Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on February 13, 2021, 09:04:57 AM

Title: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 13, 2021, 09:04:57 AM
Now that Biden is finished with the anti-Trump EOs, he (or his puppet masters) is ready to move on gun control.

Quote
“During the campaign, President Biden laid out an ambitious plan to make our community safer. And that’s why in part, yesterday, senior members of his team … hosted a virtual discussion with leaders of gun violence prevention groups to discuss our shared goals,” said Psaki.

“We look forward to working with gun violence survivors and advocates and sharing more in the weeks and months ahead about our efforts to make our communities safer,” she added.

The main part of Biden’s gun control agenda includes banning the manufacture and sale of “assault weapons” and high-capacity magazines, regulating possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act, buying back these weapons and high-capacity magazines from citizens, requiring background checks for all gun sales, ending the online sale of firearms and ammunition, and providing more funds to enforce these laws.

The gun control groups who were in attendance at Wednesday’s meeting shared their optimism about getting gun control laws in place that had previously been blocked by the GOP majority in the Senate.

“This meeting provided more evidence that the Biden Administration is committed to being the strongest we’ve ever seen on gun safety,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, said in a joint press release.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-house-reassures-gun-control-groups-it-will-fulfill-ambitious-gun-control-agenda_3695005.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 13, 2021, 12:52:50 PM
I've noticed that the phrase "gun safety" has been adopted by all of the Dems.  Makes it sound better, but it's still a pile of crap.

Maybe time to spend the money I was saving for a rifle project on magazines, hoping for a grandfather clause in the new AWB that will be shoved up our a$$.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 13, 2021, 05:17:02 PM
I don't think he's going to get everything he wants on that ''to-do" list.  Trying to put all semi autos on the NFA  is going to be a logistic nightmare.   I think he might get a assault weapon ban but if he tries to take any away the courts will not allow it. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 13, 2021, 06:22:02 PM
I don't think he's going to get everything he wants on that ''to-do" list.  Trying to put all semi autos on the NFA  is going to be a logistic nightmare.   I think he might get a assault weapon ban but if he tries to take any away the courts will not allow it.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Which courts are you referring to?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on February 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
Didn't he sign the senate report on the right to keep and bear arms sometime in the 1980's?  I will see if I can find a copy; I know I downloaded it but that was 4 or 5 computers ago, and it has probably been memory-holed online by now (I'm not yet willing to go in person the National Archives to find a hard copy)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 13, 2021, 08:07:34 PM
Didn't he sign the senate report on the right to keep and bear arms sometime in the 1980's?  I will see if I can find a copy; I know I downloaded it but that was 4 or 5 computers ago, and it has probably been memory-holed online by now (I'm not yet willing to go in person the National Archives to find a hard copy)

Here ya go: https://ryoc.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1982-Congressional-Report-on-the-Right-to-Keep-and-Bear-Arms.pdf

Don't know if Biden signed it, but he was a member of the Judiciary Committee, which produced it.

I suggest that everyone should download it. I had it bookmarked on another site, from which it has disappeared. Both this report and the 2004 DOJ report keep disappearing, and I don't think that's an accident.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 13, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Which courts are you referring to?

The Supreme Court.   With the Trump justices it seems pretty well positioned to defend the second amendment.  I also don't think every democrat will support what Biden wants.


I could be wrong,  but if I am, then may God Almighty help this country,  because it isn't going to end like  President "Ponysoldier" Biden seems to believe it will. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 14, 2021, 12:52:41 PM
On Parkland anniversary, Biden calls for tougher gun laws
https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/14/parkland-anniversary-biden-calls-tougher-gun-laws/

Quote
The president used the occasion to call on Congress to strengthen gun laws, including requiring background checks on all gun sales and banning assault weapons.

There was no time to wait, the president said. “We owe it to all those we’ve lost and to all those left behind to grieve to make a change. The time to act is now.”
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on February 14, 2021, 01:17:36 PM
I believe they will hold off on the really egregious stuff until they get the SCOTUS packed the way they want.  No sense in passing a bunch of unconstitutional laws if there is a 50-50 or better chance the court will overturn them.
But unconstitutional laws are coming once the court is packed.  The Dems are absolutely determined to make their gun control wet dreams come true.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on February 14, 2021, 01:24:22 PM
I honestly believe that nothing will push this Balkanized country into killing each other faster than trying to collect "assault weapons".  I think, based on what of seen of other strongly tribal countries, that from where we are now this only ends in bloodshed anyway, but that will hasten it like nothing else.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on February 14, 2021, 03:56:49 PM
Yep going to be hard to get away with much until they pack the court. Missouri will push back and so will other states.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 14, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
On Parkland anniversary, Biden calls for tougher gun laws
https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/14/parkland-anniversary-biden-calls-tougher-gun-laws/

Thr Epoch Times mentioned a couple of other things as well:

Quote
Today, I am calling on Congress to enact commonsense gun law reforms, including requiring background checks on all gun sales, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and eliminating immunity for gun manufacturers who knowingly put weapons of war on our streets.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-calls-on-congress-to-restrict-gun-ownership_3696206.html?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-02-14-2
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on February 14, 2021, 04:22:27 PM
Going to be fun. The ar platform defines common use.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: tokugawa on February 14, 2021, 04:28:03 PM
The problem comes when the gun owners simply refuse to obey an illegitimate government and abrogation of their God given and constitutionally guaranteed rights, and resist. At first, most will duck and stay quiet- that will last for a little while, until enforcement starts and a few people get killed.  That is when the dirty war starts. When it does, the target list will go exponential.

Some of you guys know first hand what this looks like- neighbor against neighbor, cop against cops, neighbor against cop, cop against boss cop,  sister against brother, and on and on and on.  I am fortunate, all my knowledge is from books.

They must know this. Seriously, they must. And it will destroy the country as a governable entity. So why?
The only answer I can come up with is they think an intact functional USA is an impediment to world rule.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 14, 2021, 10:24:33 PM
Gotta have some kind of crisis to justify bringing in UN troops.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on February 14, 2021, 10:33:16 PM
Gotta have some kind of crisis to justify bringing in UN troops.

Don’t threaten us with a good time
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 14, 2021, 11:39:06 PM
Don’t threaten us with a good time
:rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: lee n. field on February 15, 2021, 08:36:31 AM
The problem comes when the gun owners simply refuse to obey an illegitimate government and abrogation of their God given and constitutionally guaranteed rights, and resist.

Something egregious will happen.  It will be oddly timely.  Talking points and social media campaign will be all ready to go.  The g00gleborg, Twitter and the Book of Faces will squash any opposing voices.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 15, 2021, 09:45:11 AM
Looks like Joe is using the Parkland anniversary to push his gun agenda.

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/biden-gun-control-message/2021/02/14/id/1009959/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: DittoHead on February 15, 2021, 10:35:24 AM
I'd feel a lot more comfortable if cocaine Mitch was in charge right now.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on February 15, 2021, 01:03:30 PM
I agree, Mitch would be light years better.

Maybe if the Republicans weren't divided and had all pulled together under Trump in time for the election we wouldn't be in this predicament.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on February 15, 2021, 01:32:49 PM
Many, like me, held our nose and supported pappa Bush, Dole, McCain, Romney and other *expletive deleted*it sandwiches the establishment served up in a show of solidarity.

The establishment shows little to no solidarity with their voters ie base.

Now, how many of us have moved on to the accelerationist point of view?

Let the leftists take over, let the whole Republican Party lose every election and hopefully survive the eventual leftist collapse and be there to help pick up the pieces and rebuild.
 
If the moronic Republicans think they are going to go back to their business as usual practices cutting the MAGA crowd out then they have a rude awakening coming I suspect.

I'd probably support a return to MAGA but I'm willing to let it all burn down before supporting the establishment/neo-con traitors ever again.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 16, 2021, 08:27:50 AM
Some more stuff being introduced:

Quote
Chairwoman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) recently introduced a gun-control package to try to prevent the type of mass shooting that occurred at Marjory Stoneman Douglas.

The package includes The Gun Trafficking and Crime Prevention Act (pdf), The Gun Show Loophole Closing Act (pdf), The NICS Review Act (pdf), The Firearm Risk Protection Act (pdf), and The Handgun Trigger Safety Act (pdf).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/speaker-pelosi-and-top-democrats-renew-their-call-for-gun-control_3697482.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 16, 2021, 07:51:26 PM
Oh, goodie, we are back on the SmartGunz (pat pending) again.  Wonder when someone comes up with the idea of requiring RFID chips in the hands of gun owners.  You know, so their guns work.  Sure. That's why...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 16, 2021, 07:53:16 PM
Oh, goodie, we are back on the SmartGunz (pat pending) again.  Wonder when someone comes up with the idea of requiring RFID chips in the hands of gun owners.  You know, so their guns work.  Sure. That's why...


Not just in gun owners
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: charby on February 16, 2021, 08:02:12 PM
I wish someone would make a O/U shotgun that looks like a AR-15.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 17, 2021, 05:40:13 PM
"Slow walk background checks".

That's one I was worried about regarding my suppressor that's still in jail.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/how-could-biden-tighten-gun-control-without-congress-approval
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 17, 2021, 07:03:45 PM
From what I'm seeing, the strategy if the "frog in hit water" approach.  Start with background checks, go to an AWB, maybe go after "internet sales".  See what kind of fight they get on these.  Biden throws some Ex Orders, sees how far he can go before a judge says no.  How far they take this may depend on how hard we fight back.  It would be nice if these new gun owners join our side.  I fear a lot of them bought a gun and a few boxes of ammo, stuck them with their lanterns and canned goods, and couldn't care less about RKBA.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 19, 2021, 10:08:06 AM
Polls are polls, so taken with a grain of salt:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/most-republicans-satisfied-with-us-gun-laws-most-democrats-dissatisified-poll_3703161.html

My first thought when reading this, if the numbers are accurate, was the old "pie analogy". If Rs are satisfied with current laws, they are satisfied with a whole pie that is 6" in diameter, versus the 36" diameter whole pie we started with.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
"Bipartisan". Freakin' RINOs.

Quote
Original cosponsors for the federal expansion of background checks on all gun sales include Robin Kelly (D-Ill.), Fred Upton (R-Mich.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.), Christopher Smith (R-N.J.),  and Lucy McBath (D-Ga.).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bipartisan-background-checks-act-of-2021-reintroduced_3717714.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 03, 2021, 11:02:19 AM
"Bipartisan". Freakin' RINOs.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bipartisan-background-checks-act-of-2021-reintroduced_3717714.html

 :facepalm:   we've known for a long time that not every Repub is 2A friendly.  The big question is what goes through the senate;  do the demon-rats remember th 94 AWB and what happened the next election? ? ?

Keep your powder dry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 03, 2021, 11:10:54 AM
:facepalm:   we've known for a long time that not every Repub is 2A friendly.  The big question is what goes through the senate;  do the demon-rats remember th 94 AWB and what happened the next election? ? ?

Keep your powder dry.

Real question is with the way they appear to have control of elections now do they even care? And remember whatever they pass this time you can bet dollars to donuts it won't have an expiration date like the 94 bill did so even if they are elected out the damage will be done and don't hold your breath on anything getting repealed afterwards.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 03, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Real question is with the way they appear to have control of elections now do they even care? And remember whatever they pass this time you can bet dollars to donuts it won't have an expiration date like the 94 bill did so even if they are elected out the damage will be done and don't hold your breath on anything getting repealed afterwards.

If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2021, 11:47:47 AM
If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.

The really insidious thing about HR1 is that any states that individually fight it will end up making it stronger. I see several flyover states are now pushing voter ID and other laws to protect election integrity. All that means is that there is less voter fraud in those particular states and the states with lax laws still have rampant fraud. If we can't get voter ID laws in states like CA, or, as it appears, HR1 makes voting even less secure in those states, we are doomed as far as working within the system. One step closer to rifle time.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 03, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.

"Comrade Lenin Cleanses The Earth Of Filth"

(https://i.etsystatic.com/18641759/r/il/99f7c8/2130335352/il_570xN.2130335352_7h1a.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 03, 2021, 11:28:27 PM
"Slow walk background checks".

That's one I was worried about regarding my suppressor that's still in jail.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/how-could-biden-tighten-gun-control-without-congress-approval
I thought suppressors did not use the NICS system for the background check. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 04, 2021, 08:08:50 AM
I thought suppressors did not use the NICS system for the background check.

I wasn't talking specifically NICS, but anything that requires a fed.gov background check. AFAIK, there is no time limit in which the gov HAS to process a tax stamp application. What's to keep administrators from telling their employees, "Don't process all that suppressor paperwork right now - we have some higher priority stuff you have to do." No law required, just bureaucracy acting in the classical meaning of sabotage.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 08:37:27 AM
Apparently a pro 2A Michigan Senate Resolution is "Insurrection Material" according to another state senator 

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/resolutionintroduced/Senate/pdf/2021-SIR-0022.pdf

Pro 2nd Amendment Resolution Called Insurrection Material?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_qJCQo1uI
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 05, 2021, 09:32:56 AM
Apparently a pro 2A Michigan Senate Resolution is "Insurrection Material" according to another state senator 

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/resolutionintroduced/Senate/pdf/2021-SIR-0022.pdf

Pro 2nd Amendment Resolution Called Insurrection Material?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_qJCQo1uI

Well, yeah, it is.  That's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment exists.  It exists in case we need to toss the rascals out and they do not wish to go quietly.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
Good way of looking at it but I'm sure she equates insurrection with far right wing extremists, white supremacy, etc...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 05, 2021, 10:26:59 AM
Good way of looking at it but I'm sure she equates insurrection with far right wing extremists, white supremacy, etc...

More like a 4 year old who just learned a new word.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 05, 2021, 06:54:45 PM
Well it looks like as of now, my fear of "slow walking" tax stamps is not happening. The owner of my LGS just called to let me know the can stamp for my M1A came in. We were talking and I mentioned my fear of the slow down and surprise that it came in already. He checked the paperwork, and not only did it come in early, but is the fastest that I've gotten one. My last two took seven months. On this one, BATF got the paperwork on 01SEP and approved and mailed the stamp on 02FEB. The freaking post office took a month to deliver it today, 05MAR.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 06, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
HR8 - (Universal background checks (which is basically pointless without registration )) and HR 1446 - (Unlimited, or up to 30 days depending on how you read the bill, background check holds that can only be cleared up by the customer filing a petition for review) are coming up to bat next week.

The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/the-dark-side-of-the-universal-background-check-bill-hr8/#axzz6oL7DDYDO

Enhanced Background Check Act 2021 (HR 1446) Explained
https://rocketffl.com/enhanced-background-check-act-2021-hr-1446/

'A Huge Moment': Gun Safety Groups Hopeful About Bipartisan Background Checks Bill
https://www.newsweek.com/huge-moment-gun-safety-groups-hopeful-about-bipartisan-background-checks-bill-1573282

HR8 & HR1446 Officially On House Schedule For Next Week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0eIKoDnFu4
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 06, 2021, 01:16:53 PM
I figure in five years time we will no longer have a Second Amendment.  The Constitution itself may be gone, replaced by a new one written by our political betters where the government grants us "human rights".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: tokugawa on March 11, 2021, 01:58:37 AM
I figure in five years time we will no longer have a Second Amendment. country.
Fixed it for ya.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 11, 2021, 01:36:07 PM
Headed to Senate....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/03/11/house-passes-Democrat-bill-criminalizing-private-gun-sales/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 02:22:18 PM
Headed to Senate....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/03/11/house-passes-Democrat-bill-criminalizing-private-gun-sales/

Does anyone know which Rs voted for it? I saw five of them co-sponsored it but didn't see all the names.

Additionally, the house passed HR1446, which allows indefinite delay of background checks, versus 72 hours.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-passes-gun-control-bill-expanding-background-checks-on-firearm-sales_3729592.html

EDIT: Just found the seven Rs:

Vern Buchanan (FL)
Brian Fitzpatrick (PA)
Maria Salazar (FL)
Andrew Garbarino (NY)
Chris Smith (NJ)
Fred Upton (MI)
Carlos Gimenez (FL)
Adam Kinzinger (IL)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 03:56:55 PM
Quote
Steve Scalise
@SteveScalise
·
4h
🚨 BREAKING → House Democrats just REJECTED an amendment that would have required ICE to be notified if an illegal immigrant tries to buy a gun.

But they’re fine taking away the gun rights of law-abiding American citizens.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 11, 2021, 07:11:23 PM

The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/the-dark-side-of-the-universal-background-check-bill-hr8/#axzz6oL7DDYDO


This is very interesting.  My thoughts going in were that, if confronted about how the owner obtained the firearm, the owner could simply end-around the law by simply claiming to have had the firearm for years.  Absent it being something recently manufactured, there would be no way for law enforcement to prove it was obtained after the law went into effect.  This seems to indicate that this is an intentional omission in the law to allow the legislature to "fix the mistake" by creating a national registry requiring owners to give the feds of everything owned so it can be used to make sure all current transfers are done with background checks.

Right now, most of my guns were obtained through private transfers or inheritance.  This goes into effect, I have to choose to give Uncle Sam a list or become a criminal...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
Idaho legislators are currently looking at pushing through what is basically "FU fed.gov" legislation regarding unconstitutional laws, making them "null and void". The local news I've read on this all cites gun control as one of the main reasons. I hope it passes, though I don't know how well it will stand up to the feds or courts.

https://apnews.com/article/legislation-idaho-courts-62397ad7b8109e5b0a9a6c16adef1592
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 07:43:17 AM
Assault Weapons Ban of 2021 Submitted in the House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCGgMEPztA

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/a/7/a77ca0d0-07b0-4cc1-8ce5-271997fe1947/063DD11B94F08E05113DFC5F9841B0C4.assault-weapons-ban-of-2021.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 08:07:36 AM
Regarding "large capacity" magazines (quote snipped for brevity):

Quote
‘(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—


‘(C) the possession, by an individual who is re13 tired in good standing from service with a law en14 forcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited
15 from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity am16 munition feeding device—
17 ‘‘(i) sold or transferred to the individual by
18 the agency upon such retirement; or
19 ‘‘(ii) that the individual purchased, or oth20 erwise obtained, for official use before such re21 tirement;


So retired cops get to have standard capacity mags?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 08:26:14 AM
Regarding "large capacity" magazines (quote snipped for brevity):

So retired cops get to have standard capacity mags?

Using dem logic since I couldn't get into law enforcement due to a preexisting condition I qualify   
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on March 12, 2021, 09:42:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDWuCCN9Vzg

 [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 12, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
‘(w)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to import,
sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting
interstate or foreign commerce, a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
the Assault Weapons Ban of 2021.

So does that mean anyone possessing a hi capacity Mag after passage (I hope not) of this bill is a criminal?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on March 12, 2021, 03:06:49 PM
‘(w)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to import,
sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting
interstate or foreign commerce, a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
the Assault Weapons Ban of 2021.

So does that mean anyone possessing a hi capacity Mag after passage (I hope not) of this bill is a criminal?
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 12, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.


I got in a fight with one of the moderators on another forum by saying that not having a grandfather clause would amount to a 5th Amendment "taking" and be unconstitutional.  (since I'm not a lawyer, I am not entitled to have a legal opinion unless I can cite actual legal cases)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 03:14:14 PM
They're throwing in grandfather clauses in as a bone. Later when the murder rate doesn't change (shock) they'll use that as excuse to repeal the grandfather clauses.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
205 listed weapons in Feinstein's ban, and that's if you don't count, "and similar to".

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ban-on-205-different-assault-weapons-introduced-by-sen-feinstein_3730994.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on March 12, 2021, 06:54:49 PM
I think we need to mount a wood chipper to the helicopter we throw them out of. Little pieces are better fertilizer.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 12, 2021, 07:04:24 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 12, 2021, 07:30:50 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.

I think this will have a tough time in the senate. There are enough blue senators that know that this will end their career. Manchin for one. Any squishy R that votes for is likewise done.

That said, I don't need any mags. But I became a gun nut during the ban years and because of the ban. And I remember paying $75 or more for Glock mags. And I have a lot of Glock mags now. Just ordered 35 more magpuls. I have 100 AR mags and but one AR so I will chill there and my M-14 count is 10 because they don't wear out and if you need to carry more than 10 you have bigger problems than small arms can solve.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 08:13:05 PM
AR mag prices seem to have not changed at all. Everywhere I go, they are pre-panic price and plentiful. I must have around 30 AR mags at this point and am not sure what I would do with more, but then I said the same thing about my ammo supply last year. :)

Other mags I have priced are going for higher than normal prices, but I think I'm pretty set.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on March 12, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Tempting to do some buying.  I feel like I'm good on mags, honestly.  That said, I always want more of something once it becomes restricted.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 12, 2021, 08:48:02 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.

DSG has 10 pack Magpul G2 mags for $98.  Came out to $105 shipped for me.  $10.50 per Mag is pretty damn good.

https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 13, 2021, 12:35:23 AM
I think this will have a tough time in the senate. There are enough blue senators that know that this will end their career. Manchin for one. Any squishy R that votes for is likewise done.

This no longer applies since the Dems have taken complete control of the federal election apparatus.  They know they are safe in their seats should they choose to run in the next election.

My predictions:  Every Democrat, the lone not-so-independent socialist, and several Republicans will vote in favor of this bill.  Number 46 will sign it into law.
When the new law eventually makes its way to the Supreme Court, the Court will refuse to take the case, thereby allowing the law to stand.  That seems to be the new modus operandi of the compromised SCOTUS.  Refusing to take a case gives them the political cover they need to not rule on a constitutionally abhorrent law.
I find it curious that the Democrats have gone mostly silent recently about packing the SCOTUS.  They were very vocal about that prior to and just after the election.
I also am surprised that the Democrats wrote grandfather clauses into the new AWB, and didn't go for outright bans on ownership and "buybacks" (read: confiscation).  That was their clearly declared intent prior to Nov. 3.  They have the political power to do both, and the SCOTUS will back them.  Why they chose to not go whole hog is very odd in my view.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on March 13, 2021, 12:37:28 PM
This no longer applies since the Dems have taken complete control of the federal election apparatus.  They know they are safe in their seats should they choose to run in the next election.

My predictions:  Every Democrat, the lone not-so-independent socialist, and several Republicans will vote in favor of this bill.  Number 46 will sign it into law.
When the new law eventually makes its way to the Supreme Court, the Court will refuse to take the case, thereby allowing the law to stand.  That seems to be the new modus operandi of the compromised SCOTUS.  Refusing to take a case gives them the political cover they need to not rule on a constitutionally abhorrent law.
I find it curious that the Democrats have gone mostly silent recently about packing the SCOTUS.  They were very vocal about that prior to and just after the election.
I also am surprised that the Democrats wrote grandfather clauses into the new AWB, and didn't go for outright bans on ownership and "buybacks" (read: confiscation).  That was their clearly declared intent prior to Nov. 3.  They have the political power to do both, and the SCOTUS will back them.  Why they chose to not go whole hog is very odd in my view.

It helps keep gun owners from getting too upset, while still pushing forward with their objectives.

Just like how over time, the NFA has religated MGs to expensive, niche items; so they would prefer with semiautos.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on March 13, 2021, 01:08:13 PM
AR mag prices seem to have not changed at all. Everywhere I go, they are pre-panic price and plentiful. I must have around 30 AR mags at this point and am not sure what I would do with more, but then I said the same thing about my ammo supply last year. :)

Other mags I have priced are going for higher than normal prices, but I think I'm pretty set.

The only mags I would really like more of is some 15 or 20 rounders for my Armalite AR10 that uses the modified M14 mags but they are rare as hen's teeth. Other than that I am set, more than set actually. Although I may splurge on a 60 round Surefire mag for my AR pattern rifles just because I can. I already have an older 100 round drum from back when the Clinton ban expired.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 13, 2021, 01:12:41 PM
I'd like some more Ruger Mini-14 steel magazines; I like the 20 rounders.  I got some aftermarket steel mags from CDNN a few years ago that work really well, but they don't seem to sell them anymore.  A few 10's would actually be handy too but I don't know if they make those. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 13, 2021, 01:17:23 PM
The only mags I would really like more of is some 15 or 20 rounders for my Armalite AR10 that uses the modified M14 mags but they are rare as hen's teeth.

bob

Stocked up on 20 & 25 rounders before Armalite started switching over to the SR-25 pattern mag
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JN01 on March 13, 2021, 11:28:24 PM
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.

It's called a loophole.  Not to worry, they will take care of that in the near future.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on March 14, 2021, 12:11:06 AM

I got in a fight with one of the moderators on another forum by saying that not having a grandfather clause would amount to a 5th Amendment "taking" and be unconstitutional.  (since I'm not a lawyer, I am not entitled to have a legal opinion unless I can cite actual legal cases)
Hmmm . . . there's a "legal" moderator on another shooting forum that has a habit of removing posts when he sees himself losing a debate . . . 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 24, 2021, 09:36:12 AM
Manchin shockingly is standing his ground

Despite Biden’s Plea, Joe Manchin Opposes the Two Background Check Bills Passed by the House
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/despite-bidens-plea-joe-manchin-opposes-the-two-background-check-bills-passed-by-the-house/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 24, 2021, 09:41:52 AM
Not content with violating the Second Amendment, the Biden administration wants to destroy the Fourth as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2021/03/23/biden-administration-urges-supreme-court-to-let-cops-enter-homes-and-seize-guns-without-a-warrant
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 24, 2021, 11:18:11 AM
I just saw an interview in the local news with an Idaho state rep regarding a newly introduced state bill "The Small Arms Protection Act". It was just introduced a couple of weeks ago and she said it's looking good, except that it needs to pass before Biden / Congress do any new antigun stuff themselves. I don't understand the legal reasons, but it would apparently not have as many teeth regarding already existing Federal gun control laws versus laws enacted after it is put in place.

I hope it passes. It wouldn't help with out of state travel, but in-state is better than nothing. We are currently a "2nd Amendment Sanctuary State", but of course that is more of a statement than anything else.

 https://legiscan.com/ID/bill/H0300/2021
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 24, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
Not content with violating the Second Amendment, the Biden administration wants to destroy the Fourth as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2021/03/23/biden-administration-urges-supreme-court-to-let-cops-enter-homes-and-seize-guns-without-a-warrant

(https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1651761)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Blakenzy on March 24, 2021, 08:07:26 PM
We are well into tyranny and no one seems to be doing much about it but I think that a strong move on firearms might be the watershed moment for many people holding back. What ever they do to disarm Citizens is going to have to be a half measure. They can't just jump, they still have to creep. Unless they intend to cause a ruckus of course. However given the pace of events, I don't think they have the patience to wait years for their schemes, it's more like months.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 25, 2021, 12:22:08 AM
However given the pace of events, I don't think they have the patience to wait years for their schemes, it's more like months.

My guess is that when Harris replaces Biden the train is going to accelerate into hyperdrive.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Blakenzy on March 25, 2021, 04:49:42 AM
Edit: repeated link to warrantless seizure story
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 07:40:56 AM
Talk of Republican compromise. Not unexpected. It's sounding like there may not be votes for a magazine or "assault rifle" ban, but I'm going to go ahead and lay money on something background check related passing in the next couple of months.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-gun-control-senate-house
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 25, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
When in doubt try guilt tripping them

Quote
“When Congress doesn’t act, it sends an unintentional but very real sign of endorsement to these would-be killers. It looks like we’re approving the way in which they are managing their grievances, because we don’t do anything year after year.”

By extension IMHO he's in effect also saying all gun owners endorse "these would be killers"

Murphy: By Failing to Pass Gun Control, Congress Has Become Complicit in Mass Shootings
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/murphy-by-failing-to-pass-gun-control-congress-has-become-complicit-in-mass-shootings/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on March 25, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
At a minimum, I predict universal background checks, possibly also waiting periods and magazine size restrictions.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 25, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
At a minimum, I predict universal background checks, possibly also waiting periods and magazine size restrictions.

Agreed.  But I'm also predicting a ban on imports by E.O., and I think that will be imported guns, parts, and ammo.  Also see the law shielding firearms companies in serious danger, especially if they kill the filibuster.  I'm hearing from sources at work that this is a primary goal, as it will allow gun and ammo companies to be sued out of existence.  Complete gun control without need for Congress to pass a single ban.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 12:46:58 PM
I am predicting Congress will not pass anything but Biden will try to do it with EO's including including the import ban.  IMO, that will lead to some interesting times. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 12:47:09 PM
My bet was on what Congress does. I agree that if Biden can do EOs, he'll do any he can.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on March 25, 2021, 12:54:31 PM
Agreed.  But I'm also predicting a ban on imports by E.O., and I think that will be imported guns, parts, and ammo.  Also see the law shielding firearms companies in serious danger, especially if they kill the filibuster.  I'm hearing from sources at work that this is a primary goal, as it will allow gun and ammo companies to be sued out of existence.  Complete gun control without need for Congress to pass a single ban.

Sort of like the 1st amendment right to free speech is being killed by big tech.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 02:48:00 PM
I am listening to Steven Crowder's live coverage of Biden's press conference today.  Biden was asked about the recent shootings, gun control, and the liability protection act he promised to remove.  Biden immediate started talking about infrastructure and clean water.  There was no follow up question.  Either he lost his place and started talking about other stuff or he is trying to avoid the issue.  If he is avoiding the issue, that is a good thing for us.  Hard to say with Biden.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 02:58:15 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/03/25/this-is-nuts-hunter-bidens-then-girlfriend-his-brothers-widow-threw-his-gun-in-a-dumpster-and-then-the-story-gets-even-weirder/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 07:59:47 PM
This seems like potentially good news:

Quote
President Joe Biden, responding to a question on Thursday on when to push gun control measures, promised a series of actions to regulate the sale of firearms but said his next agenda item pertains to U.S. infrastructure.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-gun-control-will-be-a-matter-of-timing_3749619.html

From the rest of the article, it sounded almost like he was brushing off the gun control question. The more things that get "prioritized" ahead of gun control, the better, IMO.

I won't get my hopes up, but I found it interesting that he actually said in a press conference that he wants to do infrastructure first, especially while the libs and MSM are on the gun control warpath.

I have to wonder if dem strategists are actually thinking about what happens in mid-terms after gun control legislation is passed?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 08:20:26 PM
https://tinyurl.com/yp4vjhu

Quote
Secret Service Intervened In Hunter Biden Gun Incident; Hunter May Have Lied On Background Check Form, Report Says

I doubt anything will ever come of this, but it fits with what we know of the Biden's. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 26, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
And I guess I was wrong again. No date given, but the language sounds like, "soon". Who knows what it will be. I'll bet an import ban.

Quote
President Joe Biden will sign executive orders on gun control in the near future, confirmed White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Friday.

When asked about the prospect of taking executive action, Psaki responded with, “Yes.”

“I can’t give you an exact time frame, in part, because they have to go through a review process, which is something that we do from here,” Psaki told reporters at the White House.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-house-confirms-biden-will-sign-executive-order-on-gun-control_3751243.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 28, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
A Dem insider I know claims Biden is going to ban by EO the importation of all firearms, firearm parts of any kind, and all ammunition.  My thought:  I know at one point a lot of gun companies were importing parts for assembly in US factories, including SIG and Glock.  It would be almost funny if DOD and .gov couldn't get new firearms because of this.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 28, 2021, 12:56:01 PM
A Dem insider I know claims Biden is going to ban by EO the importation of all firearms, firearm parts of any kind, and all ammunition.  My thought:  I know at one point a lot of gun companies were importing parts for assembly in US factories, including SIG and Glock.  It would be almost funny if DOD and .gov couldn't get new firearms because of this.

Any Us firearm company that can survive needs to pull a Ronny Barrett. Refuse to sell to them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 28, 2021, 01:12:50 PM
Any Us firearm company that can survive needs to pull a Ronny Barrett. Refuse to sell to them.

Sadly, only the smaller guys ever seem to have the guts (or lack of NYC shareholders) to do it. Barrett was a great example of someone with a niche product that gov entities needed (or really wanted). If someone like Sig said "no" to the gov, someone like Glock would swoop right in.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on March 28, 2021, 06:43:31 PM
Sadly, only the smaller guys ever seem to have the guts (or lack of NYC shareholders) to do it. Barrett was a great example of someone with a niche product that gov entities needed (or really wanted). If someone like Sig said "no" to the gov, someone like Glock would swoop right in.

To sell guns to the US government, those guns must be made in the US.  Glock builds guns in the US with some parts imported from Austria. 

Also, government contracts take a long time to bid, finance, accept, supply, distribute, etc.  If the military said today they are changing to Glocks, it would still take 10 years to make it happen.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 28, 2021, 07:03:11 PM
To sell guns to the US government, those guns must be made in the US.  Glock builds guns in the US with some parts imported from Austria. 

Also, government contracts take a long time to bid, finance, accept, supply, distribute, etc.  If the military said today they are changing to Glocks, it would still take 10 years to make it happen.

I was more talking about local/state. I think Barrett stopped selling to cops.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: just Warren on March 28, 2021, 07:25:11 PM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?

Would we really be that bad off? It could work out for us politically.

That is a lot more Americans will be employed directly and indirectly by the firearms industry making that a larger constituency of people who would be opposed to more gun control in general.

And encouraging home manufacturing of anything makes this country less dependent on outsiders and that's always a good thing. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 28, 2021, 07:30:35 PM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?


Repealing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which is a dem wet dream, will allow dem/leftest lawyers to then burn US manufactures to the ground in short order. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on March 28, 2021, 09:58:40 PM
How far will he go? There are many bullet mold manufacturers and other reloading parts made overseas. There has already been customs problems for some of them since the election.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 29, 2021, 12:51:55 AM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?

Would we really be that bad off? It could work out for us politically.


In terms of modern, semi-auto firearms I think we'd be fine. However, a total import ban would eliminate Uberti and Pietta, who make most of the cowboy six-gun clones -- including not only their own brands but also Cimmaron, Taylor's, and I think a couple of others. IIt would also put VTI Gun Parts out of business.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 29, 2021, 01:24:52 PM
In terms of modern, semi-auto firearms I think we'd be fine. However, a total import ban would eliminate Uberti and Pietta, who make most of the cowboy six-gun clones -- including not only their own brands but also Cimmaron, Taylor's, and I think a couple of others. IIt would also put VTI Gun Parts out of business.
  ----Which is why I would be a little suspicious of this.  I don't think  President Ponysoldier gives a tinker's  BLEEP about repro cap & ball and black powder guns. 

I have no doubt he'll issue a EO  banning importation of some guns and related stuff.
Right now,  I'm going to wait and see.   
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 29, 2021, 02:23:28 PM
Semi-auto seems to be the bad term these days so I can see an import ban being specific to semi-auto guns. 

Another reason to have the 45/70 lever action on call.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on March 29, 2021, 05:30:58 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ljqf0t7dhyp61.png)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 30, 2021, 08:12:08 AM
While I applaud people stepping up for gun rights, I sure wish this would be occurring in a post-Wayne NRA. He's probably secure in his position for the near future.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/nra-memberships-jump-amid-pandemic-push-for-stricter-gun-control_3755084.html

Quote
The National Rifle Association (NRA) has seen a jump in new members in recent months, with 150,000 signups in 2021 alone so far.

On average, the gun rights group is seeing about 1,000 new members a day, Amy Hunter, the NRA’s director of media relations, told The Epoch Times.

The surge is attributed in part to the gun restrictions being discussed by Democrats in Congress and President Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 30, 2021, 11:00:11 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 30, 2021, 11:04:40 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them.

I knew some Rs would fold on that. Some because they are really Ds, and some because they seem to only be listening to the "headlines" vs understanding both the current system and what the antis want to impose. The "common sense" excuse.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 30, 2021, 11:10:43 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them.

Because we need to do more of what we already know doesn't work to appease the liberal gods.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 01, 2021, 09:30:24 AM
Add another "boogeyman" to the growing list "Concealable Assault Weapons"

109 Members of Congress Beg Biden To Add "Concealable Assault Weapons" To NFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBl7tcMxG4A

The letter
https://neguse.house.gov/imo/media/doc/2021_03_31%20GVPTF%20Ltr%20re%20Concealable%20Assault%20Weapons%20(signed).pdf?fbclid=IwAR1jUwq6MLR76ACNZumjPbbQbgpmPXiTZiq2mlVawxNc8KzRIhDdjFaPSsg

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 02, 2021, 09:17:42 AM
This is probably just moron dem politicians spouting off, but as far as I know, Biden can't EO a ban on AR pistols (other than import related), can he?

Quote
A group of House Democrats has asked President Joe Biden to take executive action on “concealable assault-style firearms,” citing two mass shootings in Atlanta and Boulder, Colorado, last month.

“Concealable assault-style firearms that fire rifle rounds pose an unreasonable threat to our communities and should be fully regulated under the National Firearms Act consistent with the intent and history of the law. The recent tragedy in Boulder, Colorado where 10 people including a police officer were killed is one in a string of deadly incidents involving this style of weapon,” Reps. Mike Thompson (D-Calif.), Joe Neguse (D-Colo.), Val Demings (D-Fla.), and Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.) said in a letter to Biden.

They said that because alleged Boulder gunman Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa used a semi-automatic Ruger AR-556 pistol, which is a smaller variant of an AR-15-style rifle, either Congress or Biden should take action.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-democrats-ask-biden-to-take-executive-action-on-concealable-assault-style-firearms_3758815.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on April 02, 2021, 09:35:13 AM
This is probably just moron dem politicians spouting off, but as far as I know, Biden can't EO a ban on AR pistols (other than import related), can he?

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-democrats-ask-biden-to-take-executive-action-on-concealable-assault-style-firearms_3758815.html
Trump got the ATF to call bump stocks machine guns despite them not meeting the statutory definition.  Why couldn't Biden do something similar?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 02, 2021, 09:39:55 AM
Trump got the ATF to call bump stocks machine guns despite them not meeting the statutory definition.  Why couldn't Biden do something similar?

That's a good example. I simply don't myself know how far EOs can be stretched.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 02, 2021, 07:16:08 PM
In theory, an Executive Order can only direct in some way the implementation of an existing law or regulation. It can't create new laws or new regulations.

That's "in theory."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on April 02, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
I've heard that the ATF might try to classify AR pistols as AOW, but at this point it's all speculation.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 07, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
BOHICA ...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-executive-actions-gun-control

Looks like we'll find out tomorrow just how bad it's going to be.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
My prediction
Braces
"Ghost"/80% guns/lowers
Imported "assault" guns and maybe ammo
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 04:03:41 PM
80% firearms would be a hard one.  At some point, someone will have to decide when a block of aluminum becomes a receiver. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 04:14:06 PM
They are quoting the gun experts at politico, so certainly take it with a grain of salt:

Quote
According to a report from Politico, Biden’s order may center on so-called “ghost guns,” which would require individuals to undergo background checks when they purchase kits to build a gun. It’s unclear if this would apply to guns that are 3-D printed. The Epoch Times has contacted the White House for comment.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-confirms-hell-make-announcement-on-gun-control-this-week_3766379.html

I wonder if they will try to umbrella "kit" to mean the "everything but the stripped lower" kits that PSA and others sell? Or maybe even uppers?

The article also mentioned eliminating what the cool antigun  kids are calling the "charleston loophole" where you get your gun if the NICS takes more than 72 hours.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on April 07, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
80% firearms would be a hard one.  At some point, someone will have to decide when a block of aluminum becomes a receiver. 

Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 07, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
SCOTUS
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 05:00:35 PM
They don't want to wake up with a horse's head in their bed.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 05:01:15 PM
Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad
I assumed it was either a court ruling or an ATF regulation.  Never heard of a law saying that.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
I am betting on import limits/bans. 

On the domestic side whatever they do will be challenged in court so I expect it to be something they think they can either win or drag out in court.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Kingcreek on April 07, 2021, 05:03:09 PM
So now I need a ghost gun,
a high capacity assault ghost gun with a brace.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on April 07, 2021, 05:16:14 PM
So now I need a ghost gun,
a high capacity assault ghost gun with a brace.

Don't forget to buy some imported ammo for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Quote
Dana Loesch
@DLoesch
·
2h
Does it include bringing charges against members of his family for stealing a handgun and falsifying a 4473?
Quote Tweet
Breaking911
@Breaking911
 · 4h
BREAKING: President Biden to unveil executive action on gun control Thursday - Politico

‘Does it include…’? Dana Loesch has a GREAT question about Biden’s upcoming gun control EOs
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/04/07/does-it-include-dana-loesch-has-a-great-question-about-bidens-upcoming-gun-control-eos/

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 07, 2021, 06:08:46 PM
There better be a lawsready to go and impeachment papers since he is breaking his oath of office.

But in not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: robear on April 07, 2021, 06:09:55 PM
I have always wanted to build an AR.   Seems like now is a good time to at least get my 'ghost gun' 80% lower. >:D
So, I just ordered a 80% lower from 80percentarms.com.    Thanks for the motivation Joe! [ar15]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Quote
Zeke Miller
@ZekeJMiller
WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Biden to nominate former special agent, gun control advocate David Chipman as ATF director.

Quote
In his Twitter bio, David Chipman describes himself thusly: “ATF Special Agent (retired), Gun Violence Prevention Advocate @GiffordsCourage, Michigander in Virginia and Proud 97%er.”

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 06:52:04 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Biden to Nominate Giffords Gun Control Group Policy Advisor as ATF Director
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-to-nominate-giffords-gun-control-group-advisor-as-atf-director/

If you thought the ATF was a PITA now......
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 07:00:05 PM
If anyone was waiting on a tax stamp I would be willing to bet there's suddenly going to be some extra delays.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 07:30:03 PM
If anyone was waiting on a tax stamp I would be willing to bet there's suddenly going to be some extra delays.

Yeah, seeing this guy nominated, my first thought was to get another can in the pipeline, but then I wondered if it would even go through. It would suck to pay $800 for a can, then suddenly have tax stamps suspended or something and be out the dough.

Maybe this guy will be too much of a hot potato to make it through the confirmation hearings. At least a couple of D senators might be afraid of getting voted out if they confirm him.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 07:41:50 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

Quote
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey signed legislation on April 6 that would prohibit police and sheriffs in the state from enforcing new federal gun laws that may violate the Constitution’s Second Amendment.

Proponents of the bill have argued that it would ensure that the rights of gun owners are protected from what they have described as potential overreach by the federal government, while critics say the law will undermine cooperation between Arizona law enforcement and federal officials.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 07:46:54 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq

Waiting on something like that here in Ky. %$@! Dem gov would probably veto it but the Rs in the senate have enough votes to override.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on April 07, 2021, 08:04:05 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq (https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq)


I see those laws as a little bit dangerous; all they do is say police and sheriffs will turn a blind eye to federal gun laws and prohibits them from assisting the feds.  It offers no protection against the feds arresting and prosecuting you on their own, but it might lead citizens to think they had protection.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 07, 2021, 08:19:57 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Used to run Giffords. he worries me more than the possibility of some EOs.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 09:21:49 PM

I see those laws as a little bit dangerous; all they do is say police and sheriffs will turn a blind eye to federal gun laws and prohibits them from assisting the feds.  It offers no protection against the feds arresting and prosecuting you on their own, but it might lead citizens to think they had protection.
I like it since it might give pause to some of the big city police chiefs who would be tempted to go crazy with gun control enforcement. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
Some stuff seems to be leaking. "Ghost guns" and also...

Quote
The Justice Department will be given 60 days to issue a separate rule on stabilizing braces, which can turn a pistol into a more accurate weapon that fires like a rifle. Sixty days will also be provided for the DOJ to develop model "red flag" legislation that would allow friends and family members to identify an individual as a potential danger, thereby temporarily preventing the person from accessing a firearm.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-actions-gun-violence
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 09:45:00 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-initial-actions-to-address-the-gun-violence-public-health-epidemic/

These are the headers of the main paragraphs.
Quote
The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.”
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act.
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will publish model “red flag” legislation for states.
The Administration is investing in evidence-based community violence interventions.
The Justice Department will issue an annual report on firearms trafficking.
The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 07, 2021, 11:09:47 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-initial-actions-to-address-the-gun-violence-public-health-epidemic/

These are the headers of the main paragraphs.

If they go NFA with the braces and allow the free issuance of Tax Stamps as floated a while back I will just have to get a couple of extras for SBRing my spare lowers. ;)

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 08, 2021, 12:22:50 AM
Ordered two 80% AR-9 glock mag lowers just for spite. I have the metal for my 0% standard lower.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on April 08, 2021, 08:13:41 AM
Great, a policy director for an anti-gun group to be the head of ATF...Can't imagine what he's gonna do... ;/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 08:15:49 AM
Great, a policy director for an anti-gun group to be the head of ATF...Can't imagine what he's gonna do... ;/

But he owns a gun and has a carry permit!!!!!!!

Quote
In an op-ed he penned in The Roanoke Times last year, Chipman described himself as a "proud gun owner" who has sometimes been "mischaracterized as a gun grabber." Chipman noted that he supports gun safety regulations that would "save lives" but wouldn’t take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

"I am a proud and responsible gun owner, as are millions of Virginians," Chipman wrote. "I am also permitted to carry a concealed handgun. I am not afraid of lawmakers in Richmond passing laws to make it harder for criminals to get guns. In fact, I’m part of the majority who demand it."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-david-chipman-atf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 08, 2021, 08:19:55 AM
Ordered two 80% AR-9 glock mag lowers just for spite. I have the metal for my 0% standard lower.

Which vendor?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 08, 2021, 08:36:12 AM
But he owns a gun and has a carry permit!!!!!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-david-chipman-atf

There are two classes, peasants where everyone is equal and elites who are more equal. Only the elites can be trusted with guns, you're not an elite.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 08:39:31 AM
I found this link to a reddit Q&A discussion Chipman held. His answers here tell a lot about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/d285va/i_am_david_chipman_giffords_courage_to_fight_gun/

Example:

Quote
Hi David you made an appearance on CBS news and seemed to have made several conflicting or outright false statements.

For example at 4:40 in the clip below you state that its a

it's a myth that silencers can be used in lieu of hearing protection"

and then in your next statement

silencers are particularly deadly because they cause confusion in shootings and make it hard to recognize gun fire.

My question is: How is it something can be so loud that it still requires hearing protection, but quiet enough that it makes it hard to recognize gun fire?

In case you need a refresher the clip can be viewed at

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mass-shooting-of-12-in-virginia-beach-reignites-debate-about-silencers/


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David_Chipman
1 year ago
I'll let this gun violence survivor speak for themselves.

"When we heard the first shots, it sounded like a nail gun going off."

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/02/728986386/virginia-beach-shooting-survivor-says-victim-laid-down-his-life-to-save-colleagu

He also really hammers on AR pistols in this discussion.

Edit again. One more. You really have to read through that link. Holy moly.

Quote
1 year ago
Hi David. Should gun manufacturers be held accountable for things done by other people with the guns they sell?


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David_Chipman
1 year ago
Of course. Just like any other industry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on April 08, 2021, 11:51:25 AM
Biden moves on "Gun Control" (https://mail.google.com/mail/u/2/h/1g64661e1uspn/?&th=178b20d3e830bfec&v=c)

Large Numbers of NICS Checks (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-conducted-4-691-000-154631875.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cub2tzaG9vdGVycy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALyeZJ1WYywkfNG4YKLf_CzH1GBLAEAvRVSUF6HkOWEQyvlI0-1YSG8AiU5n2_UlgTjs6Uuu-yB46GOgSLv-_PHgf2UJJU1LYzxqSx2jKFzB7lsN2LsZH7hoTDkvm_4709_tOHIKw2nn7A8j042U2hi0sJYcViSwMEQiNlNclIbA)

I believe these gun sales are a direct result of the threat to our freedoms. I believe more and more people are beginning to see where all this government control is leading and realize that it may come to a shooting war. It will take a shooting war to preserve those freedoms and restore those that have been infringed or lost and no one wants to be caught unable to participate in such a righteous end to the dictatorial human debris that staff and despotically abuse the offices of our Constitution.

I think it is ironic that Biden and his ilk - authors all to the threat to our rights and freedoms - continue to press on with their agenda in light of the obvious rising of the people's ability to resist. We can only hope and pray that they reach the epiphany that they can't have us before those of us who revere our rights and freedoms and and revel in them must take a stand. I believe they misjudge our need and desire to remain a free people. I believe they have forgotten that their jobs working for the Constitution are primarily to secure our rights and freedoms or are simply ignoring their constitutional duties in order to turn us into subjects, slaves, and villein.

Woody

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 08, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
Biden moves on "Gun Control" (https://mail.google.com/mail/u/2/h/1g64661e1uspn/?&th=178b20d3e830bfec&v=c)

Large Numbers of NICS Checks (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-conducted-4-691-000-154631875.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cub2tzaG9vdGVycy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALyeZJ1WYywkfNG4YKLf_CzH1GBLAEAvRVSUF6HkOWEQyvlI0-1YSG8AiU5n2_UlgTjs6Uuu-yB46GOgSLv-_PHgf2UJJU1LYzxqSx2jKFzB7lsN2LsZH7hoTDkvm_4709_tOHIKw2nn7A8j042U2hi0sJYcViSwMEQiNlNclIbA)

I believe these gun sales are a direct result of the threat to our freedoms. I believe more and more people are beginning to see where all this government control is leading and realize that it may come to a shooting war. It will take a shooting war to preserve those freedoms and restore those that have been infringed or lost and no one wants to be caught unable to participate in such a righteous end to the dictatorial human debris that staff and despotically abuse the offices of our Constitution.

I think it is ironic that Biden and his ilk - authors all to the threat to our rights and freedoms - continue to press on with their agenda in light of the obvious rising of the people's ability to resist. We can only hope and pray that they reach the epiphany that they can't have us before those of us who revere our rights and freedoms and and revel in them must take a stand. I believe they misjudge our need and desire to remain a free people. I believe they have forgotten that their jobs working for the Constitution are primarily to secure our rights and freedoms or are simply ignoring their constitutional duties in order to turn us into subjects, slaves, and villein.

Woody

I would love to agree with you, but I can't.

Some people are buying guns because of the threat to our liberty, but I think most of the new buyers are of the mindset of, "I'd better buy one while I can."  At the first sign of new laws enacted or confiscation started, those new buyers will happily turn in their guns. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 01:01:40 PM
If you can stomach it, Harris and Biden:

https://youtu.be/SXosHWozjeo

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-guns-remarks-executive-actions

EDIT: That video also made me breathe a sigh of relief that Merrick Garland did not make it onto the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 08, 2021, 01:27:24 PM
Which vendor?

80percentarms.com
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 08, 2021, 01:50:23 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 02:32:48 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

If they say it loud enough and long enough then people will believe it because that will be their basis for learning about the Constitution. It doesn't get taught in school anymore so what people learn is what they hear.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 03:15:15 PM
I would love to agree with you, but I can't.

Some people are buying guns because of the threat to our liberty, but I think most of the new buyers are of the mindset of, "I'd better buy one while I can."  At the first sign of new laws enacted or confiscation started, those new buyers will happily turn in their guns.
So far, compliance rates with "turn'em in" laws in a few states has been incredible low. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 08, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
80% lowers doubled in price on some sites today.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 07:08:23 PM
80% lowers doubled in price on some sites today.

Well, isn't that a total surprise. Douchebags.  ;/

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on April 08, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

I'd say that puts him in violation of his oath of office,  and directly into conflict with my oath of enlistment.

 [popcorn]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Kingcreek on April 08, 2021, 08:26:42 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 08:41:33 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.

We all know they do not look dangerous. Actually, there isn't any danger at all with a 80% lower.That is not the point as far as the current administration is, it is the IDEA that is dangerous. Many ideas have become dangerous, just look at the cancel culture!

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 08, 2021, 09:04:51 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on April 08, 2021, 09:23:31 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind

Yeah, but ... Only dangerous to them.

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 09:43:46 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.
I need to get a block of aluminum and put a serial number on it. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 09:45:33 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind
Except they have no control and tracing doesn't provide that.  How does tracing help with all the guns we hear about stolen from police vehicles?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 08, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
I need to get a block of aluminum and put a serial number on it. 

Or a shovel. Both things can be made into a rifle.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 08, 2021, 11:44:39 PM
Or a shovel. Both things can be made into a rifle.

Just keep it separate from your shoe laces.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on April 09, 2021, 12:24:25 AM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

Essentially poli-legal drivel used by elitists to justify any intrusion into or assault upon our rights.  Sure, there are "limits" to rights as they were not ever supposed to justify harming others.  Freedom of speech doesn't protect libel or slander (usually civil law concerns) or incitement to riot as those are crimes and hurtful to others. The right is limited to the existential parameters of the said right.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"  is a pretty absolute statement.   It is "the right of the people,"  hence the right is connected to, and possessed by, the PEOPLE.  To "keep and bear arms" obviously means to "maintain ownership and possession of,"  and "to carry upon one's person"  arms (of the types that can be owned and carried).  "Shall not be infringed"  is the requirement no govt. may attack said right: the word "shall" is an "imperative," meaning it's not polite asking, it means "you WILL comply".  The government CANNOT  "infringe" the right.  I think many either do not really understand or deliberately ignore this word.  "Infringe" has two meanings in my dictionary; 1.) To intrude into.  2.) To diminish.  If one cannot intrude into, say, a room,  one may by definition not touch, alter, or  enter into the room to perform any function in said room.  If it must not be diminished,  then by definition it must remain whole. 

We have certain rational exclusions that have long been true;  for example, felons and excons are generally prohibited from owning or carrying arms as they have been adjudicated guilty in a court of law.  Children who are below "the age of understanding" cannot handle guns as they won't comprehend the consequences of misuse or might accidently hurt themselves or others.

But a adult who is in full possession of his rights, is not an excon,  must not have his rights under the Second Amendment be abbreviated, diminished, or altered.  In this sense,  it is absolute.

Not ALL gun laws will necessarily injure 2A rights.  A jurisdiction may decide that open carry is lawful, or that the weapon must be concealed.  But one, the other, or both, must be permitted.
A point of contention may be conceal carry permits  vs. "Constitutional Carry."  Must a citizen request "permission" to carry?   I suppose if the law is "must issue"  such a law can be saidacceptable,  but not "may issue,"  as capricious officials might deny a permit based on whim or political ideology.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 09, 2021, 08:18:31 AM
Wasn't sure if I should post this here, or in one of the "fake news" threads.

Holy hell. I thought I would click through the "local" news stations this morning to catch any "local" news on this and maybe get news on what Idaho is going to do to fight this. Instead, all three "local" stations pretty much mimicked the MSM when they covered Biden's speech from yesterday. Pretty much word for word, like from a script.

Which confirms that video that was posted here (I can't remember who or where on the forum). It was a Youtube compilation of 'local" stations across the country covering a national story. They all, word for word, said the same thing about the national story. Just confirming that "local" news is controlled by whatever national media corp owns the stations.

I will say that one of them had a separate story on Idaho reaction to it, and at least that was in line with state beliefs. Though it was like as 15 second segment, and the "local reporter" still managed to throw in that stupid Biden line that a brace makes and AR pistol "deadly accurate".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 09, 2021, 09:32:46 AM
Essentially poli-legal drivel used by elitists to justify any intrusion into or assault upon our rights.  Sure, there are "limits" to rights as they were not ever supposed to justify harming others.  Freedom of speech doesn't protect libel or slander (usually civil law concerns) or incitement to riot as those are crimes and hurtful to others. The right is limited to the existential parameters of the said right.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"  is a pretty absolute statement.   It is "the right of the people,"  hence the right is connected to, and possessed by, the PEOPLE.  To "keep and bear arms" obviously means to "maintain ownership and possession of,"  and "to carry upon one's person"  arms (of the types that can be owned and carried).  "Shall not be infringed"  is the requirement no govt. may attack said right: the word "shall" is an "imperative," meaning it's not polite asking, it means "you WILL comply".  The government CANNOT  "infringe" the right.  I think many either do not really understand or deliberately ignore this word.  "Infringe" has two meanings in my dictionary; 1.) To intrude into.  2.) To diminish.  If one cannot intrude into, say, a room,  one may by definition not touch, alter, or  enter into the room to perform any function in said room.  If it must not be diminished,  then by definition it must remain whole. 

We have certain rational exclusions that have long been true;  for example, felons and excons are generally prohibited from owning or carrying arms as they have been adjudicated guilty in a court of law.  Children who are below "the age of understanding" cannot handle guns as they won't comprehend the consequences of misuse or might accidently hurt themselves or others.

But a adult who is in full possession of his rights, is not an excon,  must not have his rights under the Second Amendment be abbreviated, diminished, or altered.  In this sense,  it is absolute.

Not ALL gun laws will necessarily injure 2A rights.  A jurisdiction may decide that open carry is lawful, or that the weapon must be concealed.  But one, the other, or both, must be permitted.
A point of contention may be conceal carry permits  vs. "Constitutional Carry."  Must a citizen request "permission" to carry?   I suppose if the law is "must issue"  such a law can be saidacceptable,  but not "may issue,"  as capricious officials might deny a permit based on whim or political ideology.
Well said. 

I think the felon/excon issue should be reconsidered.  I don't think the Govt should take away someone's rights permanently short of a death sentence.  If they have served their sentence and/or paid their debt, they should get their rights restored.  Whether that is after release from prison or completion of parole, I don't know.  I think it would trigger some changes in the way we do punishments if that were to happen. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 09, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Well said. 

I think the felon/excon issue should be reconsidered.  I don't think the Govt should take away someone's rights permanently short of a death sentence.  If they have served their sentence and/or paid their debt, they should get their rights restored.  Whether that is after release from prison or completion of parole, I don't know.  I think it would trigger some changes in the way we do punishments if that were to happen.

I agree with you on all points.

TommyGunn, your statement is dead-nuts accurate.  Every pro- and anti-gun person needs to hear that over and over and over.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 09, 2021, 06:51:53 PM
Fremont County (Colorado) Sheriff's Department responds:

https://krdo.com/news/2021/04/09/law-enforcement-react-to-biden-gun-control-measures/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2021, 09:31:03 AM
I have the feeling that this video will be making the rounds as part of the anti-ebr agenda. I can't tell if it's a brace or stock. Seems like a rare instance of using an AR in this type of situation.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-mexico-police-officer-fatally-shot-in-the-head-during-routine-stop-in-february-video-shows
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
As an aside, I am super surprised that standard capacity AR mags are still in good supply at fair prices. Magpul $12 mags are ubiquitous.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2021, 11:01:01 AM
As an aside, I am super surprised that standard capacity AR mags are still in good supply at fair prices. Magpul $12 mags are ubiquitous.

After the last couple of scares companies like Magpul flooded the market and people stuffed their closets full of them. I figured the market would get saturated eventually. Bet there's still warehouses full of them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on April 12, 2021, 01:17:54 PM
After the last couple of scares companies like Magpul flooded the market and people stuffed their closets full of them. I figured the market would get saturated eventually. Bet there's still warehouses full of them.
But . . . where's the ammunition to load the mags with?

It's not a matter of the ammo being snapped up as soon as it hits the dealer's shelves - by and large, it's never reaching most dealer's shelves in the first place.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 12, 2021, 01:44:04 PM
From what I've seen, the ammo situation is slowly improving, albeit at prices notably higher than pre-panic.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 12, 2021, 03:09:11 PM
From what I've seen, the ammo situation is slowly improving, albeit at prices notably higher than pre-panic.

Most sellers are still limiting to 1 box per here locally.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 15, 2021, 05:27:55 PM
 >10 mag ban bill submitted

Keep Americans Safe Act Submitted (Magazine Ban)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amnAbhjJAXw

https://www.menendez.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/keep_americans_safe_act.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on April 15, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Still waiting on my last order of 30 rd mags to come in...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 15, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
I’ve been buying a few here and there over the years...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 15, 2021, 10:26:46 PM
I wonder if this introduced legislation will start the yet unseen run/price increase on the 30 round AR mags?

I don't know that it will make it past the senate, but all it takes sometimes is the introduction to start the panic.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 15, 2021, 10:40:45 PM
Introducing a suppressor ban next:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/04/15/this-again-sen-dianne-feinstein-says-gun-suppressors-hide-the-sound-of-gunfire-from-potential-victims-and-law-enforcement/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 15, 2021, 11:00:53 PM
Introducing a suppressor ban next:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/04/15/this-again-sen-dianne-feinstein-says-gun-suppressors-hide-the-sound-of-gunfire-from-potential-victims-and-law-enforcement/


Yea well... come get it.  Oh, and good luck with that.  From Kansas state law:

Quote
Sec. 4. (a) A personal firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured commercially or privately in Kansas and that remains within the borders of Kansas is not subject to any federal law, treaty, federal regulation, or federal executive action, including any federal firearm or ammunition registration program, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured in the state of Kansas.

Quote
(b) "Firearms accessories" means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including, but not limited to, telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, collapsible or adjustable stocks and grips, pistol grips, thumbhole stocks, speedloaders, ammunition carriers and lights for target illumination.

Quote
Sec. 7. It is unlawful for any official, agent or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States to enforce or attempt to enforce any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States upon a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is owned or manufactured commercially or privately in the state of Kansas and that remains within the borders of Kansas. Violation of this section is a severity level 10 nonperson felony.

Should federal agents attempt to collect my suppressor, I will request that the Kansas state police enact a felony arrest of that person as they are committing a felony in the state of Kansas.

Kansas... we're a little prickly about our guns.  Stay off our lawn.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 17, 2021, 10:18:13 AM
Quote
BIDEN: "The folks who own guns, they support universal background checks. The majority of them think we should not be selling assault weapons. Who in God’s name needs a weapon that can hold 100 rounds, or 40 rounds, or 20 rounds." pic.twitter.com/iQIKno5MnV

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 16, 2021

Or 10 rounds or 5 rounds. Amiright?

Two rounds in the shotgun is all anybody needs. Or a musket.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 17, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Or 10 rounds or 5 rounds. Amiright?

Two rounds in the shotgun is all anybody needs. Or a musket.

Guess I will look like Mel Gibson in the Patriot. 3-4 muskets, hatchet, hide a field piece in the barn or something. In lieu of that I have spent way too much getting all my 9mm AR parts enroute to my door. Can’t afford to build both powers out right now but have all the parts for one. Learning curve, first non 22 blowback gun ever. Need a dot sight now too. Argh...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on April 18, 2021, 12:10:17 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 12:20:17 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

One dead, one wounded. Not a mass shooting. And there was another shooting at the same mall a month ago, with only one person (a police officer) wounded.

Not a Democrat operation -- not enough body count.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 18, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

Maybe!  But, it's easy to deceive ourselves based on our own preconceptions.  If there was some data source that we could TRUST about mass shootings, we could draw some conclusions.  I don't trust the MSM, obviously.  I don't trust many official figures published by US government agencies.  But, we have a member that has been meticulous in analyzing and recording this information, and I trust him.

So, I put it to Hawkmoon: Based on the information you have collected, have mass shooting increased during the Biden presidency?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 01:51:18 AM

So, I put it to Hawkmoon: Based on the information you have collected, have mass shooting increased during the Biden presidency?

I have logged 11 events for 2021, all since Biden took office:

Trump took office in 2017. There was one incident on January 6, 2017 (so under Obama), and two in April. I show 22 incidents total for 2017, including the one on January 6.

For 2018 I have 34 incidents for the year. (18 through April)

For 2019 I have 31 incidents for the year. (10 through April)

For 2020 I have 10 incidents for the year. (2 through April)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 18, 2021, 08:08:35 AM
Our perceptions are distorted by the volume of stories about an event that occur and how long they cover an event, how the stories are framed and whether the politicians are making official statements and talking about the event.



Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 18, 2021, 08:38:10 AM
Just ran across this article and it's apropos to this discussion.
Quote
"The US has reported at least 45 mass shootings in the last month"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/16/us/mass-shootings-45-one-month/index.html

Trusting anything reported by the government media complex opens you up to manipulation.

All media, not just the "leftist" stuff.

From the extreme left to the hard core right and everything in between, it is increasingly difficult to separate true information from disinformation.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 11:55:34 AM
Just ran across this article and it's apropos to this discussion.
Trusting anything reported by the government media complex opens you up to manipulation.

All media, not just the "leftist" stuff.

From the extreme left to the hard core right and everything in between, it is increasingly difficult to separate true information from disinformation.

I'm sure my database isn't complete. It began as a way to track school shootings. Then I expanded it to cover mass shootings in public places -- random attacks in places like malls, churches, and synagogues. However, one "official" definition just includes any incident in which three or more people are shot -- not necessarily in public places. So that leaves it open to domestic disputes, gang warfare, drug deals that go bad, etc. While those kinds of incidents aren't good, they aren't the kind of incident most people worry about when the media talks about "mass shootings," and so I generally don't count them.

The recent Lesslie shooting wasn't in a public place, it was at the doctor's home. But it also wasn't a domestic dispute, and two workers from an a/c company who happened to be at the site were also killed, so I decided to include it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 19, 2021, 08:48:54 AM
^I reject most everything CNN reports out of hand and assume that the opposite of their reporting is potentially closer to the truth.


Has anyone else seen the reporting on the big "ghost gun" bust in Spain? They are definitely setting the table to go after 3-D printing of firearms.

 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 19, 2021, 09:00:57 AM
^I reject most everything CNN reports out of hand and assume that the opposite of their reporting is potentially closer to the truth.


I do the same with them and other MSM outlets. I'm sure people on the other side do the same with Fox. This is the state of our news reporting and people's trust (regardless of politics) in it. It seems that the "5 Ws" of reporting are pretty much dead.

I am still happy with the Epoch Times, since their one big bias is their anti-CCP stance, and that's easily recognizable. Their other reporting seems to be closer to reporting facts without opinion than most.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 19, 2021, 09:42:58 AM
Maybe he'll recommend you buy two.
Yeah right

Quote
Myself as a public health person, I think you can’t run away from [gun violence]. I mean when you see people getting killed, I mean, in this last month it’s just been horrifying what’s happened. How can you say that’s not a public health issue?

— Dr. Anthony Fauci

Dr. Anthony Fauci Looks for the Next Big Public Health Battle: Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dr-anthony-fauci-looks-for-the-next-big-public-health-battle-guns/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 19, 2021, 11:47:28 AM
Maybe he'll recommend you buy two.
Yeah right

Dr. Anthony Fauci Looks for the Next Big Public Health Battle: Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dr-anthony-fauci-looks-for-the-next-big-public-health-battle-guns/
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: fifth_column on April 19, 2021, 11:52:59 AM
I doubt there are any more shootings now than there have ever been. There are just more of them being reported, advertised, and glorified (gore-ified is more accurate.)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 19, 2021, 11:53:49 AM
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies.

There's also one that says "Shall Not Be Infringed" that they're ignoring
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 19, 2021, 02:29:12 PM
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies.

When did the democraps start caring about laws?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 19, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
When did the democraps start caring about laws?
They seem to care a great deal about everyone else following laws, just not themselves.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 20, 2021, 08:19:36 AM
I have to admit that I was unaware of this "oversight authority" nor that Trump removed it when he was in (another stealth move by Trump, and one that I guess many of his supporters were unaware of).

Between it being The Hill, and the dumbass politicians they interviewed, I'm guessing there is a ton of inaccurate firearms related language here. But "sniper rifles"? Again? We're back to banning Savage 110s? I guess the bright side might be that it will rile up some of the Fudds that are fine with EBR bans. I'll have to mention this to the old guy (a Fudd) that I hunt with.  :laugh:

 https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/549065-senate-democrats-call-on-biden-to-restore-oversight-of-semiautomatic-and


EDIT: Oh, as an entertaining (or aggravating) tangent, check out the comments to this article. Not just on guns, but the people who read The Hill believe crap like this (a commenter responding to someone stating that with groups like antifa, people want to be armed):

Quote
Show us Antifa. Show us their leaders, where they meet, what destruction they have caused. From what I can tell, they are just a right-wing bogeyman

How locked down and narrow do your news sources need to be to actually believe this?

EDIT 2: I guess this is foreign sales. Still, bringing in nebulous terms like "sniper rifle" will have domestic gun control connotations.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 20, 2021, 09:08:52 AM
I suspect next up will be an attempt to ban any ammo that can defeat police body armor.
 Of course most any center fire rifle round will do that but that wont be the focus..
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 20, 2021, 09:10:24 AM
I suspect next up will be an attempt to ban any ammo that can defeat police body armor.
 Of course most any center fire rifle round will do that but that wont be the focus..

Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 20, 2021, 09:17:03 AM
The left is as relentless as the "right" is capitulating.

Amazingly the gun issue is the one place where the right has been able to bend but not be broken, holding the line and pushing back.

Hold the line!




Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 20, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
The left is as relentless as the "right" is capitulating.

Amazingly the gun issue is the one place where the right has been able to bend but not be broken, holding the line and pushing back.

Hold the line!
The R's seem to do that more when they are in the minority. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 20, 2021, 08:22:07 PM
Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.

So did Clinton when he was President.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on April 20, 2021, 08:30:41 PM
Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.

I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on April 20, 2021, 09:02:37 PM
I have to admit that I was unaware of this "oversight authority" nor that Trump removed it when he was in (another stealth move by Trump, and one that I guess many of his supporters were unaware of).

Between it being The Hill, and the dumbass politicians they interviewed, I'm guessing there is a ton of inaccurate firearms related language here. But "sniper rifles"? Again? We're back to banning Savage 110s? I guess the bright side might be that it will rile up some of the Fudds that are fine with EBR bans. I'll have to mention this to the old guy (a Fudd) that I hunt with.  :laugh:

 https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/549065-senate-democrats-call-on-biden-to-restore-oversight-of-semiautomatic-and


EDIT: Oh, as an entertaining (or aggravating) tangent, check out the comments to this article. Not just on guns, but the people who read The Hill believe crap like this (a commenter responding to someone stating that with groups like antifa, people want to be armed):

How locked down and narrow do your news sources need to be to actually believe this?

EDIT 2: I guess this is foreign sales. Still, bringing in nebulous terms like "sniper rifle" will have domestic gun control connotations.


I have said it before a few times...after “assault rifles” the focus will be on “high powered sniper rifles” and “deadly street sweepers”...aka deer rifles and shotguns..
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 20, 2021, 10:27:23 PM
I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.

What you did there, I see.  <yoda>
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JTHunter on April 20, 2021, 10:52:52 PM
I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.

Well, he has had plenty of time to "dry out".  >:D
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 20, 2021, 11:23:20 PM
Leaked ATF Document Details Biden Plan to Ban ‘Ghost Guns’
https://thereload.com/leaked-atf-document-details-biden-plans-to-ban-ghost-guns/

Quote
The document reworks and broadens the definition of what parts constitute a regulated firearm receiver. It then says any unfinished part that “may readily be converted” into a receiver must be treated as a receiver and requires sellers to obtain federal licenses, mark the unfinished parts with serial numbers, and perform background checks on buyers. The proposal provides only subjective standards for what makes an unfinished part “readily” convertible into a finished firearm but provides footnotes to court cases where the term has been applied. One court example included in the document said a part completed in “around an eight-hour working day in a properly equipped machine shop” was considered “readily” convertible. The only example of a ruling defining when a part is not “readily” convertible involved a process that “required [a] master gunsmith in a gun shop and $65,000 worth of equipment and tools.”
Quote
The document also lays out plans to broaden and update the federal definition of firearms receiver to correct a problem with the ATF’s interpretation of the current definition. Courts have begun questioning the ATF’s long-running determination that an AR-15 lower is a receiver despite not including several of the parts required in the current definition. Prosecutors have been forced to drop cases involving the ATF’s determination in recent years.

Video

ATF Leaked Document Reveals Rule Changes, Definition Changes, and MORE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAnLnMYgLww
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 20, 2021, 11:35:55 PM
So we have to serialize all pieces of metal now. And shovels because I have seen an AK reciever made out of a shovel. Serialize #D printer filament too.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 20, 2021, 11:39:49 PM
Quote
The document reworks and broadens the definition of what parts constitute a regulated firearm receiver. It then says any unfinished part that “may readily be converted” into a receiver must be treated as a receiver and requires sellers to obtain federal licenses, mark the unfinished parts with serial numbers, and perform background checks on buyers. The proposal provides only subjective standards for what makes an unfinished part “readily” convertible into a finished firearm but provides footnotes to court cases where the term has been applied. One court example included in the document said a part completed in “around an eight-hour working day in a properly equipped machine shop” was considered “readily” convertible. The only example of a ruling defining when a part is not “readily” convertible involved a process that “required [a] master gunsmith in a gun shop and $65,000 worth of equipment and tools.”

That is... extremely broad.

Assuming I had the fixture plates made up ahead of time, and the taps/reamers needed - with some practice runs -  I believe I could go from a 0% AR lower forging to a functional lower in my machine shop in under 8 hours.

Hell, people have made them for like, cutting boards laminated together, haven't they?  Think a guy even did one out of wood.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 21, 2021, 12:54:25 AM
ATF Says Serialize Everything With Retired Agent Vince Cefalu/ Hank Strange WMMF Podcast Ep. 750
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WziEXEikLY

Hank Strange has Vince Cefalu on his show this evening talking about the leaked rules and the new BATFE nominee.  I have only caught the first 1/2 hour so far and it sounds pretty good. 

He didn't talk a great deal about the ATF nominee, but he thought the nomination would never get out of committee and he didn't have anything good to say about the man.  Also some spirited debate about gun laws.  This guy approaches things from the perspective of a federal agent, but he seems to be general agreement with gun rights and freedom.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on April 21, 2021, 10:41:59 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

It is not a conspiracy, but it is not a coincidence either.

We have around 330 million people in the country.

A tiny fraction are crazy evil nut jobs consumed with feelings of inferiority and entitlement.

The media deliberately hypes these types of crimes for ratings and to attempt to pass gun controls.  They obsess over the motives and identity of these worthless losers, making them famous.  If the perps survive to go to prison, large numbers of girls write them love letters.  At least one of these swine had his cell wall plastered with bikini pics sent to him by these women.

Then surprise!  Crazies get the correct idea that the easiest way to become famous and "important" is murder a lot of innocent people.  These bastards study each others crimes and try to up each other.

The copycat phenomenon is very well documented. 

If our media would stop giving these jackasses what the want, there would not be as many of them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 21, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
That is... extremely broad.

Assuming I had the fixture plates made up ahead of time, and the taps/reamers needed - with some practice runs -  I believe I could go from a 0% AR lower forging to a functional lower in my machine shop in under 8 hours.

Hell, people have made them for like, cutting boards laminated together, haven't they?  Think a guy even did one out of wood.

I could 100 percent go from flat 1/8" steel to a functional lower in less than 8 hours.  Without a CNC.

I suspect I could go from flat sheets of 1/8" acrylic and a chunk of aluminum to a functional lower in about 2 hours with my laser.

All pipe must now be serialized.

Entertainingly enough, you know what can't make an AR lower in 8 hours?  A 3D printer.  That takes about 2 days.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 21, 2021, 11:51:35 AM
I could 100 percent go from flat 1/8" steel to a functional lower in less than 8 hours.  Without a CNC.

I suspect I could go from flat sheets of 1/8" acrylic and a chunk of aluminum to a functional lower in about 2 hours with my laser.

All pipe must now be serialized.

Entertainingly enough, you know what can't make an AR lower in 8 hours?  A 3D printer.  That takes about 2 days.

I've thought about the flooding the system angle.  Depending on the definitions and process of serializing, particularly if there's a grandfathering process that doesn't cost anything to register existing ghost guns....  Form 2's go Brrrr.....

One could pretty easily take, say a F150, and within the confines of their definitions make a lower out of it.  Thereby making every F150 owner in construction possession.  The problem is that antics like this are just ignored by the legal system, they impart no change in the status quo.  A shoelace and an M1 is technically constructive possession of a MG under current rulings, right?  Yet no one is ever charged with that one, but the law still sits there, threatening to bite anyone.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 21, 2021, 12:17:53 PM
I've thought about the flooding the system angle.  Depending on the definitions and process of serializing, particularly if there's a grandfathering process that doesn't cost anything to register existing ghost guns....  Form 2's go Brrrr.....

One could pretty easily take, say a F150, and within the confines of their definitions make a lower out of it.  Thereby making every F150 owner in construction possession.  The problem is that antics like this are just ignored by the legal system, they impart no change in the status quo.  A shoelace and an M1 is technically constructive possession of a MG under current rulings, right?  Yet no one is ever charged with that one, but the law still sits there, threatening to bite anyone.

This is not 1994.  This definition will get challenged in court in .32 seconds.  Lawyers will stand there with slam fire shotguns and point out they take 10 min to build.  F150's will be brought up, as will the aforementioned shovels, AR flats receiver plans, Sterling plans, the Aero rifle, and I don't know how many others.

This will force actual a judicial ruling on the ATF's "interpretation"  of 27 CFR 478.11 vs. it's plain text.  I won't guarantee a win for our side, but the pretty clear legal answer is that it has to go back to the Legislature for rewording.  Honestly, the words "readily restored to...." only apply to machine guns, not firearms as a whole.   This isn't even a 2nd amendment issue.  This is an issue of regulatory agency vs. legislation.

Could the courts say "*expletive deleted*ck 'em" and decide to turn a blind eye?  Sure, wouldn't even really surprise me.  But at least will know how for down the slope we really are.

If that happens I guess we can all climb n the Defund the Police bandwagon.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 22, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
Bill to make silencers illegal with no grandfathering.

H.R.3454 - Help Empower Americans to Respond Act
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3454/text

Bills Look To Both Remove Silencers From NFA As Well As To Make Them Illegal Nationwide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK-IO-5NJz8

Edit: Just noticed that bill is from June 2019
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 24, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
Funny how it seems just right after they propose a ban on something we get a highly publicized incident with that very thing.  [tinfoil]

GRAPHIC: ‘Ghost gun’ used in San Diego shooting that killed 1, injured 4
https://www.wave3.com/2021/04/23/police-dead-wounded-downtown-san-diego-shooting/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 24, 2021, 09:38:49 AM
There is no such thing as a coincidence.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 24, 2021, 11:10:47 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/montana-governor-signs-bill-to-protect-second-amendment-from-federal-gun-restrictions

Quote
Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte signed a bill into law Friday that's intended to protect gun owners in the state from any new federal regulations or bans on firearms.

"Today, I proudly signed Rep. [Jedediah] Hinkle's law prohibiting federal overreach into our Second Amendment-protected rights, including any federal ban on firearms," Gianforte, a Republican, wrote on Twitter. "I will always protect our #2A right to keep and bear arms."

Good for him.  Not sure how much weight this law will actually carry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 01, 2021, 08:58:41 AM
I wonder if AR mag supplies are starting to dry up? Primary Arms is not raising prices yet, but they have dropped their order limit to three mags per order.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on May 01, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Not that I’ve seen for AR Mags.  I’ve been buying a few 10 packs of Gen 2 Magpuls here.  https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on May 01, 2021, 01:59:30 PM
I must take exception to this:

Quote
(of the types that can be owned and carried)

Nothing in the Second Amendment limits the keeping and bearing of arms to only those which can be afforded or hefted.

My great grandfather, a whaling captain with his own ship, owned cannon and bore them on his ship, no special license, permit, or caliber restrictions. He could afford them. He could bear them on his ship. No law said he couldn't. The Second Amendment prohibited anyone from creating such a law. No amendment has altered the Second Amendment. Ergo, the Second Amendment means the same now as then, and the right protected is as absolute now as then. No court of law can change that. The right existed long before any court in this land - or any other land for that matter - was created.

The need to keep and bear arms is no less relevant and essential now as it was any time in the past.

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JN01 on May 01, 2021, 05:01:10 PM
Hell, the early government depended on those private ship owners, issuing them letters of marque which was an official blessing for them use their private arms to attack and plunder the British Navy.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 01, 2021, 05:26:44 PM
Hell, the early government depended on those private ship owners, issuing them letters of marque which was an official blessing for them use their private arms to attack and plunder the British Navy.

It needs to be brought up more as a counter-argument every time one of these dumbasses brings up the "but muskets" line. I want my own Littoral Combat Ship.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on May 01, 2021, 05:42:36 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sMy3k4EJDIY/ULj0uiuTcxI/AAAAAAAAHEU/AHyzaI_gpgY/s1600/Letter+of+Marque.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on May 01, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
Not that I’ve seen for AR Mags.  I’ve been buying a few 10 packs of Gen 2 Magpuls here.  https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01



I received my 10 mag order from them yesterday.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 01, 2021, 07:46:36 PM
It needs to be brought up more as a counter-argument every time one of these dumbasses brings up the "but muskets" line. I want my own Littoral Combat Ship.

I'm sure there's a pressing need for those where you live ...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 07, 2021, 06:05:24 PM
BREAKING: DOJ Publishes Proposed ‘Ghost Gun’ Rules, Outlawing Unserialized 80% Lowers, ‘Modernizing’ Receiver Definition
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-doj-publishes-proposed-ghost-gun-rules-outlawing-80-lowers-modernizing-receiver-definition/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 07, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
I'm sure there's a pressing need for those where you live ...
Hey, we have submarines.  =)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 07, 2021, 07:37:41 PM
Hey, we have submarines.  =)

We've got a submarine in Oklahoma too.

In fact, I could launch my boat in the navigation channel less than 40 miles from my house and "sail" to the Gulf of Mexico.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 07, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
BREAKING: DOJ Publishes Proposed ‘Ghost Gun’ Rules, Outlawing Unserialized 80% Lowers, ‘Modernizing’ Receiver Definition
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-doj-publishes-proposed-ghost-gun-rules-outlawing-80-lowers-modernizing-receiver-definition/

Hello 3-D printing.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 07, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Quote
Under the proposed rule, a “frame or receiver” is any externally visible housing or holding structure for one or more fire control components. A “fire control component” is one necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including, but not limited to, any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.

Any firearm part falling within the new definition that is identified with a serial number must be presumed, absent an official determination by ATF or other reliable evidence to the contrary, to be a frame or receiver.
Yet another ATF rule that literally ignores the law.
Sounds like uppers might be in the crosshairs.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 07, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote
To help keep guns from being sold to convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers, the rule would make clear that retailers must run background checks before selling kits that contain the parts necessary for someone to readily make a gun at home.

I wonder if they'll try to shoehorn stuff like PSA rifle kits (sans the stripped lower) into this? "Readily make" could certainly be defined in many ways.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 07, 2021, 09:00:08 PM
I wonder if they'll try to shoehorn stuff like PSA rifle kits (sans the stripped lower) into this? "Readily make" could certainly be defined in many ways.
The upper alone would be a receiver under these rules.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on May 07, 2021, 09:05:44 PM
Any externally visible housing or holding structure for a fire control part? Wear a case of triggers on your belt, congrats, you are now that state registered deadly weapon the braggy guy in boot camp claimed he was.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 12:45:05 AM
The upper alone would be a receiver under these rules.

The rule states that split receiver designs that already have a determination  (i.e. an AR15 design) will continue to use that determination as to what is a frame.  So they aren't trying to regulate AR uppers.

The "is designed to" language would seem to kill any commercial 80% (or 10% for that matter) frames.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 07:40:20 AM
The rule states that split receiver designs that already have a determination  (i.e. an AR15 design) will continue to use that determination as to what is a frame.  So they aren't trying to regulate AR uppers.
The rule unambiguously defines the upper as a receiver and does so in direct conflict of what the law says.  While there might be a determination right now, has the ATF ever changed a determination?

Also:
If the ATF lawyers thought they could do that, they would have by now.  They have dropped criminal cases and let people go over this issue, which you just know had to hurt their little black hearts.

There is no part (singular, as the definition is clearly singular) on many modern firearms that fits the legal definition of "receiver".  It will take legislative action to change that definition.  Those are facts. That can't be reinterpreted.
Your faith in the ATF has not aged well.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
Quote
Your faith in the ATF has not aged well.
indeed, my prediction has not.

I have learned more about the differences in Federal Law, Federal regulations, and rulemaking.  With new info I have had to update my thinking.  i.e.:

Quote
The rule unambiguously defines the upper as a receiver and does so in direct conflict of what the law says.  While there might be a determination right now, has the ATF ever changed a determination?

Is an untrue statement.  Federal LAW does not define an upper or lower.


I answered your speculation on what THIS proposed rule says.  If DOJ decides to update this rule again, then we would have to update our conversation.  But for now, ATF is explicitly not trying to serialize or treat as a receiver AR15 uppers.  There's enough bad in the new rule to deal with without inventing more problems.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 08:08:27 AM
Federal law defines what a receiver is. I never said it defines what is an upper or lower.

This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 08:18:33 AM
Federal law defines what a receiver is. I never said it defines what is an upper or lower.

This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.

It does not.  The receiver definition is a CFR, not a law.  Which we are all discovering is changed by the rulemaking process, not legislation.

Federal Law gives the director the regulatory authority to adjust the definition through the rule making process. 

Quote
This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.

This is also untrue, as the proposed rule specifically lists AR type multi-part receivers as not changing their determination as to which part is the receiver.  So if they wanted to include an AR upper, they would have to go through the rulemaking process again.

Have you read the actual rule, as opposed to the bloggers EXSUMS of it?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 09:07:48 AM
It does not.  The receiver definition is a CFR, not a law.  Which we are all discovering is changed by the rulemaking process, not legislation.

Federal Law gives the director the regulatory authority to adjust the definition through the rule making process. 
That's mostly accurate, although while CFR may not be legislation it is by any reasonable definition law.

This is also untrue, as the proposed rule specifically lists AR type multi-part receivers as not changing their determination as to which part is the receiver.  So if they wanted to include an AR upper, they would have to go through the rulemaking process again.
Given the change in rule is explicitly designed to be less exclusive and narrow, and allows the ATF significant latitude in determining what is and is not a receiver, and given that the upper receiver of an AR-15 does contain the bolt and bolt carrier as per the listed definition, and given that the ATF can and has changed determinations in the past, what in the rule would prevent the ATF from issuing a simple determination that an upper is a receiver absent going through the rulemaking process?

Quote from: dogmush link=topic=63952.msg1305057#msg1305057 date=1620476313Have you read the actual rule, as opposed to the bloggers EXSUMS of it?[/quote
All 115 pages?  No.  Have you?  I've read parts of it directly, though.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 09:24:20 AM
All 115 pages?  No.  Have you?  I've read parts of it directly, though.

Yes, I did.

That's mostly accurate, although while CFR may not be legislation it is by any reasonable definition law.
Given the change in rule is explicitly designed to be less exclusive and narrow, and allows the ATF significant latitude in determining what is and is not a receiver, and given that the upper receiver of an AR-15 does contain the bolt and bolt carrier as per the listed definition, and given that the ATF can and has changed determinations in the past, what in the rule would prevent the ATF from issuing a simple determination that an upper is a receiver absent going through the rulemaking process?



Quote from: Proposed 478.11 (Frame or receiver.) (b) (3) (v):
AR-15-type, and Beretta AR-70-type firearms: the lower part of the weapon
that provides housing for the trigger mechanism and hammer.

There's a picture as well.  It's on page 86  They would have to edit the rule again, through the rule making process.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on May 08, 2021, 11:28:16 AM
Any insight as to how the proposed rule change affects existing unserialized frames, or firearms that have already been completed on such?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 08, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Quote
As the proposed rule explains, from 2016 to 2020, more than 23,000 un-serialized firearms were reported to have been recovered by law enforcement from potential crime scenes

No doubt they're associating 80% lowers in with firearms where the S/N was  scratched off in that number.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
Any insight as to how the proposed rule change affects existing unserialized frames, or firearms that have already been completed on such?

The ATF has taken to calling those Privately Manufactured Firearms (PMF).  It's a long rule, but briefly:

o PMF's in private hands are not affected.
o Non-licensees may manufacture PMF's with no marking requirements.
o A PMF that enters a FFL's inventory MUST be serialized by that FFL within 7 days. (Definitely applies to normal FFL's, may apply to gunsmiths.)  The serial must begin with the FFL's abbreviated license number as a prefix, then have an identifying number.

On unfinished frames:  This rule would effectively make them firearms.  (there's some verbose wording, but they are clearly aiming for P80's and 80% AR lowers), so after the rule's adoption commercial 80% makers would need to serialize, pay excise tax, and be licensed Manufacturers.  There's no word in here how they intend to tell if when any particular 80% lower was made and sold.  So for example: I have 5 or 6 unfinished frames lying around my house.  Upon rule adoption, those are magically now firearms but as a non-licensee I am not required to mark any of my PMF's, so nothing should change for me, I think.  If my local gun shop has a bunch of unfinished lowers in stock, they magically become firearms, the FFL must mark them, enter them in the bound book, and sell them as firearm*.  If a prohibited person has an unfinished lower right now, upon rule adoption they are in possession of a firearm, and a felon.  The rule seems pretty dang broad and vague as to what level of unfinished chunk of metal is a firearm:

Quote
Partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable frame or receiver. The term “frame or receiver” shall include, in the case of a frame or receiver that is partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable, a frame or receiver that has reached a stage in manufacture where it may readily be completed, assembled, converted, or restored to a functional state. In determining whether a partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable frame or receiver may readily be assembled, completed, converted, or restored to a functional state, the Director may consider any available instructions, guides, templates, jigs, equipment, tools, or marketing materials. For purposes of this definition, the term “partially complete,” as it modifies “frame or receiver,” means a forging, casting, printing, extrusion, machined body or similar article that has reached a stage in manufacture where it is clearly identifiable as an unfinished component part of a weapon


*It is unclear to me in the case of existing inventory at a 01 FFL on magic firearm transfiguration day, who is required to pay the excise task, and whether the 01 FFL has just manufactured firearms for sale without a license.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on May 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
No doubt they're associating 80% lowers in with firearms the S/N scratched off in that number.

That was my thought, as well.  They're not the most ethical in how they sling their statistics.