Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Brad Johnson on September 28, 2021, 12:00:08 PM
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Lt. Col Stuart Scheller, the Marine who dared demand accountability from his superiors over the Afghanistan debacle, has been jailed pending court martial.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/outspoken-marine-officer-went-viral-blasting-military-leaders-afghanistan-jailed
If the military is trying to piss off every member service member who ever served, regardless of branch, they seem to be doing a good job. Talked to a senior officer at the local Reserve station who used to be on one of my crews. He is furious and says most every member of their unit feels the same way.
Brad
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They really really are trying to provoke the white insurrectionists they need to disarm us.
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So the effers couldn't even let him just retire for the good of the service.
Despicable.
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So... I have to wonder...
How many tankers are within an easy drive of DC?
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I wonder hows he being treated? It is disappointing that other officers and NCO's cooperated , it makes me think that most would turn against the civilians in an gun confiscation scheme
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It is disappointing that other officers and NCO's cooperated
I believe that when given the choice of enforcing unconstitutional orders or facing loss of paycheck and/or arrest, the majority of law enforcement and military will default to their paycheck.
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I believe that when given the choice of enforcing unconstitutional orders or facing loss of paycheck and/or arrest, the majority of law enforcement and military will default to their paycheck.
History would say you are correct. And if the people are sifted for compliance, more so. Sifted for wokeness, and ideology, even more so. Sift far enough and entire units of einstazgruppen can be found. that is what is going on, with the jab mandates, the woke training, etc- it is sifting.
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Compliance levels more doubtful than you think. This is not the torch and pitchfork time. He knew he would be not an officer in any case. His CO gave him a most likely lawful order to stay off of social media. He immediately violated that on purpose. That’s what the arrest is about. Sure he is being treated very well. I like what he has done but still waiting for the big reveal. I think it is a run at elected office with a book deal on the way.
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Compliance levels more doubtful than you think. This is not the torch and pitchfork time. He knew he would be not an officer in any case. His CO gave him a most likely lawful order to stay off of social media. He immediately violated that on purpose. That’s what the arrest is about. Sure he is being treated very well. I like what he has done but still waiting for the big reveal. I think it is a run at elected office with a book deal on the way.
Is an order that violates your inalienable human rights ever valid? They violated his right of speech and his right to petition for redress of grievances.
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Is an order that violates your inalienable human rights ever valid? They violated his right of speech and his right to petition for redress of grievances.
Members of the military do not enjoy all of the same rights were do as citizens. UCMJ puts restrictions on a lot of rights (free speech, RKBA, etc.)
And I agree, the Colonel probably has a plan. I may be jaded, but I just don't see this level of "sacrifice" without some plan to benefit on the other side.
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Members of the military do not enjoy all of the same rights were do as citizens. UCMJ puts restrictions on a lot of rights (free speech, RKBA, etc.)
And I agree, the Colonel probably has a plan. I may be jaded, but I just don't see this level of "sacrifice" without some plan to benefit on the other side.
I agree. He's not sacrificing his career and his retirement check without a parachute somewhere on the plane (I hope).
Even so, I view the intentional disobedience of the order to STFU as being kind of dumb. My understanding was that following the original kerfuffle he had (or said he had) put in for retirement. It would have been a better plan (IMHO), but a lot less dramatic, to just retire and then fire up his social media.
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I agree. He's not sacrificing his career and his retirement check without a parachute somewhere on the plane (I hope).
Even so, I view the intentional disobedience of the order to STFU as being kind of dumb. My understanding was that following the original kerfuffle he had (or said he had) put in for retirement. It would have been a better plan (IMHO), but a lot less dramatic, to just retire and then fire up his social media.
Along those same lines, the military would have done itself a favor and simply let him retire. Now, they given every current and ex-military member who has the same questions (which, by my experience is a pretty high percentage) and given them reason to really really question what happened. Only now it isn't a question of how bad it was screwed up, but rather one of what else they are hiding. Lost faith in ability and lost faith in integrity are distinctly different issues.
*edit to add*
When a CMH recipient starts ripping the military a new one, you know it's gone all pear-shaped.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/dakota-meyer-jailed-marine-afghanistan-military-leadership-political
Brad
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As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.
Hmmmm . . .
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As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.
Hmmmm . . .
SO, another political prisoner.
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As of yesterday the talking heads were reporting that the officer had been thrown in the brig and no charges had been filed.
Hmmmm . . .
They also tried to make him undergo a psychological evaluation.
The brig is probably just a stopover on the way to the reducation facility.
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They also tried to make him undergo a psychological evaluation.
The brig is probably just a stopover on the way to the reducation facility.
Party like it's 1984
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He is in confinement awaiting an Article 32 hearing. An Article 32 hearing is kind of like a grand jury indictment, but a little different. It's a probable cause hearing. The UCMJ requires an Article 32 hearing for anyone going to a General Court Marshal. (the highest level of CM under the UCMJ).
Without comment on the LTC's specific issue, in my experience the people that get confinement prior to the Art 32 hearings are the people that gave their Commander reason to believe that they will continue whatever behavior got them in trouble in the first place.
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What are the chances that it goes to a general court martial, and the jury (I think it's called a panel) nullifies it? Does that ever happen in the military? Can the judge override them, or would that be a 5th and 7th Amendment violation?
That would be a pretty clear show that the officers have no confidence in command.
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The Court Martial can't "nullify" it. They can find guilty, not guilty, or a couple of specified other ones (not guilty only by reason of lack of mental responsibility for example). They can, of course, find "Not Guilty" if they want. I don't believe the Judge can impeach a finding of "not guilty unless there is one of a couple specific reasons*. Does that ever happen? Maybe, but I've never heard of it. What are the chances? Effectively zero. If at all possible you want to avoid a Court Martial. It is not set up to favor the accused even a bit.
I am not a JAG officer, or even have much experience with the process. I've only seen one soldier go all the way to GCM in my entire career, and that was mostly stupidity.
*From the Manual of Court Martial:
Rule 923. Impeachment of findings
Findings that are proper on their face may be
impeached only when extraneous prejudicial
information was improperly brought to the attention of
a member, outside influence was improperly brought
to bear upon any member, or unlawful command
influence was brought to bear upon any member.
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If at all possible you want to avoid a Court Martial
The sea-lawyer thumb rule 30+ years ago was if you're guilty take the Article 15/Captain's Mast, if you're innocent/not guilty go for the Court Martial.
Of course that option wasn't available for afloat commands.
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By "nullify" I meant to ignore the facts and find not guilty whether the defendant is really guilty or not. Sorry, my fault for editorializing in mid question. :)
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By "nullify" I meant to ignore the facts and find not guilty whether the defendant is really guilty or not. Sorry, my fault for editorializing in mid question. :)
I wouldn't hold your breath on a bunch of O-6's doing that.
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Along those same lines, the military would have done itself a favor and simply let him retire. Now, they given every current and ex-military member who has the same questions (which, by my experience is a pretty high percentage) and given them reason to really really question what happened. Only now it isn't a question of how bad it was screwed up, but rather one of what else they are hiding. Lost faith in ability and lost faith in integrity are distinctly different issues.
(.... ETA deleted)
Brad
As usual, high passion interferes with good sense. Or any sense, for that matter.
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I wouldn't hold your breath on a bunch of O-6's doing that.
Also I’m willing to bet the judge, prosecutor, and panel/jury to all be picked for political reliability vs fairness.
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Also I’m willing to bet the judge, prosecutor, and panel/jury to all be picked for political reliability vs fairness.
There's rules about who they can pick (I don't know them off the top of my head, but they can't just pick anyone they want.)
But honestly, I don't think they need to pick carefully. This is the kinda thing that riles Commanders up, even if they agree with the sentiment. Maybe especially if they agree with the sentiment. That second video is going to do him in.
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Letting him off the hook would set a precedent that would be absolutely suicidal for the current regime.
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Letting him off the hook would set a precedent that would be absolutely suicidal for the current regime.
The precedent of flagrantly disobeying a lawful order is the one that cannot stand. I would go so far as to guess his CO agrees with a lot of what the LtCol said. But he still has to be CO.
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when Trump was C in C , that woke general was hob nobbing with a potential enemy.
would have been hung for treason in WW2 era, now he's getting a book deal.
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The precedent of flagrantly disobeying a lawful order is the one that cannot stand. I would go so far as to guess his CO agrees with a lot of what the LtCol said. But he still has to be CO.
Like when the generals disobeyed President Trump's lawful and binding orders to pull out of Syria and Afghanistan and then bragged about it?
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Like when the generals disobeyed President Trump's lawful and binding orders to pull out of Syria and Afghanistan and then bragged about it?
I am aware. Got a solution other than obey no orders everywhere?
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I am aware. Got a solution other than obey no orders everywhere?
Whistleblowing/bringing charges to force official inquiry and attendant introspection. Fortunately Colonel Scheller is spearheading that. Unfortunately he is in the brig for violating a gag order. Hmm.
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Mrgunsngear was posting info about him on Instagram. One note (last?) he said he expected to be arrested and convicted and serve some prison time.
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Scheller will eventually come out smelling like a rose. The ones you need to check on is the unit retention personnel in all branches, they are not okay. I was around for Clinton military and that was a morale fest compared to this debacle.
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History would say you are correct. And if the people are sifted for compliance, more so. Sifted for wokeness, and ideology, even more so. Sift far enough and entire units of einstazgruppen can be found. that is what is going on, with the jab mandates, the woke training, etc- it is sifting.
This with the sifting. They already started, or at least more openly, back when they used the NG to guard the WH.
And with the reports of people like cops quitting, meaning the good ones are quitting leaving only the bad ones.
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Presented without editorial comment on my part:
https://coffeeordie.com/scheller-pretrial-release/
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I understand what he did is prohibited, and thus he is being punished for stating the truth...
But... will any of the incompetent' generals and politicians face any consequences at all for actually losing a war in a spectacularly foolish manner?
No.
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https://coffeeordie.com/marine-scheller-plead-guilty/
looks like he's going to take a deal.
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In the end he received a $5,000 fine and a letter of reprimand.
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And the judge made it perfectly clear he wasn't happy about all the unanswered questions.
Brad
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The Washington Post is getting nervous that they might not have as firm a grip on the dogs of war as they believed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/15/will-marines-let-lt-col-scheller-off-with-slap-wrist/
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The Washington Post is getting nervous that they might not have as firm a grip on the dogs of war as they believed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/15/will-marines-let-lt-col-scheller-off-with-slap-wrist/
Duffelblog wrote a satire piece about General Mattis crossing the Potomac with 100k troops. Maybe we will all be fortunate enough to see Lt. Col. Scheller being The One.