Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on December 04, 2021, 09:31:50 PM
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Live feed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZYBAjEhm3I
Anyone here know much about this group ?
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Report: Right-wing group ‘Patriot Front’ marching to the US Capitol
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/12/04/report-right-wing-group-patriot-front-marching-to-the-us-capitol/
I can't find a website or any kind of mission statement for them online. It's just a bunch of news websites calling them white nationalists or whatever. Does anyone have a legit website or interview with one of their leaders? The media has already proven they can't be trusted.
— WussGoood (@GooodWuss) December 4, 2021
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Sounds like a completely made up group to stir the “Look the fascists are out and about!” sentiments, especially since the media is getting treated as faker and faker by the passing day by people.
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I wonder how many of them had freshly cut short hair, with their facial piercings removed...
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Patriot Front?
Odd name - the first thing that came to mind was the terrorist group PFLP. (although that was Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.)
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Actually, given what the feds did a few months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some truth to the Twitchy suggestion. Or even jokers like the Lincoln project.
A couple of years ago, I would have considered that paranoid. Not anymore.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFzLRj9WQAUHGwf?format=jpg&name=small)
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Actually, given what the feds did a few months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some truth to the Twitchy suggestion. Or even jokers like the Lincoln project.
A couple of years ago, I would have considered that paranoid. Not anymore.
Well it gets even more fishy. They're the "nation’s most active hate group", so active no one has ever heard of or seen them before now and they move around in U-Haul convoys. Who's the U-Haul commander?
But this guy seems to know a lot about them.
If you’re in the DC area and see Penske, UHaul, or similar trucks that aren’t filled with freight, take out your camera and start filming. That’s how the Patriot Front typically gets in and out of the city. They’re likely staying at a private residence in nearby rural/suburbs. https://t.co/r7JqnizVkn
— Kristofer Goldsmith (@KrisGoldsmith85) December 4, 2021
Moving trucks will be noticeable because they’ll be staged together or traveling in a convoy. The trucks, if moving, are likely to have dozens of men inside at the moment. If @DCPoliceDept pulls them over — unmask to identify members of the nation’s most active hate group.
— Kristofer Goldsmith (@KrisGoldsmith85) December 4, 2021
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/12/05/so-about-that-dance-squad-sorry-patriot-front-group-in-khakis-marching-around-with-shields-and-riding-off-in-their-u-hauls-it-just-gets-dumber/
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And I saved the real gem for last
Patriot Front is one of the groups that I and a few other veterans keep infiltrating and documenting from the inside. I was the source for this BuzzFeed article.
Watched them talk about things like intentionally spreading COVID in minority neighborhoods:https://t.co/cTgrwUMtw1
— Kristofer Goldsmith (@KrisGoldsmith85) December 4, 2021
There's a bunch more at the twitchy link, a bunch more.
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https://twitter.com/KrisGoldsmith85/status/1466407078713516043?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
The guy's twitter page WOW!
He's got more loose screws than a screw factory. Everyone he doesn't like is a Nazi out to get him.
He describes himself as a "Hunter of fascists"
https://twitter.com/KrisGoldsmith85
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Seems familiar ...
(https://www.revivalnewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Reports-Desperate-Dems-Stage-False-Flag-Tiki-Torch-Photo-Op.jpg)
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Khaki pants = Nazi!
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Jason Kessler was a Clinton staffer before he was stirring up white supremacy in Charlottesville. I don’t know what to believe in most of this stuff but I hope the false flaggers are outed before there is a body count. Perhaps too late for that already.
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wiki has something with references back to 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front
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wiki has something with references back to 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front
Don't know anything about the patriot front, but I do know wiki has issues with facts.
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Don't know anything about the patriot front, but I do know wiki has issues with facts.
Yup. Wiki was somewhat biased from the gitgo regarding political topics and is now a full blown leftist site on that stuff. I don't think you can read anything about any conservative person or topic on that site anymore that doesn't have negative "facts".
I used to still use them for basic information, but their editors are so politically entrenched now that I can't even trust them for "what does 2+2 equal?"
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And I saved the real gem for last
There's a bunch more at the twitchy link, a bunch more.
Sounds like this idiot has completely invented this supposed group.
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Well, they got a bunch of actors... Seriously, I cannot imagine getting a group of unpaid conservative folks to all put on a 'uniform" and do that... Hell, it is hard enough to get them to actually show up at a protest event...
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Well, they got a bunch of actors... Seriously, I cannot imagine getting a group of unpaid conservative folks to all put on a 'uniform" and do that... Hell, it is hard enough to get them to actually show up at a protest event...
I can't imagine them demonstrating at night either.
I vote for it being a bunch of antifa guys playing a part. None of what I hear in the youtube video sounds like the right. I guess there are some idiots out there, but I would think anyone to the right of commies would see what has happened to the Jan 6th people and play it safe.
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The left knows how to organize. This is trademark left.
The right knows how to bitch and bellyache and... stay home because you gotta go to work, because we don't have rich people bankrolling us...
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The F B I Marching in DC?
What else is new?
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Looks like maybe they are a real, small, relatively unknown group who's current leader put one over on the MSM and used the woke journalism outrage machine to create free publicity for himself and his group:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/12/05/surprise-the-sheryllewellen-account-that-posted-the-viral-video-of-the-patriot-front-marchers-is-not-really-an-attractive-blonde-digital-print-journo-who-loves-avocados/
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Looks like maybe they are a real, small, relatively unknown group who's current leader put one over on the MSM and used the woke journalism outrage machine to create free publicity for himself and his group:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/12/05/surprise-the-sheryllewellen-account-that-posted-the-viral-video-of-the-patriot-front-marchers-is-not-really-an-attractive-blonde-digital-print-journo-who-loves-avocados/
Assuming it is true, he got his 15 minutes of fame and today still no one cares about that group.
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Assuming it is true, he got his 15 minutes of fame and today still no one cares about that group.
But, But, They're the "nation’s most active hate group" and they are "intentionally spreading COVID in minority neighborhoods"!
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I listened to Salty Cracker on Rumble/youtube last night. He was pointing out that when they were loading up in their U-haul to leave, they just tossed the flags in the back and climbed in apparently stomping all over the flags. Not to mention the upside down flag in the photo.
I still think there is a chance it is not a real group, but we will see.
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I listened to Salty Cracker on Rumble/youtube last night. He was pointing out that when they were loading up in their U-haul to leave, they just tossed the flags in the back and climbed in apparently stomping all over the flags. Not to mention the upside down flag in the photo.
I still think there is a chance it is no a real group, but we will see.
They could certainly still be a false flag or similar group, even on their own, instead of with a connection to the usual players. When you watch that one video of them marching, it looks like a bunch of High School nerds. Running, walking, turning around - like they have zero idea of what they're doing. Not to mention that I don't think any of the real patriot (and I mean like Three Percenters and other legit patriots vs "domestic terrorists") like dressing in khaki tac pants and navy blue, which is kind of an unofficial fed uniform.
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I also found it odd it was mostly done at night. That's BLM and ANTIFA time.
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I believe that is the first grassroots political group I've seen with enforced physical standards. All young guys, relatively fit, wearing pretty similar clothing. That's interesting enough.
That's a big group of people to get together to expect that it's going to stay quiet, though.
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Any of you guys that run in LEO circles recognize their shields?
I read an article that claimed they are very spendy and marketed exclusively to law enforcement.
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Any of you guys that run in LEO circles recognize their shields?
I read an article that claimed they are very spendy and marketed exclusively to law enforcement.
It is not one that I've seen before but looks more like a riot shield and I don't have any experience with those. I saw something about a Point Black Warrior shield but it seems like a pretty common design. It looks a bit like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/PAULSON-Round-Riot-Shield-400U89
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It is not one that I've seen before but looks more like a riot shield and I don't have any experience with those. I saw something about a Point Black Warrior shield but it seems like a pretty common design. It looks a bit like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/PAULSON-Round-Riot-Shield-400U89
I heard that they were clear serving platters that they picked up at the dollar store.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/12/06/we-are-gonna-look-cute-af-comedian-vinny-thomas-helps-patriot-front-get-their-outfits-ready-for-marching-on-d-c-and-roooofl-watch/
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It is not one that I've seen before but looks more like a riot shield and I don't have any experience with those. I saw something about a Point Black Warrior shield but it seems like a pretty common design. It looks a bit like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/PAULSON-Round-Riot-Shield-400U89
I went back and found the link, this is the tweet that started the Warrior shield talk
(https://redstatenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Screenshot-2021-12-05-at-09-36-13-10-Home-Twitter.png)
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Or alibaba.com
https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600311555569/3-0mm-security-gear-riot-shield.html
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Put a white and blue sticker on it and it looks like it to me.
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Again - the odds of getting a bunch of "conservatives" to actually wear the same uniform-like garb is similar to the odds of your local middle school football team making it to play in the NFL playoffs...
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;/
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/01/08/the-mysterious-right-wing-group-patriot-front-makes-an-appearance-at-the-march-for-life-in-chicago/
What is the glow reference all about?
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;/
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/01/08/the-mysterious-right-wing-group-patriot-front-makes-an-appearance-at-the-march-for-life-in-chicago/
What is the glow reference all about?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glowie
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;/
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/01/08/the-mysterious-right-wing-group-patriot-front-makes-an-appearance-at-the-march-for-life-in-chicago/
What is the glow reference all about?
Being used by groups afraid that the Feds have infiltrated their group in order to obtain info or incite them to do something illegal. Glowies.
bob
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What percentage of Feds have to infiltrate a group before it becomes an actual government agency?
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I looked at their website.
Assuming they are a real group, and not a FBI trap, they appear to be garden variety fascists.... they always capitalize the word "State" for example.
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This group just keeps getting weirder, and honestly, I continue to go back and forth on whether they are whacked out and real or false flag. Or even, as the story suggests, a real group being faked in the video similar to that Lincoln Project tiki torch stunt a while back.
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/01/22/is-this-leaked-video-purporting-to-show-patriot-front-members-real-or-staged-you-make-the-call/
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I'm at
80-90%: False Flag. Too stereotypically over the top and too close to how the MSM wants to portray right wing groups to be real.
10-20%: They are this whacked out.
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The leaks (legit or otherwise) are available here:
http://vault.unicornriot.ninja/patriotfrontleaks/
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I vote false flag psyop.
They may have attracted some dupes but those guys for the most part glow.
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Guess who
Moment 100 Patriot Front white supremacist group members march along Boston's Freedom Trail on July Fourth Weekend to ‘reclaim America’: Accused of assaulting black man during demonstration
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10977845/Moment-100-Patriot-white-supremacist-group-members-march-Bostons-Freedom-Trail.html
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Guess who
Moment 100 Patriot Front white supremacist group members march along Boston's Freedom Trail on July Fourth Weekend to ‘reclaim America’: Accused of assaulting black man during demonstration
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10977845/Moment-100-Patriot-white-supremacist-group-members-march-Bostons-Freedom-Trail.html
Patriot Front led nearly 100 members carrying white nationalist flags
I only see American flags. Maybe a couple of Betsy Ross flags.
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I only see American flags. Maybe a couple of Betsy Ross flags.
May be one or two in one of the photos. Hard to tell since they're curled up
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Still looks like a false flag group
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I only see American flags. Maybe a couple of Betsy Ross flags.
I'm not going to watch the video, but in the one still pic of that march at least 4 of the 10 flags are the"Patriot Front" flag with red and white chevrons and some gay little design in the canton.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/patriot-front
These little tweeps need a solid beating, or maybe a pillory. Feds or not.
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The BLM folks have a way better fundraising apparatus...
I suspect that our tax dollars are funding these clowns.
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I'm not going to watch the video, but in the one still pic of that march at least 4 of the 10 flags are the"Patriot Front" flag with red and white chevrons and some gay little design in the canton.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/patriot-front
These little tweeps need a solid beating, or maybe a pillory. Feds or not.
They're dweebs, but they're more on the level of the infamous Texas open carry protestors, and are 1000% less violent than BLM (who also have their own supremacist flags, but the MSM ignores them). These days, I wouldn't give the ADL any more credence than I would Southern Poverty Law.
If I ever run into these guys blocking me on the freeway, I might readjust my opinion. Until then, I'm more inclined to let them have their little marches and ignore them, the same way I ignore gay pride parades.
I will say that I'm a bit more, I guess sympathetic, to them now than when this particular thread started, mostly because of what happened to them in Idaho last month.
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I'm not going to watch the video, but in the one still pic of that march at least 4 of the 10 flags are the"Patriot Front" flag with red and white chevrons and some gay little design in the canton.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/patriot-front
These little tweeps need a solid beating, or maybe a pillory. Feds or not.
I just looked at the flag. Is that supposed to be a P-38 can opener?
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I just looked at the flag. Is that supposed to be a P-38 can opener?
It's a Fasces.
The word Fascist comes from it and was used as the symbol of The National Fascist Party
In case you're wondering what a fasces is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
Note it's use on the Seal of the US Senate, coins, and other things.
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The symbol is used all over the place in the US and I'm amazed the SJWs haven't started attacking it yet like they have the swastika.
Well unless you count when they see it on a flag carried by a bunch of white guys then it's a evil far right wing white supremacy symbol
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The fact that since it is so often associated with fascism and them using it screams false flag to me
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Don't believe the ADL, I was just offering a picture of their flag.
Believe their own words: https://patriotfront.us/
They are racist ahole, and don't deserve any sympathy at all. They may very well be racist aholes being spun up by Feds in their movement, but I'd be fine with beating down the feds and the racist aholes.
I'm also sick of the what aboutism. BLM sucks, and are ALSO racist aholes. ANTIFA are communist aholes, and suck. We don't have to pick a side between these groups. We should stomp ALL of them out.
If you can read the entirety of that website and still feel sympathy for them, you need to reevaluate yourself. If they are 100% all feds and the whole thing is a false flag, then they still deserve condemnation because they are faking racist ahole that well.
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Don't believe the ADL, I was just offering a picture of their flag.
Believe their own words: https://patriotfront.us/
They are racist ahole, and don't deserve any sympathy at all. They may very well be racist aholes being spun up by Feds in their movement, but I'd be fine with beating down the feds and the racist aholes.
I'm also sick of the what aboutism. BLM sucks, and are ALSO racist aholes. ANTIFA are communist aholes, and suck. We don't have to pick a side between these groups. We should stomp ALL of them out.
If you can read the entirety of that website and still feel sympathy for them, you need to reevaluate yourself. If they are 100% all feds and the whole thing is a false flag, then they still deserve condemnation because they are faking racist ahole that well.
No way shape or form feeling sympathy for them. Mostly what I've seen on here is that much of what they're saying and whatnot is so over the top stereotypical of how the left describes the right that many think they're a false flag group.
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Whether or not they're really a false flag group I can't say 100% for sure. Just when I see over the top BS that too perfectly fits a stereotypical template the alarm bells go off and we've seen attempts at false flag before.
Either way they're laughable and haven't really seem to have caused any real problems.
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I'm also sick of the what aboutism. BLM sucks, and are ALSO racist aholes. ANTIFA are communist aholes, and suck. We don't have to pick a side between these groups. We should stomp ALL of them out.
"Whataboutism" is absolutely valid, IMO. If these groups were all treated equally under the law, I might have a different opinion. Not treated equally, but equally under the law.
If the patriot front guys actually do riot, then bring the full force of the law down on them. As should be done, but never is, with BLM and antifa. I loathe antifa, but if they could manage to march and chant without physically attacking people, kidnapping people on the street, or destroying property, they can chant and march all they want as far as I'm concerned.
Government entities and the MSM constantly protect and/or make excuses for two of the above groups, but want the other group arrested for not doing anything illegal - even for "pre-crimes".
All three groups should be able to freely peacefully be out in public, even if I can't stand them. That's their right. All three groups should face the same punishments for violent behavior. Until that happens, you'll see me continue to use, "whataboutism".
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Personally I think you're backwards Ben. We shouldn't give the white racist aholes any leeway because of leeway given to black or red racist aholes.we shouldn't tolerate any of them.
There may well be feds in that group, but Rousseau isn't. There's plenty of genuine aholes in that group.
I also think that the kinda of whataboutism were discussing here leads too easily to the sympathy you expressed for them.
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Need a jurisdiction to lock them all up with no bail. Then you would know who the feds were when someone came to get them.
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Do you think they got a group discount at the 511 store?
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Personally I think you're backwards Ben. We shouldn't give the white racist aholes any leeway because of leeway given to black or red racist aholes.we shouldn't tolerate any of them.
If it sounds like that, no, I don't want to give them leeway. I don't want the other groups to get leeway. That is with the caveat that any of them are committing violence.
If they are peacefully marching, not blocking the public from going about their business, etc., they (JMO) get to say whatever stupid stuff they want, even if I hate it. All of them. The KKK and BLM are philosophically the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. I don't want any of them arrested for "pre-crimes" though, like these patriot guys were in Idaho.
You and I get to peacefully make fun of any and all of them for their philosophies as well.
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I haven't really been following these guys. Have they assaulted anyone, or damaged any property since they suddenly appeared out of nowhere? Have they killed anyone, or incited violence? Have they blocked any roads?
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The guy tagged as their leader, Rousseau, was involved with Vanguard America at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. Vanguard America is the group that James Fields marched with before running people over.
The various white nationalist groups, much like ANTIFA, BLM, and other leftist groups, aren't neccessary distinct from each other in membership.
Note: I'm not saying they should all be rounded up and jailed with no bail, but let's don't pretend they are peaceful misunderstood white nationalists. I would also say that any community they operate in should suggest they leave, forcefully.
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The guy tagged as their leader, Rousseau, was involved with Vanguard America at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. Vanguard America is the group that James Fields marched with before running people over.
The various white nationalist groups, much like ANTIFA, BLM, and other leftist groups, aren't neccessary distinct from each other in membership.
Note: I'm not saying they should all be rounded up and jailed with no bail, but let's don't pretend they are peaceful misunderstood white nationalists. I would also say that any community they operate in should suggest they leave, forcefully.
If that's an answer to my question, it sounds like a no.
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Dogmush,
I think we agree that these guys are some percentage fascist, racist trash and some percentage of people pretending to be fascist, racist trash.
In what ways should they be handled differently by our government as a group and as individuals than Marxist racist trash?
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Dogmush,
I think we agree that these guys are some percentage fascist, racist trash and some percentage of people pretending to be fascist, racist trash.
In what ways should they be handled differently by our government as a group and as individuals than Marxist racist trash?
I don't feel they should be handled differently than Marxist racist trash. I would like to see both groups handled as the Patriot Front is. Which is to say that they should be watched closely as they march and spew their bullshit, denounced by the local community and local leaders as racist aholes, and when they go so far as to plus up with pyro and an written ops plan for a violence at a protests, arrested and charged by the justice system. I would add that it would tickle me pink if no local business would serve them as well.
I agree that leftist groups are being let off easy, and that is adding to the left/right rift and will lead to more violence down the line. My contention is that Patriot Front is not being treated unfairly, they have earned what LE attention they receive with their words, actions, and the actions of the people they associate with. I'd love to see that same attention paid to the Marxist racists. That's the answer: don't allow ANY violent extremism, not wish he had more groups added to the "free pass" list.
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I don't feel they should be handled differently than Marxist racist trash. I would like to see both groups handled as the Patriot Front is. Which is to say that they should be watched closely as they march and spew their bullshit, denounced by the local community and local leaders as racist aholes, and when they go so far as to plus up with pyro and an written ops plan for a violence at a protests, arrested and charged by the justice system. I would add that it would tickle me pink if no local business would serve them as well.
I'm largely in agreement, however I'm not sure that I'd consider a single smoke grenade "plus[ing] up with pyro" (certainly not anything like equivalent to the way we've seen leftist rioters do with repurposed firework shells and Molotov cocktails), and while I've seen many reference to written plans in reporting, I couldn't find anything with the actual text of those plans or any indication that the plans referred to unlawful behavior. The most detailed description I found after a brief search was:
"(One) document was typed and discussed the group being there to raise a voice against the moral depravity which permits events such as this to take place," writes Coeur d'Alene Police Officer Alan Gilbert. "There was also a typed organizational document outlining call locations, primary checkpoints, drill times, prep times and observation windows. There were also GPS coordinates for a drop point with two backup plans."
From this description I'm getting the impression of a mission statement and logistics, not so much moustache twirling plans detailing criminal conspiracy.
But maybe the notoriously right-wing-extremists at CNN are covering up for their fellow travelers.
I agree that leftist groups are being let off easy, and that is adding to the left/right rift and will lead to more violence down the line. My contention is that Patriot Front is not being treated unfairly, they have earned what LE attention they receive with their words, actions, and the actions of the people they associate with. I'd love to see that same attention paid to the Marxist racists. That's the answer: don't allow ANY violent extremism, not wish he had more groups added to the "free pass" list.
If leftist groups are routinely being let off easy for their violence and riots, then Patriot Front is being treated unfairly - especially where they have not yet crossed the line into violent extremism and are still at the "orderly marching while saying things I disagree with" phase.
I'd also note that if ANTIFA and BLM were being arrested for plans to lawfully march in protest or because their planned protest might turn into a riot I'd also be concerned despite my dislike for what they advocate for.
You're a well informed and thoughtful person, so it is possible you've seen more evidence than I have to back up your position, but my perspective is that while you are correctly equating the immorality of the PF's beliefs to the immorality of BLM/ANTIFA beliefs, you seem to be incorrectly drawing an equivalence regarding violent and unlawful behavior.
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I'm largely in agreement, however I'm not sure that I'd consider a single smoke grenade "plus[ing] up with pyro" (certainly not anything like equivalent to the way we've seen leftist rioters do with repurposed firework shells and Molotov cocktails), and while I've seen many reference to written plans in reporting, I couldn't find anything with the actual text of those plans or any indication that the plans referred to unlawful behavior. The most detailed description I found after a brief search was:From this description I'm getting the impression of a mission statement and logistics, not so much moustache twirling plans detailing criminal conspiracy.
I can't find it right now, but local news released an image of the part of the plan that CDA PD released. The worst you could say about it was that there was language in it that suggested they might have wanted to verbally antagonize some pride people, then retreat. The CDA police chief was adamant about "imminent riot" based on the documentation in the U-haul. If that's the case, then why not release the language that indicated a riot was inbound? I suspect what we saw on the local news was the worst part of their "ops plan" . As to the single "smoke grenade", it has never been shown. We still don't know if it was a real "tactical pyrotechnic" or if it was a gopher bomb. Both are legal to possess in Idaho.
The above continues to be my biggest problem with this incident and why I sound like I'm supporting what Patriot Front does (which I don't). Everything I have read locally indicates to me that the liberal police chief in CdA arrested them for "pre-crime". I worry about the slippery slope, which is why it's important to me to defend the legal activities of people I don't like.
An analogy would be what we have seen many times in the past - someone open carrying a pistol in a state where it's legal to do so, but in a city that disapproves of such (with no local ordinances forbidding it). It may not be smart, but it's legal, and we have all seen the videos of what the cops do to these people. Few of the interactions are pleasant.
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Part of it is, I'm not really upset with the Idaho thing. they weren't J6'd, they were arrested, some of them were hit with misdemeanor charges based on the plan (which I admit I haven't read) and released.
Part of it is that I keep seeing the same names of individuals moving from group to group, so while "Patriot Front" hasn't been violent, "Vanguard America" and "Identity Evropa" certainly have, and they have significant overlap of membership. In the case of VA, almost 100%. PF sprang up from the VA discord servers after one of that groups members killed someone in Charlottesville, and they decided to "retire" that brand. I am unwilling to let them play the "we aren't violent that's the other BAD white supremacist's" game when it is largely the same individuals.
I also don't (or try not to) conflate actual violence, with unlawful, or distasteful behavior. Distasteful behavior, like the recent march in Boston, should be allowed by law enforcement, but condemned by the community. Unlawful behavior like the alleged plans for violence in Idaho, or the trespassing in the capitol, should be dealt with by Law Enforcement and the Justice system. An arrest and misdemeanor charges seem appropriate, and gives them their day in court if they want to argue they were targeted. Actual violence like Portland or Kenosha should be water cannoned off the streets, and arrested for felonies from the gutter, and those charges should be pressed. I am aware that we are having real problems following through on that last part, but still that's the should.
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Part of it is, I'm not really upset with the Idaho thing. they weren't J6'd, they were arrested, some of them were hit with misdemeanor charges based on the plan (which I admit I haven't read) and released.
If the charges are legit and The Plan detailed their imminent criminal actions as you imply, then sure. If not, arresting someone and charging them specifically to prevent lawful (if odious) political speech seems like it might fall afoul of something that used to be important.
Part of it is that I keep seeing the same names of individuals moving from group to group, so while "Patriot Front" hasn't been violent, "Vanguard America" and "Identity Evropa" certainly have, and they have significant overlap of membership. In the case of VA, almost 100%. PF sprang up from the VA discord servers after one of that groups members killed someone in Charlottesville, and they decided to "retire" that brand. I am unwilling to let them play the "we aren't violent that's the other BAD white supremacist's" game when it is largely the same individuals.
Yeah, I'm sure they have significant overlapping membership and similar ideas and blah blah blah. As far as I'm concerned they're all scum. However, using literally one attack to justify labeling any similar or connected group as "violent extremists" is stretching it.
Maybe you haven't considered which groups you belong to that share members with other groups that have had a member do something evil.
I also don't (or try not to) conflate actual violence, with unlawful, or distasteful behavior. Distasteful behavior, like the recent march in Boston, should be allowed by law enforcement, but condemned by the community. Unlawful behavior like the alleged plans for violence in Idaho, or the trespassing in the capitol, should be dealt with by Law Enforcement and the Justice system. An arrest and misdemeanor charges seem appropriate, and gives them their day in court if they want to argue they were targeted. Actual violence like Portland or Kenosha should be water cannoned off the streets, and arrested for felonies from the gutter, and those charges should be pressed. I am aware that we are having real problems following through on that last part, but still that's the should.
I agree with that, I'm just not sure that I've seen anything to indicate that the Idaho thing falls where you file it.
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How do we feel about this story?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-man-wearing-antifa-gear-allegedly-targets-florida-rally-police-find-explosives-at-home
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How do we feel about this story?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-man-wearing-antifa-gear-allegedly-targets-florida-rally-police-find-explosives-at-home
I'm not sure where you're going with that (not an accusation, I'm actually unsure)? The article said he had an illegal explosive device on him.
Smith was arrested by police shortly after 7:30 p.m., and police searched his backpack and found a pipe explosive device, along with a "Direct Action Checklist," which lists what clothing he wore, along with "gear," including a "gas mask and filters, pepper spray, smoke rockets and flammable rags," according to Gualtieri.
I don't know, other than the pipe bomb, what is legal or illegal to possess in that state. I will say that "flammable rags" sounds a lot like how the patriot front was accused of having "spears" which were actually their flag poles. I'm not sure how LE making *expletive deleted*it up helps either side of this argument? A pipe bomb would be a clear and legitimate reason to arrest someone.
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It wasn't a pipe bomb, The Pinellas County sheriff was just better at phrasing things to sound like they were being reasonable. All charges were dropped when it was pointed out that his explosives were completely legal smoke devices.
And yet, it is entirely plausible that he was indeed there to throw that pyro at one of the J6 protesters, and very probably injure them, so the deputies scooping him up mid plan very likely did prevent violence at that rally.
I'm not trying to catch anyone out with this or accuse anyone of hypocrisy, there aren't necessarily easy right answers to "How do you handle violent racists". At least on of the dudes arrested in Idaho has personally committed violence while affiliated with a different group. I recognize his name from AT circulars. would they have chucked smoke into the Pride Parade and smacked people with poles? Individuals there have done it before.
I understand the 1A issues, which is why I've never said they shouldn't march and wave their gay little can opener flag. I'm just unwilling to cut a group of people that give each other "Sieg Heil"s any slack once they look to be progressing towards confrontation. Should we wait for pyro to fly?
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Wrong thread. Sorry.
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It wasn't a pipe bomb,
I didn't see that in the linked story. Did I miss it there? I would argue that something rigged to look like an illegal explosive is different than a perfectly legal pyrotechnic that as far as we know, was not rigged to look like something it was not. There could still be reason to investigate someone with the legal pyrotechnic, but not simply for having it, IMO. Nor, again, with the cops trying to make something appear dangerous and illegal, as with "flammable rags". He could have had a few bandanas in his ruck. Those are flammable.
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Should we wait for pyro to fly?
To be devil's advocate, yes. In the same way you wouldn't arrest someone legally open carrying an AR and wearing a Gadsden t-shirt in front of a state capitol because they might shoot someone.
I don't think any of us in this debate are on extreme ends of a pendulum, though it might sound like it. I think we each are emphasizing the parts of this debate we deem important even though it makes the one side sound a little police-statey and the other side a little domestic terrorist symapthizerey, even though we are all none of those things. =)
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It wasn't a pipe bomb, The Pinellas County sheriff was just better at phrasing things to sound like they were being reasonable. All charges were dropped when it was pointed out that his explosives were completely legal smoke devices.
And yet, it is entirely plausible that he was indeed there to throw that pyro at one of the J6 protesters, and very probably injure them, so the deputies scooping him up mid plan very likely did prevent violence at that rally.
I'm not trying to catch anyone out with this or accuse anyone of hypocrisy, there aren't necessarily easy right answers to "How do you handle violent racists". At least on of the dudes arrested in Idaho has personally committed violence while affiliated with a different group. I recognize his name from AT circulars. would they have chucked smoke into the Pride Parade and smacked people with poles? Individuals there have done it before.
I understand the 1A issues, which is why I've never said they shouldn't march and wave their gay little can opener flag. I'm just unwilling to cut a group of people that give each other "Sieg Heil"s any slack once they look to be progressing towards confrontation. Should we wait for pyro to fly?
Yes, because until the pyro flies, they are guilty of nothing more than a thought crime (using the leftist vernacular). Do we really want to be arresting people for thought crimes?
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There's a whole list of crimes that are "conspiracy to......"
History of violence, multiple statements that they are willing to commit violence, with the gear to commit that violence, on their way to a place to commit violence, with notes indicating a plan to commit violence......I don't see that as a 1A violation to stop that group and arrest them. Whichever colors they drape themselves in. YMMV
Ben, I just grabbed the first article on that event I googled. That was local to me so I know how it ended. Let me see if I can find one of the "couple days later" articles.
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History of violence, multiple statements that they are willing to commit violence, with the gear to commit that violence, on their way to a place to commit violence, with notes indicating a plan to commit violence......I don't see that as a 1A violation to stop that group and arrest them. Whichever colors they drape themselves in. YMMV
Dude, you're overselling this more than the "pipe explosive" Sheriff did. Anyone willing to bend the truth that much could hem you up in a heartbeat.
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Ben, Here's an article on the charges being dropped, including pics of the offending pyro:
https://www.tampabay.com/news/breaking-news/2022/02/16/charges-dropped-against-pinellas-man-accused-of-having-explosive-device-near-jan-6-rally/
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Ben, Here's an article on the charges being dropped, including pics of the offending pyro:
https://www.tampabay.com/news/breaking-news/2022/02/16/charges-dropped-against-pinellas-man-accused-of-having-explosive-device-near-jan-6-rally/
Ok, thanks. A bit more info there. =)
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The more the media reports on groups like Patriot Front, Proud Boys, Qanon, etc., the less I feel I know . . . which ain't much. ;/
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They're not angel perfect and probably aholes but I want to know
How many people have they assaulted?
How many police have they beat and put in the hospital?
How many buildings have they burnt down?
How many streets and highways have they blocked?
How many drivers have they pull pull out of cars and beat?
How many cars have they torched?
How many city blocks have they blocked off and declared a sovereign state?
How many stores have they looted and burned?
How many times have they threaten to burn it all down?
How much money have they extorted from cities and businesses?
How many mansions have they bought with that money?
How many members of congress have knelt before them?
Are they just an idea?
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More and more convinced these guys are fake
I mean if this isn't over the top nothing is
https://twitter.com/telltaleatheist/status/1563186437289553920
Leaked Patriot Front video shows the members training for war
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/08/30/leaked-patriot-front-video-shows-the-members-training-for-war/
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Looks like training to oppose other protestors. A full blown riot would be worse than that I would think.
all the shin/knee guards match perfectly (and are impeccably clean) This is a well financed op, not a bunch of guys buying their own stuff and even painting it to match colors (which would still show different models and imprecise paint jobs) the FBI can't even fake well
I think I see Ray Epps
:rofl:
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Training for war? Against the Carthaginians maybe ...
ETA: someone needs to bring a catapult and a cow.
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IMHO all of these white nationalist groups have one purpose. To further fracture the white percentage of the population politically.
Let's make standing up for the nations actual posterity a hateful thing. Let's focus on the "hate" white people demonstrate, not on the first world civilization building gifts they have brought the world. Let's redefine white hate as any time white people stand up for their historic culture(s).
Focusing on the shortcomings of the white tribe(s) keeps your eyes off the looting of the country by the other tribes of the world, the tribes white people have invited to their country.
The time for the homogenous people of America to stand up for their country has long past us. We live in the GAE and as white folks we better get used to being treated poorly. The Chinese, the Jews, the Sub Con Indians have and are all carving out their piece of the pie along with American blacks and Mexican descent citizens. States made up of many nations are empires. Empires are not homogenous and eventually fracture. E pluribus unum is a lie in the long run, particularly when you add so many players. Turns out states of many tribes are empires, and empires have different goals and purposes than nations.
Someone or someone(s) played the long game on the nation and used our purported strengths and moral notions to destroy the nation. Time to readjust your expectations and find your place, make your peace in the multicultural failing empire. Sucks, but once you see it you cannot unsee it, that's the difference between delusion and reality.
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Ron, you're behind the times. White folk don't have to actually do anything to be hateful anymore. We're just born that way. Didn't they tell you?
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If nothing else, it does seem to further division which I imagine is a goal of some people.
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Does anyone know if my prior service and/or college credits would make me eligible to start at a higher rank in the PF?
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Does anyone know if my prior service and/or college credits would make me eligible to start at a higher rank in the PF?
Do you fit the "young and physically fit" profile of those guys? (I don't) Doesn't look like a bunch of middle aged gun club guys.
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Do you fit the "young and physically fit" profile of those guys? (I don't) Doesn't look like a bunch of middle aged gun club guys.
I'm sure the recruiter will work with me, to help me pass the physical.
Anyone know if Patriot Front are eligible for the GI Bill? And can I retire early after 15 years, or would I have to do 20?
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They're baaaack
🚨#UPDATE: Around 150-200 individuals affiliated with the Patriot Front group are now putting their shields and flags into white U-Haul vans after they Marched around Washington DC for about an hour. they are now making their way back into the metro pic.twitter.com/DiITwSHMbQ
— R A W S A L E R T S (@rawsalerts) May 13, 2023
Patriot Front marches around DC before piling back into U-Hauls
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/05/13/patriot-front-marches-around-dc-before-piling-back-into-u-hauls/
Seems like they come out once in awhile, prance around media cameras for a bit and leave.
But wait, there's more.
Joe Rogan and Matt Taibbi making fun of the absolutely absurd "Patriot Front" awhile back still cracks me up to this day…
"This is so stupid it hurts my feelings"
"WHERE'S THE FAT PEOPLE!?" pic.twitter.com/F82RJAKYhB
— Gain of Fauci (@DschlopesIsBack) May 14, 2023
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/05/14/joe-rogan-blasts-obviously-staged-patriot-front-as-only-he-can-and-its-simply-perfection-watch/
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Probably been posted already
(https://i.redd.it/nobody-believes-this-is-an-actual-organic-group-v0-vyxikob70uza1.jpg?s=f8e6ae9be6b3967ef6451e4ffe0704bc504038ef)
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Two days after the Oval Office potter plant declared white supremacists to be threat #1 in the country. And a crack baby to keep out of the news.
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IMHO all of these white nationalist groups have one purpose. To further fracture the white percentage of the population politically.
Can you please explain, Ron?
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And it keeps getting more bizarre
A member of a white nationalist group Patriot Front is facing up to 30 years behind bars after pleading guilty to child porn charges.
Utah native Jared M. Boyce, 28, was one of 31 members of the extremist group arrested last year after they were found in the rear of a U-Haul van, planning to disrupt and intimidate an LGBTQ pride event in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho.
A month after his arrest, the FBI searched Boyce’s phone and found images of children performing sex acts, according to court documents obtained by Fox13.
Boyce admitted to possessing the images and to sending a photo of his genitals to a 16-year-old girl, according to the court documents.
Yep, sounds like someone who works for the government. (That's only partly sarcasm)
Patriot Front member facing 30 years for child porn charges
https://nypost.com/2023/05/27/patriot-front-member-facing-30-years-for-child-porn-charges/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nypost
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I certainly DO NOT condone or tolerate kiddie p0rn producers or consumers I am sometimes a little skeptical when the government "discovers" child p0rn on a device belonging to an enemy of the "current administration".
Most of those that are guilty of child p0rn charges just need to be duly tried, properly convicted and then taken out back and shot.
The skeptical issue comes up when you realize just how damaging just an accusation of child p0rn can be against someone. Nobody, not friends or even family will be willing to stand up for the accused. It will totally destroy their support base.
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The "government" seems to be very lucky in the ways they "find" things.
Why can't they find the info on Hunter's laptop? How about "Hitlery's" emails?
And let's not forget the Durham report and what it is showing the country about how certain "alphabet agencies" have become so biased and "weaponized". [popcorn] :facepalm: [barf]
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(https://i.redd.it/jw4uksyk173b1.png?s=b7f814c981d02abb296557db17e3364114671edd)
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I certainly DO NOT condone or tolerate kiddie p0rn producers or consumers I am sometimes a little skeptical when the government "discovers" child p0rn on a device belonging to an enemy of the "current administration".
Most of those that are guilty of child p0rn charges just need to be duly tried, properly convicted and then taken out back and shot.
The skeptical issue comes up when you realize just how damaging just an accusation of child p0rn can be against someone. Nobody, not friends or even family will be willing to stand up for the accused. It will totally destroy their support base.
This was pre-Trump, but I recall an interview maybe 15 years ago by someone who was "under investigation" because they were in opposition to the Clinton's (I think). They got a specialist to do a detailed check on their computer. The guy found a file buried in a Windows subdirectory that would be hard for a typical computer user to find. Apparently the file was some sort of child porn content. They didn't know how it got there. They suspected someone got access and planted it at some point. Unfortunately, I don't remember who it was.
IMO, I think it is a healthy thing to question charges like this at least to verify the scope of what was actually done/found; and don't trust vague hand waving answers.
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(https://i.redd.it/jw4uksyk173b1.png?s=b7f814c981d02abb296557db17e3364114671edd)
Years ago there was a story about some agency investigating either an elected official or some high level political appointee for bribery. The agency offered him a bribe, he accepted, and agents burst into his office to arrest him for taking a bribe.
Whereupon agents from ANOTHER agency burst in to arrest THEM for bribing the person in question - who was wearing a wire, having contacted this other law enforcement agency of the pending bribe attempt.
Much hilarity ensued. (IIRC, they even had a skit on a TV comedy show which was inspired by this story.)
The point being that so many different agencies are doing so many undercover investigations that it's beginning to look like a Keystone Kops type of thing. And you start to wonder how many offenses are genuine and how many originate with agent provocateurs.
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I ran across this video on Twitter this morning. I don't know if it's in DC, or elsewhere (One of the shirts seems to say Portland) But Patriot Front apparently wandered up to a conservative demonstration thinking they'd be friends, and were immediately driven off with flags, cries of "Begone, Bitch" and violence that culminated in several PF folks having their masks ripped off and them running away in terror of having their faces filmed.
All in all a great film. Pop some popcorn:
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1672981094902185986?s=20
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I ran across this video on Twitter this morning. I don't know if it's in DC, or elsewhere (One of the shirts seems to say Portland) But Patriot Front apparently wandered up to a conservative demonstration thinking they'd be friends, and were immediately driven off with flags, cries of "Begone, Bitch" and violence that culminated in several PF folks having their masks ripped off and them running away in terror of having their faces filmed.
All in all a great film. Pop some popcorn:
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1672981094902185986?s=20
My guess is DC since IIRC that seems to be the only place we see them. Gee I wonder why?
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My guess is DC since IIRC that seems to be the only place we see them. Gee I wonder why?
They don’t have the budget for travel pay?
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Even Adam Kinzinger has admitted that they are undercover feds. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
https://twitchy.com/gordon-kushner/2023/06/25/adam-kinzinger-seems-to-really-heart-fascism-n2384822
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Even Adam Kinzinger has admitted that they are undercover feds. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
https://twitchy.com/gordon-kushner/2023/06/25/adam-kinzinger-seems-to-really-heart-fascism-n2384822
I don't think he intended to say they were Feds, but it is funny nonetheless.
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I don't think he intended to say they were Feds, but it is funny nonetheless.
I'm really not seeing it. It as in where did he said they were feds?
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I'm really not seeing it. It as in where did he said they were feds?
These people (all blue checks) are celebrating a seemingly MAGA assault on federal officers. Now i don’t know what this really is, but take a gander at the comments of the “patriots” who “love” America
I guess it's more accurate to say he said they are seemingly Feds.
In my mind it's more of an own to point out that he equated "loving America" and being "Patriotic" with blind support of federal law enforcement even if they were dressing up as Neo-Nazi's. He's using scare quotes to imply that you can't say you love America if you aren't behind anything the Feds do. Including, one supposes, internment camps.
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I guess it's more accurate to say he said they are seemingly Feds.
Yeah, he's probably commenting based on everyone else commenting about the running joke (or not) that patriot front is full of fed stooges.
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Wait a minute... the neo nazi group were the feds?
Adam Kinzinger enters 'desperation mode' after tweeting about neo-Nazis at Proud Boys event being feds
https://twitchy.com/sarahd/2023/06/26/kinzinger-nazis-n2384834
(https://i.imgflip.com/2unmv6.jpg)
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Wait a minute... the neo nazi group were the feds?
Adam Kinzinger enters 'desperation mode' after tweeting about neo-Nazis at Proud Boys event being feds
https://twitchy.com/sarahd/2023/06/26/kinzinger-nazis-n2384834
Yes. (maybe) There's a running internet joke (theory?) that the Patriot Front; the guys with masks, khakis, and navy blue tops that film themselves "sieg heil"-ing everywhere, are mostly or totally a federal organization. The proponents of this theory point out that they are offly choreographed, unusually fit for a bunch of white supremacist's, and often get perplexingly soft or favorable treatment by law enforcement. On that last one, they were allowed to walk through DC protected by DC Metro cops, then when they went into the Metro the station was closed off by law enforcement so no press could watch them change out of their uniforms and scatter. When a bunch were arrested out by Ben's house last year they were pulled out of a truck and flexi-cuffed suspiciously loosely, and allowed to keep their masks on while under arrest, behavior that a bunch of law enforcement has called out as very unusual. Stuff like that.
Whether they are completely .gov run controlled opposition to paint a narrative, or simply stooges being egged on by feds [again] it's almost certain that a good number of that group are either straight up Law Enforcement, or at least CI's for various agencies.
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. . . Whether they are completely .gov run controlled opposition to paint a narrative, or simply stooges being egged on by feds [again] it's almost certain that a good number of that group are either straight up Law Enforcement, or at least CI's for various agencies.
This is completely plausible. After the OKC bombing there was a concerted effort to tie the event to "militia" groups, especially one in Michigan. The legacy media didn't like it at all that the OKC bomber had been rejected by the Michigan militia when he tried to join, since they considered him a nut. About a year or two later when a militia member was being interviewed, he said membership was up - and that MOST OF THE PEOPLE JOINING WERE FEDS! From multiple agencies.
So people began asking the question, "How many Feds have to join an organization before it can be considered a government agency?" :rofl:
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You guys weren't issued your shields, khakis, blue shirts, and face masks by your local Republican Party group, church, gun club, or gay-bashing club? Being active in all 4, I got multiple sets! (Don't tell them that.)
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Guess who
#BREAKING: A group called the Patriot Front are currently marching down at the World Trade Center
📌#Manhattan l #NewYork
Currently, approximately 90-150 individuals identified as the "Patriot Front" and recognized as a right-wing organization are advancing towards the 9/11 World Trade Center located in downtown Manhattan in New York City. Numerous sightings have been reported from the subways into the Oculus Mall, and now towards the 9/11 World Trade Center, New York City police officers are currently keeping an eye out while escorting them as they work to maintain a separation between any counter-protesters or any other individuals.
https://twitchy.com/brettt/2024/01/20/far-right-patriot-front-marches-through-manhattan-n2391971
The FBI must be bored
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I wonder if O'Keefe has tried to get in with those guys.
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This "anti-Zion" thing is new, isn't it? I don't recall them doing the white supremacy / KKK thing before. They're still knuckleheads whether the real deal, the real deal full of FBI informants, or whether an FBI front, but to suddenly now go anti-Jew seems a little fishy.
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This "anti-Zion" thing is new, isn't it? I don't recall them doing the white supremacy / KKK thing before. They're still knuckleheads whether the real deal, the real deal full of FBI informants, or whether an FBI front, but to suddenly now go anti-Jew seems a little fishy.
Anti-Jooish sentiment on the Left has gotten a little out of hand these days. They need to remind us it's really the right-wing maga-maga scaries that really hate the Joos.
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The odd thing to me about Patriot Front is it seems too obvious as a set up. All I can figure is someone thinks it looks good on the network news. Might also mean some agency has too much money to spend.
Might also be another sign that the current generation of New World Order elites are arrogant and somewhat stupid.
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You guys weren't issued your shields, khakis, blue shirts, and face masks by your local Republican Party group, church, gun club, or gay-bashing club? Being active in all 4, I got multiple sets! (Don't tell them that.)
Don't get them mixed up, as in an Organization A mask with an Organization B blue shirt, or they'll think you're an actual Honest-To-G-d dedicated member of the target organization and you'll be detained for real.
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Don't get them mixed up, as in an Organization A mask with an Organization B blue shirt, or they'll think you're an actual Honest-To-G-d dedicated member of the target organization and you'll be detained for real.
That's the beauty of the Patriot Guard. All of the uniforms are - ya know - uniform. So we get to LARP as MAGAfundyNazis, but we have the same big-time funding and organization as all the other Left-wing goons.
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If they were real every democrat and journalist, sorry to repeat myself, would be all over them trying to ID them and get them fired from their jobs.
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https://rumble.com/v48ldji-are-they-gay-or-are-they-feds.html
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The odd thing to me about Patriot Front is it seems too obvious as a set up. All I can figure is someone thinks it looks good on the network news. Might also mean some agency has too much money to spend.
Might also be another sign that the current generation of New World Order elites are arrogant and somewhat stupid.
In the video above, she says they only show up in blue cities. I don't know if that's true, but it would make sense if their purpose was merely to make all the talk about scary white nationalism seem like a real threat.
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In the video above, she says they only show up in blue cities. I don't know if that's true, but it would make sense if their purpose was merely to make all the talk about scary white nationalism seem like a real threat.
They showed up in Coeur de Alene last year to protest the drag shows for kids, if you remember our thread on that. Not exactly a blue city, but the CDA cops handled it like blue cops, after the anonymous tip.
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In the video above, she says they only show up in blue cities. I don't know if that's true, but it would make sense if their purpose was merely to make all the talk about scary white nationalism seem like a real threat.
What big city isn't blue?
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They showed up in Coeur de Alene last year to protest the drag shows for kids, if you remember our thread on that. Not exactly a blue city, but the CDA cops handled it like blue cops, after the anonymous tip.
That's the one where they yanked them out of the truck, let them keep mostly keep their masks on and gave them the loosest Flex Cuffs in history? Yeah, totally legit.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/11/1104405804/patriot-front-white-supremacist-arrested-near-idaho-pride
Five of the 31 douches at that arrest got jail time:
https://apnews.com/article/patriot-front-riot-charges-idaho-pride-320afcd56c122e34d3884628fe358da5
I'd be really interested in the Venn Diagram of who was allowed to keep their mask on while in custody and who caught charges.