Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on June 17, 2021, 11:13:09 PM

Title: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 17, 2021, 11:13:09 PM
I don't get it. We have Martin Luther King Day. If we really needed a day to celebrate the end of slavery, why would it be the date when the news reached a particular city in a particular state, rather than the date of the Emancipation Proclamation?

This makes zero sense to me.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: WLJ on June 17, 2021, 11:15:53 PM
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=64755.0
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 18, 2021, 12:41:13 AM
This is a lot like complaining that Christmas should be celebrated on some other day, because Jesus was likely not born on that specific date. It's a lot of complaining for no good reason.

The better question is, why haven't we had a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery before now? Why did it take a pack of racist Democrats in 2020/2021 to do something that real anti-racists, real Americans should have done already?

And for what it's worth, the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America. If anyone was taught such, the teacher was confused. It only freed slaves in newly-retaken Confederate territory. Slavery was (legally) ended by a later amendment of the constitution.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: cordex on June 18, 2021, 06:01:34 AM
And for what it's worth, the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America. If anyone was taught such, the teacher was confused. It only freed slaves in newly-retaken Confederate territory. Slavery was (legally) ended by a later amendment of the constitution.
Then again, the Emancipation Proclamation directly freed considerably more slaves - though delayed until it could be enforced - than the Thirteenth Amendment.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: dogmush on June 18, 2021, 06:22:58 AM
I [gulp] agree with Perd.  Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: TechMan on June 18, 2021, 07:42:57 AM
I [gulp] agree with Perd. Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?

Well *expletive deleted*it, there goes the universe.  I also agree with Perd.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: French G. on June 18, 2021, 09:56:29 AM
It is a retcon. Until recently it was a very understated and in many places unknown day. It is pushed now because were all racists and orange man bad. Remember that many people first learned the holiday because trump was an evil mastermind to have a white supremacy speech when we should have been celebrating Juneteenth and remembering Tulsa. At least it is a real holiday but in sudden significance it is as manufactured as Kwanzaa.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: WLJ on June 18, 2021, 10:09:59 AM
It is a retcon. Until recently it was a very understated and in many places unknown day. It is pushed now because were all racists and orange man bad. Remember that many people first learned the holiday because trump was an evil mastermind to have a white supremacy speech when we should have been celebrating Juneteenth and remembering Tulsa. At least it is a real holiday but in sudden significance it is as manufactured as Kwanzaa.

Yeah, just about everything I'm seeing on Juneteenth gives me the impression that instead of being a day of celebration for all Americas which it should be it's largely morphed into just another excuse, as if they needed another, to remind whites how unforgivably racist they still are. That's my only beef with it, otherwise I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: MechAg94 on June 18, 2021, 10:37:31 AM
Juneteenth has been around down in the Houston area for quite a long time.  I recall local news talking about it when I was young if my memory is working.  I always heard it was supposed to be when news of the emancipation proclamation reach Galveston, TX and other nearby ports so it was over several days.  I always thought it was a local thing.   

Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: TommyGunn on June 18, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
I [gulp] agree with Perd.  Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?

That's good enough for me. >:D  But it has a lot to do with the two twits at the top of the .... "party."   :mad:  [barf] [barf] [barf] [barf]
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 18, 2021, 10:51:51 AM
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/077/039/026/original/7cb34cd7b031752b.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: TommyGunn on June 18, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/077/039/026/original/7cb34cd7b031752b.jpg)

Now,  there's   something I can get behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:D =D
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: French G. on June 18, 2021, 11:23:14 AM
Kente cloth pandering for votes. Anything to keep the news cycle off of minorities giving up on the dems.

Or lets put it this way, only local mention I heard this year for Juneteenth is a local restaurant owned by SJWs doing something for it. How do I know they are SJWs? Advertising a vaccine clinic at the restaurant. Yeah... wanna bet on their melanin levels? Virtue signaling bs.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Ben on June 18, 2021, 11:24:20 AM
I'm pretty sure last year, maybe the year before, was the first I had ever even heard of Juneteenth.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: French G. on June 18, 2021, 12:16:09 PM
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Juneteenth (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Juneteenth)
Google Trends on the term.

You want to emphasize what holiday you find important that is what America is all about. This though is the perfect crime. No public figure can come out and say we didnt even know about the holiday two years ago. Racist. Overton window moved.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: dogmush on June 18, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
I believe we had a thread on this before (it really seems familiar), and showed that it was reasonably well known prior to the current buzz.  It seems like it was regional (to the south) and Cultural (to predominantly black communities), but once it hit twitter all the lily-white liberals that don't actually know any black folks had to google it.

It's certainly been a thing I was aware of for at least two decades in central FL.  Pretty much all the churches around here have some sort of big thing, and there are usually a block party in one of the 'hoods.  I also remember Juneteenth being a thing at the community center on Ft Richardson when I lived there as a kid in the late 80's.  I guess the Army was just being super woke back then as well.

Even with the regional and sub-cultural ties I wouldn't have called Juneteenth (pre 2018) any more obscure than Da de los Muertos.


If you think it gives [scary voice] The Other Side [/scary voice] the ability to call you racist, then perhaps stop grumbling and go to one of the picnics tomorrow.  Around here you want to try the ribs and the smoked mullet, although I suspect the good dishes are regional as well.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Ben on June 18, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
I believe we had a thread on this before (it really seems familiar), and showed that it was reasonably well known prior to the current buzz.  It seems like it was regional (to the south) and Cultural (to predominantly black communities), but once it hit twitter all the lily-white liberals that don't actually know any black folks had to google it.


I may have been that thread starter as I remember starting one here because I hadn't heard of it before it hit the news so much. Even in my old uber liberal California field office, I don't ever recall hearing the term, so it must have been regional until the last couple of years. I also don't recall seeing fed.gov employee emails about it that I remember. Though they always sent out so many "celebrate 'X' month" emails that I never really paid attention and just hit delete.

EDIT: Yes, I did a thread:
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=62426.0
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: zxcvbob on June 18, 2021, 12:50:11 PM
I grew up near Houston, so have known about and low-key-celebrated Juneteenth for a long time.  (Usually have watermelon and barbecued chicken)  I don't go to any parties because they are not my party, but I celebrate with them in spirit just the same.  It's annoying that a bunch of racist Democrats have coopted the day to pander to Yankee blacks that never even heard of Juneteenth until a year or two ago -- but it's still a good holiday.

ETA: "Even in my old uber liberal California field office, I don't ever recall hearing the term, so it must have been regional until the last couple of years."  It's a regional holiday that I think started in Houston, Texas; I believe at Emancipation Park.  It has been a state holiday for several (I don't know how many) years.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Bogie on June 18, 2021, 12:59:54 PM
Just remember - if you have a conversation at work about it... "Oh, that's when the Republicans freed the slaves."
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: WLJ on June 18, 2021, 01:03:12 PM
Just remember - if you have a conversation at work about it... "Oh, that's when the Republicans freed the slaves."

from the democrats. Trouble is the dems have since figured out a work-around.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: griz on June 18, 2021, 04:00:23 PM
I don't get it. We have Martin Luther King Day. If we really needed a day to celebrate the end of slavery, why would it be the date when the news reached a particular city in a particular state, rather than the date of the Emancipation Proclamation?

This makes zero sense to me.

The end of slavery was indeed a gradual thing.  Part of it was communication, for instance there were US citizens that didn't know the Civil war was over until months afterward.  And partly it was because there were still slaves in a couple northern states after June 19th that weren't freed until the 13th amendment.  But since the end of slavery in this country is worth celebrating we might as well use a date that has some historical basis as being celebrated already, and for a long time Juneteenth has been that date with people who were directly affected.  It was even made a state holiday in Texas in 1980, so it's not something they just come up with off the top of their heads.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 18, 2021, 05:16:15 PM
The end of slavery was indeed a gradual thing.  Part of it was communication, for instance there were US citizens that didn't know the Civil war was over until months afterward.  And partly it was because there were still slaves in a couple northern states after June 19th that weren't freed until the 13th amendment.  But since the end of slavery in this country is worth celebrating we might as well use a date that has some historical basis as being celebrated already, and for a long time Juneteenth has been that date with people who were directly affected.  It was even made a state holiday in Texas in 1980, so it's not something they just come up with off the top of their heads.

Yes, this.

I already knew about Juneteenth, but then I already knew the word "dotard." The two things that made me feel smart in the past 5 years.

Oh, I forgot about voting for President OrangeManBad in 2016, and not buying into all the anti-Trump hoaxes since then. So I guess I should feel real smart, then.   :lol:

Also, conspiracy bro at work seems convinced there will be Juneteenth-related violence. I haven't yet figured out if that's racist, or just realist.  =(
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 18, 2021, 05:18:29 PM
June 19th is as good a day as any.

We celebrate "Independence Day" celebrating the signing of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, 1776. The fledgling USofA didn't really fully secure independence until the Treaty of Paris was signed on September 3, 1783. I can see almost as much justification for celebrating our independence on June 17th to commemorate the battle of Bunker Hill or October 17th marking Cornwallis's surrender at Yorktown.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: cordex on June 18, 2021, 05:33:12 PM
For nearly all of its history this has been mostly a regional celebration.
Regardless of its importance to people living in a particular region, it isn't at all the obvious date to celebrate the freeing of slaves on a national level.
It only very recently became a national thing.
Many of its recent advocates have a storied history of using semantic overloading to conflate objectively good things with evil things (i.e. Black Lives Matter).
To someone unused to it, the name sounds kind of stupid.

Given all that, I totally understand why some people are a little hesitant to jump aboard.  However, as has been said it's a worthy thing to celebrate and while I could certainly argue for other dates I can't think of a reason that June 19th shouldn't be used.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Bogie on June 18, 2021, 07:00:54 PM
If someone can come up with a reason to "justify" looting, you can bet that this will be an excuse for a "celebration."
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Andiron on June 18, 2021, 11:08:46 PM
Black history month,  MLK Day, Juneteenth, Kwanza.  Why not just have a monthly manufactured celebration of blacks?   We've got memorials to George Floyd, I bet we can come up with enough bullshit to make this happen.  We don't even have to make new holidays,  just re badge existing ones...  Anyone remember Columbus day?

Burn it all down.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: BobR on June 18, 2021, 11:13:32 PM
Juneteenth, just in time for Orange Crush at Jacksonville Beach.

You have to think an event may be concerning when you start emptying the local jail in anticipation of filing it up with party goers. What is Orange Crush you ask, well it is an event that was moved from Tybee Island to Jax Beach. Orange Crush Festival is a loosely organized 3-day beach weekend that draws a largely Black college-age crowd, many from the greater Atlanta area, according to the event's website.

Besides emptying the jail some local businesses are closing down because they can't "find staff to work", wink, wink.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/jacksonville-sheriffs-office-says-it-is-moving-inmates-out-jail-ahead-orange-crush/MXWWFHQPZ5EFHFHDBH5TEMAGYE/

And along comes the NAACP.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/jacksonville-sheriffs-office-says-it-is-moving-inmates-out-jail-ahead-orange-crush/MXWWFHQPZ5EFHFHDBH5TEMAGYE/

Happy Orange Crusheenth!!

bob

Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 19, 2021, 12:55:41 AM
This is a lot like complaining that Christmas should be celebrated on some other day, because Jesus was likely not born on that specific date. It's a lot of complaining for no good reason.

The better question is, why haven't we had a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery before now? Why did it take a pack of racist Democrats in 2020/2021 to do something that real anti-racists, real Americans should have done already?

And for what it's worth, the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America. If anyone was taught such, the teacher was confused. It only freed slaves in newly-retaken Confederate territory. Slavery was (legally) ended by a later amendment of the constitution.

It still doesn't make sense to base the holiday on the date when one holdout city finally got the word.

As a comparison, at the end of WW2 there were some Japanese units and individual soldiers on smaller islands throughout the Pacific who held out for some time after the war was officially ended. We don't celebrate the end of WW2 on the date when the last Japanese holdout finally surrendered (or was killed), we observe the date when the official document was signed.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: zxcvbob on June 19, 2021, 01:05:20 AM
It still doesn't make sense to base the holiday on the date when one holdout city finally got the word.

As a comparison, at the end of WW2 there were some Japanese units and individual soldiers on smaller islands throughout the Pacific who held out for some time after the war was officially ended. We don't celebrate the end of WW2 on the date when the last Japanese holdout finally surrendered (or was killed), we observe the date when the official document was signed.

It made sense for the Texas state holiday.  (I think the proclamation affected the whole state not just Galveston)  A few other states and now the feds culturally appropriated it.  December 6 makes more sense for a national holiday (when the 13th Amendment was ratified,) OTOH June is a better time for a barbecue or fish-fry and watermelons are in season. :)
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 19, 2021, 01:44:43 AM
It still doesn't make sense to base the holiday on the date when one holdout city finally got the word.

As a comparison, at the end of WW2 there were some Japanese units and individual soldiers on smaller islands throughout the Pacific who held out for some time after the war was officially ended. We don't celebrate the end of WW2 on the date when the last Japanese holdout finally surrendered (or was killed), we observe the date when the official document was signed.


I think you may be missing the historical context that people have been observing Juneteenth for over 150 years. And not because the date was significant to the entire country, but because it was very important to them, and to their descendants, and other people who wanted to celebrate with them. That's the kind of grassroots foundation, and tradition, and history, that makes a holiday meaningful, and not just another excuse to take the day off, and have corny sales gimmicks at all the furniture stores. (Not to say that won't happen to Juneteenth eventually. Or maybe, in Texas, it already has. Don't know)

If the U.S. government of 2021 is going to declare a holiday to observe the freeing of the slaves all over the country, I just don't think it makes sense to ignore everything the pre-existing, regional holiday has going for it, just so we can celebrate on a historically correct day from a history book, which no one knows about, because no one's ever celebrated it before. I don't see why we'd pass up that kind of authenticity.

To go back to the Christmas analogy, what if we found out that most Christians didn't celebrate Christmas until, say, 200 AD? And then we found out December 25th was chosen, because that was the day in 50 AD, when some church in an obscure corner of the world found out about Christ's virgin birth, and they've been celebrating Christmas on that date, ever since. The rest of the Christians liked the celebration, so they just joined in on the 25th, and so it is. I get that it's not a perfect comparison, because we don't know the date of Christ's birth, but we can find out the date of the thirteenth amendment abolition. In either case, do we really gain that much by ignoring an established tradition, or trying to move it to some more accurate date on the calendar? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: cordex on June 19, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
You make a good point. Okay, I agree Perd, December 25th is a silly day to celebrate Christmas.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 19, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
You make a good point. Okay, I agree Perd, December 25th is a silly day to celebrate Christmas.

Christmas truthers - unite!!
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Andiron on June 19, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
Juneteenth, just in time for Orange Crush at Jacksonville Beach.

You have to think an event may be concerning when you start emptying the local jail in anticipation of filing it up with party goers. What is Orange Crush you ask, well it is an event that was moved from Tybee Island to Jax Beach. Orange Crush Festival is a loosely organized 3-day beach weekend that draws a largely Black college-age crowd, many from the greater Atlanta area, according to the event's website.

Besides emptying the jail some local businesses are closing down because they can't "find staff to work", wink, wink.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/jacksonville-sheriffs-office-says-it-is-moving-inmates-out-jail-ahead-orange-crush/MXWWFHQPZ5EFHFHDBH5TEMAGYE/

And along comes the NAACP.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/jacksonville-sheriffs-office-says-it-is-moving-inmates-out-jail-ahead-orange-crush/MXWWFHQPZ5EFHFHDBH5TEMAGYE/

Happy Orange Crusheenth!!

bob

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/57341696/thats-racist-.jpg)

  :police:

I'm not even from Florida and I know about Jacksonville..
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: cordex on June 19, 2021, 04:03:08 PM
Christmas truthers - unite!!
[tinfoil](https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/mp/designs/1009328363,width=178,height=178/cute-christmas-smiley-emoticon-smiling-face-santa.png)
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: JTHunter on June 20, 2021, 12:13:13 AM
Don't mind me if I do an "Ebenezer" about this - BAH !  HUMBUG !!  :old: >:D [barf]
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Fly320s on June 20, 2021, 05:49:20 AM
Don't mind me if I do an "Ebenezer" about this - BAH !  HUMBUG !!  :old: >:D [barf]

Which part do you bah and humbug?  The selected date of June 19th or the idea of celebrating an end to slavery?
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2021, 11:22:50 AM
https://babylonbee.com/news/congress-passes-law-to-recognize-juneteenth-the-day-republicans-freed-all-the-democrats-slaves

Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2021, 12:04:50 PM
(https://media.patriots.win/post/HmCWfIrk.jpeg)
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: dogmush on June 21, 2021, 03:22:44 PM
^^

That pretty neatly sums up all the liberal white women I know.
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Ben on June 22, 2021, 11:00:35 AM
I guess juneteenth will be celebrated the same way as when cops shoot a black person.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/06/22/black-community-leaders-defend-the-police-after-4-arrested-at-a-juneteenth-celebration-in-long-branch-nj/
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: JTHunter on June 23, 2021, 11:51:37 PM
Which part do you bah and humbug?  The selected date of June 19th or the idea of celebrating an end to slavery?

Both !
It is another case of pandering to a minority, much like "affirmative action".
  [barf]
Title: Re: Why Juneteenth?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2021, 12:20:34 AM
Both !
It is another case of pandering to a minority, much like "affirmative action".
  [barf]

The minority who disapprove of slavery? Yeah, screw those guys!  :rofl: