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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 10:01:34 PM

Title: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 10:01:34 PM
Quote
    The Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito and obtained by POLITICO.

    “We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Alito writes. https://t.co/nl3JFLx9xg
BOMBSHELL: POLITICO reports SCOTUS has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade according to leaked draft opinion by Justice Alito
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/02/bombshell-politico-reports-scotus-has-voted-to-strike-down-roe-v-wade-according-to-leaked-draft-opinion-by-justice-alito/
    — POLITICO (@politico) May 3, 2022

If true who leak it? I got some suspicions

Quote
    This is the first time in modern history that the public has seen a Supreme Court draft decision while a case was still pending. https://t.co/s9XOFDKRPp

    — POLITICO (@politico) May 3, 2022


Meanwhile get ready for some major fire works
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 02, 2022, 10:12:06 PM
Meanwhile get ready for some major fire works

I'm sure the protests will be fiery but mostly peaceful.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: T.O.M. on May 02, 2022, 10:14:36 PM
I'll need to read the decision before I can comment too much.  That said, I'll be surprised if the current Congress doesn't push to increase the number of justices to 15 in response to this ruling.  They'll push to get all six new seats filled while Joe is in the Oval Office, and try to carry a 10-5 liberal majority into the foreseeable future.  And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Andiron on May 02, 2022, 10:18:52 PM
I'll need to read the decision before I can comment too much.  That said, I'll be surprised if the current Congress doesn't push to increase the number of justices to 15 in response to this ruling.  They'll push to get all six new seats filled while Joe is in the Oval Office, and try to carry a 10-5 liberal majority into the foreseeable future.  And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.

Like any of this matters.  This *expletive deleted*it went off the rails when elections stopped mattering.  The rest is seating arrangements on doomed a ocean liner.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 10:25:04 PM
  And that's a real threat to our 2A rights.

Not just the 2nd.
The left firmly believes in "common sense" restrictions on all rights.
Look at the hell they're giving Musk over free speech.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: grampster on May 02, 2022, 10:26:45 PM
There is no proof the alleged writing is true or even recent.  Just another attempt by the Demomedia to stir up the cretins before the midterms.  I think we can expect a lot of this propaganda as well as more attempts to replace facts with propaganda.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 10:29:50 PM
There is no proof the alleged writing is true or even recent.  Just another attempt by the Demomedia to stir up the cretins before the midterms.  I think we can expect a lot of this propaganda as well as more attempts to replace facts with propaganda.

Very reason why I titled this "being reported"
It very well could be an attempt to stir up trouble
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 02, 2022, 10:39:49 PM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/leak-of-scotus-draft-on-roe-v-wade-stuns-nation-this-leak-is-the-gravest-most-unforgivable-sin

If the leak is real, this does bring up some serious issues.  I can't remember hearing of a leak from the SC. 
Quote
SCOTUSblog: “It’s impossible to overstate the earthquake this will cause inside the Court, in terms of the destruction of trust among the Justices and staff. This leak is the gravest, most unforgivable sin.”

If true, I think this is better in the long run.  Push that issue back to the state level and/or force parties to push actual legislation. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 02, 2022, 10:54:46 PM
As mentioned, I’ve never heard of a leak on SCOTUS decisions ahead of official release.  If this is a legit draft decision the justices will probably fire every last clerk and staffer if they can’t identify the culprit(s).  Any justice that refused to do so would be presumed a collaborator and not trusted with anything ever again.

My money would be on Jackson (and/or her clerks/staff) as the leak source.  She’s so new she probably doesn’t fully appreciate the magnitude of the betrayal.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 11:09:42 PM
Quote
While some remained skeptical that the leak is a real draft, SCOTUSblog tweeted Monday night that the document is "almost certainly" authentic:

Quote
Many observers, pundits, and even Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) speculated that the leak came from a liberal clerk who sought to add pressure to the situation — either for a conservative justice to change their vote or to spur Congress to work on legislation that would again create a "right" to abortion before SCOTUS can overturn that right it previously created.

Supreme Court to Overturn Roe v. Wade According to Leaked Draft Opinion
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/05/02/rare-scotus-leak-shows-majority-opinion-overturning-roe-v-wade-n2606645
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 02, 2022, 11:09:50 PM
T.O.M. called it.  The Left will be calling for packing the court over the summer.

I'm particularly intrigued by this though (if true):

Quote
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.

“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”

source:  https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473

I'm not sure I like the notion of the Court discriminating between various un-enumerated rights having greater or lesser standing.  Or singling them out.

All in all, I like Alito's alleged decision here.  I consider this a 10th Amendment issue.  Nothing in the Constitution addresses abortion.  The several States are then empowered to address the issue, or not, as is their prerogative.  With State lines being largely irrelevant due to air and car travel, one just needs access to a neighboring State which offers access to abortion in order to sate one's need for the service.

Leave it in the "Laboratories of Democracy."  It'll get ironed out over several generations.  Alito is correct to cite the variety of State level legislation on the issue, prohibiting it.  Though it's unlikely the counter-argument is supported by corresponding deliberate legislation which supports abortion.  A proper rebuttal to his argument would be to cite the absence of similar legislation, per time period covered of each State proscription, as a ratio.  I.E. from 1800 to 1860, 33% of States had laws prohibiting abortion while 67% had no such law, making the practice legal (obviously this is a made up statistic here).  I still must fundamentally side with the notion of that which is not expressly prohibited, MUST BE expressly tolerated.  Including abortion.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bogie on May 02, 2022, 11:53:19 PM
As someone who has to deal daily with clueless people who know that they are SO much smarter than all those horrible deplorables, I'm sort of hoping that they actually declare some sort of open war. With what I'm hearing from a LOT of POC, they're going to get their asses handed to them on several fronts.
 
Edited: i hz tiping skizz of orang.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 02, 2022, 11:55:49 PM
The babies did not kill themselves

Quote
    Not surprising. But still outrageous.

    This decision is a direct assault on the dignity, rights, & lives of women, not to mention decades of settled law. It will kill and subjugate women even as a vast majority of Americans think abortion should be legal. What an utter disgrace. https://t.co/TNo1IX3Tl4
    — Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) May 3, 2022
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2022/05/02/leftists-praise-completely-destroying-supreme-court-norms-praise-destructive-leak-as-heroic-n2606652
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 08:00:39 AM
Wow. This would be bad. To explain:

If this leaked alleged ruling is true, I would, given my own philosophical beliefs, consider the ruling itself good.

I would consider it bad for people in the short term, whether leaked or not, in the sense that if you thought the antifa and related violence last Summer was bad, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

I consider this bad for the country in that if this was leaked out of the SC, how do we again trust the integrity of the court? This is just like the deep state stuff that went on under Trump. Leaked information to the MSM and big tech resulting in attacks by the "unbiased" media against something the left doesn't like (notice these leaks never happen with stuff the left is in favor of?). Even though this is allegedly a February draft, it's interesting that it leaked just after a new liberal justice and her employees entered the SC. I actually don't believe a Justice, regardless of their politics, would do this. It's almost certainly a woke intern or similar.

There's also a chance that this is just like the Trump "dossier" that was leaked to the lamebrain Daily Beast. Somebody suckered lamebrain Politico in the same way with something fake. I would actually prefer this to the alternative of someone within the SC leaking a real document.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 08:02:26 AM
Some finger pointing at a clerk for Justice Sonia Sotomayor

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/big-if-true-people-are-pointing-fingers-at-this-supreme-court-justice-sonia-sotomayor-clerk-in-relation-to-scotus-leak/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 08:03:32 AM
Funny but sad we've come to this

‘So, women are a thing again?’: People have noticed that libs like Nancy Pelosi and Eric Swalwell are not using ‘birthing people’ while discussing Roe
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/03/so-women-are-a-thing-again-people-have-noticed-that-libs-like-nancy-pelosi-and-eric-swalwell-are-not-using-birthing-people-while-discussing-roe/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 08:11:51 AM
It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 08:16:39 AM
It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.

The Trump Dossier made it to all the big outlets after the Daily Beast leak as well.

On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison. Even though it often leans one way or another, the SC is supposed to be the one sacred and unbiased arm of the government that separates itself from administrations and congressional majorities and current opinion of citizens. Punishment for breaking that trust should be severe. The clerk mentioned in WLJ's post seems to have a history and likely should have never made it past any background checks.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Fly320s on May 03, 2022, 08:17:42 AM
It's on ABC Good Morning America, so either It's true or one of the biggest news broadcasters got duped.

I read that SCOTUS confirmed the leak.  It was just a rough draft, though, not a final decision.

Related: there are now fencing and crowd control devices installed around SCOTUS.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Fly320s on May 03, 2022, 08:26:56 AM
Wow. This would be bad.

Yes, very bad, but not for the reasons you said.

There will be protests and violence by the usual groups, but the long term effects of the decision could have far-reaching legal consequences.

We need to wait for the verdict and the legal reasonings to learn the "why," but my understanding of Roe v Wade is that the SCOTUS ruling was based on privacy, not strictly abortion.  If today's SCOTUS  changes a ruling about privacy, that may affect everyone, birthers and non-birthers alike.

Again, it is too soon to get worked up, but this could stir up a bunch of legal issues.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: HankB on May 03, 2022, 08:30:35 AM
Some finger pointing at a clerk for Justice Sonia Sotomayor

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/big-if-true-people-are-pointing-fingers-at-this-supreme-court-justice-sonia-sotomayor-clerk-in-relation-to-scotus-leak/
So maybe, just maybe, the "Wise Latina" was a little short of wisdom when it came to hiring staffers. I'm sure Biden's SCOTUS pick will see this and learn from it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 03, 2022, 08:33:00 AM
To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 08:35:03 AM
To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.

When I said I had some suspicions that's what I was thinking
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 08:43:40 AM
The Trump Dossier made it to all the big outlets after the Daily Beast leak as well.

On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison. Even though it often leans one way or another, the SC is supposed to be the one sacred and unbiased arm of the government that separates itself from administrations and congressional majorities and current opinion of citizens. Punishment for breaking that trust should be severe. The clerk mentioned in WLJ's post seems to have a history and likely should have never made it past any background checks.
I am listening to a Rekieta Law stream from last night.  The guy on with him said that being an SC Clerk is an automatic muti-hundred $K per year job and signing bonus afterward as the pool of people selected for that job is small.  He thinks Chief Justice Roberts (even though he is likely in the miniority) will try to nail them to a wall.  Even if they can't find charges to file, they will disbar them and their legal life is dead. 

Interesting to see where this goes.  Also interesting to see how this draft differs from the final draft.

Ben Shapiro had an opinion up that he thinks the draft is real.  He thinks the style of writing fits Alito. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 03, 2022, 08:54:24 AM
Yes, very bad, but not for the reasons you said.

There will be protests and violence by the usual groups, but the long term effects of the decision could have far-reaching legal consequences.

We need to wait for the verdict and the legal reasonings to learn the "why," but my understanding of Roe v Wade is that the SCOTUS ruling was based on privacy, not strictly abortion.  If today's SCOTUS  changes a ruling about privacy, that may affect everyone, birthers and non-birthers alike.

Again, it is too soon to get worked up, but this could stir up a bunch of legal issues.

Quote
Unable to show concrete reliance on Roe and Casey them- selves, the Solicitor General suggests that overruling those decisions would “threaten the Court's precedents holding. that the Due Process Clause protects other rights.” Brief for United States as Amicus Curiae 26 (citing Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U. 8. 644 (2015); Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U. S. 558 (2008); Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U. S. 479 (1965)). That is not correct for reasons we have already discussed. As even the Casey plurality recognized, “[abortion is a unique act” because it terminates “life or potential life.” 505 U.S, at 852; see also Roe, 410 U. 8., at 159 (abortion is “inherently different from marital intimacy,” “marriage,” or “procreation”). And to ensure that our decision is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.

They appear to be trying to get ahead of that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 08:58:28 AM
Do any of you think Amber Heard had anything to do with the leak?  This has effectively taken that trial off the news headlines.   =D :laugh:   Probably not.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 09:00:57 AM
On the other side, I wondered if someone might be trying to affect the election, but this opinion should have been issued by this summer so it would come out before the election anyway.  I can't see why this would be leaked except to 1) influence a Justice to change their vote, or 2) just someone foolish who talks too much and leaked an old draft. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 09:03:58 AM
I think it would have more advantageous for the dems for the leak to have occurred right before the election giving less time for emotions to subside
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 09:05:52 AM
Do any of you think Amber Heard had anything to do with the leak?  This has effectively taken that trial off the news headlines.   =D :laugh:   Probably not.

Even knocked Ukraine off the front page on BBCnews.com
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 09:06:47 AM
To be honest, given the emotions surrounding the subject, I'd not at all be surprised if this leak was at the behest, or at least with the blessing of, one of the liberals on the court.

To add to this, an important point to consider, IMO, is that this is really not about Roe v Wade and abortion, but any subject "X" that creates high emotions, and the integrity of the SC and its ability to operate in a trusted manner.

While it's very early, emotions are high, and the MSM needs hyperbolic stories, it's interesting to see that  secondary fallout from this is the news suddenly going from "Republicans steamrolling the 2022 elections" to a potential dem comeback, specifically because of abortion. Kinda makes you want to put on the tinfoil and think about all the potential players, in and out of the SC.

Edit: I see several posts mentioned elections as I was typing. :)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 09:08:42 AM
Oh, apropos of absolutely nothing, I see that insurrections are patriotic again.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on May 03, 2022, 09:13:29 AM
This could also be the Dems "October Surprise".  Even if not planned that way, it will still have an affect on the mid-terms, likely giving the Dems a boost.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 09:14:42 AM
I think it would have more advantageous for the dems for the leak to have occurred right before the election giving less time for emotions to subside
I am thinking that also.  For election effects, it would have been better to wait for the actual decision to come out.  May is pretty early for an election surprise.  All the primaries aren't even over.

The only thing I can imagine is if the final draft is more watered down and someone wanted to leak an earlier draft.  That doesn't make as much sense.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 09:21:47 AM
I am thinking that also.  For election effects, it would have been better to wait for the actual decision to come out.  May is pretty early for an election surprise.  All the primaries aren't even over.

I suppose an Occam's razor is that if the leaker is anything like the woke, Ivy League 20-somethings we always see interviewed for their "bright, young opinion", he or she likely wasn't thinking strategically.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 09:29:27 AM
This was posted an hour or two, if I got the times right, before the "leak" hit the news.

Quote
A message to Amazon staff said that the firm will pay up to $4,000 (£3,201) in travel expenses each year for treatments not available nearby.

Several other companies have announced plans that ensure staff have access to abortions.

Amazon will pay US staff travel expenses for abortions and other treatments
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 09:35:44 AM
Expect attempts on right leaning justices lives
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 03, 2022, 09:36:59 AM
Has a sitting Justice ever been removed from the bench?

If the leak is tied to a SCOTUS staffer, there could be several administrative layers between them and a Justice. Heads will roll, but it's unlikely a particular Justice will suffer any ill PR due to the separation. Unless, of course, someone could prove collusion.

If it's an intern, that's Justice-specific. I would expect any Justice in that situation to immediately and proactively lower the proverbial boom, and in the harshest way possible. Even if the Justice isn't actively complicit, not taking action implicates them in the scandal. It also evidences a lack of respect for SCOTUS sanctity and objective jurisprudence, an unfathomable attitude for a sitting Justice.

Brad
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 09:40:25 AM
I thought an SC Justice or any federal judge would have be removed via impeachment proceedings. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 03, 2022, 10:08:48 AM
Amit Jain, the intern for Sotomayor who's name is being bandied about as a potential leak source, appears to have some history of left wing-ism and a previous association with the reporter who broke the story. Interesting, yes, but still circumstantial, and then only barely. Anything else on background besides the stuff currently making social media rounds?

Brad
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 10:15:43 AM
Amit Jain, the intern for Sotomayor who's name is being bandied about as a potential leak source, appears to have some history of left wing-ism and a previous association with the reporter who broke the story. Interesting, yes, but still circumstantial, and then only barely. Anything else on background besides the stuff currently making social media rounds?

Brad

I'm not gonna call it on him at this point either, but even if innocent of this, his history should have been easily found in his background investigation and he should have never been given a job in the SC.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Nick1911 on May 03, 2022, 10:25:32 AM
Uggggh an abortion war, that's just what we need in 2022.

Maybe stirring up that old controversy will keep the public's mind off the fact that their standard of living is declining.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 03, 2022, 10:36:40 AM
I hope Roe v. Wade is struck down.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 10:38:22 AM
Unbiased MSM:

Quote
Ian Millhiser
@imillhiser
Seriously, shout out to whoever the hero was within the Supreme Court who said “*expletive deleted*ck it! Let’s burn this place down.”
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: 230RN on May 03, 2022, 10:55:18 AM
....
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 03, 2022, 10:55:51 AM
Uggggh an abortion war, that's just what we need in 2022.

Why not?  We've had almost everything else this year, and it's only May.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 10:59:51 AM
Even knocked Ukraine off the front page on BBCnews.com

<sarcasm>

I'm not saying Russians, but Russians did it.

</sarcasm>

Especially since they escalated their attack on Mariupol overnight.



Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 11:00:25 AM
That repetition by one Justice that no right is absolute always irked me.  While it is technically accurate (incarceration, execution, e.g.), it opens wide the door to limitless abrogation of all rights.  Any and all whose "common sense" says we should all become moon-worshipers can shout that phrase in support of their position.

Ben is going to call this ridiculous, but look at the full implications of "no right is absolute" as stated by a Supreme Court Justice.

You can't think "community standards" on this one.
At some point, you have think:  My rights may not be absolute, but a Supreme Court Judge should understand that no one (including themselves) should be deciding what limits should be placed on them.  That is what makes them 'rights' rather than a privilege.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 03, 2022, 11:38:52 AM
Has a sitting Justice ever been removed from the bench?

No.  Only 1 has had impeachment proceedings, but was not convicted and removed.  That was Samuel Chase in 1805.

Abe Fortas resigned from SCOTUS in 1969 under threat of impeachment.

William O Douglas had 2 impeachment attempts made (1953 and 1970) but none were successful.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 11:41:19 AM
Two things of note here
One the doc has been verified as authentic by Roberts but does NOT represents a decision by the SC or any final position of any member.
Two An investigation is being launched

Quote
    BREAKING: Chief Justice John Roberts has directed the marshal of the Supreme Court to launch an investigation into the source of the leaked draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, which Roberts verified as an authentic document pic.twitter.com/vcq4lTY7bk

    — John Kruzel (@johnkruzel) May 3, 2022

BREAKING: Chief Justice John Roberts directs marshal of the Supreme Court to launch investigation into SCOTUS leak of now-verified draft
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/03/breaking-chief-justice-john-roberts-directs-marshal-of-the-supreme-court-to-launch-investigation-into-scotus-leak-of-now-verified-draft/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: DittoHead on May 03, 2022, 11:58:25 AM
On further thought, if this is a real leak, I think an appropriate punishment should be life in prison.

I'm not sure there's a statute that clearly applies for even a slap on the wrist, let alone real prison time. This stuff isn't classified.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 12:28:34 PM
I'm not sure there's a statute that clearly applies for even a slap on the wrist, let alone real prison time. This stuff isn't classified.
I think you may be right from some other commentary I have heard.  They probably could get the person disbarred which would be a pretty serious hit for an SC law clerk. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 03, 2022, 12:34:55 PM
I think you may be right from some other commentary I have heard.  They probably could get the person disbarred which would be a pretty serious hit for an SC law clerk. 

I would imagine there is some ethics clause in their licensing which addresses confidentiality, personal conduct, and professional integrity. Even if there isn't, for-cause dismissal from a SCOTUS internship carries it's own stigma.

Brad
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on May 03, 2022, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from the SCOTUS public information statement:  "Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court's confidential deliberative work."
That would seem to imply there is, at a minimum, an internal rules process that the leaker broke.  Given that the Chief Justice has directed the Marshal of the Court to investigate, that would also imply the leaker will face consequences should they be found out.

US Code 18 U.S.C 641 might apply for criminal prosecution if it is stretched a bit.  It is typically taken to mean stealing or conveying government property to give to another outside agency or individual for monetary gain.  But the way the word "convey" is used in the statute, it does not firmly imply the conveyance must be for monetary gain.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: HankB on May 03, 2022, 01:31:44 PM
Stigma for dismissal?

You think a law clerk dismissed for leaking this memo would NOT be hired in an eyeblink by any member of "The Squad," Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, or any of a number of other extreme leftists? Especially if they could somehow "spin" the dismissal in a way to satisfy their own constituency to make a claim of women's rights, racism, or something else along the same lines? I mean, there are ALREADY some media types cheering this person on. (See the link Ben included in his post around 11 or 12  places up.)

Disbarment would be a speed bump in the career path and close a number of doors - but maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't put the person into a food service career. ESPECIALLY if the leaker isn't a straight white male.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: DittoHead on May 03, 2022, 01:37:46 PM
The only thing I can imagine is if the final draft is more watered down and someone wanted to leak an earlier draft.  That doesn't make as much sense.

My theory (that I have nothing to support) is that Roberts himself had it leaked in order to soften the blowback. He knows the votes are there and the reaction is going to be bad, no way around it. But this way, instead of having the singular flashpoint event of the final ruling being released, it's spread out. Now half the people are talking about the leak itself and who did it. It's also harder to protest something that hasn't actually happened yet so while there will be protests they won't be as bad. When the final ruling comes down and it's slightly watered down there will be protests again but people will have already had some time to accept it and be slightly less riotous. Less white hot rage heading right into the elections.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 01:37:59 PM
Quote from the SCOTUS public information statement:  "Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court's confidential deliberative work."
That would seem to imply there is, at a minimum, an internal rules process that the leaker broke.  Given that the Chief Justice has directed the Marshal of the Court to investigate, that would also imply the leaker will face consequences should they be found out.
Given some of the wording, do we think this opinion represents something that will make it to the final ruling?   I can't imagine why anyone would bother to leak it if is wasn't representative of the final ruling.  Can any of you think of any other good reason someone would do that? 

Thanks for answering ahead of time DittoHead.   =)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 03, 2022, 01:44:42 PM
Apparently this isn't the first time there have been leaks from the Supreme Court...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-leaks-are-rare-but-not-unprecedented
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 01:58:41 PM
If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.

I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 03, 2022, 02:22:39 PM
If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.

I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.

More likely, the abortion-friendly states will pull the usual theater of banning official travel to the non-murdery states, the NCAA will refuse to hold championship games in those states, etc. At least for a while. Or until AOC turns up in Florida again.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 03, 2022, 02:30:05 PM
Can't wait to read Disney's corporate statement on this one.... >:D
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 02:39:29 PM
Can't wait to read Disney's corporate statement on this one.... >:D

Mickey is getting an abortion

(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb042622dAPR20220425094556.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 03, 2022, 02:41:41 PM
If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.

I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.


That would meddle with interstate commerce.

And honestly, that WOULD start getting to the phase of Handmaid's Tale, with border inspections and arrests of pregnant women.

I think the way to control it from the most "legal" way possible without running afoul of interstate commerce issues or going full-on Gilead or Taliban, is to ban insurance in your State from offering coverage of abortion procedures, while simultaneously outlawing the practice in your State entirely. 

Honestly I'm kind of surprised that medical fee schedules weren't consulted as a form of ad-hoc legitimacy of a particular procedure in this case, especially since Alito in particular was interested in any form of cultural tradition of abortion as a right, or local/regional/state laws that expressed favor or disapproval of the practice.  Aside from abortion, which has a slew of procedure codes (which I'm sure MillCreek can cite), another touchy and controversial medical procedure is euthanasia or physician assisted suicide.  Illegal most places, and shares a similar trait with abortion in that it isn't expressly listed as an illegal act... it falls under the general umbrella of homicide by means of arguing against a person's own agency.  It's a polar opposite, where in abortion the concern is about autonomy of the mother over the fetus vs the rights of the fetus, while euthanasia is about the autonomy of the patient and fitness of mind to make such a decision.

If insurance covers one of those, and no one is prosecuted for the act, then it is arguably legal in that particular State.

Isn't it Oregon that legalized euthanasia a few years ago?  Oregon fee schedules should have a CPT code for that procedure, then.  Or I guess it's possible that insurers consider it distasteful or don't offer it on their fee schedule contract even if it is legal.  But let's say it isn't legal in MillCreek's home of Washington.  There should be no CPT code for euthanasia for a Cigna fee schedule in Washington then, picking one insurer at random for example.  But there would be such a euthanasia CPT code in Oregon.

And at the final analysis, at the federal level:  There's no law banning abortion at the federal level, no felony charges or sentencing guidelines, etc.  Medicare and Medicaid have abortion listed as legitimate procedure codes for a doctor to perform and receive compensation from the government (granted there are Hyde amendment exemptions for compensation, but no criminality for the procedure itself).
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 03, 2022, 02:59:49 PM
If this going to be the final decision from SCOTUS, I can see a whole lot of interstate travel rights cases in the future.

I.e. Oklahoma creates a law to ban citizens of Oklahoma from seeking an abortion from a state where it is legal or Oklahoma can fine a doctor in an abortion legal state for performing an abortion on a citizen of Oklahoma.
Are there any historical precedents for that kind of law?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 03, 2022, 03:04:07 PM
If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them.  I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 03:06:18 PM
If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them.  I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will.

Oregon already said something regarding both welcoming, and complaining about, Idaho women going to OR for abortions because of our new law here in ID (currently blocked by a court).
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 03, 2022, 03:17:31 PM
If SCOTUS finds there is no federal right to an abortion and leaves it up to the states, it will be interesting to see which states permit them and which forbid them.  I have already seen media that Oregon and Washington will permit, and I assume California will. 

The left coast, most of the northeastern states and IL, CO and probably a few others will probably go whole hog into abortion on demand up to (and likely for some time past) natural birth.  Most of fly-over country will ban it from the moment of conception, and some purple states will allow it up to some number of weeks or viability outside the womb. 

In the mean time expect a big push for a law prohibiting abortion restrictions to come out of DC.  We know Murky and Collins will vote for that.  Hard to say what Manchin, Tester and Sinema would do.  Moot point if the filibuster is retained for such matters, but I wouldn’t count on the Dems not nuking that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 03, 2022, 03:20:36 PM
The left coast, most of the northeastern states and IL, CO and probably a few others will probably go whole hog into abortion on demand up to (and likely for some time past) natural birth. 

Colorado's governor has been making noises about ensuring the legality of abortion in that state.

Re banning abortion restrictions at the Federal level:  pretty sure that wouldn't pass Constitutional muster.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 03, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
Murky and Collins have already written a bill. Chucky is trying to get it worked in with the one the house passed and get enough votes for it.

They knew this day was coming. They had over fifty years to do something.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 03:43:21 PM
Are there any historical precedents for that kind of law?

Loving vs Virgina

Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virgina and got married outside Virgina and Virgina had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Quote
The Lovings were charged under Section 20-58 of the Virginia Code, which prohibited interracial couples from being married out of state and then returning to Virginia, and Section 20-59, which classified miscegenation as a felony, punishable by a prison sentence of between one and five years.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 03, 2022, 03:48:04 PM
Loving vs Virginia

Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virginia and got married outside Virginia and Virginia had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Anyone pulls that out as a precedent in favor of outlawing abortion and prosecuting interstate travelers is in for a BAD time.

That one also falls afoul of the full faith and credit practice, and interstate license compact.  Aside from using Jim Crow laws as your defense of your actions.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 03:48:55 PM
I'll be curious how many people quit/boycott Amazon if the SCOTUS leek ends up being the final decision

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 03:51:44 PM
Anyone pulls that out as a precedent in favor of outlawing abortion and prosecuting interstate travelers is in for a BAD time.

That one also falls afoul of the full faith and credit practice, and interstate license compact.  Aside from using Jim Crow laws as your defense of your actions.

Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.

Mulitple news agencies have reported repeatedly today that 68% of Americans favor some sort of legal abortions. (find your own salt)

I know, fringe for some people is where the weaving starts.  [popcorn]
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 03, 2022, 04:05:51 PM
Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.
My initial reaction to your post was to press X to doubt.

But as I thought it through, I could see some states passing that kind of law knowing full well it will be shot down on appeal, but that way they can be seen as doing something.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 03, 2022, 04:07:14 PM
Neither political fringe has never really thought through full ramifications of their actions at times.

Mulitple news agencies have reported repeatedly today that 68% of Americans favor some sort of legal abortions. (find your own salt)

I know, fringe for some people is where the weaving starts.  [popcorn]

I believe that.  I think that if you asked a bunch of Americans "Do you think Abortion should be legal in cases of incest, and where the mom's health is in danger?"  or some version of that 68% of folks would say yes.

I don't talk to a lot of folks about this, but outside of the Pro-Life absolutists, most people I see IRL and do discuss it with aren't particularly against the non surgical versions of abortions.  Those are up to what, 8 or 9 weeks? I know some folks are against them, and I'm not starting that argument, I'm just saying I could buy the 68% number.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 04:09:29 PM
My initial reaction to your post was to press X to doubt.

But as I thought it through, I could see some states passing that kind of law knowing full well it will be shot down on appeal, but that way they can be seen as doing something.

Totes the goats.

I also ready know that if the leaked document matches the final decsion, you can add Iowa to the list of 100% ban on abortions and our Governor will run on that this fall on her reelection campaign. Same with any GOP state rep or senator incumbent/challenger.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 03, 2022, 04:21:11 PM
If I had to guess DeSantis won't run that.  He'll sit on the law he just passed and let the Dem run on killing all the kids all the time.  But Ron has surprised me before.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 04:25:15 PM
"Do you think Abortion should be legal in cases of incest, and where the mom's health is in danger?"  or some version of that 68% of folks would say yes.

I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 03, 2022, 04:35:51 PM
I'm willing to bet that if you add in "before "X" weeks, that combination is a large part of the 68%. I bet (hope, really) that the tik tok morons who get all the attention and who hold abortion parties and pop champagne after their "instead of birth control" abortions are a smaller number of the percentage.

Agreed.  I was thinking about how I would ask that question if I wanted to show majority support for legal abortion, which I suspect media polls do.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 03, 2022, 04:42:52 PM
One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.

What seems likely to happen, if some states take that approach to abortion, is that red-state women who think they might be pregnant, and might want to abort, would just keep quiet about it, and go to the nearest legal abortion clinic for a pregnancy test. Scratch that – they’ll get a free test from Planned Parenthood, or whatever local left-wing org is handing them out. If they test positive, they’ll also get a free ride to the aforementioned nearest legal abortion clinic, and maybe even a free abortion.

The point being, abortion won't be prosecuted, if no one knows there was a child there to begin with. 2-month pregnant girl goes to a neighboring state, and returns, and no one knows she was ever pregnant.

Predictions of police state tactics on behalf of the embryo-friendly states - why? Because Republicans have proven to be so adept at that sort of thing? Yeah, OK.


*Crossing state lines will become legal again!
 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 03, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
One might expect that if a particular form of child abuse was legal in half the states, the other states might well prosecute those who took their children across state lines* for the purpose.


Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV?  Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?

Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 04:54:10 PM
Should it be acceptable for California to arrest and prosecute people that go over to Nevada or Arizona to buy a gas generator for their RV?  Or gas powered lawn equipment, that has been made illegal to sell in California?

Beware empowering States to prosecute for behaviors outside their jurisdictions.

Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 05:03:02 PM
Or buying normal capacity magazines in a neighboring states, where as your home state only permits ownership of limited capacity magazines.
The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 03, 2022, 05:06:23 PM
The "68%" argument is the same as that used to say a majority support gun control also.

Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 05:13:29 PM
What about the other end of the argument?  We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth.  It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug.  I can see one or two states pass something like that.  It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state.  Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 05:14:55 PM
Apparently, you didn't see (find your own salt)
Wasn't meant as a criticism.  Just a comment since this is all hypothetical.   =) 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 05:16:10 PM
IMO, the most likely interstate court case will be groups like Planned Parenthood recruiting pregnant women in a ban state to get the abortions done in another state and ban states trying to stop it.  I am assuming Planned Parenthood will not close down their clinics in Texas.  Leftists lawyers will be looking for loopholes and that will trigger legislative reactions in ban states. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 03, 2022, 05:22:56 PM
Loving vs Virgina

Interracial marriage, Lovings were citizens of Virgina and got married outside Virgina and Virgina had laws on their books in regard to interracial marriage being illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia


I've met Philip Hirschkop a couple of times. Very interesting man, and still incredibly active. We've been trying to get him to speak at our County History Conference for a couple of years now.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 03, 2022, 05:25:25 PM
Ordinarily, I'd be annoyed that people take "this will happen" to mean, "I want this to happen." But, hey, you got it right this time!

There's a very specific reason I referred to child abuse, and not some other crime. I could have also used the example of taking one's wife to a state where it's legal to have her forcibly sterilized. These are situations where people could commit serious crimes against members of their own families, w/o consequences, by simply taking them to states where horrific things are legal. Not much comparison there, to buying magazines or fireworks, or whatever. Mala in se, etc.

Are we OK with having The Purge states, where anyone can go to commit egregious crimes? This is far from hypothetical. What does Texas do if someone takes a child across state lines to "transition" them, and brings them back (because it's child abuse there now)? What did the U.S. do about slaves crossing state lines to become free? See the fugitive slave laws, and the Dred Scott decision.

But, like I said, even if it's perfectly reasonable to prosecute people for taking their children out of state to kill them, that doesn't mean it can be enforced. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 03, 2022, 05:25:45 PM
No one's talking about one of the other possible side effects if this passes...

A huge increase in inter-state secession movements.

Northern Virginia is incredibly left leaning, much of the rest of the state is very conservative.

Southern California is Stalin's own heaven on earth; central and especially Northern California? Very conservative.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 05:42:39 PM
What about the other end of the argument?  We have already seen pro-abortion absolutists talk about killing unwanted babies after birth.  It has happened in some places and been swept under the rug.  I can see one or two states pass something like that.  It would get murky if an anti-abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth-baby in another state. Usually murder is jurisdictional so I don't see how that would work.

It would get murky if a PRO abortion state prosecuted someone for killing their post-birth baby in another state. I'm sure there are several states that would institute pro-abortion laws for some pre-birth term, but consider aborting a born baby murder.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Nick1911 on May 03, 2022, 06:25:50 PM
Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 03, 2022, 06:30:01 PM
Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?

https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 03, 2022, 06:46:29 PM
Without trying to step in too much controversy:  Is there any serious pro-abortion group or faction that considers killing an infant after a successful natural birth to be abortion, and advocates for that as a matter of policy?

To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 06:47:51 PM
https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/
Thanks for those links.  I wish it wasn't something that has come up, but unfortunately it has.

I would also note for posterity that the whole Ralph Northam "black face" scandal hit the news 2 or 3 days after that interview hit the news.  The fact that Northam was talking about post-birth abortion hit the national news, then suddenly this other information was released and ALL the national news media switched over to that story almost instantly.  The abortion scandal was buried.  It was almost as if someone wanted that abortion comment out of the news and were willing to throw Northam under the bus and embarrass the new Virginia Dem Majority to do it.   
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 06:57:08 PM
To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/

1.  When Obama was running for President the first time, there was a Chicago area hospital that was accused of doing that while Mrs. Obama was on their board of directors.  What I remember is if an abortion was unsuccessful and the baby was still alive after removal, they would sit it in a closet and come back later when it was no longer alive.  Don't remember much else.  It never got much traction in the news.  I think it was only made public because people at the Hospital complained.  It was only certain doctors doing it. 

2.  There a law someone proposed in one of the states that was supposed to not only allow late term abortions out to 9 months, but specifically prohibited law enforcement from even investigating the issue if there was a complaint. 
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=66291.msg1346368#msg1346368
It was Maryland.  It was worse than I thought.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 07:01:34 PM
I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no.  Can't compromise with that.  Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues.  It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about.  I hate to go down that rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 07:04:12 PM
Suddenly horse medicine is okay

Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 07:04:49 PM
Democrats Enraged They May Have To Drive A Few Hours To Commit Murder
https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-enraged-they-may-have-to-drive-a-few-hours-to-commit-murder

Quote
"A five-hour round trip just to be able to murder a baby? Does the oppression never end?" cried Senator Warren, surrounded by protesters. "No woman should ever have to fill up with gas in order to meet a hitman!"
----------------------------------------------------------
Democrats have vowed to fight tirelessly to ensure murder will remain as easy as possible. "It doesn't matter what it takes, even if it means an insurrection to overthrow the judiciary—whatever we have to do so kids can have their skulls crushed without too much hassle," said Senator Klobuchar.
:laugh: :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 03, 2022, 07:06:02 PM
To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.

I don't see the point of your question.  Do we wait until babies are being discarded like in ancient Sparta before taking action to ban such atrocities?  Advocacy is the first step; implementation is the next.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 07:06:15 PM
To which I would add: does this actually happen anywhere with some regularity in the United States?  I see that both of Angel's cites are more theoretical than reporting on actual happenings.  I have seen a number of conservative sites on Facebook cite the California bill: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/06/facebook-posts/no-california-bill-wouldnt-allow-mothers-kill-thei/

What about a day or a week before birth? I guess the points are that everyone has some cutoff from "zero" to "after birth". Individual state laws will certainly get interesting regarding the spectrum.

Jeremy at The Quartering actually made a couple of good points. In that before these sicko tik tok chicks that have contests to see who can have the most abortions, we had, "legal, safe and rare". While the abortion debate was certainly still contentious then as well, it was sort of working under the "don't ask, don't tell" tent. I think that a lot of pro-life people were working with "what I don't see..." because they weren't being smacked in the face by aborted babies. A lot of the pro life bills you see being passed by states now are a direct result of the, "loud and proud" aborters, IMO.

https://youtu.be/L1qrclBhB1g

And for some of the sickos he's referring to:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1521507103466164225
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 03, 2022, 07:07:11 PM
Suddenly horse medicine is okay

Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/

But ivermectin is still a no-no.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 03, 2022, 07:09:52 PM
Is this appropriate for this thread?
(https://i.imgur.com/WmvUt12.jpg?1)

Maybe this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/tEbPq5P.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 03, 2022, 07:11:34 PM
Suddenly horse medicine is okay

Motherboard suggests women wanting to induce abortions could take horse medicine
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/03/motherboard-suggests-women-wanting-to-induce-abortions-could-take-horse-medicine/

Another great twitchy clickbait headline, but misoprostol has been around for decades in human medicine. It has a lot of gyn uses and was common to treat ulcers caused by NSAIDS.  In recent years, it is probably best known as one of the medications used for a medical, as opposed to surgical, abortion.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 03, 2022, 07:24:05 PM
Another great twitchy clickbait headline, but misoprostol has been around for decades in human medicine.

What's the point? Ivermectin has been used in human medicine for decades as well. The MSM still calls it horse dewormer.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 03, 2022, 07:25:27 PM
An early read on which states will do what regarding abortion rights post-SCOTUS:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096062374/roe-v-wade-leak-opinion-abortion-supreme-court-states-rights-governor-document?utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3CeRQAISi1elOmdRs8RrR9Z88sZ9MGaV3QeELBko-bd5eHWIRQ9P0prHY
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 03, 2022, 07:33:00 PM
Have any of the legal talking heads weighed in yet on a review of the draft opinion and any holdings within that may apply to Second Amendment cases?  Bearing in mind that the draft and the final may be two different things.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: T.O.M. on May 03, 2022, 09:16:06 PM
Have any of the legal talking heads weighed in yet on a review of the draft opinion and any holdings within that may apply to Second Amendment cases?  Bearing in mind that the draft and the final may be two different things.

Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc.  The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.

Then, the crazies on the ends.  Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???)  Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy,  banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ.  No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war.  Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.

Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 09:17:58 PM
Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc.  The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.

Then, the crazies on the ends.  Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???)  Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy,  banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ.  No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war.  Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.

Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse

Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 03, 2022, 09:24:04 PM
And here I am......
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Andiron on May 03, 2022, 10:05:52 PM
Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc.  The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.

Then, the crazies on the ends.  Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???)  Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy,  banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ.  No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war.  Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.

Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse

The trick is getting them to fight to the death and livestream it..  And then gas the victor.  I don't want to live in either of those fuckatard's realities.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: French G. on May 03, 2022, 10:18:20 PM
Kind of makes you wonder do we flush the whole docket this year. Everything is tainted. I know they wouldn't but the liberal wing of the court needs to smash any future case when the inevitable court packing law gets to them. Two other branches can't do their jobs so instead try to lead the court by the nose.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 03, 2022, 10:40:21 PM
Source Of SCOTUS Leak Found To Be Swedish Supreme Court Janitor Hildur Clintonheim
https://babylonbee.com/news/source-of-scotus-leak-found-to-be-swedish-supreme-court-janitor-hildur-clintonheim
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 03, 2022, 11:08:09 PM
How interesting that the Democratic Party, who remind us every day that the Republican Party is out to destroy democracy, are so upset about abortion law being returned to the purview of the people, instead of nine unelected legal scholars. Nine men, by the way.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 03, 2022, 11:23:13 PM
How interesting that the Democratic Party, who remind us every day that the Republican Party is out to destroy democracy, are so upset about abortion law being returned to the purview of the people, instead of nine unelected legal scholars. Nine men, by the way.

Did you just assume their gender?  Can you even define “man”?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Nick1911 on May 03, 2022, 11:26:10 PM
https://slate.com/technology/2012/03/after-birth-abortion-the-pro-choice-case-for-infanticide.html

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/

Thank you for answering my inquiry, appreciated.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 03, 2022, 11:28:53 PM


And for some of the sickos he's referring to:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1521507103466164225

A lot of those clips had a Jonathan Swift "A Modest Proposal" vibe to them.  I wouldn't take them too seriously.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 04, 2022, 02:16:36 AM
Thanks for those links.  I wish it wasn't something that has come up, but unfortunately it has.

I would also note for posterity that the whole Ralph Northam "black face" scandal hit the news 2 or 3 days after that interview hit the news.  The fact that Northam was talking about post-birth abortion hit the national news, then suddenly this other information was released and ALL the national news media switched over to that story almost instantly.  The abortion scandal was buried.  It was almost as if someone wanted that abortion comment out of the news and were willing to throw Northam under the bus and embarrass the new Virginia Dem Majority to do it.

Same with Cuomo killing grand parents in nursing homes, and then boom, sex scandal and that's all they would talk about.

When you're about to be exposed for a big bad, reveal a little bad and use that to distract.  Standard information/psychological warfare tactic. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hutch on May 04, 2022, 07:28:10 AM
I'll be curious how many people quit/boycott Amazon if the SCOTUS leek ends up being the final decision

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61301911
Me.  Working the issue right now.  Gonna miss my Kindle Unlimited subscription.  I sincerely hope some other retailer can up their online game.  I shoulda done this long ago.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 07:36:15 AM
Rep. Pramila Jayapal says that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to overturn Roe vs Wade because it's "settled law."

Good to know that she believes that Plessy vs Ferguson shouldn't have been overturned, either, because it was also "settled law."

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 07:46:18 AM
And this is cute... Apparently Uncle Joe claims that Roe v Wade is aligned with all major religions...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-brutalized-over-incoherent-vile-claim-roe-line-all-basic-mainstream-religions


Yeah, he's catching a lot of flack for that. Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 04, 2022, 08:21:28 AM
Kinda hard to find, but Joe has had an interesting evolution on the subject.

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/bill-donohue/year-year-breakdown-joe-bidens-abortion-flip-flop
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 04, 2022, 08:21:33 AM
Quote
Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: lee n. field on May 04, 2022, 09:42:34 AM
And this is cute... Apparently Uncle Joe claims that Roe v Wade is aligned with all major religions...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-brutalized-over-incoherent-vile-claim-roe-line-all-basic-mainstream-religions


Yeah, he's catching a lot of flack for that. Maybe now the *expletive deleted*ing Catholic Church will actually excommunicate him?

RCC in America is mainstream America now, which means, thoroughly part of the system.  Outside of an occasional renegade priest or bishop, or ranty conservative publication, nobody will say a word.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: lee n. field on May 04, 2022, 09:49:22 AM
Sorry. Busy day at work, and I just can't motivate myself to read this. At the courthouse, the lib crowd are talking passing laws, women's rights, etc.  The conservatives are talking passing laws, children's rights, etc.

Then, the crazies on the ends.  Left nuts talking about this being the first shot of the coming civil war (how many times have we heard that???)  Right nuts talking about how this is a great first step on a path to restore Christian laws on the books, like outlawing sodomy,  banning birth control, and outlawing LGTBQIAWXYZ.

And I don't trust the "right-adjacent" theonomic types.  Not one bit.


Quote
No joke, I heard one crazy lib woman talk about going gun shopping this weekend to buy an AR-47 for the upcoming war.

Before or after she tries to make it to Canadia over the unguarded back roads?

Quote
  Not 10 minutes later, I hear a crazy far right Catholic guy talking about how science has gotten to the point where a single supermarket cell can be developed into a human, so birth control and masturbation need to be outlawed now.

Gotta live the crazies in a courthiuse

People seem to have a wildly overinflated idea of our actual technical capabilities right now.

These are people you work with?

Masturbation?   Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 04, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
Me.  Working the issue right now.  Gonna miss my Kindle Unlimited subscription.  I sincerely hope some other retailer can up their online game.  I shoulda done this long ago.

I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: lee n. field on May 04, 2022, 10:37:39 AM
I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.

Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 04, 2022, 10:45:45 AM
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: fifth_column on May 04, 2022, 11:14:00 AM
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 04, 2022, 11:23:31 AM
Does no one else actually remember the way things actually were before Roe v. Wade?

Looks like abortion was legal only in a few states.

From the WIKI page on Roe Vs. Wade

Quote
History of abortion laws in the United States
In 1821, Connecticut passed the first state statute banning abortion in the United States.[13] In 1868, abortion by itself was not legal before quickening in 27 out of all thirty-seven states. Altogether, 30 of the thirty-seven states and six of the ten U.S. territories had codified laws which restricted abortion[14] along with the Kingdom of Hawai'i where abortion had once been common.[15][16] Every state had abortion legislation by 1900.[13]

In the United States, abortion itself was sometimes considered a common law offense before specific statutes were made against it.[17] In all states throughout the 19th and early 20th century, pre-quickening abortions were always considered to be actions without a lawful purpose. This meant that if the mother died, the individual performing the abortion was guilty of murder. This aspect of common law regarded pre-quickening abortions as a type of inchoate felony.[18] Negative liberty rights from common law do not apply in situations caused by consensual or voluntary behavior, which allowed for abortions of fetuses conceived in a consensual manner to be common law offences.[19] The majority opinion for Roe v. Wade authored in Justice Harry Blackmun's name would later claim that the criminalization of abortion did not have "roots in the English common-law tradition".[20]


Rose Fosco, who posed as a woman seeking an abortion during sting operations for the Chicago Police Department. As an undercover officer she worked to break up illegal abortion rings.[21]
One purpose for banning abortion was to preserve the life of the fetus,[22] another was to protect the life of the mother, another was to create deterrence against future abortions,[23] and another was avoid injuring the mother's ability to have children. Judges did not always distinguish between which purpose was more important.[24] Rather than arresting the women having the abortions, legal officials were more likely to interrogate them to obtain evidence against the individual doing the abortions.[25] This law enforcement strategy was a response to juries which refused to convict women prosecuted for abortion in the 19th century.[26] In 1973, Justice Harry Blackmun's opinion stated that "the restrictive criminal abortion laws in effect in a majority of States today are of relatively recent vintage".[27]

By 1971, elective abortion on demand was effectively available in Alaska, California, Washington, D.C., Washington state, Hawaii, and New York.[28] Some women traveled to jurisdictions where it was legal, although not all could afford to.[29] In 1971, Shirley Wheeler was charged with manslaughter after Florida hospital staff reported her illegal abortion to the police. Wheeler was one of few women who were prosecuted by their states for abortion.[30] She received a sentence of two years probation and as an option under her probation, chose to move back into her parents' house in North Carolina.[25] The Playboy Foundation donated $3,500 to her defense fund and Playboy magazine denounced her prosecution.[31] The Boston Women's Abortion Coalition raised money and held a rally where attendees listened to speakers from the Women's National Abortion Action Coalition (WONAAC).[32] Her conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court of Florida.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 04, 2022, 11:25:35 AM
A quick check shows that the US median age is 38, so I'm gonna say no.

RvW was 1973.  To remember the way things were before you’d really need to be 60+ years old by now.  And 60 assumes you were paying attention to abortion issues as a pre-teen.  Not many under 70 are really going to fully aware of such issues pre-RvW.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: fifth_column on May 04, 2022, 11:57:28 AM
I found this (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a6964440/abortion-before-roe-v-wade/) article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."

I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.

To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 12:01:56 PM
I also wonder if states like Texas/Oklahoma will tell Amazon (and other companies with similar policies) to leave the state.
I don't see why they would.  Ask them to modify their policies?  Maybe.  Policies like that will cover medical issues other than abortion.   

I am sure there will be some effort to prevent recruiting for abortions in ban states, but I am not sure how that will play out.  Anti-abortion groups and Pro-Abortion groups are still there and still have some funding so they will still be pushing the boundaries at least in the short term.

I don't think hard core theocrats have that much power in the R party.  If all this happens as expected, it will be interesting to see how the abortion issue affects US politics going forward.  And/or if other social issues move to the front.  I guess there are people who like to stir up divisive issues so if this doesn't do it, something else will come up. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 12:11:01 PM
I found this (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a6964440/abortion-before-roe-v-wade/) article online. It has an account from two doctors that worked ERs prior to '73. One of them states in reference to women coming into the ER: "We thought a lot of these were spontaneous abortions — we didn’t realize all of them were induced. The only reason we know that now is that when abortion was legalized, these cases disappeared."

I think it would be best if there were no unwanted pregnancies, and that's where education and birth control can make the difference. I don't know if it's actually possible to achieve zero unwanted pregnancies. I'm enough of an idealist to want it, and enough of a realist to plan for the worst. I'm definitely against abortion as birth control, and "accidental" pregnancy shouldn't be sufficient grounds for abortion. I could see making it available only in cases where the mother's life is at stake, however I think then that there would be a lot of "conveniency abortions" being performed and many women's lives would be lost. Again, a world where women only get pregnant after deliberation and when fully prepared would be best, however I don't see that happening any time soon, or ever.

To say that I'm torn about the abortion issue is a massive understatement.
That article is pure propaganda.  They give no numbers/statistics, just a bunch of anecdotal horror stories that make you think millions of women were dying all over the country.  And it really ought to be compared to birth/pregnancy complications as a check. 

I heard some people talking about number yesterday.  I don't remember anything all that high.  And the number of abortion complications was not zero afterward.  I will have to see what I can find for links.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: lee n. field on May 04, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
I was pretty young, definitely too young to worry about getting anyone pregnant when R v W passed. What was it like?

A patchwork of different state laws.  A uterus equipped birthing person (set aside the irony for the moment) desiring an abortion might need to travel to a different state to get it done.  There were a couple girls in my HS class, that that was the rumor about.  Can't have a nice girl from a nice family coming up preggers.

Lots of "allowed with limitations", like not after 3 months.  And not always the places one would expect given the political landscape now.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: 230RN on May 04, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
T.O.M. called it.  The Left will be calling for packing the court over the summer.
...

Right. Possibly because of my personal isolation from the issue, I see that as the biggest problem with the alleged "decision."

"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well.

Power aggrandizes.

The Fix is in.

I'm even getting tired of saying that myself.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 01:19:13 PM
"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...

Sigh.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 04, 2022, 01:21:16 PM
For something that is not an enumerated right (like RKBA) I really don’t get why people get so worked up over States getting to decide if/how to regulate something.  I mean, I get it in that control freaks will control freak (and this goes for both sides - if I had to pick one extreme I’d go with abortion being illegal everywhere, but I’m quite happy with RvW simply being struck down), but for a substantial majority this shouldn’t be even a little controversial.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: 230RN on May 04, 2022, 01:29:46 PM
"
"They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

Yeah, because the Republicans would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PROMISE WITH A PINKY SWEAR do that...

Sigh.

Oh, come now.  You must agree that they've maneuvered themselves into an almost iron clad position with respect to having their cake and eating it, too.

If not, there's no point in discussing that further.  Have a Twinky.  Sometimes you overdo yourself, Terry said, without using all caps and without checking his A1C.

:rofl:

Take it to PMs, K Frame.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 04, 2022, 01:47:56 PM
I could see myself being able to compromise on the abortion issue a bit in a sane world, but seeing some of these radicals being willing to go right over the line to infanticide makes me say no.  Can't compromise with that.  Yes, they are just radicals, but they are the ones who keep pushing and demand more compromises just like other issues.  It honestly makes me wonder what they do or want that I don't know about.  I hate to go down that rabbit hole.

The only reasonable, humane compromise is the same one we make for self-defense. You can legally kill a fellow human in self-defense, but you had better be prepared to show that your actions were necessary, to prevent death or serious injury. The difference in the case of abortion is that it can be decided by professionals beforehand, instead of something that has to be adjudicated after the fact.

Yes, that means women would be told what they can do with their own bodies. The horror...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 01:48:30 PM
You're turning into quite the Howler Monkey of Doom lately... and I'm not exactly sure why.

""They're" pretty much in a position to do whatever they want --including changing voting and districting rules to be in "their" favor, locally, as well."

This statement falls apart when viewed with even a marginally critical eye. Hell, even when viewed with an eye with a pointy stick in it.

If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?

If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?

If (ditto ditto ditto), how the hell did the Dems comprehensively lose Virginia?

If (ditto ditto ditto), how did Republicans claw their way back to very close to a tie in the House of Representatives?

So, despite pretty comprehensive failures across the board the last year by the Democratic party, despite the growing unrest nation wide, despite poll after poll showing that the Dems are in serious trouble, it all comes down to one thing -- massive Democratic take over in November  -- House Democrats 435, House Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, Democratic Governors 50, Republican Governors 0, and so forth an so on.

OK.

I guess we're *expletive deleted*ed then.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on May 04, 2022, 02:14:00 PM
If "They" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why have we been hearing constant howls about how Uncle Joe's Glorious Agenda for a More Liberal America has been so totally trashed?

If "they" were truly the unstoppable juggernaut of liberalism you seem to think they are, why are the Democrats weeping bitter tears of defeat over the Senate Filibuster?

These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.
IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is.  They get a majority then get the big head and screw up.  There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control.  Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians.  A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 04, 2022, 03:45:51 PM
IMO, The democrat party is just as stupid as many here say the republican party is.  They get a majority then get the big head and screw up.  There was probably a way to do a good portion of what they wanted, but they refused to compromise even with their own party or worried about something they couldn't control.  Both parties contain a bunch of stupid politicians.  A few are smart people, but most are not (IMAO).

This should be engraved on a stone tablet somewhere as words of wisdom.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 04, 2022, 04:35:05 PM
If you're of the opinion that this is not just some lone clerk, but part of a far left strategy (personally, I think it's one or the other, but don't know which) then John Hayward has some interesting thoughts:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/04/john-hayward-takes-comprehensive-and-extremely-valuable-look-at-dems-big-mistake-in-going-all-in-on-pro-abort-thuggery/

I thought the below to be cogent. It's what dems don't get. People everywhere, including moderate dems, are sick of the far left loony protestors that the dems call out for all this stuff. They destroy their own message with the purple haired weirdos who physically attack people for an opposing view (plenty of videos of that stuff going around right now).

Quote
There's nothing about the post-Roe landscape that the majority of Americans finds particularly troubling. The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades. Dems needed to keep their kooks hidden, but instead they're putting on a circus. Big mistake.

The thuggery on display from Democrats right now is DEEPLY alienating to most Americans. They don't want to see imperious Dems shrieking about packing the Court and shredding the Constitution, or thugs menacing the families of Supreme Court justices.

It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 04:44:33 PM
These two items failed only because two Democrat senators did not agree with the means to attain them.  Either of these two senators could be coerced into changing their minds at any time.  It will take only one to change their mind for the Dems to attain their goals.
That's a mighty slim margin for Republicans to hang their hopes on.


OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!

Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...

Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?

Any reason to push the panic button?

Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?

Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?

Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.

OK.

And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!


 :angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 04, 2022, 04:45:29 PM
"The Left's screaming freakout will alienate far more voters than it persuades."

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Winner winner chicken dinner.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 04, 2022, 05:45:26 PM
Whatever side of this conversation you're on, you have to admit that this is hilarious:

Quote
Gavin Newsom
@GavinNewsom
If men could get pregnant, this wouldn’t even be a conversation.

This must be one of the fastest lefty talking point turnarounds ever. Just a few days ago you were a monster if you said men can't get pregnant. I wonder what is going to happen to that new "pregnant man" emoji Apple or whoever the *expletive deleted*ck just added to their software?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/04/transphobic-california-gov-gavin-newsom-suggests-that-men-cant-get-pregnant/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 04, 2022, 05:53:25 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/thedecafmarketer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ross.jpg?fit=680%2C511&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 04, 2022, 06:06:40 PM
This is normally how drafts are handled and discarded at the SC:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/04/the-white-house-wont-say-whether-it-condemns-or-welcomes-the-leak-of-the-roe-v-wade-draft/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on May 04, 2022, 06:07:20 PM

OMG! PANIC! HORRIBLE ALMOST IDEALIZATION OF DOOM! WE MIGHT BE SCREWED! MIGHT BE GAME OVER, MAN! MIGHT BE GAME OVER!

Ok, Hudson, calm the hell down...

Seen any movement by the Democrats to do that?

Any reason to push the panic button?

Any reason to think that either senator who was adamantly opposed to either measure has changed his/her position on either matter when the states that they represent are trending harder and harder Republican, making them vulnerable in coming elections?

Even if one or both were to have a come to Jeebus experience on the filibuster and give the Democrats what, 6 months of filibusterless leverage, think the Republicans, on retaking the Senate, which they appear poised to do in November, would let that stand?

Oh, I forgot, in November it will be House Democrats 435, Republicans 0, Senate Democrats 100, Senate Republicans 0, and so forth and so on because of the massive Democratic rewriting of blah blah blah blah whatever howler monkey of doom scenario came to someone in their fever dreams.

OK.

And level with me, why are you all panicking about this stuff when PUTIN COULD NUKE US BACK INTO THE STONE AGE TOMORROW AND INVADE ON FRIDAY???? HOLY HELL, MAN! HOLY HELL!


 :angel: (I know that's supposed to be an angel, but it looks more to me like a panic monkey with a pancake on its head...)

What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode?  I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary.  They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.

Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 07:42:19 PM
What in the heck gave you the idea I am in panic mode?  I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation about why the Republicans need to be wary.  They are indeed hanging their hopes on a very slim thread.

Incidentally, are you related to this guy by chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdbpmeUODME)
So far, all the things Democrats are doing that push voters back to the R side they are still doing and doubling down.  So far, I don't see Republicans taking it for granted, but we still have some months to go. 

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 07:45:19 PM
New Poll Shows Surprisingly Sizable Majority Of Unborn Babies Favor Overturning Roe
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-poll-shows-surprisingly-sizable-majority-of-fetuses-favor-overturning-roe

(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11207-1.jpg)

Quote
U.S.—A CNN poll has revealed a surprisingly sizable majority of unborn babies are in favor of overturning the infamous Roe v. Wade decision. The fetuses allegedly frown upon abortions for interfering with their ability to be alive.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 08:00:16 PM

It can be grey haired weirdoes as well. Elizabeth Warren is in rare form dementia-wise today.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/05/04/watch-elizabeth-warren-goes-full-stompy-foot-through-the-plants-after-screaming-at-people-about-abortion/
Note the tweet included near the middle where D-Swalwell dumps on Susan Sarandon who is criticizing Democrats.  That is something I didn't expect to see. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: T.O.M. on May 04, 2022, 08:03:50 PM
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 04, 2022, 08:16:15 PM
I've seen far left weirdos say the far right will ban contraception  (and interracial  marriage?!?) next, but I've not heard it from a righty.

That said I do not interact with many fringe Christians.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 08:19:01 PM
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Don't know about the 4th Amendment part.  I haven't read the draft opinion.

I have never heard of anyone talking about making contraception illegal aside from Democrats accusing Republicans.  The closest issues I can think of are 1) the abortion pill, and 2) not wanting to pay for free contraceptives. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 08:26:55 PM
I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade. 

https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias.  Has a lot of links.  Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part.  I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly.  We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.

https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site.  Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high. 
Quote
    1959: less than 300 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
    1964: 264 deaths (Source: Department of Health Education and Welfare)
    1964: 267 deaths (Source: Statistician Dr. Christopher Tietze)
    1965: just under 200 deaths (Source: Guttmacher Institute)
    1965: 193 deaths (Source: Planned Parenthood)
    1966: 189 deaths (Source: National Center for Health Statistics, reported by CDC)
    1972: 39 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)
    1973: 19 deaths (Source: Centers for Disease Control CDC)

I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly.  Still nothing to panic over.  I guess we will see what other information pops up.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 04, 2022, 08:30:17 PM
I was trying to find links on numbers of deaths from illegal abortions before Roe vs Wade. 

https://www.liveaction.org/news/women-died-illegal-abortion-roe/
Not sure who runs this site, but I am sure it has its bias.  Has a lot of links.  Seems to indicate that most illegal abortions were done by doctors and deaths happened but were pretty low for the most part.  I guess that assumes cause of death was recorded correctly.  We don't know how many illegal abortions were done so can't do much statistical analysis with that.

https://medium.com/the-pro-life-rose/fact-check-did-thousands-of-women-die-of-illegal-abortions-before-roe-vs-wade-73f3a38da62f
Same for this site.  Seems to show deaths were lower, but were never that high. 
I thought Steven Crowder said 1500 yesterday, but I may not be remembering correctly.  Still nothing to panic over.  I guess we will see what other information pops up.

What are the numbers today for non-clinic performed abortions? I doubt back room abortions have completely gone away
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 04, 2022, 09:25:22 PM
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?
Crowder did mention the privacy issue, but he didn't give a legal answer.  Just pretty much said it was another scare tactic over this issue.  I think he is right about that. It isn't as if the Federal Govt respects any right to privacy these days.  Even the courts generally give the Govt a lot of leeway even when their actions are explicitly illegal. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 04, 2022, 11:28:11 PM
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?

I think there are some religious conservatives (and maybe some secular conservatives) that don't realize how vanishingly few people, even in politically and socially conservative circles, share their particular views of certain issues. As an example, I've encountered people who seem to think re-establishing teacher-led prayer in public school classrooms is still high up on the conservative Republican agenda. Not because they're afraid it's true - they're in favor of it. I'm guessing your man there is one of those types.

The only people that would even want to do that are fundie Catholics, and an even smaller fringe of fundie Protestant/evangelicals. I've heard that anti-birth-control doctrine used to be a common teaching across most Christian denominations, but it certainly has not been for some time (in the U.S.). Even if U.S. Christians return to that position, it would be a huge leap to assume they'd want a legal ban.


Quote
I'm a bit concerned IF the leaked ruling is legit and ends up as the majority holding.  My concern is that the opinion seems to attack the 1963 Giddeon decision which created the "privacy" basis upon which the Roe ruling was based.  If they indicate that there is no Constitional right to privacy in one's own home, what impact will this have on the expectations of privacy with respect to 4th Amendment search and seizure.  Much of the law on the 4th Amendment is based upon a person's expectations of privacy from the State in their own home.  If SCOTUS holds that there is no "privacy" rights in COTUS, how might 4A be impacted?

Does it really seem reasonable to believe the 4th amendment, which has been with us for over two hundred years, is a dead letter, unless women can get abortions?  For most of that time, abortion was illegal under at least some states' laws. Doesn't it seem really bizarre to suggest that the Bill of Rights offers us no protection from intrusive law enforcement practices, unless it also protects a controversial medical procedure?

Pretty sure someone's trying to smuggle in some pro-abortion propaganda on you.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 05, 2022, 12:20:49 AM
I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.

I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on May 05, 2022, 12:48:02 AM
I don’t know any Protestant Christians that oppose birth control.

I mean, Monty Python had a point (couldn’t find both clips in a single clip).
https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
https://youtu.be/PDBjsFAyiwA

Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions.  I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some.  I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already.  (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 05, 2022, 08:00:44 AM
Hey, I just wanted to give props to all the members participating in this thread. It's seven pages mostly on abortion, and everyone has been polite and thoughtful in their debate of this contentious topic. I don't think we have ever gone anywhere near this long without such a thread being locked. Kudos to all of you!  =)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: lee n. field on May 05, 2022, 08:21:26 AM
Oh, and as an aside, I heard a lawyer at court today talking.  He's an extreme fundamentalist Christian.  He indicated that there is a right-wing push to seek to make contraceptives illegal.  Anyone know about this, or was he spouting his own extreme beliefs as if they were an actual party issue?

I have never heard of anything like this, in current times.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 05, 2022, 08:33:41 AM
There's some disagreement in the various protestant groups about birth control.

Old Order Amish forbid it, although that apparently is starting to break down on an individual basis. Hutterites also believe it to be a sin, but again, that's breaking down and they're OK with it if it's recommended by a medical doctor, apparently.

At least one branch of the Luthern Church has proclaimed birth control to be a sin.

We Methodists are pretty much "it's between you and God."

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 05, 2022, 09:16:56 AM
Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches.  It is not common any more.  I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times.  In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples.  The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity.  Some research indicates they were actually right.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 05, 2022, 09:33:14 AM
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 05, 2022, 09:44:06 AM
Opposition to birth control used to be common among protestant churches.  It is not common any more.  I have never heard of serious movement to ban birth control in modern times.  In the earlier 20th century, some of the anti-birth control laws were aimed at keeping unmarried people from buying it, not married couples.  The thought was that it would encourage promiscuity.  Some research indicates they were actually right.
That went along with blue laws and other stuff done to limit or outlaw things considered sinful.  I thought general support for that stuff in my state ended in the 1980's and a lot of the state wide limits were removed.  Some stuff still hangs around mostly related to limits on alcohol sales.  I have never heard of any serious support for bringing that stuff back. 

And I would point out that it was Democrats who enacted a lot of that.  Many of those people never stopped voting Democrat in local elections.  There have been a lot of generational shifts in the South. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 05, 2022, 09:51:23 AM
In recent years, the republicans have tried to get birth control OTC but the dem's keep fighting it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 05, 2022, 10:01:00 AM
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ

I was just getting ready to post that.  =D
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 05, 2022, 10:06:10 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_birth_control

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 05, 2022, 12:46:48 PM
This seems to be an appropriate add in at this point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ

That was the first of my YouTube links.  The second was the “protestant” response scene that followed.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 05, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
Some of us oppose one or two very specific means of birth control that amount to early abortions.  I don't know of any who oppose birth control per se, but if you turn over enough rocks you might find some.  I think the commandment to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it" has been fulfilled already.  (A real pandemic or a nuclear war or even just a global loss of interest in natural sex could make it relevant again.)

I meant birth control “per se”.  For general support for that, just look at the birth rate for Protestant/evangelical pastor’s families.  Pretty well reflects general birth rate trends for 1-3 kids.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 05, 2022, 12:49:44 PM
I will say that I believe the birth rate among married people in the USA (and the western world in general) is way too low.  We should be having enough kids to slowly grow our population without immigration.

And unmarried people should have zero kids.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 05, 2022, 12:57:27 PM
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 05, 2022, 12:59:51 PM
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.

Except for the pain of that transition, where the demographics are elderly-heavy.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 05, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
Not neccicarrily.  There could be a novel disease that targets the elderly and leaves the young and healthy alon...... Oh.  Nevermind.   >:D >:D
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 05, 2022, 01:05:12 PM
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.

Economically that would be terrible, at least short term.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 05, 2022, 02:30:46 PM
At least one branch of the Luthern Church has proclaimed birth control to be a sin.


Now that you mention, I do remember hearing that when I used to listen to the Missouri Synod radio station here in St. Louis. I think the reasoning is that children are gifts from God, and the natural result of the marriage relationship. Therefore, you should not try to prevent the gifts God might choose for you. Couples who used birth control were accused of just wanting to have more money for nice cars, etc. They had the gift of snark.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 05, 2022, 02:55:54 PM
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.

Mr. Thanos to the red courtesy phone
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 05, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
Everyone obviously wants to see more people that think like them, and less that think like enemies, but as a species we could probably shrink a bit and be quite fine.
Sounds like a good reason to do less at the federal level and let the individual states take care of more things.  I hear a country exists that used to use a Constitution that said something like that. 
 =D
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 05, 2022, 04:59:28 PM
And the whacko far left continues to "help" the left with their message:

"Hookup culture will be absolutely decimated".  ;/

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/women-on-tiktok-warn-that-hookup-culture-will-be-absolutely-decimated-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/

They still don't seem to understand that this veer into "abortions are birth control and are fun" is what has been turning the tide against them on the whole "abortion is a right" thing. They highlight a message that I think even many pro-abortion people find disgusting.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 05, 2022, 05:07:37 PM
And the whacko far left continues to "help" the left with their message:

"Hookup culture will be absolutely decimated".  ;/

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/women-on-tiktok-warn-that-hookup-culture-will-be-absolutely-decimated-if-roe-v-wade-is-overturned/

They still don't seem to understand that this veer into "abortions are birth control and are fun" is what has been turning the tide against them on the whole "abortion is a right" thing. They highlight a message that I think even many pro-abortion people find disgusting.

Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: French G. on May 05, 2022, 05:30:24 PM
Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks.

For every AOC there is a Marge Greene. Universe loves balance.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 05, 2022, 05:45:13 PM
For every AOC there is a Marge Greene. Universe loves balance.
I saw Tim Pool's show with Greene a couple months ago.  She sounds sane and not stupid.  I guess that is the polar opposite of AOC.   
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 05, 2022, 05:53:14 PM
Those people are the equivalent of the neckbeards in full battle rattle doing open carry with their ARs at Starbucks.

Too true.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 05, 2022, 06:17:58 PM
Chucky has decided to push forward with the dem bill to codify Roe without working with Collins. They won't get 50 votes now.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on May 05, 2022, 06:29:42 PM
Chucky has decided to push forward with the dem bill to codify Roe without working with Collins. They won't get 50 votes now.

Perhaps he wants it to fail so he can beat Republicans and a few Democrats over the head with the "War on Women" schtick.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 05, 2022, 06:55:12 PM
Everyone keeps claiming Republicans are waging a War on Women, but it was in fact Teddy Kennedy, a Democrat, who had the first confirmed kill in the War on Women...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 05, 2022, 07:21:13 PM
Moloch Warns Of Looming Child Sacrifice Supply Chain Issues
https://babylonbee.com/news/moloch-warns-of-looming-child-sacrifice-supply-chain-issues

(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11214-1.jpg)

Babylon Bee has been harsh on this issue.  Maybe no more than normal.   =)

This was on their Instagram. 
(https://i.imgur.com/pvj0B1b.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 05, 2022, 07:29:28 PM
Edit: Nevermind, clickbait.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 05, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Moloch Warns Of Looming Child Sacrifice Supply Chain Issues
https://babylonbee.com/news/moloch-warns-of-looming-child-sacrifice-supply-chain-issues

(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11214-1.jpg)

Babylon Bee has been harsh on this issue.  Maybe no more than normal.   =)


It's beautiful.  :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 05, 2022, 07:31:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4huK6vi.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 06, 2022, 09:20:17 AM
It is true that there will be illegal abortions, probably a lot.  And people will travel for abortions.  However, there should be a reduction in the number of abortions.  That is about the best we can hope for without a radical change in the culture of the USA.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 06, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Related crap that pops up on my YT page.

Crime show* clip popped up maybe a month or so ago and still don't know why I clicked on it but apparently a man is shot in the back of the head while in church. The investigators find he was wearing a vest to which the priest explains the man was wearing because of death threats from far right extremists for being an abortion doc. The priest describes what the man was doing as the "lord's work". I was like WUT?

So I guess abortion is doing the "Lord's work" according to Hollyweird

*CIS New York or something
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 06, 2022, 10:34:42 AM
That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates 

Ruth Sent Us says it didn’t post addresses of justices, just GPS coordinates near their homes, not AT them
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/ruth-sent-us-says-it-didnt-post-addresses-of-justices-just-gps-coordinates-near-their-homes-not-at-them/

Crickets in the MSM over it.

Jeryl Bier can’t help but be struck by MSM’s conspicuous lack of interest in lefties trying to get SCOTUS Justices killed
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/jeryl-bier-cant-help-but-be-struck-by-msms-conspicuous-lack-of-interest-in-lefties-trying-to-get-scotus-justices-killed/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 06, 2022, 10:38:02 AM
That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates 

They're claiming that they manually input coordinates that were not the homes of the justices, but just nearby, which I'm sure the neighbors appreciated.

I'm getting really pissed about this protesting in front of people's homes instead of their workplace, and there are damn conservatives doing this as well.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 06, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
They, Ruth Sent Us, have a website https://www.ruthsent.us/


Quote
Ruth Bader Ginsburg spent her entire life moving the needle towards justice for all. She believed, and we believe that:

    Women Deserve Trust

    Black Lives Matter

    Love Is Love

    No Human Is Illegal

Our 6-3 extremist Supreme Court routinely issues rulings that hurt women, racial minorities, LGBTQ+ and immigrant rights. We must rise up to force accountability using a diversity of tactics.

Join our private Facebook group (if you are still on evil Facebook).

We are also on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter.

And you may notice a map on their front page
Quote
ANNOUNCING: Walk-by Wednesday, May 11, 2022!

At the homes of the six extremist justices, three in Virginia and three in Maryland. If you'd like to join or lead a peaceful protest, let us know.

And right below that a link

Quote
Commit to rise up with us!
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 06, 2022, 10:46:46 AM
Man, these people sure tie themselves up in knots regarding terminology. It would be exhausting if I gave a crap.  :laugh:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/06/trans-journalist-assoc-shares-thread-on-appropriate-way-to-cover-roe-v-wade-since-people-who-are-not-women-do-get-abortions-and-hoo-boy/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 06, 2022, 12:17:24 PM
That's okay, it wasn't their actual addresses just the GPS coordinates 

Ruth Sent Us says it didn’t post addresses of justices, just GPS coordinates near their homes, not AT them
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/05/ruth-sent-us-says-it-didnt-post-addresses-of-justices-just-gps-coordinates-near-their-homes-not-at-them/

Crickets in the MSM over it.

Jeryl Bier can’t help but be struck by MSM’s conspicuous lack of interest in lefties trying to get SCOTUS Justices killed
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/jeryl-bier-cant-help-but-be-struck-by-msms-conspicuous-lack-of-interest-in-lefties-trying-to-get-scotus-justices-killed/

Be a damn shame if a few of them slipped on bars of soap while mostly peacefully protesting at those locations and times they so helpfully posted publicly.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 06, 2022, 12:44:11 PM
I wonder if the police or courts will do their jobs?

Protesting any judge to try to get them to change their vote is illegal and not protected by the 1st.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 06, 2022, 01:20:26 PM
I wonder if the police or courts will do their jobs?

Protesting any judge to try to get them to change their vote is illegal and not protected by the 1st.

#1, No they won't because the current administration is praising these peaceful protestors as patriots, you racist misogynist.

#2, Yes they will because CNN (aka the White House PR dept) says that far right extremists are actually doing all the violence.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/cnn-loudly-and-repeatedly-sounds-alarm-about-imminent-threat-of-far-right-violence-over-scotus-draft-opinion-video/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 06, 2022, 01:26:10 PM

#2, Yes they will because CNN (aka the White House PR dept) says that far right extremists are actually doing all the violence.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/06/cnn-loudly-and-repeatedly-sounds-alarm-about-imminent-threat-of-far-right-violence-over-scotus-draft-opinion-video/

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/1qjZV8pMLOkc2N70Pf/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 06, 2022, 02:08:39 PM
The tolerant left being tolerant:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-abortion-groups-target-churches-for-mothers-day-protests

Boulder, CO:
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Church-Graffiti-II.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 06, 2022, 04:21:06 PM
Quote
Kevin Sorbo
@ksorbs
·
23h
“If women can’t get abortions men should be forced to stay and take care of the child as well.”

Your terms are acceptable.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 06, 2022, 04:33:35 PM
Quote
men should be forced to stay and take care of the child as well.

How very right of them
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 07, 2022, 10:23:32 AM
Interesting CNN poll. If this leak was in fact orchestrated, it appears to have backfired (as some of us here predicted):

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/leaked-scotus-draft-decisions-impact-on-midterm-voter-attitude-wont-thrill-dems/

Though I'm certain the planned attack of Catholic churches tomorrow isn't helping the "winning hearts and minds" thing. Imagine what the left would say if even one Mosque was defaced in any way after 9/11. Oh, wait...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 07, 2022, 04:11:48 PM
More gaslighting

Quote
    No ,it’s not hysterical or alarmist ,They will traffic babies that many women can’t afford to keep .There is a huge money making market world wide for babies and behind that is organ trafficking the majority Supreme Court justices are officially the satanic force.

    — ✌🏼rosanna arquette (@RoArquette) May 7, 2022

Rosanna Arquette insists it’s not hysterical to assume SCOTUS conservatives are a ‘satanic force’ bent on trafficking baby parts
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/rosanna-arquette-insists-its-not-hysterical-to-assume-scotus-conservatives-are-a-satanic-force-bent-on-trafficking-baby-parts/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 07, 2022, 06:57:17 PM
I think I've only seen one person say blame the democrats. RBG warned them twenty plus years ago this was a bad ruling. I'm sure they have had a super majority in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 07, 2022, 07:21:09 PM
More gaslighting

Rosanna Arquette insists it’s not hysterical to assume SCOTUS conservatives are a ‘satanic force’ bent on trafficking baby parts
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/05/07/rosanna-arquette-insists-its-not-hysterical-to-assume-scotus-conservatives-are-a-satanic-force-bent-on-trafficking-baby-parts/
That is probably not the most insane thing she ever said.  Pretty clueless on this issue regardless.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Lennyjoe on May 07, 2022, 09:01:14 PM
So I’m wondering if we’re back to “my body my choice” now since Covid-19 vaccines were “even though it’s your body, no choice get vaccinated “…
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 07, 2022, 09:05:03 PM
So I’m wondering if we’re back to “my body my choice” now since Covid-19 vaccines were “even though it’s your body, no choice get vaccinated “…

We've always been at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 08, 2022, 12:02:46 AM
The scene in front of Chief Justice John Roberts’ house
https://twitter.com/DouglasKBlair/status/1523088909760024576
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 08, 2022, 11:43:47 AM
It appears that the protest in front of Kavanaugh's house was organized by his neighbor (how does a teacher afford that neighborhood?). I wonder what the other neighbors think of that?

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/08/terrorizing-his-family-justice-kavanaughs-neighbor-teacher-lacie-wooten-holway-organized-protest-outside-of-his-home/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 08, 2022, 11:52:04 AM
Mark my words, there will be at the very least an attempt on one or more SC justice's life and the MSM and 90+% of the dems will applaud it
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 08, 2022, 10:04:31 PM
Quote
    Justice Alito and his family have been moved to an undisclosed location. Let us pray for he and his family’s safety.
    — Kristan Hawkins (@KristanHawkins) May 8, 2022

Sure Enough, Protesters Have Shown Up Outside Homes of Supreme Court Justices, As Justice Alito Moved to Undisclosed Location
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2022/05/07/protesters-showing-up-at-homes-of-supreme-court-justices-n2606903
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 08, 2022, 10:12:03 PM
Let's see just how principled those five are.  I hope they stand strong.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 08, 2022, 11:11:59 PM
Mark my words, there will be at the very least an attempt on one or more SC justice's life and the MSM and 90+% of the dems will applaud it

Leak or no, once the final ruling is released that was always a likelihood.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 08, 2022, 11:44:49 PM
Leak or no, once the final ruling is released that was always a likelihood.
Maybe, but once released, it is a done deal.  Protesting them doesn't do any good.  In this case, the final ruling has not been released.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 08, 2022, 11:45:41 PM
Let's see just how principled those five are.  I hope they stand strong.
Let's hope they are smart enough to know that giving in won't make it go away.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 09, 2022, 12:02:42 AM
Sure Enough, Protesters Have Shown Up Outside Homes of Supreme Court Justices, As Justice Alito Moved to Undisclosed Location
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2022/05/07/protesters-showing-up-at-homes-of-supreme-court-justices-n2606903

Which is not an insurrection or anything.  ;/

Also, moar mostly peacefulness:
https://www.tampafp.com/pro-life-headquarters-firebombed-with-molotov-cocktails-sunday/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 09, 2022, 12:06:32 AM
Which is not an insurrection or anything.  ;/

Also, moar mostly peacefulness:
https://www.tampafp.com/pro-life-headquarters-firebombed-with-molotov-cocktails-sunday/

Peacefully firebombed
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 09, 2022, 08:36:13 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time

Mississippi says they are not focused on banning some methods of contraception at this time.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 09, 2022, 09:10:21 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time

Mississippi says they are not focused on banning some methods of contraception at this time.

I'm guessing there is both confusion and manipulation regarding the term "contraception". I doubt any state is going after "pre-activity" contraception. There certainly could be some states that consider a ban on the morning after pill, which is a valid debate point regarding contraception and the line between preventing pregnancy and terminating pregnancy.

Bill Maher of all people, has brought up how strict abortion laws in European countries are. A quick search showed me that many of those countries make the morning after pill difficult to obtain.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 09, 2022, 09:33:16 AM
^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 09, 2022, 09:43:23 AM
Quote
    Caroline Reilly (@ms_creilly), a reporter for @RewireNewsGroup, has called for more arson attacks against anti-abortion groups & suggested an escalation to deadly political violence. pic.twitter.com/OBoE4DJbX5

    — Andy Ngô 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) May 9, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/09/blue-check-pro-abort-reporter-deletes-account-after-being-dragged-mercilessly-over-tweet-calling-for-more-violence-against-pro-life/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2022, 09:43:49 AM
^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.


^^Did he read a checklist on how to lose support of moderates?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 09, 2022, 09:51:33 AM
^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.

I don't know I about IUDs, but I think there is some evidence that Plan B only prevents ovulation.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on May 09, 2022, 09:58:54 AM

^^Did he read a checklist on how to lose support of moderates?

Just like Mitch saying that if Roe falls abortion could be outlawed at the federal level.

They must have had a meeting and said hey looks like we are going clean up in the midterms we better get on the game to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 09, 2022, 10:03:32 AM
^^^The article noted that the Governor was asked about Plan B and IUDs as candidates for being banned and he declined to specifically answer.
Just to be clear for those like me that don't follow some details, the "Plan B" is also known as the morning after pill. 

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 09, 2022, 10:13:57 AM
I don't know I about IUDs, but I think there is some evidence that Plan B only prevents ovulation.

How an IUD works (https://gynraleigh.com/how-does-an-iud-work)

How Plan B works (https://planb.ca/en/how-plan-b-works/)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 09, 2022, 10:16:21 AM
The thing that gets sticky about birth control among hard-core anti-abortion crowds is that some are considered tantamount to abortion.  I’m not even talking Plan B which absolutely is an abortifacient - that’s the whole point of it.  Some birth control methods, like the copper IUD, don’t reliably prevent sperm from passing or an egg from being released by the ovary.  So conception can (and often does) occur, with the birth control device preventing implantation.  Which is essentially causing an abortion.

Not necessarily saying such birth control is worthy of banning but it is something that will come up for debate eventually in some states once Roe and Casey are officially out of the way.  To make birth control (of any type) illegal again SCOTUS would probably need to overturn Griswold too.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
I understand the biology of it, but convincing the majority of the middle of the road Americans that an IUD is on the same level as a third trimester abortion is not only a losing battle, but likely to loose a lot of support for *any* abortion restrictions.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 09, 2022, 10:29:47 AM
I understand the biology of it, but convincing the majority of the middle of the road Americans that an IUD is on the same level as a third trimester abortion is not only a losing battle, but likely to loose a lot of support for *any* abortion restrictions.

I don't have a strong understanding from the philosophical side, but when I did the quick lookup of Plan B and Europe, I read a few statements from religious groups, which seemed to be, "IUD OK", but "Plan B not OK".
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 09, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
I don't have a strong understanding from the philosophical side, but when I did the quick lookup of Plan B and Europe, I read a few statements from religious groups, which seemed to be, "IUD OK", but "Plan B not OK".

There are 2 basic types of IUD.  One is copper, the other is plastic and impregnated (heh) with birth control hormones. 

The latter is generally as acceptable to pro-lifers as regular  oral birth control.  Basically it allows for the same hormones to be used to prevent ovulation but at much lower dose because it’s more targeted. 

The former, the copper one, is what pro-lifers tend to object to because while it is somewhat effective at keeping sperm from finding the egg it’s not THAT good at that, and it has a secondary effect of preventing successful implantation of a fertilized egg.

Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over.  It’ll probably be a state by state thing.  But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 09, 2022, 11:20:20 AM
Plan B apparently does not kill human zygotes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action)

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: fifth_column on May 09, 2022, 11:47:18 AM
Pro-choice opinions expressed in a mostly peaceful way:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack (https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 09, 2022, 11:57:54 AM
deleted
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on May 09, 2022, 11:58:10 AM
Pro-choice opinions expressed in a mostly peaceful way:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack (https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-anti-abortion-group-molotov-cocktail-arson-attack)

Both sides have had their fair share of violent nutters.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 09, 2022, 12:03:41 PM
There are 2 basic types of IUD.  One is copper, the other is plastic and impregnated (heh) with birth control hormones. 

The latter is generally as acceptable to pro-lifers as regular  oral birth control.  Basically it allows for the same hormones to be used to prevent ovulation but at much lower dose because it’s more targeted. 

The former, the copper one, is what pro-lifers tend to object to because while it is somewhat effective at keeping sperm from finding the egg it’s not THAT good at that, and it has a secondary effect of preventing successful implantation of a fertilized egg.

Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over.  It’ll probably be a state by state thing.  But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.
In their defense, they weren't attacking birth control.  The news media was just being pushy and trying to make a story where one didn't exist.  The Gov who was questioned gave a non-answer that is being interpreted as meaning more.  Whether it does mean more we don't know. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: BobR on May 09, 2022, 12:07:32 PM
Like I said, Plan B apparently does not kill human zygotes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception#Mechanism_of_action)

Which is why the old standby of methotrexate is still used by some providers if less than 8 weeks gestation. It is also used in the case of ectopic pregnancy when trying to preserve the fallopian tube.

bob
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 09, 2022, 12:14:01 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mississippi-gov-tate-reeves-on-banning-birth-control-that-is-not-what-we-are-focused-on-at-this-time
Below are some quotes from this article about what the Governor said.  I don't think it means he wants to ban contraception the way it was being portrayed.  I think the news guy was trying to push him into saying that by asking hypothetical questions which he didn't want to answer.  IMO, he was right to avoid it.  There is no perfect answer than could never be twisted.  The Supreme Court opinion is hypothetical until the final ruling is released anyway.   

Quote
"That is not what we are focused on at this time," Reeves said. "We're focused on looking at, seeing what the court allows for, the bill that is before the court is a 15-week ban. We believe that the overturning of Roe is the correct decision by the court."
----------------
On NBC's "Meet the Press," anchor Chuck Todd also asked Reeves whether outlawing abortion in Mississippi would include birth control methods like IUDs, prompting Reeves to say he doesn't think "that it is going to apply to those that choose to use birth control."

"I believe that clearly a life begins at conception," Reeves added.
------------------------------
Later in the interview, Todd brought up the "life begins at conception" quote and asked Reeves whether he would sign legislation to ban contraception if it was brought before him to sign.

"Well, I don't think that's going to happen in Mississippi. I'm sure they'll have those conversations in other states," Reeves said.

"But you're not answering the question," Todd said.

"Well that's always the case. There's so many things we can talk about," Reeves said before highlighting some of the resources his administration is providing for pregnancy resource centers, including adoption resources.
He probably should rethink appearing on networks like CNN in the first place.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 09, 2022, 12:33:34 PM

Re: dogmush’s point, I’m not sure how banning a couple specific birth control methods will go over.  It’ll probably be a state by state thing.  But in general I’d agree that attacking birth control now is poor timing at best.

Honest question:

Is that what Republican politicians are actually doing, or are we just being influenced to talk about it as if it were?
edit:
I see now some above posts have spoken to that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2022, 12:46:51 PM
This is as close as I could find with a quick search: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article261207007.html

Not exactly a frothing Republican waiting on a hair trigger, but he at least gave a substantive answer.

I think you are probably correct in that the folks who make a living by the column inch have ran out of things to say regarding an opinion that isn't actually out yet, and have veered into hypotheticals, dragging the rest of the online discussion with them.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 09, 2022, 01:14:45 PM


I think you are probably correct in that the folks who make a living by the column inch have ran out of things to say regarding an opinion that isn't actually out yet, and have veered into hypotheticals, dragging the rest of the online discussion with them.

It's a deliberate attempt to frame GOP politicians. You may recall a reporter asking Romney about banning birth control in 2012, except there was no court case to pin it on. It was completely out of the blue, and I think it sustained its own news cycle at the time.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on May 09, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Or it's highly emotional people catastrophizing their bugaboos onto their enemies.  Or a little of both.

I'm sure democratic "strategists" exist that attempt to get soundbites on their enemies, but most of these blog authors are too stupid to figure that out.  They already legitimately believe the GOP wants to bring about the Handmaid's Tale (despite not having read it) and are screaming into the void.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 09, 2022, 01:59:22 PM
It's a deliberate attempt to frame GOP politicians. You may recall a reporter asking Romney about banning birth control in 2012, except there was no court case to pin it on. It was completely out of the blue, and I think it sustained its own news cycle at the time.
This.  Redirect the discussion to attack Republicans and frame them as the radicals.  Put them on the defensive.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 09, 2022, 08:18:33 PM
In case there was any doubt some of them are nuts

Quote
    MSNBC guest says she wants to make sweet love to the SCOTUS leaker, then “joyfully abort the baby." pic.twitter.com/NNSU7B6ahD

    — Real Mac Report (@RealMacReport) May 9, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/09/msnbc-comedian-says-shell-joyfully-abort-our-fetus-after-making-sweet-love-to-the-roe-v-wade-leaker/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 09, 2022, 09:59:18 PM
"...the baby."
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 11, 2022, 11:45:43 AM
Quote
Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
It's become pretty clear the leaks about internal Court deliberations (if not the draft opinion itself) are from the Thomas-Alito camp, and are designed to weaken the Chief Justice and intimidate any of the newer justices from joining him for fear of seeming weak or unprincipled.
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F

Oookay  :O
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 11, 2022, 12:15:47 PM
Billy seems like the type to blame the woman for getting beaten because she served dinner 5 minutes late.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 11, 2022, 01:24:08 PM
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F

Oookay  :O

I'm good with that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 11, 2022, 06:46:58 PM
Quote
    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    It's become pretty clear the leaks about internal Court deliberations (if not the draft opinion itself) are from the Thomas-Alito camp, and are designed to weaken the Chief Justice and intimidate any of the newer justices from joining him for fear of seeming weak or unprincipled.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F

Oookay  :O

Interesting. An article I read a couple of days ago was very convincing that the leak was one of Sotomayor's clerks.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 11, 2022, 07:43:36 PM
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1524379116828569600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1524379116828569600%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsarahd-313035%2F2022%2F05%2F11%2Fbill-kristol-thinks-its-pretty-clear-that-leaked-internal-scotus-info-came-from-the-thomas-alito-camp%2F

Oookay  :O


Interesting. An article I read a couple of days ago was very convincing that the leak was one of Sotomayor's clerks.
The story I heard was the clerk's spouse has ties to the outfit that broke the story.  Used to work with the reporter.  And the clerk has some history of being radically pro-abortion.  No proof just circumstantial looking at who had access to the draft opinion. 

It makes me wonder if the clerk's intent was not to leak it, but to just pass on information about the upcoming decision and the new outfit went with it.  No excuse.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 08:02:05 AM
Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:

Quote
I never watched A Handmaid's Tale, but the company that makes those costumes could end these demonstrations right now if they stop selling them in size XXL.

 :rofl:

About 90% of these protestors are women I wouldn't touch with someone else's ten foot pole. I think a lot of them protest in hopes of making people believe that pregnancy is something they would ever have to worry about.

Also, Amy Barrett knows nothing about being pregnant:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-barrett-mom-5-doesnt-know-full-term-pregnancy-handmaid-protester
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 08:18:22 AM
Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:

 :rofl:

About 90% of these protestors are women I wouldn't touch with someone else's ten foot pole. I think a lot of them protest in hopes of making people believe that pregnancy is something they would ever have to worry about.


I wasn't going there but.. yeah

It's not that most of them are naturally ugly but that most of them seem to have chosen to be ugly
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 08:20:52 AM
I wasn't going there but.. yeah

Well, I did,  :laugh: because I remember in college when all the super liberal protest chicks were almost all hotties.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 12, 2022, 09:18:12 AM
Well, I did,  :laugh: because I remember in college when all the super liberal protest chicks were almost all hotties.
I always figured those were just the ones the media took pictures of.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 12, 2022, 10:32:49 AM
If she is obese, with blue hair and tattoos you can be sure she is a left wing feminist loon.

Unfortunately, there are attractive women that are feminist leftists as well.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Doggy Daddy on May 12, 2022, 02:21:58 PM
Tangent, but too true comment I just saw:

Quote
I never watched A Handmaid's Tale, but the company that makes those costumes could end these demonstrations right now if they stop selling them in size XXL.]

Be thankful that they were wearing masks.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 12, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
Unbiased journalism:

Quote
NEW:
@shannon_liao
 and I reached out to over 20 major video game companies about whether they intend to speak up in favor of reproductive rights or provide monetary aid to employees. just a few said yes. most said nothing at all

Not, "What is you're position?" but, "Are you going to be in favor of the Washington Post's position, or are we going to have to run a smear and boycott campaign on you?"

I guess that the option of staying out of politics is no longer allowed.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/12/washington-posts-video-game-reporter-looks-into-gaming-companies-support-for-reproductive-rights/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 06:19:20 PM

I guess that the option of staying out of politics is no longer allowed.

With the left if you don't openly support and push full on leftist views you are racial far right and must be destroyed. There is no middle ground or neutrality
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 12, 2022, 08:03:47 PM
SCOTUS Justices Seek Protection From Mobs By Lighting The Rittenhouse Signal
https://babylonbee.com/news/scotus-justices-seek-protection-from-mobs-by-lighting-the-rittenhouse-signal

(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-11264-2.jpg)

Quote
According to eyewitnesses, the rage-filled pro-aborts outside the justices' houses saw the light in the sky and quickly dispersed, as they had learned to fear the night.

With the crisis averted, Justice Kavanaugh then invited Kyle into his house to play beer pong.
=D =D
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 12, 2022, 08:15:30 PM
Quote
With the crisis averted, Justice Kavanaugh then invited Kyle into his house to play beer pong.

Uh-oh. Kyle's still a minor.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 09:21:26 PM
Anyone remember the 70s SNL retroactive abortion skit?
Can't find it on YT but it's got to out there somewhere
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 12, 2022, 09:22:02 PM
Quote
    Can you imagine the media outrage if protestors were outside Justice Sotomayor’s house?
    — Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) May 11, 2022

yep
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 13, 2022, 02:02:31 PM
SCOTUS Justices Seek Protection From Mobs By Lighting The Rittenhouse Signal
https://babylonbee.com/news/scotus-justices-seek-protection-from-mobs-by-lighting-the-rittenhouse-signal


"Help me Obi-Wan Kyle, you're my only hope."
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 13, 2022, 04:34:22 PM
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/05/13/alito-on-scotus-leak-no-comment-mostly-n469175

Quote
After turning down a side street to chant outside Kavanaugh’s house, they walked a few blocks over to Chief Justice John Roberts’s, where they did more call-and-response, and argued over whether it would be more gender inclusive to use the term uterus or vagina.

On the one hand: imagine how much more effective these sickos would be, if they weren't such caricatures of themselves?

On the other: How feckless are Americans these days, that we've let such precious little clowns take over, and make us look like the crazy insurrectionists  at the same time?

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 14, 2022, 05:48:52 PM
With the left if you don't openly support and push full on leftist views you are racial far right and must be destroyed. There is no middle ground or neutrality

Case in point
Quote
    Business magazine Fast Company is pressuring companies to take a "survey" for a report on their abortion stance and vows to "disclose" which companies refuse to take it. https://t.co/t59V8VAPRF

    — Joseph A. Wulfsohn (@JosephWulfsohn) May 14, 2022
Quote
    In an email to one of the companies seen by Fox News, Fast Company says it is working on an "editorial package" about "how corporate silence on abortion impacts employees" and "what responsibility of businesses should be when it comes to abortion care and access."

    2/

    — Joseph A. Wulfsohn (@JosephWulfsohn) May 14, 2022

Fast Company vows to ‘disclose’ those companies that don’t take its ‘survey’ on their abortion stance
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/14/fast-company-vows-to-disclose-those-companies-that-dont-take-its-survey-on-their-abortion-stance/

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2022, 10:41:30 AM
It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 18, 2022, 02:32:49 PM
It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/

Translation: It doesn't count when it is our own goons causing the terror.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2022, 02:46:16 PM
Whatever side of the issue you are on, you have to appreciate this knockout punch during a congressional hearing where congressmen (both sides)  love to grandstand and attack with "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" without giving the witness a chance to defend themselves.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/left-him-stuttering-americans-united-for-life-ceo-gives-rep-jamie-raskin-just-enough-rope-to-hang-himself-and-other-pro-abort-dems/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 18, 2022, 02:47:58 PM
"Just enough rope to hang himself"

How apt.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 18, 2022, 02:48:13 PM
The ends justify the means for the left.  Always.  The rule of law means absolutely nothing for them.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 18, 2022, 03:46:57 PM
The ends justify the means for the left.  Always.  The rule of law means absolutely nothing for them.
Always pays to remember that.  However, I might amend it to say "...for the left and politicians."
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 18, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
It appears that DHS's philosophy is that since we expect the far left to violently riot when they don't get their way, it doesn't qualify as domestic terrorism.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/18/dhs-memo-reportedly-clarifies-that-pro-abort-threats-against-scotus-dont-necessarily-constitute-domestic-violent-extremism-or-illegal-activity/

About that

Quote
    DOOCY: "Are these threats from pro-abortion activists or anti-abortion activists?"

    Karine Jean-Pierre: "It seems like to us that it is very one-sided on what we call out as intimidation or as violence." pic.twitter.com/kEq2PI1fWT

    — Townhall.com (@townhallcom) May 18, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/18/karine-jean-pierre-says-it-seems-very-one-sided-who-is-calling-for-violence-against-the-supreme-court/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
"Full stop."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1527017894588170240

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/18/abortion-advocate-wont-make-a-distinction-between-a-baby-whos-one-hour-old-and-one-still-in-the-birth-canal/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 18, 2022, 06:30:07 PM
“As the president said, if your actions result in only saving one life, they’re worth taking. But I’m convinced we can affect the well-being of millions of americans and take thousands of people out of harm’s way if we act responsibly.”
- Joe Biden 2013
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 19, 2022, 10:20:56 AM
What difference is there from killing a late term fetus and a born child?

There is no meaningful difference.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 19, 2022, 11:06:13 AM
What difference is there from killing a late term fetus and a born child?

There is no meaningful difference.

One's easier to explain away.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 19, 2022, 03:04:17 PM
Apparently you can't live and love without abortion

Quote
    Kamala Harris says that overturning Roe v. Wade would be on an assault on the right "to live and love without interference from the government." pic.twitter.com/IoNdQYO38n

    — Townhall.com (@townhallcom) May 19, 2022
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/19/kamala-harris-overturning-roe-v-wade-would-be-a-direct-assault-on-the-fundamental-right-to-live-and-love-without-govt-interference-video/

Well now you know
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 09:53:34 AM
And to top that take
Get ready for the jihad
Quote
    They're not going to be satisfied with forced birth state by state. They're going to go for a national forced birth law. And then they're coming for everything else. The SCOTUS ending "right to privacy" puts it ALL ON THE TABLE: gay marriage, LGBTQ rights, anti-discrimination… https://t.co/bLJLKMfxkX

    — Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) May 20, 2022
Quote
    Y'all keep comforting yourselves, believing Alito and the other Christian nationalists on the SCOTUS won't come for your communities. Making abortion illegal will satisfy them, right? …Christian nationalists believe they are fighting a war for God. People in a jihad don't stop.

    — Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) May 20, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/literally-too-dumb-to-insult-joy-reid-jumps-the-shark-and-goes-off-the-tracks-in-crazy-bigoted-claim-about-national-forced-birth-law/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 20, 2022, 10:20:12 AM
So, we have a nation-wide prohibition on enslaving people (and a thousand lesser crimes). What, exactly, is so horrifying about a nation-wide ban on killing people in the womb?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 20, 2022, 10:34:45 AM
So, we have a nation-wide prohibition on enslaving people (and a thousand lesser crimes). What, exactly, is so horrifying about a nation-wide ban on killing people in the womb?
I'd note that the now nationwide ban on enslaving people was initially almost completely driven by crazy Christian abolitionists as well.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 10:37:13 AM
I'd note that the now nationwide ban on enslaving people was initially almost completely driven by crazy Christian abolitionists as well.

And they were for the most part republicans.

Ask any recent HS and/or college grad and many will tell you democrats.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 20, 2022, 10:45:26 AM
And they were for the most part republicans.
The early abolitionists significantly predate the republican party, but good point.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 20, 2022, 11:14:30 AM
The early abolitionists significantly predate the republican party, but good point.

The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on May 20, 2022, 11:14:35 AM
And they were for the most part republicans.

Ask any recent HS and/or college grad and many will tell you democrats.
I wonder who told them that?  Oh yeah, democrats. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 11:17:37 AM
I wonder who told them that?  Oh yeah, democrats.

I think for the most part they're leaving it out while training their students to automatically assume dem.
Also many will tell you the Ds and Rs switched sides at some point so that the Rs then are today's Ds and vice versa so it was actually the Ds who freed the slaves.
No wonder our kids are so confused now
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 20, 2022, 12:21:56 PM
The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.

My understanding is, they were a radical fringe at the time, so they would have only been a small percentage of the early Republicans. Most Republicans would have been anti-slavery, but not abolitionist.

If I correctly recall, the Garrisonian wing of the abolitionist movement wouldn't involve themselves in party politics. To do so would legitimize the American political system, which was tainted by slavery.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 03:26:01 PM
Back on target

AOC thought we needed another reason to despise her
 
AOC claims that the notion that abortion is ‘harming a life’ is just something toxic ‘fundamentalist Christians’ made up [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/05/20/aoc-claims-that-the-notion-that-abortion-is-harming-a-life-is-just-something-toxic-fundamentalist-christians-made-up-video/

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 04:00:57 PM
Quote
    BREAKING: San Francisco @ArchCordileone announces that Speaker Nancy Pelosi is barred from receiving Holy Communion due to her public support of abortion.https://t.co/ohwloPzOBE

    — Adam Shaw (C) (@AdamShawNY) May 20, 2022

Quote
    .@ArchCordileone tells Pelosi she is not to present herself for communion "until such time as you publically repudiate your advocacy for the legitimacy of abortion and confess and receive absolution of this grave sin in the sacrament of Penance." https://t.co/ohwloPzOBE

    — Adam Shaw (C) (@AdamShawNY) May 20, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/

Waiting on Pelosi's response  [popcorn]

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 20, 2022, 04:50:17 PM
The early abolitionists were what formed the Republican Party.

And they were racist AF about it still.  Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.

Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 20, 2022, 05:24:01 PM
And they were racist AF about it still.  Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.

Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).

I think you might want to check your sources on this post. Off-shoring the freedmen was certainly on the table in those days, but was it really the favored solution of "most" abolitionists?

Also, wouldn't ending slavery mean the South gets more representation? They'd get to count the other 2/5 of the population. (Some of the freedmen might go north, but still).

Finally, was slave labor really a threat to Northern manufacturing? The North seems to have been doing just fine on that score. Or do you refer to mechanized farm implements? I thought that was largely a post-war development. Tractors came along decades later, right?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on May 20, 2022, 05:44:30 PM
https://youtu.be/hTLHxpUQ_B8
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on May 20, 2022, 06:09:11 PM

Also, wouldn't ending slavery mean the South gets more representation? They'd get to count the other 2/5 of the population. (Some of the freedmen might go north, but still).


3/5 Compromise dictated the number of allotted Representatives that slave-owning States would get, because House Delegates and Electoral College count were a function of population.  Your comment here is rather tone-deaf and I don't think you thought it through completely.

Slaves could not vote in the South, so the representational "weight" of the slaves was a State-level communal asset enjoyed by the voting populace as a function of having more votes in the House of Representatives and Electoral College.

Once slaves were freed and able to vote, the representational weight of the Southern States as a function of House Delegates and Electoral College count did indeed increase... but the votes of the land-owners and former slave-owners were cancelled out by the enormous increase in former slaves that could now vote and may not vote in the same manner as the former slave-owner.  Which was the whole reason for the Jim Crow laws and voter intimidation/suppression actions of certain groups.

Quote

I think you might want to check your sources on this post. Off-shoring the freedmen was certainly on the table in those days, but was it really the favored solution of "most" abolitionists?


I'm content to be challenged on that; it's been awhile since I've read anything about the Civil War and Abolitionist movement.  My stance is based on content I encountered and could be weighted by anecdotal experience rather than comprehensive analysis.  Then again, the same could be same for your rebuttal.

Quote
Finally, was slave labor really a threat to Northern manufacturing? The North seems to have been doing just fine on that score. Or do you refer to mechanized farm implements? I thought that was largely a post-war development. Tractors came along decades later, right?

The first "combine" was the McCormick Reaper, invented in the 1830's. 

https://www.britannica.com/video/226769/why-was-the-McCormick-Reaper-so-important

Quote
When grain was harvested by hand, a huge number of laborers were required. A farmer who didn’t have enough people to complete the harvest had to either accept crop loss or pay exorbitant wages to hire peak-season workers. The McCormick reaper offered hope to farmers that the yield of their fields might no longer be limited by the number of available farmhands. Over the next few decades, news of the invention spread to every part of the United States—and even across the pond to England and France. By 1856 McCormick was selling more than 4,000 mechanical reapers to farmers each year.

1849 saw the introduction of the first commercial chemical fertilizers.  John Deere and others started offering interchangeable blade plows around this time, and the 1860's saw the introduction of gang plows with multiple bits able to produce multiple furrows. 

Lots of this tech depended upon animals to make use of, but they were absolutely labor savers and cut dependence on either hired hands or slaves.  And predominantly manufactured and sold by Northern industrial centers.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 20, 2022, 07:32:23 PM
3/5 Compromise dictated the number of allotted Representatives that slave-owning States would get, because House Delegates and Electoral College count were a function of population.  Your comment here is rather tone-deaf and I don't think you thought it through completely.

Slaves could not vote in the South, so the representational "weight" of the slaves was a State-level communal asset enjoyed by the voting populace as a function of having more votes in the House of Representatives and Electoral College.

Once slaves were freed and able to vote, the representational weight of the Southern States as a function of House Delegates and Electoral College count did indeed increase... but the votes of the land-owners and former slave-owners were cancelled out by the enormous increase in former slaves that could now vote and may not vote in the same manner as the former slave-owner.  Which was the whole reason for the Jim Crow laws and voter intimidation/suppression actions of certain groups.

Not sure what you mean by "tone-deaf."

When you brought up the 3/5 clause, I guess you were talking about the added advantage the slave-owners got, from having extra representation. Kinda obvious now that I think about it, but for some reason I thought you meant they wanted to end slavery so the 3/5 thing would no longer be a factor. Also, I was assuming the freedmen would not get to vote (or not much). Which is pretty much what happened.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 20, 2022, 08:27:26 PM
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/

Waiting on Pelosi's response  [popcorn]



Well, she's a DEVOUT Catholic, don't you know, just like our Beloved President, who thinks only of his Christian duty as a light that guides him from morning until night...

But obviously that shaman, yes SHAMAN! is nothing but a racist fascist who knows nothing about God's love.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 20, 2022, 09:38:03 PM
Letting your religion guide you in your politickin' - it's so beautiful and wholesome and spiritual. If you're a Leftist.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 21, 2022, 04:27:51 AM
Not sure what to make of this:

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: 230RN on May 21, 2022, 05:21:59 AM

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/

Maybe she can find a defrocked or renegade priest to administer it in a back room somewhere.

I'm not signing this one so G-d won't know who posted it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 21, 2022, 07:33:15 AM
Not sure what to make of this:

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa

At one the clinics around here, students from a nearby "seminary" have been known to escort women to and from the parking lot.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 21, 2022, 09:00:19 AM
Well remember, religious views should ONLY be a litmus test when the left is judging the right.

The other way around? Well that's just an incredibly unconstitutional stance to take.

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/350930-feinstein-durbin-dangerously-close-to-pushing-religious-test-on-judge/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 21, 2022, 09:29:28 AM
Meanwhile the left keeps the old traditions of stoning and burning heretics alive for anyone who dares question their religion
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 21, 2022, 11:12:17 AM
Not sure what to make of this:

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-religion-alabama-2efb7c0ca49d6d7260773aad5ee956fa

The ELCA has come out in support of abortion.  There are idiots willing to twist scripture in many directions.

They try to claim they’re following god’s call to be compassionate.  How helping a woman murder her child is compassionate is beyond me.  If she’s so poor she’s worried about being able to feed the kid, compassion would be helping them find the resources (welfare, job training for her or baby-daddy, etc) to be able to afford to care for the child.  If she’s in a domestic violence situation compassion would be helping her escape that domestic violence, not putting her right back into it.  If she was a rape victim (and let’s also be clear here that rape accounts for at absolute most 2% of abortions, and probably a lot less than that) compassion would be helping her through the process of reporting and prosecuting the rape and healing from the trauma (mental as well as physical) of the violence of the rape.

And in all cases compassion for the child would entail informing the woman of alternatives to abortion, whether that meant helping her find the resources to raise it herself or give it up for adoption.

And before anyone trots out the “necessary to save the life of the mother” there is no such thing as abortion being necessary to save the life of mother.  There are medical treatments that are known to result in fetal death that are necessary to save the mother.  But the death of the child is an unfortunate side effect of saving the mother.  Yes, there are cases where a pregnancy must be ended to save the mother but in those cases deliberately killing the child is not required.  Premature delivery may required, and it’s possible the child could die as a result, but outright killing them is unnecessary to the goal of saving the mother.

Someone will probably say “Well, what about ectopic pregnancy?  You want to make the mom bleed to death or die of infection rather than save her life by aborting the pregnancy!!”  An ectopic pregnancy (defined as any time a zygote attempts to implant outside the uterus, most commonly but not exclusively in the Fallopian tube) is not viable (like maybe 1 in 100,000 being able to carry to viability is extremely generous odds).  If tubal it’s categorically impossible to carry to anything close to viability, let alone full term.  So the baby is not going survive no matter what anyone does.  So treating the woman to save her life and future fertility is the goal.  That is not “abortion”.  Even though fetal death is a necessary outcome of the treatment in that case, it is not the express goal.  Even the most hard-core religious pro-lifers I know don’t consider treating an ectopic pregnancy as an abortion.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on May 21, 2022, 11:38:43 AM
^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion.  If diagnosed early enough, we use methotrexate and this preserves future fertility without damaging the Fallopian tube.  If diagnosed later, surgery is the usual option.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on May 21, 2022, 11:42:57 AM
^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion.  If diagnosed early enough, we use methotrexate and this preserves future fertility without damaging the Fallopian tube.  If diagnosed later, surgery is the usual option.

It’s mostly far left pro-abortion (not just “choice”) activists that trot that out to try an make pro-lifers look ridiculous to those on the fence.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 21, 2022, 12:05:05 PM
^^^Up until this very moment, I had no idea that anyone considered managing an ectopic pregnancy to be an abortion.
I hadn’t either. I guess there are extremists on every side. I wonder if the people who would consider treating an ectopic pregnancy to be abortion make up a smaller or larger percent of the anti-abortion camp than the percentage of the pro-abortion camp who believe late-term or immediate post-birth abortions should be legal.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 21, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
In other news, Pelosi's archbishop has formally notified her that she is not to present herself for Holy Communion and, if she does so anyway, the officiant is not to administer Communion to her.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san-francisco-archbishop-pelosi-communion-abortion-support

So much for her claims that she is a "devout, practicing Catholic" and that her pro-abortion stance is in keeping with Roman Catholic teaching and theology.

{Edit} Oops. 230RN beat me to it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 21, 2022, 05:10:08 PM
You're behind the times on that one, Hawk...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 21, 2022, 05:20:31 PM
3rd post  :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on May 21, 2022, 05:36:06 PM
And they were racist AF about it still.  Most of them wanted to ship the poor benighted negroes across the Pond to Liberia; nevermind they weren't born there, and more than likely even their grandparents weren't born there.

Northern anti-slavery was about the 3/5 compromise in representation, along with profits from industrialization and replacing the low-tech meat machine slaves that presented no profit for Northern industrial concerns, with modern 19th century machinery to reduce labor (that was produced in Northern States).

While at the same time the location with the largest population of slaves per capita was Manhattan.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on May 22, 2022, 01:18:43 AM
The most pertinent things I take away from the slavery comparison are that just because religious extremists are the first to notice a particular moral crisis, doesn’t automatically make it less important or the violations less heinous. Secondly, that it doesn’t require that you be religious at all to abhor either slavery or abortion.  Finally, just as there were plenty of churchgoing slave owners there are plenty of pro-abortion people who are religious. Having a religious tradition doesn’t always help you to see injustice, especially if the position morality requires is unpopular or inconvenient.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on May 23, 2022, 11:07:38 AM
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/05/20/san-fran-archbishop-cordileone-bars-nancy-pelosi-from-receiving-holy-communion-over-her-very-public-support-of-abortion/

The San Francisco Examiner editorial board is "demanding" that the Pope remove Archbishop Cordileone:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/sf-examiner-editorial-board-demands-pope-remove-archbishop-who-barred-pelosi-communion-abortion

Even by San Francisco standards, that is some arrogant presumption (dare I say "chutzpah"?)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 23, 2022, 11:21:09 AM
The San Francisco Examiner editorial board is "demanding" that the Pope remove Archbishop Cordileone:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/sf-examiner-editorial-board-demands-pope-remove-archbishop-who-barred-pelosi-communion-abortion

Even by San Francisco standards, that is some arrogant presumption (dare I say "chutzpah"?)

These editorial boards all think they are "make or break" Kingmakers. It's some kind of arrogance they all have going on.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: K Frame on May 23, 2022, 11:42:55 AM
Are we surprised?

at all?

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on May 24, 2022, 05:33:35 PM
Because of Amy Coney Barrett, one day a kid might end up reading a book about her because his mother couldn't abort him.



https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/24/critic-bets-one-day-a-kid-will-read-amy-coney-barrett-biography-without-realizing-they-exist-because-she-took-away-their-mothers-choice/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on May 24, 2022, 10:57:30 PM
A few years ago, it came out that a local minister's wife was working at an abortion clinic.  The woman and her husband did not see any issue with it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on May 26, 2022, 03:07:54 PM
 :rofl:

Nancy Pelosi Draws Up Articles Of Impeachment Against The Pope
https://babylonbee.com/news/nancy-pelosi-draws-up-articles-of-impeachment-against-the-pope
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 05:07:28 PM
The last guy set himself on fire you coward

Abortion and climate activist scales the barricades around the Supreme Court, chains himself to fence
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/06/abortion-and-climate-activist-scales-the-barricades-around-the-supreme-court-chains-himself-to-fence/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 06, 2022, 09:11:05 PM
Things are getting sporty in Joel Osteen's church:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/abortion-activists-interrupt-joel-osteen-lakewood-church

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/06/720/405/osteen-protest.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)

Not sure what the green "hands" are about.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 06, 2022, 09:30:36 PM

Not sure what the green "hands" are about.

From the story I posted above

Quote
He explains that the green bandana is inspired by a pro-choice movement in Latin America that uses the same. pic.twitter.com/gzAxZFvxAX

— Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) June 6, 2022

I guess green is now pro-"choice"?

Now I'm getting Soylent Green vibes. It's babies!  [barf]
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 07, 2022, 12:54:34 PM
They left their underwear on?  Pathetic.  A real activist would have taken it all off.   ;/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 09, 2022, 10:38:47 AM
Took her to the pavement

Biden protester rushes motorcade, gets tackled by Secret Service agent in LA
The protester appeared to be advocating for abortion rights
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-protester-tackled-secret-service
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on June 09, 2022, 10:58:36 AM
The abortion ban is going to kill us.

Oh the irony.

If it goes back to the states, she might be able to abort her kid up to year 26.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 11, 2022, 09:59:50 PM
Quote
    The group “Shut Down DC” plans to “blockade the streets around the Supreme Court” on Monday, according to its website, as part of a protest that aims to “shut down” the Supreme Court as it prepares to hand down a ruling that could overturn Roe v. Wade. https://t.co/CRuZThYPnd

    — The New York Sun (@NewYorkSun) June 11, 2022
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/06/11/left-wing-activist-organizations-plans-for-monday-in-dc-sounds-insurrection-y/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 12, 2022, 02:54:11 PM
It's NOT Incitement When THEY Do It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYkXE3PC3M
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 05:32:57 PM
Quote
    Full statement from Jane's Revenge, announcing that it's "open season" on pro-life pregnancy centers.

    Future measures "may not come in the form of something so easily cleaned up as fire and graffiti," the terrorist group threatens.

    Merrick Garland????? pic.twitter.com/zxnB53mVzi

    — Caroline Downey (@carolinedowney_) June 15, 2022

Quote
“From here forward, any anti-choice group who closes their doors, and stops operating will no longer be a target. But until you do, it’s open season, and we know where your operations are,” they write. And allies who doubt their sincerity are urged to “Go do one of your own. You are already one of us. Everyone with the urge to paint, to burn, to cut, to jam: now is the time. Go forth and manifest the things you wish to see.”

Terrorist organization Jane’s Revenge declares ‘open season’ on ‘anti-choice’ groups; ‘The leash is off’
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/15/terrorist-organization-janes-revenge-declares-open-season-on-anti-choice-groups-the-leash-is-off/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 15, 2022, 06:49:24 PM
Does Kamala have the bail fund set up yet?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 15, 2022, 08:34:20 PM
Abortion Activists Target Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Her Children With Potential Violence
https://www.lifenews.com/2022/06/10/abortion-activists-target-justice-amy-coney-barrett-and-her-children-with-potential-violence/

https://americandefensenews.com/2022/06/13/far-left-group-threatens-to-target-justice-amy-coney-barretts-children-church-and-home/

Quote
Though the pro-abortion group denounced violence this week, it also posted several mocking and ominous messages on Twitter.

Ruth Sent Us mentioned Barrett’s children in a call to protest outside her home and a local elementary school. Barrett has seven children, and the youngest is 10.

“If you’re in the DC metro area, join us. Our protests at Barrett’s home moved the needle to this coverage,” the pro-abortion group wrote. “Falls Church is a People of Praise stronghold. She sends her seven kids to a People of Praise school that she sat on the Board of Directors for. She attends church DAILY.”

The group also mentioned the name of a local elementary school as a starting point for its protest.

The radical pro-abortion group sent another one indicating abortion activists know where Kavanaugh and his wife, Ashley, send their two daughters to school.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 15, 2022, 08:39:01 PM
The Revolution
War of 1812
The Mexican American War
Civil War
Indian Wars
Spanish American War
WW-I
WW-II
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf War
Gulf War II
Civil War II The Abortion War
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 15, 2022, 10:47:09 PM
Abortion Activists Target Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Her Children With Potential Violence

The ends justify the means to leftists, always.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 16, 2022, 03:24:46 PM
Can you imagine the shitstorm if a "conservative" activist group posted the same kind of thinly veiled threats against any of the liberal judges and their families?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 16, 2022, 03:41:13 PM
Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 16, 2022, 04:03:29 PM
Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

I see there have been 11 anti-abortion murders.

And over 63,000,000 human beings killed by the pro-choice crowd.

That is a pretty impressive kill to death ratio by the abortionists.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 16, 2022, 04:12:19 PM
Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Yes.  But here’s the difference.  A handful of abortion clinics got firebombed a long time ago, and it’s STILL being used to paint the pro-lifers as violent lunatics.  Something like 17 crisis pregnancy centers (places that actually support women through their pregnancy and try to help become self-sustaining) get firebombed in the last few weeks since the draft Dobbs vs Jackson opinion was leaked and NOBODY is saying anything outside of a few podcasts.

Also, pretty much all pro-life organizations condemn violence against abortion clinics and providers.  The left is like “eh, they deserve it” when the violence comes from their side. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 16, 2022, 04:45:56 PM
Can you imagine the shitstorm if a "conservative" activist group posted the same kind of thinly veiled threats against any of the liberal judges and their families?

They don't have to, the MSM happily makes it up for them.   
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 16, 2022, 05:18:50 PM
Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Um, no one needs to be reminded. The media's been giving those stories a lopsided amount of attention for decades.


Something like 17 crisis pregnancy centers (places that actually support women through their pregnancy and try to help become self-sustaining) get firebombed in the last few weeks since the draft Dobbs vs Jackson opinion was leaked and NOBODY is saying anything outside of a few podcasts.

These are the same people that have been saying for 50 years now that pro-lifers don't care about the women or children involved, and that we should shut up unless we are personally helping the mothers through (and after) their pregnancy.


Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 16, 2022, 09:07:44 PM
Just in case it is forgotten, the violence goes both ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

What's life like being a progressive appologist?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on June 16, 2022, 09:48:40 PM
What's life like being a progressive appologist?

One of those people on the murdered list was a doctor that saved my wifes life many years ago so you can piss off.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 16, 2022, 10:23:49 PM
What's life like being a progressive appologist?

I wouldn't say they're progressives, Bob.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 16, 2022, 11:01:01 PM
One of those people on the murdered list was a doctor that saved my wifes life many years ago so you can piss off.

And?

If they were a bystander that's tragic.
If they were a participant in killing babies, that's karma.

Neither of those negates my statement that comparing a dozen attacks over a span of decades to dozens of attacks over the span of months plus about 60 odd million infanticides is false moral equivalency and gas lighting.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 16, 2022, 11:08:43 PM
And yet, not everyone on this board or in American society shares your opinion.  Huh.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 16, 2022, 11:26:09 PM
And yet, not everyone on this board or in American society shares your opinion.  Huh.

You're right, in this country and on this forum there are some really sick people who think killing infants in the womb is okey dokey.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 16, 2022, 11:36:33 PM
You're right, in this country and on this forum there are some really sick people who think killing infants in the womb is okey dokey.

So it is OK to kill those people, right?  And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 16, 2022, 11:39:44 PM
So it is OK to kill those people, right?  And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?

Don't care.  You still tried to what-about-them and curry sympathy for American Genocide.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 17, 2022, 09:11:19 AM

I am not arguing about abortion.  That is a rabbit hole we can dump to another thread.  It isn't going to get us anywhere. 

I just hope this wasn't some kind of tease and the Supreme Court follows through with what they have seemingly decided.  Regardless of your thoughts on the subject, Roe vs Wade was a bad decision.  It should have been left to the states or state legislatures.  I hope it is a trend for those types of decisions. 

I do sort of wonder if abortion may not have gotten to the current point if the one party hadn't gotten the FedGov to fund abortions and fund/support pro-abortion groups.  It still would have been a contentious issue, but may not have been pushed to the present status where one part is bordering on support for infanticide.  Seems like all issues are driven by the extremes. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 17, 2022, 09:36:28 AM
So it is OK to kill those people, right?  And kill the women seeking an abortion? Karma, and the end justifies the means?

It's not "OK." It's the duty of government to try murderers [abortionists and their customers], and if proven guilty, execute them. Our government should never have created a situation where some people thought they had to go vigilante lynch-mob, to protect innocent children from being slaughtered.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 17, 2022, 09:33:26 PM
Bit of a disconnect here

Quote
Eight dads are sharing how abortion has helped them become the fathers they are today, on what experts believe will likely be the last Father’s Day before the Supreme Court issues a ruling that would overturn Roe v Wade.

The TODAY show celebrates Father’s Day with an article on how abortion helped 8 dads ‘become the fathers they are today’
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/17/the-today-show-celebrates-fathers-day-with-an-article-on-how-abortion-helped-8-dads-become-the-fathers-they-are-today/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 18, 2022, 08:17:50 PM
Brian Poweeeer!

Quote
    KAMALA HARRIS: “There’s nothing about [abortion] that will require anyone to abandon their faith” pic.twitter.com/6DsMBg94Ui

    — RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 18, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/18/kamala-harris-says-theres-nothing-about-abortion-that-would-require-anyone-to-change-their-faith/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 20, 2022, 07:24:12 PM
 :facepalm:

Libs of TikTok finds a girl who’d get pregnant just to have the abortion
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/20/libs-of-tiktok-finds-a-girl-whod-get-pregnant-just-to-have-the-abortion/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2022, 12:34:45 AM
She seems nice.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 21, 2022, 01:38:50 AM
She seems nice.


Most likely in the no-go zone of the hot/crazy matrix.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 04:48:21 PM
Quote
    A pro-abortion protester heckles at activists with Students for Life, she tells them to “suck my dick, bitch” and mimics jerking off.

    Hard to hear, I think she said,
    “You will not take my right away! I will always get an abortion! I’ll go in a back alley and will *expletive deleted*ing die!” pic.twitter.com/5LDKPahzK0

    — Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) June 21, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/21/i-will-always-get-an-abortion-julio-rosas-shares-video-of-some-pro-abortion-protesters-in-front-of-scotus/

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/huh.gif?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2022, 05:15:16 PM
Which one is crazier: Reply #350 or #353?

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 21, 2022, 05:19:15 PM
Which one is crazier: Reply #350 or #353?

Whichever one you choose someone will be along shortly to top it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 21, 2022, 05:21:40 PM
Whichever one you choose someone will be along shortly to top it.

... especially if Roe v. Wade is overturned.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on June 21, 2022, 05:53:07 PM
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/21/i-will-always-get-an-abortion-julio-rosas-shares-video-of-some-pro-abortion-protesters-in-front-of-scotus/
 
    Hard to hear, I think she said,
    “You will not take my right away! I will always get an abortion! I’ll go in a back alley and will *expletive deleted*ing die!” pic.twitter.com/5LDKPahzK0

    — Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) June 21, 2022


Those terms are acceptable.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 21, 2022, 05:58:51 PM
Most likely in the no-go zone of the hot/crazy matrix.

Well, she DID say she's psycho ...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on June 22, 2022, 03:47:34 PM
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ag-ellison-minnesota-visitors-seeking-legal-abortion-wont-be-prosecuted/

Is there any talk what so ever about future abortion is illegal states going after their own residents who may seek an abortion in a future abortion is legal state? I just find it odd that the MN AG said this.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on June 22, 2022, 03:56:15 PM
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ag-ellison-minnesota-visitors-seeking-legal-abortion-wont-be-prosecuted/

Is there any talk what so ever about future abortion us illegal states going after their own residents who may seek an abortion in a future abortion is legal state? I just find it odd that the MN AG said this.

It didn't need to be said; of course they wouldn't be prosecuted because no law was broken in MN.  Ellison likes to hear himself talk, plus he's sucking-up to the Democrat national party.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 22, 2022, 05:27:52 PM
The USA prosecutes people who go overseas to sexually exploit children.  Even if it’s not illegal (or enforced if it is) where they did that.  It’s not unthinkable that politicians in some red state could enact legislation that made travel or abetting travel for the express purpose of obtaining an abortion illegal.  I doubt they could prosecute the doctor/clinic personnel in the blue state, but they could go after the woman and anyone who knowingly assisted in the travel (paying for plane/bus/train/Uber fare, loaning a vehicle, actually driving the woman there, etc).  Just maybe not for the abortion per se.

The problem, logistically at least, is that, unless someone decides to make themselves a test case like Larry Flynt and his buddies with challenging anti-pornography laws in the 70’s, you can’t really know why any given woman is traveling from Wyoming to Minnesota.  We don’t require women to register their menstrual cycles, thankfully, so it’s impossible to know if a woman is pregnant (she could just be fat).  So, without a massive surveillance state, it would only be applied to women and their abettors when someone decides to tattle on their pregnancy.  Or as a matter of revenge when a relationship goes sour. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Strings on June 22, 2022, 09:20:11 PM
If I squint, I can see another way

Patient list obtained from abortion provider (in whatever fashion) given to agent of anti abortion state.

Assuming, of course, such records are kept (and people don't use false credentials)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 23, 2022, 12:40:57 AM
If I squint, I can see another way

Patient list obtained from abortion provider (in whatever fashion) given to agent of anti abortion state.

Assuming, of course, such records are kept (and people don't use false credentials)

Highly likely to be ruled inadmissible as evidence as it would have to have been obtained illegally in such an example.  Either a violation of patient privacy by a clinic worker, or robbery, or such. 

Listen, I’m as pro-life as as most people here, but I’m also opposed to totalitarian regimes.  And criminalizing travel to other states to obtain an abortion requires a degree of totalitarianism I’m very opposed to.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bogie on June 23, 2022, 12:48:48 AM
Everyone knows that everything outside major metros is Footloose Country, and people in MAGA hats will make you have their babies.
 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Strings on June 23, 2022, 12:56:17 PM
Seem to recall a work around on inadmissable evidence. Something like "codeveloped" or some such

Basically, the police claiming that evidence had been found/developed, and the inadmissible was just corroboration of the good stuff.

Not saying I like it. Not saying I would condone it. But COULD see someone using it
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 23, 2022, 02:29:40 PM
As far as I know, pro-life advocates and the laws they support have not generally gone after the people getting the abortion.  They targeted the doctors/clinics.  I can see them trying to go after people recruiting women for abortions in states where it is illegal.  I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to collect the evidence once police have enough to subpoena phone records and such.  As far as identifying them in the first place, eventually you are going to see parents or friends or prospective fathers report the people. 

I don't know how that will work out in the courts, but I fully expect abortion advocates to push the limits as far as they can in ban states forcing pro-life advocates to react to try to stop them. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on June 23, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
The USA prosecutes people who go overseas to sexually exploit children.  Even if it’s not illegal (or enforced if it is) where they did that.  It’s not unthinkable that politicians in some red state could enact legislation that made travel or abetting travel for the express purpose of obtaining an abortion illegal.  I doubt they could prosecute the doctor/clinic personnel in the blue state, but they could go after the woman and anyone who knowingly assisted in the travel (paying for plane/bus/train/Uber fare, loaning a vehicle, actually driving the woman there, etc).  Just maybe not for the abortion per se.

The problem, logistically at least, is that, unless someone decides to make themselves a test case like Larry Flynt and his buddies with challenging anti-pornography laws in the 70’s, you can’t really know why any given woman is traveling from Wyoming to Minnesota.  We don’t require women to register their menstrual cycles, thankfully, so it’s impossible to know if a woman is pregnant (she could just be fat).  So, without a massive surveillance state, it would only be applied to women and their abettors when someone decides to tattle on their pregnancy.  Or as a matter of revenge when a relationship goes sour.

The Atty General of Minnesota has no say-so about other states trying to prosecute women who come here for an abortion.  (it's unlikely they would do that anyway)  Perhaps he can say that his office will not cooperate with any such prosecutions, but IFAIK that's not what he said.  Perhaps he's an idiot and doesn't realize that he doesn't prosecute alleged crime in other states.  I wouldn't totally rule out the idiot angle, but I think he's just grandstanding; perhaps has aspirations for a federal appointment or plans to run for US Senate and wants DNC and Soros backing
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 23, 2022, 03:01:29 PM
Not a big fan of the idea of prosecuting someone for committing an act that is not a crime in the jurisdiction where it was committed. (yes the underage sex thing is egregious and someone that travels to screw kids is scum I'm not sure about prosecuting them at home, better they should have a tragic and fatal accident while still abroad)
May be a bit of a reach but let's say I own some evil assault type weapons that are illegal in California. I don't live in California but I travel there (gourd know why) but I leave my evil assault type weapon at home. Under the idea of being able to prosecute someone for doing something that is illegal in the location of prosecution but not in the location it was done in, California could prosecute people from out of state for owning "illegal assault weapons" when they enter California even though they ae not in possession of the weapon. Or prosecute a resident that owns an "illegal assault weapon" but keeps it at a 2nd residence in another state.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 04:32:15 PM
RvW you're up!
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 23, 2022, 05:15:35 PM
Speaking of which
Quote
    BREAKING: The Department of Homeland Security is communicating with Catholic Churches and pregnancy centers, telling them to be prepared for a "Night of Rage" by pro-abortion groups pledging "extreme violence" the night of the Dobbs decision.

    — Lila Rose (@LilaGraceRose) June 23, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 23, 2022, 05:30:28 PM
Speaking of whichhttps://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/

I don't doubt there are notices going out, but looking at that one a little sideways. "Night of rage" is not typical DHS language. They would more likely say something like "Be prepared for highly elevated chances of violent and destructive behavior directed at organizations, buildings, and individuals". Besides, they have been issuing heightened-awareness notices for a week or two.

Brad
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on June 23, 2022, 05:40:38 PM
I don't doubt there are notices going out, but looking at that one a little sideways. "Night of rage" is not typical DHS language. They would more likely say something like "Be prepared for highly elevated chances of violent and destructive behavior directed at organizations, buildings, and individuals". Besides, they have been issuing heightened-awareness notices for a week or two.

Brad

Kind of what I was thinking, someone is trying to spotlight themselves.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on June 23, 2022, 06:54:04 PM
Speaking of whichhttps://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/23/report-dhs-warning-pregnancy-crisis-centers-to-be-prepared-for-a-night-of-rage/

I am surprised that DHS didn't say be prepared as conservative organizations and white supremacists take to the streets to violently celebrate RvW being overturned.  That's been their speed of late.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Strings on June 23, 2022, 07:31:35 PM
RKL just kinda hit what my fear is

Because honestly, on either issue, I could see a DA trying to push such a prosecution as a grandstand.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 23, 2022, 08:52:42 PM
RKL just kinda hit what my fear is

Because honestly, on either issue, I could see a DA trying to push such a prosecution as a grandstand.

You're afraid they'll go after someone that's falsely accused, or someone that's guilty?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 24, 2022, 07:10:48 AM
You're afraid they'll go after someone that's falsely accused, or someone that's guilty?

So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 07:28:46 AM
So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?

While not a legal action, this is a pretty good example that happened around ten years ago:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/08/08/california-wildlife-official-replaced-after-killing-mountain-lion-in-idaho/

A CA wildlife official came to Idaho to legally hunt mountain lions and was then forced to resign from his state position because CA doesn't allow lion hunting.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 24, 2022, 08:08:41 AM
Heinous, vile, and backward as I find abortion to be, I don't like the idea of one state enforcing their laws on someone who was in another state with different laws.  I think that's a legitimate place for the Federal government to step in.  That said, I'll withhold my personal moral panic for when a DA actually starts going after a woman for killing her baby in a state in which it is legal to do so, or when a state law authorizing such a prosecution becomes a serious possibility.

This particular argument strikes me as similar to the feigned concern by pro-abortion advocates about cases of rape or incest.  That is to say, the extreme edge case (and in this case entirely speculative) Motte used whenever there is pushback on the much less palatable Bailey of wanting women to be able to kill their baby for any reason at any time.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:17:43 AM
Just heard on Fox Business. Overturned.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 10:22:08 AM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/h8D1urC.gif)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 24, 2022, 10:23:18 AM
That’s a nice birthday present!!
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 24, 2022, 10:26:27 AM
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/roe-wade-abortion-supreme-court-ruling/index.html
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2022, 10:27:03 AM
Riots commence in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:29:25 AM
Riots commence in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

You mean "peaceful protests supported by the White House".
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:30:00 AM
I thought this was a great analogy:

Quote
This "federal ban on abortion" is as much a ban on abortion as overturning the national 55 mph speed limit was a ban on speed limits.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 10:34:47 AM
Also, for this and the New York decision, thank you President Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 24, 2022, 10:36:14 AM
Also, for this and the New York decision, thank you President Donald Trump.

+1
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 10:46:15 AM
So you'd be OK with a jurisdiction prosecuting someone that committed an act that is not a crime where the act was committed but is a crime where the prosecution occurs?
In oklahoma it is illegal to hunt alligators. If I travel to Louisiana and hunted and killed an alligator following all applicable state and federal laws in that jurisdiction should Oklahoma be able to prosecute me when I return home?

I didn't say that, but are you OK with someone murdering their kid and getting away with it?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bogie on June 24, 2022, 11:01:05 AM
They're the ones who are gonna have to live with it on their consciences. I don't wish to support it - financially, or otherwise.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 24, 2022, 11:03:06 AM
I didn't say that, but are you OK with someone murdering their kid and getting away with it?

I certainly don't agree with the concept of abortion as birth control however it is a fact, that as abhorrent as it is, abortion is currently legal on a federal level and will be controlled by the states as is appropriate. If you think it would be appropriate to prosecute a woman for travelling from her state of residence, where she is legally barred from getting an abortion to a state where it is legally allowed then my previous example is just as valid.
The only solution to satisfy your concern is to enact a federal law banning abortion.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 11:07:40 AM
6-3 again
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 11:36:29 AM
The stupid is strong with this one and it's the kind of stupid that gets people killed.

Quote
    Go to the home of every Supreme Court justice who just voted to kill women. Let them know how you feel

    — Cameron Kasky (@cameron_kasky) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/24/parkland-shooting-survivor-cameron-kasky-urges-followers-to-go-to-the-home-of-every-supreme-court-justice-who-just-voted-to-kill-women/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 24, 2022, 11:37:51 AM
On crossing state lines....

Would it be okay to take a two year old child into another state or nation where it is legal to kill them, do so, and then return without them?

No, because the child has the inalienable right to life, same as the unborn child.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 24, 2022, 11:54:28 AM
On crossing state lines....

Would it be okay to take a two year old child into another state or nation where it is legal to kill them, do so, and then return without them?

No, because the child has the inalienable right to life, same as the unborn child.
If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder.  Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 12:06:04 PM

The only solution to satisfy your concern is to enact a federal law banning abortion.

I can almost agree with that. Just have to replace "satisfy your concerns" with "have laws that defend basic human rights, like the right not to be knocked off by your own mother."

There's a lot of pearl-clutching going on over what looks like a relatively minor issue, compared to the whole child-murdering thing.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 24, 2022, 12:09:42 PM
If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder.  Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.

Doesn't the child have a basic expectation of not being transported for the purposes of rights deprivation (being killed)?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 24, 2022, 12:24:33 PM
If you take your own child across state lines and kill them, it is not up to your home state to prosecute the murder.  Rather, it is up to the state with jurisdiction where the crime (or non-crime) was committed.

There are already federal laws banning citizens from leaving the USA, travelling to places where child rape is legal, and raping children there.

It is called extraterritorial jurisdiction.  It is a real thing.

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-extraterritorial-sexual-exploitation-children
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 12:36:50 PM
Quote
    In 1982 Joe Biden proposes a constitutional amendment that would overturn Roe v. Wade and allow states to choose their own policies on abortion.https://t.co/5aFcpaATGo

    — David Harsanyi (@davidharsanyi) June 24, 2022

Quote
    In 1994, Biden brags that he has voted against abortion funding on 50 separate occasions. He voted for partial birth abortion bans twice.https://t.co/XiVbeBM32x

    — David Harsanyi (@davidharsanyi) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/24/oof-thats-gotta-sting-thread-shows-democrats-elected-the-most-pro-life-democrat-maybe-ever-when-they-elected-biden/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 24, 2022, 01:44:31 PM
Doesn't the child have a basic expectation of not being transported for the purposes of rights deprivation (being killed)?
You're addressing a different point altogether, and simultaneously falling into a pro-abortion trap.

There are already federal laws banning citizens from leaving the USA, travelling to places where child rape is legal, and raping children there.
Take it up with Article III of the the US Constitution my good man.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2022, 02:48:38 PM
I don't think the first out of state abortion case will be against someone getting the abortion.  It will be against someone who is basically a sales agent for the abortion provider.  I doubt Planned Parenthood will close their clinics in Texas and they will be recruiting for out of state abortions.  Just my prediction. 

Have any states where abortion is illegal passed a law trying to outlaw getting an abortion in another state? (I hadn't heard of any, but some laws may be worded that way).  Have any of the Governors or Attorney Generals talked about it?  Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 24, 2022, 02:58:04 PM
Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen.
It's a clever bit of manipulation on the part of the pro-abortionists.  A hand grenade designed to pit the most ideologically pure anti-abortionists against the anti-abortionists for whom limited government and the Constitution is also important.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: JTHunter on June 24, 2022, 03:03:37 PM
One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE.  While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books.  Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months !  Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 03:04:40 PM
I don't think the first out of state abortion case will be against someone getting the abortion.  It will be against someone who is basically a sales agent for the abortion provider.  I doubt Planned Parenthood will close their clinics in Texas and they will be recruiting for out of state abortions.  Just my prediction. 

Have any states where abortion is illegal passed a law trying to outlaw getting an abortion in another state? (I hadn't heard of any, but some laws may be worded that way).  Have any of the Governors or Attorney Generals talked about it?  Just seems like you are arguing about a potential issue that you don't know will even happen.

I know that after Idaho passed our new abortion laws (tied up in court by a planned parenthood lawsuit, but maybe not after today?) planned parenthood immediately expanded their services in Ontario, OR, right across the border (about an hour from Boise). I'm not sure if they did the same thing in Spokane, WA (about 40min from Coeur d'Alene).

They specifically said it was to serve Idaho women seeking abortions.

Edit: Actually, I just read that the Idaho law will go into effect in 30 days. All abortions banned except in the case of rape, incest, or to protect the mother's life.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 03:27:12 PM
There was a family somewhere around here that had almost a full-time gig monitoring and picketing one of the fake clinics (since the Left is now using that term) on the Illinois side of the river. The "clinic" apparently had a reputation for their willingness to perform late-term murders, and the family (don't recall the name anymore) kept track of what states people were driving in from.

So I could envision some very activist people jotting down out-of-state license plates, and reporting them. If there are any states willing to do anything about it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 03:38:08 PM
One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE.  While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books.  Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months !  Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.


I am very happy to see that Missouri's law protects the rights of everyone, even people who have the misfortune of being the child of a rapist, or of incestuous parents. I guess some people don't see them as being worthy of protection.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 24, 2022, 05:44:38 PM
One of the Left's squawks is about how RvW was a "Constitutional right", something all but the most mindless know to be a LIE.  While RvW made abortion "legal", it was only able to do so by usurping the rights of the States to make those decisions.
I don't like the idea of abortions for "family planning" but I also don't like the restrictions that so many states (like Missouri) are putting on their books.  Any pregnancy resulting from a crime (rape or incest) SHOULD be allowed, up to even 6 months !  Some younger victims might no be aware they are pregnant for a variety of reasons (lack of education mostly) that it might take that long for them to find out.


Wouldn't that incentivized false rape claims?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on June 24, 2022, 06:28:13 PM
I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2022, 07:10:27 PM
I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.

Eh ... maybe not so much:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-poll-15-percent-voters-view-abortion-most-important-election-issue-economy-top
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 24, 2022, 07:20:58 PM
Eh ... maybe not so much:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-poll-15-percent-voters-view-abortion-most-important-election-issue-economy-top

Yup. It's another small, screeching minority. Within a few months they'll find that nothing much has changed in the states where their politics are the majority. For the screechers that are in states that will now restrict abortions, that's being done because the majority in those states want it, and will vote accordingly.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on June 24, 2022, 07:34:13 PM
What's going to happen is losing a bunch of independents in the states that go full ban. I won't vote dem but there is no guaranty I will vote gop.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 07:39:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVDYTpiX0AElyyq?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 24, 2022, 08:49:02 PM
Quote
The outcome means immediate abortion bans in roughly half the states, including Kentucky.

That's due to HB 148, a "trigger law," which was signed in 2019 by then-Gov. Matt Bevin. The law states that all abortions would be immediately illegal should Roe v. Wade ever be overturned.
Quote
There will be very limited instances where abortions would be allowed, like to prevent the death or serious injury of the person giving birth. But according to Gov. Andy Beshear, this would not include instances of rape or incest.

Abortions in Kentucky immediately banned with overturning of Roe v. Wade
https://www.wlky.com/article/abortions-kentucky-banned-illegal-supreme-court-roe-v-wade/40406350
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 08:56:28 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVDYTpiX0AElyyq?format=jpg&name=small)

Yup. I think interest in the abortion issue might tick up a bit, in the immediate aftermath of the decision becoming official. As Ben said, though, people will eventually see that it's not the apocalypse. Inflation, high gas prices, etc., will still be problems, so this won't do much to blunt the red wave.

Red wave:(https://p7.hiclipart.com/preview/805/534/551/5bbc0b7d5f320.jpg)

So Planned Parenthood has claimed abortion is only 3% of what they do. Anti-abortion activists have said they really don't do much of anything else, and are for-profit abortion mills. Will be interesting to see if PPs stay open in the forced-birth patriarchy states. Guess the blue state PPs might get enough of that sweet abortion money to keep the others afloat.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2022, 09:23:57 PM
Looks like Liz Cheney's new friends aren't super-thrilled at her reaction to today's news.  =D 

And she's been courting them to save her bacon in her home state.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on June 24, 2022, 09:34:14 PM
I'm out and about in small town Iowa, there is a lot of angry women. My wife was even pissed when she came home from work. I'm out by myself because it's hostile at home. I ran out of outside work at home so I headed uptown to the brewery. I know it's a small observation but I'm keeping my mouth shut. My conversations with friends have been about the battle between my resident Jack squirrel named Spiderman and the extremely territorial house wren.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 24, 2022, 09:45:05 PM
A lot of women who have never, and likely would never personally get an abortion have still been brainwashed with the notion that abortion is somehow a key factor in their lives and ability to have any hope of parity with men in our culture.  In another 10-20 years we shall see where attitudes, especially with women that come of age during that time frame, wind up.  The general trend has been away from radical pro-abortion stances.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 24, 2022, 10:28:02 PM
 [tinfoil]
Is this the watershed event that kicks off the bugaloo?
 [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 24, 2022, 11:25:53 PM
https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1540355358618750976

Some of the protests planned by those unhappy with the Dobbs ruling.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220624/cd0900c3eacfa16be96b25d7a1254b06.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2022, 11:39:16 PM
Yup. I think interest in the abortion issue might tick up a bit, in the immediate aftermath of the decision becoming official. As Ben said, though, people will eventually see that it's not the apocalypse. Inflation, high gas prices, etc., will still be problems, so this won't do much to blunt the red wave.

Red wave:(https://p7.hiclipart.com/preview/805/534/551/5bbc0b7d5f320.jpg)

So Planned Parenthood has claimed abortion is only 3% of what they do. Anti-abortion activists have said they really don't do much of anything else, and are for-profit abortion mills. Will be interesting to see if PPs stay open in the forced-birth patriarchy states. Guess the blue state PPs might get enough of that sweet abortion money to keep the others afloat.
PP is still getting govt funding I think.  I think they still try to keep some of their locations open.  It would highlight the lie if they suddenly close down in ban states. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 24, 2022, 11:48:05 PM
I predict a huge Democrat voter turnout in the midterms.
Just my opinion:
1.  I thought I heard in the past that more pro-lifers had abortion as their top issue than pro-abortion people.  That was a long time ago so opinions may have shifted.  Still going to be a mixed reaction I think. 
2.  The majority of the voters have never had abortion as their top issue.  Again, old info that I think is still probably true.
3.  I think the old statement "its the economy stupid" still applies.  Plenty of opportunities for people to be reminded when they fill up the gas tank.
4.  Still 3 more months before we hit October with early voting.  Plenty of time for other issues to climb back to the front page. 

I guess we will see in November.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 25, 2022, 01:20:35 AM
Just my opinion:
1.  I thought I heard in the past that more pro-lifers had abortion as their top issue than pro-abortion people.  That was a long time ago so opinions may have shifted.  Still going to be a mixed reaction I think. 


Pro-lifers will mostly remain animated because now instead of one massive fight at the federal level it’s going to be lots of relatively smaller fights at the state level.  Both to fend off challenges to pro-life laws but also to try to turn pro-abortion states into pro-life states.

For pro-lifers this isn’t the end.  It’s not even the beginning of the end.  It’s barely the end of the beginning.  Apologies to my 6th cousin for stealing his line.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: De Selby on June 25, 2022, 06:36:17 AM
A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:

https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)

Quote
Madison's attempt became enshrined in the Constitution as the Ninth Amendment. Here is what it says: "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." In short, unenumerated rights get the same respect as enumerated ones.

Quote
William Blackstone's widely read Commentaries on the Laws of England, first published in 1765, made this exact point: Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."

Blackstone's work was a major influence on America's founding generation. The founders read Blackstone and they well understood that abortion was legal during the early stages of pregnancy under the common law. What is more, because every state at the time of the founding followed the common law as described by Blackstone, no state originally possessed the lawful power to prohibit abortion before quickening. We might call this the original understanding of the regulatory powers of the states.

That same original understanding extends to the Ninth Amendment. Because the states followed the common law at the founding, the American people originally understood that lawmakers lacked the lawful power to prohibit women from ending an unwanted pregnancy during its early stages. The freedom to end an unwanted pregnancy before quickening thus falls within the original meaning and understanding of a right "retained by the people."
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 09:06:26 AM
Slightly tangential, but I just heard Biden, right before he signed the new gun legislation, stating that the feds will be watching states and will take legal action against any state that attempts to block women from crossing state lines for an abortion.

So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 09:08:31 AM

So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?

Be sure to wave to the person going the other way for an abortion
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 25, 2022, 09:11:13 AM
I hadn't really appreciated before how a democracy-limiting institution like the Supreme Court could actually defend and enhance the democratic element of our republic. With good people in charge, of course.

A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:

https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)

If you don't like judicial activism, you should see that old, dead decision from a few decades ago. Roe v Wade, I think it was called. You'll really hate that one.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: De Selby on June 25, 2022, 09:16:39 AM
I hadn't really appreciated before how a democracy-limiting institution like the Supreme Court could actually defend and enhance the democratic element of our republic. With good people in charge, of course.

If you don't like judicial activism, you should see that old, dead decision from a few decades ago. Roe v Wade, I think it was called. You'll really hate that one.

The article linked is a very accessible explanation for why Roe was not activism and why many unenumerated rights are protected by the constitution. Roe was a predictable outcome from a long line of cases that recognised limits on government power to regulate the race a person chooses to marry, their decision to use birth control, parental rights, and others. If you accept that there were rights reserved for the people, it’s predictable that is.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 25, 2022, 09:19:36 AM
From the Reason article, quoting Blackwood:

Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."

Movement of the baby in the womb can be felt "quickening" as the article said late in pregnancy (around 25 weeks or so).  So many have felt that was when the soul entered the body.

However, human fetuses move much earlier, at least at six weeks.  This was not known in Blackstone's time, as it could not be felt.

So if we accept fetal movement as the dividing line for legal protection, the age for legal abortion would need to be moved to prior to six weeks.

Here is a video of a seven week fetus moving.  This is clearly a living human being:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY)

However, the criteria of movement does not make sense to declare a human being worthy of legal protection.  If that were so, it would be ok to kill paralyzed persons.

Laws banning human abortion at earlier stages of development actually started being written towards the latter part of the 19th century- prompted by discoveries in embryology.  Science realized that the "quickening" standard was false, and that early embryos and fetuses are living human beings, just like later term fetuses are.  This pro-life movement was led by doctors, guided by science.

I do not believe in "ensoulment"... I think it is wrong to kill unborn human beings because they are living human beings, and therefore deserving of the right not to be killed, despite whatever physical traits they may lack.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: De Selby on June 25, 2022, 09:21:31 AM
Slightly tangential, but I just heard Biden, right before he signed the new gun legislation, stating that the feds will be watching states and will take legal action against any state that attempts to block women from crossing state lines for an abortion.

So what if someone wants to cross from CA to AZ to buy 30 round mags or unbutchered ARs, or even more applicably, to buy ammo which they can otherwise only buy in person, in state?

The extensions might go further than you think - neither the right to own any specific kind of gun nor the right to self defense are enumerated in the constitution. You could imagine a future court listing all the restrictions states asserted in the past, like types of weapons or “duty to retreat” type restrictions on self defense that in substance reverse Heller and uphold all manner of gun law.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: De Selby on June 25, 2022, 09:24:17 AM
From the Reason article, quoting Blackwood:

Life "begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb." Under the common law, Blackstone explained, legal penalties for abortion only occurred "if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb."

Movement of the baby in the womb can be felt "quickening" as the article said late in pregnancy (around 25 weeks or so).  So many have felt that was when the soul entered the body.

However, human fetuses move much earlier, at least at six weeks.  This was not known in Blackstone's time, as it could not be felt.

So if we accept fetal movement as the dividing line for legal protection, the age for legal abortion would need to be moved to prior to six weeks.

Here is a video of a seven week fetus moving.  This is clearly a living human being:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY)

Laws banning human abortion at earlier stages of development actually started being written towards the latter part of the 19th century- prompted by discoveries in embryology.  This pro-life movement was led by doctors.

However, the criteria of movement does not make sense to declare a human being worthy of legal protection.  If that were so, it would be ok to kill paralyzed persons.

I do not believe in "ensoulment"... I think it is wrong to kill unborn human beings because they are living human beings, and therefore deserving of the right not to be killed, despite whatever physical traits they may lack.

The point he was making there was that abortion was not criminalised early in pregnancy, and so the states have no historical power to regulate it before physically being able to feel movement. You’re submitting your own view of what the historical powers should have been, but the point of the reason article is that a power the state didn’t have and that it wasn’t granted in the constitution or otherwise is one it shouldn’t have now.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 09:41:20 AM
Be sure to wave to the person going the other way for an abortion

Just stay home and ask her to bring back some magazines.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 10:33:37 AM
The extensions might go further than you think - neither the right to own any specific kind of gun nor the right to self defense are enumerated in the constitution.

The Founding Fathers were pretty big on, "If it is not specifically forbidden, then it is allowed" vs "If it is not specifically allowed, then it is forbidden". I would suspect they would be on the "get any gun you want" side of the line vs the "we only meant muskets" side.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 10:53:56 AM
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-man-most-responsible-for-ending-roe-worries-that-it-could-hurt-his-party/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=owned_echobox_f&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3pzg6kpRWq4_c2YXl89qUE_KbXE79QyVLwPzTk2v3lFJAUVqJAG7GguOw#Echobox=1656123826-1

We will see if President Trump's worries are confirmed by election results.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 11:06:27 AM
Biden on abortion:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1540529065618202624
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 11:54:51 AM
Yes it's killing and we're okay with that because it's for the public good

Feminist Writer: 'Abortion Involves Killing...And That's OK'
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/06/25/feminist-writer-abortion-is-killing-and-thats-ok-n2609310
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 25, 2022, 01:32:40 PM
Clarence Thomas Creates Shockwaves For Stating Next ‘Error’ That Supreme Court Should ‘Correct’
https://www.dailywire.com/news/clarence-thomas-creates-shockwaves-for-stating-next-error-that-supreme-court-should-correct?utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&utm_content=member

I believe Thomas opinion was concurring.  I thought I heard that meant it was not law.  Either way, sounds like he considered some of these issues should be left to the states to regulate. 

https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/supreme-court-overturns-constitutional-right-to-abortion/
Looking at pieces of this, Alito did not agree with Thomas on that particular issue. 

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 25, 2022, 01:48:30 PM
The article linked is a very accessible explanation for why Roe was not activism and why many unenumerated rights are protected by the constitution. Roe was a predictable outcome from a long line of cases that recognised limits on government power to regulate the race a person chooses to marry, their decision to use birth control, parental rights, and others. If you accept that there were rights reserved for the people, it’s predictable that is.

I generally agree with that position as do i think most people. The problem is that we cannot agree on what constitutes a living human being. Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.
At what point does a human life begin? At the moment of conception is one side of the argument. The other side is apparently some as yet undefined period of time after the birth occurs.
That is what the disagreement comes down to. One side sees it as eliminating an unwanted mass of tissue, the other side sees it as murder.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2022, 02:25:56 PM
Anyways, so I guess the whole leaker thing is going to fade away? I was kinda thinking that was still important, but it seems like neither side cares about finding the culprit anymore.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Anyways, so I guess the whole leaker thing is going to fade away? I was kinda thinking that was still important, but it seems like neither side cares about finding the culprit anymore.

Not much point in finding the leak after the ship sunk.
But it would be nice to know to help prevent the next one.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 25, 2022, 02:48:48 PM
Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.

I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: bedlamite on June 25, 2022, 02:50:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uEIQCCQ.jpg)

In reality, they would be pushing both buttons.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 25, 2022, 03:25:57 PM
I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.

Probably right but the few times I have had pro-choicetards screeching at me about keeping women down and pushing handmaidens tale bullshit while accusing me of being a misogynistic racist I lump them right in with the most vile of their fellow travelers and dead baby parts merchants.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 25, 2022, 04:26:06 PM
AG to the rescue

Quote
    WASHINGTON (AP) — Garland: Justice Department to 'use every tool at our disposal to protect reproductive freedom' after high court ruling.

    — Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) June 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/25/attorney-general-merrick-garland-will-use-all-the-tools-at-the-dojs-disposal-to-protect-reproductive-freedom/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 26, 2022, 12:09:15 AM
The point he was making there was that abortion was not criminalised early in pregnancy, and so the states have no historical power to regulate it before physically being able to feel movement. You’re submitting your own view of what the historical powers should have been, but the point of the reason article is that a power the state didn’t have and that it wasn’t granted in the constitution or otherwise is one it shouldn’t have now.

Wife beating was also not criminalized in most of the early history of the USA (until around the mid 1800 to late 1800s- which is the same time period abortion laws starting getting more restrictive in the USA.)  It was considered a right under common law for a man to beat his wife.

Does this mean beating your wife should be recognized as a right under the 9th Amendment? 

In the same manner, because killing unborn children early in pregnancy was legal in early America, it does not follow that killing unborn children now should be considered protected under the ninth amendment (or any other amendment).

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 26, 2022, 12:16:44 AM
I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.

Abortion until birth is already legal already in these states:

Alaska
Colorado
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
Oregon
Vermont
New York
*Plus, the District of Columbia

Abortion until birth is the official position of NARAL, which has 2.5 million members.  There are a lot of people who feel this way.  It seems like every society has one group of people they treat like trash.  In the USA it is human beings before birth.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 26, 2022, 12:18:33 AM
Wife beating was also not criminalized in most of the early history of the USA (until around the mid 1800 to late 1800s- which is the same time period abortion laws starting getting more restrictive in the USA.)  It was considered a right under common law for a man to beat his wife.

Does this mean beating your wife should be recognized as a right under the 9th Amendment? 

In the same manner, because killing unborn children early in pregnancy was legal in early America, it does not follow that killing unborn children now should be considered protected under the ninth amendment (or any other amendment).



Also, as embryology advanced laws started to tighten the available time frame to abort.  Once it was apparent that the first time the mother felt the baby move meant nothing in particular in terms of the baby becoming human that standard fell quickly.  It’s pretty likely that had the founders understood human fetal development like we do that abortion would have been 100% illegal.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2022, 12:33:24 AM
I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.

That's an extremely poor analogy, given that late term abortion is a regular occurrence in this country, while private ownership of nukes is presumably non-existent (and I presume also illegal).

As a general rule, attempts to both-sides extremism in U.S. politics end in failure.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: JN01 on June 26, 2022, 01:00:38 AM
A very good piece on what’s wrong with the “if it’s not written explicitly in the constitution it’s not a right” theory. There’s a solid argument that what just happened is judicial activism dressed up as “plain reading”:

https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl (https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR2HX5fexdxF-gYcpK6oNQBWXRO8x-ZqVDz-vukDCb8oOD5Nljq8M_BUuXw&fs=e&s=cl)

That reasoning could support an opposite outcome.  SCOTUS could uphold a federal ban on abortion as an unenumerated right of a human fetus to not be killed.  Abortion regulation (among many other issues) rightfully belongs to the states.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bogie on June 26, 2022, 01:09:33 AM
I just want to see what happens when they run up against a case regarding taxpayer grants or subsidies to groups which actually do elective abortions...
 
Because that's the term that most of us really don't like.
 
Elective.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 26, 2022, 01:21:25 AM
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: gunsmith on June 26, 2022, 03:58:23 AM
I generally agree with that position as do i think most people. The problem is that we cannot agree on what constitutes a living human being. Your fellow travelers have attempted to push it to the point that killing an unborn baby up to and including at the moment of birth is OK.
At what point does a human life begin? At the moment of conception is one side of the argument. The other side is apparently some as yet undefined period of time after the birth occurs.
That is what the disagreement comes down to. One side sees it as eliminating an unwanted mass of tissue, the other side sees it as murder.

 Roe V Wade was just a mass of words!
 :cool:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 08:28:45 AM
Side note - pregnancy centers are "fake abortion clinics".  ;/

https://www.kivitv.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturned-what-to-know-and-how-to-spot-anti-abortion-fake-clinics-in-idaho
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 26, 2022, 08:35:25 AM
Roe V Wade was just a mass of words!
 :cool:

Somebody said something
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 26, 2022, 08:52:58 AM
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?
Do you think it is more or less than the number of nuclear weapons in private hands?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on June 26, 2022, 09:18:10 AM
Side note - pregnancy centers are "fake abortion clinics".  ;/

https://www.kivitv.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturned-what-to-know-and-how-to-spot-anti-abortion-fake-clinics-in-idaho

Quote
If you suspect a business to be one of these "fake clinics" advertising abortion in Idaho, you can report one of these businesses through the Idaho Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division or you can file a direct complaint through the Idaho Attorney General's website.

So Planned Parenthood and KIVI News 6 want people to call the AG's office to harass crisis pregnancy centers.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 09:24:19 AM
So Planned Parenthood and KIVI News 6 want people to call the AG's office to harass crisis pregnancy centers.

With "turnabout fair play", perhaps people should report PP clinics to their AGs, since PP constantly calls themselves a "womens health clinic", but pushes abortions and downplays other options - the opposite of what they accuse pregnancy centers of doing.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 26, 2022, 09:43:30 AM
There is an article in the local paper bemoaning that the SCOTUS decision will make it more difficult to pass additional gun control laws at the local and state level.  I see the SAF in Bellevue has already mentioned that in the planned suit against Washington state for the 10 round plus magazine ban.  I sure hope that ban goes away.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 10:16:35 AM
There is an article in the local paper bemoaning that the SCOTUS decision will make it more difficult to pass additional gun control laws at the local and state level.  I see the SAF in Bellevue has already mentioned that in the planned suit against Washington state for the 10 round plus magazine ban.  I sure hope that ban goes away.

On the guns/abortion thing: I can't remember where I read it, but apparently, CA, who has opened the doors to suing the gun industry if you get a jaywalking ticket, or by anyone for anything, is just now looking at passing legislation that would give the abortion industry immunity from lawsuits.

Seems like only one of these strategies could legally apply to both entities.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2022, 10:20:31 AM
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/ Can someone provide actual data on the number of abortions done at birth?

They define late-term as being at 21 weeks or later. And:

Quote
just 1.2% of abortions are performed at or after 21 weeks (Figure 1). This amounts to approximately 5,200 abortions per year occurring at or after 21 weeks, however this is an underestimate as only 33 reporting areas report abortions to the CDC by gestational age.

When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 10:29:15 AM
When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?

How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?

Additionally, CNN has made a list of "states where you can get an abortion". I notice there is a lot of "before the fetus is viable" language, but they never give a number for viability. This list also mentions the states that allow abortion up to birth.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/13/us/abortion-rights-access-states-roe-v-wade/index.html
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2022, 10:32:48 AM
How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?

Additionally, CNN has made a list of "states where you can get an abortion". I notice there is a lot of "before the fetus is viable" language, but they never give a number for viability. This list also mentions the states that allow abortion up to birth.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/13/us/abortion-rights-access-states-roe-v-wade/index.html

True, we don't have exact figures.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 26, 2022, 10:38:35 AM
They define late-term as being at 21 weeks or later. And:

When something happens thousands of times per year, would you call it a regular occurrence?

So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year?  40 weeks gestational age?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: HankB on June 26, 2022, 11:21:25 AM
How can we even know the numbers? I thought some states have privacy laws that would negate reporting that an abortion was performed?
. . .
When it comes to privacy laws, don't they get around that by scrubbing identity information from medical procedure reporting? For example, it's generally easy to get vaccination rates for the Chinese virus broken down by area and even by vaccine manufacturer, but names of the vaccinated aren't included.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 11:34:39 AM
When it comes to privacy laws, don't they get around that by scrubbing identity information from medical procedure reporting? For example, it's generally easy to get vaccination rates for the Chinese virus broken down by area and even by vaccine manufacturer, but names of the vaccinated aren't included.

Could be, but I'm wondering if, even if anonymous, data like at what point the pregnancy was aborted might or might not be included in statistics. Also, a state like CA may say, "no reporting under any circumstances", while another state might say, "anonymous reporting is allowed".
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 12:58:34 PM
I'm not sure how accurate the article is, but it seems to suggest that in Montana, even if they restrict abortions, the MT privacy laws would still allow abortions to take place, because those involved wouldn't have to tell anyone.

https://www.ktvh.com/news/montana-leaders-react-to-abortion-ruling-as-focus-shifts-to-states
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 26, 2022, 01:13:56 PM
Some years ago, I read about some research about why women get late term abortions (I think definition was something like 20+ weeks gestation).
I recall the first two reasons.

The most common reason cited was women who did not know they were pregnant (fat women with irregular cycles, I guess).  I actually went to high school with a guy whose wife supposedly didn't know she was pregnant until she went into labor.  That was the rumor anyway.   :O

The second most common reason for having a late term abortion cited was women who procrastinated getting an abortion.

I oppose elective abortions at any age.  The ones at later ages get me angrier though, as it is easier for me to identify with the baby, and those killing them have no real excuse that they don't realize what they are doing.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 26, 2022, 01:30:28 PM
I oppose elective abortions at any age.  The ones at later ages get me angrier though, as it is easier for me to identify with the baby, and those killing them have no real excuse that they don't realize what they are doing.

This, again in my opinion, is why the "pro-abortion" side likely lost a lot of goodwill from fence-sitters and even their own side of the fence. The closer a fetus looks to a baby versus "a clump of cells", I think it's only natural that people start to say, "Wait just a dang minute here."

As I'm seeing more "what other countries do" stuff in the news, it seems that a large majority of first world countries have an "under 12 weeks" line drawn for "okay" and "not okay".
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2022, 01:31:24 PM
So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year?  40 weeks gestational age?

Where are you getting that from?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 26, 2022, 02:01:48 PM
So you are saying that thousands of abortions at birth occur each year?  40 weeks gestational age?

I’m sure it’s super rare.  Even 1 is too many.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 26, 2022, 10:30:22 PM
Every time things don't go their way the dems start screaming impeachment

Quote
    .@AOC says Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Thomas committed impeachable offenses, " I believe lying under oath is an impeachable offense and violating federal law and not disclosing income from political organizations as Clarence Thomas did is also potentially an impeachable offense." pic.twitter.com/g19DIMJfbM

    — Sarah Reese Jones (@PoliticusSarah) June 26, 2022

AOC calls for impeachment hearings on Justices Kavanaugh, Barrett and Thomas
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/26/aoc-calls-for-impeachment-hearings-on-justices-kavanaugh-barrett-and-thomas/

Have fun reading the comments at https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1541067932586876928
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 09:07:50 AM
(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/Raising_Hell_Small20220625063203.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 09:34:40 AM
I have nothing

Quote
Joel M. Petlin
@Joelmpetlin
Replying to
@scottzipperle
Nothing demonstrates unconditional love for your children more than using them as props at a pro-abortion rally, making them stand next to a sign that says you wish they were never even born
https://twitter.com/Joelmpetlin/status/1541065483352408064/photo/1

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWL24-8WAAAUZjC?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 09:36:41 AM
And another

Quote
"Amanda Herring, who is 32 and *nine months pregnant*, showed up with her 1-year-old son Abraham and the words "Not Yet a Human" written in ink across her swollen belly. Herring, a Jewish educator who said *her due date is Saturday*"
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 10:03:40 AM
And another
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)

Again, their own "look at me, I'm edgy and pushing boundaries" schtick is what is losing them their allies.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 10:20:32 AM
These Euro (and Canadian) leaders with big mouths really need to shut up with their attacks on our Supreme Court.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWKdWl1VEAAUW5a?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
Oops.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p7nlleXvTZA/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 27, 2022, 10:40:35 AM
Again, their own "look at me, I'm edgy and pushing boundaries" schtick is what is losing them their allies.
Yes.  Pro-abortionists had a winner with "safe, legal, and rare".  Wrong as I think even rare abortion is, as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development.  If the left had stuck with their "safe, legal, and rare" line the anti-abortionists would have had a hard time making political headway.  When the official party line became "abortion at any time for any reason" then they lost a lot of people who had some vague idea that at some point a baby must at some point become a baby, and even if they can't imagine that at twelve weeks, they sure as hell know that it happens before the baby pops out.

I hope the anti-abortion side doesn't likewise end up being a victim of its own success ...
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 27, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
I have posted this video before because it is so interesting in my opinion.

Here's a healthy nine week fetus.  It is already obviously a living, extremely small, baby:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q30ao8phNY

Even at seven weeks, the embryo is clearly a living, though odd-looking, baby:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhFNEV6shY

If I remember correctly, the average abortion takes place at eight weeks.  Human development in the womb is incredibly fast.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on June 27, 2022, 10:52:07 AM
Yes.  Pro-abortionists had a winner with "safe, legal, and rare".  Wrong as I think even rare abortion is, as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development.  If the left had stuck with their "safe, legal, and rare" line the anti-abortionists would have had a hard time making political headway.  When the official party line became "abortion at any time for any reason" then they lost a lot of people who had some vague idea that at some point a baby must at some point become a baby, and even if they can't imagine that at twelve weeks, they sure as hell know that it happens before the baby pops out.

I hope the anti-abortion side doesn't likewise end up being a victim of its own success ...
It is going to happen in one of the  states.  It will just generate more lawsuits and more rulings of one kind or another.  It is just as likely the pro-abortion states will lets things get out of hand.  Overconfident activists always always try to push further. 
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 10:54:00 AM
as MillCreek correctly points out, most Americans don't think too much about the issue and are pro-abortion to some fuzzy point largely dependent on their knowledge or ignorance of fetal development.

And to that point, a prediction for the midterms: https://thehill.com/homenews/3537982-democrats-more-likely-to-vote-in-midterms-after-abortion-ruling-poll/

I still think the biggest issue for the midterms will be the economy/inflation/gas prices, but we will see.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on June 27, 2022, 01:11:48 PM
Ben, that chart is out of date already.  Has anyone updated that in the last week or so?  I know that FL is going "yellow" by that chart on Friday, unless the activists get an injunction today.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: charby on June 27, 2022, 02:22:57 PM
Devil's advocate.

In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?

They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 02:30:09 PM
Devil's advocate.

In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?

They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.

Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 02:36:04 PM
Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex

The unspoken fear of many: that someone, somewhere, is having sex outside of a heterosexual Christian marriage and this must be controlled or consequences imposed.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 02:37:26 PM
The unspoken fear of many: that someone, somewhere, is having sex outside of a heterosexual Christian marriage and this must be controlled or consequences imposed.

Wow, just wow
Having sex should mean accepting the responsibilities that may result. Name a culture and/or religion that hasn't tried to enforce this, and for very good reason, to some degree.
Playing "who's your daddy" in the inner city is one of the reasons we at the point where we're at right now.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 02:50:29 PM
Many seem to be firmly welded to the idea that the parasitic mass of cells inside of them needs to be killed so that they can continue to have promiscuous sex without any of the responsibilities that is suppose to accompany sex.

Yup. You're not gonna see many, if any, of the radical pro-abortion women carrying a baby to term to stick it to the man. They want the kid ripped out of them so they can "get back to their lives", not carry a "burden" for nine months. They'll hop in their car and drive to an abortion state.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 02:54:49 PM
Wow, just wow
Having sex should mean accepting the responsibilities that may result. Name a culture and/or religion that hasn't tried to enforce this, and for very good reason, to some degree.
Playing "who's your daddy" in the inner city is one of the reasons we at the point where we're at right now.

And do you think this court decision will fix this?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 03:02:56 PM
I crack up everytime they step on their dicks trying to figure out the "pregnant man" thing.  :rofl:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/27/g4tv-host-gina-darling-apologizes-for-transphobic-comments-after-she-says-men-cant-get-pregnant-in-roe-rant-and-lmao/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 03:06:48 PM
And do you think this court decision will fix this?

It's not the fix but rather a step back in the culture war we been retreating in every time the left pushes. The real fight in the abortion battle is to push back at the idea that on demand abortion is a perfectly acceptable alternative to taking responsibly for your actions and getting back to the idea of the family being the foundation of society. Or is that too Christian for you?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 03:13:47 PM
Yup. You're not gonna see many, if any, of the radical pro-abortion women carrying a baby to term to stick it to the man. They want the kid ripped out of them so they can "get back to their lives", not carry a "burden" for nine months. They'll hop in their car and drive to an abortion state.

And then right afterwards hop into the back of the car and repeat the process over and over again
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 27, 2022, 03:19:47 PM
And then right afterwards hop into the back of the car and repeat the process over and over again
I doubt that describes most women who get or advocate abortions.

In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?
The point of abortion is to provide a quick, convenient answer to a difficult question.  You're barking up the wrong tree if you think abortion proponents are going to put in that kind of work and self sacrifice just to move the needle a little bit in overwhelming the system.  I just don't think there are enough dedicated sociopaths on the pro-abortion side to do that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 03:27:27 PM
Devil's advocate.

In the states where abortion will more than likely have a total ban, what would stop pro-choice women from purposely getting pregnant and abandoning the baby at birth at the hospital under the safe haven laws?

They could effectively overwhelm the system if enough of them did this.

Having had professional experience with the 'safe haven' concept, the social service and adoption agencies would be absolutely thrilled for the uptick of babies to place.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 03:34:43 PM
Well now we have a court fight

Quote
A judge in Louisiana temporarily blocked three state laws that would ban virtually all abortions on Monday.

The abortion bans were set to take effect if the Supreme Court ever overturned Roe v. Wade, which it did on Friday. Several states across the country have enacted similar laws, known as "trigger laws."

Judge blocks Louisiana abortion 'trigger law' from taking effect
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-blocks-louisiana-abortion-trigger-law-from-taking-effect
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zahc on June 27, 2022, 03:36:04 PM
What is safe haven?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on June 27, 2022, 03:48:31 PM
What is safe haven?

The group of laws that let someone leave a baby in certain places with no questions asked and no consequences. Usually hospitals, fire stations and similar places.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: BobR on June 27, 2022, 04:41:28 PM
This may be a good time to be a urologist or a GYN. There may be a more widespread uptick in business. If getting an abortion becomes more difficult maybe we shouldn't be making a new human to begin with.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-abortion/scotus-abortion-decision-prompts-increase-in-requests-for-vasectomies-getting-tubes-tied-in-central-texas/


bob
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 04:50:42 PM
If getting an abortion becomes more difficult maybe we shouldn't be making a new human to begin with.

Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 27, 2022, 05:14:18 PM
Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.

You would think this point does not have to be spelled out, but apparently it does.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 05:57:30 PM
Or just getting it through the heads of numbskulls of both sexes that abortions aren't the same as birth control pills or condoms. Trying to push the idea that they are equal is another reason the radicals lost their fight.

You must be one of those extreme far right fascists we keep hearing about
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 27, 2022, 06:05:19 PM
You must be one of those extreme far right fascists we keep hearing about

No, I'm ULTRA MAGA!  (wore the shirt at costco today and got three compliments)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 27, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
No, I'm ULTRA MAGA!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/N4hHsZoD3edqw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: zxcvbob on June 27, 2022, 06:37:40 PM
I was listening to NPR in my truck today and of course they were talking about abortion.  One thing they mentioned was conservatives now want the Supreme Court to outlaw abortion.  They were talking to a young woman who is against abortion and kinda implied that she was a freak or something because abortion is a sacrament.  (they didn't say that outloud)

A national ban would be a nice outcome, but wasn't the whole point of the recent decision that Roe v. Wade violated the 10th Amendment?  The Constitution is silent on the issue, therefore it belongs to the states (or the people.)  It would be dishonest for the court to take up the issue again.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 27, 2022, 06:46:38 PM
And another
https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1540510373845110784

Quote
"Amanda Herring, who is 32 and *nine months pregnant*, showed up with her 1-year-old son Abraham and the words "Not Yet a Human" written in ink across her swollen belly. Herring, a Jewish educator who said *her due date is Saturday*"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWD-AfeWQAE2uBU?format=png&name=small)

Hardly surprising. The traditional Jewish belief is that [human] life begins with the first breath.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 28, 2022, 08:43:04 AM
Oops.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p7nlleXvTZA/hqdefault.jpg)
;/  I watched the video.  She clearly stumbled over her words and was obviously not trying to say "white life".  News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either. 

I suspect the number of pro-choice people who hold that opinion is a small segment that is not indicative of the beliefs of pro-choice people as a whole.  Probably much like the number of 2nd Amendment supporters who interpret it as including the right to own nuclear weapons.  As with so many things, the ability of such people to gain attention to their beliefs is greater than their actual numbers, in these social media days.
This statement has been bugging me the past few days, and I don't think it is in any way defensible. 

First off, I understand that you were looking at the populace as a whole and not specific parties, but let's use political parties and their surveys and focus groups to pressure test your assertion.

I have never heard any major politician or candidate support the 2A as covering nuclear weapons.  I'm not even sure the modern Libertarian candidates would hold to that.  On the other hand, just about all national-level Democrat politicians when asked their position on late term abortion either deflect or basically say: "Whatever the mother wants".

Looking back at the 2020 Democratic candidates opinions on late term abortion, I couldn't find any that would say that they oppose it today.  Some of the older candidates have a history of anti-abortion positions, but all had evolved to the point that as of 2020 none were fundamentally opposed late term abortion.  A few try to deflect (as you do) and say that it isn't a thing and shut up we don't need to worry about it, but most just said that it should be up to the mother.  If anything, support for unlimited abortion is a shibboleth for modern Democrats, whereas it isn't even hard to find Republicans who support assault weapons bans.  It is unthinkable to find a major politician supporting private ownership of nuclear weapons.

Whatever the overall perspective of people who have any pro-abortion views, it would appear that Democrats believe that there are enough people in their party who support late term abortions that they cannot oppose it.  In contrast, I couldn't find any national-level politician or major candidate that supports private ownership of nuclear weapons.  I think a more honest comparison would be the number of pro-abortionists who believe in late term abortion to the number of people who believe that you should be able to own some sort of gun who also believe the second amendment covers "assault weapons".
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 08:45:50 AM
News flash: Obama didn't really think there were 57 states either. 


He meant genders.
The number has gone up somewhat since
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 28, 2022, 09:05:32 AM
Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 28, 2022, 09:34:20 AM
Cordex, ponder how the fallacy of hasty generalization/fallacy of composition applies to my original statement, not your expansion to political parties and their platforms.
My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.

Have I understood you correctly?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2022, 10:13:16 AM
Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up  in National Parks.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 10:24:03 AM
Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up  in National Parks.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/

I thought National Parks were racist?

Is it me or has she been extra crazy since they removed her image from the butter box?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 10:27:08 AM
Speaking of crazy

Quote
    It shouldn't be harder to obtain an abortion than an AR-15.

    — Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 27, 2022

Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2022, 10:30:12 AM
Speaking of crazy

Hillary Clinton goes off the rails on not-so-thinly veiled racist rant about ‘person of grievance’ Clarence Thomas [video]
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/28/hillary-clinton-goes-off-the-rails-on-not-so-thinly-veiled-racist-rant-about-person-of-grievance-clarence-thomas-video/

Uppity black man!

As the comments suggested, she is one totally self-unaware nutjob.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 28, 2022, 10:46:44 AM
My understanding of what you were saying is as follows:
1. Anyone who believes that any abortion is okay is somewhat pro-abortion
2. There are a lot of people who meet the definition above.
3. Among that very large group, the number of people who support late-term abortion is so small as to be comparable to the number of 2A supporters who believe that nuclear weapons are covered by the 2A.

Have I understood you correctly?

No, you have not.  I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age).  I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective.  Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.

See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351

https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365

From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms?  What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 10:48:56 AM
No one needs more than 10 nukes
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 28, 2022, 10:53:35 AM
No one needs more than 10 nukes

Or a MIRV.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Strings on June 28, 2022, 11:13:12 AM
I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).

I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Boomhauer on June 28, 2022, 11:58:10 AM
I've always held (and argued on here) that abortion should be allowed in limited scope (rape/incest, massive detected defect in the child, VERY limited "birth control failed"). All of these can be addressed in the early stages of pregnancy (or the morning after pill).

I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it

That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.

Push abhorrent ideas and you’re eventually going to get some serious pushback from the people who are tired of being run over.

The “in your face” and “we’re gonna groom and *expletive deleted*ck up  your kids” crowd of the trannies/drag queens/allies should take notice
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RocketMan on June 28, 2022, 12:13:38 PM
Or a MIRV.

Or more than a 50 kiloton yield per weapon.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 28, 2022, 12:27:08 PM
There are two major sides to this issue. Both side each have their spectrum of belief. And, the key element is the question of "When does life begin. when does a living being become vested in human rights?"
One side runs from life begins at conception to life begins at some nebulous point with numerous key points with a degree of variability across the board and that killing the unborn is murder which is evil
The other side runs from "it is just an inconvenient mass of cells" until it is born to even after it's born we can still have a discussion about aborting it after delivery with a degree of variability across the board and it's just a matter of women's healthcare and nobody else's business.
Each side has their opinion, whether based in their faith or their understanding of science. The only real arbitor is going to be whatever creator there may or may not be.

I doubt more than a tiny fraction on either side will be changing their minds during this debate. Personally I'd like to see this thread and the other on the topic closed since we have all pretty well aired our positions and continued name calling and insults do not serve this forum well.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 28, 2022, 12:31:29 PM
Abortion billboards appearing in California, possibly funded with taxpayer money:

https://www.kusi.com/are-taxpayer-dollars-funding-pro-abortion-billboards-in-california/

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 28, 2022, 12:34:21 PM
That very vocal minority and the Planned Parenthood baby chop shop stuff is the very reason this thread exists.

Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops.  There is no middle ground.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 28, 2022, 12:49:11 PM
No, you have not.  I have an issue with those who conflate all late term abortions (21 weeks or more) being the same as abortions at the time of birth (40 weeks gestational age).  I realize that to many people, they are all one and the same philosophically, but there is a difference from the healthcare perspective.
Ah.  From the healthcare perspective, then, what limit would you prefer be placed on abortions?  Of course I expect that you distinguish between elective and medically necessary, as well as make distinctions between physical and mental health justifications.

Also, I, and probably the majority of American citizens do not believe 'any abortion is OK' as a black and white statement.
Just to be clear, in point #1 I was trying to convey that anyone who believes that abortion should be allowed under particular circumstances might be considered pro-abortion.  I thought you had (correctly) stated in one of these threads that most Americans are pro-abortion to some extent under some circumstances, and was simply trying to reiterate that point, not make some jab about the majority being okay with all abortion.  I apologize if I failed to properly communicate that.

See also: https://www.sacurrent.com/news/bad-takes-the-rabid-right-believes-the-second-amendment-has-no-limits-not-even-nukes-27777351

https://www.newsweek.com/candidate-running-primary-elise-stefanik-says-people-should-able-own-nuke-1606617

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-legalize-recreational-nuclear-weapons-0e0861b0-bfdc-480c-887e-195e1a20b365
Thanks for that.  Okay, you have certainly found a couple of politicians who do support ownership of private nuclear weapons - one who was a former vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas but as far as I can tell has never actually served in office, and the other a member of the House of Representatives who also calls the idea crazy. 

Oh, and a failed change.org petition that is likely with less than 300 signatures and also reads like a joke.

I concede that such politicians exist, although if that was the best you could find they are clearly rarer than hen's teeth.

From the above, should we generalize that all Second Amendment supporters are in favor of the right to bear nuclear arms?  What part of 'shall not be infringed' is unclear?
First of all, let me be clear that I agree that  most people who are pro-abortion (including those who have had or are involved in performing abortions) do not like the idea of late term abortion, full-term abortion, partial birth abortion, or anything like that.  However, your allegation that people who are in support of abortion up to the point of birth are equal in number or percentage or whatever comparison you want to those who support private ownership of nuclear weapons is still preposterous.

Couldn't find the raw data, but the Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll shows 6% who believe that abortion should be permitted "up until the birth of the child".
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/446367-poll-nearly-half-of-americans-say-supreme-court-should-uphold-roe-v-wade/

This COSA poll (https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/COSA-Abortion-Full-Report-0511.pdf) shows that 11.6% of respondents and 18.8% of Democrats support abortion "up until the moment of birth, including partial birth" but that poll didn't have any option between second trimester and the up to point of birth, so I think that is a weak poll.

If you need me to provide some quotes from mainstream pro-abortion politicians in support of the idea that a woman should be able to kill her baby up to the point of birth (not generic late term abortions) I'd be happy to do so.

Because of the extrapolation here that if you do not oppose all abortions under all circumstances, you are a supporter of abortion on demand at the time of birth and baby chop shops.  There is no middle ground.
???  I know you are trying to play the "reasonable centrist" role, but I'm not sure you understand your opposition.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 01:06:00 PM
Amazon employees want Amazon to crease doing business in states where abortion is illegal and are requesting time off to grieve the SC ruling.

Cope and SEETHE: Woke Amazon employees demand Amazon cease doing business in pro-life states PLUS time off to ‘grieve’ Roe
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/cope-and-seethe-woke-amazon-employees-demand-amazon-cease-doing-business-in-pro-life-states-plus-time-off-to-grieve-roe/

The letter was edited to add more inclusive language

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1541557369179619331/photo/1
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWS2QIvXgAEHuYD?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 01:23:21 PM
Quote
According to the new law, every unborn child being brought to a Texas abortion clinic will be surgically issued a tiny AR-15, which will be placed in his tiny hand. Once a buzzer goes off, the abortionist will have only a few seconds to complete the abortion without being shot. Babies unable to grasp the tiny rifle due to disability will be allowed to call Kyle Rittenhouse to defend them.

Compromise: Texas Says Abortion Can Remain Legal But The Baby Gets An AR-15 To Defend Himself
https://babylonbee.com/news/compromise-texas-says-abortion-can-remain-legal-but-the-baby-gets-an-ar-15-to-defend-himself
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2022, 01:25:05 PM
I saw this morning that Amazon, along with dozens of other big corps, are paying in full for relocation for employees from restrictive to non-restrictive abortion states and travel expenses for out of state abortions for employees.

I'm wondering if they will also offer relocation fees for employees to move to states that restrict abortions, if that is the employee's belief?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Pocahontas wants abortion tents set up  in National Parks.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/06/28/heap-big-crazy-elizabeth-warren-pushes-biden-to-set-up-planned-parenthood-outposts-tents-on-edges-of-national-parks/

I could see a fight starting up over who came up with the idea first

Quote
    ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: “Open abortion clinics on federal lands in red states right now!”

    “Right now!” pic.twitter.com/sFvl101mSt

    — RNC Research (@RNCResearch) June 28, 2022
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/28/aoc-shrieks-at-president-biden-to-implement-the-babiest-of-the-babiest-of-the-baby-steps-to-abort-babies-in-red-states/

I say let them fight
In Thunderdome!
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 28, 2022, 01:30:40 PM
Amazon employees want Amazon to crease doing business in states where abortion is illegal and are requesting time off to grieve the SC ruling.

That makes me want to search for the most anti-abortion organization on Amazon Smile (if they even list such) and switch to that.

But yeah, Amazon, definitely prohibit online sales in all states that have abortion restrictions, including the rural and remote customers who you always talked about serving when no one else would.

This is as stupid as some Hollywood celebrity I saw a clip of this morning talking about how CA and NY should be telling "that red stuff in the middle" what to do, because they're in charge.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 28, 2022, 01:35:08 PM
The sad thing is, they could probably have an effect on red state abortion policy if they shut down the distribution centers here.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: dogmush on June 28, 2022, 01:40:52 PM
Are Sen Warren and Rep Ocassio-Cortez under the impression that just because you are on federally owned land you are exempt from following State and Local laws?  Because that is not strictly speaking true.  The DOD spends a lot of time and effort having to comply with State laws on our bases.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Boomhauer on June 28, 2022, 01:58:16 PM
I saw this morning that Amazon, along with dozens of other big corps, are paying in full for relocation for employees from restrictive to non-restrictive abortion states and travel expenses for out of state abortions for employees.

I'm wondering if they will also offer relocation fees for employees to move to states that restrict abortions, if that is the employee's belief?

Snuffing a fetus out is a lot cheaper than paying for it for 26 years..it’s just good business.

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on June 28, 2022, 02:21:21 PM
Snuffing a fetus out is a lot cheaper than paying for it for 26 years..it’s just good business.

And you can make a buck selling the baby pieces to the medical industry.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 28, 2022, 02:22:27 PM
I talk with many on the left: support for late-term abortion is incredibly small, and rabidly vocal. Very similar to the trans bathroom issue years ago: most of the (at the time, tiny) trans community weren't the ones raising hell about it

It is small, but not that small.  I read the other day that those that support no time limits on abortion are somewhere between 10-20% of the population (I forget exactly).  Lots of politicians are in there.  Just the other day that is what the gov of NYC said he wanted.  That is the position of NARAL, with millions of members.

Most importantly, right now there are no limits on abortion until birth in these states:

 Alaska, Colorado, District of Columbia, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 28, 2022, 03:24:18 PM
Extremism on the left is mainstream. Extremism on the right, to the extent it actually exists, is fringe.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 28, 2022, 06:05:34 PM
"If HE'S denied an abortion"

Quote
    "This is not an empty threat. It's a promise. There is no peaceful end to this"

    A Minnesota trans furry using the alias "Corvynn Carstensen" promises to attack the U.S. Supreme Court in a suicide bombing if he's denied an abortion.https://t.co/IHTrdOdEQ7 https://t.co/DDx6TA0apz pic.twitter.com/rC8AFWsYtK

    — Andy Ngô 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) June 27, 2022

Then he claims he's joking.
I can't tell anymore.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/28/report-minnesota-trans-furry-promises-to-suicide-bomb-the-supreme-court-if-hes-ever-denied-an-abortion/

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 28, 2022, 11:39:52 PM
Well, my days of taking him as a joke are definitely coming to a middle.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 29, 2022, 12:54:31 PM
No comment:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 29, 2022, 01:09:18 PM
No comment:

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=sm

I watched video of a local protest / counter-protest that just happened here. Let's just say the average physical appearance between the two sides was notable. I wouldn't wish some of those purple hairs on my worst enemy.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: sumpnz on June 29, 2022, 01:22:20 PM
No comment:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)


That is a self correcting issue.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 29, 2022, 01:38:10 PM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/Dead_Whale.JPG_EzMisg1.jpg)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ben on June 29, 2022, 02:33:05 PM
The comments are gold, Jerry! Gold!  :rofl:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/06/29/dana-loesch-and-mary-katharine-ham-go-there-in-response-to-jane-fondas-latest-on-guns-and-abortion/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 29, 2022, 02:43:51 PM
OMG!  Babylon Bee could have written that headline :rofl:

does anyone have VIP access?

David Hogg’s ‘not going to have kids in a country’ where abortion’s restricted, warns of US ‘having a brain drain problem’ if others follow his lead
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/david-hogg-says-hes-not-going-to-have-kids-in-a-country-where-abortions-restricted-warns-of-us-having-a-brain-drain-problem-if-others-follow-his-lead/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on June 29, 2022, 02:55:04 PM
But this isn't funny

Quote
    The website the White House highlighted includes information for minors, children "15 or younger," on how they can bypass parental notification laws. https://t.co/7vbKofIY7K

    — Philip Melanchthon Wegmann (@PhilipWegmann) June 28, 2022

Trying find find that section

Joe Biden’s WH steers public to abortion advice website featuring instructions for minor girls who don’t want their parents to know
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/joe-bidens-wh-steers-public-to-abortion-advice-website-featuring-instructions-for-minor-girls-who-dont-want-their-parents-to-know/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 29, 2022, 02:59:01 PM
OMG!  Babylon Bee could have written that headline :rofl:

does anyone have VIP access?

David Hogg’s ‘not going to have kids in a country’ where abortion’s restricted, warns of US ‘having a brain drain problem’ if others follow his lead
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/06/29/david-hogg-says-hes-not-going-to-have-kids-in-a-country-where-abortions-restricted-warns-of-us-having-a-brain-drain-problem-if-others-follow-his-lead/

Now that I've gotten the beverage out of my nose...

Doesn't he know that women will be forced to give birth? And he's going to assert his cishet white male privilege by not having children?

Guess he's not an ally.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on June 29, 2022, 03:00:22 PM
Doesn't he know that women will be forced to give birth? And he's going to assert his cishet white male privilege by not having children?
Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity.  Let him roll with it.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 29, 2022, 03:40:39 PM
Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity.  Let him roll with it.

Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on June 29, 2022, 04:33:46 PM
Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?

  :rofl:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: RoadKingLarry on June 29, 2022, 05:05:37 PM
No comment:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWLE-8mWQAEQ2-f?format=jpg&name=small)

Not with a stolen dick.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Pb on June 29, 2022, 09:58:06 PM
Aren't you worried that Hogg’s considerable brain power will not be passed down to a future generation?

Hogg is a homosexual; hopefully future generations will be spared his progeny.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Doggy Daddy on June 30, 2022, 01:28:30 AM
Dude, now is not the time to try to talk someone out of chastity.  Let him roll with it.

No deadnaming!   Chastity is now Chaz.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MillCreek on June 30, 2022, 10:00:11 AM
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/men-rush-to-get-vasectomies-after-roe-ruling/

Huh, I need to ask our urology department at work if we have seen a spike.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on July 01, 2022, 08:43:55 PM
Lead this is balloon. Balloon this is lead

Democrats really upping their pro-America midterm messaging game (it’s now been deleted).
https://twitter.com/ThePowersThatBe/status/1542986099274010625
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: WLJ on July 01, 2022, 08:59:42 PM
So stunning, so brave.

Quote
    .@AOC says she is getting her nails done as an act of “resistance” post-Dobbs. pic.twitter.com/jqFA1PyhJk

    — John Gage (@johnrobertgage) July 2, 2022
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/01/aoc-shares-her-personal-act-of-reclamation-in-response-to-scotus-overturning-roe/
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 01, 2022, 09:20:39 PM
I'm no beautician, but isn't red a fairly popular choice for nails? Sorta like painting your Model T black if you're against prohibition.

Red should match her handmaid's robes, though.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Angel Eyes on July 01, 2022, 10:18:56 PM
Her fingernails are in a red state.


ETA:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWoGYBpXoAMMA5P?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 01, 2022, 10:26:23 PM
Lead this is balloon. Balloon this is lead

Democrats really upping their pro-America midterm messaging game (it’s now been deleted).
https://twitter.com/ThePowersThatBe/status/1542986099274010625

Check out their explanation.
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2022/07/01/pima-county-dems-explains-why-it-shared-the-f-the-4th-flyer/

It's basically: "We fully support this America-hating event, but we apologize for revealing how anti-American it's going to be."
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 01, 2022, 10:35:58 PM
Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/

Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Jim147 on July 01, 2022, 10:46:43 PM
Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/



All democrats should be as mad. RBG warned them it would be overturned because it was crap. When the dem's had the supermajority what did they do? Shoved unaffordable healthcare up our butts. I wouldn't be sick all the time if I still had my plan I had before that.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: MechAg94 on July 01, 2022, 11:15:30 PM
Lefty goes on vulgarity-laden tirade, berating the limousine liberals for sending him fund-raising letters.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/07/01/nancy-pelosis-strategy-of-terrifying-liberals-into-sending-dems-money-may-not-be-as-brilliant-as-she-thinks/
I get text messages that are supposedly from Republicans like that.  I delete them.  I have no idea who they are actually from.  I don't want to tap any links.  Probably the same outfit.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 02, 2022, 12:33:48 AM
All democrats should be as mad. RBG warned them it would be overturned because it was crap. When the dem's had the supermajority what did they do? Shoved unaffordable healthcare up our butts. I wouldn't be sick all the time if I still had my plan I had before that.

And RBG was warned she should retire while her friends were in charge.

It's insane how upset these people are about losing their absolute right to unlimited prenatal bloodshed.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: cordex on July 02, 2022, 01:38:45 AM
My company sent out an Independence Day newsletter.   We received a number of positive responses to the article about the impact signing the declaration had on some of the founding fathers. And two complaints about how terrible and tone deaf it was because abortion.
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: HeroHog on July 02, 2022, 03:18:54 AM
My company sent out an Independence Day newsletter.   We received a number of positive responses to the article about the impact signing the declaration had on some of the founding fathers. And two complaints about how terrible and tone deaf it was because abortion.

YGBFSM!!!  :mad:
Title: Re: Being reported the Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade
Post by: kgbsquirrel on July 02, 2022, 04:00:27 AM
And RBG was warned she should retire while her friends were in charge.

It's insane how upset these people are about losing their absolute right to unlimited prenatal bloodshed.

I'm sure some survivors of the Nazi party were sad they could no longer kill the unwanted on demand too.  Party's over.