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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on September 01, 2022, 07:52:59 PM

Title: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 01, 2022, 07:52:59 PM
Quote
NOW - White House: "When you are not with what majority of Americans are, then you know, that is extreme. That is an extreme way of thinking."

There will be no dissension!

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/09/01/karine-jean-pierre-says-when-youre-not-with-the-majority-of-americans-then-you-know-that-is-extreme/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Devonai on September 01, 2022, 08:33:22 PM
Someone should point out to her that the US is currently 57.8% white, 18.7% Hispanic, 12.4% Black, and 6% Asian.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Lennyjoe on September 01, 2022, 08:34:06 PM
Man this administration is quickly becoming Biden the divider.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 01, 2022, 09:15:43 PM
Man this administration is quickly becoming Biden the divider.

That's  feature, not a bug.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 01, 2022, 09:20:19 PM
Wait until we're 6 months or so from the 2024 election. Think it's insane now? You ain't seen anything yet.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Tuco on September 01, 2022, 09:47:10 PM
So, this is how Sleepy Joe says 'Deplorables'
I cant see this going well
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 01, 2022, 09:52:43 PM
Joe is at what 40% approval right now?
Can't believe there are that many people that stupid. Wait, yes I can.
Anyway I guess that means 60% are extremist
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 02, 2022, 07:44:44 AM
He gave an "Extremists!" speech last night. CNN apparently later edited the background to pink to not make it look so sinister.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbnQ0nCX0AASyS3?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 02, 2022, 08:32:06 AM
https://twitter.com/hashtag/PedoHitler?src=hashtag_click

The visual framing was noticed.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 08:55:05 AM
(https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/476d1f13d1b4939b905f4c2d8a50d5b6.jpg)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 09:09:42 AM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/FbpobQlX0AA6JrH.jpg)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 02, 2022, 09:33:50 AM
Joe is at what 40% approval right now?
Can't believe there are that many people that stupid. Wait, yes I can.
Anyway I guess that means 60% are extremist

Well, stealing something from the link... if you approve of Biden's performance I guess you are an extremist.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: HankB on September 02, 2022, 09:47:35 AM
Well, stealing something from the link... if you approve of Biden's performance I guess you are an extremist.
By his own definition, Biden himself is an extremist since ALL recent polls show his approval UNDER 50%.

Biden is endangering democracy itself!
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 10:29:55 AM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/WFHfMBEl.jpg)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 02, 2022, 10:44:14 AM
CIVIL WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Morning Joe
@Morning_Joe
·
Follow
Eugene Robinson: Biden speech was an urgent, wartime address

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/02/declared-war-on-americans-morningjoe-scarborough-and-guest-let-the-fascist-cat-out-of-the-bag-in-biden-hate-speech-segment/


Which (putting my tinfoil on) I've been thinking about. They make these outrageous statements, then people like me (I've said it here in the last few weeks) off the cuff will say something like, "Well, that's one way to get civil war". Absolutely not calling for civil war, just shaking our heads at the actual extremism coming from Biden, etc.

Then DOJ and Homeland run their search bots through websites like ours and general social media, find comments like mine, then the WH press secretary holds press conferences talking about all the intelligence they have on dangerous extremists arming for war against the US.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 11:29:54 AM
Quote
Greg Price
@greg_price11
·
Follow
The "extreme" MAGA agenda:

- Secure borders.
- Fair elections
- Energy independence
- Tough on crime
- Save babies
- Stop genital mutilation of kids
- Put parents first
- School choice
- Protect constitutional rights
- Put America First.

What part sounds extreme to you?
Quote
Greg Price
@greg_price11
·
Follow
Replying to @greg_price11
- Bring manufacturing home
- Pro-family policies
- Better trade deals
- Enforce anti-trust laws and stop corporate monopolies
- Fight government corruption
- Stop funding endless wars
- Fix social security

What part of this extreme MAGA agenda is a threat to democracy?
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/02/kick-as-thread-goes-through-extreme-maga-agenda-biden-claims-is-destroying-democracy-and-gosh-it-sounds-pretty-awesome/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Bogie on September 02, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
They seem determined to split the population, to the point where civil war would be inevitable. What makes them think that they'll come out ahead? Are they planning on nuking Nebraska? That doesn't seem to be off the table. Are they planning on bringing in outside troops? I could see that... And that won't end well at all...
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: DittoHead on September 02, 2022, 11:50:39 AM
Man this administration is quickly becoming Biden the divider.
When is the last time this country had a leader that wasn't a divider? Reagan? I'm not saying everyone loved him but he seemed to expand the coalition (bring people together). Since then the strategy seems to be "energizing the base" instead of expanding it.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 02, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
So we're going to sit here and pretend that Republicans want that list, or move on it when they're in charge?  Really?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: cordex on September 02, 2022, 12:21:09 PM
So we're going to sit here and pretend that Republicans want that list, or move on it when they're in charge?  Really?
Are you under the impression that Biden was specifically and only referring to Republican politicians when he was describing extremists?  I understood him to be referring to Republican voters and supporters.

Given that context, yes, I think that is what many or most Republican voters want.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: tokugawa on September 02, 2022, 12:38:45 PM
They seem determined to split the population, to the point where civil war would be inevitable. What makes them think that they'll come out ahead? Are they planning on nuking Nebraska? That doesn't seem to be off the table. Are they planning on bringing in outside troops? I could see that... And that won't end well at all...

It is irrelevant who "wins". The destruction will be the same. The point is to destroy the USA as as the last impediment to world government.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 02, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
I am willing to concede that a large number of Republican voters want that list.  If that's true, voting for Republican politicians doesn't seem to be advancing their desires reliably.

Sure he's not governing well, but don't kid yourselves that getting someone from your tribe in there will somehow bring about concrete movement on the "MAGA list".
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 02, 2022, 12:56:50 PM
Man, I just ordered my semi-fascist t-shirt. Now I have to get the extremist one, too? Ugh. It's getting to be too hard to keep up with all the calumnies.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: cordex on September 02, 2022, 01:02:07 PM
I am willing to concede that a large number of Republican voters want that list.  If that's true, voting for Republican politicians doesn't seem to be advancing their desires reliably.
No argument.

Sure he's not governing well, but don't kid yourselves that getting someone from your tribe in there will somehow bring about concrete movement on the "MAGA list".
Again, you have completely missed the context.  That list was put forward as a description of the platform and the beliefs of the voters that Biden was labeling extremist.  Your tangent about Republican politicians not accomplishing those goals is accurate but a total non sequitur.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 01:03:23 PM
Appears we've reached the point where in their minds you're either a moderate democrat (far left in the real world) or you're an extreme far right fascist enemy of the state with no in between
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: TechMan on September 02, 2022, 01:18:24 PM
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/02/red-yawn-hilarious-memes-make-bidens-speech-attacking-his-own-citizens-a-tad-less-horrific-and-here-are-some-of-the-best/ (https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/02/red-yawn-hilarious-memes-make-bidens-speech-attacking-his-own-citizens-a-tad-less-horrific-and-here-are-some-of-the-best/)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 02, 2022, 01:50:07 PM
Quote
Charlie Spiering
@charliespiering
BIDEN walking it back: "I don't consider any Trump supporter to be a threat. I do think anyone who calls for the use of violence and fails to condemn violence when its used, refuse to acknowledge an election has been won... That is a threat to democracy."

"calls for the use of violence and fails to condemn violence"

Pretty much exclusively if not 100% dems on that list

"refuse to acknowledge an election has been won"

And the list of dems grows longer

WATCH: Joe Biden fires up the gaslight, assures Peter Doocy ‘I don’t consider any Trump supporter a threat to the country’
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/09/02/watch-joe-biden-fires-up-the-gaslight-assures-peter-doocy-i-dont-consider-any-trump-supporter-a-threat-to-the-country/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: MechAg94 on September 02, 2022, 02:47:52 PM
When is the last time this country had a leader that wasn't a divider? Reagan? I'm not saying everyone loved him but he seemed to expand the coalition (bring people together). Since then the strategy seems to be "energizing the base" instead of expanding it.
If someone actually tries to be all things to all people, they will get nothing done even in normal times.

It seems to me that the left and the media of the time went all out to attack Reagan wherever they could.  I don't think anyone can avoid labels like that in this day and time if they are not a leftist.  Too many people online and in media are fanatical in their beliefs and condemn anyone who is not in complete agreement. 

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 02, 2022, 06:01:56 PM
The permanent government will do what the permanent government wants regardless of "voters" or so called "representatives".

The police and military will obey the commands of the permanent government. I don't think any politician or branch of any level government is coming to save us from the politicians and branches of government who cut their paychecks.

The masses will side with the permanent government. Few individuals are willing to really admit what has happened and is happening in the ol' USA, as that would precede entering into an existential crises of realizing that literally everything they believed about America is BS. 

Democracy, elections, representation, rule of law, are mostly just illusions now.

The speech while flanked with Marines is what is called pacing and leading. They are opening the Overton window of who the commander in chief can define as the enemy. Getting the masses used to the idea that "the right", "Maga" are fascists threatening our security. Maybe not for next year or the year after but at some point our police and military will be securing "Democracy" and "Freedom" in the USA using combined forces of domestic police and the military. Within the next decade I can see the permanent government consolidating things and taking care of dissent.

Civil war in our future is probably not on the table but mass purges by the government is more likely. We live in a panopticon, I don't see how organizing any resistance could even ever get off the ground.

Just an opinion of course, a working theory.

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 02, 2022, 06:58:11 PM
 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Anyone else remember the media characterizing every major speech by Trump as "dark"?

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: kgbsquirrel on September 02, 2022, 09:28:46 PM
The permanent government will do what the permanent government wants regardless of "voters" or so called "representatives".

The police and military will obey the commands of the permanent government. I don't think any politician or branch of any level government is coming to save us from the politicians and branches of government who cut their paychecks.

The masses will side with the permanent government. Few individuals are willing to really admit what has happened and is happening in the ol' USA, as that would precede entering into an existential crises of realizing that literally everything they believed about America is BS. 

Democracy, elections, representation, rule of law, are mostly just illusions now.

The speech while flanked with Marines is what is called pacing and leading. They are opening the Overton window of who the commander in chief can define as the enemy. Getting the masses used to the idea that "the right", "Maga" are fascists threatening our security. Maybe not for next year or the year after but at some point our police and military will be securing "Democracy" and "Freedom" in the USA using combined forces of domestic police and the military. Within the next decade I can see the permanent government consolidating things and taking care of dissent.

Civil war in our future is probably not on the table but mass purges by the government is more likely. We live in a panopticon, I don't see how organizing any resistance could even ever get off the ground.

Just an opinion of course, a working theory.

Spot on.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Nick1911 on September 02, 2022, 10:22:59 PM
Full text:

The intro:
Quote
My fellow Americans, please, if you have a seat, take it.
I speak to you tonight from sacred ground in America: Independence Hall in Philadelphia, Pa.
This is where America made its declaration of independence to the world more than two centuries ago, with an idea unique among nations: that in America, we’re all created equal.
This is where the United States Constitution was written and debated. This is where we set in motion the most extraordinary experiment of self-government the world has ever known.
With three simple words: we, the people; we, the people. These two documents and their ideas they embody — equality and democracy — are the rock upon which this nation is built.
They are how we became the greatest nation on earth. They are why, for more than two centuries, America has been a beacon to the world.
But as I stand here tonight, equality and democracy are under assault. We do ourselves no favor to pretend otherwise.
So, tonight, I’ve come to this place where it all began to speak as plainly as I can to the nation about the threats we face, about the power we have in our own hands to meet these threats and about the incredible future that lies in front of us, if only we choose it.
We must never forget, we, the people, are the true heirs of the American experiment that began more than two centuries ago.
We, the people, have burning inside of each of us the flame of liberty that was lit here at Independence Hall. A flame that lit our way through abolition, the Civil War, suffrage, the Great Depression, world wars, civil rights. That sacred flame still burns. Now on our time as we build an America that is more prosperous, free, and just. That is the work of my presidency, a mission I believe in with my whole soul.

Declaring the enemy:
Quote
But first, we must be honest with each other and with ourselves.
Too much of what’s happening in our country today is not normal. Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our Republic.
Now, I want to be very clear, very clear up front. Not every Republican, not even the majority of Republicans, are MAGA Republicans. Not every Republican embraces their extreme ideology. I know, because I’ve been able to work with these mainstream Republicans.
But there’s no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans. And that is a threat to this country.

Articulating the threat:
Quote
These are hard things, but I’m an American president, not a president of red America or blue America, but of all America. And I believe it’s my duty, my duty to level with you, to tell the truth no matter how difficult, no matter how painful.
And here, in my view, is what is true: MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution. They do not believe in the rule of law. They do not recognize the will of the people. They refuse to accept the results of a free election, and they’re working right now as I speak in state after state to give power to decide elections in America to partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers to undermine democracy itself.

Fear mongering:
Quote
MAGA forces are determined to take this country backwards, backwards to an America where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. They promote authoritarian leaders, and they fanned the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country.  They look at the mob that stormed the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, brutally attacking law enforcement, not as insurrectionists who placed a dagger at the throat of our democracy, but they look at them as patriots. And they see their MAGA failure to stop a peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election as preparation for the 2022 and 2024 elections.
They tried everything last time to nullify the votes of 81 million people. This time, they’re determined to succeed in thwarting the will of the people. That’s why respected conservatives like Federal Circuit Court Judge Michael Luttig has called Trump and the extreme MAGA Republicans “a clear and present danger” to our democracy.

Addressing the problem:
Quote
But while the threat to American democracy is real, I want to say as clearly as we can, we are not powerless in the face of these threats. We are not bystanders in this ongoing attack on democracy. There are far more Americans, far more Americans from every background and belief, who reject the extreme MAGA ideology than those that accept it. And folks, it’s within our power, it’s in our hands, yours and mine, to stop the assault on American democracy.
I believe America is at an inflection point, one of those moments that determine the shape of everything that’s to come after. And now, America must choose to move forward or to move backwards, to build a future or obsess about the past, to be a nation of hope and unity and optimism or a nation of fear, division and of darkness.

Demonizing the enemy:
Quote
MAGA Republicans have made their choice. They embrace anger. They thrive on chaos. They live, not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies. But together, together, we can choose a different path. We can choose a better path forward to the future, a future of possibility, a future to build a dream and hope, and we’re on that path moving ahead.

Good cop/ Building rapport with the viewer
Quote
I know this nation. I know you, the American people. I know your courage, I know your hearts, and I know our history. This is a nation that honors our Constitution. We do not reject it. This is a nation that believes in the rule of law. We do not repudiate it. This is a nation that respects free and fair elections. We honor the will of the people. We do not deny it. And this is a nation that rejects violence as a political tool. We do not encourage violence. We are still an America that believes in honesty and decency and respect for others. Patriotism, liberty, justice for all, hope, possibilities — we are still at our core a democracy.

Call to action
Quote
And yet, history tells us that blind loyalty to a single leader and a willingness to engage in political violence is fatal to democracy.
For a long time, we’ve told ourselves that American democracy is guaranteed, but it’s not. We have to defend it, protect it, stand up for it, each and every one of us. That’s why tonight, I’m asking our nation to come together, unite behind the single purpose of defending our democracy regardless of your ideology.
We’re all called by duty and conscience to confront extremists who put their own pursuit of power above all else. Democrats, independents, mainstream Republicans, we must be stronger, more determined and more committed to saving American democracy. And MAGA Republicans are destroying American democracy.
We, the people, will not let anyone or anything tear us apart. Today, there are dangers around us we cannot allow to prevail. We hear — you’ve heard it, more and more talk about violence as an acceptable political tool in this country. It’s not. It can never be an acceptable tool. So, I want to say this plain and simple: There is no place for political violence in America, period, none, ever.

More evidence about how terrible these maga folks are
Quote
You saw law enforcement brutally attacked on January the 6th. We’ve seen election officials, poll workers, many of them volunteers of both parties, subject to intimidation and death threats. And, can you believe it, F.B.I. agents just doing their job as directed, facing threats to their own lives from their own fellow citizens.
On top of that, there are public figures today, yesterday and the day before predicting and all but calling for mass violence and rioting in the streets. This is inflammatory. It’s dangerous. It’s against the rule of law. And we, the people, must say this is not who we are.

Further characterization of maga republicans:
Quote
Ladies and gentlemen, we can’t be pro-insurrectionist and pro-American. They’re incompatible. We can’t allow violence to be normalized in this country. It’s wrong. We each have to reject political violence with all the moral clarity and conviction this nation can muster now.
We can’t let the integrity of our elections be undermined, for that is a path to chaos. Look, I know politics can be fierce and mean and nasty in America. I get it. I believe in the give and take of politics, in disagreement and debate and dissent. We’re a big complicated country, but democracy endures only if we, the people, respect the guardrails of the Republic. Only if, we the people accept the results of free and fair elections. Only if, we the people see politics, not as total war, but mediation of our differences. Democracy cannot survive on one side believes there are only two outcomes to an election: Either they win or they were cheated. And that’s where the MAGA Republicans are today.  They don’t understand what every patriotic American knows. You can’t love your country only when you win. It’s fundamental.
American democracy only works only if we choose to respect the rule of law and the institutions that were set up in this chamber behind me. Only if we respect our legitimate political differences.

Rejecting election fraud
Quote
I will not stand by and watch — I will not — the will of the American people be overturned by wild conspiracy theories and baseless evidence-free claims of fraud. I will not stand by and watch elections in this country stolen by people who simply refuse to accept that they lost. I will not stand by and watch the most fundamental freedom in this country, the freedom to vote and have your vote counted, and be taken from you and the American people.

Invite the viewer to join your quest
Quote
Look, as your president, I will defend our democracy with every fiber of my being, and I’m asking every American to join me.
Throughout our history, America has often made the greatest progress coming out of some of our darkest moments like you’re hearing in that bullhorn. I believe we can and must do that again, and we are.

Further characterization of the enemy
Quote
MAGA Republicans look at America and see carnage and darkness and despair. They spread fear and lies. Lies told for profit and power.

But wait, with your obedience..
Quote
But I see a different America — an America with an unlimited future, an America that’s about to take off. I hope you see it as well. Just look around. I believe we could lift America from the depths of Covid, so we passed the largest economic recovery package since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and today America’s economy is faster, stronger than any other advanced nation in the world. We have more to go. I believe we can build a better America, so we passed the biggest infrastructure investment since President Dwight D. Eisenhower, and we’ve now embarked on a decade of rebuilding the nation’s roads, bridges, highways, ports, water systems, high-speed internet, railroads.
I believe we can make America safer, so we passed the most significant gun safety law since President Clinton.
I believe we could go from being the highest cost of prescriptions to the world to making prescription drugs and health care more affordable, so we passed the most significant health care reform since President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act.
And I believed we could create a clean energy future and save the planet, so we passed the most important climate initiative ever, ever, ever.
The cynics and the critics tell us nothing can get done, but they’re wrong.
There is not a single thing America cannot do, not a single thing beyond our capacity if we do it together. It’s never easy. But we’re proving that America, no matter how long the road, progress does come.
Look, I know the last year, few years have been tough, but today Covid no longer controls our lives. More Americans are working than ever. Businesses are growing, our schools are open, millions of Americans have been lifted out of poverty. Millions of veterans once exposed to toxic burn pits will now get what they deserve for their families in compensation. American manufacturing has come alive across the heartland, and the future will be made in America, no matter what the white supremacists and the extremists say.  I made a bet on you, the American people, and that bet is paying off, proving that from darkness, the darkness of Charlottesville, of Covid, of gun violence, of insurrection, we can see the light. Light is now visible. Light that will guide us forward. Not only in words but in actions. Actions for you, for your children, for your grandchildren, for America.
Even in this moment with all the challenges we face, I give you my word as a Biden, I’ve never been more optimistic about America’s future. Not because of me, but because of who you are.
We’re going to end cancer as we know it, mark my words. We’re going to create millions of new jobs and a clean energy economy. We’re going to think big. We’re going to make the 21st century another American century because the world needs us to. That’s where we need to focus our energy. Not in the past, not on divisive culture wars, not on the politics of grievance, but on a future we can build together.

Evil Maga:
Quote
The MAGA Republicans believe that for them to succeed, everyone else has to fail. They believe America, not like what I believe about America. I believe America is big enough for all of us to succeed, and that is the nation we’re building, a nation where no one is left behind.

Vapid closing noises:
Quote
I ran for president because I believed we were in a battle of the soul of this nation. I still believe that to be true. I believe the soul is the breadth, the life and the essence of who we are. The soul is what makes us, us.
The soul of America is defined by the sacred proposition that all are created equal in the image of God, that all are entitled to be treated with decency, dignity and respect, that all deserve justice and a shot at lives of prosperity and consequence. And that democracy, democracy must be defended, for democracy makes all these things possible.
Folks, and it’s up to us. Democracy begins and will be preserved, and we the people’s habits of the heart — in our character, optimism that is tested, yet endures, courage that digs deep when we need it. Empathy that fuels democracy. The willingness to see each other not as enemies but as fellow Americans.
Look, our democracy isn’t perfect. It always has been. Notwithstanding those folks you hear on the other side there. They’re entitled to be outrageous. This is a democracy. But history and common sense — good manners is nothing they have ever suffered from — but history and common sense tell us that opportunity, liberty and justice for all are most likely to come to pass in a democracy. We have never fully realized the aspirations of our founding, but every generation has opened those doors a little bit wider to include more people who have been excluded before.
My fellow Americans, America is an idea; the most powerful idea in the history of the world, and it beats in the hearts of the people of this country. It beats in all our hearts. It unites America. It is the American creed.
The idea that America guarantees that everyone be treated with dignity. It gives hate no safe harbor. It installs in everyone the belief that no matter where you start in life, there’s nothing you can’t achieve. That’s who we are. That’s what we stand for. That’s what we believe.
And that’s precisely what we’re doing — opening doors, creating possibilities, focusing on the future — and we’re only just beginning.
Our task is to make our nation free and fair, just and strong, noble and whole, and this work is the work of democracy, the work of this generation. It is the work of our time for all time. We can’t afford to leave anyone on the sidelines. We need everyone to do their part, so speak up, speak out, get engaged, vote, vote, vote!
And if we do our duty, if we do our duty, in 2022 and beyond, then ages still to come will say we, all of us here, we kept the faith. We preserved democracy. We heeded our words. We heeded not our worst instincts but our better angels. We proved that for all its imperfections, America is still the beacon to the world, an ideal to be realized, a promise to be kept. There’s nothing more important. Nothing more sacred. Nothing more American. That’s our soul. That’s who we truly are. And that’s who we must always be.
I have no doubt, none, that this is who we will be and that we’ll come together as a nation that will secure our democracy. That for the next 200 years we’ll have what we had the past 200 years, the greatest nation on the face of the earth. We just need to remember who we are. We are the United States of America, the United States of America. And may God protect our nation, and may God protect all those who stand watch over our democracy.
God bless you all. Democracy. Thank you.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: MechAg94 on September 02, 2022, 11:57:21 PM
Biden Signs Non-Aggression Pact With Poland
https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-signs-nonaggression-pact-with-poland

 :rofl: :rofl:


Babylon Bee has an entire WWII series of headlines. 
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 03, 2022, 09:36:17 AM
Joseph Goebbels would be proud

Quote
Sam Harris
@SamHarrisOrg
·
Follow
I love seeing Trumpists condemning the political optics of this image. Admittedly, they are terrible. But they are only bad by reference to values that should lead you to totally repudiate Trump himself. For Biden, this is a gaffe; for Trump, it would be a window into his soul.
Quote
In Harris’s mind, when you see Joe Biden acting like the tyrant they claim Trump is, it should be all the reason you need to … reject Trump. It’s creative, we’ll give him that.
https://twitchy.com/fuzzychimp-313137/2022/09/03/sam-harris-bidens-terrible-horrible-no-good-bad-speech-window-trumps-soul/

 :O
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 03, 2022, 02:52:32 PM
Biden Signs Non-Aggression Pact With Poland
https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-signs-nonaggression-pact-with-poland

 :rofl: :rofl:


Babylon Bee has an entire WWII series of headlines.

"Biden Rejected From Austrian Art School"

I'm dead.

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 03, 2022, 03:02:46 PM
FreedomToon's turn

Bidens Unifying Speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRqCiEdDEJY
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Hawkmoon on September 03, 2022, 03:09:51 PM
”Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

  -- Barry Goldwater

https://www.nationalreview.com/2004/08/extremism-defense-liberty-editors/

Quote
”Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” “Justice too long delayed is justice denied.” “There comes a time when the cup of endurance runs over, and men are no longer willing to be plunged into an abyss of injustice when they experience the blackness of corroding despair.” “I have been greatly disappointed with the moderates.”

The first of these statements was of course Goldwater’s, denounced in the New York Times as a “jumble of high-sounding contradictions,” and by Governor Rockefeller as “shocking.” The succeeding three, which no verbal taxonomist would distinguish as from a different family, are from a single statement by Martin Luther King, uttered a few months before he was given a hero’s welcome at the White House, and named Man of the Year by Time magazine. Quo licet Jovi, the Romans used to say, non licet Bovi–what the gods can get away with, the swine cannot. Dr. King is a god in our society; Goldwater is a pauper. Talk about second-class citizenship!
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 03, 2022, 04:46:42 PM
Calls for peace

Quote
Jay Arnold
@jadedcreative
·
Follow
What are we going to do with all these horrible people?
9:09 AM · Sep 3, 2022
Quote
🌵Sue 🌊 🐕🇺🇸 🇺🇦 BanAssaultWeapons 💉💉💉
@New2018World
·
Follow
Replying to @jadedcreative
They came out from under rocks & it will be hard for them to go away.  Germany did it.  So can we.
9:26 AM · Sep 3, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/09/03/germany-did-it-liberals-ponder-what-to-do-with-all-of-these-horrible-people/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 03, 2022, 04:54:13 PM
Quote
    .⁦@rolandsmartin⁩ on Trump voters: “We are at war with these people. These folks are evil. They have allowed evil into their house with Donald Trump.” pic.twitter.com/ncFVVT4CyX

    — Tom Elliott (@tomselliott) September 3, 2022
Quote
Cont’d, “This evil is spreading. And when you are in a war footing, you have to respond accordingly. It is about time Joe Biden got tough. Stop being weak, stop being impotent, quit not fighting back. What these people want to do to this country is destroy democracy.”
12:46 PM · Sep 3, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/09/03/roland-s-martin-tells-msnbc-we-are-at-war-with-these-people-these-folks-are-evil/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 03, 2022, 06:00:35 PM
What evil has Trump committed?

How is Trump more evil than standard issue Republicans and Democrats?

How does Trump endanger democracy?

I haz questions
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 03, 2022, 06:03:22 PM

How is Trump more evil than standard issue Republicans and Democrats?


The partisan screamers have answers to your other questions, but let me tell you, that one I quoted will cause them to stroke out a little in the reeee-ing.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 03, 2022, 07:46:10 PM
Want to really see heads explode?

Repost Bidens speech replacing MAGA with Jewish power brokers, Jews or BLM, blacks, LGBT lobby, gays or whatever aggrieved minority of your choice.

That speech is only allowed and doesn't lead to widespread violence because it's aimed at MAGA Americans. 
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 03, 2022, 07:56:27 PM
A pox on both their houses parties.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 03, 2022, 08:36:18 PM
A pox on both their houses parties.

We're in a real pickle. There are no white hats riding in to save the day. Just right thinking individuals, atomized, spread out across the land wondering what happened.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 03, 2022, 08:58:38 PM
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: lee n. field on September 03, 2022, 09:32:01 PM
Hashtag pedoHitler trending. (https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2022/09/02/dark-brandon-disaster-pedohitler-trends-on-twitter-after-joe-bidens-divisive-speech/)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: HeroHog on September 04, 2022, 12:51:53 AM
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right

Here I am
Stuck in the middle with Jews...
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Blakenzy on September 04, 2022, 03:20:38 AM
It is irrelevant who "wins". The destruction will be the same. The point is to destroy the USA as as the last impediment to world government.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 04, 2022, 08:09:44 AM
Trump did a rally right after the Biden Hitler speech, and in the same place:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1566230943693676544

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/09/03/says-it-all-trump-rally-gets-compared-to-bidens-event-a-few-days-ago-in-the-same-city-watch/

I keep hearing Biden got the most votes in history and Trump lost the election. My lyin' eyes keep trying to tell me something else.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 04, 2022, 10:04:39 AM
Trump did a rally right after the Biden Hitler speech, and in the same place:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1566230943693676544

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2022/09/03/says-it-all-trump-rally-gets-compared-to-bidens-event-a-few-days-ago-in-the-same-city-watch/

I keep hearing Biden got the most votes in history and Trump lost the election. My lyin' eyes keep trying to tell me something else.

But Nazis!

Quote
Andrew Wortman 🏳️‍🌈🇺🇸
@AmoneyResists
·
Follow
Multiple vendors are selling Nazi flags at the #TrumpRally to prove just how strongly his supporters stand against fascism.

Even Twitter flagged it as a lie

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/04/what-a-tool-even-twitter-busts-activist-andrew-wortman-for-flat-out-lying-about-vendors-selling-nazi-flags-at-trumprally/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 04, 2022, 10:10:30 AM


I keep hearing Biden got the most votes in history and Trump lost the election. My lyin' eyes keep trying to tell me something else.

What I suspect may have happened is this.  Lazy, ignorant people don't vote very much, because it is too much effort.  When they do, it is mostly for Democrats.  The covid freakout made a bunch of states ease absentee/mail-in voting.  The democrats made lots of effort to get this demographic to vote absentee.  So we had a bunch of lazy people that ordinarily don't bother to vote going for Biden.  In an election run under ordinary rules, Trump probably would have won.

I dread the day we go to internet voting.

I don't know if that is what happened, but that is my guess.

I have said before, I support only a limited franchise.  Government employees and those on getting the dole/subsidies should not be allowed to vote.  I will except those receiving money from programs they were forced to pay in to, as well as possibly combat arms of the military.

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 04, 2022, 10:23:41 AM
Once you abandon the outdated "high trust society" map of reality you are freed up to see things more accurately in the USA.

Voting has (probably always was) a controlled sham. We already live in a low trust empire of lies, a banana republic if you prefer. It's not coming, it's here, now, you're in it already. 

Admittedly, that truth doesn't give you high resolution answers to what is really going on. But adopting that view at a less detailed resolution allows you to not get jerked around and then having your expectations crushed.

It's really important to TPTB that we buy into the system. Once we opt out we start seeing all the incoherence and contradictions. Knowing we are living in an empire of lies has great explanatory powers. That doesn't actually tell us what is really going on, but it does keep us from naively accepting and  believing lies. You don't want to willingly believe lies do you? I'd rather admit I don't really know what's going on than believe demonstrable liars if those are my only two options.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 04, 2022, 11:55:27 AM
The Monster Hunter made it on to Twitchy.  :rofl:

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/09/04/lets-test-it-larry-correia-drops-decimates-and-destroys-david-french-for-mocking-the-rights-anger-over-bidens-speech/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 04, 2022, 01:18:12 PM
I didn't know several of the networks refused to air the speech

Quote
CBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox all refused to run the president’s address to the nation because they deemed it was “too political” ahead of the November midterm elections. The networks instead chose to air re-runs of their shows.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/04/these-networks-refused-to-air-bidens-hateful-speech-because-it-was-too-political-n2612646
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 04, 2022, 01:33:24 PM
I didn't know several of the networks refused to air the speech

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/04/these-networks-refused-to-air-bidens-hateful-speech-because-it-was-too-political-n2612646

Wow. Considering some of the networks mentioned, that is something. Perhaps it's more evidence of what I've been seeing personally in meatspace - liberal leaning people that I know starting to think that this has gone too far.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 04, 2022, 04:35:49 PM
Wow. Considering some of the networks mentioned, that is something. Perhaps it's more evidence of what I've been seeing personally in meatspace - liberal leaning people that I know starting to think that this has gone too far.

Or they figured it would just make Democrats look worse.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 04, 2022, 05:48:08 PM
They did that to Trump previously hadn't they? Red meat is only for the partisans maybe.

Leave the normies to their daydream, don't disturb their inattention. The networks can tell them what to believe about the speech and the base still get's their two minutes of hate.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Nick1911 on September 04, 2022, 11:09:46 PM
I've been pondering on this today.

It occurs to me that the intended audience of this speech is not democrats or maga trump supporters - it is mainstream republicans.  Basically what we'd call a fud - older folks that have conservative leanings, but are ultimately straight ticket party folks.  The speech tries to connect to them on their ideals. The speech then tries to vilify the maga folks to this group.  The administration is trying to drive a wedge between the mainstream, low information republican voter and the newer faction of maga folks who are more active, more aware, and more pissed off.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: RocketMan on September 05, 2022, 12:27:22 AM
I've been pondering on this today.

It occurs to me that the intended audience of this speech is not democrats or maga trump supporters - it is mainstream republicans.  Basically what we'd call a fud - older folks that have conservative leanings, but are ultimately straight ticket party folks.  The speech tries to connect to them on their ideals. The speech then tries to vilify the maga folks to this group.  The administration is trying to drive a wedge between the mainstream, low information republican voter and the newer faction of maga folks who are more active, more aware, and more pissed off.

That makes sense, given that fud repubs are a fairly large segment of the overall party.  Not a majority, but enough to be worth going after.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: kgbsquirrel on September 05, 2022, 12:50:01 AM
I've been pondering on this today.

It occurs to me that the intended audience of this speech is not democrats or maga trump supporters - it is mainstream republicans.  Basically what we'd call a fud - older folks that have conservative leanings, but are ultimately straight ticket party folks.  The speech tries to connect to them on their ideals. The speech then tries to vilify the maga folks to this group.  The administration is trying to drive a wedge between the mainstream, low information republican voter and the newer faction of maga folks who are more active, more aware, and more pissed off.

55% of everybody will push bodies into gas chambers and ovens if told to, or not if they see others refusing.  35% will refuse.  10% will do it even if they see someone else refusing.

The 10% are trying to convince the 55% that it's okay for them all to murder the 35%.  Good thing such a thing has never been successful previously...








Except in:

Burma.
Ukraine.
Cambodia.
Sierra Leone.
Algeria.
Bosnia.
Uganda.
Chechnya.
Nigeria.
Guatemala.
Ethiopia.
China.
Congo.
Sri Lanka.
Russia.
Azerbaijan.
And on, and on, and on...
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: DittoHead on September 05, 2022, 11:41:49 AM
several of the networks refused to air the speech
Good, they made the right choice on this one.

That makes sense, given that fud repubs are a fairly large segment of the overall party.  Not a majority, but enough to be worth going after.
Biden thinks (or at least says) that there are plenty of non-MAGA Republicans.
Quote from: Uncle Joe
Not every Republican, not even the majority of Republicans, are MAGA Republicans.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 05, 2022, 12:44:28 PM
Biden thinks (or at least says) that there are plenty of non-MAGA Republicans.

I think "MAGA Republicans" is a very hard term to nail down (not aimed at you, Dittohead, just my thoughts in general).

I don't think I was a "MAGA Republican" when Trump was in office. I reluctantly voted for him in 2016, and somewhat enthusiastically voted for him in 2020. I complained plenty about some of his decisions, so was not in the "Orange Man can do no wrong" camp. I never got into any of the MAGA hats, shirts, or other worshippy stuff while he was in office. I kinda thought that stuff was a little stupid.*

The first time I got anything MAGA related was when Biden et. al., started doing "Ultra MAGA". I bought the T-shirt the next day. It wasn't about Trump, but rather that I felt targeted simply because my Venn diagram and Trump's intersected in a few areas. It was an FU to people trying to make me into an extremist.

IMO, "MAGA Republican" today is a much larger and diverse camp than it was during Trump's presidency.


*ETA: JMO, but I've never been a fan of wearing shirts or hats for any candidate, not just Trump. Also yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. It's just not me. Not saying others shouldn't, just that I don't. I look at the "ultra MAGA" kind of how I look at Molon Labe.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 05, 2022, 09:16:17 PM
"MAGA Republicans" are definitely not just people who buy the merchandise. MAGA Republicans are whoever the Left decides to target.

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 05, 2022, 09:21:21 PM
"MAGA Republicans" are definitely not just people who buy the merchandise. MAGA Republicans are whoever the Left decides to target.

MAGA Republicans, formally just simply called Americans.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: French G. on September 05, 2022, 11:15:39 PM
55% of everybody will push bodies into gas chambers and ovens if told to, or not if they see others refusing.  35% will refuse.  10% will do it even if they see someone else refusing.

The 10% are trying to convince the 55% that it's okay for them all to murder the 35%.  Good thing such a thing has never been successful previously...








Except in:

Burma.
Ukraine.
Cambodia.
Sierra Leone.
Algeria.
Bosnia.
Uganda.
Chechnya.
Nigeria.
Guatemala.
Ethiopia.
China.
Congo.
Sri Lanka.
Russia.
Azerbaijan.
And on, and on, and on...

Over here in my corner it isnt going to happen and I don't care if the guy that builds the gas chambers is right, left, or baby xenu. I gotta use this ammo sometime.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 05, 2022, 11:36:42 PM
MAGA Republicans, formally just simply called Americans.

That too.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 06, 2022, 08:10:50 AM
MAGA Republicans, formally just simply called Americans.

Trying not to Gondwin the thread, but we are practically the new Jews. I saw on Reddit that people are blaming "the MAGA nuts" for the bad reviews of Amazon's Rings of Power. So I guess in some ways, Brandon's propaganda machine is having the desired effect. Though in the end, it may not be what they desire.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: DittoHead on September 06, 2022, 12:34:20 PM
*ETA: JMO, but I've never been a fan of wearing shirts or hats for any candidate, not just Trump. Also yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. It's just not me. Not saying others shouldn't, just that I don't.

It was weird when the Obama fans did it (and everyone here could see that), it's weird when the Trump fans do it - and they've taken it to a much higher level.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 06, 2022, 01:25:07 PM
...and they've taken it to a much higher level.

Can you provide examples?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: MechAg94 on September 06, 2022, 01:34:02 PM
Trying not to Gondwin the thread, but we are practically the new Jews. I saw on Reddit that people are blaming "the MAGA nuts" for the bad reviews of Amazon's Rings of Power. So I guess in some ways, Brandon's propaganda machine is having the desired effect. Though in the end, it may not be what they desire.
I have seen odd people bring politics into reviews of other stuff periodically before any of this.  I don't think online people like that give useful incite into the minds of most Americans.


IMO:
Obama fans were just as nuts before he took office.  The difference is that Obama's biggest supporters had high hopes and he disappointed some of his base especially after he made the racial divide worse and continued the overseas wars and drone strikes.  Trump did better as President than a lot of people were expecting so he maintained a lot of his core support.  Plus, a portion of his core support are/were Republican voters who were disenchanted with the party and don't really have a lot of other choices.

One thought:  If the media and Democrats had not gone to such an extent to attack and bad mouth Trump, would his abrasive behavior have turned off more of his core support?  By attacking him in so many different ways, I think they just solidified his support (at least among his base).
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 06, 2022, 02:57:22 PM
One thought:  If the media and Democrats had not gone to such an extent to attack and bad mouth Trump, would his abrasive behavior have turned off more of his core support?  By attacking him in so many different ways, I think they just solidified his support (at least among his base).

Absolutely. I'm an example of that. There were many of Trump's junior high antics that I didn't like, but the over the top attacks on him for them (and everything good he did as well) just had me supporting some of his stuff I didn't like out of spite against cancel and 1984 culture.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: JTHunter on September 06, 2022, 03:31:10 PM
You want to talk about "violence"???
Who shot up the Congressional ball game a few years ago?
Who rioted and burned cities like Seattle, Portland, etc.??
Who took over (and trashed) certain cities with their "occupation"?
Who is the member of Congress who called for people to be harassed and attacked in restaurants, theaters, etc., whenever possible??  (Maxine Waters among others.)


We need to keep throwing their own rhetoric back in their faces and show the world what kinds of liars and hypocrites they truly are.
  [popcorn]  >:D
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: DittoHead on September 06, 2022, 05:30:48 PM
Can you provide examples?
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/08/12/lens/12onpolitics-kaukauna/merlin_210973086_3dd36561-69c3-4352-879e-da2cc17c06fa-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 06, 2022, 06:12:55 PM
1860 all over again

Quote
Kathy Griffin
@kathygriffin
·
Follow
If you don’t want a Civil War, vote for Democrats in November. If you do want Civil War, vote Republican.
1:21 PM · Sep 6, 2022
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/09/06/you-guys-maga-blue-checks-are-suggesting-kathy-griffin-threatened-to-start-a-civil-war/
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 06, 2022, 06:20:56 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/08/12/lens/12onpolitics-kaukauna/merlin_210973086_3dd36561-69c3-4352-879e-da2cc17c06fa-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp)

Wonder how many lootings, window smashings, road blockings, car torchings, and beatings that person has done? You know how people who fly Canadian flags are.  :P
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 06, 2022, 06:50:41 PM
It was weird when the Obama fans did it (and everyone here could see that), it's weird when the Trump fans do it - and they've taken it to a much higher level.

It started before Obama. Way back when John *expletive deleted*ing Kerry was running I was at a union meeting at the local hall.
One of the elected union officers approached me to by a Kerry campaign shirt. I politely declined, no commentary, no political statement, nothing more than a polite " No thank you"  The woman lost her *expletive deleted*ing mind. I really thought she was going to physically assault me because I declined to buy a shirt,  not for criticism of her chosen candidate. A couple other union members got her away from. Plenty of people backed up my story, nobody sided with crazy girl. For the sake of "keeping the peace" I was asked to leave.
Last time a set foot in the hall.

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 06, 2022, 07:01:28 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/08/12/lens/12onpolitics-kaukauna/merlin_210973086_3dd36561-69c3-4352-879e-da2cc17c06fa-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp)

(https://townsquare.media/site/385/files/2012/04/Obama-Flag-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: lee n. field on September 06, 2022, 07:19:31 PM
OK, finally watched the speech through to the end.  (Watching any political speech, even from someone I might like, is very hard for me.  I keep turning it off every few seconds.  Anyways...)

What blather.

Questions come to my mind.. Who thought this was a good idea?  (Not Joe.  He doesn't come across as all there.) Who's this for -- the target audience?  How many people were on site listening to this?   I didn't near much audience response.  If there's anything like a thinking Left, how are they reacting?

And, what I kept thinking (hearing Londo Molari's voice in my mind's ear) was "You're afraid (https://youtu.be/wR7n4Gg-_ac?t=57), aren't you?   They're afraid."

"Them Magapublicans, they kidnap Christian babies and eat them in secret ceremonies!"
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 06, 2022, 07:20:23 PM
Donald Trump is a moderate left old school civic nationalist. Old school being 1980 for the fruit flies who don't even remember what 2018 was like let alone anything previous.

He is now called by everyone including establishment Republicans the apotheosis of everything fascist and hard core right.

It really is a joke.   

The neocons (neither new or conservative), the never Trumpers, the establishment Republican are all the same beast. They are leftist progressives as are the libertarians btw ("edited to add"  - more accurate than the label leftists they are actually post modernist nihilists). Many don't even have enough self awareness to realize it themselves. The others with awareness know exactly what they are and what they are doing.

If you aren't anchored to transcendent truth, the traditions of objective truth, then you are adrift.
The ratchet only clicks one way and Cthulhu only swims to the left. (https://www.andysowards.com/blog/assets/cthulhu_by_veprikov-d359mq0.jpg)

Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 06, 2022, 07:23:11 PM

"Them Magapublicans, they kidnap Christian babies and eat them in secret ceremonies!"

I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 07, 2022, 11:14:04 AM
I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?

Where do you think the babies for the buffet come from?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: kgbsquirrel on September 07, 2022, 08:53:49 PM
Where do you think the babies for the buffet come from?

PlannedParenthood
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on September 07, 2022, 10:39:15 PM
PlannedParenthood

That's for the BBQs.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 08, 2022, 01:24:36 PM
I guess those that want to keep Biden in office are now extremists.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/most-want-biden-impeached-see-gop-dropping-ball
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 08, 2022, 02:39:43 PM
Trump supporter gets shot and killed
Woman: Awesome!


I’ll just leave this here. #MAGA
https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/1567640173164302342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567640173164302342%7Ctwgr%5E4b0f1cc92104ee6b4d9d6248fc94f8b69bb5814c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2022%2F09%2F08%2Fwho-they-really-are-portlanders-response-to-trump-supporter-being-shot-and-killed-is-jaw-droppingly-hateful-watch%2F
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 08, 2022, 03:56:43 PM
I thought we were kidnapping feminists, and forcing them to have babies (and lowering their taxes). Have I been doing it wrong?

https://www.al.com/news/2022/09/pregnant-women-held-for-months-in-one-alabama-jail-to-protect-fetuses-from-drugs.html

Alabama police indefinitely detaining pregnant women, no trial, no bail.  The argument is that they are deliberately curtailing abortions.

Quote
Police arrested Ashley Banks on May 25 with a small amount of marijuana and a pistol without a permit to carry.

Under normal circumstances, the 23-year-old from Gadsden would have been able to post bond and leave jail until her criminal trial. But Banks admitted to smoking pot on the same day she found out she was pregnant – two days before her arrest. In Etowah County, that meant she couldn’t leave jail unless she entered drug rehab, leaving her in limbo for three months.



The neocons (neither new or conservative), the never Trumpers, the establishment Republican are all the same beast. They are leftist progressives as are the libertarians btw ("edited to add"  - more accurate than the label leftists they are actually post modernist nihilists). Many don't even have enough self awareness to realize it themselves. The others with awareness know exactly what they are and what they are doing.

If you aren't anchored to transcendent truth, the traditions of objective truth, then you are adrift.


I'd argue that libertarians are nihilists towards subjectivity.  They embrace the truest objective law there is:  If an individual has no power to do a thing, then neither has government.  Government is derived from consent and empowerment of the people, and those people are metaphysically and morally incapable of empowering a thing with power they do not themselves possess.  Just because they are nihilists towards your perceived right to impose on others, along with the Left's perceived right to impose on others in a different way, doesn't make them left progressive.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 08, 2022, 04:15:51 PM
Trump supporter gets shot and killed
Woman: Awesome!


I’ll just leave this here. #MAGA
https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/1567640173164302342?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567640173164302342%7Ctwgr%5E4b0f1cc92104ee6b4d9d6248fc94f8b69bb5814c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fsamj-3930%2F2022%2F09%2F08%2Fwho-they-really-are-portlanders-response-to-trump-supporter-being-shot-and-killed-is-jaw-droppingly-hateful-watch%2F

Didn't someone on the Twitters laugh at a NASCAR fan being killed at the track, because they "probably" supported Trump?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2022, 06:23:56 PM
I'd argue that libertarians are nihilists towards subjectivity.  They embrace the truest objective law there is:  If an individual has no power to do a thing, then neither has government.  Government is derived from consent and empowerment of the people, and those people are metaphysically and morally incapable of empowering a thing with power they do not themselves possess.  Just because they are nihilists towards your perceived right to impose on others, along with the Left's perceived right to impose on others in a different way, doesn't make them left progressive.
I argue that the end result is a moral hellscape and is utterly dys-civilizational. The whole LGBTQ+ confusion and the demanding access to children is fundamentally nihilist and libertine. It's libertarian to it's core.

That pointless and yes, subjective view of reality is what allows the exploitation of children for adult carnal desires. Exploitation by the actual physical abuse of minors. Or the programming, conditioning and grooming them to accept and/or join the ranks of the LGBTQ+ delusion.

When the perverts have gained control of the levers of power and are allowed to indoctrinate minors in their perversion under the cover of minor childrens rights and liberty to choose and the perverts rights and liberties to be accepted, any social contract that was holding civilization together has failed. This isn't some libertarian paradise but a hellscape. Nihilists have completely failed to show up and take a stand about how fundamentally wrong grooming children into accepting dysfunctional sexuality really is, crickets. Widespread dysfunctional families and sexuality is civilizational death. 

That this isn't obvious to everyone by now is a testament to the decades of psy-ops that have been perpetrated on the populace.  A culture of confusion, intellectually, morally and spiritually confused. It's actually antihuman.

 
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: MechAg94 on September 08, 2022, 07:24:36 PM
I think the reaction to the grooming is still ramping up.  I have heard a number of school boards have been overturned in elections across Texas and Florida.  I have not seen numbers so I have no idea how widespread it is.  The Texas legislature goes into session in January so I figure some legislation about it will be debated.  However, liberal bastions such as Houston and Dallas will probably continue on along with leftist parts of other states.  So there will still be examples going around online.  Things can sometimes happen very fast in politics, but often changes take time.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 08, 2022, 07:28:59 PM
I argue that the end result is a moral hellscape and is utterly dys-civilizational. The whole LGBTQ+ confusion and the demanding access to children is fundamentally nihilist and libertine. It's libertarian to it's core.
That is an untrue statement. A philosophy that maximizes personal freedom doesn't require demanding access to others.

That pointless and yes, subjective view of reality is what allows the exploitation of children for adult carnal desires. Exploitation by the actual physical abuse of minors. Or the programming, conditioning and grooming them to accept and/or join the ranks of the LGBTQ+ delusion.
Libertarian politics does not require a subjective view of reality, or even morality. Certainly there are some libertarians that are also nihilists,  but there are also some that are strongly moral, and even strongly Christian.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2022, 07:57:22 PM
That is an untrue statement. A philosophy that maximizes personal freedom doesn't require demanding access to others.
Libertarian politics does not require a subjective view of reality, or even morality. Certainly there are some libertarians that are also nihilists,  but there are also some that are strongly moral, and even strongly Christian.
I agree that there are Christian libertarians. I voted for Ron Paul in '88 myself. Subscribed to the FEE magazine and read it well into the 90's. Since then I've found libertarianism to be mostly incompatible with Christianity IF you take libertarianism to its logical conclusions. It's an ideology with a human being sized hole in it. It doesn't scale up to functioning civilization. It contains some truth(s) but it's a failure as a cultural and national ideology. In the realm of morality libertarians have shown to be incredibly naïve.

The arguments in favor of grooming minors by exposing them to sexual content in the media, the schools, in libraries etc. are all libertarian arguments of freedom. Freedom for the minors to escape parental authority and have autonomy as well as freedom for the perverts to have access to minors for recruitment, under the guise of "education", compassion and mentoring.
 
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 08, 2022, 08:08:19 PM
I think we should all have noticed by now that libertarianism seems to be whatever any self-professed libertarian says it is.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 08, 2022, 09:59:46 PM

The arguments in favor of grooming minors by exposing them to sexual content in the media, the schools, in libraries etc. are all libertarian arguments of freedom. Freedom for the minors to escape parental authority and have autonomy as well as freedom for the perverts to have access to minors for recruitment, under the guise of "education", compassion and mentoring.
 

Except schools as they exist today aren't libertarian at all.  They're antithetical to libertarianism. 

Libertarianism professes the extreme and utmost ownership of one's own progeny until they are acknowledged by their parents as being of majority; not deemed so by an arbitrary count of years and interference by a State power.  No other person may intrude on your standards of raising and educating your children, nor free them from your prescribed regimen.

Hell, even the existence of libraries is antithetical to libertarian doctrine if you boil it down.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 08:50:00 AM
Except schools as they exist today aren't libertarian at all.  They're antithetical to libertarianism. 

Libertarianism professes the extreme and utmost ownership of one's own progeny until they are acknowledged by their parents as being of majority; not deemed so by an arbitrary count of years and interference by a State power.  No other person may intrude on your standards of raising and educating your children, nor free them from your prescribed regimen.

Hell, even the existence of libraries is antithetical to libertarian doctrine if you boil it down.
Just read what you wrote. Libertarianism has some good explanatory power for some stuff and offers some better ways of doing some things but doesn't scale up to a functioning civilization. It's a utopian pipe dream that has a faulty view of humanity. You end up with degenerates bringing their children to watch male perverts pretending they're women pole dancing while dressed like demons. You end up with the most broken in society drugged out of their minds living on the streets. You end up with faceless, rapacious global corporations manipulating all of society to enrich those running and financing the companies to the detriment of society, you end up with the total collapse of family and cultural institutions all in the name of Muh Freedom!

This isn't all on libertarianism but libertarianism does nothing to halt the collapse and actually empowers it in the name of individual freedom. Individuals have actually become powerless in the face of the onslaught of phony liberty. Real freedom has been lost and exchanged for licentiousness.
Learn to code
Build your own institutions
You be you
Do your own thing
Let your freak flag fly
Love is love
Just be nice
There are dozens of supposed pro personal liberty pat answers that stopped good people from slowing the descent into chaos. The manipulators in society used the opium of phony personal freedom while enslaving the country in some dystopian system of global economic slavery. You will own nothing and eat the bugs.
Libertarianism has greatly contributed to the atomization of the people and leaves us looking around at the wreckage the wolves have left in their wake wondering wth happened? 
All in the name of fweedom!
Libertarianism has some good explanatory power in some limited domains but ultimately over promises and under delivers. Coming next "It's never really been tried by the right people!" Oh wait... isn't that what the commies always say?

We're not economic units and as the saying goes, no man is an island. Consumerism isn't a healthy replacement for a culture that pursues the transcendent virtuous, true and beautiful.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2022, 09:27:14 AM
Quote
You end up with degenerates bringing their children to watch male perverts pretending they're women pole dancing while dressed like demons. You end up with the most broken in society drugged out of their minds living on the streets. You end up with faceless, rapacious global corporations manipulating all of society to enrich those running and financing the companies to the detriment of society, you end up with the total collapse of family and cultural institutions all in the name of Muh Freedom!

We have all that now, without individual liberty.

And it's not like decades of Libertarian Party control has led to this point in American History.  Certainly small l libertarianism requires you to let people make bad choices and suffer those choices.  Druggies on the street being an obvious one.  Nothing in libertarian philosophy requires you to agree with those choices, enable those choices, or mentally stroke the people making bad choices off so they feel good and safe.

You also don't have to follow [any] political theory into the depths of reductio ad absurdum to think it'd be a good idea to mix some more of it's ideas into our stew.  Would Galt's Gulch work in real life? No, it's fictional and people sometimes act like aholes.  Is making "Smaller government and more individual responsibility" the default answer to a governmental question unless there's *very* compelling reason to add government?  In my view, Yes.  Especially since we are overburdened with government and lack of responsibility from our current "competing" political parties.

If we ever get the pendulum so far back towards individual liberty that the [admittedly real] issues that a strict, Randian political philosophy reear there heads, then we can talk about tempering the liberty a little.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 09:33:09 AM
Globalism, the deindustrialization of the USA rode into town using libertarianism as its Trojan Horse. Same with the LGBTQ+ insanity.

Not laying it all at our feet but I leaned hard into libertarianism and rejected Pat Buchannan back when he was sounding the alarm like an Old Testament prophet.

Turns out ol' Pat was right and I was catastrophically wrong.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2022, 09:48:06 AM
I would argue that that was the result of American Liberalism, which is most assuredly NOT Libertarianism.

The current state of LGBTQ+ started in the Sexual Revolution of the 60's, and those people were Socialists first and foremost.

I will agree that the political libertarians sided with the Liberals (and some other tiny parties) on many of the social issues in the 80's and 90's but I don't think libertarians ever had enough power, social or political, to get stuff left at their feet.

The current state of LGBTQ+ is strongly authoritarian, and most of the libertarians I know IRL are not fervent supporters of [critical drinker voice]The Message tm [/critical drinker voice]
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 10:15:34 AM
I just remember the cog dis I felt as a Classical Liberal and born again Christian reading The Foundation for Economic Educations magazine. In hindsight I see now how they used the classic propaganda manipulation technique of pacing and leading on deindustrialization, globalism and LGBTQ+ issues. They were big among Classical Liberals, I wore that moniker for awhile myself and they were also popular among libertarians.

I know you guys hate when I say it but libertarianism has functioned as a stalking horse for the post modernist licentiousness we now call personal freedom, the "freedom" of the leftists. All the "good" parts of libertarianism were rejected and the foundationless personal autonomy, my body my rights part was elevated to primary importance along with globalism. It helped rot out the country from the inside morally and made us subjects to those who run global supply chains.

   
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2022, 10:20:32 AM
Ron, do you think the problems you're talking about are really problems with libertarianism, or are they problems with our culture? Our religious beliefs, or lack thereof?

Would it be fair to say that libertarianism may work as a political philosophy, but not as a personal belief system, or as a social order?

I guess I've approached it that way. Legally, I think you have a right to put heroin in your body if you decide to. Personally, morally, I would urge you not to. Legally, I think you have a right to be a sexual profligate. Personally, morally, I would urge you not to. I think we're expecting a political system to be a fully-inclusive guide to our own personal behavior. It's not really suited to that.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: cordex on September 09, 2022, 10:23:30 AM
Ron, it seems to me that you're confusing limited platform overlap with a nefarious plan.

Couldn't a leftist equally say "those Libertarians come in here with their righteous positions about being in favor of killing babies, lack of borders, and legal dope, but that's just a Trojan horse to sneak in their abhorrent beliefs about allowing free speech and guns!"?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2022, 10:29:42 AM
Ron, it seems to me that you're confusing limited platform overlap with a nefarious plan.

Couldn't a leftist equally say "those Libertarians come in here with their righteous positions about being in favor of killing babies, lack of borders, and legal dope, but that's just a Trojan horse to sneak in their abhorrent beliefs about allowing free speech and guns!"?

I'm pretty sure they do that from time to time, though I don't have the receipts.

You'd think baby-killing would plainly be against that whole non-aggression thing for Libertarians, but a lot of them manage to get past that one, somehow.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 10:35:02 AM
Ron, do you think the problems you're talking about are really problems with libertarianism, or are they problems with our culture? Our religious beliefs, or lack thereof?

Would it be fair to say that libertarianism may work as a political philosophy, but not as a personal belief system, or as a social order?

Myself, I still believe a lot of libertarian concepts are good and work in limited domains. They just don't scale up well in my opinion. And yes, the economic principles have been used as a stalking horse to destroy traditional morality.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2022, 10:36:18 AM
Would it be fair to say that libertarianism may work as a political philosophy, but not as a personal belief system

I think that's a good way to phrase it.  (I dropped social order from the quote because that's more complicated, not that I necessarily disagree).

I think that's also true of any healthy political philosophy.  It needs some good personal belief system to rest on.  Lots of folks around here have mentioned that the Constitution only works for a moral people, and the same holds true of any other good political philosophy.  (Communism doesn't work regardless of morality).


That may be the core of why the recent "woke" folks are so toxic and annoying.  They internalized their political beliefs as a morality system.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 10:44:45 AM
Ron, it seems to me that you're confusing limited platform overlap with a nefarious plan.

Couldn't a leftist equally say "those Libertarians come in here with their righteous positions about being in favor of killing babies, lack of borders, and legal dope, but that's just a Trojan horse to sneak in their abhorrent beliefs about allowing free speech and guns!"?

There are a lot of moving pieces that got us here.  Whether there is a nefarious plan by mortals besides the normal entropy of human institutions I couldn't prove, other than pointing out where it sure likes like that's what's going on. Of course as a Christian I believe there is a spiritual component due to the entropy of sin and actual malign evil spiritual influence that "seeks to work us woe", desiring our corruption, death and separation from God.

As Classical Liberals and libertarians we have failed to hold on to our culture and nation and have ceded ground to the enemy by embracing lies. We can wake up and reject the lies if we want.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 09, 2022, 01:05:39 PM
I think Ron is right about libertarianism.

If you ask people lots of questions about their moral values and what the find acceptable, libertarians are much closer to leftists than conservatives.  Both leftists and libertarians tend to have zero respect for tradition and authority.  Respect for legitimate authority and tradition is the major part of conservatism. 

The major way that libertarians differ from leftists is that libertarians rate low on care for other people.

The Righteous Mind by Johnathan Haidt discusses this issue- the different moral world views of leftists, conservatives, and libertarians.

Widespread graphic immorality- drug abuse, prostitution, open homosexuality, fornication, pornography- are all things that make countries worse places to live... and libertarians are okay with this.  These things are rotting the fabric of our society, though they are "victimless" crimes.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: cordex on September 09, 2022, 01:08:17 PM
Widespread graphic immorality- drug abuse, prostitution, open homosexuality, fornication, pornography- are all things that make countries worse places to live... and libertarians are okay with this.  These things are rotting the fabric of our society, though they are "victimless" crimes.
Just out of curiosity, what power are you prepared to give to the government in order to restrict or eliminate those particular issues of morality?
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2022, 01:23:52 PM

Widespread graphic immorality- drug abuse, prostitution, open homosexuality, fornication, pornography- are all things that make countries worse places to live... and libertarians are okay with this.  These things are rotting the fabric of our society, though they are "victimless" crimes.

I think you have, at best, a correlation/ causation issue here. Iran, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea all have low rates of those sins, and are not great places to live,  The Netherlands has legalized and embraced much of that, and while I don't want to live there personally, by all accounts it's pretty nice in the day to day living. As is Bahrain (compared to the rest of the Islamic run world.

The US's problems stem from out of control Collectivism,  not sex and drugs. The Collectivism and the Sex were just brought into the mainstream by the same people, so people think they are the same thing.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 09, 2022, 01:35:30 PM
Just out of curiosity, what power are you prepared to give to the government in order to restrict or eliminate those particular issues of morality?

It depends on the issue... for example, I think prostitution should be illegal, and probably most drug abuse.  It should be illegal for school to promote homosexuality to children.  I think adultery should be illegal as it use to be, and produce significant consequences in divorce settlements, and "alienation of affection" lawsuits.

About fornication, nothing can really be done in a legal sense.  Society could condemn it, rather than promote it, at least.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
Just out of curiosity, what power are you prepared to give to the government in order to restrict or eliminate those particular issues of morality?

^^This.

Also, one has to be eternally careful of confusing libertarianism as a means of operating a government (a political philosophy) with a means of living a fulfilling life (a moral philosophy or dogma).  Morally, I'm a stoic objectivist.  Politically, I'm an ancap libertarian.  Teaching my boy, I'm teaching him stoic objectivism as a moral code.  He is free to supplant that with whatever he finds wholesome as he gets older... even free to do so as a youth as long as he can support his stance.  His grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins are all LDS and he's free to choose to pursue that faith or any other if he expresses interest.  It comes up in conversation every few months as holidays come by or cousins have confirmations or whatever or marriages or funerals find us incorrigible heathens in churches. 

I'm actually very open to him chasing a faith.  I would say I have some degree of envy for those of you who actually do believe in an identifiable God as a higher power, and can accept the dogma of Mary's virgin conception and all of that.  I genuinely don't believe it and think it's hooey.  Things sure are easier if you do believe it though.  You've got all this pre-printed and pre-formulated syllabus material to use to adopt a halfway decent moral code, and can use it for raising children with decent morals.  It's exhausting finding ways to illustrate good vs bad decisions, even more so at a meta level, without sacred objects or statements or displeasure of omnipotent beings.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 09, 2022, 01:50:35 PM
The US's problems stem from out of control Collectivism,  not sex and drugs. The Collectivism and the Sex were just brought into the mainstream by the same people, so people think they are the same thing.

I think the Saudis have plenty of perverse sex, given what I have read about the Saudi royal family, and rampant boy rape in Islamic countries regardless if what the law says.  The North Koreans have squads of sex slaves for government officials.

And frankly, even if the Saudis and North Koreans don't practice these things, it is not vice laws that make them crap, it is everything else they do... ie, Islam and Communism.

Denmark has a rotten culture, like the USA, though I don't know which is worse.

The United States publicly embraces and promotes vice.  I have kids, all this is being preached to them by the government and every major media outlet.  I want my kids to marry people of the opposite sex (why do I even have to say that), not get divorced, and have legitimate children that they care for.  I don't want them to decide they are the opposite sex, and get castrated!!!  I want healthy, happy grandkids. 

Our families are turning to garbage, with a bastardy rate of over 40% and a divorce rate around the same.  I think there is no doubt that vile morals contribute greatly to bastardry and divorce.

If you think fornication, adultery, prostitution, homosexual sodomy and drug abuse aren't problems, we will agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2022, 02:44:38 PM
I think adultery should be illegal as it use to be, and produce significant consequences in divorce settlements, and "alienation of affection" lawsuits.

Adultery was illegal? When was that?

I'm not sure divorce should be as easy as it has become, especially when children are involved.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Bogie on September 09, 2022, 03:02:14 PM
Personally, I think it should be more difficult to get married.
 
And I am STILL hoping that there is a TV reality show called Gay Divorce Court.
 
I also think that there should be a license for procreation. No bag limit, but you have to at least prove competence about a few things.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2022, 03:33:52 PM

I also think that there should be a license for procreation. No bag limit, but you have to at least prove competence about a few things.

Please tell me you're not serious.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2022, 03:35:08 PM
Personally, I think it should be more difficult to get married.
 
And I am STILL hoping that there is a TV reality show called Gay Divorce Court.
 
I also think that there should be a license for procreation. No bag limit, but you have to at least prove competence about a few things.

Licenses for biological functions?  How utterly Communist/Authoritarian.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: dogmush on September 09, 2022, 05:29:09 PM
Many humans skew very Authoritarian in their beliefs, as long as it's their sort of authoritarianism.  American Conservatives are not immune to this.  Neither are Christians.  They are also not alone in it.

It seems to be part of human nature to think your tribe is right, and if you could just *make* the other tribes do it for a bit, they'd see it and all will be well.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: WLJ on September 09, 2022, 05:47:34 PM
Many people support things like communism because they're convinced they'll be the ones in charge. *cough* AOC *cough*
Most aren't aware that people like them usually find their backs to the wall once their usefulness runs out.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2022, 06:38:33 PM
Many humans skew very Authoritarian in their beliefs, as long as it's their sort of authoritarianism.  American Conservatives are not immune to this.  Neither are Christians.  They are also not alone in it.

It seems to be part of human nature to think your tribe is right, and if you could just *make* the other tribes do it for a bit, they'd see it and all will be well.

If we just made all them millennial zoomer punks serve 2 years in the military,  it'd straighten things right out!
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 09, 2022, 07:11:43 PM
Well we see where see where post modernism leads, civilizational decline and probable collapse.

We don't know where libertarianism ends because its never been tried by the right people, everybody is getting it wrong apparently. Don't blame us.

Moral value systems not based on acknowledging transcendent reality are nothing more than personal preference. Even the ancient Stoics acknowledged the Logos, the good, the true and the beautiful. Otherwise your morality is disconnected from any mooring and ends up in the course of generations with perverts grooming and abusing children, degradation of the populace and societal decline. The patterns are there to see in history for those with eyes to see, it's not esoteric hidden knowledge.

Ancap libertarianism would look different than the globalism we have today where international corporations dictate to a large extent the way society runs?  All we've done is ended up with the worst perversions of both ancap and libertarianism. You've got your feeding stalls, barn to sleep in, treadmill to run or field to plow and your fweedom to be a decadent moral reprobate so you can forget your misery by more and more extreme perversion and intoxication.

Freeriding on the former Christian (ized) culture is coming to an end and we are getting to see the fruit of post modernist nihilism in its many guises.

Side note, unless you acknowledge the miracle of the creation we're surrounded by and the creator who made and sustains it, speaking of miracles will just sound like hooey. Got to go back to the first principles and unprovable suppositions you are starting with. We all have unprovable suppositions at the ground floor of belief system.

I won't beat this horse here anymore, we haven't had one of these for a while! Don't take the shots at libertarianism personally as they weren't intended that way. I was a self described classical liberal when I joined here.



Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Bogie on September 09, 2022, 08:24:31 PM
Hey, just give them a multiple choice test:
 
Your toddler just projectile vomited spaghetti all over your new sofa. What do you do?
 
a) Beat him until he understands he shouldn't do that.
 
b) Don't feed him spaghetti again.
 
c) Clean the mess up.
 
d) Call the police.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 09, 2022, 09:41:12 PM


I won't beat this horse here anymore, we haven't had one of these for a while! Don't take the shots at libertarianism personally as they weren't intended that way. I was a self described classical liberal when I joined here.

I love when these threads come up here as long as they remain civil, and I think this one has thus far.  Some of your statements do come across as over-generalized and do feel like personal attacks, lumping all libertarians into one godless sinful hedonistic pot >:D, but I think that's more the constant defense that libertarians have to wage against both left and right, who don't grok the extent that authoritarian policy in any direction is repulsive to libertarians, without a clear-cut violation of innocent property or life... and that in "sensitive grey areas" involving innocent property or life that libertarians will favor siding with individual autonomy over blanket authoritarian edict.  I'm lumping your attacks in with equally ill informed ones from Antifa types (equally unfair to you) that see us AnCaps as even more devil incarnate than dumb bible thumping 'Murica *let's not go there* (in their terms).  The dedication we have to immutable and inflexible absolute individual rights, transcending any citeable law or philosophy, brings out the REEEEEEE! in their little Marxist steampot of a brain.

For every drifter bum libertarian pot smoker in a microbus or beat up RV, there's a bow-tie clad Milton Friedman fan, or Amash/Napolitano style Christian libertarian somewhere else.  It's a political party inherently NOT interested in unity, which is why that microbus pot smoker can meet up with bow-tie guy and the Christian guy and work well on a project they all care about, or otherwise find a means of engaging in commerce or productive exchange with one another, because they respect one anothers' boundaries and rights to those boundaries.  I see this every summer at our local Jackalope Freedom Festival that's been going for 11 years now.  You might find some Anarcho-Mutualists in the mix, but they're not so bad.  They're not going to burn down your business; it's the Syndicalists and Communists that do that stuff, and they steer clear of libertarians, AnCaps, or anything Agorist in nature.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ron on September 10, 2022, 09:45:04 AM
Ancap and libertarianism are appealing to me in an intellectual way. I just find that they have a human size whole in them regarding human nature. They might work for a different sentient species that isn't as broken as humans. Certainly that type of society populated with the proper people could work, just like many other political systems (I think dogmush said something similar earlier). Humans seem to have an inherent self destruct feature. Hence the reason you are probably attracted to stoicism, it helps put boundaries on behavior and contextualizes the ups and downs of life in a detached manner. I've read a lot of stoicism and believe as a philosophy it contains much truth. The Christian pursuit of self examination and earthly sanctification is a very stoical lifestyle. The purported oldest writing in the bible, the book of Job, advocates for a very stoic outlook for our time on earth, yet also provides hope. It avoids the traps of fatalism and nihilism while still dealing with the very real potential horrors we may face in life.

Certainly there is common ground for discussion on these issues without being insulting or condescending. As a lifelong internet arguer that can be difficult for me  :P  Sussing out what is actually good, true and beautiful and how to maximize their expression in society I think should be the goal for society/civilization.



Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Pb on September 10, 2022, 10:15:56 AM
Adultery was illegal? When was that?

I'm not sure divorce should be as easy as it has become, especially when children are involved.

I just looked it up, adultery is actually still illegal in a sizable minority of the country, including my own state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery_laws#United_States

I agree with this- I think marriage laws should be altered to make marriage a real, legal contract with duties of the parties spelled out, and legal consequences of breaking the marriage contract (such as adultery, abandonment etc.) 

No fault divorce was a mistake.  Making adultery irrelevant in divorce proceedings is obscene.  This one of the reasons for the decline of marriage.  Large numbers of men have no wish to be married to a woman who can divorce them for no reason, steal half their belongings, their house, and take their kids, and force them to pay monthly ("child support") for the privilege of being victimized.
Title: Re: Not with the Majority? EXTREMIST!
Post by: Ben on September 21, 2022, 12:57:57 PM
The Republican extremists have struck again, though it doesn't seem to have been picked up by the MSM.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/09/21/msm-dont-think-man-confessing-to-politically-motivated-vehicular-homicide-of-republican-teen-is-worth-covering-for-some-reason/