Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 230RN on February 20, 2021, 06:19:29 PM

Title: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 20, 2021, 06:19:29 PM
That's the official description:

United Airlines Boeing 777 Suffers Uncontained Engine failure

Quote
https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/02/20/united-airlines-boeing-777-suffers-uncontained-engine-failure/

A United Airlines Boeing 777-200, registered N772UA, suffered an uncontained engine failure during its departure from Denver International Airport. Flight UA328 bound for Honolulu's Daniel K. Inouye International Airport was forced to return to Denver just a few minutes into the flight after the right-hand engine malfunctioned. The incident led to scattered debris falling throughout […]

There's humor in everything, I guess and I had to laugh at that. 

Damn' thing blowed up and scattered big-assed fragments all over Broomfield CO in residential areas.

Why, a person coulda been kilt in that there "uncontained engine failure."

=D

Ahhh, you fem isms.

(Landed safely with applause to the pilots at DIA.)

Terry

REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE90

Edited to correct:  Later information is it was a Pratt and Whitney 4000 112 engine.

Judging from the armor around the fan, they were expecting a fan failure.  Fan diameter a little over 10ft.

   (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/General_Electric_GE90_displayed_at_Farnborough_Air_Show_2008.jpg/717px-General_Electric_GE90_displayed_at_Farnborough_Air_Show_2008.jpg)


PIC CREDIT:
By Dysanovic from Reading, United Kingdom - flickr.com/photos/dysanovic/2678713012, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=52955829
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: BobR on February 20, 2021, 06:26:21 PM
At least most of it stayed on the wing. I recall years ago when a 737 lost the whole damn thing. In fact there were multiple occasions when the mounting bolts on the 737 gave up the ghost in flight.

bob

Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: WLJ on February 20, 2021, 06:29:55 PM
"bound for Honolulu"
Good thing, for the plane, crew, and passengers it didn't happen somewhere over the Pacific
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: Jim147 on February 20, 2021, 08:36:48 PM
"bound for Honolulu"
Good thing, for the plane, crew, and passengers it didn't happen somewhere over the Pacific

They had a spare.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: WLJ on February 20, 2021, 08:41:49 PM
They had a spare.

That DC-10 in Chicago had two spares. But they lost the whole pylon, can't always count on there not being damage to other systems.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on February 20, 2021, 08:47:50 PM
They had a spare.

In the event of the loss of one engine, the second engine will provide enough power to arrive at the scene of your crash.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: WLJ on February 20, 2021, 09:03:44 PM
Yes I know a 777 can fly on one engine but I'm a firm believer in redundancy especially when it comes to the plane I'm flying in and the thought seeing one of the two engines fall apart over Pacific and then limping home on one is not one I like to think about. A few miles from the airport is bad enough.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: Jim147 on February 20, 2021, 09:41:45 PM
I watch Air Disasters on Smithsonian channel. All those years in a single engine plane. I'm glad we never had a problem.

My father was the GM of a radar company. My childhood summers were spent in the air. Winter vacations were in Arizona flying over the desert.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: WLJ on February 20, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
SN9 had a spare   :P
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 20, 2021, 10:20:34 PM
I watch Air Disasters on Smithsonian channel. All those years in a single engine plane. I'm glad we never had a problem.


Many years ago I was dispatched to deliver a set of blueprints to an important client in Florida. Trip down was uneventful, delivery was made, client was happy with the plans. All good.

The client said his private plane was going to be flying back to my home state (also the client's home state) with no passengers, so he suggested that I cancel my commercial reservation and hitch a ride with his pilot. No problem! So, bright and early the next morning we took off in a fairly new twin -- Cessna, I think, but might have been a Piper. (It was a prop job -- no Lear Jet for me). Since there were no passengers, I got to sit in the right seat.

Take-off was uneventful but the pilot seemed to be looking at one part of the instrument panel quite often. We were still climbing out when the pilot SHUT DOWN THE RIGHT ENGINE* and called in a Mayday. Oops. Back we went. He made a picture perfect landing, we taxied back to where we had started, and I prepared to disembark. The pilot was just sitting there, so I asked if he was coming.

"Just as soon as my knees stop shaking," he said.

So, yes ... it's all well and good to have a spare, but even in a twin losing an engine isn't a cakewalk.


* The engine was losing oil pressure and the temperature was climbing rapidly.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 21, 2021, 12:53:53 AM
I suspect we've about reached the size limit on big, fast, high-volume airworthy (i.e., lightweight) fans with our present strength of materials limits, although I know there are near-supersonic ground based wind tunnels.  I guess the hypersonic ones are based on high pressure release...?

I diddled around with how much pulling (forward) force there would be on the fan shaft at only a 1 psi suction in front of the 10 foot diameter of the blade disc with the engine not moving forward.  Neglecting the spinner and hub diameters, that's 79 square feet or 11,310 square inches, times 1 psi = 11,310 pounds of pull on that blade disc.

If my arithmetic is correct.

And that's assuming only a 1 psi suction.  We know it's more than that, or people and baggage carts wouldn't be sucked into them.

Hawkmoon said,

Quote
He made a picture perfect landing, we taxied back to where we had started, and I prepared to disembark. The pilot was just sitting there, so I asked if he was coming.

"Just as soon as my knees stop shaking," he said.

I'd'a had to wait till my pants dried out a little.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 21, 2021, 03:59:05 AM
My initial thought was it pitched a fan blade by the way the inlet ring broke off in 1 piece and landed on the ground.  That’s also what happened to the Southwest 737 engine when one of the fan blade pins fractured. 

Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on February 21, 2021, 05:38:08 AM
Looks like a turbine failure, or maybe a later stage compressor failure.

Only the area around the fan gets extra armor to contain the pieces.  It is the largest and heaviest part.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: WLJ on February 21, 2021, 05:48:51 AM
Looks like a turbine failure, or maybe a later stage compressor failure.

Only the area around the fan gets extra armor to contain the pieces.  It is the largest and heaviest part.

For some strange reason passengers tend to get a little upset when the passenger in the seat next to them has a fan blade go through their head. Just relax and order some drinks, they're usually on the house, or should be, after that.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failkure."
Post by: Andiron on February 21, 2021, 06:26:01 AM
In the event of the loss of one engine, the second engine will provide enough power to arrive at the scene of your crash.

"Probably beat the paramedics there by half an hour!"
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 21, 2021, 06:36:59 AM
(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/02/ezgif.com-gif-maker-3.gif)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Mike Irwin on February 21, 2021, 06:42:18 AM
That's enough to make you soil your pants...
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: WLJ on February 21, 2021, 06:50:07 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlwWM5wFkEYDKhy/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on February 21, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
That's enough to make you soil your pants...

Well,.... close your eyes.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: BobR on February 21, 2021, 09:18:26 AM
(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/02/ezgif.com-gif-maker-3.gif)

That is oretty impressive, I mean the fire is where it belongs, mostly. I  (we) were off of SoCal in a training area in a P3 and the rear turbine oil pump crapped the bed and we ended up with a tailpipe fire. The fire suppression system on the P3 didn't cover the tailpipe so after shutting down the engine the oil that had pooled in the tailpipe continued to burn so there we are lumbering (we didn't streak) across the sky headed to Vandenberg AFB (15K ft runway) to land with a nice smoke trail behind us. The fire crew was very good there, they squirted out the fire, put some pins in our gear and then had us towed to the ramp.

That plane will probably be back in the air by mid-week, if they take their time to repair and allow the investigators to do their thing.

bob
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Cowling done are ewe in oh eff tea.  :O
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 21, 2021, 10:21:55 AM
Cowling done are ewe in oh eff tea.  :O

??? Huh? ??? Whut? ???
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 10:40:52 AM
??? Huh? ??? Whut? ???

It runoft.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: HankB on February 21, 2021, 11:28:33 AM
I talked to a Russian guy who'd flown on Aeroflot on a Soviet-built airliner several decades before. Their safety standards were not up to the rest of the world's. He was on a flight that lost first one, then a second engine . . . but rather than declare an emergency and set down at the nearest airport, they continued on to their destination. No big deal.  :O

He advised that on Aeroflot flights of the day, seating near the lavatories and/or the galley was inadvisable due to overflows when the aircraft banked.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 21, 2021, 12:43:51 PM
Fan looks a little funny windmilling there along with the shake caused by imbalance.  Anything behind the fan would get damaged as well.  Won’t know u til they tear it apart.

One of by favorite Safety classes I took while active duty Air Force was JEMIC (Jet Engine Mishap Investigation Course) back in 2005.

During that class, one engine in particular was an F16 GE engine that was about half the length it was when serviceable.  We had to determine if the damage was pre-mishap or upon impact with the ground.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 21, 2021, 01:13:07 PM
Lennjoe said,

Quote
One of by favorite Safety classes I took while active duty Air Force was JEMIC (Jet Engine Mishap Investigation Course) back in 2005.

Another euphemism that made me laugh, despite the context.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: MechAg94 on February 21, 2021, 02:32:07 PM
(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/02/ezgif.com-gif-maker-3.gif)
But did they run out of coffee?
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: MechAg94 on February 21, 2021, 02:33:26 PM
Cowling done are ewe in oh eff tea.  :O
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/2d/42dccd76-73c3-11eb-a37c-1746d10c419d/603180676b6a2.image.jpg)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: BobR on February 21, 2021, 03:36:30 PM
I wonder if they let him keep it to make a fire ring? It's in pretty good shape for falling off the airplane onto a truck. ;)


Then again, maybe they will give him enough money to paint that place!

bob
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 21, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
A little plastic lining, hey a nice backyard swimming pool for the kids.

Otherwise, hold it for ransom.

I wonder, as a theoretical matter, what authority do the authorities have to seize it if a body wanted to keep it.

The National Uncontained Engine Failure Parts Recovery and Up Yours Act?

(Posted before seeing BobR's observations above. Great mind sthink alike.)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Jim147 on February 21, 2021, 04:16:48 PM
A pair of A-10's fly right oveer the house about once a month. I keep wondering if I could keep the 20 mic mic if they hit one of my trees. With my luck I will get unintened cargo from the stealh bombers that fly over everyday.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 04:43:51 PM
ULA there in Centennial took a surplus payload adapter ring rated for 10,000kg @300G's and have it holding up a glass lunch table in their cafeteria.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 21, 2021, 05:12:14 PM
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-norden-bombsight?variant=12060797763653
 
    (https://nordenbombsightsbymoore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/IMG_5733.jpg)

Quote
Item:
ON5035
 Original U.S. WWII Norden Bombsight
Regular price $2,495.00
 
Sold out

Drat.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Andiron on February 21, 2021, 05:32:31 PM
A pair of A-10's fly right oveer the house about once a month. I keep wondering if I could keep the 20 mic mic if they hit one of my trees. With my luck I will get unintened cargo from the stealh bombers that fly over everyday.

You want nothing to do with the 30mm depleted uranium rnds those shoot,  unless you have a burning desire to glow in the dark.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 06:09:19 PM
You want nothing to do with the 30mm depleted uranium rnds those shoot,  unless you have a burning desire to glow in the dark.

Some ballistic uranium would be nice for my collection.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: lee n. field on February 21, 2021, 06:11:50 PM
Some ballistic uranium would be nice for my collection.

Caliber and grain weight?  Do you have load data for that?
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Jim147 on February 21, 2021, 06:14:12 PM
Didn't notice the mistype on the gun but I was just thinking about pointing the barrels down the driveway. I'm sure the sales people would enjoy it. While they back up very quickly.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Andiron on February 21, 2021, 06:32:28 PM
Didn't notice the mistype on the gun but I was just thinking about pointing the barrels down the driveway. I'm sure the sales people would enjoy it. While they back up very quickly.

Getcherself a GAU8 and not even the Jdubs will mess with your house  >:D
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 07:00:59 PM
Caliber and grain weight?  Do you have load data for that?

Nope.

But I have other forms of uranium, just no DU ballistic alloy.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Andiron on February 21, 2021, 07:05:09 PM
Some ballistic uranium would be nice for my collection.

I haven't ruled out having kids,  those souvenirs are all yours  ;)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 21, 2021, 07:33:00 PM
Ah, the good old days!

(https://i.imgur.com/8ipyFCMm.jpg)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Nick1911 on February 21, 2021, 07:47:43 PM
You want nothing to do with the 30mm depleted uranium rnds those shoot,  unless you have a burning desire to glow in the dark.

Isn't depleted uranium just a pile of dense, very unradioactive, U238? 
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 21, 2021, 08:13:33 PM
Isn't depleted uranium just a pile of dense, very unradioactive, U238?

Less radioactive.  But yeah.

P.S.: This thread is responsible for me losing five hours to videos of home made turbojet engines.  Worth it.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Nick1911 on February 21, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
Less radioactive.  But yeah.

P.S.: This thread is responsible for me losing five hours to videos of home made turbojet engines.  Worth it.

I built one as a kid.  Lots of fun, that.

If you're done with home built turbojet videos, time to move on to valveless pulsejet videos!
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Mike Irwin on February 22, 2021, 04:05:08 AM
A little plastic lining, hey a nice backyard swimming pool for the kids.

Otherwise, hold it for ransom.

I wonder, as a theoretical matter, what authority do the authorities have to seize it if a body wanted to keep it.

The National Uncontained Engine Failure Parts Recovery and Up Yours Act?

(Posted before seeing BobR's observations above. Great mind sthink alike.)

The GAU-8 fires a 30mm round, not 20.

This is a GAU-8 round next to a .30-06...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/30mm_GAU-8_Avenger_round.jpg/450px-30mm_GAU-8_Avenger_round.jpg)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 22, 2021, 04:36:26 AM
Boeing and NTSB grounded the 777.


Many of the 128 jets Boeing recommended to be sidelined while the FAA completes its inspection plan are already in storage. Airlines have mothballed some of the wide-body aircraft they use for long flights because of the coronavirus pandemic, which has weakened demand for travel. Boeing said 69 of the 777 aircraft with certain Pratt & Whitney 4000-series engines are in service.

A preliminary examination by the National Transportation Safety Board showed that two fan blades in one of the United aircraft’s engines were fractured——one nearly entirely and the other about half-broken, the agency said Sunday. The remaining fan blades showed signs of damage, while the airplane also sustained minor damage, the safety board said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-orders-immediate-inspections-after-united-engine-failure-11613952428?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=curated&fb_news_token=Vl7MnTDt79%2Fr9%2BQ0Yva85A%3D%3D.KZqbCouLYSf9lCpH9Xi428M2PKyOh81Pvc2CEyxeWA4Nl%2FUfy%2Bz32sG%2B7tWTFbrdEl0odo9iMsx%2FJQ878DMtzrBRS10jChEukKD2BubcwEok2BQoVIFMAxsK3pvSSRduGsGhv26G%2FPQrfFH3I3p81ZhyODK927%2BOFBuFR4qr5FC8oILwTGf9syFtbRffv8Lkn2w00FUf0vuaMcjGIVNprUwnmg7ABj9ZNDveUU5v2k9OjOLXyVdO5Ae%2But0LzUbpOAGM2vyHEazy6LN1qgAQ0jQk6lb%2FDwhtn72QWrHy3qiShXvuxOCOiXshT7QKr7gW
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 22, 2021, 04:39:13 AM
BTW, we may have used some Depleted Uranium during the first Gulf war but had to download and go straight HEI after the tank threat was taken care of. Didn’t use any during Iraq freedom. 

I have a couple of empty cases and a few mock ups on plaques I received over the years. All from blue tip practice rounds of course....lol
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: AJ Dual on February 22, 2021, 06:33:40 AM
You want nothing to do with the 30mm depleted uranium rnds those shoot,  unless you have a burning desire to glow in the dark.

The Depleted uranium is well encased in the shell, and the uranium is just a weak alpha and beta emitter. Things like paper, cloth etc. will block it. Not to mention whatever cladding is on the shell itself around the DU.

If the rounds are destroyed damaged in a crash, I suppose there could be DU particles spread around. And heavy metal toxicity will get you before the radiation does.

IIRC, some airliners carry a DU weight for trim and balance in the tail so more chances to find it in your yard.  =D
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Mike Irwin on February 22, 2021, 06:59:04 AM
BTW, we may have used some Depleted Uranium during the first Gulf war but had to download and go straight HEI after the tank threat was taken care of. Didn’t use any during Iraq freedom. 

I have a couple of empty cases and a few mock ups on plaques I received over the years. All from blue tip practice rounds of course....lol

British and US forces used, from what I've been able to find, munitions containing over 600,000 pounds of depleted uranium during the first Gulf War.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 22, 2021, 07:41:01 AM
British and US forces used, from what I've been able to find, munitions containing over 600,000 pounds of depleted uranium during the first Gulf War.

The Iraq military had a lot of tanks, APC and associated armor in the beginning so we put plenty of Uranium back into the desert sand  there....;)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: dogmush on February 22, 2021, 07:57:01 AM
The issue with DU is that if you put a 30mm DU round, or a 120mm APFSDS round, through an armored vehicle some of it will get ablated on the way through and settle in fine dust inside (and outside in a fan from the exit hole).  That dust can get blown around, or breathed by folks looking over the wrecks for salvage and breathing in Uranium is not good.  As AJ said, heavy metal toxicity is a bigger problem than any radiation.

You can hold a chunk of it with no ill effects.  Just don't grind on it or give it to a Marine (they put everything in their mouths).
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 22, 2021, 12:01:17 PM
BTW, we may have used some Depleted Uranium during the first Gulf war but had to download and go straight HEI after the tank threat was taken care of. Didn’t use any during Iraq freedom. 

I have a couple of empty cases and a few mock ups on plaques I received over the years. All from blue tip practice rounds of course....lol

The use of DU ammo leaves whatever you shoot a dusty mess of heavy metal poisoning.  The uranium burns to sub micron particulate that laughs at gas mask filters.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: WLJ on February 22, 2021, 12:09:33 PM
I love the smell of uranium in the morning, it smells like...... Chernobyl
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 22, 2021, 12:11:52 PM
I love the smell of uranium in the morning, it smells like...... Chernobyl

Do you taste metal?
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Mike Irwin on February 22, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
I love the smell of uranium in the morning, it smells like...... Chernobyl

But no one loves the smell of Uranus...
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 22, 2021, 12:15:49 PM
Quote
Quote from: Nick1911 on February 21, 2021, 08:47:43 PM

Isn't depleted uranium just a pile of dense, very unradioactive, U238?
I was starting to wonder about that. I thought the major danger was fire  and chemical toxicity when the projectiles splattered. I must be thinking of something else.
 
kgbsquirrel answered:
Quote
Less radioactive.  But yeah.

P.S.: This thread is responsible for me losing five hours to videos of home made turbojet engines.  Worth it.

Then you didn't "lose" five hours, you just used it up.  Now I don't know if I should apologize for the thread or not.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 22, 2021, 12:20:56 PM

 
kgbsquirrel answered:
Than you didn't "lose" five hours, you just used it up.  Now I don't know if I should apologize for the thread or not.

Terry, 230RN

Dude took the turbine rotor and stator from the APU of a tornado fighter bomber and proceeded to build a working turbojet with variable nozzle and afterburner.   [popcorn]
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on February 22, 2021, 07:42:00 PM
What's he going to mount it in?

Correcting my Original Post in this thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE90

Edited to correct:  Later information is it was a Pratt and Whitney PW 4000 112 engine.

I wonder if they still put the traditional penny in their jet engines.

Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 22, 2021, 08:24:33 PM
https://youtu.be/f6JoJj_v9Cs (https://youtu.be/f6JoJj_v9Cs)

Pics of the engine and fuselage. 
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: sumpnz on February 22, 2021, 10:47:52 PM
The GAU-8 fires a 30mm round, not 20.

This is a GAU-8 round next to a .30-06...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/30mm_GAU-8_Avenger_round.jpg/450px-30mm_GAU-8_Avenger_round.jpg)

Bet someone has made a handgun for that.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Lennyjoe on February 23, 2021, 05:15:23 AM
https://youtu.be/f6JoJj_v9Cs (https://youtu.be/f6JoJj_v9Cs)

Pics of the engine and fuselage.

Looks like one of the hollow fan blades fractured and started the chain reaction
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: kgbsquirrel on February 23, 2021, 04:02:23 PM
Looks like one of the hollow fan blades fractured and started the chain reaction

At about second 18 it looks like of the broken blades is stuck in the bottom of the turbine housing.

No exit holes on the inboard face of the engine housing (that I can see) so the damage to the aircraft main body at the wing root was probably from a piece of cowling.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: WLJ on February 24, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
Do you taste metal?

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/20200316_173719.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 02, 2021, 08:32:37 AM
(http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/when-youre-name-is-boeing.jpg)
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 02, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
^ Clever and funny, but unfair. Boeing used several engines on that aircraft.  I picked up somewhere that that type P&W engine had a "history," but not apparently quite enough to declare it not airworthy.

I'm still wondering if P&W still mounts a penny in every engine.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: MillCreek on March 02, 2021, 01:56:47 PM
^^^I am told by my many local Boeing neighbors and friends that modern jet engines are so reliable these days is that all Boeing does is mount the complete engine on the pylons.  They don't do any engine assembly or work other than making sure it starts up and completes the checklist.  As I drive by Paine Field, I often see umounted jet engines, securely shrink-wrapped, sitting on stands outside the assembly building waiting to be mounted on the airframe.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Jim147 on March 02, 2021, 03:37:18 PM
We had to start putting diapers on drag engines years ago. Maybe that would keep a few parts out of yards but maybe a lot more parts in other yards.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 03, 2021, 03:57:12 AM
^^^I am told by my many local Boeing neighbors and friends that modern jet engines are so reliable these days is that all Boeing does is mount the complete engine on the pylons.  They don't do any engine assembly or work other than making sure it starts up and completes the checklist.  As I drive by Paine Field, I often see umounted jet engines, securely shrink-wrapped, sitting on stands outside the assembly building waiting to be mounted on the airframe.

Yeah, I understand (from someone on this board) that they had to extend the usual maintenance inspection periods for piston engines because they were finding almost no wear and tear on the turbines in the usual reciprocating engine inspection cycle times.

Jeeze, 118,000 lb of thrust.  ! !  Did I read that right?  Almost 60 tons.  What do they need a runway for? =D
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: WLJ on March 03, 2021, 04:46:04 AM

Jeeze, 118,000 lb of thrust.  ! !  Did I read that right?  Almost 60 tons.  What do they need a runway for? =D

Barely keeping pace with American weight gain
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 03, 2021, 04:54:04 AM
=D

And they need the runway to stop all that mass on landing.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on March 03, 2021, 06:08:47 AM
Jeeze, 118,000 lb of thrust.  ! !  Did I read that right?  Almost 60 tons.  What do they need a runway for? =D

That is factory-new maximum rated thrust.  As the engine wears, it loses thrust, so a 10 year old engine might only make 95% of that number. 

We don't use maximum thrust for every takeoff, just like you don't use full throttle in your car every time.  Full thrust takeoffs are expensive, so we use the minimum required thrust plus a safety margin in case one engine fails. 
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: dogmush on March 03, 2021, 06:57:35 AM
That is factory-new maximum rated thrust.  As the engine wears, it loses thrust, so a 10 year old engine might only make 95% of that number. 

We don't use maximum thrust for every takeoff, just like you don't use full throttle in your car every time.  Full thrust takeoffs are expensive, so we use the minimum required thrust plus a safety margin in case one engine fails.

Wait, What?  You don't?  Why not?
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Brad Johnson on March 03, 2021, 07:41:18 AM
That is factory-new maximum rated thrust.  As the engine wears, it loses thrust, so a 10 year old engine might only make 95% of that number. 

Oh darn... only one hundred twelve thousand pounds of thrust left. What shall we ever do!?  =D

Brad
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Jim147 on March 03, 2021, 07:46:00 AM
Well not everyone loves a tail scraper take off. Especially if they aren't worried about being shot at.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on March 03, 2021, 10:03:43 AM
Oh darn... only one hundred twelve thousand pounds of thrust left.

Times 2.  Still, the plane has to be able to fly on one engine, so 112,000 lbs thrust isn't that much.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: BobR on March 03, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Wait, What?  You don't?  Why not?

We used different power setting for weights, weather, etc. We set power by Turbine Inlet Temperature. In degrees Celsius we would use 1077 for max t/o, 1010 for reduced power and once light enough and doing touch and goes we would do 950 degrees. It helped prolong the life of the turbine, above 950 degrees   sulfidation  (https://www.pwc.ca/en/airtime-blog/articles/technical-tips/protecting-your-engine-against-sulfidation)on the turbines blade happened much faster. Our cruise TIT was kept at 925 or 950 degrees as long as we could maintain altitude and keep going forward.

bob
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 04, 2021, 07:41:25 AM

sulfidation link per Fly320s dogmush:
https://www.pwc.ca/en/airtime-blog/articles/technical-tips/protecting-your-engine-against-sulfidation

So about this engine-washing to get rid of sulfidation... what do they do, just squirt tons of water into a running engine, or run the blades up to speed by by external power, then squirt it?

(I've seen vids of testing a running engine by squirting lots of water into it to see when it will stall out.  This, to assess behavior in a heavy rainstorm.  Seems like the darn things can ingest a lot of water without gagging.)

(Interesting point about using compressor outlet temp as a running parameter.  Thanks, Fly320s.)

Terry, groundlubber, but loves plane stuff, 230RN

Afterthought:  Not doubting you, but just double-checking.  Those temps in °C you cited seem awfully hot.  Do you really mean °F?
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: sumpnz on March 04, 2021, 09:18:00 AM
Terry - they use a lot of titanium and high temperature steels in those engines.  And remember that’s the gas temperature.  The metals get hot, but not that hot.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on March 04, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
All that fancy talk about TIT ( =D) and sulfidation was from Dogmush, not me.  I just push buttons to make things go.  I aren't smart enough to know how it all works.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: MechAg94 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:19 AM
^^^I am told by my many local Boeing neighbors and friends that modern jet engines are so reliable these days is that all Boeing does is mount the complete engine on the pylons.  They don't do any engine assembly or work other than making sure it starts up and completes the checklist.  As I drive by Paine Field, I often see umounted jet engines, securely shrink-wrapped, sitting on stands outside the assembly building waiting to be mounted on the airframe.
I would think the make them modular so they can do any engine rebuild work in one place instead of needing the rotating equipment technicians all over. 
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: MechAg94 on March 04, 2021, 10:48:20 AM
One of our stationary compressors I used to be involved with had rotating blades.  It wrecked after I was no longer there.  The engineer involved showed me a mangled blade that had "Snap-On" imprinted on it.  A compressor technician left a socket inside the compressor after an overhaul.  Wrecked on start up.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 04, 2021, 01:36:14 PM
All that fancy talk about TIT ( =D) and sulfidation was from Dogmush, not me.  I just push buttons to make things go.  I aren't smart enough to know how it all works.

Oops.  Sorry about that.  With your post ^, I'll let it stand as is to avoid a correction mish mosh.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: Fly320s on March 04, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
I would think the make them modular so they can do any engine rebuild work in one place instead of needing the rotating equipment technicians all over.

Airlines just pull the engines off and ship them out to a vendor for overhaul.  Outsourcing is cheaper.

We can change engines as needed, but the overhaul is time-intensive, expensive work.
Title: Re: "Uncontained Engine Failure."
Post by: 230RN on March 05, 2021, 05:28:39 AM
OK, I reckon it's so.  It just tickled my reality check neurons to think an axial flow compressor could get the gas that hot (the presssure that high.)

A lot of modernity boggles me.  I was watching a bunch of drone videos and those batteries lasting that long surprised me.  Son1 or 2 mentioned that these R/C-ers keep their batteries in steel ammo boxes in case they explode.

Egad.