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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2021, 12:11:51 AM

Title: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2021, 12:11:51 AM
https://nypost.com/2021/07/01/lapd-bomb-squad-truck-explodes-during-firework-detonation-event/

Quote
The enormous blast came after authorities confiscated over 5,000 pounds of illegal fireworks from a South Los Angeles home. One person was arrested, according to CBSLA and the LAPD.
---------------------------
“Some of the fireworks were being stored in our Bomb Squad trailer as a precautionary measure. Unknown at this time what caused an explosion,” the department said.

https://youtu.be/1L4LgDbkr7c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3A9wQcsDA

There might have been more in there besides black cats.  However, I don't know what that bomb truck is designed to handle.

Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: 230RN on July 03, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Good thing it wasn't near a warehouse full of AN.*

I think I read in Jack Kelly's Gunpowder book that even black powder will show detonation characteristics if there's more than about 25lb involved.  I think that's for an open pile of it though.  (Could have been Hatcher, IDR.) I don't know what happens if you have 5000lb of it cased up in fire crackers and aerial salutes and like that there. I think that much of it is supposed to be in a magazine.

Great book, by the way:

https://www.amazon.com/Gunpowder-Alchemy-Bombards-Pyrotechnics-Explosive/dp/0465037186

Very thorough, very readable.

Terry, 230RN

*Search "Beiirut explosion"
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: JTHunter on July 03, 2021, 09:58:08 PM
IIRC, most firecrackers are filled with aluminum powder, not black powder.
Years ago (before I wised up), I would take used roman candle tubes, clean out the inside with a wooden dowel, then cut the tube into 3 pieces.  I would pack a piece of paper towel in one end, nearly fill it with some 4F BP, then pack more wadding on top.  I would indent the wadding slightly so I could put a little glue in the ends of the tube.  After it dried, I used an ice pick to make a small hole in the middle of the side and insert a piece of water-proof cannon fuse.
Being BP, they make a nice loud bang with a fair amount of smoke - usually.
  ;)
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: 230RN on July 04, 2021, 01:15:47 PM
IIRC, most firecrackers are filled with aluminum powder, not black powder.
Years ago (before I wised up), I would take used roman candle tubes, clean out the inside with a wooden dowel, then cut the tube into 3 pieces.  I would pack a piece of paper towel in one end, nearly fill it with some 4F BP, then pack more wadding on top.  I would indent the wadding slightly so I could put a little glue in the ends of the tube.  After it dried, I used an ice pick to make a small hole in the middle of the side and insert a piece of water-proof cannon fuse.
Being BP, they make a nice loud bang with a fair amount of smoke - usually.
  ;)

You are right, I mis-spoke.  Most fireworks are filled with variants of flash powder: Aluminum and Potassium chlorate or perchlorate and sometimes sulfur...plus the coloring agents.  The sparkles are usually titanium chips.

You used to be able to buy flash powder directly from ads in the photography magazines.

The lifting charges are, however, black powder.  Forgive me; I just had black powder on my mind. 
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: 230RN on July 04, 2021, 01:24:05 PM
Double post
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Angel Eyes on July 04, 2021, 10:56:20 PM
From a friend of mine:  "You know you're buying good fireworks when the seller gives you a high four."

Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: 230RN on July 04, 2021, 11:26:26 PM
^ roffle

Coat-tailing on that:

And whose nickname is "Lefty."
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 05, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
Update: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/07/05/authorities-charge-Los-Angeles-man-following-fireworks-explosion-that-inured-17-people/6911625472145/

The clown had 32,000 pounds of fireworks and explosives stashed in his home and yard. If anything had set that off, the crater would have swallowed half the city.

God only knows what all was in that pile. Supposedly the bomb squad had ten pounds in the truck when they blew it, and the truck was supposed to be rated for 50 pounds (of what I'm not sure -- black powder? TNT? Nitroglycerine?).
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: RoadKingLarry on July 05, 2021, 05:34:54 PM
Quote
If anything had set that off, the crater would have swallowed half the city.

It's Los Angeles, I'm having a hard time seeing the downside there   :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: WLJ on July 05, 2021, 05:38:24 PM
If anything had set that off, the crater would have swallowed half the city.

It's Los Angeles, I'm having a hard time seeing the downside there   :rofl: :rofl:

That still leaves the other half
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: RoadKingLarry on July 05, 2021, 05:40:48 PM
Every journey begins with but a single step.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Brad Johnson on July 05, 2021, 05:41:01 PM
Update: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/07/05/authorities-charge-Los-Angeles-man-following-fireworks-explosion-that-inured-17-people/6911625472145/

The clown had 32,000 pounds of fireworks and explosives stashed in his home and yard.


 :O

Brad
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: bedlamite on July 05, 2021, 05:53:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgbzGA7s8w
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: BobR on July 05, 2021, 06:25:16 PM
Update: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/07/05/authorities-charge-Los-Angeles-man-following-fireworks-explosion-that-inured-17-people/6911625472145/

The clown had 32,000 pounds of fireworks and explosives stashed in his home and yard. .

Madre de todas las bombas de garaje     :O


bob
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: MechAg94 on July 06, 2021, 09:40:14 AM
It's Los Angeles, I'm having a hard time seeing the downside there   :rofl: :rofl:
I seem to remember reading L.A. covers over 400 square miles.  It would take a sizeable nuke to cover half the city.  That is a bit beyond normal fireworks. 
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: RoadKingLarry on July 06, 2021, 09:54:20 AM
I seem to remember reading L.A. covers over 400 square miles.  It would take a sizeable nuke to cover half the city.  That is a bit beyond normal fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: MechAg94 on July 06, 2021, 09:59:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo
You have to admit, it would be a bit of a tragic joke if someone put a nuke in a bomb disposal trailer and set it off.  (only in LA or other select location)
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 19, 2021, 10:40:29 PM
Apparently the bomb squad made a slight miscalculation ...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/la-officers-who-caused-giant-blast-with-fireworks-likely-made-significant-miscalculation/ar-AAMl3xV
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: WLJ on July 19, 2021, 11:21:13 PM
Apparently the bomb squad made a slight miscalculation ...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/la-officers-who-caused-giant-blast-with-fireworks-likely-made-significant-miscalculation/ar-AAMl3xV

Close enough for equity
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: griz on July 20, 2021, 06:40:32 AM
From the article:

Quote
adding that the officers also appear to have miscalculated the weight of the explosives they used to cause the controlled blast.

I have no experience with blowing up things, but wouldn't knowing the weight of the explosives you are using be kind of a Bomb Squad 101?  That would be like a baker miscalculating a cup of flour.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: French G. on July 20, 2021, 12:21:58 PM
I still think we aren’t getting the full story. Says they miscalculated by a factor of two. Most things designed to contain explosions such as guns or pressure vessels are proofed at double the working load.  I am reminded of so government employees who maintained a remote bombing range and had C-4 to break up the concrete practice bombs. They wanted a tree gone and decided C-4 was the answer. Nobody knew how much so after careful deliberation they settled on 50lbs. Not sure if any of the tree hit the space station.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Brad Johnson on July 20, 2021, 12:31:44 PM
It was stable enough to carry to the truck but not stable enough to place on a scale? Does not compute, Will Robinson.

Brad
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: French G. on July 20, 2021, 03:25:36 PM
It was stable enough to carry to the truck but not stable enough to place on a scale? Does not compute, Will Robinson.

Brad

Police department has redshirts too.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: cordex on July 28, 2021, 11:54:10 AM
A more recent report I read indicated that the "explosive weight" is a conversion from the actual weight of the explosives to TNT equivalent, so it isn't as simple as setting the fireworks on a bathroom scale and seeing what comes out.  They had to estimate the weight of the flash powder inside the fireworks and then convert it.

They also said they estimated weight instead of weighing each one to reduce handling of the devices.

In any case, they messed up but good.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: MechAg94 on July 28, 2021, 12:19:45 PM
Sounds like they would have been better advised to haul it in small lots out to a remote place to dispose of it. 
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: French G. on July 28, 2021, 02:15:36 PM
Sounds like they would have been better advised to haul it in small lots out to a remote place to dispose of it.

Being a cops kid in the good old days meant dad brought fun stuff home.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: Bogie on July 29, 2021, 02:35:55 AM
Had a neighbor who was Kentucky State Police. We helped him dispose of some.
 
Had a college roomie who was a deputy sheriff... He always had good weed.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: RocketMan on July 29, 2021, 09:27:32 AM
Back in my high school days in Issaquah, WA, we had a neighbor that was a big wig in the Seattle PD.  He'd often bring some good fireworks home for July 4th.
Title: Re: LAPD bomb squad truck explodes during fireworks detonation, injuring 17
Post by: AJ Dual on July 29, 2021, 02:40:12 PM
A more recent report I read indicated that the "explosive weight" is a conversion from the actual weight of the explosives to TNT equivalent, so it isn't as simple as setting the fireworks on a bathroom scale and seeing what comes out.  They had to estimate the weight of the flash powder inside the fireworks and then convert it.

They also said they estimated weight instead of weighing each one to reduce handling of the devices.

In any case, they messed up but good.

I doubt even that.

I still think they just loaded the TCV up with whatever fit, and figured it was non-explosive/low explosive and didn't count, estimate, or weigh anything, plus they probably threw in one of their own demolition/disposal charges in there to make sure "it all went off".