Author Topic: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax  (Read 40930 times)

MechAg94

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2008, 04:49:59 AM »
A few posts back you were singin' the blues about laying any mo' taxes on the po' blue collar working folks with the 10 year old trucks, yada, yada.  Now you're telling me they're doing fine.  Which is it?

A .50 cent tax ain't nothin' compared to the doubling of gas prices over the last few years.  That single ripoff has a way more destructive effect on working people than any other one thing (and there are many).  GAs prices have doubled for several reasons, but the primary ones are: 1) We've gone from the largest creditor nation in the 70's to the largest debtor nation today. 2) We've sent tons of our money over to China in exchange for their cheap third world plastic fantastic made in sweatshops crap.  So they have plenty of money to compete with us for oil.  3) Mergers and Acquisitions.  Oil companies are once again becoming monopolies.  We need another Theodore Roosevelt to bust 'em up, just like he did with Standard Oil and others.

You complain about payroll taxes?  I agree.  And do you know where the largest payroll tax came from?  Ronald Reagan impose the biggest increase on social security taxes before or since.  It amounted to $trillions, which he and Greenspan ripped off and spent.

And what else?  Oh yeah, you don't like 'regulations'.  Thinks like workplace safety standards and worker's comp.  It's too burdensome for the fatcat college educated oil company executive and owning yuppies you have such disdain for.   You think if a man is hurt on the job with substandard equipment, he should just be tossed out on the street, like they do in China?  That's not the way we do things in the U.S.


Hey, don't try to dump this back on me.  You were the one wanting to add an poorly conceived tax on America.  You are the one complaining about evil corporations dumping on American workers.  I was just addressing that a bit and trying to point out a few things.  You also seem to be assuming a lot about what my views are.  Like I said, start a new thread on some of that so we can get everyone into it.  Smiley
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K Frame

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2008, 05:59:43 AM »
None of you want to pay more in taxes?

Why do you all hate America so much?
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longeyes

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2008, 06:20:47 AM »
Interesting--but why stop at 50c?  Why not go for the gold?  Two, three dollars?  Smiley

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Paddy

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2008, 06:45:01 AM »
OK, I see the error of my ways now.  We can't take the chance of reducing our dependence on foreign oil because that's what keeps us in continuing 'wars'.  Without war, this economy can't survive.

Got it.

Manedwolf

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2008, 06:58:48 AM »
We can reduce dependence on foreign oil by using our own energy.

Raising taxes never accomplished a damned thing but raising taxes.


Scout26

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2008, 07:26:23 AM »
Quote
Were democrats dropped on their head as children or something?


Nope, MW, they were dribbled......
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Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
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Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

grampster

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2008, 10:13:36 AM »

"grampster, you get further out all the time.  Now the destruction of the middle class, according to you, is the result of the Radical Feminist Movement.  rolleyes  I don't know whether to classify that as hilarious or pathetic. laugh"


Apparently you weren't paying much attention to the fall out caused by radical feminists.  They sold the siren song of careerism in the place of family.  It started in the 60's and was fueled by the beginnings of the energy crunch that began in the early 70's.  Our best and brightest on both sides of the aisle refused, were too stupid, or were frightened into doing absolutely nothing about dealing with the cultural changes that were occurring along along with the looming energy problems that the paradigm of mass consumerism would bring because of the laws of supply and demand falling into place. None of them anticipated the power that oil money would bring to the tribalist overlords in the Middle East.

In fact House of Saud oil money was used to bribe the Wahhabist movement in Saudi Arabia.  If we'd gotten serious about exploiting within, and along the coast of America our rich supplies of coal, oil and gas as well as nuclear power 30 some years ago, we would have been better able to handle the cultural change that occurred.  Thanks to obstructionist democrats and RINO's and bending over for the radical environmentalists, here we are.

Handled properly, free trade should bring more prosperity to America.  Sadly your, primarily, Democrat friends along with the RINO's managed to screw that up as well by not insisting on some tit for tat, rather than throwing open the floodgates.  It also occurs to me, your friend Clinton was in office when NAFTA was OK'd, if that even matters now.
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Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2008, 10:50:27 AM »
Yeah, that cultural change really sucks when it no longer benefits you. From my point of view, it was a pretty goddamned good thing since being a dependent isn't really my idea of bliss.

Strings

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2008, 12:19:44 PM »
Actually Barbara, there were changes that went quite a bit beyond that. There were definite benefits to women, yes. But the (piss-poor) handling of the whole situation left some rather large problems for society to face...

 Suddenly, you have latch-key kids that have little or no supervision after school, parents that are both so tired after working all day that they can't really parent, folks that are so driven by consumerism that family becomes an afterthought... like I said, lots of problems.

 Of course, this all could've been avoided by skipping that whole "womens' sufferage" thing... Tongue

 Yes, I know that there are lots more causes than just the massive "careerism" push the radical feminists made. But it WAS a major contributing factor. Even more so, since the way it was handled was poor, and the consumerism push that came along didn't help matters.

 You have to remember, Barbara, that you're something of an oddball: a parent that cared about their kids, and did what was "right for the family", not just what was "right for you". I get to see LOTS of kids that the parents made the decisions the opposite way...

Gewehr98

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2008, 03:30:01 PM »
I remember the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo.

Everything old is new again, go figure.

Maybe when we run out of liquified prehistoric algae and zooplankton (latest estimate around 2039), we can go drill Europa or Pluto for hydrocarbons?  We'll definitely need tax revenue for that.  Wink
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Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2008, 04:37:46 PM »
It has nothing to do with having a career or not having one. If someone's family decides that one career is enough to get them by, great. But I'll be damned if I'm going back to a world where I'm relegated to assistant or where I can't have certain jobs because you can't expect men to listen to women or where I have to stay with a man who treats me badly because I don't have any other options. You don't like how it turned out? Too bad. Move to Saudi Arabia.

For me, its not any less of a danger than the nutjobs who think guns shouldn't be allowed in schools and hospitals because they're scary.

Strings

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2008, 09:48:01 PM »
Not saying you should. Saying that there might have been some things handled better by society, in transitioning from "woman's place is in the home" to "woman's place is on the job"...

LadySmith

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2008, 04:19:31 AM »
Not saying you should. Saying that there might have been some things handled better by society, in transitioning from "woman's place is in the home" to "woman's place is on the job"...
Please expound upon this because I come from a long line of women who had to work, where staying at home was not an option and for whom the concept of being a stay-at-home mom was practically a myth.

Back to the OP, I suspect a successful gas tax would trigger a backlash against environmental movements and policies that prevent us from utilizing our own oil resources.
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Werewolf

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2008, 07:00:11 AM »
Back to the OP, I suspect a successful gas tax would trigger a backlash against environmental movements and policies that prevent us from utilizing our own oil resources.
Hmmmmm...

That seems very much like a GOOD thing?
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grampster

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2008, 12:35:39 PM »
My comments are being misconstrued.  The proposition was put out there that the middle class was trashed by a particular political party.  OK? 

Oversimplification.  The other political party also had a hand in it as well, but that has been argued about ad nauseum.  I offered another example.  A cultural change that occurred.  My intent was not to offend anyone, but to point out what I observed as I lived through that era.  Some folks did not live during those days and only have an  historical account which may or may not be entirely without bias.  It doesn't get talked about much.

The thing about history is that if it is accurately portrayed, one will discover that society is a complicated thing.  A lot of diverse things interact to create a present.  Some things which provide good outcomes may be the result of bad planning.  Also, as someone once said, the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions.  So a good idea sometime winds up with unintended consequences that are not so good.

I also placed a caveat in my comment that equal pay for equal work is part of my belief system.  Perhaps I should have also said that anyone who wants a job in a particular field, who is able to perform the job, should not be excluded merely because of any multitude of a variation on a human theme.  The family unit may not be cookie cut; life creates variations on themes.  Many different lives, many different themes.  Those are givens in my belief system, sometimes grudgingly, but my life experience taught me that I need to be open to things that are painfully obvious, but not necessarily easily understood.  We value education.  That means we need to accept the lesson. I changed careers in part because I found myself becoming cynical about the variety of critters I contended with daily.       
 
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Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2008, 01:45:43 PM »
Grampster, I love you to death, but no.

1.) The government should have nothing to do with it, except to enforce my Constitutional rights.

2.) Equal pay for equal work doesn't work if the work doesn't go to me in the first place..the exact situation I'd have been in 30 years ago. Or most likely would be in now if it weren't for those radical feminists you dislike (and don't get me wrong..I don't agree with them on plenty of things, mostly because they tend to be socialists, but I give credit where credit is due and my ability to support myself and to have supported my kids came very much on their backs.)

3.) Just because it was good for you doesn't mean it was good. The British treated Loyalists pretty well, too, but that doesn't mean the Colonists were wrong for revolting, you know?

I know its difficult for many of you with dangly bits to get why I'm pretty hard nosed and outspoken about this stuff, but to me, the idea that my rightful place is at home is as dangerous as anything that Sarah Brady says.

Strings

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2008, 01:50:51 PM »
You're absolutely right, Barbara: that IS a dangerous notion. However, the societal impact could've been planned for (and probably should have been): couples that get married, have kids, but both parents want to keep their carreers going. Causes problems for kids...

 Not to say I have an answer: it's a thorny problem. Just think the impact should've been looked at a bit closer...

Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »
The impact of what? Allowing the other 50% of the country to live as full citizens? Is there some law now in place disallowing either men or women from staying home to tend to the children?

The government shouldn't have been studying the impact of it any more than they should have studied the economic impact of freeing slaves..its irrelevent.

Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2008, 02:00:14 PM »
I probably sound grumpier than I am about it, but I guess its because to me, its all very obvious and I don't see how other people can't "get it."


Strings

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2008, 02:03:29 PM »
the impact of everyone working irrelevant? Wow.

 Yes... men can stay at home with kids. I know a couple stay at home dads that are awesome. Unfortunately, there are many cases (going on a limb, I'd say most) where there was no discussion about it: both parents were working, the mother took a bit of maternity leave, then went right back to work, trusting a babysitter to deal with junior...

 Could the father just as easily stayed home? Yep... but there is usually no discussion. Or, if there IS discussion, the decision is based on consumerism ("We want these things, so we both have to work"). Sometimes, both parents working IS necessary, I'll grant you. But quite often, the only reason is to afford "things"...

 And I said NOTHING about the government doing study. Don't try to put words in my mouth: I'll choose my own, thanks!

Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2008, 02:07:56 PM »
Yes, its irrelevant what the impact is..you cannot treat 1/2 the nation as less than full citizens any more than you could keep slaves regardless of how it benefited southern businesses. It doesn't matter how it helped them: It was immoral and needed to end.


Paddy

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2008, 02:31:41 PM »
Woman's place is in the home, and that's where she should be every day right after work.  grin

Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2008, 02:33:09 PM »
Having a glass of wine and getting her feet rubbed? Cheesy

grampster

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2008, 03:10:41 PM »
Dangly Bits?    Har har har har.... grin grin grin grin   I like that. grin grin

I guess I was opposed to the radical feminist movement mostly because of Bella Abzug's hats.

PS:  Barbara, Lynn has been cooking for Easter dinner tomorrow since 10:00 AM. We have 23 relatives and a couple neighbors coming over.   She just got out of the shower and I offered to get her a glass of wine and rub her feet.  She told me naww.  Hey, I tried.  (I cleaned the garage cause that's the only place they'll all fit tomorrow, cleaned all the bathrooms, vacuumed and mopped all the floors.  So I asked her to get me some wine and rub my feet and she threw a towel at me. angel angel)

PPS:  E-mail me Michael's e-mail again.  I tried to send him a note a couple weeks ago to find out what he and his buds may want.  I must have written it down wrong.  Didn't work.

 
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Barbara

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Re: Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2008, 03:41:50 PM »
I think you and Lynne probably have a very good relationship and have a lot of fun together. Smiley

Will do on the address..he's bad about correspondence, though. He says mostly there's nothing to do after they're off duty so I sent some card and dice games and a couple of movies. And any kind of goodies because, well, goodies are goodies. Smiley Thank you for keeping him in your thoughts.

I went to the post office yesterday to send him some things and the woman there was really grumpy..and then she saw the address I was mailing to and her whole demeanor changed..it was actually very nice.