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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on May 19, 2022, 08:19:52 PM

Title: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on May 19, 2022, 08:19:52 PM
Looks like nearly $5 million of any student loan forgiveness would occur right in the White House.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/05/19/at-least-30-senior-white-house-staffers-have-student-loan-balances-making-loan-forgiveness-personal-for-biden/
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Jim147 on May 19, 2022, 09:44:22 PM
I love when someone making high six figures and driving a Tesla want's my family to pay off their debt.

We paid ours off years ago.

I want someone to ask if this is a onetime vote buy or if this will be an every two year thing?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on May 19, 2022, 09:54:25 PM
Quote
    NEW: As Biden weighs student loan forgiveness, disclosures show at least 30 of his top aides have student debt, totaling as much as $4.7 million https://t.co/t622cc19Uz

    — Bloomberg Politics (@bpolitics) May 19, 2022

$4,700,00 / 30 = $156,666 each
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 19, 2022, 10:02:32 PM
$4,700,00 / 30 = $156,666 each

Boy, they sure make it easy to follow the money.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Bogie on May 19, 2022, 11:21:07 PM
And that sounds about like 4-6 years in the Ivy League...  The private schools near me are in the $50k/year range... And most of the kids are raving aholes.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Lennyjoe on May 20, 2022, 09:14:38 AM
I don’t want them to pay it off.  We signed up for our student loans and are responsible to pay them back.  Not taxpayers dollars! 
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on May 20, 2022, 09:18:32 AM
$4,700,00 / 30 = $156,666 each

Apparently one of them has $500K in student debt. I would say, "What moron goes a half million dollars in to student loan debt?" except that their fiscal irresponsibility is likely going to be rewarded.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on May 20, 2022, 09:24:15 AM
Apparently one of them has $500K in student debt. I would say, "What moron goes a half million dollars in to student loan debt?" except that their fiscal irresponsibility is likely going to be rewarded.

A degree in Transgender Feminism And it's Role In Fighting White Privilege in the Middle Ages isn't cheap.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: zxcvbob on November 11, 2022, 08:07:06 PM
Is this the most recent thread on this topic?  (I think so)  Anyway, a federal judge in Texas has killed the whole thing.  I wonder if that was the plan all along?  This was just a ruse to buy people's votes and then renege on the deal right after the election.  Whoever thought of that (you know it wasn't Biden) is a criminal mastermind.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Bogie on November 12, 2022, 08:55:33 PM
All those poor folks who were convicted on federal pot smoking laws too...
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on November 13, 2022, 08:37:24 AM
The whole system is a fraudulent scam.

The loans shouldn't be paid off by taxpayers, they should be cancelled outright. The schools should be forced to eat the loss. Education costs ballooned as soon as this system was adopted. It is a ponzi scheme scam and the students have been defrauded by the schools and government.

Why do you want to perpetrate this horrible system of credentialism and debt slavery?

Let it burn down.

Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: cordex on November 13, 2022, 09:13:25 AM
The loans shouldn't be paid off by taxpayers, they should be cancelled outright. The schools should be forced to eat the loss. Education costs ballooned as soon as this system was adopted. It is a ponzi scheme scam and the students have been defrauded by the schools and government.
The schools have already been paid. Canceling the loans is the same as taxpayers footing the bills.

I have no love for either the corrupt higher education system or the corrupt government which conspires with it, but you are making a mistake in failing to attribute any responsibility to the people who willingly chose to take on massive, unsecured debt.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on November 13, 2022, 09:26:31 AM
The schools have already been paid. Canceling the loans is the same as taxpayers footing the bills.

I have no love for either the corrupt higher education system or the corrupt government which conspires with it, but you are making a mistake in failing to attribute any responsibility to the people who willingly chose to take on massive, unsecured debt.

The whole current economy is based upon a foundation of unsecured debt.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on November 13, 2022, 10:15:57 AM
Update the system: Cap federal student loan interest rates at the bare minimum to pay for administering the program.  .gov should not be making money on this program. If a student hasn't paid off a federal student loan in 10 years from graduation day, (or day the loan goes into repayment status), the loan becomes eligible for discharge through bankruptcy.

Any loan that is so discharged, will be paid back to the taxpayers in full from the schools endowment, or if they run out from the school's budget.  School must agree to these terms for their students to be eligible for student loans.

This would so a couple things. It would incentivize making sure the money a degree makes and what it costs are similar. Students would be better off paying off their loans, but if they really get in over their heads on a feminist basket weaving degree, they can eventually get out from under those loans. And schools would be incentivized to make sure their students make enough money to pay off their education in a reasonable time.

.Gov's goal of making loans easy to get for poorer Americans is also met, without taxpayers holding the bag.

If a school wants to charge $500,000 for an unmarketable degree, they still can. They just can't use federal loan dollars to finance it. I'm sure some prestigious,  private schools will do that.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: cordex on November 13, 2022, 11:00:36 AM
The whole current economy is based upon a foundation of unsecured debt.
And?  Abuse of that is something you want to reward?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 13, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
How’s about rather than reforming how the .gov administers student loans they just stop making the loans.  Leave it up to banks and their underwriters.  Regulation to prevent racial or political discrimination should be the limit of government involvement.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on November 13, 2022, 01:04:04 PM
How’s about rather than reforming how the .gov administers student loans they just stop making the loans.  Leave it up to banks and their underwriters.  Regulation to prevent racial or political discrimination should be the limit of government involvement.

In theory,  but the federal student loans system exists because banks and underwriters weren't making those loans.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 13, 2022, 01:15:20 PM
In theory,  but the federal student loans system exists because banks and underwriters weren't making those loans.

In other words, private enterprise declined to create the kind of crushing debt that's ruining everybody's lives. It took government to do that.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 13, 2022, 01:28:57 PM
In theory,  but the federal student loans system exists because banks and underwriters weren't making those loans.

I’m not seeing the problem.

I mean seriously.  The massive inflation in college tuition is directly due to the easy credit extended to students.  Many of whom, frankly, shouldn’t have ever gone to college.  Whether because their career field shouldn’t require a degree, or because they don’t have the academic chops for what college should be doesn’t matter.  Before Uncle Sugar got involved college (at least at state schools) could be paid for by a single income family with maybe a part time job for the kid and a small scholarship or two.  Bit more for a good private school but even middle-upper incomes could hack it for their kids.  And in those days maybe 20% of kids went to college at all.  Less than 1% of the population got a PhD.  And if you had such credentials it really was a passport to high paying jobs and middle-upper or better income.

Now?  A bachelors has basically replaced the high school diploma in terms of ability to get a decent paying job and in terms of actual education for that matter.  And the costs are crippling each generation worse than the one before.

Yeah, doing this would require returning primary and secondary education to the quality of the early 20th century. 
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on November 13, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Ok.  What's your plan for lowering college costs, convincing employers they don't actually want a 4 year degree for entry level, and raising the quality of primary and secondary education in US public schools?

I don't disagree with anything you've stated, but we need to start lowering the cost of postsecondary education, without saddling US taxpayers with the cost.  Making schools have a financial stake in the employability of their  students is a way that *might* actually get through the swamp and DOE. I don't see trying to convince 80% of America their special snowflake ain't smart enough for college as having even that small chance.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Pb on November 13, 2022, 09:29:56 PM
Ok.  What's your plan for lowering college costs, convincing employers they don't actually want a 4 year degree for entry level, and raising the quality of primary and secondary education in US public schools?

My plan for lowering college costs:

Eliminate all federal government involvement in college, especially subsidizing purchase of college tuition and free money for grants.  Millions of substandard students will be unable to pay for college.  They will quit college or be unable to start.  Colleges are full of people that would be more use to society digging ditches than learning to hate white people.

The crappiest, most money wasting colleges will go out of business and stop pissing away taxpayer money.  Good riddance.

Those that survive will have to cut their obscene levels of worthless administrators and other garbage employees.  Tuition will fall like a rock over a cliff, since students will actually have to pay the tuition themselves.  Colleges will have to stop building luxury buildings and pissing away money on worthless programs.  They can just teach people classes that will enable them to get a paying job.

Before the government intervened to help people "afford" college, my parents paid all their tuition by working part time for minimum wage, and graduated with zero debt.  Subsidizing the purchase of things makes their prices rise, imagine that.



Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on November 14, 2022, 11:11:28 AM
Some of the problem lies with the 3rd party student loan servicers that the feds have contracted. Mostly not following the letter of the law and placing lenders into forbearance or deferment (letting interest build up). The third party servicers not keeping track of payments to be applied towards the 20/25 year forgiveness or 10 years of public service. Both of those items were put into law by congress so don't blame JB.

I'm guess that is why a bunch of 3rd party servicers didn't renew their contracts when things started changing to student loans due to Covid under Trump and Biden.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: JN01 on November 14, 2022, 03:11:20 PM
In other words, private enterprise declined to create the kind of crushing debt that's ruining everybody's lives. It took government to do that.

It is what they do best.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Hawkmoon on November 14, 2022, 09:47:55 PM
I'll just drop this here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/11/14/bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan-kept-on-hold-as-court-sides-with-gop-states/?sh=4e2ebded2d4e

The Biden student loan forgiveness plan isn't gaining a lot of traction in federal courts.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Angel Eyes on November 15, 2022, 12:47:09 PM

The Biden student loan forgiveness plan isn't gaining a lot of traction in federal courts.

That doesn't really matter.  This was about buying votes for the midterms, and it apparently succeeded.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on November 15, 2022, 12:47:43 PM
That doesn't really matter.  This was about buying votes for the midterms, and it apparently succeeded.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Expect it to come up again summer/fall of 2024
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on November 15, 2022, 01:11:57 PM
That doesn't really matter.  This was about buying votes for the midterms, and it apparently succeeded.

Yep. And they fall for it every time. Of course so do we when it's our guy.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: RocketMan on November 15, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
That doesn't really matter.  This was about buying votes for the midterms, and it apparently succeeded.

I doubt it had much of an affect on the election because the people it was aimed at were going to vote Democrat for the most part anyway.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on November 15, 2022, 02:35:59 PM
I doubt it had much of an affect on the election because the people it was aimed at were going to vote Democrat for the most part anyway.

Well, I think the way to phrase that is, "tend to vote democrat when they vote". It's all about big enough bribes to get them off the couch and to the voting booth. This was a pretty big bribe.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on November 17, 2022, 02:20:18 PM
I'm guessing there is going to be another 3 or 6 month extension on student loan repayment. I'm thinking this because of the recent court decisions and I haven't gotten any notice from the my loan servicer that payments are set to resume in Jan. I have less than 2 years left on my student loan repayments.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on November 22, 2022, 10:57:43 PM
Biden just paused payments until June or 60 days after the forgiveness plan is legally resolved.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 23, 2022, 10:21:43 AM
Biden just paused payments until June or 60 days after the forgiveness plan is legally resolved.

Soooo, if the courts stretch this out for years does that “automatically” extend the pause?  Or is the pause until June, unless the courts resolve it before April?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on November 23, 2022, 10:26:59 AM
Soooo, if the courts stretch this out for years does that “automatically” extend the pause?  Or is the pause until June, unless the courts resolve it before April?

Every news article I read was equally confusing.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: zxcvbob on November 23, 2022, 11:42:14 AM
Payments are paused for an indefinite (or unintelligible) period, but is the interest still accruing?  I would assume so.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: K Frame on November 23, 2022, 11:48:32 AM
Interest is racist and predatory.

Can't have none of that, now.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 23, 2022, 12:10:04 PM
Payments are paused for an indefinite (or unintelligible) period, but is the interest still accruing?  I would assume so.

Interest rates at least had been dropped to 0%.  I assume that hasn’t changed.

At this point, I think an R candidate could probably get a lot of votes by just promising to make the 0% interest rate permanent but otherwise require repayments resume.  Bill it as a responsible end to overly stretched out pause in payments with a net benefit that’s less punishing to the taxpayers than Biden’s forgiveness.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on November 23, 2022, 12:14:44 PM
At this point, I think an R candidate could probably get a lot of votes by just promising to make the 0% interest rate permanent but otherwise require repayments resume.  Bill it as a responsible end to overly stretched out pause in payments with a net benefit that’s less punishing to the taxpayers than Biden’s forgiveness.

Given best (and worst) case scenarios in the current political climate, I could live with that. People not accepting responsibility for their $300,000 in loans  gender studies PhD actions still galls me, but they'd at least be paying back principal.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 23, 2022, 12:43:22 PM
Given best (and worst) case scenarios in the current political climate, I could live with that. People not accepting responsibility for their $300,000 in loans  gender studies PhD actions still galls me, but they'd at least be paying back principal.

Yeah.  Don’t get me wrong.  I’m still not saying that’s a good idea, just a way to get a lot of votes.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: MillCreek on February 28, 2023, 05:56:28 PM
https://apnews.com/article/student-loan-forgiveness-supreme-court-hearing-2128da75fc27ff3bcc0c3804ebd98aa7?user_email=19f555fd23278ec6115c0245275d5f519fd6e97f4369070b751671a2e63209d6&utm_medium=Afternoon_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=Afternoon%20Wire%20Feb.%2028&utm_term=Afternoon%20Wire

The AP is reporting that SCOTUS is not enthused about student loan foregiveness, so it will be interesting to read the decision in several months.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Jim147 on February 28, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
I've asked every democrat and "journalist" that I come across on Twitter why the democrats in congress didn't pass a legal bill to do this. Crickets.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on June 28, 2023, 10:49:29 PM
This is the week, waiting to see what SCOTUS decides.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on June 29, 2023, 12:01:48 AM
This is the week, waiting to see what SCOTUS decides.

Guessing 5-4 but which way is hard to guess.  I’m assuming Benedict Roberts will vote with the liberal wing in favor of the forgiveness plan.  Kavanaugh is probably the swing vote.  But I wouldn’t put it past Gorsuch or Barrett to swing left on that.

I still think the Republicans whiffed on not introducing a bill to end the forbearance, eliminate any forgiveness from POTUS, but make student loans 0% (or something functionally equivalent) interest.  I still don’t think that’s the *right* thing to do but it would take a lot of the wind out of D sails while still making everyone payback what they owe.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on June 30, 2023, 11:25:40 AM
Welp, I was wrong.  Struck down the loan forgiveness 6-3.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: K Frame on June 30, 2023, 11:28:47 AM
6 to 3... hum... I wonder who voted what way...

Oh, silly me...

Personal responsibility and accountability 6, FREE *expletive deleted*it PAID FOR WITH FREE GOVERNMENT MONEY IS A HUMAN RIGHT!!! 3...
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 30, 2023, 02:28:48 PM
My boss is one of the forgivees. He was all giddy about getting a freebie. I'm waiting to see his face when he tells me about it getting axed, which he will at great length and in infinite detail.

This is the same guy who pays upwards of $400 a month in payments and storage on a camper he uses maybe three or four times a year. With that, he could have paid off the remainder of his SL in under two years. Every time he mentions student loans I want to slap him upside the head with a calculator.

Brad
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: BobR on June 30, 2023, 02:41:51 PM
I had about 4K forgiven. I applied for and was rejected for the  Public Service Loan Forgiveness program a few years ago because I had the "wrong type" of loan. At the time the program had about a 99% denial rate. When they expanded the types of loans eligible I reapplied and received the loan forgiveness through PSLF. PSLF was/is for people who work in certain jobs following graduation and after making 120 loan payments while in the job they can apply. Many military, medical and teachers got a second chance under the expanded rules.

bob
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on June 30, 2023, 03:14:13 PM
It's so unfair, that if terrorists set off a dirty bomb, people would still have to pay off their student loans.

An SC Justice, folks. Not the Babylon Bee.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/06/30/scotus-justice-kegans-dissent-contains-a-hypothetical-that-you-have-to-see-to-believe-n2384997
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2023, 03:18:11 PM
It's so unfair, that if terrorists set off a dirty bomb, people would still have to pay off their student loans.

An SC Justice, folks. Not the Babylon Bee.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2023/06/30/scotus-justice-kegans-dissent-contains-a-hypothetical-that-you-have-to-see-to-believe-n2384997

I think the libs view the Babylon Bee as a challenge.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on June 30, 2023, 06:34:08 PM
Be curious how the economy reacts when the $300-400 per month average payment starts up in October.

I know, folks should have been planning for the restart of their payments, but they are Americans.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on June 30, 2023, 06:40:13 PM
Biden said he has something in the works

Oh and he also said he thinks the court misinterpreted the Constitution
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on June 30, 2023, 06:43:36 PM
Biden said he has something in the works

Oh and he also said he thinks the court misinterpreted the Constitution

I saw a quick article that executive team is going to pull something from the 1965 Higher Ed Act.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on June 30, 2023, 06:50:38 PM
Apparently this letter addressed to Elizabeth Warren from Harvard Law School’s Legal Services Center in 2020, spells out what can be done under the 1965 Higher Ed Act.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ltr%20to%20Warren%20re%20admin%20debt%20cancellation.pdf
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on July 01, 2023, 09:21:30 AM
Student loans and the mortgage industry are indentured servitude, except you're never freed or released. The USA population loves its chains. The gilding on the cages is shiny. That which can't continue won't. We all need to be ready for when the music stops.

 
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: cordex on July 01, 2023, 10:14:10 AM
Student loans and the mortgage industry are indentured servitude, except you're never freed or released. The USA population loves its chains. The gilding on the cages is shiny. That which can't continue won't. We all need to be ready for when the music stops.
Property and income taxes strike me as much more significant examples of indentured servitude.

Mortgages and college loans are much more manageable and avoidable if people want to. If they are clear examples of indentured servitude then I would think all debt would have to be considered the same.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on July 01, 2023, 10:25:12 AM
Property and income taxes strike me as much more significant examples of indentured servitude.

Mortgages and college loans are much more manageable and avoidable if people want to. If they are clear examples of indentured servitude then I would think all debt would have to be considered the same.

Yeah, all of a part. It's the system.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 10:25:39 AM
Property taxes, at least where I live at, I can see where that money goes.

The school district, city, and county publish their budgets and expenditures every year.

You see the expenditures for infrastructure projects, snow removal, parks, schools, police, fire, etc. 

I kind of like backing out onto a maintained throughfare when I leave my property.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: cordex on July 01, 2023, 10:34:13 AM
Indentured servants typically got something they wanted from the agreement too - room and board, transport to the colonies, etc.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on July 01, 2023, 10:38:49 AM
Indentured servants typically got something they wanted from the agreement too - room and board, transport to the colonies, etc.
We get nice gilded cages, gee gaws galore and don't forget the abundant bread and entertaining circuses. It could be worse.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Boomhauer on July 01, 2023, 10:46:21 AM
Property taxes, at least where I live at, I can see where that money goes.

The school district, city, and county publish their budgets and expenditures every year.

You see the expenditures for infrastructure projects, snow removal, parks, schools, police, fire, etc. 

I kind of like backing out onto a maintained throughfare when I leave my property.

Yeah except the politicians just pocket the money and then two years later claim “we need to raise taxes again to fix the roads, this time we will for reals guys“ and people like you scream at us that we hate the roads and kids when we don’t want to raise taxes.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 11:23:21 AM
Yeah except the politicians just pocket the money and then two years later claim “we need to raise taxes again to fix the roads, this time we will for reals guys“ and people like you scream at us that we hate the roads and kids when we don’t want to raise taxes.

In the midwest they go to jail for that, pocketing money.

Maybe not in Iowa anymore, because the current House, Senate and Governor's office (All GOP) just passed and signed a bill to limit the powers of the State Auditor's office. They all got pissy when the Auditor sued the governor for misspending Federal Covid Dollars.

Politics flip flops, this is going to come back in spades to haunt the Iowa GOP.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on July 01, 2023, 11:26:28 AM
Property taxes, at least where I live at, I can see where that money goes.

The school district, city, and county publish their budgets and expenditures every year.

You see the expenditures for infrastructure projects, snow removal, parks, schools, police, fire, etc. 

I kind of like backing out onto a maintained throughfare when I leave my property.

So, if property taxes were abolished you think all those services would come to a screeching halt, or that accountability for how taxes are spent would stop?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on July 01, 2023, 11:27:20 AM
In the midwest they that fall out of favor go to jail for that, pocketing money.

fixed
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 11:30:06 AM
So, if property taxes were abolished you think all those services would come to a screeching halt, or that accountability for how taxes are spent would stop?

Like all tax cuts, another increase of fees or taxes occurs elsewhere.

Remove property taxes, next thing a 20 year old shitbox now has a $3000 registration fee for plates.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on July 01, 2023, 11:42:33 AM
Like all tax cuts, another increase of fees or taxes occurs elsewhere.

Remove property taxes, next thing a 20 year old shitbox now has a $3000 registration fee for plates.


A) :rofl:
B ) If property taxes are abolished levying absurd fees on car registration isn’t going to be any more popular.  Most places have sales tax.  Bump that up 2-3% and you’ll get all the property tax money. 

I know politicians love to “punish” folks for wanting freedom.  The fact that we don’t punish them at all, let alone vote them out, is another symptom of our cultural rot.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on July 01, 2023, 11:45:47 AM
Every time a property tax increase get voted down the taxable value of everyone's houses jump. They just got another tax increase voted down, bet the taxable value of the house will jump again.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 12:32:29 PM


I know politicians love to “punish” folks for wanting freedom.  The fact that we don’t punish them at all, let alone vote them out, is another symptom of our cultural rot.

That's the problem, vote then out, even if it means voting for the other party.

Another problem that basically caused me to quit the republican party is that at primary time the local party wouldn't even throw a little support to a challenger running against an incumbent. I was extremely active in the county party, even the treasurer for many years, I just up and quit one day because of it. If you even suggested that we should even look at the primary challenger at a meeting you got bullied down.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ron on July 01, 2023, 12:35:03 PM
That's right, we haven't been voting hard enough  :P

Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: HankB on July 01, 2023, 12:52:45 PM
. . . In the midwest they go to jail for that, pocketing money . . .
In Chicago - where I grew up - I assure you that is rarely the case. The politicians have found that the easiest way to avoid jail while lining one's pockets is to fund infrastructure projects with enormously inflated price tags and award the contracts to friends/extended families/campaign contributors. This is a GREAT way to convert public funds into private profits, and as long as those involved are somewhat discrete, the personal enrichment goes on . . . and on . . . and on.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 01:13:30 PM
That's right, we haven't been voting hard enough  :P

Keep voting the incumbent in and keep getting the same results, who is to blame for that?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 01:32:09 PM
In Chicago - where I grew up - I assure you that is rarely the case. The politicians have found that the easiest way to avoid jail while lining one's pockets is to fund infrastructure projects with enormously inflated price tags and award the contracts to friends/extended families/campaign contributors. This is a GREAT way to convert public funds into private profits, and as long as those involved are somewhat discrete, the personal enrichment goes on . . . and on . . . and on.

Chicago is its own bag of problems.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on July 01, 2023, 03:15:12 PM
Chicago is its own bag of problems.

You think Iowa (or Minnesota) is immune?  Might be smaller scale graft but you can bet it still happens.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: cordex on July 01, 2023, 03:36:57 PM
Chicago is its own bag of problems.
But they tried voting for the other party just like you suggested.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 04:51:10 PM
You think Iowa (or Minnesota) is immune?  Might be smaller scale graft but you can bet it still happens.

Before the State Auditor's office got neutered, they had a pretty good record (GOP and Dem Auditors) in catching them. Next year I'm probably going to be agreeing with you.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on July 01, 2023, 04:51:44 PM
But they tried voting for the other party just like you suggested.

No they haven't, the Democrats are still in charge.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Boomhauer on July 02, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
To vote for “the other party” would be to vote in democrats who would turn my area into a smaller version of that absolute shithole Atlanta and make the corruption of the GOP now look like noting.



Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2023, 04:58:15 PM
New York Times column suggests 'death' as 'solution' to student debt after court strikes down Biden handout
https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-york-times-column-suggests-death-solution-student-debt-court-strikes-biden-handout

Quote
Among six methods Ron Lieber included to get rid of student loan debt, such as signing up for student loan forgiveness and filing for bankruptcy, he included that debt "dies with the person or people who take it on."

This option was given for students worried that the debt their loved ones took out for their schooling would pass on to them if those loved ones died. Lieber assured them it wouldn’t.

https://twitter.com/transscribe/status/1674805334357975040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1674805334357975040%7Ctwgr%5E5700ba377cf75979b6309ef5046c56c17b0fae13%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fnew-york-times-column-suggests-death-solution-student-debt-court-strikes-biden-handout

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fz4akVAWYAIUQnL?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on July 02, 2023, 05:03:05 PM
New York Times column suggests 'death' as 'solution' to student debt after court strikes down Biden handout
https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-york-times-column-suggests-death-solution-student-debt-court-strikes-biden-handout

https://twitter.com/transscribe/status/1674805334357975040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1674805334357975040%7Ctwgr%5E5700ba377cf75979b6309ef5046c56c17b0fae13%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fnew-york-times-column-suggests-death-solution-student-debt-court-strikes-biden-handout

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fz4akVAWYAIUQnL?format=png&name=small)

Up to your neck in debt? Perhaps today is a good day to die
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on July 02, 2023, 05:32:06 PM
I’d be shocked if they didn’t go after your estate.  I can’t imagine even (or especially) the feds not going after an estate if it was substantial enough to cover student loan debt.

As a general rule what you own must stand good for what you owe when you die.  If estate assets are insufficient to cover liabilities then the remaining debt dies with the debtor.  If there is an asset that normally would be sold to cover the debts of the estate that the heirs wish to retain then they have to either take responsibility for the debts or purchase the assets at fair market value from the estate.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: RoadKingLarry on July 02, 2023, 05:44:28 PM
Unfortunately debt collectors often don't know or don't care about the Fair debt collection laws.
I personally know of two separate cases where a surviving relative, (both were adult children not living with their parent) was pressured by bill collectors to pay the debts of their deceased loved one that had died with essentially zero assets and significant debt.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on July 02, 2023, 06:00:53 PM
Unfortunately debt collectors often don't know or don't care about the Fair debt collection laws.
I personally know of two separate cases where a surviving relative, (both were adult children not living with their parent) was pressured by bill collectors to pay the debts of their deceased loved one that had died with essentially zero assets and significant debt.

They (or at least their bosses) know.  But if they can pester/bully someone into paying, often by outright lying about the consequences if they don’t, they get more money than the nothing they should.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: JTHunter on July 02, 2023, 09:40:08 PM
In Chicago - where I grew up - I assure you that is rarely the case. The politicians have found that the easiest way to avoid jail while lining one's pockets is to fund infrastructure projects with enormously inflated price tags and award the contracts to friends/extended families/campaign contributors. This is a GREAT way to convert public funds into private profits, and as long as those involved are somewhat discrete, the personal enrichment goes on . . . and on . . . and on.

It ain't limited to just $hicago.  [barf]  :facepalm:
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on July 14, 2023, 08:59:38 AM
Think Biden is going to stop? Guess again

Quote
The U.S. Department of Education announced Friday it "will begin notifying more than 804,000 borrowers that they have a total of $39 billion in Federal student loans that will be automatically discharged in the coming weeks."

"For far too long, borrowers fell through the cracks of a broken system that failed to keep accurate track of their progress towards forgiveness," U.S. Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona said in a statement. "Today, the Biden-Harris Administration is taking another historic step to right these wrongs and announcing $39 billion in debt relief for another 804,000 borrowers.

"By fixing past administrative failures, we are ensuring everyone gets the forgiveness they deserve, just as we have done for public servants, students who were cheated by their colleges, and borrowers with permanent disabilities, including veterans," Cardona added. "This Administration will not stop fighting to level the playing field in higher education."

Biden administration forgives $39 billion in student loan debt to more than 800,000 borrowers
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/biden-administration-forgives-39-billion-student-loan-debt-more-than-800000-borrowers
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on July 14, 2023, 09:13:09 AM
I wonder how this will affect the voting habits of those blue collar pro-union dem voters? Or maybe he'll toss a few tens of billions their way too.

It kinda makes me want to go out and slash $39 billion worth of GSA vehicle tires. Other than my taxes would be paying for that too.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on July 14, 2023, 10:03:34 AM
I wonder how this will affect the voting habits of those blue collar pro-union dem voters? Or maybe he'll toss a few tens of billions their way too.

It kinda makes me want to go out and slash $39 billion worth of GSA vehicle tires. Other than my taxes would be paying for that too.

I know Ben is kidding here, but I like throwing perspective on some of these fed.gov numbers every now and then.

There aren't $39 billion worth of GSA tires to slash.  According to GSA.gov they lease 656,494 vehicles in 2022 including Civilian agencies, the DOD, and the USPS.  Even if each tire was a preium $1000 tire, and you slashed every tire* on every GSA in the world, you'd only cost 7% of this newest loan bailout.

*spares excluded, as they are locked in trunks
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on July 14, 2023, 10:07:54 AM
I know Ben is kidding here, but I like throwing perspective on some of these fed.gov numbers every now and then.

There aren't $39 billion worth of GSA tires to slash.  According to GSA.gov they lease 656,494 vehicles in 2022 including Civilian agencies, the DOD, and the USPS.  Even if each tire was a preium $1000 tire, and you slashed every tire* on every GSA in the world, you'd only cost 7% of this newest loan bailout.

*spares excluded, as they are locked in trunks

Got to include the "$500 coffee pot" handling fee
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on July 14, 2023, 10:08:20 AM
I know Ben is kidding here,

Yes, I was, Neil deGrasse Tyson of the fed.gov.

 =D =D =D
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on November 29, 2023, 09:23:17 AM
Sneaking more in

Quote
Joe Biden told 813,000 more Americans that he has wiped their student loan debt on Tuesday, meaning the president has forgiven a total of $127 billion for 3.5 million borrowers.

The former students will soon receive an email from Biden notifying them that their debt has been forgiven - despite the fact that his plan to cancel $400 billion in debt was rejected by the Supreme Court in June.

The email - making clear that the help has come from Biden - read: 'Congratulations — your student loan has been forgiven because of actions my administration took to make sure you receive the relief you earned and deserve.'

Biden tells 813,000 more Americans he has WIPED their student loan debt: President has now forgiven $127 billion for 3.5 million borrowers - even though the Supreme Court sank his first bid
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12802519/Biden-WIPED-student-loan-debt.html
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: MechAg94 on November 29, 2023, 09:59:14 AM
Have any of you heard anyone in Govt suggest cutting the loan interest to 0% and/or forgiving the interest only?  Seems to me that would be a good way to relieve some of the pain without forgiving the debt itself.  I don't really like the idea of the FedGov profiting from loan interest on top of all the taxes.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: Ben on November 29, 2023, 10:04:52 AM
Have any of you heard anyone in Govt suggest cutting the loan interest to 0% and/or forgiving the interest only?  Seems to me that would be a good way to relieve some of the pain without forgiving the debt itself.  I don't really like the idea of the FedGov profiting from loan interest on top of all the taxes.

I would have little heartache over that. It would be a good short term compromise to a broken system. I think a lot of people would find that acceptable, as it doesn't erase people's responsibility.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: WLJ on November 29, 2023, 10:11:44 AM
Have any of you heard anyone in Govt suggest cutting the loan interest to 0% and/or forgiving the interest only?  Seems to me that would be a good way to relieve some of the pain without forgiving the debt itself.  I don't really like the idea of the FedGov profiting from loan interest on top of all the taxes.

How many votes does that gain for the dems which is the measuring stick this stuff is measured by?
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on November 29, 2023, 10:14:41 AM
I would have little heartache over that. It would be a good short term compromise to a broken system. I think a lot of people would find that acceptable, as it doesn't erase people's responsibility.

Which is why it won't be done.  Not only does it not erase responsibility, which is the goal, many folks wouldn't have a problem with it, which would take away one of the topics to scream that "republicans are out to get you" about.

There's no fund raising or getting apathetic voters out in a compromise everyone likes.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 29, 2023, 10:26:27 AM
Have any of you heard anyone in Govt suggest cutting the loan interest to 0% and/or forgiving the interest only?  Seems to me that would be a good way to relieve some of the pain without forgiving the debt itself.  I don't really like the idea of the FedGov profiting from loan interest on top of all the taxes.

I've been saying for a while that the Republicans are stupid for not having done basically that.  Still wrong, but would have been very savvy politically.  Which, of course, is why they didn't do it.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: sumpnz on November 29, 2023, 10:30:12 AM
Sneaking more in

Biden tells 813,000 more Americans he has WIPED their student loan debt: President has now forgiven $127 billion for 3.5 million borrowers - even though the Supreme Court sank his first bid
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12802519/Biden-WIPED-student-loan-debt.html

Article is short on details (shocker) but I'm betting this was forgiving loans under long standing programs.  Most such programs had a 1-2% success rate for people getting loans forgiven.  And often they would lose out for stupid reasons.  So if this was basically righting some of the things under those programs I'm not going to get tooooo worked up over it.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: dogmush on November 29, 2023, 11:27:28 AM
I wouldn't get toooo worked up about it if there was any evidence at all that we were going to stop giving out these student loans that were going to end up unpayable.

Unfortunately the evidence seems to be we will accelerate giving out student loans that aren't able to be paid back.  People need to face the fact that many college degrees are not worth what they cost, and should not be encouraged.
Title: Re: On That Student Loan Forgiveness
Post by: charby on November 29, 2023, 03:46:42 PM
Article is short on details (shocker) but I'm betting this was forgiving loans under long standing programs.  Most such programs had a 1-2% success rate for people getting loans forgiven.  And often they would lose out for stupid reasons.  So if this was basically righting some of the things under those programs I'm not going to get tooooo worked up over it.

Yep, I read an article a little bit ago that it is related to the IDR repayment plan where loans are forgiven in  20 or 25 years of payments. Very few were approved due to inaction by the contracted student loan servicer companies.

Honestly past and present student loan servicing companies needed to be audited and investigated. Then make them pay for their errors.