Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on June 02, 2021, 03:12:32 PM
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-live-in-seattle-but-its-overrun-with-tech-workers-where-can-i-move-that-has-cheap-homes-and-fast-internet-speeds-11622602406
Someone is sick of the tech bros and housing prices in Seattle, and wants to move somewhere with a good airport, healthcare and fast internet. The Midwest comes out very strong in the recommendations.
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Define good airport? We got jet service to Chicago.
They are called ranch homes here, not ramblers.
Actual drive time, I am 2 hours from downtown Minneapolis/St. Paul and 105 minutes from Des Moines. 90 minutes from Mayo Clinic.
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MillCreek - you might want to check out the St. Louis area. St. Charles city, northwest of St. Louis city, is actually closer to the airport and the County is growing by leaps and bounds. I don't know about their level of internet service out there but things are growing so quickly, it may take a little time for cable (Spectrum) to catch up.
The problem is the WEATHER. Being on the northwest side, many storms hit St. Charles county before it reaches St. Louis. This includes thunderstorms, hail, strong winds, etc.
As I'm not a Missourian, I don't know about restrictions local municipalities may put on CC or OC but the state's rules are more relaxed.
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Kansas city is terrible, downright terrible I tell you. Guns everywhere, blood in the streets. Terrible weather. Everyone is a racist.
Please, please don't move here with all your coastal money, BS, politics, and attitudes. :P
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Portland, Newark, Denver, Schaumburg, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Baltimore. The list is long. No reason to F up a good place, they should stay with their kind.
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The person in the article can't just move 50 miles out of Seattle and get the Starlink? Or else there seem to be plenty of blue areas that meet their needs. They would be happy in 80% of California, and much of CA real estate is far cheaper than Seattle.
I agree they need to stay with their own kind. In just a little over a year, I've seen the change around here because of the coastal liberal locusts telecommuters from the covid.
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How many days of the year does Seattle actually look like this?
(https://images.mktw.net/im-347108?width=1260&size=1.913303437967115)
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The person in the article can't just move 50 miles out of Seattle and get the Starlink? Or else there seem to be plenty of blue areas that meet their needs. They would be happy in 80% of California, and much of CA real estate is far cheaper than Seattle.
I agree they need to stay with their own kind. In just a little over a year, I've seen the change around here because of the coastal liberal locusts telecommuters from the covid.
I would ask what they mean by "fast" internet. In some areas, that can vary across a short distance. Healthcare is good in a lot of places depending on what they need. Growing up, we had airports within 100 miles. That was good enough for me, but probably not what this person wants.
Real estate is rising here. I doubt anywhere in the triangle between Houston/Austin/San Antonio would have great land prices.
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How many days of the year does Seattle actually look like this?
(https://images.mktw.net/im-347108?width=1260&size=1.913303437967115)
Probably around 90 days of the year, and you will get your highest chance from the 4th of July through mid-September.
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-live-in-seattle-but-its-overrun-with-tech-workers-where-can-i-move-that-has-cheap-homes-and-fast-internet-speeds-11622602406
Someone is sick of the tech bros and housing prices in Seattle, and wants to move somewhere with a good airport, healthcare and fast internet. The Midwest comes out very strong in the recommendations.
Boise should work for them, or eastern WA. No need to get east of the Rockies!
bob
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Boise should work for them,
Quiet, you.
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Boise should work for them, or eastern WA. No need to get east of the Rockies!
bob
Sign me up for Billings.
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Why do 90% of the responses always a big midwestern metro area. It's seriously cheap AF to live in the midwestern regional small city/big town. The towns that are 2 hours or more from a metro areas but still have all the conveniences because they are a hub.
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I'm 47 road miles from down town Tulsa. I have access to 1 GBPS fiber internet to the home. (100 meg works for my needs) The medical facilities in the next town up the road are as good as any in the first world and if they can't do it there it's only 20-ish more miles to Tulsa.
Theatre, art, nightlife in Tulsa is a good as any 1M+ population center, not that I care for that but it's there.
Pretty decent craft brewery culture in the area and many of them are better than the typical bottle of pine-sol relabeled as an IPA.
Other than that, in my general neighborhood we are red neck AF. Moonshine, meth, the whole nine yards...
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St. Louis is VERY reasonable, and out in the country, for under $500k, you can pretty much pick up a big tacky house...
The city is a patchwork of old money, gentrification, and badlands. I'm in a gentrified area. 20 years ago, it was borderline badlands. I paid $14k for the house, about another $14k to get occupancy. I'm still working on some stuff... I know some folks who bought $10k houses that were basically shells, and dumped in $20-50k a decade or so ago, and now they'd go for over $250k...
This is a few blocks north of me...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3939-Humphrey-St-Saint-Louis-MO-63116/2973897_zpid/
This house is over near the McCloskey's place:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/31-Westmoreland-Pl-Saint-Louis-MO-63108/2989565_zpid/
This is about 20 or so blocks, as the crow flies, north of that $2 million dollar place...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1359-Montclair-Ave-Saint-Louis-MO-63112/2966169_zpid/
Holy Bleep: I just checked Zillow's estimate on my house: $91k... It was in the fifties a couple of years ago.
It's a tiny place, one bedroom, about 700ish square feet.
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I'm 47 road miles from down town Tulsa. I have access to 1 GBPS fiber internet to the home. (100 meg works for my needs) The medical facilities in the next town up the road are as good as any in the first world and if they can't do it there it's only 20-ish more miles to Tulsa.
Theatre, art, nightlife in Tulsa is a good as any 1M+ population center, not that I care for that but it's there.
Pretty decent craft brewery culture in the area and many of them are better than the typical bottle of pine-sol relabeled as an IPA.
Other than that, in my general neighborhood we are red neck AF. Moonshine, meth, the whole nine yards...
I would say that is generally common in most of the US. It is to the South of you also. A lot of those smaller cities/towns have a decent airport within an hour or two also.
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I am similar to RKL in that we are 45 miles north of Seattle, have 300 Mbps connectivity, a feeder airport is 23 miles away, SeaTac airport is 50 miles away, a major hospital is 20 miles away and all of the medical, business and cultural offerings of Seattle are down the road. However, even as far out as we are, housing prices are still very high and the traffic in the area is terrible. With all the issues in downtown Seattle, we go there infrequently.
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I am similar to RKL in that we are 45 miles north of Seattle, have 300 Mbps connectivity, a feeder airport is 23 miles away, SeaTac airport is 50 miles away, a major hospital is 20 miles away and all of the medical, business and cultural offerings of Seattle are down the road. However, even as far out as we are, housing prices are still very high and the traffic in the area is terrible. With all the issues in downtown Seattle, we go there infrequently.
Once again folks are talking about towns in a greater metro area, why don't they talk about towns further out. It's seriously cheap AF to live in those towns and basic needs are met, you might not be able to get avocado toast at the local coffee shop but there is gig internet available. The public schools are usually very good in those towns, so you don't need to send kids to private school, kiddo is probably going to be able to play whatever sport they want since there is usually just enough kids to fill the roster.
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^^^I don't know about the others, but for us, it is so there is a reasonable commuting distance to our jobs. My wife is back in the classroom full time and I am back in the healthcare system full time in the office. Neither of us would have these jobs at these levels available in smaller towns and we cannot do them work from home full time.
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Boise should work for them, or eastern WA. No need to get east of the Rockies!
bob
Friend of mine sent me a news clip from a Boise TV station the other week... Prices are SKYROCKETING in Boise, up something over 30% over the last year and the average time on market for a home right now is in the low single digits.
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^^^I don't know about the others, but for us, it is so there is a reasonable commuting distance to our jobs. My wife is back in the classroom full time and I am back in the healthcare system full time in the office. Neither of us would have these jobs at these levels available in smaller towns and we cannot do them work from home full time.
You're both late in your careers, someone starting out or mid career there is plenty of opportunities here. My circle of friends in town includes teachers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, computer programmers, accountants, pharmacists, bureaucrats, administrators, warehouse workers, factory workers, mechanics, equipment operators, farmers, retail staff, etc.
I moved here mid career because I saw how much cheaper it was than iving in a greater metro area where I was living. I have yet to find a day where there is nothing to do in town, not including the recent covid time.
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They wouldn't like Cincinnati, we are backwards and hey we put chili and cheese on spaghetti and call it a 3 Way. Please stay where you are.
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Friend of mine sent me a news clip from a Boise TV station the other week... Prices are SKYROCKETING in Boise, up something over 30% over the last year and the average time on market for a home right now is in the low single digits.
And all homes in the area are in bidding wars. I was talking to my realtor the other day and she said no homes are selling for asking price. It's affected the outlying areas as well. Even out where I live. My place has gone up so much in the last two years from my purchase price (which I kinda lowballed at the time and still got) that as much as I hate moving and love living here, I'm almost thinking about buying a house and 1000 acres in Alabama or somewhere else cheap and having money left over. :laugh:
I have been hating this. Boise was already making all these stupid "#1 place to live" lists for several years before the covid, but there was still a good mix of conservative/liberals making the move (good mix being more conservatives than libs). Covid has really changed that and now jackasses are all moving in. I'm still far enough out that I should have at least ten years of protection from subdivisions even at this current rate, but I was really hoping for 20-30 years. The other rural place I almost bought has already become a Boise satellite, just because it's between the Boise metro and McCall (popular mountain resort town).
Sometimes I wish I had just moved to Bonner's Ferry up in the Panhandle by the Canadian border, since it still has the reputation as a white supremacy militia town and is avoided by the undesirables. At the time, one of my reasons for moving here was proximity to medical, etc. Now that I've been here over two years, I've gotten so used to minimum 30 minute drives for stuff outside of basics that they are like 10 minute drives where I used to live. Bonners Ferry to the largish town of Sandpoint is 30 minutes, and it's only 1.5 hours to CDA. I drive an hour to go to Boise now, if there's no traffic.
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And all homes in the area are in bidding wars. I was talking to my realtor the other day and she said no homes are selling for asking price. It's affected the outlying areas as well. Even out where I live. My place has gone up so much in the last two years from my purchase price (which I kinda lowballed at the time and still got) that as much as I hate moving and love living here, I'm almost thinking about buying a house and 1000 acres in Alabama or somewhere else cheap and having money left over. :laugh:
I have been hating this. Boise was already making all these stupid "#1 place to live" lists for several years before the covid, but there was still a good mix of conservative/liberals making the move (good mix being more conservatives than libs). Covid has really changed that and now jackasses are all moving in. I'm still far enough out that I should have at least ten years of protection from subdivisions even at this current rate, but I was really hoping for 20-30 years. The other rural place I almost bought has already become a Boise satellite, just because it's between the Boise metro and McCall (popular mountain resort town).
Sometimes I wish I had just moved to Bonner's Ferry up in the Panhandle by the Canadian border, since it still has the reputation as a white supremacy militia town and is avoided by the undesirables. At the time, one of my reasons for moving here was proximity to medical, etc. Now that I've been here over two years, I've gotten so used to minimum 30 minute drives for stuff outside of basics that they are like 10 minute drives where I used to live. Bonners Ferry to the largish town of Sandpoint is 30 minutes, and it's only 1.5 hours to CDA. I drive an hour to go to Boise now, if there's no traffic.
I tried to tell you that you were looking wrong time zone. =D
The same thing is starting here in Pahrump, of all places! It has just gotten worse since they finished the 4 lane road from here to Las Vegas. All of the Californians who were used to a 2-3 hour commute think nothing of an hour to get into Vegas for work. Housing is another reason, here you can still find a house and maybe won't get into bidding war for it. If it isn't the Californians moving in it is just people escaping from Las Vegas and they are nearly as bad.
bob
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One thing to consider: I'm afraid we might be looking at another housing bubble, just a decade and a half from the last one.
There is going to be some major crazy when the Covid stuff starts to go back toward normal. I suspect that more than a few of the folks who have been "working from home" may continue to do that, or... some of their employers may realize that they really weren't all that necessary in the first place...
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I tried to tell you that you were looking wrong time zone. =D
The same thing is starting here in Pahrump, of all places! It has just gotten worse since they finished the 4 lane road from here to Las Vegas. All of the Californians who were used to a 2-3 hour commute think nothing of an hour to get into Vegas for work. Housing is another reason, here you can still find a house and maybe won't get into bidding war for it. If it isn't the Californians moving in it is just people escaping from Las Vegas and they are nearly as bad.
bob
You're gonna hold that over me for the rest of our lives, aren't you? :P =D
Like I said, I still love it here, but have learned that some things I was afraid of regarding someplace like the Panhandle, like too much snow for an old guy, were nothing to be afraid of. I'm really starting to respect that advice some people give about renting someplace for a year to really learn about it. If anything, it doesn't snow enough for me here, and I would not at all mind Bonners Ferry level snow. Also, as mentioned, medical would be just about as easy to get to up there versus living near Boise.
Oh well. I still like it here, and if the subdivisions do head out this way, by that time, because of age, I might not mind downsizing to an acre or two and moving farther into the boonies. I'm still pretty safe for now since I'm still in an "undesirable" location for the hipsters. If they commute to Boise, they want to do it from a couple of other directions.
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One thing to consider: I'm afraid we might be looking at another housing bubble, just a decade and a half from the last one.
There is going to be some major crazy when the Covid stuff starts to go back toward normal. I suspect that more than a few of the folks who have been "working from home" may continue to do that, or... some of their employers may realize that they really weren't all that necessary in the first place...
In the local news media, fora and FB pages, I have been following with interest the conniptions over Seattle dot.com (Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc.) over when and to what degree people are going to be called back to the office. At first, everyone was going to WFH forever, then there was going to be a hybrid model, and now some of the big companies are talking about bringing everyone back to the office. It looks as if there is going to be pushback over knowledge workers returning to the office full time. I wonder how that will play out. I think it may come down to everyone in the office 3 or so days per week.
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In the local news media, fora and FB pages, I have been following with interest the conniptions over Seattle dot.com (Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc.) over when and to what degree people are going to be called back to the office. At first, everyone was going to WFH forever, then there was going to be a hybrid model, and now some of the big companies are talking about bringing everyone back to the office. It looks as if there is going to be pushback over knowledge workers returning to the office full time. I wonder how that will play out. I think it may come down to everyone in the office 3 or so days per week.
That's going to be very interesting and I think change the current real estate dynamic in a lot of places. I think a lot of these people assumed they would be teleworking for life. If you have to do something like three days a week in person, that's going to change the dynamic on where a lot of these people move.
I suppose if you're one of the Google millionaire employees, you could still live much farther away as long as you were close to an airport that did direct flights to Seattle or SanFran or wherever. Boulder or Boise or Austin could still be viable places to live and to fly in to the office from for the three days. If you're making the low six figures or less, you probably want to live a lot closer to work.
I also saw that besides people now looking for large homes again for both family and office space, builders were going back to building McMansions with large office spaces, etc. geared to fulltime teleworkers. That might change as well.
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One thing to consider: I'm afraid we might be looking at another housing bubble, just a decade and a half from the last one.
There is going to be some major crazy when the Covid stuff starts to go back toward normal. I suspect that more than a few of the folks who have been "working from home" may continue to do that, or... some of their employers may realize that they really weren't all that necessary in the first place...
Along with a housing bubble I am thinking just a general collapse of creditors all around. How many people have used their state unemployment and added incentives to stay at home to purchase many things on credit. My daughter is right there with them, she decided that being out of work and getting "free" money was a good time to buy a new car. Well, pretty soon the piper is going to want his money and unless she can find a job she won't have anything to pay with. I have a feeling it is going to be pretty widespread and reasonably ugly in about 6-12 months.
bob
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"And all homes in the area are in bidding wars. I was talking to my realtor the other day and she said no homes are selling for asking price"
Yeah, pretty much the same here in Washington, DC, metro.
I bought my crapshack townhouse in 1993 for $154,900. Three years ago it was appraised at $400,000, and that's under tare value for other homes because the interior is pretty dated at this point.
A house with the identical footprint as mine on the next court over just sold for...
$605,000.
For a crapshack townhouse.
I'm gobsmacked. I just hope it keeps up for the next few years until I'm ready to retire.
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Along with a housing bubble I am thinking just a general collapse of creditors all around. How many people have used their state unemployment and added incentives to stay at home to purchase many things on credit. My daughter is right there with them, she decided that being out of work and getting "free" money was a good time to buy a new car. Well, pretty soon the piper is going to want his money and unless she can find a job she won't have anything to pay with. I have a feeling it is going to be pretty widespread and reasonably ugly in about 6-12 months.
bob
True, but also everyone is hiring like crazy. From fast food to truck drivers to engineers. And bottom-rung wages are going up.
I don't think it's a bubble, because prices are not going to come down. This is inflation happening; it's like how the water recedes a bit right before the big wave knocks you over. Those rising asset prices (houses and stocks) are the approaching wave.
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I don't think it's a bubble, because prices are not going to come down. This is inflation happening; it's like how the water recedes a bit right before the big wave knocks you over. Those rising asset prices (houses and stocks) are the approaching wave.
That too. I'm hearing and reading that many of the "experts" connected to the White House are doing the "all is well" thing about this being very temporary inflation before all the good things start happening thanks to a new administration.
I think it's going to be something more than "temporary" inflation. I'm actually wondering if we won't be heading to high interest rates again. It has to happen at some point. I was disappointed in both Obama and Trump artificially holding interest at such low levels. At some point, ya gotta pay the piper. I think it would have been better to moderate interest rates rather than depress them as much as they did.
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^^^What I wouldn't give for a safe retirement financial instrument paying a decent rate. Savings, money market funds, CDs...... I say let the interest rates go up.
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Tangentially related, with respect to the inflation that's already happening: Goodman HVAC equipment at a local wholesaler took a 7% price increase in march. As of June 1, it took an 8% increase. 15.5% cost increase in three months.
I'm not so much speculating about upcoming inflation, I'm starting to see it hit.
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^^^What I wouldn't give for a safe retirement financial instrument paying a decent rate. Savings, money market funds, CDs...... I say let the interest rates go up.
6% CD rates and 8-10% mortgage rates would be nice.
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^^^What I wouldn't give for a safe retirement financial instrument paying a decent rate. Savings, money market funds, CDs...... I say let the interest rates go up.
I'm with you there. I have complained about that a lot here over the years. At some point, people get too old to do the stock market, and a safe 5% or so can get you through the last years of your life without the market stress.
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^^^What I wouldn't give for a safe retirement financial instrument paying a decent rate. Savings, money market funds, CDs...... I say let the interest rates go up.
I don't know how long it would take but a lot of my TSP is in government securities (low interest right now) but with inflation the chance of those interest rates will going up are a given. This stock market can't last forever although it has been sailing along a lot longer than I thought it would.
bob
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Well, I just bought a gallon of decent hot sauce for under $20...
And I see people in my hipster neighborhood who have been "working from home" actually realizing that they're not going to get to sit in their back yards (which they spent the past year working on, to fung shui them perfectly, all day long, and will have to go back to work. I think we're also going to see the "muscle car" bubble have a problem - Lots of folks spent the past year in their garages with their project cars.
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I don't know how long it would take but a lot of my TSP is in government securities (low interest right now) but with inflation the chance of those interest rates will going up are a given. This stock market can't last forever although it has been sailing along a lot longer than I thought it would.
bob
I note that the G fund only has a 10 year average of 2.04%, but a lifetime (started in 1987) average of 4.82%. It just shows how artificially depressed the rates have been for the last >10 years. I couldn't find a chart that displayed annual rates for the 24 years 1987-2011.
The 4.8% average is a very acceptable return for a very conservative fund. Only making ~2% over the last ten years though, definitely means dipping into your principle over that time to keep up with inflation.
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Once again folks are talking about towns in a greater metro area, why don't they talk about towns further out?
Probably because most of us have little experience with such places. Don't the vast majority of Americans live in the major metro centers, or nearby to same? Perhaps that's also true of APS. It's just statistics, I imagine.
And I see people in my hipster neighborhood who have been "working from home" actually realizing that they're not going to get to sit in their back yards...
Well, not until October, anyway. St Louis summers...
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Meh, it's been pretty decent so far... But the damn fools will be out wearing their tour de france costumes, riding through stop signs and lights, all through the summer...
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MechAge -that picture of Seattle you posted is interesting, esp. as it show how close Seattle is to that ticking time bomb in the background.
I had been thinking of a move to Wyoming but a news story the other day may put that idea out my plans. It seems that Bill Gates and his "green power" company, TerraPower, are planning to build an "experimental" nuclear reactor using molten sodium as a coolant in Wyoming. And in an active seismic zone (Yellowstone) on top of that ! NO THANKS !!
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Probably because most of us have little experience with such places. Don't the vast majority of Americans live in the major metro centers, or nearby to same? Perhaps that's also true of APS. It's just statistics, I imagine.
You'd think that more conservative thinking folks wouldn't want to live in metro areas, I would of figured that the majority of the folks on here were living in smaller cities/towns and rural areas.
Yes, I believe you are right on that the largest percentage of Americans live in metro areas. See that all the time when people try to end the electoral college.
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You'd think that more conservative thinking folks wouldn't want to live in metro areas, I would of figured that the majority of the folks on here were living in smaller cities/towns and rural areas.
No good Indian restaurants outside of the cities
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No good Indian restaurants outside of the cities
Yeah, I've never seen one in a town smaller than 70k, unless its a suburb in a metro area.
This place is in a small town in the middle of Nowheresville, IA. Amazing cuisine.
https://www.scheras.com/
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Yeah, I've never seen one in a town smaller than 70k, unless its a suburb in a metro area.
This place is in a small town in the middle of Nowheresville, IA. Amazing cuisine.
https://www.scheras.com/
Pahrump has one, it's called the Pump House. Weird name but it is the best Indian place in town,
bob
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No good Indian restaurants outside of the cities
One of the things I appreciated about the UK, Indian food was everywhere.
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You'd think that more conservative thinking folks wouldn't want to live in metro areas, I would of figured that the majority of the folks on here were living in smaller cities/towns and rural areas.
I think it's often not that they don't want to, but that they can't, due to work or familial obligations. I moved as soon as I could, even though I would have like to do so ten or more years earlier. I think that even goes for many liberal people. Lots of folks would like to get out of the big metro areas, but may have obligations that make it difficult.
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"You'd think that more conservative thinking folks wouldn't want to live in metro areas, I would of figured that the majority of the folks on here were living in smaller cities/towns and rural areas."
Given what I do, and for whom I do it, my only options are living in metro DC or another, and relatively limited, slate of metro areas, or commuting my ass off for hours a day.
When I retire I'll be out of here and someplace rural and conservative.