Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: HankB on October 11, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
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Yep.
If you want a gas powered leaf blower, lawn mower (walk behind or rider), pressure washer, chain saw, weed wacker, or anything else using a small gas engine for off road use, it looks like you're going to be out of luck; Kalifornia enacted a law banning the sale of anything but "zero emission" small engines. Which essentially means battery powered.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-law-bans-small-off-174600432.html
The law apparently doesn't ban currently owned devices, but I foresee a time when people make road trips into neighboring states to buy power tools, in much the same way as some do to buy ammunition. One wonders if Kali will soon put up customs inspection facilities at all border crossings. (Except the southern ones, of course.)
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While suburban homeowners with smaller yards could get by with battery run mowers, I wonder how this will affect landscapers? If their next new lawn tractor costs double what their old one did, some guys might be going out of business.
I will say that I love my Ryobi 40v weed wacker and leaf blower combo. Plenty of power, and with two batteries, by the time I run both batteries out, I'm ready for a break anyway. Of course they were my choice, and not mandated.
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While suburban homeowners with smaller yards could get by with battery run mowers, I wonder how this will affect landscapers? If their next new lawn tractor costs double what their old one did, some guys might be going out of business.
I will say that I love my Ryobi 40v weed wacker and leaf blower combo. Plenty of power, and with two batteries, by the time I run both batteries out, I'm ready for a break anyway. Of course they were my choice, and not mandated.
I was considering an electric weed eater myself. I haven't started looking. Just thinking I need to get one and I don't want to mess with gas. Corded would work for me.
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I was considering an electric weed eater myself. I haven't started looking. Just thinking I need to get one and I don't want to mess with gas. Corded would work for me.
I highly recommend getting one that is in a manufacturer's "interchangeable" series. My Ryobi stuff is in the Ryobi one+ series, so the weed wacker can take lots of attachments, and there are a bunch of different garden tools that all run on the same battery. I'm pretty sure all the major brands have similar series of lawn equipment.
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I also have the Ryobi 40 volt blower and weed whacker, and they do have the power. I also have a Ryobi two-stroke power head, and I keep that with a rotating saw blade to keep down the woody brush in the back part of our lot.
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The new law will ban the sale of all off-road, gas-powered engines, including generators, lawn equipment, pressure washers, chainsaws, weed trimmers, and even golf carts. Under the new law, these machines must be zero-emissions, meaning they will have to be either battery-powered or plug-in, according to the Los Angeles Times.
How does this affect tractors? From what I know, farmers use lots of small engines and such not to mention ranchers and others. The article only talks about lawn care. What about air compressors and welding machines used for industrial work? I don't know if they realize just how much small engines are used.
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I highly recommend getting one that is in a manufacturer's "interchangeable" series. My Ryobi stuff is in the Ryobi one+ series, so the weed wacker can take lots of attachments, and there are a bunch of different garden tools that all run on the same battery. I'm pretty sure all the major brands have similar series of lawn equipment.
I will keep that in mind. If nothing else, might make battery replacements later easier to do.
I already have a 120VAC blower and a 120VAC edger. Both work just fine. I have had the edger a few years. I have had the blower for 15 years. I have had to change the blade on the edger once so far. Probably need to do it again before next Spring. My 100 foot extension cord reaches the entire yard. In the past, 120VAC stuff wasn't very capable as it wasn't meant for serious work. But I haven't shopped around yet so I don't what choices are available.
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California law bans small off-road gas engines, including lawnmowers and chainsaws
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-law-to-ban-small-off-road-engines
The new law will ban the sale of all off-road, gas-powered engines, including generators, lawn equipment, pressure washers, chainsaws, weed trimmers, and even golf carts. Under the new law , these machines must be zero-emissions, meaning they will have to be either battery-powered or plug-in, according to the Los Angeles Times .
I didn't even think about generators. I think people will figure out a lot more places where small engines are used.
The new rule will be implemented by January 2024, or as soon as regulators determine is "feasible," whichever date is later. The California Air Resources Board has already started working on executing the law, which is a lengthy process scheduled to conclude early next year, per the outlet.
Doesn't go into effect until 2024.
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Golf carts and "off-road". Hmm. ATVs, dirt bikes, and side by sides are also gas powered. I wonder if this is the nose under the tent for recreational stuff too?
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I'm sure California's electrical grid is up to the task to charge all these electric vehicles, engines, and whatnot
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I bet there will be exceptions for governmental agencies and emergencies. I can't see the Forest Service, National Parks or CalFire using battery chainsaws to cut a fire line or do trail maintenance 20 miles in from the road or trailhead.
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California has been at war against dirt bikes and ATVs for as long as I can remember. It's sad of course because sports like motocross and dune riding were practically invented in California, but CA doesn't seem to care. Like the Taliban, any cultural or economic collateral damage just doesn't matter if it gets in the way of ideology.
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How does this affect tractors? From what I know, farmers use lots of small engines and such not to mention ranchers and others. The article only talks about lawn care. What about air compressors and welding machines used for industrial work? I don't know if they realize just how much small engines are used.
Why would they care? They hate all blue collar/farmers.
Guys remember it’s not about logic in CA it’s about emotional autistic screeching. Y’all make the mistake of trying to apply logic to that kind of insanity.
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Why would they care? They hate all blue collar/farmers.
Guys remember it’s not about logic in CA it’s about emotional autistic screeching. Y’all make the mistake of trying to apply logic to that kind of insanity.
Agreed. I wasn't asking about the leftists. Just about how far reaching the law is.
It seems to be pretty much banning everything gas powered. Now I am wondering if there are exceptions for diesel, propane, or other fuels (probably not).
The people making the laws and even writing the articles have no idea what working people actually do. All they see is the lawn maintenance guys so that is all they think about (and that is just the journalists). The same thing has been seen when some of these people talk about illegal immigration. They start talking about house cleaning people and nannies since those are the only illegal immigrants they see.
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Generator ban and people will die. Some need home health equipment or air conditioners to live. Lack of gas powered fire pumps ought to be a hoot too.
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The generator part is amazing in the natural disaster state. Even on a good day that bans food trucks, outdoor festivals, a fair amount of RVs, race tracks... A huge amount of revenue and fun.
Mobile welding and construction, the list goes on. Wow.
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It was nice of them to put some money off to the side to help the landscapers get new equipment.
If they devide it evenly it's a whole $600 for each business. They have no idea how much commercial zero emission equipment will cost.
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Now I am wondering if there are exceptions for diesel, propane, or other fuels (probably not).
It's funny (sad funny, not funny funny) that CA was the lame ass state that pushed diesel emissions restrictions to the whole country (and world, if you include ships dropping cargo in the US) at great cost to all the users, not to mention the headaches of Tier4, and a decade later, they're gonna eliminate the "clean diesel" that they forced on everyone.
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What’s the cc (or cu. in.) cutoff for what constitutes a “small” engine?
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They have left themselves many outs. There's the actual legal change adds the following:
43018.11. (a)
(1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later.
(2) In determining technological feasibility pursuant to paragraph (1), the state board shall consider all of the following:
(A) Emissions from small off-road engines in the state.
(B) Expected timelines for zero-emission small off-road equipment development.
(C) Increased demand for electricity from added charging requirements for more zero-emission small off-road equipment.
(D) Use cases of both commercial and residential lawn and garden users.
(E) Expected availability of zero-emission generators and emergency response equipment.
(b) Consistent with the regulations adopted pursuant to this section and relevant state law, the state board shall identify, and, to the extent feasible, make available, funding for commercial rebates or similar incentive funding as part of any updates to existing, applicable funding program guidelines for districts to implement to support the transition to zero-emission small off-road equipment operations.
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Zero-emission generators. I have looked at those Jackery and other battery banks. If I lived in an area where solar charging was feasible, I would be thinking about them. As it is, they would be good for charging up the small electronics, but you are not going to be running anything with a decent wattage for very long.
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Are you allowed to have an electric powered generator?
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All that "technologically feasible " reminds me of the microstamping law.
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Are you allowed to have an electric powered generator?
You'll just use some of the electric power produced by the generator to run the generator's motor. Simple.
(Ain't tapping a perpetual motion machine grand?)
I've got some yard tools (weed wacker, leaf blower, pole saw) that run on 120VAC - like MechAg94,a 100 foot cord lets me reach my whole yard. But I'm NOT impressed with the power of 120VAC pressure washers, and don't expect anything battery operated will work well.
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(https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8xNDY3NDg3Ny9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY3NTU5MjE4M30.2Gt76TDG5lsWVd3o9tsgfj6VhrIcuVLPGfxEtDU2jz4/img.jpg?width=980)
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(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-74f4b22cfa82a89eef7b86c2c76b1975-c)
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The higher end battery chainsaws have gotten quite good. In the 45cc and under engine class I’d be strongly tempted to get a battery saw. Particularly if you usually only use the saw a few times a year. Just no needing to mess around with gas that can go bad, carbs that can get varnished, etc would be a big bonus.
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The higher end battery chainsaws have gotten quite good. In the 45cc and under engine class I’d be strongly tempted to get a battery saw. Particularly if you usually only use the saw a few times a year. Just no needing to mess around with gas that can go bad, carbs that can get varnished, etc would be a big bonus.
They are better for bayonets, too.
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The higher end battery chainsaws have gotten quite good. In the 45cc and under engine class I’d be strongly tempted to get a battery saw. Particularly if you usually only use the saw a few times a year. Just no needing to mess around with gas that can go bad, carbs that can get varnished, etc would be a big bonus.
Milwaukee saw with a 12 amp hour battery is one heck of a tool. Until the battery dies and your commie state banned generators.
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I have a battery chainsaw. It is great for clearing the cottonwoods out of the driveway when we get an overnight storm. Just need to have it charged and full of oil.
For real wood cutting, mostly hedge, I use the the gas saws. I have several.
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One wonders if Kali will soon put up customs inspection facilities at all border crossings. (Except the southern ones, of course.)
They actually do have border stations. I've always been waved through, good for me since I'm usually transporting totally Cali legal firearm stuff when I do... :angel: :police:
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Doesn't seem to actually mention what a "small engine" is. I wonder if this would also affect gas powered remote control vehicles. Or things like mopeds/scooters.
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They actually do have border stations. I've always been waved through, good for me since I'm usually transporting totally Cali legal firearm stuff when I do... :angel: :police:
I didn't know that - the times I've been to Kali, I always arrived & departed via air, never by road.
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Doesn't seem to actually mention what a "small engine" is. I wonder if this would also affect gas powered remote control vehicles. Or things like mopeds/scooters.
Like most laws the politicians have no idea what anything is. Most have never worked for a living and have zero common sense.
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I took a look through the rest of the section that's being amended, and didn't see a definition anywhere.
The whole thing is pretty poorly defined and will therefore be subject to interpretation.
Like most laws the politicians have no idea what anything is. Most have never worked for a living and have zero common sense.
Quoted for truth.
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I expect it won't be too many years before California ban standard gas cars either.
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I expect it won't be too many years before California ban standard gas cars either.
I think they already did. No sales of new gas cars after 2035, I think.
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I took a look through the rest of the section that's being amended, and didn't see a definition anywhere.
The whole thing is pretty poorly defined and will therefore be subject to interpretation.
Quoted for truth.
That tells me that what you are allowed to buy or have will largely depend on where you are. And local politicians can screw with companies who don't play ball.
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My "gas-powered leaf blower" is a rake, a broom, and a can of baked beans.
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This discussion reminded me that I hadn't run my generator in quite some time. Took it out this afternoon while I was leaf blowing the yard with my gas powered blower. The generator fired right up and I let it run for about a half hour while I removed leaves from the yard.
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This discussion reminded me that I hadn't run my generator in quite some time. Took it out this afternoon while I was leaf blowing the yard with my gas powered blower. The generator fired right up and I let it run for about a half hour while I removed leaves from the yard.
I may overdo it, but I do that once a month. Recurring alarm on the calendar app. Start 'er up and fiddle with other stuff for 15-30 min. I figure it's a good way to keep fuel moving through the system over the year and it lets the battery do something other than drain (though mine also has a pull cord if the battery dies, but it's a bitch to yank on that big engine). I also try to put a load on it once in a while as well.
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Mine is in the shed in front of my mower, so every couple weeks I pull it out and start it, then let it run while I mow the lawn. Keeps it exercised.
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I would be running some kind of load on to make sure it does more than start and run.
My three phase ran great for years until on day voltage went wonky. Low voltage in one leg and really high on another.
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I think they already did. No sales of new gas cars after 2035, I think.
Well now.
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I would be running some kind of load on to make sure it does more than start and run.
My three phase ran great for years until on day voltage went wonky. Low voltage in one leg and really high on another.
Very true, and I've done that in the past. It was explained to me by some folks that were load banking the genset where I used to work that it keeps shellac from building up on the commutators. Don't know if that's an accurate statement as I've never researched it's veracity.
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Very true, and I've done that in the past. It was explained to me by some folks that were load banking the genset where I used to work that it keeps shellac from building up on the commutators. Don't know if that's an accurate statement as I've never researched it's veracity.
You sure they weren't talking about the encabulator?
https://youtu.be/Ac7G7xOG2Ag
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You sure they weren't talking about the encabulator?
https://youtu.be/Ac7G7xOG2Ag
Now that I think about it... =D
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Very true, and I've done that in the past. It was explained to me by some folks that were load banking the genset where I used to work that it keeps shellac from building up on the commutators. Don't know if that's an accurate statement as I've never researched it's veracity.
Yep. Plus load banking a generator also fights “wet stacking” where a Diesel engine without any load on it coats the exhaust with wet spot. A Diesel engine does not like to idle they like to work. Too much idle time is also not good for blowby.
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You sure they weren't talking about the encabulator?
https://youtu.be/Ac7G7xOG2Ag
Ha! First thing that actually came to mind too.
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(https://i.imgur.com/MFJyeA2.jpg?1)
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Why would they care? They hate all blue collar/farmers.
Guys remember it’s not about logic in CA it’s about emotional autistic screeching. Y’all make the mistake of trying to apply logic to that kind of insanity.
QFT
Yes, and as said before, "Ideology Rules."
It is almost impossible to reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into.
Bad engine, bad engine. Must punish.
Terry, 230RN
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I would be running some kind of load on to make sure it does more than start and run.
My three phase ran great for years until on day voltage went wonky. Low voltage in one leg and really high on another.
Every 6 months or so I have a project come up that requires me to cut, or un-cut something outside my shop, so the generator runs either a small air compressor and plasma cutter (cut) or my MIG (uncut). I figure that's enough testing to be storm ready,
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I didn't know that - the times I've been to Kali, I always arrived & departed via air, never by road.
It's an agriculture thang.
https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/ExteriorExclusion/borders.html (https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/ExteriorExclusion/borders.html)
California’s Border Protection Stations (BPS) are the first line of defense in our pest exclusion efforts. At these stations, vehicles are inspected for commodities infested with invasive species. California established its first agricultural inspection stations in the early 1920s. Today there are 16 of these facilities located on the major highways entering the State (see interactive map). At these stations, vehicles and commodities are checked to ensure they are pest free and meet all regulatory requirements.
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I saw another Instagram post: "MOW LAWN LABE"
=D
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I like my 20v Kobalt 14" chainsaw & tree limber. Two batteries last as long as I do. Had an oak fall in the front yard, I cut most of it myself but there was one spot where a mistake could have killed me. Called in the pros. He got his chainsaw pinched, borrowed my cordless to get it out. I do use a couple gas powered for the larger stuff.
Just before reading this thread I gave the generator it's monthly running. I hook up a heat lamp for a load.
But there's no way in hell I could do all the yard work with cordless or even corded tools. Five acres is a bit too far to run an extension cord, and I doubt anything would work well enough off a portable solar panel setup.
ETA: I run the gas out of the carb when shutting down. Turn off the fuel valve, run it until it starts to sputter, then use the choke until it dies. Figure it helps keep the carb clean.
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(https://slamwrestling.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/EagleLone_cleanedupSM.jpg)
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Good way to make 100,000 hard working Mexican landscapers pissed off.
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Thinking about this. Lawn care contractors would need to either carry a bunch of batteries or have some sort of battery bank on their trailer to charge spare batteries. I haven't seen battery banks like that, but I figure they could be made.
That still doesn't replace everything, just a select few devices.
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Good way to make 100,000 hard working Mexican landscapers pissed off.
Or depended on government handouts
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Thinking about this. Lawn care contractors would need to either carry a bunch of batteries or have some sort of battery bank on their trailer to charge spare batteries. I haven't seen battery banks like that, but I figure they could be made.
That still doesn't replace everything, just a select few devices.
There are battery charger banks and power sources but not the kind that’s going to last a 10 hour day powering multiple mowers, weed eaters, hedge trimmers, pole saws, etc
And pro grade battery tools are big $$$.
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There are battery charger banks and power sources but not the kind that’s going to last a 10 hour day powering multiple mowers, weed eaters, hedge trimmers, pole saws, etc
And pro grade battery tools are big $$$.
Yeah, last year I bought the Stihl pro pole saw for ~$600 because the battery one was close to $1000 for saw + battery. Even my Stihl dealer told me their battery stuff is ridiculously priced.
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I am now buying the third-party Ryobi 18 and 40 volt batteries. They seem to last as long and work as well and are somewhat cheaper than the name brand.
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California is working on banning all gas appliances also. That will help the crap grid when everyone comes home and turns on the oven after plugging in the car.
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They can have my gas range when the pry it from my cold, dead, pudgy fingers.
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They can have my gas range when the pry it from my cold, dead, pudgy fingers.
They have nukes
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Does CA ban idling of commercial vehicles, like some of the yankee states do? Can't run the truck AC, etc...
I envision the landscapers, etc., using the vehicles for generators. Gonna be a LOT of add-on alternators, or PTO mods... A regular alternator can't run that big inverter All Day Long...
At least until the vehicles all have to run on AA cells...
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They have nukes
Now that would be an interesting idea for a power supply. Do they make those small enough to fit in the back of a truck?
Or maybe the CA capital building needs a back up generator.... [tinfoil] [popcorn]
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Now that would be an interesting idea for a power supply. Do they make those small enough to fit in the back of a truck?
Or maybe the CA capital building needs a back up generator.... [tinfoil] [popcorn]
They are working on it. I read this article just last night:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42818/this-alaskan-air-base-will-host-an-experimental-mini-nuclear-reactor
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They are working on it. I read this article just last night:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42818/this-alaskan-air-base-will-host-an-experimental-mini-nuclear-reactor
Cool.
Gotta be careful. Hollywood has taught me that all one has to do is set it to overload and it will destroy the whole base.
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Does CA ban idling of commercial vehicles, like some of the yankee states do? Can't run the truck AC, etc...
I envision the landscapers, etc., using the vehicles for generators. Gonna be a LOT of add-on alternators, or PTO mods... A regular alternator can't run that big inverter All Day Long...
At least until the vehicles all have to run on AA cells...
Yes they ban idling for more than five minutes. Also idling absolutely murders gas engines and puts a lot of wear and tear on diesels, especially modern emissions diesels. Our service trucks went from PTO air compressors to Miller Enpaks- they supply air, 120V electrical, crane hydraulic power, and mig or stick weld power from a small diesel plumbed to draw fuel from the truck fuel tanks.
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Monkey see monkey do
State Reps. Jerry Newton and Heather Edelson, members of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party, introduced legislation on Monday that would block the sale of common landscaping appliances like lawn mowers and chainsaws as well ice resurfacing machines such as Zambonis, requiring that only electric battery versions be sold in the state starting Jan. 1, 2025.
The ban on lawn and garden equipment would include any machine that uses "a spark ignition engine rated at or below 19 kilowatts or 25 gross horsepower." Commonly used landscaping tools like lawn mowers, leaf blowers, hedge clippers, chainsaws, lawn edgers, string trimmers and brush cutters would all be prohibited by that definition.
And just like CA they made sure to hamstring electricity production first.
The measure follows a Democrat-backed clean energy bill signed into law by Gov. Tim Walz that requires electricity production be 80% carbon-free by 2030 and 100% by 2040. Republicans labeled it the "blackout bill."
Minnesota Democrat lawmakers push ban on gas-powered lawn mowers, chainsaws to curb 'climate pollution'
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/minnesota-democrat-lawmakers-push-ban-gas-powered-lawn-mowers-chainsaws-curb-climate-pollution
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California energy policy seems to be becoming the American Germany.
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Certain small tools can be made, well, serviceable with batteries. Hedge trimmers - yep. Cordless drills and screwdrivers - sure. Lawnmowers? Borderline, depending on yard size.
Generators? Maybe our leaders will subsidize plug-in (corded) generators - use a battery to start it initially, and then just plug its cord into the output to keep it running. Science!!!
But even corded pressure washers are only suitable for relatively light work like washing a car or patio furniture, you really don't want to clean a large dirty driveway or patio with anything less than roughly a 3000 PSI gas pressure washer with a surface cleaning attachment - electric just won't cut it.
Cool.
Gotta be careful. Hollywood has taught me that all one has to do is set it to overload and it will destroy the whole base.
If you're worried about nuke plants, you should read the old H. Beam Piper short story, Day of the Moron. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/18949/18949-h/18949-h.htm
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Generators? Maybe our leaders will subsidize plug-in (corded) generators - use a battery to start it initially, and then just plug its cord into the output to keep it running. Science!!!
https://youtu.be/yxkb2dt_nBw
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https://youtu.be/yxkb2dt_nBw
Spare fuel cans are so much easier to haul around and refueling is much faster.
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Meanwhile in Colorado
Colorado state environmental regulators unanimously approved a measure to crack down on certain uses of gas-powered lawn equipment as part of the state's broader climate push.
In an 8-0 vote, the Colorado Air Quality Control Commission (AQCC) green-lit regulations that prohibit gas-powered lawn and garden equipment from being used on public property statewide. Under the finalized rules, the ban will be enforced beginning in 2025 and, according to the Colorado Public Interest Research Group (CoPIRG), represents the first effort of its kind in the nation.
Dem state cracks down on gas-powered lawn equipment as part of climate crusade
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem-state-cracks-down-on-gas-powered-lawn-equipment-as-part-of-climate-crusade
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Meanwhile in Colorado
Dem state cracks down on gas-powered lawn equipment as part of climate crusade
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem-state-cracks-down-on-gas-powered-lawn-equipment-as-part-of-climate-crusade
Well, either government employees using government-owned tractors, mowers, etc., will be scofflaws, or public property will become progressively shabbier and ungroomed. As just one example, I don't see any big electric mowers - the kind they use to groom highway frontages - coming on the market that will operate for a full 8 hour shift.
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I don't see any big electric mowers - the kind they use to groom highway frontages - coming on the market that will operate for a full 8 hour shift.
Feelings powered
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Feelings powered
So the state employees will only have to identify as working?
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So the state employees will only have to identify as working?
How's that any different from what many of them do now?
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How's that any different from what many of them do now?
Today, the leaners are actually expected to lean on their shovels when they're in the public eye. Identifying as a leaner isn't enough.
(https://t1.thpservices.com/fotos/thum400/003/677/j07-355804.jpg)
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Today, the leaners are actually expected to lean on their shovels when they're in the public eye. Identifying as a leaner isn't enough.
(https://t1.thpservices.com/fotos/thum400/003/677/j07-355804.jpg)
Old old joke.
Hear about all the government employees getting laid off? They invented a shovel that can stand up on it's own.
Nowadays they would make them all supervisors instead of laying them off.