quite high if it’s the type that has power and water. Remote, rustic Army COE or Forest Service sites can be a lot cheaper but very limited facilities.
If you want a “tiny house” buy one of the well made RVs, not one of the “cramming 10 pounds of *expletive deleted*it into a cheap 1 pound sack” cheap RVs. It’s a lot of work to RV too...getting onsite, set up, get to the stores and get your supplies, effect maintenance. Most of the campgrounds I worked at you couldn’t walk in and expect a site for a week or two either without a reservation made well ahead of time. We had a few RV life people come through that I got to talk to. And another factor is access to doctors and getting prescriptions.
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Build or acquire her a she shed.
She has one I bought, but that has never gotten finished. That's her M/O. Dream, want, acquire, never follow through. I am expected to make her dreams come true.
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She adores the videos of all the women living large in their tiny conveyances free of all encumbrances like a spouse, bills, responsibility, etc. I am afraid the cancer treatments impacted her mind as well as her body.
The constant consuming of that media amounts to brainwashing.
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She has one I bought, but that has never gotten finished. That's her M/O. Dream, want, acquire, never follow through. I am expected to make her dreams come true
I'm really good at telling my wife no, or you can pay for it if you really want it that bad.
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Charby said, "I'm really good at telling my wife no, or you can pay for it if you really want it that bad."
I am the sole support of my household and that's from my retirement and Social Security. I try to motivate her to do something, anything, but I am afraid it's a losing battle.
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Right?
A tiny home would be okay if I also had an 80x120 pole barn workshop as well. Then I'd just build an apartment in the workshop, and live there. So I guess I wouldn't need a tiny home. :laugh:
Yup. Me too.
Woody
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Charby said, "I'm really good at telling my wife no, or you can pay for it if you really want it that bad."
I am the sole support of my household and that's from my retirement and Social Security. I try to motivate her to do something, anything, but I am afraid it's a losing battle.
I'm sorry. (what about her social security?) Can you rent an RV and go on a road trip? Three or 4 weeks of living like that ought to get it out of her system, and you can see some mighty pretty national parks (like Zion and Yellowstone) along the way.
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I kicked around the idea of a semi trailer with a fix it shop-mill, welder, lathe etc inside. And some sort of housing unit.
Problem I see is every place you could pull in and set up., there would be a local guy losing work.
My wife and I are tool junkies. Different sorts of tools,she is oriented to soft goods, spinning, weaving, sewing, knitting, I am the wood and metal guy. We just love to make stuff.
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I kicked around the idea of a semi trailer with a fix it shop-mill, welder, lathe etc inside. And some sort of housing unit.
Problem I see is every place you could pull in and set up., there would be a local guy losing work.
My wife and I are tool junkies. Different sorts of tools,she is oriented to soft goods, spinning, weaving, sewing, knitting, I am the wood and metal guy. We just love to make stuff.
Mom and Dad made most of my stuff until age eight when it started to taper off. Dad with the carpentry and Mom with the sewing. Good memories and a good example.
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My wife was diagnosed with cancer in Nov. 2019. We have spent most of the Covid dealing with her cancer. In December 2020 she was declared free of cancer, for now. Her type has a 20% recurrence rate. In that time she has become obsessed with the nomad life and do it yourself live-in conveyances. She bought an old ambulance last fall and has partially converted it with my help and a friend who fixed multiple wiring issues. She is determined to take off and travel and see the country she never cared to see when I retired back in 2009. We gave up 20 acres and a single wide in Az to move to Ky and help out with the granddaughters. (Help out means housing and raising them for nearly 6 years, which was not the plan.) Now we have 4 1/2 acres, 2 horses, 3 dogs, and a cat and a 100 year old farmhouse to boot. I don't seem to be able to get her to understand that at 71 I don't care to sell everything and hit the road for a fairy tale life living in campgrounds, Walmart parking lots and dirt roads that go nowhere. I get that cancer scared the bejebus out of her and she now wants to live, rather than exist like she was doing, but really?
The first thing I asked about as I was being seduced into the "freedom of the road" was how do I handle mail? Are you gonna carry cash around for everything? If so where do you get the cash? Where's the nearest mailbox?
I had a rather comfortable cab-over camper (fridge, stove, sink, etc) for a number of years and it was great for a weeklong jaunt, but by then it started to feel like a prison on wheels, despite the "freedom of the road" "Easy rider" feeling. (The same feeling as when I was a teenager and first got my driver's license. That feeling seems to override and block out thinking about day-to-day practical problems.)
Disabuse her of the notion that it's going to be fun, fun, fun forever. And here's a "toughie." What if there's a recurrence while you're out in Lame Hawk MT?
(And I am aware that a lot of things can be done today with smart phones than back in 1989.)
Terry
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28 Mar 1989: "Where's the nearest mailbox?"
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The first thing I asked about as I was being seduced into the "freedom of the road" was how do I handle mail? Are you gonna carry cash around for everything? If so where do you get the cash? Where's the nearest mailbox?
I had a rather comfortable cab-over camper (fridge, stove, sink, etc) for a number of years and it was great for a weeklong jaunt, but by then it started to feel like a prison on wheels, despite the "freedom of the road" "Easy rider" feeling. (The same feeling as when I was a teenager and first got my driver's license. That feeling seems to override and block out thinking about day-to-day practical problems.)
Disabuse her of the notion that it's going to be fun, fun, fun forever. And here's a "toughie." What if there's a recurrence while you're out in Lame Hawk MT?
(And I am aware that a lot of things can be done today with smart phones than back in 1989.)
Terry
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28 Mar 1989: "Where's the nearest mailbox?"
Eh ... When I see something like that Camper on the Grasslands, I think Lightning Rod!
Woody
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Eh ... When I see something like that Camper on the Grasslands, I think Lightning Rod!
Woody
You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother. Only got scared / concerned once, but the storm passed over. I will say "there are no atheists in campers with flagpoles on the Grasslands." There was a grounding strap hanging off the rear bumper, but I didn't think it would carry ten thousand amps. A thousand, eh, maybe, but...
Actually, the Grasslands are the Grasslands since farming was really difficult in days of yore because of lack of rainfall. There are wind-pumped wells scattered around up there, and cows can browse, but I think the "animal grazing unit" is something ridiculous, like twenty-five acres or some such.
Terry
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You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother. Only got scared / concerned once, but the storm passed by. I will say "there are no atheists in campers with flagpoles on the Grasslands." There was a grounding strap hanging off the rear bumper, but I didn't think it would carry ten thousand amps. A thousand, eh, maybe, but...
Actually, the Grasslands are the Grasslands since farming was really difficult in days of yore because of lack of rainfall. There are wind-pumped wells scattered around up there, and cows can browse, but I think the "animal grazing unit" up there is something ridiculous, like twenty-five acres or some such.
Terry
Hmm. It could probably do it, once. :cool:
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Hmm. It could probably do it, once. :cool:
If nothing else, the ball of rapidly expanding super-heated plasma that use to be the grounding strap would serve as an effective conduction path for the duration of the event. ;)
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If nothing else, the ball of rapidly expanding super-heated plasma that use to be the grounding strap would serve as an effective conduction path for the duration of the event. ;)
Exactly! :laugh:
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She has one I bought, but that has never gotten finished. That's her M/O. Dream, want, acquire, never follow through. I am expected to make her dreams come true.
De ja vue.
I get the same action from my wife.
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De ja vue.
I get the same action from my wife.
Don't get me wrong. I love her dearly but she does drive me crazy at times. We are the polar opposites for personality, prudence, punctuality, persistence, p,p,p, you get the picture. It takes two to tango, or tangle.
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De ja vue.
I get the same action from my wife.
I blame marketing and advertising. We're bombarded every day with advertisements that build a narrative of some idealistic event or experience and couple it to something that we need to spend money on to obtain that lifestyle/experience/dream. With that in our heads, we purchase the product or service, feeling elated because we feel like we bought the emotion - the things that the advertisement made us feel.
It's all baloney though, the advertisement is presenting a fantasy that doesn't really exist. Buying the products or service in question won't make that fantasy materialize and won't (by itself) cause the us to experience the emotions being prayed upon in the advert. The cold reality sets in, we find ourselves unfulfilled until the next advertisement stirs an emotional response.
Even if you know this is happening, these psychological manipulations still have an effect. That in mind, Nick says: Accept that advertisements are psychological manipulations without your best interests in mind. They are solely designed to extract money from you, and therefore it is in your best interest to avoid them whenever possible. The industry has spent a terrific amount of time and money working out how to manipulate you. Why would you subject yourself to that?
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Don't get me wrong. I love her dearly but she does drive me crazy at times. We are the polar opposites for personality, prudence, punctuality, persistence, p,p,p, you get the picture. It takes two to tango, or tangle.
Sounds like we're playing the same part in the same play.
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You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother. Only got scared / concerned once, but the storm passed over. I will say "there are no atheists in campers with flagpoles on the Grasslands." There was a grounding strap hanging off the rear bumper, but I didn't think it would carry ten thousand amps. A thousand, eh, maybe, but...
Actually, the Grasslands are the Grasslands since farming was really difficult in days of yore because of lack of rainfall. There are wind-pumped wells scattered around up there, and cows can browse, but I think the "animal grazing unit" is something ridiculous, like twenty-five acres or some such.
Terry
On the bright side it would have recharged your flux capacitor.
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Charby said, "I'm really good at telling my wife no, or you can pay for it if you really want it that bad."
I am the sole support of my household and that's from my retirement and Social Security. I try to motivate her to do something, anything, but I am afraid it's a losing battle.
Could try the whole, let's finish the she shed, then the RV-bulance and then talk about this nomadic life style.
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I blame marketing and advertising. We're bombarded every day with advertisements that build a narrative of some idealistic event or experience and couple it to something that we need to spend money on to obtain that lifestyle/experience/dream. With that in our heads, we purchase the product or service, feeling elated because we feel like we bought the emotion - the things that the advertisement made us feel.
It's all baloney though, the advertisement is presenting a fantasy that doesn't really exist. Buying the products or service in question won't make that fantasy materialize and won't (by itself) cause the us to experience the emotions being prayed upon in the advert. The cold reality sets in, we find ourselves unfulfilled until the next advertisement stirs an emotional response.
Even if you know this is happening, these psychological manipulations still have an effect. That in mind, Nick says: Accept that advertisements are psychological manipulations without your best interests in mind. They are solely designed to extract money from you, and therefore it is in your best interest to avoid them whenever possible. The industry has spent a terrific amount of time and money working out how to manipulate you. Why would you subject yourself to that?
This ought to be engraved on a stainless steel card and issued at birth.
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^^^And on the flip side, we can engrave 'It if flies, floats or fu*ks, it is cheaper to rent'.
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"Buy things that increase in value, rent things that decrease in value."
One of those aphorisms that are not 100% true, but useful to keep in mind.
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I blame marketing and advertising. We're bombarded every day with advertisements that build a narrative of some idealistic event or experience and couple it to something that we need to spend money on to obtain that lifestyle/experience/dream. With that in our heads, we purchase the product or service, feeling elated because we feel like we bought the emotion - the things that the advertisement made us feel.
It's all baloney though, the advertisement is presenting a fantasy that doesn't really exist. Buying the products or service in question won't make that fantasy materialize and won't (by itself) cause the us to experience the emotions being prayed upon in the advert. The cold reality sets in, we find ourselves unfulfilled until the next advertisement stirs an emotional response.
Even if you know this is happening, these psychological manipulations still have an effect. That in mind, Nick says: Accept that advertisements are psychological manipulations without your best interests in mind. They are solely designed to extract money from you, and therefore it is in your best interest to avoid them whenever possible. The industry has spent a terrific amount of time and money working out how to manipulate you. Why would you subject yourself to that?
I agree with this entirely. However, I don't think the fault is with advertising. I think this is a description of how our minds work in general, and advertising just takes advantage of it. This "cycle of dissatisfaction" as it were, is human nature and as such has been present in every homo sapien that has ever existed. Siddharth Gautama described it 2500 years ago, and the Hindus even before that. According to Buddhism, full enlightenment is the only way to step off that wheel of desire/dissatisfaction. Personally, I think contentment is its own reward.
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I agree with this entirely. However, I don't think the fault is with advertising. I think this is a description of how our minds work in general, and advertising just takes advantage of it. This "cycle of dissatisfaction" as it were, is human nature and as such has been present in every homo sapien that has ever existed. Siddharth Gautama described it 2500 years ago, and the Hindus even before that. According to Buddhism, full enlightenment is the only way to step off that wheel of desire/dissatisfaction. Personally, I think contentment is its own reward.
Consumption of modern media ramps the process up to 11.
"Thou Shalt Not Covet" is contrary to everything modern America stands for kneels before today.
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"Buy things that increase in value, rent things that decrease in value."
One of those aphorisms that are not 100% true, but useful to keep in mind.
I like that. It's a good rule to stay solvent. Basically, the only thing I buy that decreases in value - is food. I eat it, then when I'm done with it, it is worthless. It even cost money to dispose of it! :old:
Woody
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"Buy things that increase in value, rent things that decrease in value."
One of those aphorisms that are not 100% true, but useful to keep in mind.
Doesn't work with vehicles. Best option for that is to buy a couple year old vehicle after the biggest depreciation and drive it until it's worn out.
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I like that. It's a good rule to stay solvent. Basically, the only thing I buy that decreases in value - is food. I eat it, then when I'm done with it, it is worthless. It even cost money to dispose of it! :old:
Woody
Yer selling it it the wrong fertilizer company...
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Yer selling it it the wrong fertilizer company...
Erp ... Ulp ... Gag ...
Nearly lost my breakfast over the thought of that sort of thing spread over the wheat fields that my bread comes from ... That's a form of recycling --- Erp ... Ulp ... Gag --- I can't abide ... Erp ... Ulp ... Gag ...
I need a quick change in my train of thought! ... Erp ... Ulp ... Gag ...
Eh ... How's the weather in your neck of the woods? QUICK! Tell me!
Woody
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Ya know, China uses that particular method of fertilization. Eat anything from Chi-na</Trump voice> lately?
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Ya know, China uses that particular method of fertilization. Eat anything from Chi-na</Trump voice> lately?
so does America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite