Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: just Warren on September 09, 2021, 02:41:33 PM
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...they stop and interview. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/08/revealed-los-angeles-police-officers-gathering-social-media)
This is horrible and will and probably has been abused.
Of course you are under no obligation to give them that stuff regardless of what they tell you.
I'm guessing that if the LAPD gets away with it it will spread to other agencies.
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And non-police are labeled civilians. Does that mean the LAPD is now an official military organization?
A lot of complete and utter crap in that Guardian story.
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And non-police are labeled civilians. Does that mean the LAPD is now an official military organization?
I know that there are bigger worries in the greater scheme of things, but this has irked me for a long while. It's not even completely the fault of LE, even though many of them promote it. It has become so common in news reporting and even TV and movies, that people think nothing of it, even though that separation is actually a pretty big deal. I wonder how cops would like it if they suddenly found themselves under the UCMJ as well?
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The phrase "*expletive deleted*ck Off, Pig" comes to mind.
On another note, that card says:
IF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IS REQUESTED THE FOLLOWING DISCLAIMER MUST BE READ:
"Federal Law requires you to be informed, when asked for your Social Security Number, that it must be provided for use in identification. Authority for requiring this information is based upon field interview procedures operational prior to January 1, 1975"
That would seem to be contrary to the Stop and Identify statutes which only require you to state your name. Is there an actual Federal Law that requires you to disclose your SSN?
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https://www.justice.gov/opcl/overview-privacy-act-1974-2020-edition/ssn
Interesting.
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If I've read that correctly, and there's a chance I haven't, not only can an agency not ask you for your SSN under most conditions but you can sue the agency for asking but not the individual who asked.
So the flatfoots who get tasked with asking are immune but the LAPD isn't.
However, what if you point out that it's illegal to ask you, they insist, you refuse and get arrested, can you then sue the officer because you pointed out that it is illegal to ask?
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
^^^What Dogmush said. This explains why the LAPD cites their field interview procedures in effect before 1/1/1975.
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
If the "system" wasn't passed by the legislature and signed into law by the executive branch, exactly HOW are YOU required to yield that information?
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Damned if I know. That's just what it says.
Federal, state, and local agencies may deny an individual a right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose the individual’s social security number if required under statute or regulation adopted prior to January 1, 1975, and used to verify the identity of an individual
I guess they had a regulation or statue before I was born.
If there's one thing experience teaches me, it's that Americans aren't nearly as free as we like to think we are.
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
But that's only for certain occupational purposes. Not for every rando citizen that Officer Nosypants has a chat with.
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
It's not quite that simple.
(2) theprovisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to—
(A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
(B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual.
(b) Any Federal, State, or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it.” Section 7 of the Privacy Act of 1974, as amended, 5 U.S.C. § 552a note (Disclosure of Social Security Number)).
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Name, rank, serial number
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That's not what I read.
If they have a system from before 1975, that uses SSN's, then you are required to give it to them if they ask. They are grandfathered in from before the Privacy Act of 1974.
"I was born after 1975 so I would not be present in any such system."
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My password is Cee Lo Green.
You can figure the rest out.
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On the back of my SSN card it explicitly states the number is not to be used for identification. So much for that regulation.
Of course, my card is the original I received in 1972 or thereabouts. I don't know if current cards stipulate that.
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I'm sorry, officer, I don't carry my SS card with me, no I don't remember the number. No, I don't have a Facebook account. Twitter? Nope. Instagram? Why do you think I would have that?
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I'm sorry, officer, I don't carry my SS card with me, no I don't remember the number. No, I don't have a Facebook account. Twitter? Nope. Instagram? Why do you think I would have that?
Remember, they can lie to you, but it's illegal for you to lie to them.
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Want that information from me?
Get a court order.
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Want that information from me?
Get a court order.
The point is moot because I doubt you go to LA very often, but the whole discussion we are trying to have is weather or not they need a court order, or if they can just throw you in jail for not complying with "field interview procedures in place before 1975".
I guess the germane question is are those "procedures" codified in LA city law or regulation, or are they an LAPD policy? My Google Fu is failing to find a law but that doesn't mean it's not there. Occam's Razor would make me think that as many lawyers as there are in LA, if the LAPD didn't have the authority under the privacy act exemption, they'd have been sued by now.
Either way, I didn't know about those exemptions to the privacy act, so at least I learned something today.
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I was talking the concept, not specifically travel to L.A.
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Your concept appears flawed.
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They literally can throw you in jail for just about any reason they want to. The question is whether they can keep you or not based on the reason they threw you into jail in the first place.
If you're comfortable handing over your social media accounts and the like, that's your issue.
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Remember, they can lie to you, but it's illegal for you to lie to them.
Go ahead, try and find my Facebook page.
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Go ahead, try and find my Facebook page.
Is it linked to your Tik-Tok?
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Is it linked to your Tik-Tok?
Here's my Tik-Tok:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwatchbrandsshop.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FSeiko-Mens-SNDC33-Classic-Black-Leather.jpg&hash=6c661bd8525dcbab0d3d86a369ee2616151be14b)
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Here's the original tik-toker:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.rapgenius.com%2Fcoax82zq8536hqk2jjjgfsyum.315x436x1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
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On the back of my SSN card it explicitly states the number is not to be used for identification. So much for that regulation.
Of course, my card is the original I received in 1972 or thereabouts. I don't know if current cards stipulate that.
My card says that as well but it is so old that it has the address I had when I was NINE !!
Of course, guess what my college used for their ID number. :facepalm:
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Your SSN was also your driver license number a while back in Ky before they changed it after people complained. They would even mail out renewal notices with your SSN printed on the outside of the envelope :facepalm:
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Virginia also used the SSN as a license number, but at least gave you the option of opting out and getting an unrelated number, which I did.
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Not even Medicare uses your SSN as your Medicare number any more.