Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on February 13, 2021, 09:04:57 AM

Title: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 13, 2021, 09:04:57 AM
Now that Biden is finished with the anti-Trump EOs, he (or his puppet masters) is ready to move on gun control.

Quote
“During the campaign, President Biden laid out an ambitious plan to make our community safer. And that’s why in part, yesterday, senior members of his team … hosted a virtual discussion with leaders of gun violence prevention groups to discuss our shared goals,” said Psaki.

“We look forward to working with gun violence survivors and advocates and sharing more in the weeks and months ahead about our efforts to make our communities safer,” she added.

The main part of Biden’s gun control agenda includes banning the manufacture and sale of “assault weapons” and high-capacity magazines, regulating possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act, buying back these weapons and high-capacity magazines from citizens, requiring background checks for all gun sales, ending the online sale of firearms and ammunition, and providing more funds to enforce these laws.

The gun control groups who were in attendance at Wednesday’s meeting shared their optimism about getting gun control laws in place that had previously been blocked by the GOP majority in the Senate.

“This meeting provided more evidence that the Biden Administration is committed to being the strongest we’ve ever seen on gun safety,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, said in a joint press release.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-house-reassures-gun-control-groups-it-will-fulfill-ambitious-gun-control-agenda_3695005.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 13, 2021, 12:52:50 PM
I've noticed that the phrase "gun safety" has been adopted by all of the Dems.  Makes it sound better, but it's still a pile of crap.

Maybe time to spend the money I was saving for a rifle project on magazines, hoping for a grandfather clause in the new AWB that will be shoved up our a$$.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 13, 2021, 05:17:02 PM
I don't think he's going to get everything he wants on that ''to-do" list.  Trying to put all semi autos on the NFA  is going to be a logistic nightmare.   I think he might get a assault weapon ban but if he tries to take any away the courts will not allow it. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 13, 2021, 06:22:02 PM
I don't think he's going to get everything he wants on that ''to-do" list.  Trying to put all semi autos on the NFA  is going to be a logistic nightmare.   I think he might get a assault weapon ban but if he tries to take any away the courts will not allow it.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Which courts are you referring to?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on February 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
Didn't he sign the senate report on the right to keep and bear arms sometime in the 1980's?  I will see if I can find a copy; I know I downloaded it but that was 4 or 5 computers ago, and it has probably been memory-holed online by now (I'm not yet willing to go in person the National Archives to find a hard copy)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 13, 2021, 08:07:34 PM
Didn't he sign the senate report on the right to keep and bear arms sometime in the 1980's?  I will see if I can find a copy; I know I downloaded it but that was 4 or 5 computers ago, and it has probably been memory-holed online by now (I'm not yet willing to go in person the National Archives to find a hard copy)

Here ya go: https://ryoc.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1982-Congressional-Report-on-the-Right-to-Keep-and-Bear-Arms.pdf

Don't know if Biden signed it, but he was a member of the Judiciary Committee, which produced it.

I suggest that everyone should download it. I had it bookmarked on another site, from which it has disappeared. Both this report and the 2004 DOJ report keep disappearing, and I don't think that's an accident.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 13, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Which courts are you referring to?

The Supreme Court.   With the Trump justices it seems pretty well positioned to defend the second amendment.  I also don't think every democrat will support what Biden wants.


I could be wrong,  but if I am, then may God Almighty help this country,  because it isn't going to end like  President "Ponysoldier" Biden seems to believe it will. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 14, 2021, 12:52:41 PM
On Parkland anniversary, Biden calls for tougher gun laws
https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/14/parkland-anniversary-biden-calls-tougher-gun-laws/

Quote
The president used the occasion to call on Congress to strengthen gun laws, including requiring background checks on all gun sales and banning assault weapons.

There was no time to wait, the president said. “We owe it to all those we’ve lost and to all those left behind to grieve to make a change. The time to act is now.”
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on February 14, 2021, 01:17:36 PM
I believe they will hold off on the really egregious stuff until they get the SCOTUS packed the way they want.  No sense in passing a bunch of unconstitutional laws if there is a 50-50 or better chance the court will overturn them.
But unconstitutional laws are coming once the court is packed.  The Dems are absolutely determined to make their gun control wet dreams come true.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on February 14, 2021, 01:24:22 PM
I honestly believe that nothing will push this Balkanized country into killing each other faster than trying to collect "assault weapons".  I think, based on what of seen of other strongly tribal countries, that from where we are now this only ends in bloodshed anyway, but that will hasten it like nothing else.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on February 14, 2021, 03:56:49 PM
Yep going to be hard to get away with much until they pack the court. Missouri will push back and so will other states.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 14, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
On Parkland anniversary, Biden calls for tougher gun laws
https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/14/parkland-anniversary-biden-calls-tougher-gun-laws/

Thr Epoch Times mentioned a couple of other things as well:

Quote
Today, I am calling on Congress to enact commonsense gun law reforms, including requiring background checks on all gun sales, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and eliminating immunity for gun manufacturers who knowingly put weapons of war on our streets.”

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-calls-on-congress-to-restrict-gun-ownership_3696206.html?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-02-14-2
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on February 14, 2021, 04:22:27 PM
Going to be fun. The ar platform defines common use.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: tokugawa on February 14, 2021, 04:28:03 PM
The problem comes when the gun owners simply refuse to obey an illegitimate government and abrogation of their God given and constitutionally guaranteed rights, and resist. At first, most will duck and stay quiet- that will last for a little while, until enforcement starts and a few people get killed.  That is when the dirty war starts. When it does, the target list will go exponential.

Some of you guys know first hand what this looks like- neighbor against neighbor, cop against cops, neighbor against cop, cop against boss cop,  sister against brother, and on and on and on.  I am fortunate, all my knowledge is from books.

They must know this. Seriously, they must. And it will destroy the country as a governable entity. So why?
The only answer I can come up with is they think an intact functional USA is an impediment to world rule.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 14, 2021, 10:24:33 PM
Gotta have some kind of crisis to justify bringing in UN troops.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on February 14, 2021, 10:33:16 PM
Gotta have some kind of crisis to justify bringing in UN troops.

Don’t threaten us with a good time
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on February 14, 2021, 11:39:06 PM
Don’t threaten us with a good time
:rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: lee n. field on February 15, 2021, 08:36:31 AM
The problem comes when the gun owners simply refuse to obey an illegitimate government and abrogation of their God given and constitutionally guaranteed rights, and resist.

Something egregious will happen.  It will be oddly timely.  Talking points and social media campaign will be all ready to go.  The g00gleborg, Twitter and the Book of Faces will squash any opposing voices.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 15, 2021, 09:45:11 AM
Looks like Joe is using the Parkland anniversary to push his gun agenda.

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/biden-gun-control-message/2021/02/14/id/1009959/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: DittoHead on February 15, 2021, 10:35:24 AM
I'd feel a lot more comfortable if cocaine Mitch was in charge right now.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on February 15, 2021, 01:03:30 PM
I agree, Mitch would be light years better.

Maybe if the Republicans weren't divided and had all pulled together under Trump in time for the election we wouldn't be in this predicament.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on February 15, 2021, 01:32:49 PM
Many, like me, held our nose and supported pappa Bush, Dole, McCain, Romney and other *expletive deleted*it sandwiches the establishment served up in a show of solidarity.

The establishment shows little to no solidarity with their voters ie base.

Now, how many of us have moved on to the accelerationist point of view?

Let the leftists take over, let the whole Republican Party lose every election and hopefully survive the eventual leftist collapse and be there to help pick up the pieces and rebuild.
 
If the moronic Republicans think they are going to go back to their business as usual practices cutting the MAGA crowd out then they have a rude awakening coming I suspect.

I'd probably support a return to MAGA but I'm willing to let it all burn down before supporting the establishment/neo-con traitors ever again.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 16, 2021, 08:27:50 AM
Some more stuff being introduced:

Quote
Chairwoman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) recently introduced a gun-control package to try to prevent the type of mass shooting that occurred at Marjory Stoneman Douglas.

The package includes The Gun Trafficking and Crime Prevention Act (pdf), The Gun Show Loophole Closing Act (pdf), The NICS Review Act (pdf), The Firearm Risk Protection Act (pdf), and The Handgun Trigger Safety Act (pdf).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/speaker-pelosi-and-top-democrats-renew-their-call-for-gun-control_3697482.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 16, 2021, 07:51:26 PM
Oh, goodie, we are back on the SmartGunz (pat pending) again.  Wonder when someone comes up with the idea of requiring RFID chips in the hands of gun owners.  You know, so their guns work.  Sure. That's why...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 16, 2021, 07:53:16 PM
Oh, goodie, we are back on the SmartGunz (pat pending) again.  Wonder when someone comes up with the idea of requiring RFID chips in the hands of gun owners.  You know, so their guns work.  Sure. That's why...


Not just in gun owners
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: charby on February 16, 2021, 08:02:12 PM
I wish someone would make a O/U shotgun that looks like a AR-15.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 17, 2021, 05:40:13 PM
"Slow walk background checks".

That's one I was worried about regarding my suppressor that's still in jail.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/how-could-biden-tighten-gun-control-without-congress-approval
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on February 17, 2021, 07:03:45 PM
From what I'm seeing, the strategy if the "frog in hit water" approach.  Start with background checks, go to an AWB, maybe go after "internet sales".  See what kind of fight they get on these.  Biden throws some Ex Orders, sees how far he can go before a judge says no.  How far they take this may depend on how hard we fight back.  It would be nice if these new gun owners join our side.  I fear a lot of them bought a gun and a few boxes of ammo, stuck them with their lanterns and canned goods, and couldn't care less about RKBA.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 19, 2021, 10:08:06 AM
Polls are polls, so taken with a grain of salt:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/most-republicans-satisfied-with-us-gun-laws-most-democrats-dissatisified-poll_3703161.html

My first thought when reading this, if the numbers are accurate, was the old "pie analogy". If Rs are satisfied with current laws, they are satisfied with a whole pie that is 6" in diameter, versus the 36" diameter whole pie we started with.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
"Bipartisan". Freakin' RINOs.

Quote
Original cosponsors for the federal expansion of background checks on all gun sales include Robin Kelly (D-Ill.), Fred Upton (R-Mich.), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.), Christopher Smith (R-N.J.),  and Lucy McBath (D-Ga.).

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bipartisan-background-checks-act-of-2021-reintroduced_3717714.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 03, 2021, 11:02:19 AM
"Bipartisan". Freakin' RINOs.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bipartisan-background-checks-act-of-2021-reintroduced_3717714.html

 :facepalm:   we've known for a long time that not every Repub is 2A friendly.  The big question is what goes through the senate;  do the demon-rats remember th 94 AWB and what happened the next election? ? ?

Keep your powder dry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 03, 2021, 11:10:54 AM
:facepalm:   we've known for a long time that not every Repub is 2A friendly.  The big question is what goes through the senate;  do the demon-rats remember th 94 AWB and what happened the next election? ? ?

Keep your powder dry.

Real question is with the way they appear to have control of elections now do they even care? And remember whatever they pass this time you can bet dollars to donuts it won't have an expiration date like the 94 bill did so even if they are elected out the damage will be done and don't hold your breath on anything getting repealed afterwards.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 03, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Real question is with the way they appear to have control of elections now do they even care? And remember whatever they pass this time you can bet dollars to donuts it won't have an expiration date like the 94 bill did so even if they are elected out the damage will be done and don't hold your breath on anything getting repealed afterwards.

If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2021, 11:47:47 AM
If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.

The really insidious thing about HR1 is that any states that individually fight it will end up making it stronger. I see several flyover states are now pushing voter ID and other laws to protect election integrity. All that means is that there is less voter fraud in those particular states and the states with lax laws still have rampant fraud. If we can't get voter ID laws in states like CA, or, as it appears, HR1 makes voting even less secure in those states, we are doomed as far as working within the system. One step closer to rifle time.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 03, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
If H. R. 1 becomes law,  THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS IS DEAD.

"Comrade Lenin Cleanses The Earth Of Filth"

(https://i.etsystatic.com/18641759/r/il/99f7c8/2130335352/il_570xN.2130335352_7h1a.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 03, 2021, 11:28:27 PM
"Slow walk background checks".

That's one I was worried about regarding my suppressor that's still in jail.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/how-could-biden-tighten-gun-control-without-congress-approval
I thought suppressors did not use the NICS system for the background check. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 04, 2021, 08:08:50 AM
I thought suppressors did not use the NICS system for the background check.

I wasn't talking specifically NICS, but anything that requires a fed.gov background check. AFAIK, there is no time limit in which the gov HAS to process a tax stamp application. What's to keep administrators from telling their employees, "Don't process all that suppressor paperwork right now - we have some higher priority stuff you have to do." No law required, just bureaucracy acting in the classical meaning of sabotage.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 08:37:27 AM
Apparently a pro 2A Michigan Senate Resolution is "Insurrection Material" according to another state senator 

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/resolutionintroduced/Senate/pdf/2021-SIR-0022.pdf

Pro 2nd Amendment Resolution Called Insurrection Material?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_qJCQo1uI
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 05, 2021, 09:32:56 AM
Apparently a pro 2A Michigan Senate Resolution is "Insurrection Material" according to another state senator 

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/resolutionintroduced/Senate/pdf/2021-SIR-0022.pdf

Pro 2nd Amendment Resolution Called Insurrection Material?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf_qJCQo1uI

Well, yeah, it is.  That's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment exists.  It exists in case we need to toss the rascals out and they do not wish to go quietly.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 05, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
Good way of looking at it but I'm sure she equates insurrection with far right wing extremists, white supremacy, etc...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 05, 2021, 10:26:59 AM
Good way of looking at it but I'm sure she equates insurrection with far right wing extremists, white supremacy, etc...

More like a 4 year old who just learned a new word.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 05, 2021, 06:54:45 PM
Well it looks like as of now, my fear of "slow walking" tax stamps is not happening. The owner of my LGS just called to let me know the can stamp for my M1A came in. We were talking and I mentioned my fear of the slow down and surprise that it came in already. He checked the paperwork, and not only did it come in early, but is the fastest that I've gotten one. My last two took seven months. On this one, BATF got the paperwork on 01SEP and approved and mailed the stamp on 02FEB. The freaking post office took a month to deliver it today, 05MAR.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 06, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
HR8 - (Universal background checks (which is basically pointless without registration )) and HR 1446 - (Unlimited, or up to 30 days depending on how you read the bill, background check holds that can only be cleared up by the customer filing a petition for review) are coming up to bat next week.

The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/the-dark-side-of-the-universal-background-check-bill-hr8/#axzz6oL7DDYDO

Enhanced Background Check Act 2021 (HR 1446) Explained
https://rocketffl.com/enhanced-background-check-act-2021-hr-1446/

'A Huge Moment': Gun Safety Groups Hopeful About Bipartisan Background Checks Bill
https://www.newsweek.com/huge-moment-gun-safety-groups-hopeful-about-bipartisan-background-checks-bill-1573282

HR8 & HR1446 Officially On House Schedule For Next Week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0eIKoDnFu4
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 06, 2021, 01:16:53 PM
I figure in five years time we will no longer have a Second Amendment.  The Constitution itself may be gone, replaced by a new one written by our political betters where the government grants us "human rights".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: tokugawa on March 11, 2021, 01:58:37 AM
I figure in five years time we will no longer have a Second Amendment. country.
Fixed it for ya.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 11, 2021, 01:36:07 PM
Headed to Senate....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/03/11/house-passes-Democrat-bill-criminalizing-private-gun-sales/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 02:22:18 PM
Headed to Senate....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/03/11/house-passes-Democrat-bill-criminalizing-private-gun-sales/

Does anyone know which Rs voted for it? I saw five of them co-sponsored it but didn't see all the names.

Additionally, the house passed HR1446, which allows indefinite delay of background checks, versus 72 hours.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-passes-gun-control-bill-expanding-background-checks-on-firearm-sales_3729592.html

EDIT: Just found the seven Rs:

Vern Buchanan (FL)
Brian Fitzpatrick (PA)
Maria Salazar (FL)
Andrew Garbarino (NY)
Chris Smith (NJ)
Fred Upton (MI)
Carlos Gimenez (FL)
Adam Kinzinger (IL)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 03:56:55 PM
Quote
Steve Scalise
@SteveScalise
·
4h
🚨 BREAKING → House Democrats just REJECTED an amendment that would have required ICE to be notified if an illegal immigrant tries to buy a gun.

But they’re fine taking away the gun rights of law-abiding American citizens.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 11, 2021, 07:11:23 PM

The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/the-dark-side-of-the-universal-background-check-bill-hr8/#axzz6oL7DDYDO


This is very interesting.  My thoughts going in were that, if confronted about how the owner obtained the firearm, the owner could simply end-around the law by simply claiming to have had the firearm for years.  Absent it being something recently manufactured, there would be no way for law enforcement to prove it was obtained after the law went into effect.  This seems to indicate that this is an intentional omission in the law to allow the legislature to "fix the mistake" by creating a national registry requiring owners to give the feds of everything owned so it can be used to make sure all current transfers are done with background checks.

Right now, most of my guns were obtained through private transfers or inheritance.  This goes into effect, I have to choose to give Uncle Sam a list or become a criminal...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 11, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
Idaho legislators are currently looking at pushing through what is basically "FU fed.gov" legislation regarding unconstitutional laws, making them "null and void". The local news I've read on this all cites gun control as one of the main reasons. I hope it passes, though I don't know how well it will stand up to the feds or courts.

https://apnews.com/article/legislation-idaho-courts-62397ad7b8109e5b0a9a6c16adef1592
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 07:43:17 AM
Assault Weapons Ban of 2021 Submitted in the House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCGgMEPztA

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/a/7/a77ca0d0-07b0-4cc1-8ce5-271997fe1947/063DD11B94F08E05113DFC5F9841B0C4.assault-weapons-ban-of-2021.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 08:07:36 AM
Regarding "large capacity" magazines (quote snipped for brevity):

Quote
‘(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—


‘(C) the possession, by an individual who is re13 tired in good standing from service with a law en14 forcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited
15 from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity am16 munition feeding device—
17 ‘‘(i) sold or transferred to the individual by
18 the agency upon such retirement; or
19 ‘‘(ii) that the individual purchased, or oth20 erwise obtained, for official use before such re21 tirement;


So retired cops get to have standard capacity mags?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 08:26:14 AM
Regarding "large capacity" magazines (quote snipped for brevity):

So retired cops get to have standard capacity mags?

Using dem logic since I couldn't get into law enforcement due to a preexisting condition I qualify   
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on March 12, 2021, 09:42:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDWuCCN9Vzg

 [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 12, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
‘(w)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to import,
sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting
interstate or foreign commerce, a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
the Assault Weapons Ban of 2021.

So does that mean anyone possessing a hi capacity Mag after passage (I hope not) of this bill is a criminal?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on March 12, 2021, 03:06:49 PM
‘(w)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to import,
sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting
interstate or foreign commerce, a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
the Assault Weapons Ban of 2021.

So does that mean anyone possessing a hi capacity Mag after passage (I hope not) of this bill is a criminal?
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 12, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.


I got in a fight with one of the moderators on another forum by saying that not having a grandfather clause would amount to a 5th Amendment "taking" and be unconstitutional.  (since I'm not a lawyer, I am not entitled to have a legal opinion unless I can cite actual legal cases)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 12, 2021, 03:14:14 PM
They're throwing in grandfather clauses in as a bone. Later when the murder rate doesn't change (shock) they'll use that as excuse to repeal the grandfather clauses.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
205 listed weapons in Feinstein's ban, and that's if you don't count, "and similar to".

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ban-on-205-different-assault-weapons-introduced-by-sen-feinstein_3730994.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on March 12, 2021, 06:54:49 PM
I think we need to mount a wood chipper to the helicopter we throw them out of. Little pieces are better fertilizer.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 12, 2021, 07:04:24 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 12, 2021, 07:30:50 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.

I think this will have a tough time in the senate. There are enough blue senators that know that this will end their career. Manchin for one. Any squishy R that votes for is likewise done.

That said, I don't need any mags. But I became a gun nut during the ban years and because of the ban. And I remember paying $75 or more for Glock mags. And I have a lot of Glock mags now. Just ordered 35 more magpuls. I have 100 AR mags and but one AR so I will chill there and my M-14 count is 10 because they don't wear out and if you need to carry more than 10 you have bigger problems than small arms can solve.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 12, 2021, 08:13:05 PM
AR mag prices seem to have not changed at all. Everywhere I go, they are pre-panic price and plentiful. I must have around 30 AR mags at this point and am not sure what I would do with more, but then I said the same thing about my ammo supply last year. :)

Other mags I have priced are going for higher than normal prices, but I think I'm pretty set.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on March 12, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Tempting to do some buying.  I feel like I'm good on mags, honestly.  That said, I always want more of something once it becomes restricted.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on March 12, 2021, 08:48:02 PM
My advice, buy all the mags you can this week.  Prices will start climbing tomorrow, because this will pass.

DSG has 10 pack Magpul G2 mags for $98.  Came out to $105 shipped for me.  $10.50 per Mag is pretty damn good.

https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on March 13, 2021, 12:35:23 AM
I think this will have a tough time in the senate. There are enough blue senators that know that this will end their career. Manchin for one. Any squishy R that votes for is likewise done.

This no longer applies since the Dems have taken complete control of the federal election apparatus.  They know they are safe in their seats should they choose to run in the next election.

My predictions:  Every Democrat, the lone not-so-independent socialist, and several Republicans will vote in favor of this bill.  Number 46 will sign it into law.
When the new law eventually makes its way to the Supreme Court, the Court will refuse to take the case, thereby allowing the law to stand.  That seems to be the new modus operandi of the compromised SCOTUS.  Refusing to take a case gives them the political cover they need to not rule on a constitutionally abhorrent law.
I find it curious that the Democrats have gone mostly silent recently about packing the SCOTUS.  They were very vocal about that prior to and just after the election.
I also am surprised that the Democrats wrote grandfather clauses into the new AWB, and didn't go for outright bans on ownership and "buybacks" (read: confiscation).  That was their clearly declared intent prior to Nov. 3.  They have the political power to do both, and the SCOTUS will back them.  Why they chose to not go whole hog is very odd in my view.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on March 13, 2021, 12:37:28 PM
This no longer applies since the Dems have taken complete control of the federal election apparatus.  They know they are safe in their seats should they choose to run in the next election.

My predictions:  Every Democrat, the lone not-so-independent socialist, and several Republicans will vote in favor of this bill.  Number 46 will sign it into law.
When the new law eventually makes its way to the Supreme Court, the Court will refuse to take the case, thereby allowing the law to stand.  That seems to be the new modus operandi of the compromised SCOTUS.  Refusing to take a case gives them the political cover they need to not rule on a constitutionally abhorrent law.
I find it curious that the Democrats have gone mostly silent recently about packing the SCOTUS.  They were very vocal about that prior to and just after the election.
I also am surprised that the Democrats wrote grandfather clauses into the new AWB, and didn't go for outright bans on ownership and "buybacks" (read: confiscation).  That was their clearly declared intent prior to Nov. 3.  They have the political power to do both, and the SCOTUS will back them.  Why they chose to not go whole hog is very odd in my view.

It helps keep gun owners from getting too upset, while still pushing forward with their objectives.

Just like how over time, the NFA has religated MGs to expensive, niche items; so they would prefer with semiautos.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on March 13, 2021, 01:08:13 PM
AR mag prices seem to have not changed at all. Everywhere I go, they are pre-panic price and plentiful. I must have around 30 AR mags at this point and am not sure what I would do with more, but then I said the same thing about my ammo supply last year. :)

Other mags I have priced are going for higher than normal prices, but I think I'm pretty set.

The only mags I would really like more of is some 15 or 20 rounders for my Armalite AR10 that uses the modified M14 mags but they are rare as hen's teeth. Other than that I am set, more than set actually. Although I may splurge on a 60 round Surefire mag for my AR pattern rifles just because I can. I already have an older 100 round drum from back when the Clinton ban expired.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on March 13, 2021, 01:12:41 PM
I'd like some more Ruger Mini-14 steel magazines; I like the 20 rounders.  I got some aftermarket steel mags from CDNN a few years ago that work really well, but they don't seem to sell them anymore.  A few 10's would actually be handy too but I don't know if they make those. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 13, 2021, 01:17:23 PM
The only mags I would really like more of is some 15 or 20 rounders for my Armalite AR10 that uses the modified M14 mags but they are rare as hen's teeth.

bob

Stocked up on 20 & 25 rounders before Armalite started switching over to the SR-25 pattern mag
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JN01 on March 13, 2021, 11:28:24 PM
Looks like a grandfather clause to me.

It's called a loophole.  Not to worry, they will take care of that in the near future.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on March 14, 2021, 12:11:06 AM

I got in a fight with one of the moderators on another forum by saying that not having a grandfather clause would amount to a 5th Amendment "taking" and be unconstitutional.  (since I'm not a lawyer, I am not entitled to have a legal opinion unless I can cite actual legal cases)
Hmmm . . . there's a "legal" moderator on another shooting forum that has a habit of removing posts when he sees himself losing a debate . . . 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 24, 2021, 09:36:12 AM
Manchin shockingly is standing his ground

Despite Biden’s Plea, Joe Manchin Opposes the Two Background Check Bills Passed by the House
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/despite-bidens-plea-joe-manchin-opposes-the-two-background-check-bills-passed-by-the-house/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 24, 2021, 09:41:52 AM
Not content with violating the Second Amendment, the Biden administration wants to destroy the Fourth as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2021/03/23/biden-administration-urges-supreme-court-to-let-cops-enter-homes-and-seize-guns-without-a-warrant
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 24, 2021, 11:18:11 AM
I just saw an interview in the local news with an Idaho state rep regarding a newly introduced state bill "The Small Arms Protection Act". It was just introduced a couple of weeks ago and she said it's looking good, except that it needs to pass before Biden / Congress do any new antigun stuff themselves. I don't understand the legal reasons, but it would apparently not have as many teeth regarding already existing Federal gun control laws versus laws enacted after it is put in place.

I hope it passes. It wouldn't help with out of state travel, but in-state is better than nothing. We are currently a "2nd Amendment Sanctuary State", but of course that is more of a statement than anything else.

 https://legiscan.com/ID/bill/H0300/2021
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 24, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
Not content with violating the Second Amendment, the Biden administration wants to destroy the Fourth as well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2021/03/23/biden-administration-urges-supreme-court-to-let-cops-enter-homes-and-seize-guns-without-a-warrant

(https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1651761)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Blakenzy on March 24, 2021, 08:07:26 PM
We are well into tyranny and no one seems to be doing much about it but I think that a strong move on firearms might be the watershed moment for many people holding back. What ever they do to disarm Citizens is going to have to be a half measure. They can't just jump, they still have to creep. Unless they intend to cause a ruckus of course. However given the pace of events, I don't think they have the patience to wait years for their schemes, it's more like months.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 25, 2021, 12:22:08 AM
However given the pace of events, I don't think they have the patience to wait years for their schemes, it's more like months.

My guess is that when Harris replaces Biden the train is going to accelerate into hyperdrive.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Blakenzy on March 25, 2021, 04:49:42 AM
Edit: repeated link to warrantless seizure story
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 07:40:56 AM
Talk of Republican compromise. Not unexpected. It's sounding like there may not be votes for a magazine or "assault rifle" ban, but I'm going to go ahead and lay money on something background check related passing in the next couple of months.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-gun-control-senate-house
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 25, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
When in doubt try guilt tripping them

Quote
“When Congress doesn’t act, it sends an unintentional but very real sign of endorsement to these would-be killers. It looks like we’re approving the way in which they are managing their grievances, because we don’t do anything year after year.”

By extension IMHO he's in effect also saying all gun owners endorse "these would be killers"

Murphy: By Failing to Pass Gun Control, Congress Has Become Complicit in Mass Shootings
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/murphy-by-failing-to-pass-gun-control-congress-has-become-complicit-in-mass-shootings/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on March 25, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
At a minimum, I predict universal background checks, possibly also waiting periods and magazine size restrictions.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 25, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
At a minimum, I predict universal background checks, possibly also waiting periods and magazine size restrictions.

Agreed.  But I'm also predicting a ban on imports by E.O., and I think that will be imported guns, parts, and ammo.  Also see the law shielding firearms companies in serious danger, especially if they kill the filibuster.  I'm hearing from sources at work that this is a primary goal, as it will allow gun and ammo companies to be sued out of existence.  Complete gun control without need for Congress to pass a single ban.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 12:46:58 PM
I am predicting Congress will not pass anything but Biden will try to do it with EO's including including the import ban.  IMO, that will lead to some interesting times. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 12:47:09 PM
My bet was on what Congress does. I agree that if Biden can do EOs, he'll do any he can.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on March 25, 2021, 12:54:31 PM
Agreed.  But I'm also predicting a ban on imports by E.O., and I think that will be imported guns, parts, and ammo.  Also see the law shielding firearms companies in serious danger, especially if they kill the filibuster.  I'm hearing from sources at work that this is a primary goal, as it will allow gun and ammo companies to be sued out of existence.  Complete gun control without need for Congress to pass a single ban.

Sort of like the 1st amendment right to free speech is being killed by big tech.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 02:48:00 PM
I am listening to Steven Crowder's live coverage of Biden's press conference today.  Biden was asked about the recent shootings, gun control, and the liability protection act he promised to remove.  Biden immediate started talking about infrastructure and clean water.  There was no follow up question.  Either he lost his place and started talking about other stuff or he is trying to avoid the issue.  If he is avoiding the issue, that is a good thing for us.  Hard to say with Biden.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 02:58:15 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/03/25/this-is-nuts-hunter-bidens-then-girlfriend-his-brothers-widow-threw-his-gun-in-a-dumpster-and-then-the-story-gets-even-weirder/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 25, 2021, 07:59:47 PM
This seems like potentially good news:

Quote
President Joe Biden, responding to a question on Thursday on when to push gun control measures, promised a series of actions to regulate the sale of firearms but said his next agenda item pertains to U.S. infrastructure.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-gun-control-will-be-a-matter-of-timing_3749619.html

From the rest of the article, it sounded almost like he was brushing off the gun control question. The more things that get "prioritized" ahead of gun control, the better, IMO.

I won't get my hopes up, but I found it interesting that he actually said in a press conference that he wants to do infrastructure first, especially while the libs and MSM are on the gun control warpath.

I have to wonder if dem strategists are actually thinking about what happens in mid-terms after gun control legislation is passed?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 25, 2021, 08:20:26 PM
https://tinyurl.com/yp4vjhu

Quote
Secret Service Intervened In Hunter Biden Gun Incident; Hunter May Have Lied On Background Check Form, Report Says

I doubt anything will ever come of this, but it fits with what we know of the Biden's. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 26, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
And I guess I was wrong again. No date given, but the language sounds like, "soon". Who knows what it will be. I'll bet an import ban.

Quote
President Joe Biden will sign executive orders on gun control in the near future, confirmed White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Friday.

When asked about the prospect of taking executive action, Psaki responded with, “Yes.”

“I can’t give you an exact time frame, in part, because they have to go through a review process, which is something that we do from here,” Psaki told reporters at the White House.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-house-confirms-biden-will-sign-executive-order-on-gun-control_3751243.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on March 28, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
A Dem insider I know claims Biden is going to ban by EO the importation of all firearms, firearm parts of any kind, and all ammunition.  My thought:  I know at one point a lot of gun companies were importing parts for assembly in US factories, including SIG and Glock.  It would be almost funny if DOD and .gov couldn't get new firearms because of this.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on March 28, 2021, 12:56:01 PM
A Dem insider I know claims Biden is going to ban by EO the importation of all firearms, firearm parts of any kind, and all ammunition.  My thought:  I know at one point a lot of gun companies were importing parts for assembly in US factories, including SIG and Glock.  It would be almost funny if DOD and .gov couldn't get new firearms because of this.

Any Us firearm company that can survive needs to pull a Ronny Barrett. Refuse to sell to them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 28, 2021, 01:12:50 PM
Any Us firearm company that can survive needs to pull a Ronny Barrett. Refuse to sell to them.

Sadly, only the smaller guys ever seem to have the guts (or lack of NYC shareholders) to do it. Barrett was a great example of someone with a niche product that gov entities needed (or really wanted). If someone like Sig said "no" to the gov, someone like Glock would swoop right in.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on March 28, 2021, 06:43:31 PM
Sadly, only the smaller guys ever seem to have the guts (or lack of NYC shareholders) to do it. Barrett was a great example of someone with a niche product that gov entities needed (or really wanted). If someone like Sig said "no" to the gov, someone like Glock would swoop right in.

To sell guns to the US government, those guns must be made in the US.  Glock builds guns in the US with some parts imported from Austria. 

Also, government contracts take a long time to bid, finance, accept, supply, distribute, etc.  If the military said today they are changing to Glocks, it would still take 10 years to make it happen.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 28, 2021, 07:03:11 PM
To sell guns to the US government, those guns must be made in the US.  Glock builds guns in the US with some parts imported from Austria. 

Also, government contracts take a long time to bid, finance, accept, supply, distribute, etc.  If the military said today they are changing to Glocks, it would still take 10 years to make it happen.

I was more talking about local/state. I think Barrett stopped selling to cops.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: just Warren on March 28, 2021, 07:25:11 PM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?

Would we really be that bad off? It could work out for us politically.

That is a lot more Americans will be employed directly and indirectly by the firearms industry making that a larger constituency of people who would be opposed to more gun control in general.

And encouraging home manufacturing of anything makes this country less dependent on outsiders and that's always a good thing. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 28, 2021, 07:30:35 PM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?


Repealing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which is a dem wet dream, will allow dem/leftest lawyers to then burn US manufactures to the ground in short order. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on March 28, 2021, 09:58:40 PM
How far will he go? There are many bullet mold manufacturers and other reloading parts made overseas. There has already been customs problems for some of them since the election.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 29, 2021, 12:51:55 AM
What if Joe EOs a complete ban on foreign guns, parts, and ammo and then US manufacturers totally fill the resultant product gap?

Would we really be that bad off? It could work out for us politically.


In terms of modern, semi-auto firearms I think we'd be fine. However, a total import ban would eliminate Uberti and Pietta, who make most of the cowboy six-gun clones -- including not only their own brands but also Cimmaron, Taylor's, and I think a couple of others. IIt would also put VTI Gun Parts out of business.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on March 29, 2021, 01:24:52 PM
In terms of modern, semi-auto firearms I think we'd be fine. However, a total import ban would eliminate Uberti and Pietta, who make most of the cowboy six-gun clones -- including not only their own brands but also Cimmaron, Taylor's, and I think a couple of others. IIt would also put VTI Gun Parts out of business.
  ----Which is why I would be a little suspicious of this.  I don't think  President Ponysoldier gives a tinker's  BLEEP about repro cap & ball and black powder guns. 

I have no doubt he'll issue a EO  banning importation of some guns and related stuff.
Right now,  I'm going to wait and see.   
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 29, 2021, 02:23:28 PM
Semi-auto seems to be the bad term these days so I can see an import ban being specific to semi-auto guns. 

Another reason to have the 45/70 lever action on call.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on March 29, 2021, 05:30:58 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ljqf0t7dhyp61.png)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 30, 2021, 08:12:08 AM
While I applaud people stepping up for gun rights, I sure wish this would be occurring in a post-Wayne NRA. He's probably secure in his position for the near future.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/nra-memberships-jump-amid-pandemic-push-for-stricter-gun-control_3755084.html

Quote
The National Rifle Association (NRA) has seen a jump in new members in recent months, with 150,000 signups in 2021 alone so far.

On average, the gun rights group is seeing about 1,000 new members a day, Amy Hunter, the NRA’s director of media relations, told The Epoch Times.

The surge is attributed in part to the gun restrictions being discussed by Democrats in Congress and President Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on March 30, 2021, 11:00:11 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on March 30, 2021, 11:04:40 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them.

I knew some Rs would fold on that. Some because they are really Ds, and some because they seem to only be listening to the "headlines" vs understanding both the current system and what the antis want to impose. The "common sense" excuse.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on March 30, 2021, 11:10:43 AM
I heard yesterday that universal background checks could pass filibuster.  Apparently some R senators are getting soft on it.  I heard John Cornyn of Texas is one of them.

Because we need to do more of what we already know doesn't work to appease the liberal gods.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 01, 2021, 09:30:24 AM
Add another "boogeyman" to the growing list "Concealable Assault Weapons"

109 Members of Congress Beg Biden To Add "Concealable Assault Weapons" To NFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBl7tcMxG4A

The letter
https://neguse.house.gov/imo/media/doc/2021_03_31%20GVPTF%20Ltr%20re%20Concealable%20Assault%20Weapons%20(signed).pdf?fbclid=IwAR1jUwq6MLR76ACNZumjPbbQbgpmPXiTZiq2mlVawxNc8KzRIhDdjFaPSsg

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 02, 2021, 09:17:42 AM
This is probably just moron dem politicians spouting off, but as far as I know, Biden can't EO a ban on AR pistols (other than import related), can he?

Quote
A group of House Democrats has asked President Joe Biden to take executive action on “concealable assault-style firearms,” citing two mass shootings in Atlanta and Boulder, Colorado, last month.

“Concealable assault-style firearms that fire rifle rounds pose an unreasonable threat to our communities and should be fully regulated under the National Firearms Act consistent with the intent and history of the law. The recent tragedy in Boulder, Colorado where 10 people including a police officer were killed is one in a string of deadly incidents involving this style of weapon,” Reps. Mike Thompson (D-Calif.), Joe Neguse (D-Colo.), Val Demings (D-Fla.), and Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.) said in a letter to Biden.

They said that because alleged Boulder gunman Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa used a semi-automatic Ruger AR-556 pistol, which is a smaller variant of an AR-15-style rifle, either Congress or Biden should take action.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-democrats-ask-biden-to-take-executive-action-on-concealable-assault-style-firearms_3758815.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on April 02, 2021, 09:35:13 AM
This is probably just moron dem politicians spouting off, but as far as I know, Biden can't EO a ban on AR pistols (other than import related), can he?

https://www.theepochtimes.com/house-democrats-ask-biden-to-take-executive-action-on-concealable-assault-style-firearms_3758815.html
Trump got the ATF to call bump stocks machine guns despite them not meeting the statutory definition.  Why couldn't Biden do something similar?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 02, 2021, 09:39:55 AM
Trump got the ATF to call bump stocks machine guns despite them not meeting the statutory definition.  Why couldn't Biden do something similar?

That's a good example. I simply don't myself know how far EOs can be stretched.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 02, 2021, 07:16:08 PM
In theory, an Executive Order can only direct in some way the implementation of an existing law or regulation. It can't create new laws or new regulations.

That's "in theory."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on April 02, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
I've heard that the ATF might try to classify AR pistols as AOW, but at this point it's all speculation.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 07, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
BOHICA ...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-executive-actions-gun-control

Looks like we'll find out tomorrow just how bad it's going to be.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
My prediction
Braces
"Ghost"/80% guns/lowers
Imported "assault" guns and maybe ammo
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 04:03:41 PM
80% firearms would be a hard one.  At some point, someone will have to decide when a block of aluminum becomes a receiver. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 04:14:06 PM
They are quoting the gun experts at politico, so certainly take it with a grain of salt:

Quote
According to a report from Politico, Biden’s order may center on so-called “ghost guns,” which would require individuals to undergo background checks when they purchase kits to build a gun. It’s unclear if this would apply to guns that are 3-D printed. The Epoch Times has contacted the White House for comment.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-confirms-hell-make-announcement-on-gun-control-this-week_3766379.html

I wonder if they will try to umbrella "kit" to mean the "everything but the stripped lower" kits that PSA and others sell? Or maybe even uppers?

The article also mentioned eliminating what the cool antigun  kids are calling the "charleston loophole" where you get your gun if the NICS takes more than 72 hours.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on April 07, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
80% firearms would be a hard one.  At some point, someone will have to decide when a block of aluminum becomes a receiver. 

Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 07, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
SCOTUS
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 05:00:35 PM
They don't want to wake up with a horse's head in their bed.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 05:01:15 PM
Isn't there some substantive legal precedent for the 80% threshold? If so, it's possible it would trigger a SCOTUS intervention.

Brad
I assumed it was either a court ruling or an ATF regulation.  Never heard of a law saying that.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
I am betting on import limits/bans. 

On the domestic side whatever they do will be challenged in court so I expect it to be something they think they can either win or drag out in court.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Kingcreek on April 07, 2021, 05:03:09 PM
So now I need a ghost gun,
a high capacity assault ghost gun with a brace.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on April 07, 2021, 05:16:14 PM
So now I need a ghost gun,
a high capacity assault ghost gun with a brace.

Don't forget to buy some imported ammo for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 05:27:26 PM
Quote
Dana Loesch
@DLoesch
·
2h
Does it include bringing charges against members of his family for stealing a handgun and falsifying a 4473?
Quote Tweet
Breaking911
@Breaking911
 · 4h
BREAKING: President Biden to unveil executive action on gun control Thursday - Politico

‘Does it include…’? Dana Loesch has a GREAT question about Biden’s upcoming gun control EOs
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/04/07/does-it-include-dana-loesch-has-a-great-question-about-bidens-upcoming-gun-control-eos/

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 07, 2021, 06:08:46 PM
There better be a lawsready to go and impeachment papers since he is breaking his oath of office.

But in not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: robear on April 07, 2021, 06:09:55 PM
I have always wanted to build an AR.   Seems like now is a good time to at least get my 'ghost gun' 80% lower. >:D
So, I just ordered a 80% lower from 80percentarms.com.    Thanks for the motivation Joe! [ar15]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Quote
Zeke Miller
@ZekeJMiller
WASHINGTON (AP) — AP sources: Biden to nominate former special agent, gun control advocate David Chipman as ATF director.

Quote
In his Twitter bio, David Chipman describes himself thusly: “ATF Special Agent (retired), Gun Violence Prevention Advocate @GiffordsCourage, Michigander in Virginia and Proud 97%er.”

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 06:52:04 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Biden to Nominate Giffords Gun Control Group Policy Advisor as ATF Director
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-to-nominate-giffords-gun-control-group-advisor-as-atf-director/

If you thought the ATF was a PITA now......
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 07:00:05 PM
If anyone was waiting on a tax stamp I would be willing to bet there's suddenly going to be some extra delays.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 07:30:03 PM
If anyone was waiting on a tax stamp I would be willing to bet there's suddenly going to be some extra delays.

Yeah, seeing this guy nominated, my first thought was to get another can in the pipeline, but then I wondered if it would even go through. It would suck to pay $800 for a can, then suddenly have tax stamps suspended or something and be out the dough.

Maybe this guy will be too much of a hot potato to make it through the confirmation hearings. At least a couple of D senators might be afraid of getting voted out if they confirm him.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 07:41:50 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

Quote
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey signed legislation on April 6 that would prohibit police and sheriffs in the state from enforcing new federal gun laws that may violate the Constitution’s Second Amendment.

Proponents of the bill have argued that it would ensure that the rights of gun owners are protected from what they have described as potential overreach by the federal government, while critics say the law will undermine cooperation between Arizona law enforcement and federal officials.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 07, 2021, 07:46:54 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq

Waiting on something like that here in Ky. %$@! Dem gov would probably veto it but the Rs in the senate have enough votes to override.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on April 07, 2021, 08:04:05 PM
The Arizona Governor just signed a bill to preempt any new fed gun laws that the state deems unconstitutional. Good for him.

The same was supposed to happen here in Idaho, but it appears the legislation is held up. Maybe Biden's announcement will get them off their asses. I recall reading a quote in the local paper from a legislator here that it is vital to get this kind of legislation through BEFORE any new fed laws ore EOs are issued as it is apparently legally problematic to do the prohibition thing to laws already on the books.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq (https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/arizona-governor-signs-bill-to-defy-any-new-federal-gun-control-laws_3766323.html?&utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-07-3&mktids=c454881760320bf150698487c6406567&est=51a19JwBha8X1gEdGbAbhOu0Bqaua1%2B3oPALx%2Fr6uhlTtUDgqjrU9%2Fkqbxo2hfMbgQvQsGtq)


I see those laws as a little bit dangerous; all they do is say police and sheriffs will turn a blind eye to federal gun laws and prohibits them from assisting the feds.  It offers no protection against the feds arresting and prosecuting you on their own, but it might lead citizens to think they had protection.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 07, 2021, 08:19:57 PM
And 46 will be nominating a gun control advocate as the new ATF Director:

Apparently the dude locked his twitter account ahead of time so people can't find out how much of a totalitarian commie he is.

Used to run Giffords. he worries me more than the possibility of some EOs.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 09:21:49 PM

I see those laws as a little bit dangerous; all they do is say police and sheriffs will turn a blind eye to federal gun laws and prohibits them from assisting the feds.  It offers no protection against the feds arresting and prosecuting you on their own, but it might lead citizens to think they had protection.
I like it since it might give pause to some of the big city police chiefs who would be tempted to go crazy with gun control enforcement. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 07, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
Some stuff seems to be leaking. "Ghost guns" and also...

Quote
The Justice Department will be given 60 days to issue a separate rule on stabilizing braces, which can turn a pistol into a more accurate weapon that fires like a rifle. Sixty days will also be provided for the DOJ to develop model "red flag" legislation that would allow friends and family members to identify an individual as a potential danger, thereby temporarily preventing the person from accessing a firearm.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-actions-gun-violence
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 07, 2021, 09:45:00 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-initial-actions-to-address-the-gun-violence-public-health-epidemic/

These are the headers of the main paragraphs.
Quote
The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.”
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act.
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will publish model “red flag” legislation for states.
The Administration is investing in evidence-based community violence interventions.
The Justice Department will issue an annual report on firearms trafficking.
The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 07, 2021, 11:09:47 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/07/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-initial-actions-to-address-the-gun-violence-public-health-epidemic/

These are the headers of the main paragraphs.

If they go NFA with the braces and allow the free issuance of Tax Stamps as floated a while back I will just have to get a couple of extras for SBRing my spare lowers. ;)

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 08, 2021, 12:22:50 AM
Ordered two 80% AR-9 glock mag lowers just for spite. I have the metal for my 0% standard lower.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on April 08, 2021, 08:13:41 AM
Great, a policy director for an anti-gun group to be the head of ATF...Can't imagine what he's gonna do... ;/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 08:15:49 AM
Great, a policy director for an anti-gun group to be the head of ATF...Can't imagine what he's gonna do... ;/

But he owns a gun and has a carry permit!!!!!!!

Quote
In an op-ed he penned in The Roanoke Times last year, Chipman described himself as a "proud gun owner" who has sometimes been "mischaracterized as a gun grabber." Chipman noted that he supports gun safety regulations that would "save lives" but wouldn’t take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

"I am a proud and responsible gun owner, as are millions of Virginians," Chipman wrote. "I am also permitted to carry a concealed handgun. I am not afraid of lawmakers in Richmond passing laws to make it harder for criminals to get guns. In fact, I’m part of the majority who demand it."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-david-chipman-atf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 08, 2021, 08:19:55 AM
Ordered two 80% AR-9 glock mag lowers just for spite. I have the metal for my 0% standard lower.

Which vendor?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 08, 2021, 08:36:12 AM
But he owns a gun and has a carry permit!!!!!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-david-chipman-atf

There are two classes, peasants where everyone is equal and elites who are more equal. Only the elites can be trusted with guns, you're not an elite.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 08:39:31 AM
I found this link to a reddit Q&A discussion Chipman held. His answers here tell a lot about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/d285va/i_am_david_chipman_giffords_courage_to_fight_gun/

Example:

Quote
Hi David you made an appearance on CBS news and seemed to have made several conflicting or outright false statements.

For example at 4:40 in the clip below you state that its a

it's a myth that silencers can be used in lieu of hearing protection"

and then in your next statement

silencers are particularly deadly because they cause confusion in shootings and make it hard to recognize gun fire.

My question is: How is it something can be so loud that it still requires hearing protection, but quiet enough that it makes it hard to recognize gun fire?

In case you need a refresher the clip can be viewed at

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/mass-shooting-of-12-in-virginia-beach-reignites-debate-about-silencers/


72

Share
Report
Save
User avatar
level 2
David_Chipman
1 year ago
I'll let this gun violence survivor speak for themselves.

"When we heard the first shots, it sounded like a nail gun going off."

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/02/728986386/virginia-beach-shooting-survivor-says-victim-laid-down-his-life-to-save-colleagu

He also really hammers on AR pistols in this discussion.

Edit again. One more. You really have to read through that link. Holy moly.

Quote
1 year ago
Hi David. Should gun manufacturers be held accountable for things done by other people with the guns they sell?


17

Share
Report
Save
User avatar
level 2
David_Chipman
1 year ago
Of course. Just like any other industry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on April 08, 2021, 11:51:25 AM
Biden moves on "Gun Control" (https://mail.google.com/mail/u/2/h/1g64661e1uspn/?&th=178b20d3e830bfec&v=c)

Large Numbers of NICS Checks (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-conducted-4-691-000-154631875.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cub2tzaG9vdGVycy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALyeZJ1WYywkfNG4YKLf_CzH1GBLAEAvRVSUF6HkOWEQyvlI0-1YSG8AiU5n2_UlgTjs6Uuu-yB46GOgSLv-_PHgf2UJJU1LYzxqSx2jKFzB7lsN2LsZH7hoTDkvm_4709_tOHIKw2nn7A8j042U2hi0sJYcViSwMEQiNlNclIbA)

I believe these gun sales are a direct result of the threat to our freedoms. I believe more and more people are beginning to see where all this government control is leading and realize that it may come to a shooting war. It will take a shooting war to preserve those freedoms and restore those that have been infringed or lost and no one wants to be caught unable to participate in such a righteous end to the dictatorial human debris that staff and despotically abuse the offices of our Constitution.

I think it is ironic that Biden and his ilk - authors all to the threat to our rights and freedoms - continue to press on with their agenda in light of the obvious rising of the people's ability to resist. We can only hope and pray that they reach the epiphany that they can't have us before those of us who revere our rights and freedoms and and revel in them must take a stand. I believe they misjudge our need and desire to remain a free people. I believe they have forgotten that their jobs working for the Constitution are primarily to secure our rights and freedoms or are simply ignoring their constitutional duties in order to turn us into subjects, slaves, and villein.

Woody

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 08, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
Biden moves on "Gun Control" (https://mail.google.com/mail/u/2/h/1g64661e1uspn/?&th=178b20d3e830bfec&v=c)

Large Numbers of NICS Checks (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-conducted-4-691-000-154631875.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cub2tzaG9vdGVycy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALyeZJ1WYywkfNG4YKLf_CzH1GBLAEAvRVSUF6HkOWEQyvlI0-1YSG8AiU5n2_UlgTjs6Uuu-yB46GOgSLv-_PHgf2UJJU1LYzxqSx2jKFzB7lsN2LsZH7hoTDkvm_4709_tOHIKw2nn7A8j042U2hi0sJYcViSwMEQiNlNclIbA)

I believe these gun sales are a direct result of the threat to our freedoms. I believe more and more people are beginning to see where all this government control is leading and realize that it may come to a shooting war. It will take a shooting war to preserve those freedoms and restore those that have been infringed or lost and no one wants to be caught unable to participate in such a righteous end to the dictatorial human debris that staff and despotically abuse the offices of our Constitution.

I think it is ironic that Biden and his ilk - authors all to the threat to our rights and freedoms - continue to press on with their agenda in light of the obvious rising of the people's ability to resist. We can only hope and pray that they reach the epiphany that they can't have us before those of us who revere our rights and freedoms and and revel in them must take a stand. I believe they misjudge our need and desire to remain a free people. I believe they have forgotten that their jobs working for the Constitution are primarily to secure our rights and freedoms or are simply ignoring their constitutional duties in order to turn us into subjects, slaves, and villein.

Woody

I would love to agree with you, but I can't.

Some people are buying guns because of the threat to our liberty, but I think most of the new buyers are of the mindset of, "I'd better buy one while I can."  At the first sign of new laws enacted or confiscation started, those new buyers will happily turn in their guns. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 08, 2021, 01:01:40 PM
If you can stomach it, Harris and Biden:

https://youtu.be/SXosHWozjeo

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-guns-remarks-executive-actions

EDIT: That video also made me breathe a sigh of relief that Merrick Garland did not make it onto the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 08, 2021, 01:27:24 PM
Which vendor?

80percentarms.com
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 08, 2021, 01:50:23 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 02:32:48 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

If they say it loud enough and long enough then people will believe it because that will be their basis for learning about the Constitution. It doesn't get taught in school anymore so what people learn is what they hear.

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 03:15:15 PM
I would love to agree with you, but I can't.

Some people are buying guns because of the threat to our liberty, but I think most of the new buyers are of the mindset of, "I'd better buy one while I can."  At the first sign of new laws enacted or confiscation started, those new buyers will happily turn in their guns.
So far, compliance rates with "turn'em in" laws in a few states has been incredible low. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 08, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
80% lowers doubled in price on some sites today.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 07:08:23 PM
80% lowers doubled in price on some sites today.

Well, isn't that a total surprise. Douchebags.  ;/

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on April 08, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

I'd say that puts him in violation of his oath of office,  and directly into conflict with my oath of enlistment.

 [popcorn]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Kingcreek on April 08, 2021, 08:26:42 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: BobR on April 08, 2021, 08:41:33 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.

We all know they do not look dangerous. Actually, there isn't any danger at all with a 80% lower.That is not the point as far as the current administration is, it is the IDEA that is dangerous. Many ideas have become dangerous, just look at the cancel culture!

bob
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 08, 2021, 09:04:51 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on April 08, 2021, 09:23:31 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind

Yeah, but ... Only dangerous to them.

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 09:43:46 PM
My wife and I were having dinner and had the radio news on. She asked me what a “ghost gun” was. I explained the 80% thing. She still didn’t get it, so I went to the basement and came back with one. She didn’t think it looked all that dangerous.
I need to get a block of aluminum and put a serial number on it. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 08, 2021, 09:45:33 PM
The fact that they don't have 100% control over them is what makes them dangerous in their mind
Except they have no control and tracing doesn't provide that.  How does tracing help with all the guns we hear about stolen from police vehicles?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 08, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
I need to get a block of aluminum and put a serial number on it. 

Or a shovel. Both things can be made into a rifle.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 08, 2021, 11:44:39 PM
Or a shovel. Both things can be made into a rifle.

Just keep it separate from your shoe laces.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on April 09, 2021, 12:24:25 AM
What do you think about Joes words? 

“ Their phony argument suggesting that these are Second Amendment rights at stake for what we’re talking about, but no amendment to the Constitution is absolute. ”

Essentially poli-legal drivel used by elitists to justify any intrusion into or assault upon our rights.  Sure, there are "limits" to rights as they were not ever supposed to justify harming others.  Freedom of speech doesn't protect libel or slander (usually civil law concerns) or incitement to riot as those are crimes and hurtful to others. The right is limited to the existential parameters of the said right.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"  is a pretty absolute statement.   It is "the right of the people,"  hence the right is connected to, and possessed by, the PEOPLE.  To "keep and bear arms" obviously means to "maintain ownership and possession of,"  and "to carry upon one's person"  arms (of the types that can be owned and carried).  "Shall not be infringed"  is the requirement no govt. may attack said right: the word "shall" is an "imperative," meaning it's not polite asking, it means "you WILL comply".  The government CANNOT  "infringe" the right.  I think many either do not really understand or deliberately ignore this word.  "Infringe" has two meanings in my dictionary; 1.) To intrude into.  2.) To diminish.  If one cannot intrude into, say, a room,  one may by definition not touch, alter, or  enter into the room to perform any function in said room.  If it must not be diminished,  then by definition it must remain whole. 

We have certain rational exclusions that have long been true;  for example, felons and excons are generally prohibited from owning or carrying arms as they have been adjudicated guilty in a court of law.  Children who are below "the age of understanding" cannot handle guns as they won't comprehend the consequences of misuse or might accidently hurt themselves or others.

But a adult who is in full possession of his rights, is not an excon,  must not have his rights under the Second Amendment be abbreviated, diminished, or altered.  In this sense,  it is absolute.

Not ALL gun laws will necessarily injure 2A rights.  A jurisdiction may decide that open carry is lawful, or that the weapon must be concealed.  But one, the other, or both, must be permitted.
A point of contention may be conceal carry permits  vs. "Constitutional Carry."  Must a citizen request "permission" to carry?   I suppose if the law is "must issue"  such a law can be saidacceptable,  but not "may issue,"  as capricious officials might deny a permit based on whim or political ideology.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 09, 2021, 08:18:31 AM
Wasn't sure if I should post this here, or in one of the "fake news" threads.

Holy hell. I thought I would click through the "local" news stations this morning to catch any "local" news on this and maybe get news on what Idaho is going to do to fight this. Instead, all three "local" stations pretty much mimicked the MSM when they covered Biden's speech from yesterday. Pretty much word for word, like from a script.

Which confirms that video that was posted here (I can't remember who or where on the forum). It was a Youtube compilation of 'local" stations across the country covering a national story. They all, word for word, said the same thing about the national story. Just confirming that "local" news is controlled by whatever national media corp owns the stations.

I will say that one of them had a separate story on Idaho reaction to it, and at least that was in line with state beliefs. Though it was like as 15 second segment, and the "local reporter" still managed to throw in that stupid Biden line that a brace makes and AR pistol "deadly accurate".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 09, 2021, 09:32:46 AM
Essentially poli-legal drivel used by elitists to justify any intrusion into or assault upon our rights.  Sure, there are "limits" to rights as they were not ever supposed to justify harming others.  Freedom of speech doesn't protect libel or slander (usually civil law concerns) or incitement to riot as those are crimes and hurtful to others. The right is limited to the existential parameters of the said right.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"  is a pretty absolute statement.   It is "the right of the people,"  hence the right is connected to, and possessed by, the PEOPLE.  To "keep and bear arms" obviously means to "maintain ownership and possession of,"  and "to carry upon one's person"  arms (of the types that can be owned and carried).  "Shall not be infringed"  is the requirement no govt. may attack said right: the word "shall" is an "imperative," meaning it's not polite asking, it means "you WILL comply".  The government CANNOT  "infringe" the right.  I think many either do not really understand or deliberately ignore this word.  "Infringe" has two meanings in my dictionary; 1.) To intrude into.  2.) To diminish.  If one cannot intrude into, say, a room,  one may by definition not touch, alter, or  enter into the room to perform any function in said room.  If it must not be diminished,  then by definition it must remain whole. 

We have certain rational exclusions that have long been true;  for example, felons and excons are generally prohibited from owning or carrying arms as they have been adjudicated guilty in a court of law.  Children who are below "the age of understanding" cannot handle guns as they won't comprehend the consequences of misuse or might accidently hurt themselves or others.

But a adult who is in full possession of his rights, is not an excon,  must not have his rights under the Second Amendment be abbreviated, diminished, or altered.  In this sense,  it is absolute.

Not ALL gun laws will necessarily injure 2A rights.  A jurisdiction may decide that open carry is lawful, or that the weapon must be concealed.  But one, the other, or both, must be permitted.
A point of contention may be conceal carry permits  vs. "Constitutional Carry."  Must a citizen request "permission" to carry?   I suppose if the law is "must issue"  such a law can be saidacceptable,  but not "may issue,"  as capricious officials might deny a permit based on whim or political ideology.
Well said. 

I think the felon/excon issue should be reconsidered.  I don't think the Govt should take away someone's rights permanently short of a death sentence.  If they have served their sentence and/or paid their debt, they should get their rights restored.  Whether that is after release from prison or completion of parole, I don't know.  I think it would trigger some changes in the way we do punishments if that were to happen. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 09, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Well said. 

I think the felon/excon issue should be reconsidered.  I don't think the Govt should take away someone's rights permanently short of a death sentence.  If they have served their sentence and/or paid their debt, they should get their rights restored.  Whether that is after release from prison or completion of parole, I don't know.  I think it would trigger some changes in the way we do punishments if that were to happen.

I agree with you on all points.

TommyGunn, your statement is dead-nuts accurate.  Every pro- and anti-gun person needs to hear that over and over and over.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 09, 2021, 06:51:53 PM
Fremont County (Colorado) Sheriff's Department responds:

https://krdo.com/news/2021/04/09/law-enforcement-react-to-biden-gun-control-measures/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2021, 09:31:03 AM
I have the feeling that this video will be making the rounds as part of the anti-ebr agenda. I can't tell if it's a brace or stock. Seems like a rare instance of using an AR in this type of situation.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-mexico-police-officer-fatally-shot-in-the-head-during-routine-stop-in-february-video-shows
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
As an aside, I am super surprised that standard capacity AR mags are still in good supply at fair prices. Magpul $12 mags are ubiquitous.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2021, 11:01:01 AM
As an aside, I am super surprised that standard capacity AR mags are still in good supply at fair prices. Magpul $12 mags are ubiquitous.

After the last couple of scares companies like Magpul flooded the market and people stuffed their closets full of them. I figured the market would get saturated eventually. Bet there's still warehouses full of them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on April 12, 2021, 01:17:54 PM
After the last couple of scares companies like Magpul flooded the market and people stuffed their closets full of them. I figured the market would get saturated eventually. Bet there's still warehouses full of them.
But . . . where's the ammunition to load the mags with?

It's not a matter of the ammo being snapped up as soon as it hits the dealer's shelves - by and large, it's never reaching most dealer's shelves in the first place.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 12, 2021, 01:44:04 PM
From what I've seen, the ammo situation is slowly improving, albeit at prices notably higher than pre-panic.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 12, 2021, 03:09:11 PM
From what I've seen, the ammo situation is slowly improving, albeit at prices notably higher than pre-panic.

Most sellers are still limiting to 1 box per here locally.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 15, 2021, 05:27:55 PM
 >10 mag ban bill submitted

Keep Americans Safe Act Submitted (Magazine Ban)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amnAbhjJAXw

https://www.menendez.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/keep_americans_safe_act.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on April 15, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Still waiting on my last order of 30 rd mags to come in...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on April 15, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
I’ve been buying a few here and there over the years...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 15, 2021, 10:26:46 PM
I wonder if this introduced legislation will start the yet unseen run/price increase on the 30 round AR mags?

I don't know that it will make it past the senate, but all it takes sometimes is the introduction to start the panic.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 15, 2021, 10:40:45 PM
Introducing a suppressor ban next:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/04/15/this-again-sen-dianne-feinstein-says-gun-suppressors-hide-the-sound-of-gunfire-from-potential-victims-and-law-enforcement/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 15, 2021, 11:00:53 PM
Introducing a suppressor ban next:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/04/15/this-again-sen-dianne-feinstein-says-gun-suppressors-hide-the-sound-of-gunfire-from-potential-victims-and-law-enforcement/


Yea well... come get it.  Oh, and good luck with that.  From Kansas state law:

Quote
Sec. 4. (a) A personal firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured commercially or privately in Kansas and that remains within the borders of Kansas is not subject to any federal law, treaty, federal regulation, or federal executive action, including any federal firearm or ammunition registration program, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured in the state of Kansas.

Quote
(b) "Firearms accessories" means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including, but not limited to, telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, collapsible or adjustable stocks and grips, pistol grips, thumbhole stocks, speedloaders, ammunition carriers and lights for target illumination.

Quote
Sec. 7. It is unlawful for any official, agent or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States to enforce or attempt to enforce any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States upon a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is owned or manufactured commercially or privately in the state of Kansas and that remains within the borders of Kansas. Violation of this section is a severity level 10 nonperson felony.

Should federal agents attempt to collect my suppressor, I will request that the Kansas state police enact a felony arrest of that person as they are committing a felony in the state of Kansas.

Kansas... we're a little prickly about our guns.  Stay off our lawn.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 17, 2021, 10:18:13 AM
Quote
BIDEN: "The folks who own guns, they support universal background checks. The majority of them think we should not be selling assault weapons. Who in God’s name needs a weapon that can hold 100 rounds, or 40 rounds, or 20 rounds." pic.twitter.com/iQIKno5MnV

— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) April 16, 2021

Or 10 rounds or 5 rounds. Amiright?

Two rounds in the shotgun is all anybody needs. Or a musket.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 17, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Or 10 rounds or 5 rounds. Amiright?

Two rounds in the shotgun is all anybody needs. Or a musket.

Guess I will look like Mel Gibson in the Patriot. 3-4 muskets, hatchet, hide a field piece in the barn or something. In lieu of that I have spent way too much getting all my 9mm AR parts enroute to my door. Can’t afford to build both powers out right now but have all the parts for one. Learning curve, first non 22 blowback gun ever. Need a dot sight now too. Argh...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on April 18, 2021, 12:10:17 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 12:20:17 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

One dead, one wounded. Not a mass shooting. And there was another shooting at the same mall a month ago, with only one person (a police officer) wounded.

Not a Democrat operation -- not enough body count.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 18, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

Maybe!  But, it's easy to deceive ourselves based on our own preconceptions.  If there was some data source that we could TRUST about mass shootings, we could draw some conclusions.  I don't trust the MSM, obviously.  I don't trust many official figures published by US government agencies.  But, we have a member that has been meticulous in analyzing and recording this information, and I trust him.

So, I put it to Hawkmoon: Based on the information you have collected, have mass shooting increased during the Biden presidency?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 01:51:18 AM

So, I put it to Hawkmoon: Based on the information you have collected, have mass shooting increased during the Biden presidency?

I have logged 11 events for 2021, all since Biden took office:

Trump took office in 2017. There was one incident on January 6, 2017 (so under Obama), and two in April. I show 22 incidents total for 2017, including the one on January 6.

For 2018 I have 34 incidents for the year. (18 through April)

For 2019 I have 31 incidents for the year. (10 through April)

For 2020 I have 10 incidents for the year. (2 through April)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 18, 2021, 08:08:35 AM
Our perceptions are distorted by the volume of stories about an event that occur and how long they cover an event, how the stories are framed and whether the politicians are making official statements and talking about the event.



Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 18, 2021, 08:38:10 AM
Just ran across this article and it's apropos to this discussion.
Quote
"The US has reported at least 45 mass shootings in the last month"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/16/us/mass-shootings-45-one-month/index.html

Trusting anything reported by the government media complex opens you up to manipulation.

All media, not just the "leftist" stuff.

From the extreme left to the hard core right and everything in between, it is increasingly difficult to separate true information from disinformation.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 18, 2021, 11:55:34 AM
Just ran across this article and it's apropos to this discussion.
Trusting anything reported by the government media complex opens you up to manipulation.

All media, not just the "leftist" stuff.

From the extreme left to the hard core right and everything in between, it is increasingly difficult to separate true information from disinformation.

I'm sure my database isn't complete. It began as a way to track school shootings. Then I expanded it to cover mass shootings in public places -- random attacks in places like malls, churches, and synagogues. However, one "official" definition just includes any incident in which three or more people are shot -- not necessarily in public places. So that leaves it open to domestic disputes, gang warfare, drug deals that go bad, etc. While those kinds of incidents aren't good, they aren't the kind of incident most people worry about when the media talks about "mass shootings," and so I generally don't count them.

The recent Lesslie shooting wasn't in a public place, it was at the doctor's home. But it also wasn't a domestic dispute, and two workers from an a/c company who happened to be at the site were also killed, so I decided to include it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 19, 2021, 08:48:54 AM
^I reject most everything CNN reports out of hand and assume that the opposite of their reporting is potentially closer to the truth.


Has anyone else seen the reporting on the big "ghost gun" bust in Spain? They are definitely setting the table to go after 3-D printing of firearms.

 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 19, 2021, 09:00:57 AM
^I reject most everything CNN reports out of hand and assume that the opposite of their reporting is potentially closer to the truth.


I do the same with them and other MSM outlets. I'm sure people on the other side do the same with Fox. This is the state of our news reporting and people's trust (regardless of politics) in it. It seems that the "5 Ws" of reporting are pretty much dead.

I am still happy with the Epoch Times, since their one big bias is their anti-CCP stance, and that's easily recognizable. Their other reporting seems to be closer to reporting facts without opinion than most.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 19, 2021, 09:42:58 AM
Maybe he'll recommend you buy two.
Yeah right

Quote
Myself as a public health person, I think you can’t run away from [gun violence]. I mean when you see people getting killed, I mean, in this last month it’s just been horrifying what’s happened. How can you say that’s not a public health issue?

— Dr. Anthony Fauci

Dr. Anthony Fauci Looks for the Next Big Public Health Battle: Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dr-anthony-fauci-looks-for-the-next-big-public-health-battle-guns/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 19, 2021, 11:47:28 AM
Maybe he'll recommend you buy two.
Yeah right

Dr. Anthony Fauci Looks for the Next Big Public Health Battle: Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dr-anthony-fauci-looks-for-the-next-big-public-health-battle-guns/
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: fifth_column on April 19, 2021, 11:52:59 AM
I doubt there are any more shootings now than there have ever been. There are just more of them being reported, advertised, and glorified (gore-ified is more accurate.)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 19, 2021, 11:53:49 AM
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies.

There's also one that says "Shall Not Be Infringed" that they're ignoring
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 19, 2021, 02:29:12 PM
What is old is new again.  There is still a law saying the CDC is not supposed to use their budget for gun control studies.

When did the democraps start caring about laws?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 19, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
When did the democraps start caring about laws?
They seem to care a great deal about everyone else following laws, just not themselves.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 20, 2021, 08:19:36 AM
I have to admit that I was unaware of this "oversight authority" nor that Trump removed it when he was in (another stealth move by Trump, and one that I guess many of his supporters were unaware of).

Between it being The Hill, and the dumbass politicians they interviewed, I'm guessing there is a ton of inaccurate firearms related language here. But "sniper rifles"? Again? We're back to banning Savage 110s? I guess the bright side might be that it will rile up some of the Fudds that are fine with EBR bans. I'll have to mention this to the old guy (a Fudd) that I hunt with.  :laugh:

 https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/549065-senate-democrats-call-on-biden-to-restore-oversight-of-semiautomatic-and


EDIT: Oh, as an entertaining (or aggravating) tangent, check out the comments to this article. Not just on guns, but the people who read The Hill believe crap like this (a commenter responding to someone stating that with groups like antifa, people want to be armed):

Quote
Show us Antifa. Show us their leaders, where they meet, what destruction they have caused. From what I can tell, they are just a right-wing bogeyman

How locked down and narrow do your news sources need to be to actually believe this?

EDIT 2: I guess this is foreign sales. Still, bringing in nebulous terms like "sniper rifle" will have domestic gun control connotations.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 20, 2021, 09:08:52 AM
I suspect next up will be an attempt to ban any ammo that can defeat police body armor.
 Of course most any center fire rifle round will do that but that wont be the focus..
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 20, 2021, 09:10:24 AM
I suspect next up will be an attempt to ban any ammo that can defeat police body armor.
 Of course most any center fire rifle round will do that but that wont be the focus..

Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ron on April 20, 2021, 09:17:03 AM
The left is as relentless as the "right" is capitulating.

Amazingly the gun issue is the one place where the right has been able to bend but not be broken, holding the line and pushing back.

Hold the line!




Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 20, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
The left is as relentless as the "right" is capitulating.

Amazingly the gun issue is the one place where the right has been able to bend but not be broken, holding the line and pushing back.

Hold the line!
The R's seem to do that more when they are in the minority. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 20, 2021, 08:22:07 PM
Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.

So did Clinton when he was President.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on April 20, 2021, 08:30:41 PM
Sen Kennedy proposed that very thing back in the 80s.

I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on April 20, 2021, 09:02:37 PM
I have to admit that I was unaware of this "oversight authority" nor that Trump removed it when he was in (another stealth move by Trump, and one that I guess many of his supporters were unaware of).

Between it being The Hill, and the dumbass politicians they interviewed, I'm guessing there is a ton of inaccurate firearms related language here. But "sniper rifles"? Again? We're back to banning Savage 110s? I guess the bright side might be that it will rile up some of the Fudds that are fine with EBR bans. I'll have to mention this to the old guy (a Fudd) that I hunt with.  :laugh:

 https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/549065-senate-democrats-call-on-biden-to-restore-oversight-of-semiautomatic-and


EDIT: Oh, as an entertaining (or aggravating) tangent, check out the comments to this article. Not just on guns, but the people who read The Hill believe crap like this (a commenter responding to someone stating that with groups like antifa, people want to be armed):

How locked down and narrow do your news sources need to be to actually believe this?

EDIT 2: I guess this is foreign sales. Still, bringing in nebulous terms like "sniper rifle" will have domestic gun control connotations.


I have said it before a few times...after “assault rifles” the focus will be on “high powered sniper rifles” and “deadly street sweepers”...aka deer rifles and shotguns..
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on April 20, 2021, 10:27:23 PM
I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.

What you did there, I see.  <yoda>
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JTHunter on April 20, 2021, 10:52:52 PM
I heard that loathsome piece of *expletive deleted*it is going to be 12 years sober this fall.

Well, he has had plenty of time to "dry out".  >:D
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 20, 2021, 11:23:20 PM
Leaked ATF Document Details Biden Plan to Ban ‘Ghost Guns’
https://thereload.com/leaked-atf-document-details-biden-plans-to-ban-ghost-guns/

Quote
The document reworks and broadens the definition of what parts constitute a regulated firearm receiver. It then says any unfinished part that “may readily be converted” into a receiver must be treated as a receiver and requires sellers to obtain federal licenses, mark the unfinished parts with serial numbers, and perform background checks on buyers. The proposal provides only subjective standards for what makes an unfinished part “readily” convertible into a finished firearm but provides footnotes to court cases where the term has been applied. One court example included in the document said a part completed in “around an eight-hour working day in a properly equipped machine shop” was considered “readily” convertible. The only example of a ruling defining when a part is not “readily” convertible involved a process that “required [a] master gunsmith in a gun shop and $65,000 worth of equipment and tools.”
Quote
The document also lays out plans to broaden and update the federal definition of firearms receiver to correct a problem with the ATF’s interpretation of the current definition. Courts have begun questioning the ATF’s long-running determination that an AR-15 lower is a receiver despite not including several of the parts required in the current definition. Prosecutors have been forced to drop cases involving the ATF’s determination in recent years.

Video

ATF Leaked Document Reveals Rule Changes, Definition Changes, and MORE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAnLnMYgLww
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on April 20, 2021, 11:35:55 PM
So we have to serialize all pieces of metal now. And shovels because I have seen an AK reciever made out of a shovel. Serialize #D printer filament too.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 20, 2021, 11:39:49 PM
Quote
The document reworks and broadens the definition of what parts constitute a regulated firearm receiver. It then says any unfinished part that “may readily be converted” into a receiver must be treated as a receiver and requires sellers to obtain federal licenses, mark the unfinished parts with serial numbers, and perform background checks on buyers. The proposal provides only subjective standards for what makes an unfinished part “readily” convertible into a finished firearm but provides footnotes to court cases where the term has been applied. One court example included in the document said a part completed in “around an eight-hour working day in a properly equipped machine shop” was considered “readily” convertible. The only example of a ruling defining when a part is not “readily” convertible involved a process that “required [a] master gunsmith in a gun shop and $65,000 worth of equipment and tools.”

That is... extremely broad.

Assuming I had the fixture plates made up ahead of time, and the taps/reamers needed - with some practice runs -  I believe I could go from a 0% AR lower forging to a functional lower in my machine shop in under 8 hours.

Hell, people have made them for like, cutting boards laminated together, haven't they?  Think a guy even did one out of wood.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on April 21, 2021, 12:54:25 AM
ATF Says Serialize Everything With Retired Agent Vince Cefalu/ Hank Strange WMMF Podcast Ep. 750
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WziEXEikLY

Hank Strange has Vince Cefalu on his show this evening talking about the leaked rules and the new BATFE nominee.  I have only caught the first 1/2 hour so far and it sounds pretty good. 

He didn't talk a great deal about the ATF nominee, but he thought the nomination would never get out of committee and he didn't have anything good to say about the man.  Also some spirited debate about gun laws.  This guy approaches things from the perspective of a federal agent, but he seems to be general agreement with gun rights and freedom.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on April 21, 2021, 10:41:59 AM
And now another shooting in Nebraska at a shopping mall. The Dems have to be behind this *expletive deleted*it.

It is not a conspiracy, but it is not a coincidence either.

We have around 330 million people in the country.

A tiny fraction are crazy evil nut jobs consumed with feelings of inferiority and entitlement.

The media deliberately hypes these types of crimes for ratings and to attempt to pass gun controls.  They obsess over the motives and identity of these worthless losers, making them famous.  If the perps survive to go to prison, large numbers of girls write them love letters.  At least one of these swine had his cell wall plastered with bikini pics sent to him by these women.

Then surprise!  Crazies get the correct idea that the easiest way to become famous and "important" is murder a lot of innocent people.  These bastards study each others crimes and try to up each other.

The copycat phenomenon is very well documented. 

If our media would stop giving these jackasses what the want, there would not be as many of them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 21, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
That is... extremely broad.

Assuming I had the fixture plates made up ahead of time, and the taps/reamers needed - with some practice runs -  I believe I could go from a 0% AR lower forging to a functional lower in my machine shop in under 8 hours.

Hell, people have made them for like, cutting boards laminated together, haven't they?  Think a guy even did one out of wood.

I could 100 percent go from flat 1/8" steel to a functional lower in less than 8 hours.  Without a CNC.

I suspect I could go from flat sheets of 1/8" acrylic and a chunk of aluminum to a functional lower in about 2 hours with my laser.

All pipe must now be serialized.

Entertainingly enough, you know what can't make an AR lower in 8 hours?  A 3D printer.  That takes about 2 days.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 21, 2021, 11:51:35 AM
I could 100 percent go from flat 1/8" steel to a functional lower in less than 8 hours.  Without a CNC.

I suspect I could go from flat sheets of 1/8" acrylic and a chunk of aluminum to a functional lower in about 2 hours with my laser.

All pipe must now be serialized.

Entertainingly enough, you know what can't make an AR lower in 8 hours?  A 3D printer.  That takes about 2 days.

I've thought about the flooding the system angle.  Depending on the definitions and process of serializing, particularly if there's a grandfathering process that doesn't cost anything to register existing ghost guns....  Form 2's go Brrrr.....

One could pretty easily take, say a F150, and within the confines of their definitions make a lower out of it.  Thereby making every F150 owner in construction possession.  The problem is that antics like this are just ignored by the legal system, they impart no change in the status quo.  A shoelace and an M1 is technically constructive possession of a MG under current rulings, right?  Yet no one is ever charged with that one, but the law still sits there, threatening to bite anyone.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 21, 2021, 12:17:53 PM
I've thought about the flooding the system angle.  Depending on the definitions and process of serializing, particularly if there's a grandfathering process that doesn't cost anything to register existing ghost guns....  Form 2's go Brrrr.....

One could pretty easily take, say a F150, and within the confines of their definitions make a lower out of it.  Thereby making every F150 owner in construction possession.  The problem is that antics like this are just ignored by the legal system, they impart no change in the status quo.  A shoelace and an M1 is technically constructive possession of a MG under current rulings, right?  Yet no one is ever charged with that one, but the law still sits there, threatening to bite anyone.

This is not 1994.  This definition will get challenged in court in .32 seconds.  Lawyers will stand there with slam fire shotguns and point out they take 10 min to build.  F150's will be brought up, as will the aforementioned shovels, AR flats receiver plans, Sterling plans, the Aero rifle, and I don't know how many others.

This will force actual a judicial ruling on the ATF's "interpretation"  of 27 CFR 478.11 vs. it's plain text.  I won't guarantee a win for our side, but the pretty clear legal answer is that it has to go back to the Legislature for rewording.  Honestly, the words "readily restored to...." only apply to machine guns, not firearms as a whole.   This isn't even a 2nd amendment issue.  This is an issue of regulatory agency vs. legislation.

Could the courts say "*expletive deleted*ck 'em" and decide to turn a blind eye?  Sure, wouldn't even really surprise me.  But at least will know how for down the slope we really are.

If that happens I guess we can all climb n the Defund the Police bandwagon.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 22, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
Bill to make silencers illegal with no grandfathering.

H.R.3454 - Help Empower Americans to Respond Act
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3454/text

Bills Look To Both Remove Silencers From NFA As Well As To Make Them Illegal Nationwide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK-IO-5NJz8

Edit: Just noticed that bill is from June 2019
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 24, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
Funny how it seems just right after they propose a ban on something we get a highly publicized incident with that very thing.  [tinfoil]

GRAPHIC: ‘Ghost gun’ used in San Diego shooting that killed 1, injured 4
https://www.wave3.com/2021/04/23/police-dead-wounded-downtown-san-diego-shooting/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 24, 2021, 09:38:49 AM
There is no such thing as a coincidence.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 24, 2021, 11:10:47 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/montana-governor-signs-bill-to-protect-second-amendment-from-federal-gun-restrictions

Quote
Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte signed a bill into law Friday that's intended to protect gun owners in the state from any new federal regulations or bans on firearms.

"Today, I proudly signed Rep. [Jedediah] Hinkle's law prohibiting federal overreach into our Second Amendment-protected rights, including any federal ban on firearms," Gianforte, a Republican, wrote on Twitter. "I will always protect our #2A right to keep and bear arms."

Good for him.  Not sure how much weight this law will actually carry.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 01, 2021, 08:58:41 AM
I wonder if AR mag supplies are starting to dry up? Primary Arms is not raising prices yet, but they have dropped their order limit to three mags per order.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on May 01, 2021, 09:13:46 AM
Not that I’ve seen for AR Mags.  I’ve been buying a few 10 packs of Gen 2 Magpuls here.  https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on May 01, 2021, 01:59:30 PM
I must take exception to this:

Quote
(of the types that can be owned and carried)

Nothing in the Second Amendment limits the keeping and bearing of arms to only those which can be afforded or hefted.

My great grandfather, a whaling captain with his own ship, owned cannon and bore them on his ship, no special license, permit, or caliber restrictions. He could afford them. He could bear them on his ship. No law said he couldn't. The Second Amendment prohibited anyone from creating such a law. No amendment has altered the Second Amendment. Ergo, the Second Amendment means the same now as then, and the right protected is as absolute now as then. No court of law can change that. The right existed long before any court in this land - or any other land for that matter - was created.

The need to keep and bear arms is no less relevant and essential now as it was any time in the past.

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JN01 on May 01, 2021, 05:01:10 PM
Hell, the early government depended on those private ship owners, issuing them letters of marque which was an official blessing for them use their private arms to attack and plunder the British Navy.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 01, 2021, 05:26:44 PM
Hell, the early government depended on those private ship owners, issuing them letters of marque which was an official blessing for them use their private arms to attack and plunder the British Navy.

It needs to be brought up more as a counter-argument every time one of these dumbasses brings up the "but muskets" line. I want my own Littoral Combat Ship.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on May 01, 2021, 05:42:36 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sMy3k4EJDIY/ULj0uiuTcxI/AAAAAAAAHEU/AHyzaI_gpgY/s1600/Letter+of+Marque.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on May 01, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
Not that I’ve seen for AR Mags.  I’ve been buying a few 10 packs of Gen 2 Magpuls here.  https://dsgarms.com/magazines-dsgtenpack01



I received my 10 mag order from them yesterday.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 01, 2021, 07:46:36 PM
It needs to be brought up more as a counter-argument every time one of these dumbasses brings up the "but muskets" line. I want my own Littoral Combat Ship.

I'm sure there's a pressing need for those where you live ...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 07, 2021, 06:05:24 PM
BREAKING: DOJ Publishes Proposed ‘Ghost Gun’ Rules, Outlawing Unserialized 80% Lowers, ‘Modernizing’ Receiver Definition
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-doj-publishes-proposed-ghost-gun-rules-outlawing-80-lowers-modernizing-receiver-definition/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 07, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
I'm sure there's a pressing need for those where you live ...
Hey, we have submarines.  =)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 07, 2021, 07:37:41 PM
Hey, we have submarines.  =)

We've got a submarine in Oklahoma too.

In fact, I could launch my boat in the navigation channel less than 40 miles from my house and "sail" to the Gulf of Mexico.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 07, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
BREAKING: DOJ Publishes Proposed ‘Ghost Gun’ Rules, Outlawing Unserialized 80% Lowers, ‘Modernizing’ Receiver Definition
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-doj-publishes-proposed-ghost-gun-rules-outlawing-80-lowers-modernizing-receiver-definition/

Hello 3-D printing.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 07, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Quote
Under the proposed rule, a “frame or receiver” is any externally visible housing or holding structure for one or more fire control components. A “fire control component” is one necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including, but not limited to, any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.

Any firearm part falling within the new definition that is identified with a serial number must be presumed, absent an official determination by ATF or other reliable evidence to the contrary, to be a frame or receiver.
Yet another ATF rule that literally ignores the law.
Sounds like uppers might be in the crosshairs.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 07, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote
To help keep guns from being sold to convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers, the rule would make clear that retailers must run background checks before selling kits that contain the parts necessary for someone to readily make a gun at home.

I wonder if they'll try to shoehorn stuff like PSA rifle kits (sans the stripped lower) into this? "Readily make" could certainly be defined in many ways.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 07, 2021, 09:00:08 PM
I wonder if they'll try to shoehorn stuff like PSA rifle kits (sans the stripped lower) into this? "Readily make" could certainly be defined in many ways.
The upper alone would be a receiver under these rules.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on May 07, 2021, 09:05:44 PM
Any externally visible housing or holding structure for a fire control part? Wear a case of triggers on your belt, congrats, you are now that state registered deadly weapon the braggy guy in boot camp claimed he was.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 12:45:05 AM
The upper alone would be a receiver under these rules.

The rule states that split receiver designs that already have a determination  (i.e. an AR15 design) will continue to use that determination as to what is a frame.  So they aren't trying to regulate AR uppers.

The "is designed to" language would seem to kill any commercial 80% (or 10% for that matter) frames.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 07:40:20 AM
The rule states that split receiver designs that already have a determination  (i.e. an AR15 design) will continue to use that determination as to what is a frame.  So they aren't trying to regulate AR uppers.
The rule unambiguously defines the upper as a receiver and does so in direct conflict of what the law says.  While there might be a determination right now, has the ATF ever changed a determination?

Also:
If the ATF lawyers thought they could do that, they would have by now.  They have dropped criminal cases and let people go over this issue, which you just know had to hurt their little black hearts.

There is no part (singular, as the definition is clearly singular) on many modern firearms that fits the legal definition of "receiver".  It will take legislative action to change that definition.  Those are facts. That can't be reinterpreted.
Your faith in the ATF has not aged well.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
Quote
Your faith in the ATF has not aged well.
indeed, my prediction has not.

I have learned more about the differences in Federal Law, Federal regulations, and rulemaking.  With new info I have had to update my thinking.  i.e.:

Quote
The rule unambiguously defines the upper as a receiver and does so in direct conflict of what the law says.  While there might be a determination right now, has the ATF ever changed a determination?

Is an untrue statement.  Federal LAW does not define an upper or lower.


I answered your speculation on what THIS proposed rule says.  If DOJ decides to update this rule again, then we would have to update our conversation.  But for now, ATF is explicitly not trying to serialize or treat as a receiver AR15 uppers.  There's enough bad in the new rule to deal with without inventing more problems.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 08:08:27 AM
Federal law defines what a receiver is. I never said it defines what is an upper or lower.

This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 08:18:33 AM
Federal law defines what a receiver is. I never said it defines what is an upper or lower.

This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.

It does not.  The receiver definition is a CFR, not a law.  Which we are all discovering is changed by the rulemaking process, not legislation.

Federal Law gives the director the regulatory authority to adjust the definition through the rule making process. 

Quote
This proposed rule would not require any update for the ATF to determine that uppers need to be serialized and transferred via FFL. It would be entirely up to the ATF to make determinations at that point.

This is also untrue, as the proposed rule specifically lists AR type multi-part receivers as not changing their determination as to which part is the receiver.  So if they wanted to include an AR upper, they would have to go through the rulemaking process again.

Have you read the actual rule, as opposed to the bloggers EXSUMS of it?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 08, 2021, 09:07:48 AM
It does not.  The receiver definition is a CFR, not a law.  Which we are all discovering is changed by the rulemaking process, not legislation.

Federal Law gives the director the regulatory authority to adjust the definition through the rule making process. 
That's mostly accurate, although while CFR may not be legislation it is by any reasonable definition law.

This is also untrue, as the proposed rule specifically lists AR type multi-part receivers as not changing their determination as to which part is the receiver.  So if they wanted to include an AR upper, they would have to go through the rulemaking process again.
Given the change in rule is explicitly designed to be less exclusive and narrow, and allows the ATF significant latitude in determining what is and is not a receiver, and given that the upper receiver of an AR-15 does contain the bolt and bolt carrier as per the listed definition, and given that the ATF can and has changed determinations in the past, what in the rule would prevent the ATF from issuing a simple determination that an upper is a receiver absent going through the rulemaking process?

Quote from: dogmush link=topic=63952.msg1305057#msg1305057 date=1620476313Have you read the actual rule, as opposed to the bloggers EXSUMS of it?[/quote
All 115 pages?  No.  Have you?  I've read parts of it directly, though.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 09:24:20 AM
All 115 pages?  No.  Have you?  I've read parts of it directly, though.

Yes, I did.

That's mostly accurate, although while CFR may not be legislation it is by any reasonable definition law.
Given the change in rule is explicitly designed to be less exclusive and narrow, and allows the ATF significant latitude in determining what is and is not a receiver, and given that the upper receiver of an AR-15 does contain the bolt and bolt carrier as per the listed definition, and given that the ATF can and has changed determinations in the past, what in the rule would prevent the ATF from issuing a simple determination that an upper is a receiver absent going through the rulemaking process?



Quote from: Proposed 478.11 (Frame or receiver.) (b) (3) (v):
AR-15-type, and Beretta AR-70-type firearms: the lower part of the weapon
that provides housing for the trigger mechanism and hammer.

There's a picture as well.  It's on page 86  They would have to edit the rule again, through the rule making process.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on May 08, 2021, 11:28:16 AM
Any insight as to how the proposed rule change affects existing unserialized frames, or firearms that have already been completed on such?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 08, 2021, 12:03:38 PM
Quote
As the proposed rule explains, from 2016 to 2020, more than 23,000 un-serialized firearms were reported to have been recovered by law enforcement from potential crime scenes

No doubt they're associating 80% lowers in with firearms where the S/N was  scratched off in that number.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 08, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
Any insight as to how the proposed rule change affects existing unserialized frames, or firearms that have already been completed on such?

The ATF has taken to calling those Privately Manufactured Firearms (PMF).  It's a long rule, but briefly:

o PMF's in private hands are not affected.
o Non-licensees may manufacture PMF's with no marking requirements.
o A PMF that enters a FFL's inventory MUST be serialized by that FFL within 7 days. (Definitely applies to normal FFL's, may apply to gunsmiths.)  The serial must begin with the FFL's abbreviated license number as a prefix, then have an identifying number.

On unfinished frames:  This rule would effectively make them firearms.  (there's some verbose wording, but they are clearly aiming for P80's and 80% AR lowers), so after the rule's adoption commercial 80% makers would need to serialize, pay excise tax, and be licensed Manufacturers.  There's no word in here how they intend to tell if when any particular 80% lower was made and sold.  So for example: I have 5 or 6 unfinished frames lying around my house.  Upon rule adoption, those are magically now firearms but as a non-licensee I am not required to mark any of my PMF's, so nothing should change for me, I think.  If my local gun shop has a bunch of unfinished lowers in stock, they magically become firearms, the FFL must mark them, enter them in the bound book, and sell them as firearm*.  If a prohibited person has an unfinished lower right now, upon rule adoption they are in possession of a firearm, and a felon.  The rule seems pretty dang broad and vague as to what level of unfinished chunk of metal is a firearm:

Quote
Partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable frame or receiver. The term “frame or receiver” shall include, in the case of a frame or receiver that is partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable, a frame or receiver that has reached a stage in manufacture where it may readily be completed, assembled, converted, or restored to a functional state. In determining whether a partially complete, disassembled, or inoperable frame or receiver may readily be assembled, completed, converted, or restored to a functional state, the Director may consider any available instructions, guides, templates, jigs, equipment, tools, or marketing materials. For purposes of this definition, the term “partially complete,” as it modifies “frame or receiver,” means a forging, casting, printing, extrusion, machined body or similar article that has reached a stage in manufacture where it is clearly identifiable as an unfinished component part of a weapon


*It is unclear to me in the case of existing inventory at a 01 FFL on magic firearm transfiguration day, who is required to pay the excise task, and whether the 01 FFL has just manufactured firearms for sale without a license.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on May 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
No doubt they're associating 80% lowers in with firearms the S/N scratched off in that number.

That was my thought, as well.  They're not the most ethical in how they sling their statistics.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on May 08, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
No doubt they're associating 80% lowers in with firearms where the S/N was  scratched off in that number.
There were a lot of firearms commercially manufactured in the past (Pre '68?) that never had a serial number, and they've still been legal. I believe the law prohibits possession of a firearm that has had the serial number removed or altered, it does NOT prohibit possession of a firearm that never had a serial number applied which was made at a time when serial numbers weren't required.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on May 08, 2021, 07:16:08 PM
There were a lot of firearms commercially manufactured in the past (Pre '68?) that never had a serial number, and they've still been legal. I believe the law prohibits possession of a firearm that has had the serial number removed or altered, it does NOT prohibit possession of a firearm that never had a serial number applied which was made at a time when serial numbers weren't required.

What that have to do with pushing a narrative?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 09, 2021, 08:50:02 AM
There's a picture as well.  It's on page 86  They would have to edit the rule again, through the rule making process.
I agree that the current rules don’t make an upper a serial numbered receiver, but can you show me where it says they would have to go through the rulemaking process again to add an additional receiver designation?

Everything I see indicates that the list is non-exhaustive and can be added to based solely on the determination of the ATF.  I agree that to add an upper would appear to conflict with what they are claiming to want to do, but it is way less of a stretch than bumpstocks being machine guns.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2021, 09:26:46 AM
I agree that the current rules don’t make an upper a serial numbered receiver, but can you show me where it says they would have to go through the rulemaking process again to add an additional receiver designation?

Everything I see indicates that the list is non-exhaustive and can be added to based solely on the determination of the ATF.  I agree that to add an upper would appear to conflict with what they are claiming to want to do, but it is way less of a stretch than bumpstocks being machine guns.

I literally quoted it.  The rule (if adopted) verbatim says that in an AR-15 the lower receiver is the "receiver".  They would have to remove that paragraph from the rule to make any other part of an AR-15 the "receiver".  The way you do that (remove a paragraph) is the rulemaking process.  (notice of proposed rule change, public comment, final rule change, publishing in federal register)

I think a lot of people don't understand what they did with the bump stock thing (which, you will recall, lost in court).  If they had a CFR that literally said "A bump stock is not a machine gun" then they couldn't have made it one with a determination letter.

IANAL, but I did spend the last 30 days reading about 600 pages on Laws, CFRs, rulemaking, and regulatory authority because the white house brought it up.

This is only the proposed rule change, so it may change before final adoption, but the rule, as proposed explicitly says the lower of an AR is THE[/i] receiver for the purposes of federal law.

The only caveat I see is that they mention if you combine the frames of two different weapons into one firearm, both frames remain firearms in their own right:
Quote
(2) Frames or receivers of different weapons that are combined to create a similar weapon each retain their respective classifications as frames or receivers provided they retain their original design and configuration.
This is referring (I suspect) to .50 BMG uppers, since they have previously been determined to be firearms.  A "normal" AR upper, as it exists today, is not a "different weapon" then the lower and falls under the spelled out definition I quoted above.

If you were to design some new fangled something that pins to an AR, after the adoption of the new rule you would need to submit that for a determination, because that's not an "AR tybe" firearm.  Future versions of the belt-fed upper or AR57 may find themselves a firearm in their own right.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 10, 2021, 09:41:27 AM
I literally quoted it.  The rule (if adopted) verbatim says that in an AR-15 the lower receiver is the "receiver".  They would have to remove that paragraph from the rule to make any other part of an AR-15 the "receiver".  The way you do that (remove a paragraph) is the rulemaking process.  (notice of proposed rule change, public comment, final rule change, publishing in federal register)
That illustration is not the rule. It is specifically referenced as one of several "nonexclusive examples that illustrate the definition."
The relevant portion of the actual definition is:
Quote
A part of a firearm that, when the complete weapon is assembled, is visible from the exterior and provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control components, even if pins or other attachments are required to connect those components to the housing or structure. Any such part identified with a serial number shall be presumed, absent an official determination by the Director or other reliable evidence to the contrary, to be a frame or receiver. For purposes of this definition, the term “fire control component” means a component necessary for the firearm to initiate, complete, or continue the firing sequence, including any of the following: hammer, bolt, bolt carrier, breechblock, cylinder, trigger mechanism, firing pin, striker, or slide rails.
[...]
(b) Split or modular frame or receiver. (1) In the case of a firearm with more than one part that provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control or essential internal components (e.g., a split frame with upper assembly
and lower assembly as in many semiautomatic rifles, upper slide assembly and lower grip module as in many semiautomatic handguns, or multiple silencer modular pieces), the Director may determine whether a specific part or parts of a weapon is the frame or receiver, which may include an internal frame or chassis at least partially exposed to the exterior to allow identification. In making this determination, the Director will consider the following factors, with no single factor being controlling:
 (i) Which component the manufacturer intended to be the frame or receiver;
 (ii) Which component the firearms industry commonly considers to be the frame or receiver with respect to the same or similar firearms;
 (iii) How the component fits within the overall design of the firearm when assembled;
 (iv) The design and function of the fire control components to be housed or integrated;
 (v) Whether the component may permanently, conspicuously, and legibly be identified with a serial number and other markings in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed;
 (vi) Whether classifying the particular component is consistent with the legislative intent of the Act and this part; and
 (vii) Whether classifying the component as the frame or receiver is consistent with ATF’s prior classifications.
This proposed rule gives the ATF the independent authority to determine what component or components are receivers so long as they meet the very broad definition of:
1. Being visible from the exterior
2. Holding or integrating any fire control components
This clearly could be used to identify an upper receiver as a firearm receiver.  As you point out, there is also nothing precluding multiple registered components on an assembled firearm.

To be fair to you, the proposal also says they aren't trying to change existing determinations and the rule implies deference to previous determinations as well as industry and manufacturer acceptance, however the stated intent of the rule does not necessarily impact the rule itself.  It clearly places the ATF in the position of making receiver determinations based on a broad definition which could easily apply to multiple components without going through the rulemaking process again.

Also probably good to keep in mind that for the past 50 or so years we've relied on the existing definition - despite (per the ATF themselves in this proposed change) that definition not literally applying to most modern firearms.  Regardless, they have enforced it as though it did.  Only when pressed in court did they back down, and then only by stopping prosecution of individual cases.  You seem to think that if we broaden the definition the ATF will suddenly decide to limit themselves and not continue their overreach.  I don't have the same faith in that agency.

I think a lot of people don't understand what they did with the bump stock thing (which, you will recall, lost in court).
 
Are you under the impression that the bumpstock ban has been overturned?  Also, as I recall last time it came up you defended the bumpstock ban as totally kosher.  Have you changed your position on that as well?  We've discussed it at some length before, but if there's something you think I don't understand about it I'd love to correct my lack of understanding.

If they had a CFR that literally said "A bump stock is not a machine gun" then they couldn't have made it one with a determination letter.
For the past 50 years they made AR lowers into receivers despite the CFR that literally said they weren't.  So...

This is only the proposed rule change, so it may change before final adoption, but the rule, as proposed explicitly says the lower of an AR is THE[/i] receiver for the purposes of federal law.
Interestingly, the proposed rule states:
Quote
The following is a nonexclusive list of such weapons and the specific part identified as the frame or receiver as they existed on [date of publication of the final rule]:
That seems to imply that these determinations could readily change and considering that based on the rule the ATF can independently define what a receiver is within the broad limits of the rule I don't see this as formally limiting the ATF in the way you assume it will.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 10, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
With the caveat that I am confused, Mrgunsngear did a video on this that seems to indicate an upper could be included based on the language. The section from the proposed rule is too long for me to type, but below is where he displays it in his video, so you can go to the link and pause it to read. It says that "frame or receiver" could include the bolt and bolt carrier group.

https://youtu.be/KIqG-c03QTE?t=129

On the tangent, I find it interesting that ATF uses "silencer" rather than "suppressor". While "silencer" is the commonly used nomenclature for the general public I guess, we all know there's no such thing as a silencer. The tin foil part of me can't help but think it's language manipulation to assist in banning "devices that make guns silent".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 10, 2021, 10:25:03 AM

On the tangent, I find it interesting that ATF uses "silencer" rather than "suppressor". While "silencer" is the commonly used nomenclature for the general public I guess, we all know there's no such thing as a silencer. The tin foil part of me can't help but think it's language manipulation to assist in banning "devices that make guns silent".

Maxim called them silencers in his 1909 patent so blame him
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 10, 2021, 12:25:23 PM
Cordex, you and I are reading that proposed rule differently.  Sub para 3 says:

Quote
The Director has previously determined that a specific part is the frame or
receiver with respect to certain weapons with split or modular frames or receivers. The
following is a nonexclusive list of such weapons and the specific part identified as the
frame or receiver as they existed on [date of publication of the final rule]:

In that paragraph "nonexclusive list of such weapons" means that there are more weapons with split receivers that the Director has made determinations on, but they are only putting some in the actual rule)  and "as they existed on ..."  means as the weapons (or weapon type) existed, not as the determination existed.

Under that sub para v says:
Quote
AR-15-type, and Beretta AR-70-type firearms: the lower part of the weapon that provides housing for the trigger mechanism and hammer.

The receiver of an AR is defined in the rule.  They would have to remove sub para "v" to make a new determination. 

Perhaps I am wrong, as I am not a lawyer, but that's what it says to my reading.


Bump Stock Ban article:
https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/26/federal-appeals-court-rules-trumps-bump-stock-ban-is-unconstitutional/

I confess I don't know exactly where in the legal wrangling that case is right now, and I think there may be a case in the 10 circuit as well.  In 2020 the SCOTUS declined to hear about the bump stock ban, so I have no idea where it will end up.  But at least in the 6th circuit there is an injunction against enforcing it.

With out digging through all my old posts on the matter, I think I felt at the time that the bumpstock ban was consistent with their previous machine gun rulings (shoelace/garand, akins accelerator, and electric motor switches  becoming the "new" trigger.)  I'm not sure I would say "completely kosher" but at least consistent.  I may have even said something like "within the scope of the determinatiion authority they have used before" or some such. If the Federal courts would care to disagree with me, I'd be happy to be corrected. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2021, 11:27:38 AM
Quote
“In short, David Chipman is uniquely qualified to lead ATF. He has deep experience at that agency, and he is ready to work with law enforcement, the communities most heavily impacted by violence, and others to make our nation safer while upholding Americans’ Second Amendment rights,” the letter states.

 [barf]

17 Democrat Attorneys General: David Chipman is ‘Uniquely Qualified to Lead ATF’
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/17-democrat-attorneys-general-david-chipman-is-uniquely-qualified-to-lead-atf/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on May 20, 2021, 11:39:36 AM
He burns kids real good is what they mean.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on May 21, 2021, 12:51:25 PM
The proposed rule change is now open for public comment on Regulations.gov.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/ATF-2021-0001-0001
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 21, 2021, 03:56:25 PM
MidwayUSA has all their pistol braces on sale .
All that I checked say this in the listing

Quote
Due to safety considerations and legal/regulatory reasons, Pistol Braces may not be returned. Defective items must be returned to the manufacturer.

They smell a ban coming soon
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
I haven't seen any articles on it yet, but just now heard on Fox Business that Biden is slated to announce a bunch of new EOs today on gun control. Among others, they mentioned "zero tolerance" for FFLs. I get a little nervous anytime I hear politicians use the phrase "zero tolerance".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2021, 08:50:54 AM
I haven't seen any articles on it yet, but just now heard on Fox Business that Biden is slated to announce a bunch of new EOs today on gun control. Among others, they mentioned "zero tolerance" for FFLs. I get a little nervous anytime I hear politicians use the phrase "zero tolerance".

Biden Expected To Push More Gun Control Amid Violence Surge
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2021/06/23/biden-expected-to-push-more-gun-control-amid-violence-surge-n46927

Hey Sniffy Joe, how about leaving honest citizens alone and signing some EOs on criminal control instead?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on June 23, 2021, 09:56:40 AM
   ....... Hey Sniffy Joe, how about leaving honest citizens alone and signing some EOs on criminal control instead?

Uh,  'cause criminals don't obey executive orders any more than they obey laws? ? ? ....  ;/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2021, 10:08:30 AM
It's all the NRA's fault!

Quote
Chris Martin
@chrisjdmartin
I almost just spit out my coffee.

Cedric Richmond (senior Biden advisor) is blaming the skyrocketing crime rates in America on... the @NRA

They've apparently been "governing our country for far too long"

Spoiler: Democrats control the House, Senate, and White House

Yeah right

Biden senior adviser Cedric Richmond blames NRA for increased violence because ‘they’ve been governing our country for far too long’ [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/06/23/biden-senior-adviser-cedric-richmond-blames-nra-for-increased-violence-because-theyve-been-governing-our-country-for-far-too-long-video/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2021, 11:06:41 AM
Quote
And where will he direct his efforts? We’ll have to listen to what he reads from the Teleprompter today, but from details that have been leaked from the White House, it appears he’ll use the excuse to further attack — wait for it — the gun business.

From Roll Call . . .

The Justice Department will announce a new “zero tolerance” policy to revoke the federal licenses of firearms dealers who willfully violate gun laws, senior administration officials said. That includes actions such as selling a gun to someone who is prohibited from possessing one, failing to do a background check on gun purchasers or falsifying records.

And the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will focus limited resources on inspecting those gun dealers who need it most, the officials said. That effort will employ crime data and closer connections with local law enforcement and community leaders who can point out problem dealers.

We're going to make it double secret illegal

Biden Set To Announce New Push To Shut Down More FFLs To Fight Violent Crime (Or Something)
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-set-to-announce-new-push-to-shut-down-ffls/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
Quote
failing to do a background check on gun purchasers

I wonder how that will impact states like mine, where dealers don't have to do a NICS on CCW holders?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2021, 01:24:37 PM
Here is the White House Fact Sheet on the latest push:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/23/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-comprehensive-strategy-to-prevent-and-respond-to-gun-crime-and-ensure-public-safety/

EDIT: Interesting snippet:

Quote
Guidance on Using ARP Funds to Reduce Violence. Today, the Treasury Department is highlighting that communities experiencing a surge in gun violence as a result of the pandemic may use the American Rescue Plan’s $350 billion in state and local funding for purposes such as:

Hiring law enforcement officials – even above pre-pandemic levels – or paying overtime where the funds are directly focused on advancing community policing strategies in those communities experiencing an increase in gun violence associated with the pandemic.
Additional enforcement efforts to reduce gun violence exacerbated by the pandemic, including prosecuting gun traffickers, rogue dealers, and other parties contributing to the supply of crime guns, as well as collaborative federal/state/local efforts to identify and address gun trafficking channels.
Investing in technology and equipment to allow law enforcement to more efficiently and effectively respond to the rise in gun violence resulting from the pandemic

So the pandemic caused these problems? Not defunding the cops, or riots or anything? The virus caused gun crime?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2021, 03:21:14 PM
Here is the White House Fact Sheet on the latest push:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/23/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-comprehensive-strategy-to-prevent-and-respond-to-gun-crime-and-ensure-public-safety/

EDIT: Interesting snippet:

So the pandemic caused these problems? Not defunding the cops, or riots or anything? The virus caused gun crime?
Nothing about getting prosecutors who will give fewer easy plea bargains or Judges who will stop letting violent criminals out on PR bonds.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2021, 06:11:09 PM
Biden on who gets to have guns and why you can't take on the government:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1407811027379621890
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/06/23/biden-reminds-2a-proponents-to-cool-it-because-theyd-need-f-15s-nukes-to-take-on-the-us-govt/

People will believe this horseshit. Somebody educate him on cannons and privateers.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2021, 06:17:44 PM
Biden on who gets to have guns and why you can't take on the government:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1407811027379621890
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/06/23/biden-reminds-2a-proponents-to-cool-it-because-theyd-need-f-15s-nukes-to-take-on-the-us-govt/

People will believe this horseshit. Somebody educate him on cannons and privateers.

Scary thing is I can actually see dems justifying using nukes against Americans to stay in power if push came to shove. 20 years ago I wouldn't have but today I wouldn't put anything pass them now. This isn't the first time they're brought up the subject of nukes in response to people bringing up the 2A

Tinfoil?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on June 23, 2021, 07:17:38 PM
They have had so much luck with viruses that I think they’d be more tempted to go with biowarfare.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on June 23, 2021, 07:43:48 PM
Biden on who gets to have guns and why you can't take on the government:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1407811027379621890
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/06/23/biden-reminds-2a-proponents-to-cool-it-because-theyd-need-f-15s-nukes-to-take-on-the-us-govt/

People will believe this horseshit. Somebody educate him on cannons and privateers.

We’d need nukes and F-15s?

The VC didn’t. Inbred goatfuckers in Afghanistan don’t have them either.

And those are two conflicts where American military members were all on the same side. A civil war? Much more divided allegiances.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2021, 09:11:49 PM
And those are two conflicts where American military members were all on the same side. A civil war? Much more divided allegiances.

Not to mention Biden doesn't control all the F-15s...

https://youtu.be/xFgNZG3gmqc?t=8
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on June 23, 2021, 11:28:05 PM
I just saw a video of today's newscast of of President Ponysoldier's gun control blather.  What a meandering mishmash of ineffable twaddle and incomprehensible meandering mumbling.  I'm beginning to actually feel sorry for Biden.

To the degree I could understand Biden's "take" on the second amendment,  he got it exactly 180° wrong.    Was he reading from a teleprompter?   Is he still able to read?

Geeesh.  This country is in deep kimshee if our adversaries start getting frisky.  =( 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2021, 11:36:27 PM

Geeesh.  This country is in deep kimshee if our adversaries start getting frisky.  =(

They are
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2021, 11:47:44 PM
Not to mention Biden doesn't control all the F-15s...

https://youtu.be/xFgNZG3gmqc?t=8
Or F-16s apparently.   =)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2021, 12:18:52 AM
I guess the second amendment covers fighter jets and nukes now. I'll just go ahead and sign up for those on the CMP's waiting list.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on June 24, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Did he actually go Swallwell, and say that nuking Oklahoma is on the table?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2021, 12:26:13 AM
We have stairs
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 24, 2021, 09:37:55 AM
. . . Was he reading from a teleprompter?   Is he still able to read?. . .
I'm pretty sure there was a teleprompter, and he was clearly struggling to read from it. As recently as last year he appeared to be doing OK in that regard, so there seems to be accelerating deterioration of his mental faculties.

I noticed Biden mentioned that over 3 million people were denied approval to buy a gun by the existing background check system - but of course he made no mention of the fact that virtually NO people who were CORRECTLY denied approval (e.g., convicted felons, illegal aliens, etc.) were prosecuted for illegally attempting to purchase a firearm.

He also made no mention of penalties for people who lie on the Federal gun purchase form. (Whew - Hunter is relieved.)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2021, 10:05:12 AM

I noticed Biden mentioned that over 3 million people were denied approval to buy a gun by the existing background check system - but of course he made no mention of the fact that virtually NO people who were CORRECTLY denied approval (e.g., convicted felons, illegal aliens, etc.) were prosecuted for illegally attempting to purchase a firearm.

He also made no mention of penalties for people who lie on the Federal gun purchase form. (Whew - Hunter is relieved.)

I'm reading 300,000 people.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/559601-record-300000-gun-sales-blocked-by-background-checks-last-year

Three million seems high even for a longer period. Biden is known to "slightly exaggerate" though.

And yeah, Hunter gets a free pass again.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2021, 11:49:14 AM
https://babylonbee.com/news/nation-starts-stocking-up-on-f-15s-after-biden-says-youll-need-them-to-overthrow-the-government
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2021, 12:52:23 PM
I'm pretty sure there was a teleprompter, and he was clearly struggling to read from it. As recently as last year he appeared to be doing OK in that regard, so there seems to be accelerating deterioration of his mental faculties.

I noticed Biden mentioned that over 3 million people were denied approval to buy a gun by the existing background check system - but of course he made no mention of the fact that virtually NO people who were CORRECTLY denied approval (e.g., convicted felons, illegal aliens, etc.) were prosecuted for illegally attempting to purchase a firearm.

He also made no mention of penalties for people who lie on the Federal gun purchase form. (Whew - Hunter is relieved.)
I have heard people speculate that he has someone talking to him via an earpiece.  I figure if someone is trying to talk with you while you are reading a teleprompter or trying to answer a question, that could be distracting even if you were normal. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2021, 04:20:13 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CQgpRKZLffv/?utm_medium=copy_link

Mrgunsngear posted a Palmetto State Armory listing for an F15 and a nuke.   =)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oI5wB94.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2021, 10:02:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xJaBWDZ.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2021, 10:03:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IDb4ECj.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2021, 10:25:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oI5wB94.jpg?1)

Cute, but that's not an F-15.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2021, 10:54:31 PM
Cute, but that's not an F-15.

Yep, it's an AR-15
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 25, 2021, 12:55:17 AM
But I thought I ordered a F-14 with the thing that goes up.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on June 25, 2021, 10:01:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IDb4ECj.jpg?1)

Umm ... Can I get a veteran discount on that?

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 25, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
Umm ... Can I get a veteran discount on that?

Woody
I would look at the Palmetto State Armory listing, but it is likely sold out already.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: TommyGunn on June 25, 2021, 02:33:06 PM
Go whole-hog and get the F-22 Raptor.  It's stealth, new and much more capable.  F-15s are near 50 year old designs and the air frames are not that strong.  One broke apart in midflight fifteen years ago.

  [tinfoil]

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 25, 2021, 04:06:56 PM
Go whole-hog and get the F-22 Raptor.  It's stealth, new and much more capable.  F-15s are near 50 year old designs and the air frames are not that strong.  One broke apart in midflight fifteen years ago.

  [tinfoil]
Do you need to transfer the F-15 through an FFL?  Maybe a curio/relic license would help.  Maybe we can also lobby to get the Air Force to turn over F-15's to the CMP. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 25, 2021, 04:09:49 PM
Anyone seen any good deals on A-10s?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 25, 2021, 04:53:03 PM
PSA was quick to jump on Biden's F-15 comment:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-tyranny-15-stripped-lower-receiver-ships-in-approximately-12-weeks.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=20210625&utm_term=afternoon&utm_content=6252021

(https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/t/y/tyranny-15_jpeg_advert_1_.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: just Warren on June 25, 2021, 07:21:46 PM
Pretty good prices on F-15s on Wish. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Fly320s on June 25, 2021, 09:22:09 PM
Anyone seen any good deals on A-10s?

I'm going a different direction: scorched Earth policy. 

AC-130J Ghostrider for me.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 27, 2021, 01:12:11 AM
... and now Tesla:
https://babylonbee.com/news/elon-musk-announces-new-tesla-model-f-15

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 30, 2021, 07:00:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/i4eKavt.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 05, 2021, 02:45:50 PM
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ua6zvruewu/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/301/1021/IMG_2563__12901.1624659814.jpg?c=1)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on July 22, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
No mention regarding his son's illegal purchase:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1418013898167316481

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/07/22/i-absolutely-will-not-comply-dana-loesch-has-some-choice-words-for-joe-biden-after-he-reveals-his-true-intentions-on-gun-control/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: lee n. field on July 22, 2021, 09:49:21 PM
I'm reading 300,000 people.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/559601-record-300000-gun-sales-blocked-by-background-checks-last-year

Three million seems high even for a longer period. Biden is known to "slightly exaggerate" though.

And yeah, Hunter gets a free pass again.

"Numbers, schmumbers." -- He's a D. after all. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 03, 2021, 09:50:23 PM
They think they found a "legal" way to regulate 3D printed firearms.

Quote
In response, the BIS has now declared that anyone engaged in manufacturing, exporting or ‘furnishing’ 3D printed firearms, are subject to Export Administration Regulations (EAR) instead. To help those currently in possession of the software and machinery needed to produce these munitions stay compliant, the bureau has therefore issued a detailed FAQ, which it “strongly encourages” them to read.
U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security imposes ‘EAR’ restrictions on 3D printed guns
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/u-s-bureau-of-industry-and-security-imposes-ear-restrictions-on-3d-printed-guns-193254/

Biden Administration Finds Loophole To Ban 3d Printed Firearms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHjEJD1MSQ
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on August 03, 2021, 10:44:11 PM
They don't seem to appreciate that we can just make "real" guns any old time with a mill and lathe.  The more they dick around with regulating 3D printers,  the closer more likely they make "*expletive deleted*ck it,  everything's illegal,  I'll make whatever I want" a reality.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on August 03, 2021, 10:54:28 PM
Might as well have the happy switch on everything.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on August 03, 2021, 11:35:12 PM
If you don't have a print on how to make a DIAS, you're a wussie.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on August 04, 2021, 09:58:03 AM
They think they found a "legal" way to regulate 3D printed firearms.
U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security imposes ‘EAR’ restrictions on 3D printed guns
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/u-s-bureau-of-industry-and-security-imposes-ear-restrictions-on-3d-printed-guns-193254/

Biden Administration Finds Loophole To Ban 3d Printed Firearms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHjEJD1MSQ

So- can the files just be published on a server outside the USA to get around this? 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: ConstitutionCowboy on August 04, 2021, 10:09:39 AM
I wish they'd call it what it is. It's disarmament. We should call it what it is and not fall into their narrative.  :old:

As a side note, can anyone tell me of an incident where a gun got out of control?

Woody
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on August 04, 2021, 10:14:37 AM
As a side note, can anyone tell me of an incident where a gun got out of control?
I think Kentucky Ballistics recently had a video of a gun getting out of control.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on August 04, 2021, 10:58:53 AM
Plenty sadly. One with a machine gun fun shoot and someone let a kid shoot an smg and it walked back over his head and shot someone. Been around a few unintentional FA pistols when they had a failure. There is a reason you test unknown guns with one in the magazine only first.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 04, 2021, 11:30:20 AM
Plenty sadly. One with a machine gun fun shoot and someone let a kid shoot an smg and it walked back over his head and shot someone. Been around a few unintentional FA pistols when they had a failure. There is a reason you test unknown guns with one in the magazine only first.

SKSs when someone didn't clean the cosmoline and/or crud out of the fire pin channel and they go full auto upon releasing the bolt. :O
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: 230RN on August 04, 2021, 11:48:39 AM
Plenty sadly. One with a machine gun fun shoot and someone let a kid shoot an smg and it walked back over his head and shot someone. Been around a few unintentional FA pistols when they had a failure. There is a reason you test unknown guns with one in the magazine only first.

I used to recommend two in the mag.  With only one you can't tell if it's going to double tap or not, only that it won't blow up.  Two is still nominally controllable.  I can attest that an unintended full mag dump is a scary proposition.  Every bullet has to come down somewhere.

Right or wrong, I diagnosed a Sterling hammerless .22 pistol as having slightly too much clearance between the firing pin and the channel in which it rode.  This allowed the firing pin to slip off the sear with the impact of the slide closure.  It could have been repaired with a new, "higher" sear, but I decided that was too much of a balancing act.  I don't have it anymore, but I can't remember what I did with it.  Probably a decent burial at sea.  Well, OK, burial at lake, anyway.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on August 04, 2021, 04:14:28 PM
Mexico is suing a whole gaggle of gun manufacturers and dealers. I expect this will be used by Biden.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-gov-sues-us-gun-manufacturers
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 04, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
Mexico is suing a whole gaggle of gun manufacturers and dealers. I expect this will be used by Biden.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-gov-sues-us-gun-manufacturers

Quote
And, BTW, the Mexican government is represented by the antigun group Brady United. @NSSF https://t.co/luucJHun53
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mexican-government-is-suing-glock-beretta-barrett-sw-and-colt-over-arms-crossing-the-border/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on August 04, 2021, 05:22:05 PM
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mexican-government-is-suing-glock-beretta-barrett-sw-and-colt-over-arms-crossing-the-border/
More BS about marketing strategies.  That needs to be get shut down. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on August 04, 2021, 05:28:42 PM
Maybe Mexico should have built a wall to keep those evil guns out.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 05, 2021, 05:32:07 PM
Give them back California. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 05, 2021, 06:28:09 PM
More BS about marketing strategies.  That needs to be get shut down.

It got Bushmaster/Remington to cough up a $$$$ offer.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on August 05, 2021, 08:17:31 PM
It got Bushmaster/Remington to cough up a $$$$ offer.
Technically their old insurance company that is left holding the liability bag. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on August 05, 2021, 08:20:24 PM
https://youtu.be/c1Jm_Kt2IcI
Among other things Paul Lathrop said we need to sue Mexico for the drugs they allow to be trafficked across the border, and all sorts of other related stuff.  They talked about other stuff also.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on August 06, 2021, 06:41:23 PM
https://youtu.be/c1Jm_Kt2IcI
Among other things Paul Lathrop said we need to sue Mexico for the drugs they allow to be trafficked across the border, and all sorts of other related stuff.  They talked about other stuff also.
We should sue them for all the non-Mexicans that cross the border illegally - there is NO WAY that many hundreds of thousands of OTM (Other Than Mexican) foreigners can cross a thousand miles of Mexico to get to our border without the connivance of the Mexican government.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 09, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
One to keep an eye on.

H.R.4953 — 117th Congress (2021-2022)
Quote
As of 08/09/2021 text has not been received for H.R.4953
Quote
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act any semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4953/text
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 11, 2021, 12:29:48 PM
More BS about marketing strategies.  That needs to be get shut down.

Hope you're not holding your breath on that happening anytime soon.

Court Rules Smith & Wesson Has to Turn Over Internal Marketing Documents to New Jersey Attorney General
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/court-rules-smith-wesson-has-to-turn-over-internal-marketing-documents-to-new-jersey-attorney-general/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on August 11, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Hope you're not holding your breath on that happening anytime soon.

Court Rules Smith & Wesson Has to Turn Over Internal Marketing Documents to New Jersey Attorney General
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/court-rules-smith-wesson-has-to-turn-over-internal-marketing-documents-to-new-jersey-attorney-general/
Certainly not with a court in New Jersey. 

Nothing happens soon in the court system these days.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 13, 2021, 08:55:26 AM
ATF Says Rare Breed Trigger Is A Machinegun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slo6nLv1mwg

Rare Breed Triggers Complaint Against the ATF and DOJ
https://theinfidel.co/blogs/news/rare-breed-triggers-complaint-against-the-atf-and-doj
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on August 13, 2021, 09:49:29 AM
ATF Says Rare Breed Trigger Is A Machinegun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slo6nLv1mwg

Rare Breed Triggers Complaint Against the ATF and DOJ
https://theinfidel.co/blogs/news/rare-breed-triggers-complaint-against-the-atf-and-doj
I had no idea what that trigger was.  I had to look up a couple videos on it.  Looks like it is essentially a bump fire trigger.  I don't know how they thought the ATF wouldn't come after them on this trigger.  IMO, there is likely more justification to call this a machine gun than the bump stocks.  It still doesn't quite get there as far as the letter of the law. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmD5KCzUa8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTZFjejWpjY
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on August 13, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
The rare breed trigger is not a machine gun any more than a bump stock is a machine gun.  Your finger has to pull the trigger every time to shoot the gun.

That doesn't matter though.

The government has contempt for the rule of law.

The government has the utmost contempt for the Bill of Rights.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 13, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
TTAG has picked up the story

Biden Pulls a Trump Card – Rare Breed FRT-15 Trigger Now Classified as a Machine Gun
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-pulls-a-trump-card-rare-breed-frt-15-trigger-now-classified-as-a-machine-gun/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 14, 2021, 09:53:06 PM
Here's a crazy bill from PA

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2021&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=1786&pn=2026
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on August 20, 2021, 06:59:22 AM
Rare Breed’s response:
https://vimeo.com/589573539
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on August 21, 2021, 06:50:02 PM
Biden (or more likely his handlers) moving to ban Russian guns and ammo:

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/08/breaking-biden-administration-bans-importation-of-russian-guns-and-ammo/

Quote
New sanctions imposed today under the CBW Act include:

Restrictions on the permanent imports of certain Russian firearms. New and pending permit applications for the permanent importation of firearms and ammunition manufactured or located in Russia will be subject to a policy of denial.

Well, *expletive deleted*ck.  Just as ammo prices were starting to decline.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on August 21, 2021, 09:13:38 PM
Wow... ammo prices are going to go nuts.  Even more so!

We get LOTS of ammo from Russia.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on August 21, 2021, 10:07:08 PM
You mean, "we used to ..."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on August 22, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
The only surprise is that it's taken this long for him to start moving - imports are one of the few areas that POTUS has actual power & authority to hurt us all on his own.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on August 29, 2021, 10:20:07 AM
Now that that pesky COVID thing has been dealt with time for the CDC to tackle gun disease

After Using Unconstitutional Powers to Stop Evictions, CDC Director Sets Her Sights on Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/after-using-unconstitutional-powers-to-stop-evictions-cdc-director-sets-her-sights-on-guns/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on September 09, 2021, 09:21:23 AM
WH is pulling ATF nominee.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chipman-atf-withdraw/2021/09/09/d5804a3a-1108-11ec-a511-cb913c7e5ba0_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chipman-atf-withdraw/2021/09/09/d5804a3a-1108-11ec-a511-cb913c7e5ba0_story.html)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on September 09, 2021, 10:18:32 PM
WH is pulling ATF nominee.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chipman-atf-withdraw/2021/09/09/d5804a3a-1108-11ec-a511-cb913c7e5ba0_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chipman-atf-withdraw/2021/09/09/d5804a3a-1108-11ec-a511-cb913c7e5ba0_story.html)

Take the small win I guess.   *expletive deleted*ck that guy.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on December 08, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Look out folks

I will admit I don't know enough about the tiny details of what's going on to really give a creteak of this but here it is.

URGENT: Mitch McConnel To Allow “One Time” Bypass of Fillibuster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUyjjblATrY

And it looks like the dems MAY be jumping on the offer to ram through their dream gun bills

Anti Gun Senator Says He Has The Votes For Gun Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOPJLHSQ4Z0
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on December 08, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
That *expletive deleted*ing retard god how I hate him. You can always count on a spineless RINO to compromise away everything. Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on December 08, 2021, 10:59:00 PM
They really don't care about a red wave. They just want to pass as much as they can.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on January 17, 2022, 01:21:46 PM
Washington State To Hear Several Gun Control Bills TODAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi50Z10LM_U

The Washington State bills he brings up

SB 5217 https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5217&Year=2021&Initiative=false#documentSection
Seems to ban pretty much ban most semi auto rifles from a quick read

SB 5568 https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5568&Initiative=false&Year=2021
Repeals state gun law preemption

SB 5578  https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5078&Year=2021&Initiative=false
Bans "large" cap mags

HB 1705 https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1705&Year=2021&Initiative=false
Ban "Ghost" guns

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on January 17, 2022, 01:55:17 PM
Rare Breed now has a 3 position forced reset trigger which looks awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd0Y5PFKDWg

Hopefully they will win their legal battle.   [ar15]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on January 17, 2022, 03:35:07 PM
Just from the video, anyone who didn't know how his trigger operates would say that is a full auto trigger.  Looks like one trigger pull even if it is not.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on January 19, 2022, 09:21:43 AM
Responding to Texas Incident, Biden Admits Gun Control Didn’t Work
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/responding-to-texas-incident-biden-admits-gun-control-didnt-work/?ct=t(RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN)#axzz7IQRgicKp

Quote
Responding to questions from reporters, Biden admitted, “The idea of background checks are critical, but you can’t stop something like this if someone’s on the streets buying something from somebody else on the streets.”
I am sure this won't stop them from thinking even more laws will work.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: K Frame on January 19, 2022, 09:26:23 AM
Well we obviously need a law that makes it illegal for someone to buy something from somebody else on the streets!

It's for the chillruns!

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILLRUNS?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on January 19, 2022, 12:27:51 PM
Well we obviously need a law that makes it illegal for someone to buy something from somebody else on the streets!

It's for the chillruns!

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILLRUNS?
I am sure it won't be long before some politicians decides the govt needs to be the middleman in EVERY transaction (less X% for taxes).  It is their money after all. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on January 19, 2022, 01:07:05 PM
I am sure it won't be long before some politicians decides the govt needs to be the middleman in EVERY transaction (less X% for taxes).  It is their money after all.

They would dearly love to do this, for that reason.  Private, cash sales represent a significant amount of tax evasion.

Never mind that sales tax was originally paid on the item when it was originally bought from a shop.
And that shop paid taxes on the gains.
And the buyer paid taxes on the income used to buy the item.
And paid taxes on the fuel used to go to the shop
And paid yearly taxes for the vehicle they drove there.
And paid taxes on the building they driving the item back to.

We are taxed to death, and somehow, it's just never enough for the politicians.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JTHunter on January 20, 2022, 12:29:03 AM
We are taxed to death, and somehow, it's just never enough for the politicians.

Ain't that the truth !!  :facepalm:
It's like that old joke about how cold it was.  The politicians were keeping their hands in their own pockets instead of ours !
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on January 27, 2022, 08:17:38 AM
When the Biden administration said it’s "going after rogue gun dealers" I didn't  think I would ever see the Amish brought up.

ATF raids Amish farmer, seizes guns
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/01/26/atf-raids-amish-farmer-seizes-guns-n54826
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 27, 2022, 09:41:56 AM
This popped up in my "suggested" vids last night.

No idea who this guy is or if his info is credible, but supposedly a leaked ATF email flatly states seizures of Wide Open and Rare Breed trigger parts will begin today.

https://youtu.be/RRkJtcz9ipg

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on January 28, 2022, 04:20:21 PM
Biden is headed to NYC next Thursday to talk about how evil guns are and what he plans to do about them. I'm not sure if these are new plans, or if he's rehashing his old plans to make a big media production out of it, then let it all go on the backburner again.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/01/28/dem-damage-control-biden-headed-to-nyc-next-week-to-promote-his-strategy-to-combat-gun-crime/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on January 28, 2022, 05:12:14 PM
Biden is headed to NYC next Thursday to talk about how evil guns are and what he plans to do about them. I'm not sure if these are new plans, or if he's rehashing his old plans to make a big media production out of it, then let it all go on the backburner again.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/01/28/dem-damage-control-biden-headed-to-nyc-next-week-to-promote-his-strategy-to-combat-gun-crime/

Well we all know making a media storm of gun control will help keep Republicans away from the midterms. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on January 28, 2022, 05:23:56 PM
Well we all know making a media storm of gun control will help keep Republicans away from the midterms.

Politicians these days don't seem to know what the term, "long game" means anymore. They're all in the "today game". If this knocks Biden's poll numbers up five points the week after next, he'll call it a win.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: French G. on January 28, 2022, 11:52:35 PM
So do we get a NYC mass shooting hours before he gets there like the bridge? [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on January 29, 2022, 07:32:54 AM
So do we get a NYC mass shooting hours before he gets there like the bridge? [tinfoil]

Probably. Of course being NYC like any other giant shithole it’s good odds it’ll happen naturally.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 03, 2022, 01:14:41 PM
So do we get a NYC mass shooting hours before he gets there like the bridge? [tinfoil]

New term "Iron Pipeline"

Quote
Here’s the AP’s report of the administration’s latest effort at distraction . . .

The Biden administration is expanding a crackdown on untraceable guns and firearms trafficking along the East Coast “iron pipeline” and elsewhere as police departments across the nation fight surging gun violence that’s left a trail of bloodshed already this year.

President Joe Biden plans to announce the effort during a visit Thursday to New York City, where he’ll also showcase his plan to work with state and local law enforcement to get guns and repeat shooters off the streets. Biden also will stop at a school to meet with violence intervention leaders.

The visit comes as illegal guns flood the streets and gun violence claims scores of lives, including those of police officers. At the same time, Biden, a Democrat, is trying to dispel criticism from the right that he hasn’t been tough enough on crime.

Biden’s Latest Misdirection Maneuver: Battling the ‘Iron River’ of Guns Into NYC
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/bidens-latest-misdirection-maneuver-battling-the-iron-river-of-guns-into-nyc/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on February 03, 2022, 02:12:47 PM
I am sure none of that would have anything to do with  complete lack of enforcement of any crimes short of murder.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 03, 2022, 02:19:18 PM
Quote
"Iron Pipeline"

New PSA lower in 3,2,1.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 03, 2022, 02:19:30 PM
I am sure none of that would have anything to do with  complete lack of enforcement of any crimes short of up to and often including murder.

FIFY
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on February 03, 2022, 03:06:34 PM
Nice video captures of 46 and his lies:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/02/03/joe-biden-takes-aim-at-gun-owners-and-the-2nd-amendment-with-weird-series-of-lies-including-one-that-earned-four-pinocchios-from-wapo-videos/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 03, 2022, 07:28:37 PM
Uh oh, Joe’s fired up…

https://rumble.com/vtzbs8-what-biden-said-should-terrify-every-gun-owner.html (https://rumble.com/vtzbs8-what-biden-said-should-terrify-every-gun-owner.html)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on February 03, 2022, 07:52:47 PM
Where do I get one of those 40 round Glock magazines? I need one of those!
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: gunsmith on February 03, 2022, 08:33:04 PM
 ghost guns are what i heard on my morning commute, i guess them ghost guns are scarier - what the heck do they intend to do, out law cnc machines and metal? LOL.
I think this is just virtue signalling and hyperbole and no actual meaningful thing will happen
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on February 03, 2022, 09:01:20 PM
Uh oh, Joe’s fired up…

https://rumble.com/vtzbs8-what-biden-said-should-terrify-every-gun-owner.html (https://rumble.com/vtzbs8-what-biden-said-should-terrify-every-gun-owner.html)

What did Brandon say?  I can't stomach listening to him.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 04, 2022, 08:43:50 AM
ghost guns are what i heard on my morning commute, i guess them ghost guns are scarier - what the heck do they intend to do, out law cnc machines and metal? LOL.
I think this is just virtue signalling and hyperbole and no actual meaningful thing will happen

Saw an article, can't find right now, that stated that to make the claim that we now have a "ghost" gun crime epidemic they're now counting guns with scratched off serial numbers as "ghost" guns.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 04, 2022, 09:30:52 AM
Where do I get one of those 40 round Glock magazines? I need one of those!

Don't know about 40s but several companies make 50 round drum mags for Glocks
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 04, 2022, 09:37:59 AM
40 round stick mags for Glocks
 https://www.etsgroup.us/ETS-40-round-9mm-mag-fits-Glock-17-18-19-26-p/glk-18-40.htm
https://modernwarriors.com/product/kriss-usa-magex-40-round-9mm-magazine-fits-glock-17

30-33 round stick mags for Glocks are quite common
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 04, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Anyone make drum mags for a Kel-Tec  Sub2K?  Asking for a friend…. :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on February 04, 2022, 12:33:21 PM
Anyone make drum mags for a Kel-Tec  Sub2K?  Asking for a friend…. :rofl:
Since many take Glock magazines, Yes.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 04, 2022, 01:06:21 PM
^^^^^
What he said

~95% of all Sub 2Ks I've seen in the wild took Glock mags.
Which mags "your friend's" take should be indicated  on the side.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 04, 2022, 04:55:21 PM
I have a few stick mags but a drum may be fun.

This a decent deal?   https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/ (https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 05, 2022, 12:07:18 AM
I have a few stick mags but a drum may be fun.

This a decent deal?   https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/ (https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/)

I tried one of those.  Okay as a range toy, but not reliable enough for me.  Three, sometimes four stoppages before the mag is empty.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on February 05, 2022, 12:33:08 AM
I wouldn't trust a non-OEM drum magazine.  I have a 30-something round stick magazine for my BHP and it seems reliable enough but it's clumsy.  (rather, I'm clumsy with it)  I like 20-round mags a lot better.  They do stick out the bottom of the grip an inch or so.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 05, 2022, 06:53:17 AM
I have a few stick mags but a drum may be fun.

This a decent deal?   https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/ (https://www.righttobear.com/50rds-drum-black-fits-glock-9mm/)

Very few drum mags I would half way trust with the Suomi drums and the Russian copies used on the PPsH  (the drum was copied) and the newer Magpuls being exceptions somewhat. There a reason militaries dropped drum mags when they could.
Look at the Magpul drum although it's going to be ~2x what you linked to, their AR drum has gotten good reviews
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 05, 2022, 08:59:58 AM
In reality, not really sure I’m interested in a drum mag for my Sub 2K. I have plenty of stick mags for that. 

I only have 1 drum and that’s for an AK.  Works great but sits in a box as I’ve only taken it out a couple times to ops check. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on February 10, 2022, 11:26:04 AM
Something to keep an eye on

Washington State Magazine Ban Passes State Senate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exB8UjxIVfw
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 10, 2022, 05:04:21 PM
Here's some of what's coming out next week:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-expected-release-ghost-gun-rule

He'll also be pushing his new ATF nominee.

It will be interesting to see what the definitions of parts, kits, and receivers ends up being.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MikeB on April 10, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
They keep talking about tracing, but what difference does that actually make? Maybe they get a straw purchaser who probably won’t be charged or convicted anyway. Most crime guns are stolen in any event and tracing does nothing.

Secondly. While I don’t trust SCOTUS, there is a specific reason so called ghost guns are legal, the Federal government has no constitutional authority to control someone making a gun in there home. The only reason they can require background checks on purchase at a FFL is that FFLs are federally licensed. I question the constitutional authority on that as well, but it is somewhat established at the moment. The Federal government telling me I can’t make my own gun not so much. This is exactly why some states allow private transfers and some don’t now.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 10, 2022, 06:05:05 PM
They keep talking about tracing, but what difference does that actually make?

Yeah, I don't know either. Regarding tracing, what difference is there between a stolen gun with a serial number (the majority of guns used in crimes) and a non-serialized gun?

Not to mention this is all part of the "Evil Black Rifle" stuff, regardless of how infrequently they are used in crimes.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 10, 2022, 06:43:20 PM
Yeah, I don't know either. Regarding tracing, what difference is there between a stolen gun with a serial number (the majority of guns used in crimes) and a non-serialized gun?

Not to mention this is all part of the "Evil Black Rifle" stuff, regardless of how infrequently they are used in crimes.

As long as they can trace it to "somebody", "somebody" can be prosecuted persecuted for the egregious offense of having owned a crime gun some time in the past. Prove it wasn't your fault.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 10, 2022, 06:57:14 PM
There's been 20 years of CSI type shows saying that with a serial number you can trace the gun to it's owner through the gun registry.   People believe  that is how it works, and the grabbers know this, so they use scary statements that imply  that [fictional] tracing is in jeopardy and joe public buys it.


The GhostGunner 3 can (or will in the near furure) mill a reciever from a square billet of aluminum.  The 3d printed community has been making functional semi-autos basically from scratch  for years.  Home CNCs can knock out a sub gun in less than a day. By bringing this to criminals attention the media and gov basically pointed out how easy it is to make automatic weapons or conversion sears. The Gov has lost this fight and doesn't even know it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 10, 2022, 10:30:24 PM
Yeah, I don't know either. Regarding tracing, what difference is there between a stolen gun with a serial number (the majority of guns used in crimes) and a non-serialized gun?


Or a stolen gun that has had the serial number ground off?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 10, 2022, 10:47:07 PM
They keep talking about tracing, but what difference does that actually make? Maybe they get a straw purchaser who probably won’t be charged or convicted anyway. Most crime guns are stolen in any event and tracing does nothing.

Secondly. While I don’t trust SCOTUS, there is a specific reason so called ghost guns are legal, the Federal government has no constitutional authority to control someone making a gun in there home. The only reason they can require background checks on purchase at a FFL is that FFLs are federally licensed. I question the constitutional authority on that as well, but it is somewhat established at the moment. The Federal government telling me I can’t make my own gun not so much. This is exactly why some states allow private transfers and some don’t now.

Sure they do.  Under the interstate commerce clause.  Legislated, challenged up to the supreme court, and upheld.

See, if you make a gun at home, then you won't buy one, which impacts interstate commerce.  The fun part is that even holds up for things that are illegal to buy.

Caselaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn), more caselaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich).
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on April 11, 2022, 05:59:01 AM
There's been 20 years of CSI type shows saying that with a serial number you can trace the gun to it's owner through the gun registry. People believe  that is how it works, and the grabbers know this, so they use scary statements that imply  that [fictional] tracing is in jeopardy and joe public buys it.

I can’t count the number of times I hear some idiot in person say “Well I have guns but they are/aren’t registered with the police department” it makes me want to scream WE DON’T HAVE REGISTRATION YOU *expletive deleted*ing IDIOT
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2022, 07:54:55 AM
I can’t count the number of times I hear some idiot in person say “Well I have guns but they are/aren’t registered with the police department” it makes me want to scream WE DON’T HAVE REGISTRATION YOU *expletive deleted*ing IDIOT

Yeah, that stuff bugs me more than gun functionality stupidity in Hollywood. There's also, "Do you have a license for that gun?" even when the cops find it in a nightstand drawer, not on the person in public.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2022, 09:21:42 AM
*
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2022, 10:08:20 AM
Once in a while a local reporter uses the term unlicensed and/or unregistered when referring to guns found involved in a crime usually in a manner that implies that is a crime in of itself.
Don't know if they're a transplant from Commiefornia and/or someone who's total firearm knowledge comes from TV and/or pushing their agenda. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 11, 2022, 10:26:09 AM
Don't know if they're a transplant from Commiefornia and/or someone who's total firearm knowledge comes from TV and/or pushing their agenda.

Those three options are not mutually exclusive.

Just read a quote from an article about Biden's new initiative that revived the trope that ghost guns are "mostly plastic so they can't be detected by metal detectors."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on April 11, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
Secondly. While I don’t trust SCOTUS, there is a specific reason so called ghost guns are legal, the Federal government has no constitutional authority to control someone making a gun in there home. The only reason they can require background checks on purchase at a FFL is that FFLs are federally licensed. I question the constitutional authority on that as well, but it is somewhat established at the moment. The Federal government telling me I can’t make my own gun not so much. This is exactly why some states allow private transfers and some don’t now.

While you are correct, that does not matter.  Courts have let the federal government do whatever they want for longer than I have been alive by agreeing that everything effects "interstate commerce" so the feds can do anything they want.  Try making your own machine gun at home, and the courts will be happy to toss you in prison if you get caught.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: zxcvbob on April 11, 2022, 11:23:17 AM
While you are correct, that does not matter.  Courts have let the federal government do whatever they want for longer than I have been alive by agreeing that everything effects "interstate commerce" so the feds can do anything they want.  Try making your own machine gun at home, and the courts will be happy to toss you in prison if you get caught.

I agree with both of you.  Actually, the Commerce Clause should have no bearing on the matter because the 2nd Amendment puts arms outside the reach of the CC.  That's why it's called an amendment; it amends the commerce clause and any other powers the government might draw from the Constitution to say they don't extend to guns.

But I'm not on the Supreme Court, and even if I was I don't think I could convince the rest of them that the government should forfeit that much ill-gotten power.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2022, 12:06:51 PM

Just read a quote from an article about Biden's new initiative that revived the trope that ghost guns are "mostly plastic so they can't be detected by metal detectors."

"That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines here and it costs more than what you make in a month!"
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MikeB on April 11, 2022, 12:20:25 PM
Sure they do.  Under the interstate commerce clause.  Legislated, challenged up to the supreme court, and upheld.

See, if you make a gun at home, then you won't buy one, which impacts interstate commerce.  The fun part is that even holds up for things that are illegal to buy.

Caselaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn), more caselaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich).

Not entirely true. The whole reason current Federal laws only apply to FFL's is they can claim that is interstate commerce and thus they Fed government can put regulations on FFL's. This was recognized at the time, which is why the regulations work that way. The reason I said I don't trust SCOTUS is that they usually consider anything the Fed government does as allowed under that clause, but in the case of home made firearms it has not actually been tested in court yet.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on April 11, 2022, 12:43:52 PM
Not entirely true. The whole reason current Federal laws only apply to FFL's is they can claim that is interstate commerce and thus they Fed government can put regulations on FFL's. This was recognized at the time, which is why the regulations work that way. The reason I said I don't trust SCOTUS is that they usually consider anything the Fed government does as allowed under that clause, but in the case of home made firearms it has not actually been tested in court yet.

I don't agree that current Federal laws only apply to FFL's, as evidenced by things that are federal felonies for you - as an individual - to do at home.  Suppressors, auto-sears, etc.

I suppose that the particular situation of homemade firearms hasn't been tested in a supreme court case, but I don't see how it's any different than the established case law where individuals are prohibited from doing things, privately, for themselves, by themselves under the authority of the interstate commerce clause.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2022, 12:52:17 PM
It appears the new ATF chief nominee has a bit of support from LE and some Republicans. From what I have read about him, he doesn't seem any better than Chipman.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/law-enforcement-bipartisan-prosecutors-back-biden-atf-pick
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MikeB on April 11, 2022, 01:18:16 PM
I don't agree that current Federal laws only apply to FFL's, as evidenced by things that are federal felonies for you - as an individual - to do at home.  Suppressors, auto-sears, etc.

I suppose that the particular situation of homemade firearms hasn't been tested in a supreme court case, but I don't see how it's any different than the established case law where individuals are prohibited from doing things, privately, for themselves, by themselves under the authority of the interstate commerce clause.

Just look at the ways the laws currently are, they are all based around the Fed government not having the power to place laws on firearms that are not part of interstate commerce. The NFA stuff is under an exception for unusually dangerous stuff, not the exact legal term, but close enough. I disagree with it, but that is the current state.

Legal to make your own firearm for your own use including without serial number is currently legal - no interstate commerce.
Intrastate transfers don't have to follow Federal Law, some allow transfer of long guns, some pistols, some none. Up to the state. - no interstate commerce.

There are other examples, the reason these are setup the way they are is that the Federal government recognized at the time they could not legally control this stuff. Of course SCOTUS will continue to screw us most likely once it does get tested by them, but as of now, it isn't legal for Federal government to control this stuff.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: T.O.M. on April 11, 2022, 07:40:09 PM
I think this discussion may explain why biden talked extensively about kits being ordered and delivered to people at home.  That would put them into interstate commerce, as opposed to a 3D home printed gun.  Wonder if the DOJ attorneys told them that data transfers of plans are not interstate commerce. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on April 11, 2022, 08:13:11 PM
If it's not a kit is it ok or are they going to want numbers on every part?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on April 11, 2022, 08:25:17 PM
One analysis I saw seemed to think this rule could.be stretched to require sn#s on slides and frames on semiauto pistols.
Any rumblings coming from our side about lawsuits yet?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
One analysis I saw seemed to think this rule could.be stretched to require sn#s on slides and frames on semiauto pistols.
Any rumblings coming from our side about lawsuits yet?

I just saw GOA is getting ready to drop a suit. The GOA attorney also said that the wording of this could enfold uppers and even individual parts.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 11, 2022, 09:13:02 PM
I just saw GOA is getting ready to drop a suit. The GOA attorney also said that the wording of this could enfold uppers and even individual parts.

Not only "could" -- if you read the intro to the rule, it's clear that they want to clean up the problem of whether the upper or lower part of the receiver is "the" firearm in an AR-15. It's an easy read -- only 364 pages of legalese.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download

Quote
However, a restrictive application of these definitions would not describe the frame or receiver of most firearms currently in circulation in the United States.  Most modern weapon designs, including semiautomatic rifles and pistols with detachable magazines, have a split or multi-piece receiver where the relevant fire control components are housed by more than one part of the weapon (e.g., the upper receiver and lower receiver of an AR-15 rifle), or incorporate a striker to fire the weapon, rather than a hammer.
...
For these many reasons, ATF is promulgating a rule that would bring clarity to the def inition of “frame or receiver” by providing an updated, more comprehensive definition.  On May 21, 2021, the Department published a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (“NPRM”) in the Federal Register, 86 FR 27720, proposing to redefine the term “frame or receiver” as that which provides housing or a structure to hold or integrate one or more fire control components.  In light of the comments received, this final rule revises the proposed definition of “frame or receiver” so that a “frame” is applicable to a handgun, and variants thereof, and a “receiver” is applicable to a rifle, shotgun, or projectile weapon other than a handgun, and variants thereof.  Moreover, “frame or receiver” will be defined to describe only a single part that provides housing or a structure for one specific, primary fire control component of weapons that expel a projectile, or one specific, primary internal sound reduction component of firearm mufflers or silencers. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on April 11, 2022, 09:45:42 PM
Armed Attorneys are suggesting that current arms will be grandfathered, but after the rule goes into effect, all uppers afterwards will potentially become a firearm.

Quote
Fugettaboutit
Pinned by Armed Attorneys
Fugettaboutit
29 minutes ago
So according to the ATF's released ruling, AR upper receivers will stay the same at least for the time being.  A la, don't need to be serialized.  But is that only for the time being and 'grandfathered' existing stock...with all uppers needing to be serialized at a certain date forward?  Or will it always be the same way it was?

2

Armed Attorneys

Armed Attorneys
Armed Attorneys
19 minutes ago
Correct. Rule has been released- we have a bit more info. There is a grandfather clause for existing items. The serialized upper requirement would only apply to future component-receivers and firearm-receivers after the rule goes into effect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1LAe9wgY0
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on April 11, 2022, 09:46:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lwr5s5AMsU

Not really many changes. No more build-buy-shoot kits, FFLs must put serial numbers on "ghost guns" that come through their possession, crack down on form 1 suppressors, no changes to AR serial numbers, 80% still available and you don't need SN on a gun you built.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 11, 2022, 09:55:56 PM
Assuming GOP can take the House this year, and take the Senate by 2025, fixing this legislatively could be a huge campaign issue for 2024 candidates. Whether they follow through if they win is a different story, naturally...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on April 11, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
I can’t count the number of times I hear some idiot in person say “Well I have guns but they are/aren’t registered with the police department” it makes me want to scream WE DON’T HAVE REGISTRATION YOU *expletive deleted*ing IDIOT

I've always been of the opinion that the 4473 is a back-door/under the covers registration.  Paperwork that's never destroyed.  Paperwork that can be used to trace ownership, through numerous owners in some instances
.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 11, 2022, 11:12:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lwr5s5AMsU

Not really many changes. No more build-buy-shoot kits, FFLs must put serial numbers on "ghost guns" that come through their possession, crack down on form 1 suppressors, no changes to AR serial numbers, 80% still available and you don't need SN on a gun you built.

May be just me but I find it hard to take someone seriously who wears their hat backwards
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 11, 2022, 11:50:02 PM

Not really many changes. No more build-buy-shoot kits, FFLs must put serial numbers on "ghost guns" that come through their possession, crack down on form 1 suppressors, no changes to AR serial numbers, 80% still available and you don't need SN on a gun you built.

It's 364 pages. I find it hard to believe that even the feral government can spend 364 pages on "Not really many changes."

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 12, 2022, 01:44:24 PM
I have most of the parts for my first P80 build. I don't know if having a serial number stamped or engraved is something gun stores do or not, but I was hoping to use a relevant scripture reference number as a "serial number." Really just as a proof of ownership.

Now I'm thinking a better "serial number" might be CANT_TRACE_THIS.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on April 12, 2022, 06:28:39 PM
I have most of the parts for my first P80 build. I don't know if having a serial number stamped or engraved is something gun stores do or not, but I was hoping to use a relevant scripture reference number as a "serial number." Really just as a proof of ownership.

Now I'm thinking a better "serial number" might be CANT_TRACE_THIS.

LK2236 was your plan?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Viking on April 12, 2022, 06:36:16 PM
Time to learn how to make your own slides and uppers and barrels too*, people. You know what's coming next.

*difficulty level: no mill or lathe may be used. Drill press, welder, various power tools and workshop hydraulic presses are allowed.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 12, 2022, 08:32:24 PM
Easy Peasy.

EDM rifle the barrel, weld up a blowback bolt, and run it in a printed or square tube reciever.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Viking on April 12, 2022, 08:35:51 PM
Easy Peasy.

EDM rifle the barrel, weld up a blowback bolt, and run it in a printed or square tube reciever.
I've been thinking up how to make a slide for a locked breech pistol with minimal tools. Would be similar to Professor Parabellum's. I've also seen AR15 uppers made from round tube...making the internals might be trickier.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 12, 2022, 08:35:59 PM
LK2236 was your plan?

Obvi
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Viking on April 12, 2022, 08:39:07 PM
Easy Peasy.

EDM rifle the barrel, weld up a blowback bolt, and run it in a printed or square tube reciever.
Also I was suggesting rifle caliber long guns and locked breech pistols. Making a .32 or .380 pistol is simple enough, ditto with open bolt subguns. But I have yet to see fully improvised/DIY options for rifle caliber long guns or locked breech pistols.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on April 12, 2022, 08:58:01 PM
Most of the fully DIY guns are 9mm.  There's no reason why a 9mm or 45 blowback can't  be done, but I get your point.

A locked breech pistol is kinda hard to do without a mill or *expletive deleted*it-ton of hand fitting, and since a lot of the DIY gun community is in the US with easy access to slides, no one really bothers.

J. Stark might have, but it's moot now.

Short of a kyber pass style hand built you probably  aren't going to see the guns you are talking  about built without at least some machine tools.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Cliffh on April 12, 2022, 09:11:29 PM
Time to learn how to make your own slides and uppers and barrels too*, people. You know what's coming next.

*difficulty level: no mill or lathe may be used. Drill press, welder, various power tools and workshop hydraulic presses are allowed.

What kind of accuracy are you looking for?  Man sized target at 10' (hit anywhere on the black) or 1" at 100 yards?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 12, 2022, 10:39:33 PM
A bit of twisting of the facts in parts but something to keep an eye on

Mexico's fight to sue US gun manufacturers for $10bn
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61073823
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on April 12, 2022, 11:19:34 PM
A bit of twisting of the facts in parts but something to keep an eye on

Mexico's fight to sue US gun manufacturers for $10bn
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61073823

How many of those guns that “flowed south” and wound up at crime scenes were originally sold to the Mexican military or various law enforcement agencies?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 12, 2022, 11:25:28 PM
A bit of twisting of the facts in parts but something to keep an eye on

Mexico's fight to sue US gun manufacturers for $10bn
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61073823

Hmmm ...

Quote
"The security measures implemented on the border are almost a joke," said Ed Calderon, a former police officer in Tijuana, just across from California, and an expert on Mexico's criminal underworld.

"The border is porous," he said. "People - it could even be old women and men - walk or drive across the border on a daily basis and can amass a stockpile that would rival any Texas gun show. It's easy to get a gun or rifle in Mexico."

And how is your inability (or unwillingness) to control your own border the fault of Smith & Wesson or Colt?

Besides, isn't it illegal for people in Mexico to own guns?

Quote
Mexico's National Guard - which is largely responsible for stemming the flow of weapons into Mexico - could not be reached for comment. Mexican officials at various levels of government, however, have repeatedly vowed to clamp down on the flow of weapons coming across the border, referring to the effort as a "national priority".

Yeah, the National Guard doesn't want to comment because they're probably the biggest gun smuggling ring in the country.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on April 21, 2022, 09:46:52 AM
More lets completely ignore the actual cause of the problem

Quote
“Day after day, members of our New Jersey family are being shot and killed,” Murphy said during an event at Saint Luke Baptist Church, attending by a number of other Democratic officials. “It’s outrageous their state government in Trenton is not doing everything they can to stem this violence.”
Quote
The proposals would change how firearm owners in the state are required to store their guns, ban the future sales of .50 caliber guns in the state, increase the age people can buy shotguns and rifles in the state from 18 to 21, mandate gun dealers in the state keep logs of ammunition sales, among other moves. …

Murphy: New Jersey’s Legislature Hasn’t Been Nearly Tough Enough On Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/murphy-new-jerseys-legislature-hasnt-been-nearly-tough-enough-on-guns/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 06:37:23 PM
JSD got a cease and desist over their 80% kits

 BREAKING NEWS: ATF Serves JSD Supply a Cease & Desist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D11MwsnjkXU
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 12, 2022, 07:47:04 PM
Our tax dollars at work -- enforcing a new rule that won't take effect for another three+ months.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 07:55:35 PM
Our tax dollars at work -- enforcing a new rule that won't take effect for another three+ months.

Video says ATF said it's because they sell both kits and parts on the same website.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 16, 2022, 10:06:15 AM
FFL revocations up more than 500% under Biden

Quote
Before the Biden-Harris administration took over the White House, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives usually revoked an average of 40 Federal Firearm Licenses (FFLs) per year. But, in the 11 months since Joe Biden declared war on “rogue gun dealers,” the ATF has revoked 273 FFLs – an increase of more than 500%. However, rather than targeting the true rogues, Biden’s ATF is revoking FFLs for the most minor of paperwork errors, which were never a concern for the ATF until Biden weaponized the agency.

ATF: Gun Shop License Revocations Up a Staggering 500%!?
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/05/atf-ffl-revocations-up-a-staggering-500/#axzz7TSYPUgxJ

Under Biden: Rate of FFL Revocations UP 500%!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqGcDHbHdwQ
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2022, 10:09:21 AM
FFL revocations up more than 500% under Biden

Interesting that according to the article, the ATF is not happy about this either. DOJ appears to be going off the reservation (with a wink from Joe).
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 16, 2022, 10:15:27 AM
Interesting that according to the article, the ATF is not happy about this either. DOJ appears to be going off the reservation (with a wink from Joe).

Ministry of Safely
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on May 16, 2022, 11:45:47 AM

Besides, isn't it illegal for people in Mexico to own guns?


No... it is difficult to get guns legally in Mexico, but it not illegal altogether.  The state has a legal monopoly on gun sales.  There is one legal gun store in the country and it is run by the army.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on May 16, 2022, 11:48:05 AM
No... it is difficult to get guns legally in Mexico, but it not illegal altogether.  The state has a legal monopoly on gun sales.  There is one legal gun store in the country and it is run by the army.
At least all those gun control measures keeps gun crime low, though.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 19, 2022, 04:13:59 PM
TTAG has picked up the story

Biden Pulls a Trump Card – Rare Breed FRT-15 Trigger Now Classified as a Machine Gun
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-pulls-a-trump-card-rare-breed-frt-15-trigger-now-classified-as-a-machine-gun/

If you own one the ATF will be contacting you and you should either destroy it, and provide photo evidence, or turn it over to the ATF

UPDATE: Rarebreed vs ATF & What ATF Says FRT 15 Owners Should Do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l131Jw_S6A0

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 19, 2022, 05:48:52 PM
‘Ghost’ busters: Illinois becomes first state in Midwest to ban untraceable do-it-yourself ‘ghost guns’
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/5/18/23125377/illinois-becomes-first-state-in-midwest-to-ban-unmarked-untraceable-ghost-guns

Quote
“A child should not be able to build an AR-15 like they’re building a toy truck. A convicted domestic abuser should not be able to evade scrutiny by using a 3D printer to make a gun,” Pritzker said at the bill signing in St. Sabina Church’s gymnasium, surrounded by Mayor Lori Lightfoot, Chicago Police Supt. David Brown and community leaders.

A child  :facepalm:

Quote
Under the law, people who own gun kits would have to get them stamped with serial numbers within 180 days of the effective date of the law.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 10:05:59 AM
Cory Booker wants to require you to get a license from the DOJ before you can buy or receive a gun

Quote
Democrats have not leaned into gun control measures in the wake of the racist shooter’s deadly attack in Buffalo over the weekend, but Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) is taking on the issue despite long legislative odds. Booker, along with Sens. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) and Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), is introducing legislation today that would require people trying to get a firearm to get a license from the Department of Justice before they can buy or receive a gun.

The DOJ license would require both a written firearm safety test and hands-on training, a criminal background check and submission of fingerprints and proof of identity. The license would only be available to people over 21 years of age, essentially raising the age of gun ownership to 21.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/oh-hell-no-dem-senators-bill-would-require-doj-approval-before-americans-can-buy-guns/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 20, 2022, 10:08:00 AM
Cory Booker wants to require you to get a license from the DOJ before you can buy or receive a gun

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/oh-hell-no-dem-senators-bill-would-require-doj-approval-before-americans-can-buy-guns/

So if you even got approved, probably a good five years to get your "permit".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 20, 2022, 12:03:14 PM
Cory Booker can eat a bag of male genitalia
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 20, 2022, 02:52:37 PM
[clears throat]

[scans democrat rallies and protest pics]

Ah yes, here it is.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UE9_LpWeB5U/WZiZ4aKxOiI/AAAAAAAAEos/RbAS-bjjdYU9Cty4QxDkHcKvJGuOl7YwwCLcBGAs/s1600/Berkeley-Riot-Ungovernable-900.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 24, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
See what happens now
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 25, 2022, 11:01:24 PM
KM Tactical got hit with a cease & desist over their 80% kits

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxzerW_QVPLbzhpMiQlOhU3x4mSI9Ia_zK
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Andiron on May 25, 2022, 11:04:14 PM
[clears throat]

[scans democrat rallies and protest pics]

Ah yes, here it is.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UE9_LpWeB5U/WZiZ4aKxOiI/AAAAAAAAEos/RbAS-bjjdYU9Cty4QxDkHcKvJGuOl7YwwCLcBGAs/s1600/Berkeley-Riot-Ungovernable-900.jpg)

Something about terms being acceptable.  They want to go,  let's do it.  I'm sick of their existence.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 25, 2022, 11:17:25 PM
I will not comply.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 31, 2022, 04:33:45 PM
"Protecting our Kids Act"

Bill
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20220602/114852/BILLS-117-HR-N000002-Amdt-1.pdf

Raises min purchase age for semi autos with a capacity > 5rds
Large cap magazines restrictions (10rds) and buys backs
Requirement that all firearms be traceable
Closes the "Bump Stock Loophole" (?)
Prohibition on straw purchases (already illegal)
Safe storage (A fine and you forfeit the firearm if violated)


House committee eyes Thursday vote for wide-ranging gun control legislation
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/31/politics/house-bill-gun-control/index.html

 BREAKING: HUGE Gun Control Package Moves Forward
https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=114852
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 31, 2022, 04:37:02 PM
Should add an amendment that repeals GCA and NFA. That should kill it dead.

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 31, 2022, 04:57:23 PM
Looking at the bump stock def section it appears binary triggers and similar would be lumped in with bump stocks and thus illegal. Guess that "explains" loophole.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 31, 2022, 05:00:16 PM
Still examining

All "high" cap magazines manufactured after this bill must have serial numbers

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on May 31, 2022, 05:02:12 PM
Lets see... looks like we're expanding the definition of a frame or receiver to encompass AR uppers.  Also looks like we're calling 80%'s a "receiver"  Frame or receiver includes: casting or machined bodies that requires modification, including machining, drilling, filing or molding, to be used as part of a functional firearm, and which is designed and intended to be used in the assembly of a functional firearm.

Looks like were killing off home manufacturing. 

Also this could bone NFA supressor builds and the like: It shall be unlawful for a person other than a licensed manufacturer or importer to engrave or cast a serial number on a firearm in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce unless specifically authorized by the Attorney General.

This looks like existing home builds will become illegal if not serialized:
Beginning on the date that is 30 months after the date of enactment of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed manufacturer or importer to knowingly possess a ghost gun in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce.

Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this paragraph, the Attorney General shall prescribe regulations for engraving a unique serial number onto a ghost gun.

Looks like existing jigs, fixtures and the like for finishing 80% builds will become illegal. 
Except as provided in subparagraph (A), beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed manufacturer to possess, purchase, or receive, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a machine that has the sole or primary function of manufacturing firearms.

There's a section that requires safe storage around minors or ineligible persons.  With criminal penalties and forfeiture.

Some state bribes with money.
For each of fiscal years 2023 through 2027, the Attorney General shall give affirmative preference to all Bureau of Justice Assistance discretionary grant applications of a State or Indian Tribe that has enacted legislation functionally identical to section 922(z)(4) of title 18, United States Code.’’.

Closing down any psudo-machineguns.

10rd mag caps with grandfather clause, also looks like maybe transfers of existing normal mags are restricted?  And grant money to purchase privately held ones.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 31, 2022, 05:07:58 PM
I haven't looked at the whole thing yet, so I won't panic yet. There may be some obviously unconstitutional stuff that will kill it at the gate.

That said, dammit, I saw a Memoria lDay sale on Gen2 Pmags for $9.99 and was thinking, "I've got plenty, but that's what I said about ammo a month before that blew up." Perhaps I should have bought ten or twenty. I'll be interested looking around over the next couple of days to see what's happening with mags.

That five round limit is gonna be DOA. Otherwise good lawyers could argue revolvers will be illegal.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on May 31, 2022, 05:10:30 PM
Quote
Meanwhile, the International Association of Chiefs of Police and the Fraternal Order of Police sent a letter on Friday to Republican and Democratic leadership in the House and Senate offering to help work on gun measures.

Yeah, the cop groups can *expletive deleted*ck right off. They're all going to have exemptions, so they can sit this out.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 31, 2022, 05:24:58 PM
Appears instead of going after "assault weapons" directly they're going after their magazines probably in an attempt to limit political damage before the midterms and to give the appearance to the left they're doing something . Then if they survive the midterms they'll go for the rest.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on May 31, 2022, 06:04:56 PM
They think an assault weapon ban will fail in the courts.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on May 31, 2022, 06:06:47 PM
They think an assault weapon ban will fail in the courts.

Since when has that stopped them?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 31, 2022, 06:14:10 PM
Quote
That five round limit is gonna be DOA. Otherwise good lawyers could argue revolvers will be illegal.

That's a feature, not a bug.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on May 31, 2022, 06:18:30 PM
They think an assault weapon ban will fail in the courts.

And AW ban has never failed in the courts.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 01, 2022, 04:49:47 AM
And AW ban has never failed in the courts.

True, but we have some more case law now.

As is always the case with politicians look at what they are doing, not saying.  They have their lapdogs in the news talking about right wing extremist courts, and they've stopped even talking seriously about AWBs. Even Biden, Mr. I'm the only one to go to to toe and beat the NRA said he can't  ban an entire type of weapon.

They don't  want case law on what "In common use" really means. At least not until SCOTUS really changes it's makeup.

Home made firearms and mags are much lower hanging fruit.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 01, 2022, 09:12:55 AM
Not going anywhere at the moment with zero co-sponsors but bears watching

H.R.7544 - To provide a private right of action against the maker of any component of a ghost gun, and any person who facilitated a sale of the ghost gun, for injury or death resulting from the use of the ghost gun.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7544/text?r=1&s=1

"Any Component"

Ban On Parts Submitted!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dejv8y0rT3M
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 01, 2022, 10:16:20 AM
Very little of this Federal stuff has been hitting the MSM. They seem to be focusing on covering legislation in places like New York, where it appears that among other things, a body armor ban is "a sure thing".

Whether anything passes or not, once this hits the MSM, I suspect a lot of prices are going through the roof. I don't necessarily need more right now, but I just order more 5.56 and .300BLK mags while the prices are still normal. If they sit in the gun closet for ten years, that's fine.

I might even order some Level IV plates. Just because.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 01, 2022, 10:19:47 AM
Very little of this Federal stuff has been hitting the MSM. They seem to be focusing on covering legislation in places like New York, where it appears

Almost as if they don't want you to know what your betters are doing for your own good in congress.  [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 01, 2022, 10:42:12 AM
GOA has been sending legislative action alerts.  Yesterday was a link to contact my Senators.  I assume trying to head off attempts at compromise.  I am sure there are better ways to wipe out the Republicans advantage this Fall, but not many.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 01, 2022, 11:25:59 AM
Do you all think we are getting another ammo buying freak out again?   :mad:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 01, 2022, 11:29:43 AM
Do you all think we are getting another ammo buying freak out again?   :mad:

Yep.

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 01, 2022, 12:05:46 PM
I haven't seen any federal legislation regarding ammo. Did I miss it (quite possible)?

Surprising, actually, that they wouldn't try for some quantity caps, or like CA, eliminate mail order.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 01, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
National red flag bill is being pushed

 BREAKING: Senators WAY TOO CLOSE On National Red Flag Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw8OMmjIhY

Think it's this one.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2377/text

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 01, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
I'm going to predict right now that Rs will cave on minimum age of 21 and red flag laws as "reasonable compromises". I don't like either, but dislike the red flag laws the most. Very dangerous.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 01, 2022, 06:33:48 PM
I'm going to predict right now that Rs will cave on minimum age of 21 and red flag laws as "reasonable compromises". I don't like either, but dislike the red flag laws the most. Very dangerous.

The basic idea of a red flag law is good.  If someone you know well is behaving in a way that a reasonable person would think is a significant risk to themselves or others then having a means to intervene before tragedy strikes is great.  But, like so many times, a good idea quickly get corrupted and at best it becomes a useless law, and at worst gives political enemies a means to cripple the opposition. 

I think to tame that abuse potential there should be some mechanism to hold accountable those that abuse red flag laws.  In theory my sister (a very anti-gun lefty) could call in an ERPO on me even though we barely talk to each other every couple of years.  If she wanted the upper hand in, say, division of our parent’s estate after they pass and she used an erpo to get that I should be able to take her to the cleaners in a lawsuit.  And/or she should become subject to whatever term in prison I faced. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 01, 2022, 09:08:16 PM
Show me actual due process before confiscating any property and VERY severe penalties (huge fines and felony level jail time) for false/malicious reports and I'll start listening.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 01, 2022, 09:43:05 PM
The basic idea of a red flag law is good.

I disagree.  The basic idea is that the government can strip you of your rights based on an accusation.  In modern history, gun rights have always been treated as a fake right.  That should change.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 03, 2022, 01:31:58 PM
Get a load of this jackass General (ret):

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/03/hope-you-get-that-sweet-msnbc-gig-youre-vying-for-maj-gen-ret-paul-eaton-torched-for-thread-claiming-an-ar-15-is-a-weapon-of-war/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 03, 2022, 02:02:04 PM
 [popcorn]

Quote
    We need to:

    Ban assault weapons — and if we can’t, then we should raise the age to purchase them from 18 to 21.

    Ban high-capacity magazines.

    Strengthen background checks.

    Enact safe storage laws and red flag laws.

    Repeal gun manufacturers’ immunity from liability.

    — President Biden (@POTUS) June 2, 2022
Quote
    Your crackhead son lied on a federal background check form so he could illegally buy a gun.

    I don’t want to hear a word from you on gun laws until your deadbeat, crackhead, porn-addled gun criminal son Hunter is behind bars. https://t.co/gLHuQokKGS

    — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) June 3, 2022

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/03/your-crackhead-son-lied-so-he-could-illegally-buy-a-gun-sean-davis-just-annihilates-biden-for-tweet-pushing-new-gun-laws/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 03, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
Americans have a right to own weapons of war.  That is exactly why the Second was written.  Every court case regarding that addressed what weapons we have a right to own from the beginning of the country to US versus Miller made it clear that weapons that are part of the ordinary military equipment are protected.  Most of these cases involved state RKBA provisions.

I even recall a court case from Texas that specified cannons as protected weapons.

This is an actual fact of history, not my opinion.

An exhaustive treatment of RKBA in the 18th century can be found here:

https://davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/19thcentury.htm#III.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 03, 2022, 02:20:53 PM
The basic idea of a red flag law is good.  If someone you know well is behaving in a way that a reasonable person would think is a significant risk to themselves or others then having a means to intervene before tragedy strikes is great.  But, like so many times, a good idea quickly get corrupted and at best it becomes a useless law, and at worst gives political enemies a means to cripple the opposition. 

I think to tame that abuse potential there should be some mechanism to hold accountable those that abuse red flag laws.  In theory my sister (a very anti-gun lefty) could call in an ERPO on me even though we barely talk to each other every couple of years.  If she wanted the upper hand in, say, division of our parent’s estate after they pass and she used an erpo to get that I should be able to take her to the cleaners in a lawsuit.  And/or she should become subject to whatever term in prison I faced.
I agree with the responses. 

The idea that someone can get help or intervention doesn't seem like a bad thing, but it should be done by friends or close relatives if at all.  Using the law enforcement system to do that is never going to work and will always be overbearing and oppressive. 

Look at the older guy who was killed by police when he decided he didn't want to let them in?  No matter how many protections are put in place, stuff like that could still happen.  Even if you could be informed of a red flag hearing and attend to defend yourself, is that really something that should happen in a free country?  If you have done nothing criminal, you should be left alone.  Also, I have come across plenty of people who are excitable or don't communicate the best and would have difficulty defending themselves if cops came around to question them or a judge started grilling them.  They shouldn't have to go through that just because some well meaning person (or not well meaning) reported them. 

It wasn't that long ago we discussed an event in Georgia where a father was shot through an outside window by a cop who was lurking around the house and got the dogs barking.  The daughter's ex-husband's mother called in a false report after which the police decided to search around the house and peak through windows instead of knocking.  Anytime the police get involved, there are going to a percentage of bad incidents. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 03, 2022, 02:24:33 PM
Yeah.

It seems that the easiest way to get an unruly family member killed is to call the police to "help" them.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 03, 2022, 02:33:08 PM
Some people have had enough.

(https://media.communities.win/post/STvi5tFR8O7P.jpeg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JTHunter on June 03, 2022, 02:35:20 PM
Yesterday was a link to contact my Senators.

Considering that IL-ANNOY's senators are backing this garbage, contacting them is an exercise in futility.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 03, 2022, 05:15:13 PM
Some amusing takes here:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/03/dude-read-the-bible-gun-grabber-learns-the-hard-way-his-take-on-jesus-not-owning-firearms-is-not-the-gotcha-he-thought-it-was/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 03, 2022, 06:13:43 PM
Considering that IL-ANNOY's senators are backing this garbage, contacting them is an exercise in futility.
The GOA contact forms just take a minute.  Yeah, your Reps might be rabidly anti-gun, OR they might be supporting it because a few more people asked them to.  IMO, they pay attention to the emails and calls even if it is just to tally up the numbers.  I wouldn't dismiss it too easily. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JTHunter on June 04, 2022, 12:12:12 AM
The GOA contact forms just take a minute.  Yeah, your Reps might be rabidly anti-gun, OR they might be supporting it because a few more people asked them to.  IMO, they pay attention to the emails and calls even if it is just to tally up the numbers.  I wouldn't dismiss it too easily.

Unfortunately, IL-ANNOY's senators are "Tricky Dicky" Durbin and Tammy Duckworth(less).  Durbin drank the Brady "Flavor-Aide" years ago.  [barf]
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 04, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Unfortunately, IL-ANNOY's senators are "Tricky Dicky" Durbin and Tammy Duckworth(less).  Durbin drank the Brady "Flavor-Aide" years ago.  [barf]

They’re just as bad as my Senators (Murray, who is easily one of the stupidest senators in history, and Cantwell). 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 04, 2022, 10:11:45 AM
Quote
An increasingly mainstream message of gun maximalists is that the *reason* to be armed is so that you can use violence or the threat of it to get your way in the political sphere, basically:"People in government need to worry we'll pump their bodies full of lead if they cross us"

"Gun maximalists". Are they cousins to ultra MAGAs?

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/06/04/msnbcs-chris-hayes-trips-over-the-founders-while-slamming-deranged-interpretation-of-the-2nd-amendment/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 04, 2022, 02:51:35 PM
The idea that the Constitution was written to give the government a monopoly on violence 180 degrees opposite to what it actually says.  Of course the Second was written so regular joes could shoot agents of the state.  That is exactly who the Americans had been fighting for seven years!

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 04, 2022, 03:25:07 PM
Show me actual due process before confiscating any property and VERY severe penalties (huge fines and felony level jail time) for false/malicious reports and I'll start listening.

Their argument is that being allowed to argue -- two weeks after the confiscation -- that you should get your guns back is sufficient due process.

I don't agree, but apparently state courts in some states that already have these laws have bought into that, hook, line, and sinker.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 05, 2022, 02:55:07 PM
1,000% tax on "assault" weapons

A House Democrat plans to introduce a bill that would hit AR-15's with a 1,000% tax — and it could pass Congress without GOP votes
https://www.businessinsider.com/democrat-ar-15-rifles-tax-congress-gun-control-biden-administration-2022-6
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 05, 2022, 03:36:27 PM
1,000% tax on "assault" weapons

A House Democrat plans to introduce a bill that would hit AR-15's with a 1,000% tax — and it could pass Congress without GOP votes
https://www.businessinsider.com/democrat-ar-15-rifles-tax-congress-gun-control-biden-administration-2022-6

I was just gonna post that. Can you imagine $20K ARs? How about when they really wanna get rid of combustion engine cars and a Toyota Corolla costs $100K after taxes?  I'm only a layman, but this has to be illegal/unconstitutional?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 05, 2022, 03:43:11 PM
The NRA's fault.  ;/

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/05/they-both-strappin-cellphone-video-appears-to-have-captured-the-start-of-the-mass-shooting-in-philadelphia-last-night/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 05, 2022, 03:43:31 PM
I was just gonna post that. Can you imagine $20K ARs? How about when they really wanna get rid of combustion engine cars and a Toyota Corolla costs $100K after taxes?  I'm only a layman, but this has to be illegal/unconstitutional?

If it’s not unconstitutional it should be.  1000% tax is an effective ban.  Until they stack SCOTUS we might have a chance striking it down, if it gets passed.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HeroHog on June 05, 2022, 05:50:29 PM
Can you imagine all those who currently own ARs/AKs and/or own other "toys" and might take exception to such shenanigans? I bet they outnumber the military and and possibly police as well.

Glad I just acquired 2 33 round "giggle sticks" for my G19 to go with the 2 factory mags I already had. Hope paying $20 for the pair, NIB, wasn't too much.  =D  :old:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 05, 2022, 06:54:20 PM
Chris Murphy claims there won't be an "assault weapon" ban. That may be true, given what it would do to dems in November.

He suggests that red flag laws will be a shoe-in with plenty of R votes. I would not be surprised. Red Flag laws are the kinds of things establishment Rs love, in the same vein as the Patriot Act, etc. "Drop the hammer" legislation with no regard for unintended consequences and/or innocent or minor offenders getting the full hammer blow.

If there were an avenue to punish false accusers, it wouldn't be as bad, but like Title IX, we'll be seeing lots of innocent people's lives destroyed with zero repercussions for false and malicious accusers.

Note that the link below doesn't mention red flag laws, but when I read the story this morning, they had red flag laws in it. It has apparently been edited since.

https://www.businessinsider.com/murphy-bipartisan-gun-reform-no-assault-weapons-ban-background-checks-2022-6
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 05, 2022, 07:34:48 PM
If it’s not unconstitutional it should be.  1000% tax is an effective ban.  Until they stack SCOTUS we might have a chance striking it down, if it gets passed.

The SC hasn't bothered to even hear one of the many possible court cases on state AW bans over years.  None of these have been overturned (permanently) by lower courts.

We will see soon if Amy Barrett is going to make any difference.  John Roberts would vote against us for sure.

Given how pathetic the court has been on guns for a decade, I don't think they are going to overturn any of the bans or licensing schemes.  Nothing the court has done has had any effect on the large majority of the USA.  It has only effected the extreme outliers (Washington DC).  The current case we are waiting on will presumably only effect the small number of states with may-issue CCW. 

If these states are forced to go shall issue, they will probably just make it obsecenely difficult and expensive to get a permit, and stack on banned locations... and every court will think that is just fine.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MikeB on June 05, 2022, 07:50:07 PM
Chris Murphy claims there won't be an "assault weapon" ban. That may be true, given what it would do to dems in November.

He suggests that red flag laws will be a shoe-in with plenty of R votes. I would not be surprised. Red Flag laws are the kinds of things establishment Rs love, in the same vein as the Patriot Act, etc. "Drop the hammer" legislation with no regard for unintended consequences and/or innocent or minor offenders getting the full hammer blow.

If there were an avenue to punish false accusers, it wouldn't be as bad, but like Title IX, we'll be seeing lots of innocent people's lives destroyed with zero repercussions for false and malicious accusers.

Note that the link below doesn't mention red flag laws, but when I read the story this morning, they had red flag laws in it. It has apparently been edited since.

https://www.businessinsider.com/murphy-bipartisan-gun-reform-no-assault-weapons-ban-background-checks-2022-6

Supposedly the Red Flag law will be one of those we won’t give the states certain moneys unless they enact certain regulations things. Even our current congress knows they can’t enact this as Fed Law. I’ve personally thought that BS was unconstitutional all along, but SCOTUS being SCOTUS.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 05, 2022, 08:18:04 PM
If wonder if Joe remembers saying this ...

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5be7dd235a05b9544754010db1274b66/a47a160264a51761-96/s1280x1920/afde5e5f3ca30b5de3b9d4b5c95bfabaa915a9e2.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 05, 2022, 10:47:55 PM
I was just gonna post that. Can you imagine $20K ARs? How about when they really wanna get rid of combustion engine cars and a Toyota Corolla costs $100K after taxes?  I'm only a layman, but this has to be illegal/unconstitutional?

I don't know at what point it becomes unconscionable, but the federal government effectively did this with machine guns in 1934.  A $200 tax on a machine gun that might cost $200.  That appears to have stood the test of time.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: JN01 on June 05, 2022, 11:50:28 PM
I don't know at what point it becomes unconscionable, but the federal government effectively did this with machine guns in 1934.  A $200 tax on a machine gun that might cost $200.  That appears to have stood the test of time.

Yep.  Congressmen at the time felt that an outright ban on certain types of guns would be an unconstitutional infringement of the 2nd Amendment. They felt that a de facto ban using taxes would hold up in the courts.  Hard to see how that is any different from Jim Crow laws pricing the exercise of other rights out of reach for certain citizens.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 05, 2022, 11:55:57 PM
I don't know at what point it becomes unconscionable, but the federal government effectively did this with machine guns in 1934.  A $200 tax on a machine gun that might cost $200.  That appears to have stood the test of time.



Google sez a Tommy-gun sold for $200 back in 1934 but the NFA tax, which frankly should have been ruled unconstitutional, and might have been overturned if Miller hadn’t died before SCOTUS heard his case, was still “only” a 100% tax for that gun.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on June 06, 2022, 12:02:37 AM
If I want to make a suppressor, I have to buy that $200 tax stamp.
 
The thing will have maybe $20 worth of material in it. Maybe.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 06, 2022, 12:12:00 AM
$20 of material translates to probably $200-300 retail. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 06, 2022, 01:19:34 AM

He suggests that red flag laws will be a shoe-in with plenty of R votes. I would not be surprised. Red Flag laws are the kinds of things establishment Rs love, in the same vein as the Patriot Act, etc. "Drop the hammer" legislation with no regard for unintended consequences and/or innocent or minor offenders getting the full hammer blow.


I think he's right. We got whacked with a red flag law two or three years ago. The Republicans in the state legislature fell all over themselves voting for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 06, 2022, 07:14:02 AM
1,000% tax on "assault" weapons

A House Democrat plans to introduce a bill that would hit AR-15's with a 1,000% tax — and it could pass Congress without GOP votes
https://www.businessinsider.com/democrat-ar-15-rifles-tax-congress-gun-control-biden-administration-2022-6
The "assault weapon" will henceforth be priced at $1. The sling it comes with - an untaxed item - will be priced at $749.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 07:51:47 AM
Google sez a Tommy-gun sold for $200 back in 1934 but the NFA tax, which frankly should have been ruled unconstitutional, and might have been overturned if Miller hadn’t died before SCOTUS heard his case, was still “only” a 100% tax for that gun.

According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$200 in 1934 = $4,315.06 in 2022

Be glad they haven't adjusted for inflation...yet
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 06, 2022, 10:35:47 AM
What’s the bigger threat right now?  Red flag laws or 30 round magazines?

I see red flag laws loosely worded to the point where anyone can raise a warning and get your guns confiscated.  Due process out the window and years of legal fighting to get your guns back.

The above is a win/win for the left. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 10:42:22 AM
What’s the bigger threat right now?  Red flag laws or 30 round magazines?

I see red flag laws loosely worded to the point where anyone can raise a warning and get your guns confiscated.  Due process out the window and years of legal fighting to get your guns back.

The above is a win/win for the left.

Red flag by far
10rd mag restrictions aren't going to have that big of effect no matter how much screaming is done over them.
Red Flag laws on the other hand open the door to being abused out the arse by anyone from the Karen next door to the govt.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 06, 2022, 11:14:30 AM
Red flag by far
10rd mag restrictions aren't going to have that big of effect no matter how much screaming is done over them.
Red Flag laws on the other hand open the door to being abused out the arse by anyone from the Karen next door to the govt.

Agreed.

Brad
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 06, 2022, 11:16:22 AM
Yep.  Congressmen at the time felt that an outright ban on certain types of guns would be an unconstitutional infringement of the 2nd Amendment. They felt that a de facto ban using taxes would hold up in the courts.  Hard to see how that is any different from Jim Crow laws pricing the exercise of other rights out of reach for certain citizens.

The justification for using taxing power was that under the 10th Amendment there was no power for the feds to regulate guns.  There is a federal power to "tax" to raise revenue.  They didn't care about the Second Amendment.  Back then the 10th Ammendment wasn't quite as dead as it is now.  Recall a new constitutional amendment was needed for Prohibition?

Of course, you are right about everything else- it is unconstitutional, given the tax isn't to raise revenue, but rather to screw over our rights.  But that doesn't stop congress anyway.  Expecting the judges appointed by the Federal government to limit its power in any meaningful way has not worked out.

The Constitution appears to have been a horrible mistake.  We should have stuck with the articles of confederation.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: bedlamite on June 06, 2022, 01:06:11 PM
If I want to make a suppressor, I have to buy that $200 tax stamp.
 
The thing will have maybe $20 worth of material in it. Maybe.

I remember seeing monocore "solvent traps" on Alibaba for $6.99 a while back.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 06, 2022, 01:33:03 PM
Now there is "naked Hunter Biden with an illegal gun" imagery floating around, which should help cement Brandon's gun control push hypocrisy. The link is mostly eye safe.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/06/a-naked-hunter-biden-is-there-any-other-kind-apparently-cant-help-but-further-kneecap-joe-bidens-gun-control-push/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 06, 2022, 02:01:03 PM
I remember seeing monocore "solvent traps" on Alibaba for $6.99 a while back.

The 9mm monocore on my AR-9 cost me $239.99 (+ shipping).  $200 of that was taxes.  I've seen some guntubers that did the even cheaper Chinese "fuel filters".  They'll work for pistol calibers.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 06, 2022, 02:15:07 PM
Red flag by far
10rd mag restrictions aren't going to have that big of effect no matter how much screaming is done over them.
Red Flag laws on the other hand open the door to being abused out the arse by anyone from the Karen next door to the govt.

I also agree they’ll abuse the sh*t out of the red flag law.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 06, 2022, 02:17:39 PM
Realistically, I'd expect it to be abused about as often as a Domestic Violence Protection Order is abused by a lying partner.  It's a pretty similar mechanism.

Which is to say: A fair amount, but not so much that the statistics are common knowledge.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 02:19:02 PM
GUN CONTROL UPDATE: Senator Says They Won't Get Assault Weapon Ban & MORE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKvEi1GUGKE

Just need another "incident" to turn that around.
Say sometime this week.  [tinfoil] [tinfoil] [tinfoil] [tinfoil] [tinfoil]

50 lbs of tin foil on my head is starting to hurt my neck
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 04:18:20 PM
*
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 09:34:19 PM
How about $10,000?
$20,000?

Blue-check suggests a $5,000 a gun buyback for three months, no questions asked
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/06/blue-check-suggests-a-5000-a-gun-buyback-for-three-months-no-questions-asked/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 06, 2022, 09:37:09 PM
How about $10,000?
$20,000?

Blue-check suggests a $5,000 a gun buyback for three months, no questions asked
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/06/blue-check-suggests-a-5000-a-gun-buyback-for-three-months-no-questions-asked/

You know what, if they found private money instead of taxpayer dollars and offered $5000 or $50000 per gun, I say let them knock themselves out. That's someone's personal choice.

Bloomberg is a billionaire. As the left always says about Musk and world hunger, why hasn't Bloomberg put up billions of dollars to "buy back" guns from people for $5000 a pop?

Edit: reading the link after I posted (as usual), I only mean the buyback part, not the banning and ratting people out part.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 09:40:24 PM
You know what, if they found private money instead of taxpayer dollars and offered $5000 or $50000 per gun, I say let them knock themselves out. That's someone's personal choice.

Bloomberg is a billionaire. As the left always says about Musk and world hunger, why hasn't Bloomberg put up billions of dollars to "buy back" guns from people for $5000 a pop?

Edit: reading the link after I posted (as usual), I only mean the buyback part, not the banning and ratting people out part.

I report Hunter Biden
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 06, 2022, 10:33:02 PM
How about $10,000?
$20,000?

Blue-check suggests a $5,000 a gun buyback for three months, no questions asked
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/06/blue-check-suggests-a-5000-a-gun-buyback-for-three-months-no-questions-asked/

More evidence that gun control is largely about disarming poor people.

And the rest of is making sure you don't even have a bulletproof vest for your own protection.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2022, 07:56:09 AM
"The Conversation", via Yahoo News, goes out of their way in hoop jumping to show why 18 year olds are too young, dumb, and immature to buy a gun, but not to vote. They seem to imply that voting doesn't require maturity or intelligence, and any dummy can vote, which is why that's okay.

https://news.yahoo.com/historical-psychological-reasons-why-legal-124949936.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 07, 2022, 08:42:35 AM
I report Hunter Biden

He brought it upon himself.  New photos out of him with illegal gun.  Think anything will happen to him?  Hell no.

Now back to the thread conversations..
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on June 07, 2022, 08:45:25 AM
He brought it upon himself.  New photos out of him with illegal gun.  Think anything will happen to him?  Hell no.

Now back to the thread conversations.

The only way he'd be charged with any crime is if he stops kicking back 10% for The Big Guy.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 07, 2022, 08:47:26 AM
More evidence that gun control is largely about disarming poor people.

And the rest of is making sure you don't even have a bulletproof vest for your own protection.
More renewed talk about restricting even passive protection - you're vulnerable and have to stay that way! (Don't some jurisdictions already restrict gas masks?) Before long, they'll be trying to mandate weaker doors and locks as well so LEOs can enter your home more easily.

There's no longer just an honest difference of opinion between "Left" and "Right" - the Lefties are either downright crazy or they have sinister intent. (These are not mutually exclusive characteristics.)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 07, 2022, 09:49:04 AM
You know what, if they found private money instead of taxpayer dollars and offered $5000 or $50000 per gun, I say let them knock themselves out. That's someone's personal choice.

Bloomberg is a billionaire. As the left always says about Musk and world hunger, why hasn't Bloomberg put up billions of dollars to "buy back" guns from people for $5000 a pop?

Edit: reading the link after I posted (as usual), I only mean the buyback part, not the banning and ratting people out part.

The buy back only makes sense from a "ban guns" perspective if you can just use the $5K to buy a couple more guns.  If someone was throwing around stupid money, I think I could pick up some sub-$300 guns and make a profit.  Who wouldn't turn a HiPoint into a Cabot 1911 if they could? 

Then again, this was just someone's suggestion.  People can come up with all sorts of crazy ideas to spend money when they don't have to foot the bill.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2022, 09:56:08 AM
The buy back only makes sense from a "ban guns" perspective if you can just use the $5K to buy a couple more guns.  If someone was throwing around stupid money, I think I could pick up some sub-$300 guns and make a profit.  Who wouldn't turn a HiPoint into a Cabot 1911 if they could? 

Then again, this was just someone's suggestion.  People can come up with all sorts of crazy ideas to spend money when they don't have to foot the bill.

Well, yeah. I have a few guns I'd like to trade up.  =D

A guy could do pretty good business build PSA rifles and selling them to the buyback. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 07, 2022, 10:05:13 AM
Thinks they have 58 votes with at least 2 wavering.
Takes 60 to override a filibuster

UPDATE: The Race To Red Flag & Defeating The Filibuster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYa2Alox7ng
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 07, 2022, 10:10:04 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/03/upshot/gun-control-polling-votes.html

Read more: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20220606/new-york-times-gun-control-less-popular-than-advertised#ixzz7VX9DEQwx
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

New York Times: Gun Control Less Popular Than Advertised

Quote
Read more: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20220606/new-york-times-gun-control-less-popular-than-advertised#ixzz7VXAzvqtc
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

It’s one of the most puzzling questions for Democrats in American politics: Why is the political system so unresponsive to gun violence? Expanded background checks routinely receive more than 80 percent or 90 percent support in polling. Yet gun control legislation usually gets stymied in Washington and Republicans never seem to pay a political price for their opposition.

1.  I don't think the polling is accurate as the questions asked are usually leading questions.
2.  Gun control has never equaled violence control and I think a lot of people realize that even if they can't put it into words. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2022, 10:13:32 AM
1.  I don't think the polling is accurate as the questions asked are usually leading questions.

Given how they're treated in the media, gun owners generally don't participate in the polls to begin with, even if the poll is "unbiased" enough to even poll them. The polls seem to use San Francisco and NYC as their sample populations. Just one time, they should try a poll in flyover country, excluding cities with over 50,000 population to see what the poll numbers say.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 07, 2022, 10:16:33 AM
More renewed talk about restricting even passive protection - you're vulnerable and have to stay that way! (Don't some jurisdictions already restrict gas masks?) Before long, they'll be trying to mandate weaker doors and locks as well so LEOs can enter your home more easily.

There's no longer just an honest difference of opinion between "Left" and "Right" - the Lefties are either downright crazy or they have sinister intent. (These are not mutually exclusive characteristics.)

I kinda like that they're talking about body armor bans (for us little people). It really lays bare their true intent.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2022, 10:29:50 AM
Before long, they'll be trying to mandate weaker doors and locks as well so LEOs can enter your home more easily.

Police control, man.

https://youtu.be/mkGsYEKOswU?t=51
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 07, 2022, 07:45:18 PM
Says they have 60 votes for a bill
No solid word what's in it yet

BREAKING NEWS: Gun Control Bill Has Been Drafted! They Reportedly Have 60 VOTES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcI1VNfbqVI
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 07, 2022, 08:41:39 PM
Says they have 60 votes for a bill
No solid word what's in it yet


Of course not. We'll just have to pass it to find out what's in it. ™
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 07, 2022, 08:46:10 PM
I see even Fox News has Matthew McConaughey blasted on their main page today regarding his speech at the White House, and seems to be casting him in a positive light for "sensible" reform. Which includes red flags, enhanced background checks, 21 or over, and waiting periods, which surprisingly, I hadn't heard talked about much by politicians. That's usually a favorite, though it would have done nothing in these last two incidents.

It seems to me that something distasteful will pass, given that so many establishment and squishy Rs, and non-gunny conservatives in general, want to "do something".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 07, 2022, 09:34:02 PM
Not much we can do about it until November. Just have to wait and see what GOA does about it and the voters.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 07, 2022, 10:38:52 PM
Liked the replies to this one.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/07/george-takei-shares-his-crazy-thought-about-ar-15s-and-inadvertently-spills-the-beans-about-what-gun-grabbers-are-really-after/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 08, 2022, 08:22:24 AM
Yea Matt pushed folks over the top with his bloviated speech yesterday.  Expect mag bans, red flag laws and age restrictions at the minimum….. :facepalm:

Guess I should inventory my mags that hold more than 10 rounds and see where I’m at.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 08, 2022, 09:03:27 AM
Yea Matt pushed folks over the top with his bloviated speech yesterday.  Expect mag bans, red flag laws and age restrictions at the minimum….. :facepalm:

Guess I should inventory my mags that hold more than 10 rounds and see where I’m at.
The local rag (Austin American-Statesman) put Matt's opinion piece AT THE TOP OF THE FRONT PAGE OF THEIR PAPER! I don't care if they did have a little "opinion" tag on it, it's still an editorial on the front page, not the editorial page - they're not even PRETENDING to be a "news"paper any more.

"News"paper should at least pretend to be fair and impartial . . . this paper has been doing so by having "from the left" and "from the right" columns inside on the editorial page. (Both columns are on the same page - literally and often editorially; Orange Man Bad, need more gun safety laws, etc. Go figure.)

I'm not going to renew my subscription - the only reason I don't cancel right now is because I'm pretty sure they'll mess up the refund.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 08, 2022, 09:23:56 AM
I kinda like that they're talking about body armor bans (for us little people). It really lays bare their true intent.
I sort of wonder how that kind of law would be set up.  I can see companies selling 10x14 targets with spall coatings (for safety) or soft targets for the same reason. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on June 08, 2022, 09:52:22 AM
I see even Fox News has Matthew McConaughey blasted on their main page today regarding his speech at the White House, and seems to be casting him in a positive light for "sensible" reform. Which includes red flags, enhanced background checks, 21 or over, and waiting periods, which surprisingly, I hadn't heard talked about much by politicians. That's usually a favorite, though it would have done nothing in these last two incidents.

It seems to me that something distasteful will pass, given that so many establishment and squishy Rs, and non-gunny conservatives in general, want to "do something".

I want to know why the *expletive deleted*ck a goddamn pedowood actor’s opinion is driving this *expletive deleted*it and why his *expletive deleted*ing dogshit opinion matters more than the millions upon millions of gun owners.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 08, 2022, 10:01:05 AM
I want to know why the *expletive deleted*ck a goddamn pedowood actor’s opinion is driving this *expletive deleted*it and why his *expletive deleted*ing dogshit opinion matters more than the millions upon millions of gun owners.

Because he's a good actor*. That's not a knock on your post, it's more agreement with it. He actually gave an emotionally powerful speech, and if you look at the emotion, rather than the logic, you can see why this speech is everywhere, with even people like Twitchy editors, who spend their whole day making fun of progs, talking about the good points he made.

It's actually a little scary seeing how such a speech could sway people on emotion alone.


*Though I believe he was not acting, but using his acting training. I believe he is sincere in what he is saying, even though I disagree with much of it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 10:06:08 AM
Yep, lets enact laws and run the country based on emotion.
Pretty much how we got the *expletive deleted*it show we in now.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on June 08, 2022, 10:17:18 AM
I want to know why the *expletive deleted*ck a goddamn pedowood actor’s opinion is driving this *expletive deleted*it and why his *expletive deleted*ing dogshit opinion matters more than the millions upon millions of gun owners.

Because he's a good actor*. That's not a knock on your post, it's more agreement with it. He actually gave an emotionally powerful speech, and if you look at the emotion, rather than the logic, you can see why this speech is everywhere, with even people like Twitchy editors, who spend their whole day making fun of progs, talking about the good points he made.

It's actually a little scary seeing how such a speech could sway people on emotion alone.


*Though I believe he was not acting, but using his acting training. I believe he is sincere in what he is saying, even though I disagree with much of it.

Uvalde, TX is also Matthew McConaughey's home town.  He was born there.  People think that gives him some special insight on the whole event.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 08, 2022, 10:21:16 AM
Cornyn tries to reassure the pro-2A people:

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/06/john-cornyn-texas-gun-bipartisan-uvalde/

Quote
WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, the lead GOP negotiator in the Senate’s efforts to pass bipartisan gun safety legislation, is managing expectations over what kind of bills he’s willing to get behind.

But the answer to that question isn’t going to satisfy many Democrats who are pushing for restrictions that include expanded background checks and raising the age to purchase a firearm in the wake of the devastating elementary school shooting in Uvalde.

“Targeted reforms, I think, is the way to get to where we need to go,” Cornyn said in a Senate floor speech on Monday.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 08, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
Yep, lets enact laws and run the country based on emotion.
Pretty much how we got the *expletive deleted*it show we in now.

One snippet of his speech that I saw was talking about how a girl's parents were only able to identify her body because of a shoe they recognized, which kind of plays into the, "AR15s turn people into dust" thing. That's pretty powerful for people who don't understand science.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 10:37:17 AM
One snippet of his speech that I saw was talking about how a girl's parents were only able to identify her body because of a shoe they recognized, which kind of plays into the, "AR15s turn people into dust" thing. That's pretty powerful for people who don't understand science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OswxDfzEXaU
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 11:20:29 AM
Here's the emotion we need right now
Holy cow she nails it
I doubt you'll see any of this in the MSM

 Ms. Hughes calls out calls for gun control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoUNpJtYYWU
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 08, 2022, 11:27:42 AM
Here's the emotion we need right now
Holy cow she nails it
I doubt you'll see any of this in the MSM

 Ms. Hughes calls out calls for gun control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoUNpJtYYWU

Yeah, she was good.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: charby on June 08, 2022, 11:34:03 AM
I don't think until 2023, anything new will be passed, the numbers aren't there in the Senate.

If the Dems can take control of both the house and senate, 2023-2024 will probably be a hold my beer 2 years.

At the state level, things will probably happen in the dominate blue states, probably not much in the dominate red states.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 08, 2022, 12:07:31 PM
I want to know why the *expletive deleted*ck a goddamn pedowood actor’s opinion is driving this *expletive deleted*it and why his *expletive deleted*ing dogshit opinion matters more than the millions upon millions of gun owners.

The ancient Romans had the right idea for the proper social standing and relevance for actors.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 08, 2022, 12:53:55 PM
I don't think until 2023, anything new will be passed, the numbers aren't there in the Senate.

If the Dems can take control of both the house and senate, 2023-2024 will probably be a hold my beer 2 years.

At the state level, things will probably happen in the dominate blue states, probably not much in the dominate red states.

I still believe "21 and over" is a shoe-in if nothing else is.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 08, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
I still believe "21 and over" is a shoe-in if nothing else is.

Agreed.  There's already well established cultural and legal precedent with handguns.

They should tobacco to that list too.  That'll kill the bill right quick!  :P
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 01:09:32 PM
Agreed.  There's already well established cultural and legal precedent with handguns.

They should tobacco to that list too.  That'll kill the bill right quick!  :P

And abortion.
That should trigger some howling
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 08, 2022, 02:02:52 PM
And abortion.
That should trigger some howling

And voting, getting married, enlisting, conscription ...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: charby on June 08, 2022, 02:15:34 PM
And voting, getting married, enlisting, conscription ...

gambling, signing student loans, prosecuted as an adult, ...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 02:16:36 PM
Yeah but abortion will get get them foaming at the mouth like nothing else.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: charby on June 08, 2022, 02:23:14 PM
Yeah but abortion will get get them foaming at the mouth like nothing else.

Double down with no sex change surgery or hormone treatment other than CIS gendered until 21.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 08, 2022, 02:33:03 PM
Double down with no sex change surgery or hormone treatment other than CIS gendered until 21.

How’s about we also quit using made up nonsense terms like cis-gender.  Cis and trans are descriptors for chemical isomer arrangements.  Cis means “this side of” and trans means “the other side of”.  So cis-gender literally means “this side of types/classes of nouns”. 

Following the language alterations simply empowers the left to maintain that as a source of power.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 03:09:18 PM
$100 tax on every round produced "that can be used as a round of ammunition in any multi-round weapon"
$100 tax on every one of those rounds purchased
$100 annual tax on every one of those rounds owned

A Modest Proposal: Tax Ammo at a Benjamin for Each Round
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a-modest-proposal-tax-ammo-at-a-benjamin-for-each-round/

How about a $100 tax every time a liberal opens their mouth and says something stupid?

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 08, 2022, 03:09:25 PM
How’s about we also quit using made up nonsense terms like cis-gender.  Cis and trans are descriptors for chemical isomer arrangements.  Cis means “this side of” and trans means “the other side of”.  So cis-gender literally means “this side of types/classes of nouns”. 

Following the language alterations simply empowers the left to maintain that as a source of power.

Or triple down!  Are you E or Z normative?  Do you orient R or S?   :lol:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 08, 2022, 03:12:53 PM
I contacted Senator Cornyn's office via a GOA email link a couple days ago.  This is the boiler plate response that came back within a few minutes.  I thought it might say more about "gun control compromise", but not really. 

The primary was in March.  I am pretty sure he won (I voted for a challenger).  I am not voting for him in November if he supports gun control. 

Quote
Subject: Thank You For Contacting My Office
Dear Mr. MechAg94:

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding federal firearms laws. I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this important matter.

 

On May 24, 2022, a gunman maliciously took the lives of 21 innocent people, including 19 children at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. My heart goes out to the loved ones of those who lost their lives as they grieve such a cruel tragedy. This is an incredibly difficult time for the Uvalde community, Texas, and our Nation. My office is coordinating with federal, state, and local officials to assist the people of Uvalde as they navigate the aftermath of this senseless act of violence.

 

As your Senator, I am committed to focusing on the root causes of mass violence, fully enforcing current law, and addressing improvements to mental health care in America. I will continue to push for effective solutions that protect communities and preserve citizens' Second Amendment rights. As a strong proponent of the Second Amendment, I believe it is essential to safeguard law-abiding citizens' constitutional right to own and use firearms for lawful purposes. Restricting this right runs counter to the intent of our Founding Fathers, who expressly guaranteed that citizens would retain the right to keep and bear arms.

 

It is encouraging that the Supreme Court has upheld the will of our Founders and re-affirmed the ideals upon which our country was established. The Supreme Court's ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) affirmed that Americans' constitutional rights remain secure from federal government intrusion. I was proud to sign an amicus brief to the Supreme Court supporting the fundamental right of American citizens to keep and bear arms. This landmark ruling continues to have implications far beyond the District of Columbia. In the 2010 McDonald v. City of Chicago decision, the Supreme Court struck down the arbitrary gun ban in Chicago-thereby affirming that the Second Amendment protects Americans' fundamental rights against state and local encroachment.

 

As a former Texas Supreme Court Justice and Attorney General, I have firsthand knowledge of crime-fighting policies that work, and I believe citizens' Second Amendment rights should not be restricted because of the actions of criminals. Rather, we must focus our attention on the source of violent crime: criminals who use firearms to harm innocent Americans. I believe strictly enforcing the law-and imposing tougher sentences on career criminals and violent offenders who use firearms-will reduce violence more effectively than gun or equipment bans, which primarily serve to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens.

 

Furthermore, I believe Americans with concealed handgun licenses should not sacrifice their safety and peace of mind when traveling between states. That is why I was proud to introduce the Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2019 (S.69; 116th Congress). This bill would have allowed qualified individuals to carry a concealed handgun into, or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows its residents to carry concealed firearms. While this bill did not pass last Congress, I look forward to working with my colleagues on furthering protection of Americans' Second Amendment rights during the 117th Congress.

 

As your Senator, I will continue to champion the Second Amendment and work to provide resources for individuals with mental health issues to help ensure that our communities our safe and our Constitutional rights are not infringed.

 

I appreciate having the opportunity to represent Texas in the United States Senate, and will continue working with my colleagues to protect our Second Amendment rights. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

 

Sincerely,

 

JOHN CORNYN

United States Senator
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 08, 2022, 03:39:44 PM
Agreed.  There's already well established cultural and legal precedent with handguns.

They should tobacco to that list too.  That'll kill the bill right quick!  :P

The cultural and legal precedent ever since the English colonized the USA is that young adults have the right own guns. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 08, 2022, 04:06:07 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUtPQheWQAAfUXm?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 08, 2022, 05:46:42 PM
Quote
    The View's Joy Behar: "Once black people get guns in this country, the gun laws will change — Trust me." pic.twitter.com/896fexK41Z

    — Breaking911 (@Breaking911) June 8, 2022

You want to tell her?

‘The View’s’ Joy Behar unaware that black Americans own guns too
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/08/the-views-joy-behar-unaware-that-black-americans-own-guns-too/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 09, 2022, 08:36:52 AM
So the house bill that passed has a "15 round mag limit".

Quote
The bill would also prohibit the sale of ammunition magazines with a capacity of more than 15 rounds.

Ten rounds has always seemed to be their magic number. I would assume this 15 round limit is a compromise number and wonder which side of the aisle promoted it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-votes-tminimum-age-21-semi-automatic-weapons
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 08:43:22 AM
I think that's a typo
Everything else I'm seeing says 10
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 09, 2022, 08:46:29 AM
Mrgunsngear points out a flaw in the NY body armor prohibition. The current law only prohibits soft armor, most likely because it was written by people who know as much about armor as they do about semi-autos and "machine guns":

https://youtu.be/Azc-BPGDRak

Apparently NY also caught it after the fact and the governor said she will sign additional legislation if it's put on her desk.

AFAIK, the Buffalo shooter used hard armor.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 09, 2022, 08:51:44 AM
I think that's a typo
Everything else I'm seeing says 10

Could be, though a possibility is that 15 was chosen to be more palatable from the handgun side. Back in CA, I saw a lot of, "This doesn't affect me and my guns, so what do I care?" stuff.

Maybe they think this is a way to separate people who use handguns* for defense vs rifles.  We know a good percentage of the new gun owners over the last two years have leaned left. I'd be curious to know what percentage of them bought handguns and/or shotguns vs rifles (including AR pistols and the like).


*I realize most full sized handguns these days are 17-21 rounds, but the legislators might think losing a couple of rounds isn't as big a deal as losing 20 or more rounds of capacity. Nevermind still having to buy new and expensive magazines.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 08:55:38 AM
Unless I'm missing an amendment or something the text of the bill says 10

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7910/text

Be willing to bet the person who wrote that Foxnews article above had 15 as in AR-15 on the brain
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 09:08:08 AM
Meanwhile RI is moving to flat out ban >10rd mags. No grandfathering

Quote
Within 180 days, the legislation would require the owner to permanently modify the large capacity feeding device such that it cannot hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition; surrender the large capacity feeding device to a municipal police department or the Rhode Island State Police or transfer or sell it to a federally licensed firearm dealer "or person or firm outside the state of Rhode Island that is lawfully entitled" to own it.

Also age restrictions and banning open carry of shotguns and rifles.

High capacity magazines, age restrictions, and open-carry gun laws slated for RI votes
https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/07/rhode-island-house-vote-gun-control-laws-open-carry-weapons/7543876001/

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 09, 2022, 10:03:35 AM
The Hill is also reporting "15 rounds". Not saying you're wrong, WLJ, just that we seem to have conflicting (as usual) information in the MSM.

https://thehill.com/news/house/3516366-two-democrats-vote-against-advancing-gun-legislation/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 10:10:09 AM
The Hill is also reporting "15 rounds". Not saying you're wrong, WLJ, just that we seem to have conflicting (as usual) information in the MSM.

https://thehill.com/news/house/3516366-two-democrats-vote-against-advancing-gun-legislation/

And then when you click on a link in that https://thehill.com/news/house/3516681-house-passes-sweeping-gun-package-in-largely-party-line-vote/
You get this gem
Quote
prohibit civilian use of ammunition magazines with more than 15 rounds
Nothing in the bill prohibits the use of >10/15 rds mags just the selling of news ones to us common folk
Unless they amended the bill or added another bill into the mix in a way that's not showing up I don't know what's going on except maybe like I said above they've got 15 stuck in their head as in AR-15.
I guess they're have to pass it to find out what's in it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 09, 2022, 10:11:55 AM
If it passes, How long till someone starts selling 80% magazine flats?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 10:15:40 AM
If it passes, How long till someone starts selling 80% magazine flats?

Ghost magazines
Wonder if they could sell the parts under the guise of replacement parts? Just have to buy your magazines one part at a time. Here comes another loophole that will need to be closed
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 10:31:54 AM
Roll Call 245 | Bill Number: H. R. 7910
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022245

5 Ky reps voted Nay (all r)
1 voted Yea (d)

Of course Yarmuth voted yea. POS never saw a gun control bill he didn't love.
Thank God he's retiring
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 11, 2022, 10:38:18 AM
And they finally updated the text of the bill pertaining to "hi cap" magazines
Must of have update the webpage for the bill in the last day or two since I was checking for changes

Quote
“(42) The term ‘large capacity ammunition feeding device’—

“(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, helical feeding device, or similar device, including any such device joined or coupled with another in any manner, that has an overall capacity of, or that can be readily restored, changed, or converted to accept, more than 15 rounds of ammunition; and

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7910/text#toc-H527916A72D084906A233F41BD04F5DB9

So I guess Glock 19s, PX4 Compacts, Hellcat both sub C and Pro are safe.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 12, 2022, 10:40:32 AM
The Senate may announce their version as soon as today:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/12/politics/senate-gun-safety-agreement/index.html

The story suggests there will be no rifle ban, but says nothing about mag limits.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 11:25:33 AM
You may notice some familiar names in the list
I just chucked my Logitech mouse into a drawer

228 high-powered CEOs—from Lyft to Bain Capital—are calling for ‘bold, urgent action’ on gun violence
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/10/ceos-demand-bold-urgent-action-on-gun-reform-in-letter-to-senate.html

The list. Some are the usual suspects like Ben&Jerry's and Levi Strauss
https://www.ceosforgunsafety.org/pages/2022
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 12, 2022, 11:29:19 AM
I put CEOs in the same category as actors. If it's not something you have expertise on, like how the economy is affecting your business, then STFU. Your opinion is no more important than anyone else's.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 11:59:13 AM
I hate getting used to a new mouse
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Pretty clear Fortune Magazine is no friend of the gun industry

Fortune tries to get FTC to go after gun industry
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/12/fortune-gun-industry-n59249
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 12:55:12 PM
Just popped up in my YT feed
Watching as I post

 BREAKING: Senators Have 60 Votes for Red Flag & MORE!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pa9ytD0qcc
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 02:00:05 PM
Imagine that, Mitt Romney
Note: There is no text yet, this is just an agreement so this could fall apart.

UPDATE: These 10 Traitor Republicans Turned Their Backs On The Constitution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSgOylgCMgg
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 12, 2022, 02:43:48 PM
I can't imagine how a Senator from Missouri, with some of the most pro-gun laws on the books; and a Senator who is up for re-election this year, could possibly think his constituents will look the other way on this.

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 12, 2022, 03:45:11 PM
Blount is not running for reelection.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 12, 2022, 04:02:12 PM
Blount is not running for reelection.

Oh. I forgot about that. Hope he has no further ambitions for office, then.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Boomhauer on June 12, 2022, 05:01:54 PM
Of course *expletive deleted*ing Graham never misses an opportunity to reach across the aisle to *expletive deleted*ck us over



Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 12, 2022, 05:25:32 PM
Quote
The framework calls for legislation that would eliminate straw-purchasing firearms, support state-level crisis intervention orders; fund mental health resources for children and families; enhance protections for victims of domestic violence, and increase funding for school safety and mental health initiatives.


Do they want to explain how legislation will eliminate straw-purchases?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 12, 2022, 05:32:06 PM
Do they want to explain how legislation will eliminate straw-purchases?

They could try passing a law against it.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 12, 2022, 06:52:46 PM
So it appears that the most egregious part of the senate legislation is the "incentive" for states to enact and/or enhance red flag laws. Whether carrot or stick, it'll probably involve dollars that many states won't say "no" to.

It may be there, but I saw nothing regarding penalties for falsely reporting someone.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 12, 2022, 08:59:15 PM
John Cornyn – Texas
Thom Tillis – North Carolina
Roy Blunt – Missouri
Richard Burr – North Carolina
Bill Cassidy – Louisiana
Suan Collins – Maine
Lindsey Graham – South Carolina
Rob Portman – Ohio
Mitt Romney – Utah
Pat Toomey – Pennsylvania

BREAKING: Senate Reaches Gun Control Compromise Deal With 10 Republicans Signing On
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-senate-reaches-gun-control-compromise-deal-with-10-gopers-signing-on/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RocketMan on June 12, 2022, 09:17:58 PM
Thom Tillis is a complete waste of oxygen in NC.  A useless RINO, nothing more.  I was really hoping he would get primaried out the last go around, but we got stuck with him again.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 12, 2022, 09:36:57 PM
Here’s some highlights in the “bipartisan agreement”

https://thewaterburyobserver.bulletin.com/chris-murphy-instrumental-in-school-safety-and-gun-control-bi-partisan-agreement-in-u-s-senate/?fs=e&s=cl

Support for State Crisis Intervention Orders

● Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.

Investment in Children and Family Mental Health Services

● National expansion of community behavioral health center model; major investments to increase access to mental health and suicide prevention programs; and other support services available in the community, including crisis and trauma intervention and recovery.

Protections for Victims of Domestic Violence

● Convicted domestic violence abusers and individuals subject to domestic violence restraining orders are included in NICS, including those who have or have had a continuing relationship of a romantic or intimate nature.

Funding for School-Based Mental Health and Supportive Services

● Invests in programs to expand mental health and supportive services in schools, including: early identification and intervention programs and school based mental health and wrap-around services.

Funding for School Safety Resources

● Invests in programs to help institute safety measures in and around primary and secondary schools, support school violence prevention efforts and provide training to school personnel and students.

Clarification of Definition of Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer

● Cracks down on criminals who illegally evade licensing requirements.

Telehealth Investments

● Invests in programs that increase access to mental and behavioral health services for youth and families in crisis via telehealth.

Under 21 Enhanced Review Process

● For buyers under 21 years of age, requires an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement.

Penalties for Straw Purchasing

● Cracks down on criminals who illegally straw purchase and traffic guns.

Two hours before the announcement was made Murphy was on CNN's State of the Union and said,"I've never been part of negotiations as serious as these. There are more Republicans at the table talking about changing our gun laws and investing in mental health than at any time since Sandy Hook."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on June 13, 2022, 12:31:46 AM
So, what percentage of FFLs are illegally evading the licensing requirements? Guessing they're going to change a few definitions.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on June 13, 2022, 12:54:15 AM
I suspect that we're going to see a slow boil of regulation and swamp creatures...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 13, 2022, 05:20:14 AM
The devil's in the details of course, but some 9f that I'd actually  support, and I like that it seems to concentrate on the people committing crimes rather than guns or magazines.

Of course they can still make it a steaming pile of horseshit during the drafting phase.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 13, 2022, 07:45:30 AM
Always read a proposed law considering the absolute worst possible interpretation and implementation imaginable.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Bogie on June 13, 2022, 07:57:19 AM
Lawdog on Red Flag laws...
 
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2022/06/red-flag-laws-again.html
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 13, 2022, 08:20:36 AM
Quote
Under 21 Enhanced Review Process

● For buyers under 21 years of age, requires an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement.

This is one that I worry about. Under 21 today, everybody tomorrow "because we already do it for under 21. It should be universal!".
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 13, 2022, 09:28:19 AM
There could be a simple way to include juvenile records without opening them up.  Just put a rating on them or just a go/no-go that only applies for say 5 years.  If someone has a felony juvenile record, it will stay with them for 5 years at least as far as NICS is concerned.  Include a way review and correct the record if there is an error.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 13, 2022, 10:52:23 AM
This is one that I worry about. Under 21 today, everybody tomorrow "because we already do it for under 21. It should be universal!".

I don't love it, but also: You're either a prohibited person under the specific set of federal laws governing what is a prohibited person, or you're not.  You can investigate all you like, and you might find some people that were prohibited person which weren't classified as such, but you won't find people who aren't prohibited suddenly being such - unless the definitions of prohibited person also shift.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 13, 2022, 10:54:19 AM
Under 21? Just steal guns from a gun store.

22 stolen guns leads to just 21 days behind bars for teen suspect
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/13/22-stolen-guns-leads-to-just-21-days-behind-bars-for-teen-suspect-n59307
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 13, 2022, 04:38:22 PM
What Didn't Make The Cut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjRqtM6Cc4c

John Crump talks about what gems were cut out of the gun control compromise. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 13, 2022, 09:03:26 PM
2nd Amendment Foundation sent an email today noting that this is an agreement between 10 Dems and 10 Repubs, but there has been no law drafted yet.  The other Dems may not agree with the compromise.  I guess we will see where this goes.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 13, 2022, 10:54:36 PM
no GOP of the 10 is seeking or up for reelection this year.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 10:36:29 AM
Now that the door has been cracked open in the Senate
Universal background checks (pointless without registration )
Under 21 ban on "assault" weapons
License to buy an "assault" weapon
"Hi cap" mag ban. Who knows what number?
Mandatory safe storage requirements and penalties
And some straw purchase and trafficking BS

REVEALED: They Want MORE Gun Control!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_tjuDtkU70
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 14, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
no GOP of the 10 is seeking or up for reelection this year.
John Cornyn of Texas is up for re-election.  He already won the primary election in March. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on June 14, 2022, 11:04:44 AM
Now that the door has been cracked open in the Senate
Universal background checks (Note: pointless without registration )
Under 21 ban on "assault" weapons
License to buy an "assault" weapon
"Hi cap" mag ban. Who knows what number?
Mandatory safe storage requirements and penalties
And some straw purchase and trafficking BS

REVEALED: They Want MORE Gun Control!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_tjuDtkU70

We already have most of these in Washington state.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 14, 2022, 11:06:27 AM
We already have most of these in Washington state.

Well, we don't in Kansas, and I'm not all that enamored with it!
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 11:11:46 AM
We already have most of these in Washington state.

Has the murder rate gone up or down since?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 14, 2022, 01:05:16 PM
Has the murder rate gone up or down since?

Up.  But I’d pin that on the idiotic “defund the police” movement and a new rule prohibiting pursuing fleeing criminals than the gun laws.  Gun laws didn’t help for sure though.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 14, 2022, 01:09:29 PM
Has the murder rate gone up or down since?

Also the University of Washington is no longer investigating rapes.  Not sure if it’s the university itself, or Seattle PD, but either way, they’ll take the evidence but won’t pursue it.  At least not for a long time.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 01:11:56 PM
Up.  But I’d pin that on the idiotic “defund the police” movement and a new rule prohibiting pursuing fleeing criminals than the gun laws.  Gun laws didn’t help for sure though.

Well obviously the answer then is MORE strict gun laws and MORE lenient criminal laws.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 01:13:44 PM
Also the University of Washington is no longer investigating rapes.  Not sure if it’s the university itself, or Seattle PD, but either way, they’ll take the evidence but won’t pursue it.  At least not for a long time.

See! It's working! The incidence of rape has gone down.
SF actually pulled this crap where after they decriminalized certain crimes they loudly proclaimed a drop in crime
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: dogmush on June 14, 2022, 01:33:05 PM
Also the University of Washington is no longer investigating rapes.  Not sure if it’s the university itself, or Seattle PD, but either way, they’ll take the evidence but won’t pursue it.  At least not for a long time.

Someone's going to lock the doors from the outside and burn a frat house to the ground.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 14, 2022, 01:37:57 PM
My older daughter will NOT be attending UW. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on June 14, 2022, 02:18:50 PM
^^^I think you are talking about the Seattle PD in general, not the UW

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/seattle-police-halted-investigating-adult-sexual-assaults-this-year-internal-memo-shows/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 14, 2022, 03:40:26 PM
AOC:  Including juvenile records in background checks might be racist:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/06/14/aoc-expanding-background-checks-to-include-juvenile-records-in-the-senate-gun-bill-might-be-racist-n476129


"something something white supremacy"
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 14, 2022, 03:50:04 PM
AOC:  Including juvenile records in background checks might be racist:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/06/14/aoc-expanding-background-checks-to-include-juvenile-records-in-the-senate-gun-bill-might-be-racist-n476129


"something something white supremacy"
Just make it so all (not just juvenile) felonies and criminal record issues drop off the background check after 10 years?  Maybe 15 years.  I would be okay with that. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 14, 2022, 05:06:47 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/murder-suicides-by-pilots-are-vexing-airlines-as-deaths-mount/ar-AAYoW66

Quote
For decades, commercial airline travel has gotten progressively safer. But one cause of deaths has stubbornly persisted: pilots who intentionally crash in murder-suicides.

Preliminary evidence suggests the crash of a China Eastern Airlines Corp. jet in March may be the latest such tragedy, a person familiar with the investigation said. If confirmed, that would make it the fourth since 2013, bringing deaths in those crashes to 554.

How many have been killed in mass shooting events in that time?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 05:13:45 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/murder-suicides-by-pilots-are-vexing-airlines-as-deaths-mount/ar-AAYoW66
Quote
For decades, commercial airline travel has gotten progressively safer. But one cause of deaths has stubbornly persisted: pilots who intentionally crash in murder-suicides.

Preliminary evidence suggests the crash of a China Eastern Airlines Corp. jet in March may be the latest such tragedy, a person familiar with the investigation said. If confirmed, that would make it the fourth since 2013, bringing deaths in those crashes to 554.

How many have been killed in mass shooting events in that time?

As far as fatalities go that's less than an avg year in Chicago. 794 in 2021 alone.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 14, 2022, 06:25:48 PM
NJ looking to emulate NY on gun company lawsuits.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 14, 2022, 11:02:17 PM
I heard an opinion that once the current gun control efforts are concluded, the administration will turn back toward trying to restrict imports more. 

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 15, 2022, 07:15:41 AM
I heard an opinion that once the current gun control efforts are concluded, the administration will turn back toward trying to restrict imports more. 

Any thoughts?
Imports are one area where POTUS has a lot of authority - I don't think he's done his worst there yet.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 15, 2022, 07:20:21 AM
Imports are one area where POTUS has a lot of authority - I don't think he's done his worst there yet.

I recall that he said he would hit the EOs after legislation was passed to "shore up" the legislation.

I think we've talked about it before, but I can't recall what modern foreign "everyday" arms (e.g., Sig, Walther) that would affect. I think most of the foreign makers have domestic facilities.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 15, 2022, 08:37:22 AM
The video I was watching happened to be talking about MP5 clones.  Atlantic Firearms has/had some POF guns available (Pakistani Ordnance Factory).  I don't think H&K has US production.  I think it is the company that used to import the Turkish clones that is now making a US made MP5. 

Anyway, if imports are restricted, certain imports that are collectible now will become more valuable.  The problem is predicting which ones.  I would think the best angle would be to stick with brands that have a cult following like H&K.  American made versions might pop up, but the originals would still be there. 

Just a thought.  It is still enough of a gamble I doubt I would buy anything that I didn't sort of want anyway. 

Edit:  The CMP still has M1 Garands or sale.  That is probably a better way to make a few dollars. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 15, 2022, 10:25:36 AM
Biden needs to get his own family's house in order before he insists people should be thrown in jail for improper firearm storage:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/15/gun-grabber-joe-biden-apparently-had-five-guns-as-of-2018-according-to-his-son-hunter-biden/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 10:47:51 AM
Meanwhile RI is moving to flat out ban >10rd mags. No grandfathering

Also age restrictions and banning open carry of shotguns and rifles.

High capacity magazines, age restrictions, and open-carry gun laws slated for RI votes
https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/07/rhode-island-house-vote-gun-control-laws-open-carry-weapons/7543876001/

Passed the legislature. I'm assuming the gov will sign
Be interesting to watch how the outright ban of >10 mags with no grandfathering goes

Edit: Whoops. forgot the link
RI legislature approves mag ban, ban on gun sales to under-21s, and more
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/15/ri-gun-control-laws-n59402
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 10:54:16 AM
Quote
Under the bill, those who already own large-capacity magazines or weapons that hold more than 10 rounds will have 180 days to comply with the law by either permanently altering the weapon so it can no longer hold more than 10 rounds, turning it into their local or state police, or transferring or selling it to a federally licensed firearm dealer or person or outside the state who is lawfully entitled to own or possess it. The bill provides exceptions for current and retired law enforcement officers and active duty military or National Guard members.

Hmmmm
"permanently altering the WEAPON"

Rhode Island General Assembly Passes Sweeping Gun Control Legislation
https://www.thenewportbuzz.com/rhode-island-general-assembly-passes-sweeping-gun-control-legislation/36901
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 15, 2022, 10:58:10 AM
^^^

Quote
retired law enforcement officers
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 15, 2022, 11:05:09 AM
Why would retired law enforcement officers need "high capacity" magazines?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 15, 2022, 11:09:23 AM
Why would retired law enforcement officers need "high capacity" magazines?

And they include current military, but not retired military.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
AOC:  Including juvenile records in background checks might be racist:

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/06/14/aoc-expanding-background-checks-to-include-juvenile-records-in-the-senate-gun-bill-might-be-racist-n476129


"something something white supremacy"

How about requiring a current valid photo ID?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 15, 2022, 11:29:33 AM
How about requiring a current valid photo ID?

Well, that's obviously racist.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 12:15:05 PM
Remember this?

1,000% tax on "assault" weapons

A House Democrat plans to introduce a bill that would hit AR-15's with a 1,000% tax — and it could pass Congress without GOP votes
https://www.businessinsider.com/democrat-ar-15-rifles-tax-congress-gun-control-biden-administration-2022-6

Well the bill has been introduced and it has support
Also includes >10rd magazines

Quote
The 1,000% tax would apply to military-style "assault weapons" and high-capacity magazines capable of carrying 10 rounds or more, adding thousands of dollars to the final sales price of such guns in a bid to severely restrict their access. The cost of those weapons typically range between $500 and $2,000, depending on location and other variables. That means the plan would add $5,000 and $20,000 to the final price tag.

No Rs needed for passing

Quote
It's intended to pass through budget reconciliation, a legislative maneuver allowing Democrats to sidestep GOP resistance and approve legislation with a simple majority vote. Democrats employed the tactic to pass President Joe Biden's stimulus law as well as the House-approved Build Back Better bill that later died in the 50-50 Senate.

Only measures that are deemed to have a large impact on the federal budget can be put into such a bill. Three budget experts told Insider that the bill would likely qualify to be included in a reconciliation package that Democrats hope to revive by summer's end, as it is structured as a tax.

37 House Democrats roll out a bill to hit AR-15-style weapons with a 1,000% tax that could pass Congress without Republican support
https://www.businessinsider.com/house-democrats-ar-15-tax-gun-control-reconciliation-2022-6

Doesn't mean it's going anywhere but bears watching
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 12:25:01 PM
The bill

https://beyer.house.gov/uploadedfiles/awe_act_text.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 15, 2022, 12:47:31 PM
It won't get 50 D's but it might get a few R's.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 01:12:55 PM
Tin-foil-hat mode on [tinfoil] What the dems need right now is a highly publicized emotional event involving "assault" guns to exploit. Tin-foil-hat mode off.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 15, 2022, 01:57:02 PM
Dealer special:  AR-15 for $1 if you also buy a sling for $(price of AR before the tax).

1000% tax on $1 = $10
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 15, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
Dealer special:  AR-15 for $1 if you also buy a sling for $(price of AR before the tax).

1000% tax on $1 = $10
Brilliant idea if I do say so myself!

Reply #490: https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=63952.msg1357856#msg1357856

 ;)    :rofl:
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 15, 2022, 03:38:22 PM
Great minds think alike.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 15, 2022, 06:00:34 PM
Great minds think alike.
And fools never differ . . . but let's not go there.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 09:00:37 PM
Quote
A person with knowledge of the situation tells us that, more than just “considering” the move, Winchester, which operates the US Army’s Lake City ammunition plant, has been informed that it may no longer sell M855 and SS109 ammunition produced in excess of the military’s needs on the civilian market.

How would that affect the civilian supply of .223 and 5.56 ammunition? We understand that approximately 30% of the commercial market’s sales volume of .223/5.56 is produced by Lake City.

BREAKING: Biden Administration Moves to Cut Off Lake City .223/5.56 Ammo From the Commercial Market
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-biden-administration-moves-to-cut-off-lake-city-223-5-56-ammo-from-the-commercial-market/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 15, 2022, 09:21:11 PM
Well cases won't be in my price range again.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 15, 2022, 09:28:50 PM
BREAKING: Biden Administration Moves to Cut Off Lake City .223/5.56 Ammo From the Commercial Market
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-biden-administration-moves-to-cut-off-lake-city-223-5-56-ammo-from-the-commercial-market/
Wouldn't commercial sales be part of the contract with Winchester?  I wouldn't think they could or should be able to just order that without some lawsuits.  I guess they could order the military to buy it all and stockpile it.  I don't know the details of the contract. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 16, 2022, 08:38:21 AM
This is a Fox News poll, so one would expect equal, or even dominant conservative representation. Sadly, a strong percentage in favor of gun control.

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-voters-voice-support-gun-reform
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2022, 10:21:19 AM
This is a Fox News poll, so one would expect equal, or even dominant conservative representation. Sadly, a strong percentage in favor of gun control.

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-voters-voice-support-gun-reform

A whole 1000 people polled nationwide. 
Quote
Conducted June 10-13, 2022 under the joint direction of Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R), this Fox News Poll includes interviews with 1,002 registered voters nationwide who were randomly selected from a national voter file and spoke with live interviewers on both landlines and cellphones. The total sample has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on June 16, 2022, 11:09:12 AM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/howcan-a-poll-of-only-100/

https://www.cloudresearch.com/resources/guides/statistical-significance/determine-sample-size/

https://www.janda.org/c10/Lectures/topic05/GallupFAQ.htm

1000 random people is a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 16, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/howcan-a-poll-of-only-100/

https://www.cloudresearch.com/resources/guides/statistical-significance/determine-sample-size/

https://www.janda.org/c10/Lectures/topic05/GallupFAQ.htm

1000 random people is a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.

And Hillary will win by a landslide
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2022, 12:18:11 PM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/howcan-a-poll-of-only-100/

https://www.cloudresearch.com/resources/guides/statistical-significance/determine-sample-size/

https://www.janda.org/c10/Lectures/topic05/GallupFAQ.htm

1000 random people is a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.
Of course it is, with the caveat that a bunch of assumptions are true about the population sampled, the questions asked, etc, etc, etc. 
It would also be trivial to bias the outcome in a way that makes it hard to detect by an outside party if the company wanted to.  There is rarely anything concrete to prove them wrong.

Seems like I have seen polls showing the opposite of what this poll says in recent times, but I don't always pay much attention to polls.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on June 16, 2022, 12:29:44 PM
Of course it is, with the caveat that a bunch of assumptions are true about the population sampled, the questions asked, etc, etc, etc. 
It would also be trivial to bias the outcome in a way that makes it hard to detect by an outside party if the company wanted to.  There is rarely anything concrete to prove them wrong.

Seems like I have seen polls showing the opposite of what this poll says in recent times, but I don't always pay much attention to polls.

You are now talking about something different than a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.  You are now talking about sample selection and question bias driving the results of a poll.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 16, 2022, 12:37:46 PM
You are now talking about something different than a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.  You are now talking about sample selection and question bias driving the results of a poll.

Both can be true here.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 16, 2022, 12:54:53 PM
Both can be true here.

If I were to believe the MSM, Fox News bias would be to selectively bias the poll to the opposite of what they got. That's why I posted it. I would assume (making an ass out of you and me) they would at the very least ask neutral questions. They still got a "pro gun control" response.

For me, this is something to discuss because those of us in the gun community sometimes insulate ourselves regarding what many "mainstream" conservative non-gun owners think. I do believe that most of them think things like "21 to buy a gun" and "universal background checks" are absolutely appropriate responses.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 16, 2022, 01:13:01 PM
You are now talking about something different than a statistically significant sample size for a national poll.  You are now talking about sample selection and question bias driving the results of a poll.
I feel like that is what I was talking about the whole time.  We have talked about polling before. 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 16, 2022, 01:22:35 PM
Fox isn’t really on “our side”.  They want to sell advertising.  Whatever maximizes those add dollars is what they want generally speaking.  But many at Fox also are trying to turn them into another left wing organization.  Or at least move the Overton window so that “conservative” opinions become more left wing.

So they could be riling up the right to get more advertising bucks.  They could be trying to make pro2A people look like the far fringe of conservative opinion.  They could be looking to move the network to the left.  Or they could have just been dumb enough to hire a polling firm that they shouldn’t have.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 16, 2022, 04:04:05 PM
All TV news is garbage.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: DittoHead on June 16, 2022, 04:35:40 PM
All TV news is garbage.

This right here is the truth.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 16, 2022, 04:42:43 PM
All TV news is garbage.

That's why I don't watch. I read. If I have questions on reporting I can go to other sites and see where the middle is.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Nick1911 on June 16, 2022, 04:44:22 PM
That's why I don't watch. I read. If I have questions on reporting I can go to other sites and see where the middle is.

Smart man.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 16, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
The Pennsylvania governor has posted an infographic to show how red flag laws work. I know nothing about him, so I can't tell if he's serious that this is a good example or if he's being sarcastic.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVVwVE5WAAEDFHV?format=png&name=small)

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/16/gov-tom-wolf-posts-a-cartoon-version-of-how-red-flag-laws-work-to-prevent-mass-shootings/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 16, 2022, 09:17:57 PM
Cryptic messages!
Cryptic messages!
Cryptic messages!

Ooh I just scared myself
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 16, 2022, 10:34:35 PM
I saw this cartoon posted elsewhere, and thought it was spot on.

(https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92687/608E77B7-04F9-4A12-8606-719E0EBDE9F7_jpe-2420445.JPG)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 17, 2022, 09:21:39 AM
All TV news is garbage.
Not just TV. More than a century ago, Mark Twain wrote something along the lines of "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed."
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on June 17, 2022, 10:25:50 AM
Not just TV. More than a century ago, Mark Twain wrote something along the lines of "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed."
To bring this into the modern era:
... and if you read true information that makes you mistrust the government then you're malinformed.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 17, 2022, 11:17:15 AM
Kyle Rittenhouse
@ThisIsKyleR
Come and take ‘em, Joe.
https://twitter.com/ThisIsKyleR/status/1533930686121484295

Many of the comments are headache inducing
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 17, 2022, 11:33:10 AM
The Pennsylvania governor has posted an infographic to show how red flag laws work. I know nothing about him, so I can't tell if he's serious that this is a good example or if he's being sarcastic.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVVwVE5WAAEDFHV?format=png&name=small)

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/16/gov-tom-wolf-posts-a-cartoon-version-of-how-red-flag-laws-work-to-prevent-mass-shootings/

Real World version

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1537791670149861377/photo/1
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVdVX4EWAAA3Gcw?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 17, 2022, 11:34:20 AM
Fun with demographics:

https://amgreatness.com/2022/06/16/boys-girls-guns-and-blacks/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 17, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVddE8tXsAAGfUZ?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: cordex on June 17, 2022, 01:20:04 PM
Red flag laws lend themselves to serious abuse, and I don't trust them to either be designed or used in good faith.

However, I would note that whenever a mediagenic mass-shooting happens, in deflecting from gun control many folks on "our side" tend to point to the (inevitable) lengthy history of complaints about often sub-criminal, or mildly-criminal behavior on the part of the shooter and say "Well, look at how obviously crazy that person was, why didn't the cops do something before he snapped?" I've seen the argument more times than I can count on APS and have probably made it myself.  It seems to me that proponents of that position are asking for some sort of red flag laws.

That said, I don't pretend to have any answers.  If government could be trusted - both now and in perpetuity - then one might put a lot of possible solutions on the table.  But the government absolutely cannot be trusted.

 =|
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on June 17, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
Kyle Rittenhouse
@ThisIsKyleR
Come and take ‘em, Joe.
https://twitter.com/ThisIsKyleR/status/1533930686121484295

Many of the comments are headache inducing

Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MillCreek on June 17, 2022, 01:34:30 PM
https://mynorthwest.com/1491212/red-flag-law-washington/

I have been looking for actual data on the number of ERPOs in Washington state and why they are granted.  I would have thought there would be state-wide numbers, but if so, I have not found them.  I did see this tidbit in the article linked above: 

For 2018, the unit assisted on a total of 71 ERPOs that were ultimately granted – only two of those were initiated by family members, though, highlighting the need to educate the public about the fact that they can ask the court for assistance.

Of the 71, Wyatt says 45 percent involved people threatening to hurt themselves, while 33 percent involved threats against others. The remainder was a mixture of the two.

Wyatt says most of the threats against others were domestic violence related.


So a big chunk of the orders granted in King County in 2018 were for threats of suicide and the rest were for threats against others, primarily domestic violence. 

As long as there is due process and judicial review, I have no problem with the concept of temporarily or even permanently removing firearms from people with suicidal intent, or medical or psychiatric problems making them a danger to themselves or others, such as dementia.  From the standpoint of predicting current or future dangerousness of someone, I am more skeptical on our ability to do so and there is lots of potential for political or legal manipulation of the system.  It is hard to generate data on a negative: by temporarily removing these guns, we prevented X number of deaths or injuries.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 17, 2022, 02:12:10 PM
Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.
He is a kid.  Why are you looking at him for wise commentary on the RKBA? 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 17, 2022, 02:27:31 PM
Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.

That assumes it’s even transferable at all.  It’s entirely possible the range has a SOT license and it’s a post-86 minigun.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 17, 2022, 03:07:21 PM
Polls were mentioned previously.  This one came up on Truth about Guns. 

Nearly 3 Out Of 4 Support Raising Legal Age To Buy Any Gun, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Support For Assault Weapons Ban Hits A Low
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3848

( I guess it could be the same poll for all I know)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 18, 2022, 07:41:19 AM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/3f46d93fee06c7a576db9b64a1bd3f68.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Pb on June 19, 2022, 09:38:13 PM
Ok, so what does the article say? 
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 08:47:27 AM
Says text of the bill will be made available later today.

BREAKING NEWS: Senate Negotiators Reach Agreement On Red Flag & Boyfriend Loophole!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOHVzf0pcF4
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
A potential roadblock is inclusion of the Hyde Amendment in the gun-control bill:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/abortion-provision-latest-hangup-senate-gun-bill

... because guns should not be used to perform abortions, or something ...
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 21, 2022, 02:55:04 PM
A potential roadblock is inclusion of the Hyde Amendment in the gun-control bill:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/abortion-provision-latest-hangup-senate-gun-bill

... because guns should not be used to perform abortions, or something ...
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 21, 2022, 05:29:20 PM
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?

Hey, no *expletive deleted*it. That's a great idea.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: sumpnz on June 21, 2022, 05:39:43 PM
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?

WHAT??
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 05:51:25 PM
According to this they have something they're trying to vote on today
Something about the abortion part of the red flag part being a sticking point

BREAKING: Senate Gun-Control Heads To The Floor For A Vote!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUmvwqSvMc
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 10:15:37 PM
Live breakdown of the senate bill

 Let's Go Over The Senate Gun Control Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crmnYDltbhE

The bill
https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/bipartisan_safer_communities_act_text.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 10:20:23 PM
Mostly mental health stuff
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 10:41:02 PM
Fed funding for state level red flag laws
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Jim147 on June 21, 2022, 10:46:15 PM
Tons of FBI funding from somewhere. No guaranty of due process on the red flag laws. Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 11:04:02 PM
Ok, so what does the article say?


Sorry just noticed your question.
Thought I had type a comment but where did it go? Probably lost somewhere between keyboard and chair.
Anyway, that was a photo posted and the whole point is the absurdity of thinking an EO could magically stop "gun" violence.
The actual article never saw it, just the title was enough for me to know it was a waste of time.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 22, 2022, 09:38:03 AM
Investments in mental health. In other words federal $$$$$$$$$$

Federal grant program to “encourage” states to adopt “red flag” firearms seizure laws. Basically bribe money to get the states to do the dirty work

Expands background checks to anyone under 21 to include juvenile records

Changes the wording in what defines a gun dealer from someone who sells firearms “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” to “‘to predominantly earn a profit.”

Makes straw purchases double secret illegal

Closes the  "boyfriend loophole" by changing the definition of what is a relationship.

School safety clearing house. Not sure what what that is yet but I think basically more money for school security

***Update: Done Deal?*** Gun deal reportedly reached by Senate negotiators. Here's what's included
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/12/gun-deal-reportedly-reached-by-senate-negotiators-heres-whats-included-n59277

Senate deal finally a bill. Is it as bad as we thought?
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/22/senate-bill-n59604
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Ben on June 22, 2022, 10:18:03 AM
Well, those federal red flag ducats are gonna separate the posers from the real deals for "pro-gun" states. I hope my state makes the correct decision.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 22, 2022, 11:31:55 AM
Any chance some Democrats in the House torpedo it to avoid doing this before the election?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 22, 2022, 01:30:30 PM
Waiting for someone to propose a White Privilege Gun Tax bill since Blacks are subject to more murders and White privilege can be the ONLY explanation  :O
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 22, 2022, 03:15:47 PM
Washington Post's Max Boot claims 'GOP gun cult' is the 'sickness in U.S. culture'
https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-posts-max-boot-claims-gop-gun-cult-sickness-u-s-culture

The Washington Post article was blocked by a pay wall so I found this version.  Just an anti-gun article for your amusement. 

Quote
Boot chided the party for blaming everything else but guns for mass shootings, like the one in Uvalde, Texas. "They blame doors, video games, mental illness, "emasculated" men, family breakdown, demons, the lack of prayer in schools, Ritalin, antidepressants, social media, social isolation — anything and everything except the weapons used in these crimes," he stated.
This quote jumps out.  Note he did not mention blaming the shooter.  He also confuses "blame" with "prevention" with that list. 



Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 22, 2022, 04:01:24 PM
Will any of the 14 GOP Senators who voted ‘yes’ on the bipartisan gun bill really suffer any electoral consequences?
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/22/will-any-of-the-14-gop-senators-who-voted-yes-on-the-bipartisan-gun-bill-really-suffer-any-electoral-consequences/

One error IMO.  Cornyn is up for election in November.  He won't be up for a primary election again for a while.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 22, 2022, 04:19:13 PM
So, Bill Clinton is telling people how to talk to gun owners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkJZoxCUr1o&t=1s

My take
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52165997443_c9917c6db5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ntJnB2)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 22, 2022, 05:45:37 PM
Winnie The Pooh Has Rifle Confiscated After Congress Passes ‘Red Flag’ Law
https://babylonbee.com/news/winnie-the-pooh-has-rifle-confiscated-after-congress-passes-red-flag-law
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 22, 2022, 05:48:38 PM
Winnie The Pooh Has Rifle Confiscated After Congress Passes ‘Red Flag’ Law
https://babylonbee.com/news/winnie-the-pooh-has-rifle-confiscated-after-congress-passes-red-flag-law

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/af/63/b0af63673036e36a5b3c77ff122ed765.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 22, 2022, 06:26:50 PM
Schumer and gang attached it as an amendment to a bill to rename a court house in FL that had ready passed

 DIRTY POLITICS! This Is How They Forced Through The Gun-Control Bill!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL3mmUgw9Ok
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Strings on June 22, 2022, 09:07:35 PM
Quote
there is lots of potential for political or legal manipulation of the system

Also criminal

Had a friend who got a welfare check: they pulled all the weapons out of the house (including a type 38 Arisaka and NCO katana w/intact mums). Police chief tried refusing to return them (took a judge to get them back)
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 22, 2022, 09:33:47 PM
BREAKING: Biden Administration Moves to Cut Off Lake City .223/5.56 Ammo From the Commercial Market
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/breaking-biden-administration-moves-to-cut-off-lake-city-223-5-56-ammo-from-the-commercial-market/

The report may be erroneous:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZyxMsapUM

Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 07:44:48 AM
The report may be erroneous:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZyxMsapUM

I saw that when when the video came out and it very well could be but he spoke to one guy who may or may not been in a position to know at the time.
But considering how this admin politicizes everything they touch I'm taking  await and see attitude but leading toward it's true until I get firm proof otherwise merely as caution if nothing else.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 07:49:15 AM
Feinstein added an amendment to raise the age to buy a semi auto and "hi cap" mags to 21

BREAKING: Dianne Feinstein Amendment Threatens Senate Bill (Raise The Age)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Q9H-eAxfY
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 08:33:23 AM
Feinstein may be in effect effectively torpedoing this bill for us.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2022, 09:45:52 AM
Feinstein may be in effect effectively torpedoing this bill for us.
That would be nice.  They may also try to slip in amendments through the reconciliation process.  I think that would bypass the 60 vote requirement in the Senate.
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 10:12:17 AM
Signed
Absolutely nothing in the bill that would have had an effect what so ever on the recent shootings.

Biden Signs Cornyn-Murphy Gun Control Bill Into Law – ‘Lives Will Be Saved’
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/biden-signs-cornyn-murphy-gun-control-bill-into-law-lives-will-be-saved/
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 25, 2022, 01:13:08 PM
Link to the bill: https://www.congress.gov/117/bills/s2938/BILLS-117s2938enr.pdf
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: HankB on June 25, 2022, 01:27:30 PM
Does the bill include severability? IANAL, but I remember reading that some bills are written in a way that if one provision is thrown out by a court, the entire bill is voided. Other bills can have some provisions stricken without affecting the rest of the law.

Where does this latest bill fall?
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2022, 05:04:39 PM
NJ moving ahead with new laws

Quote
Under the seven proposals — many of which Murphy has sought for more than a year — New Jersey would mandate people receive firearm training to obtain a gun permit, ban .50 caliber rifles, require micro-stamping technology, stipulate new residents moving from other states register firearms, regulate handgun ammunition, crack down on ghost guns, and make it easier to sue gun manufacturers and dealers over gun crimes in the state.

New NJ gun control bills head to Murphy for signing
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/30/new-nj-gun-control-bills-head-to-murphy-for-signing-n59918
Title: Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
Post by: WLJ on July 01, 2022, 08:32:28 PM
Meanwhile in Delaware 18 is a delicate age

Carney signs six gun control bills into law
https://www.capegazette.com/article/carney-signs-six-gun-control-bills-law/242473