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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MechAg94 on October 13, 2021, 10:55:50 AM

Title: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MechAg94 on October 13, 2021, 10:55:50 AM
Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
https://nypost.com/2021/10/12/record-4-3-million-americans-quit-their-jobs-in-august/

Quote
A whopping 4.3 million people quit two months ago, the most on record dating back to December 2000 ó and 300,000 more than in July, according to the Labor Department report.

The August quits are the equivalent of 3 percent of the US workforce.

Interesting facts.  I heard this mentioned (radio?).  The vaccine mandates were mentioned, but also mentioned was home schooling.  You hear a lot of people are trying to start it, but I have no idea about the numbers.  Anyone know what this number has been historically?
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Ben on October 13, 2021, 11:04:25 AM
Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
https://nypost.com/2021/10/12/record-4-3-million-americans-quit-their-jobs-in-august/

Interesting facts.  I heard this mentioned (radio?).  The vaccine mandates were mentioned, but also mentioned was home schooling.  You hear a lot of people are trying to start it, but I have no idea about the numbers.  Anyone know what this number has been historically?

As I read more about it, there seems to be a very large percentage of people who decided they are simply sick of working and just quit to enjoy life. As someone who retired early, I certainly empathize with that, though I continue to wonder how many of them will support themselves.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MillCreek on October 13, 2021, 11:34:15 AM
^^^We are certainly seeing in healthcare that a lot of the older staff are punching out earlier than they thought, especially as the retirement accounts have done well.  My wife had always planned to retire in the summer of 2023, and she is now giving serious thought to doing so in the summer of 2022.  I will probably follow her in a year, if that.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Jim147 on October 13, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
The story I read had healthcare at 540,000 of the number of quits.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Nick1911 on October 13, 2021, 11:43:43 AM
As I read more about it, there seems to be a very large percentage of people who decided they are simply sick of working and just quit to enjoy life. As someone who retired early, I certainly empathize with that, though I continue to wonder how many of them will support themselves.

I'm not sure how widespread it is, but I've seen this attitude change with some people.  After having a drastic work-life balance shift with reduced hours or working from home, some folks seem to have come out the other side realizing they value spending their time doing things they enjoy, and chasing dollars in the rat race seems less important.  Perspective.

I get it.  If I live a long life, I've got about 20,000 days left to live.  That's... not really that many.  Did you enjoy what you did with today?  How about yesterday?  What's tomorrow look like?
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: French G. on October 13, 2021, 12:33:36 PM
I am seriously tempted to quit daily since the incentives for new hires are so huge around here. Gotta hang on for now, because bonus gets paid early December and profit share hits the 401 at New Years. My second job is more important to me, hard to find $27/hr part time work.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Ron on October 13, 2021, 12:44:38 PM
Sold my house, quit my job back in March.

Boot scooted out of Illinois and holed up with family in Indiana.

Home prices are still incredibly inflated around here.

Last time I did this I took a year off, I'm feeling restless already though. Might have to find something that keeps me out of the seed corn.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Ben on October 13, 2021, 12:45:07 PM
I'm not sure how widespread it is, but I've seen this attitude change with some people.  After having a drastic work-life balance shift with reduced hours or working from home, some folks seem to have come out the other side realizing they value spending their time doing things they enjoy, and chasing dollars in the rat race seems less important.  Perspective.

I get it.  If I live a long life, I've got about 20,000 days left to live.  That's... not really that many.  Did you enjoy what you did with today?  How about yesterday?  What's tomorrow look like?

I totally think that's a healthy perspective, especially doing the math on how much time you have left. I do that all the time and it too, was a factor in my retiring early.

I hate to sound like a dirty commie pinko, but we as a society might be better off not emphasizing work life so much. I have read some commie stuff about changing to a society that is more part time workers than full time workers. For instance, hiring two people to do the job one person used to do, thus giving people more free time plus employing more people. Of course the commie version has mother gov providing free stuff to make that happen (e.g., fulltime income for halftime work).

It could still be done in the free market if people learned to live with less "luxury" stuff. I think that's hard to convince people to do nowadays though. There is just too much stuff on Amazon that everyone wants to own. You can't enjoy working less with a 48" TV - you gotta have the 85" TV, or what's the point?
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Nick1911 on October 13, 2021, 12:57:05 PM
I read an article in The Atlantic that explored that issue some.  I don't agree with everything, but it was certainly worth the read, IMO.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: RoadKingLarry on October 13, 2021, 01:40:16 PM
Ya never seem to hear of anyone proclaiming on their deathbed that they wish they had spent more time at work.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MillCreek on October 13, 2021, 01:44:14 PM
I read an article in The Atlantic that explored that issue some.  I don't agree with everything, but it was certainly worth the read, IMO.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/

Now wasn't that an interesting, yet somewhat depressing, article.  I know that I get a lot of my self-identity though my profession.  What will happen to that when I retire?
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: zxcvbob on October 13, 2021, 02:08:21 PM
Now wasn't that an interesting, yet somewhat depressing, article.  I know that I get a lot of my self-identity though my profession.  What will happen to that when I retire?

Channel half of that time and energy into volunteer work, and identify with that?
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MechAg94 on October 13, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
The recent posts got me thinking.  I have been at the job I am at for a while since I live 7 miles away and my commute is 15 minutes.  I have had chances to move over to Houston on the surrounding area, but I know I would hate it.  My commute would be a good be longer and I would hate driving in the traffic.  Much happier where I am. 

There are a lot of people who were commuting multiple hours per day to work at a job.  Often both parents were doing that and dropping the kids off at day care.  I have know people that routinely drove 3 hours or more a day commuting.  Now they spent a year or less working from home with their kids at home.  Probably quite a few don't want to go back to long commutes and day care.  They start looking for other options.   

Just a thought.  I am sure the reasons vary quite a bit with different people. 
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: dogmush on October 13, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Now wasn't that an interesting, yet somewhat depressing, article.  I know that I get a lot of my self-identity though my profession.  What will happen to that when I retire?

This very thought has occurred to me as well.  I get a lot of my self-identity through being in the Army.  Not sure what I'll be when I finally get out.  The Reserves will let me stick around for a while, so I can kick that can down the road farther than a debt ceiling.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Lennyjoe on October 13, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
News mentioned somewhere in the neighborhood of 800,000 ish were food related jobs (fast food, restaurant and the like). 
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: French G. on October 13, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
I didnít work for three years when I left active duty. Except for reserve time it was horrible, even at home with my kid. Tempting to say life isnít work but then what is it? Give me some acreage and 200 beehives and I would be happy not to punch a clock. But for now 60-70 hours a week is all that is between me and crippling depression.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: Ben on October 13, 2021, 03:14:24 PM
Now wasn't that an interesting, yet somewhat depressing, article.  I know that I get a lot of my self-identity though my profession.  What will happen to that when I retire?

I think you will redefine it. If you're like me, it will take a while, and if you liked your job, you will certainly miss it and the interactions you had. Not to be morbid and maybe it's a crappy analogy, but it's sort of like when someone close to you dies. You miss them like crazy early on, and while five years later you still miss them, you've sort of, if not "moved on", have accepted things and the changes in your life.

I was lucky in my job that I got to do some extraordinary things - flying, working with tech that I still can't talk about, diving, including on some archeological sites that maybe no more than 500 people in the world have ever been to. Traveled to cool places. Met famous people and been involved with things that I considered important to the country.

I missed some of that quite a bit after I left and felt kind of empty, not being involved in what I considered cool and important stuff that meant something. I felt like I was missing out on consequential stuff. But that slowly faded with time, and now I'm happy reminiscing about that part of my life while looking at the photos and stuff on the walls of my home office, while also happy being an unemployed bum halfassed farmer in Sticksville, ID., goofing around in my pastures with a dog named Steve and sitting on the porch watching the wildlife wander by.  When I'm out in the pasture doing something mundane like fixing a fence, and stopping to, with a smile on my face, watch a flock of geese fly over my head, I realize I don't need to be doing "important stuff" to be happy and to have a worthwhile life.  =)
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: RocketMan on October 13, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
I think you will redefine it. If you're like me, it will take a while, and if you liked your job, you will certainly miss it and the interactions you had. Not to be morbid and maybe it's a crappy analogy, but it's sort of like when someone close to you dies. You miss them like crazy early on, and while five years later you still miss them, you've sort of, if not "moved on", have accepted things and the changes in your life.

I was lucky in my job that I got to do some extraordinary things - flying, working with tech that I still can't talk about, diving, including on some archeological sites that maybe no more than 500 people in the world have ever been to. Traveled to cool places. Met famous people and been involved with things that I considered important to the country.

I missed some of that quite a bit after I left and felt kind of empty, not being involved in what I considered cool and important stuff that meant something. I felt like I was missing out on consequential stuff. But that slowly faded with time, and now I'm happy reminiscing about that part of my life while looking at the photos and stuff on the walls of my home office, while also happy being an unemployed bum halfassed farmer in Sticksville, ID., goofing around in my pastures with a dog named Steve and sitting on the porch watching the wildlife wander by.  When I'm out in the pasture doing something mundane like fixing a fence, and stopping to, with a smile on my face, watch a flock of geese fly over my head, I realize I don't need to be doing "important stuff" to be happy and to have a worthwhile life.  =)

There is so much truth in this missive, Ben.  I commend you for posting it.  It largely mirrors my own post-retirement experience.
Look back with fondness on the good parts of your work life and do your best to let go of the bad parts.  If you have allowed yourself to be defined by your work, you're being inflexible and not true and good to yourself.  Look forward to the new rewards of retirement.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: RoadKingLarry on October 13, 2021, 04:15:33 PM
Agree with the above.
It probably helps some for me that I had grown to loathe my job in the last few years I was there but I don't think too much about it after only 7 months.

I can't remember the exact quote but something along the lines of "Don't let what you do become who you are, make who you are become what you do"
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: tokugawa on October 13, 2021, 04:45:23 PM
Ya never seem to hear of anyone proclaiming on their deathbed that they wish they had spent more time at work.

 From what I have heard reported from hospice nurses, the number one regret is not having kids, or not having more kids.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: just Warren on October 13, 2021, 11:00:58 PM
Good for them.

Here's some reasons people are quitting:

Low pay. Some places have raised rates but most others haven't. In fact some places have rolled back bonuses and frozen wages while receiving government money and posting huge profits.

That's got to rankle folks some.

Horrible scheduling. Imagine being told you'll only be scheduled for 10 hours but have to be available all the rest of the hours in case you're called in. You can't take a second job, or go to school, or plan to hang with friends because you're subject to being called in at any point. 

Who wants to live like that?

Horrible customers. People can be really abusive of workers and in most cases the company backs the customer.

Why work at a place where you'll be abused?

Horrible recruitment. Imagine being told your pay rate is to be one amount but finding out when you actually start work that it's lower. Or that the schedule you agreed upon has been changed. You thought you were part time but guess what? You're scheduled to work near full-time hours even on days where you have other obligations.

Horrible policies. There's too many to list but things like having to show up 15 minutes early and stay 15 minutes late unpaid. Or one place saying that the time clock doesn't start counting your work-time until 15 minutes have passed since you cocked in. Getting no breaks. Having to clock out to use the restroom and on and on and on.

having to go back to the office even though you can do all your work remotely. And companies are putting spyware in your computers, making sure that you're sitting at your desk even though you might not need to be. And I just read that some company is demanding that people wear their work polos at home. And some genius based in NYC has mentioned that if you WFH and don't live in NYC anymore you're not going to be paid NYC money. There's a morale booster!

Wage theft causes the biggest loss of money than of any other crime. The boss takes $20 a week from you for a year and won't be arrested and you have to sue to get it. But YOU take $1000 from the till to make it even and you can be arrested and fired of course.

How is that fair?

Horrible morale events. Imagine working yourself to the bone over the course of this pandemic and, in addition to having your wage frozen and losing bonuses, the company thanks you for all your hard work by giving you a bag with a few bucks worth of candy in it. Or an engraved stone. Or a cheap-ass pizza party. One picture I saw, a woman was given a scratcher ticket which revealed that she had won an UNPAID day off. Wooo.

Horrible work-places. Unsafe, ugly or soul-deadening spaces full of people you don't want to be around. That you may have to spend an hour in your car to get to each day.

Horrible hours when all hours are counted. You're not paid for the time you need to get ready in the morning, nor are you paid for the commute, nor for the wear and tear on your car. Nobody really noticed that until the pandemic and people saw how much time and money they were saving by not having to go into the office.

Many, many, many folks have no interest in going back to the office and will and have quit instead.

Horrible management. All of the above relates to just how bad bosses are. While there are bright spots among bosses, many are sociopathic control-freaks who don't give a damn about their workers.

"Your mom just died? Wow that's rough. You still need to come in on Saturday!"

"You're graduating on Friday? Well, that doesn't work for me, I need you to come in."

Or getting mad when workers want to use their paid time off.

Or writing someone up for being a few minutes late when they've showed up early and stayed late multiple times unpaid.

Or not filling positions and expecting the remaining workers to pick up the slack and for no extra pay.

All of this goes to the fact that workers get very little respect, and it's finally gotten to a point where they're just not going to put up with it anymore. And all these idiot bosses have f'ed around and are now finding out.

They're finding out they need the workers more then the workers need them.

I'm perfectly fine with a business failing because they can't treat people right. Good riddance. 

Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: RoadKingLarry on October 13, 2021, 11:36:23 PM
Quote
Horrible work-places. Unsafe, ugly or soul-deadening spaces full of people you don't want to be around. That you may have to spend an hour in your car to get to each day.

Horrible hours when all hours are counted. You're not paid for the time you need to get ready in the morning, nor are you paid for the commute, nor for the wear and tear on your car. Nobody really noticed that until the pandemic and people saw how much time and money they were saving by not having to go into the office.

I spent 13+ years of my 21 year career with AT&T reporting to the local office 2 miles from my home. Most of that time I worked the graveyard shift (which paid a 10% differential and Sunday pay was time and a half and no required lunch break)  and travelled NE Oklahoma and parts of SE Kansas. I would sometimes go entire weeks without having to interact with another person during working hours. Best working years of my life. 
I was force transferred to downtown Tulsa in February 2018. I had worked at that location for several years prior to getting transferred to my local office and hated it then.
I lost about 3.5 hours a day to travel time and a required 1 hour unpaid lunch break, added a 97 mile a day commute, and lost all my shift differentials which amounted to a 20% pay cut and I had to pay to park. In addition to all those perks I went from being pretty much independent and my work consisted of time of day restricted projects and critical trouble resolution, I was rarely doing the same thing two days in a row, to the drudgery of stationary central office work. Put the wire in...take the wire out... connect the fiber...take the fiber out... To say I hated it would be an enormous understatement. That was a BIG factor in my early retirement. If I'd stayed at my old location or even gone to one of the closer locations I'd probably still be working.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: grampster on October 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
When my company offered me a years pay among other benefits to retire early at 62.5, the vacuum I created sprinting out the door sucked 3 other employees out into the parking lot.

That was over 15 years ago.  I have never regretted it.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: K Frame on October 14, 2021, 10:54:05 AM
I made the mistake of tying my self-identity into my profession ---- once.

Fortunately, it was early in my career, so I got that mistake out of my way early.

Unfortunately, it cost me my health, my self-identity (for a long time) and in large part my marriage.

It was while I was recovering from that mess that I decided I would never, ever, make that mistake again. And I've not. Yes, I'm proud of the work that I do, and I like it, but it's just a job, and my personal life now comes first. Well, my personal life comes second, Seren is decidedly first on the list. Job? Who gives a crap where it comes on the list as long as it's dead last.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: T.O.M. on October 14, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
I have seen way too many people who were all about the job retire, do nothing but wait to die, and often do that in a year or two after walking away.

In a way, I'm glad I lost the election, as I was heading down that path.  Losing, and then walking away to avoid the boot, ended up with me finding a new position, and working with people who stress life first, job later.  I work fewer hours, my blood pressure is better, and I'm a lot happier than I was.  Now, it's a question of when I walk away from this gig and retire.  I can go in 2.5 years, but SWMBO has another few after that.  Probably stick around and go closer to when she does.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MechAg94 on October 14, 2021, 01:52:16 PM
Good for them.

Here's some reasons people are quitting:

...............................................

I'm perfectly fine with a business failing because they can't treat people right. Good riddance.
Very good and righteous rant. 

Thankfully, I haven't ran into that too much myself, but I have heard stories from others, some of them working for my own employer.  My company goes out of its way to recruit and keep engineers and salaried people, but doesn't always treat hourly people well.  All depends on their local manager and how much they back them up. 
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: sumpnz on October 14, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
Before my dad retired the first time (he sucked at retirement until about the 3rd time) he had a graph on the fridge.  It showed life expectancy vs age at retirement.  I donít remember exactly what the number were, but was something like retiring at 55 gave a life expectancy of about 85.  Retiring at 70 gave a life expectancy of about 72.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: JTHunter on October 14, 2021, 06:59:10 PM
Or writing someone up for being a few minutes late when they've showed up early and stayed late multiple times unpaid.

A company I worked at for a couple of months pulled that BS on me.  It was wintertime with snowy roads so I left 30 minutes earlier than usual, driving from Illinois to Bridgeton, MO.  As this was before cellphones had made much of an appearance, I didn't have one and we were supposed to call this "800" number to let them know we would be late.  I drove about 25 miles and got in about 10 minutes late.  One supervisor (not mine) was complaining about all the "no shows" and asked how far I had to drive.  When I told him, he was astonished as he said some of those "no shows" had to drive less than half that distance and didn't.
Later that day, MY "stupidvisor" told me I was being written up for not calling in as "late".  The funny thing was that supers name - McFail.
BTW, the company was working with the phone company and Yahoo (no surprise there) to set up people with DSL.  The company's name is/was Convergys.  [barf]
Run, don't walk, RUN.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: MechAg94 on October 14, 2021, 11:19:49 PM
I have found that nothing promotes a bad attitude among hourly employees like enforcing chicken *expletive deleted*it rules, especially rules around pay.  I guess that works for salaried people as well.
Title: Re: Record 4.3 million Americans quit their jobs in August
Post by: K Frame on October 15, 2021, 07:39:38 AM
"Good for them.

Here's some reasons people are quitting:"

The one fun thing about Facebook is that there are a LOT of stories (mainly grabbed from Reddit and other sites like that) that recount lots of crap like that. Some of them (like the one about "you can't go to your graduation because you have to work that day") result in the individual walking off the job that second, much to the shock of the manager/owner.

I've had a couple of horrible jobs, but each one has had some good things about it...

NRA (not being associate editor of American Rifleman, that was a hoot, but NRA's operations and the people above publications sucked)

Navy Federal Credit Union (low pay, military bullshit mentality of "I'm an officer, you'll do what I say!", but at least the people I worked with in my department were again, good (I, however, was a monster, I was really messed up mentally at the time) and I took a LOT of satisfaction in knowing that I was helping young enlistees learn about establishing a solid financial footing

My last gig before the one I'm in now. The customer was horrific, but I got some very valuable security clearance add ons that pretty much guarantee I'll never got very long between jobs.

Then there was SAIC. I spent 20 years there. Sure there were some annoyances, but SAIC treated its people well and for the first time in my career I was, from the outset, treated as a valued problem solver, not a wage monkey stealing from the pockets of management.

And now I'm at AT&T. I'm finding it very similar to SAIC in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's a seething pit of corporate wokeness, but I can deal with that. And I can also deal with the fact that on my team, when you do a good job, you get recognized and often rewarded.

And, I'm working literally 2 miles from my house. Lot to be said for that. :)