Author Topic: Palin starts hitting Obama  (Read 36792 times)

ronnyreagan

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2008, 11:33:33 AM »
ronnyreagan:
Here is a bit form Volokh that might aid your understanding.

Thanks, that made way more sense to me than most of hysteria I've heard on this topic. Good article.
You have to respect the president, whether you agree with him or not.
Obama, however, is not the president since a Kenyan cannot legally be the U.S. President ;/

longeyes

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2008, 11:46:48 AM »
I don't buy Bernstein's "explanation" of Obama in Volokh; by that I mean it dispels none of my concerns.  If Bernstein's correct BHO is either Macbeth on steroids, totally opportunistic and amoral, or so cut off from moral and emotional realities that he is a practicing sociopath who presents a clear and present danger. 

***

It was asked why Ayers is not in prison.  The official answer is prosecutorial mishandling of the case.  I think it behooves all of us to probe further for the "unofficial" answer, some of which has been covered already by other writers.  Ayers is well-connected in Chicago society, and one of the things we can learn from the Ayers case is that all is forgiven--for the right people.  He's been taken care of, and we should know exactly by whom.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 01:46:03 PM by longeyes »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2008, 01:43:02 PM »
I don't know why we're arguing with a guy who advocates lynching.  But maybe that explains why he has no problem with the Ayers connection. 

Ok. Maybe you all should just spell this out for me. Let's say Obama gets elected. What is going to happen as a result of him knowing Ayers? Is Obama going to start planting bombs at the pentagon? What is the great danger that we face from electing an acquaintance of Ayers? (I mean besides Obama's own policies) 


Did anyone say that Ayers was going to direct policy?  The association with Ayers simply demonstrates that Obama is himself a bad guy.  If that is not plain enough for you, then I guess you have a lot of company in the Democratic Party.
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freakazoid

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2008, 02:06:26 PM »
Quote
On October 20, 1981 the Weather Underground combined forces with the Black Liberation Army to rob a Brink's armored truck

Well that isn't exactly true. At that time it was no longer the Weather Underground. There were members from the group but it wasn't the Weather Underground, the WU was dissolved by that time. Not only that but the robbery went bad and the 3 people where killed. It's not like they planned to kill them.

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The Weather Underground actually killed quite a few people prior to the 1981 bank robbery:

One person isn't quite a few. And it was after that that they decided to not target people anymore. Also who was killed was a cop, while they are still considered a civilian they are still part of the system. Although I do think they made a bad decision for several reasons, it would appear that they also realized that.


There are a few things I think that would be important.to know if possible. Did Obama know that this was THE Ayers? Did he know that he would be working with him? Did he know if Ayers wished that they hadn't done what they did?
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ArfinGreebly

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Plausible Deniability
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2008, 02:14:02 PM »
Quote
Did Obama know that this was THE Ayers? Did he know that he would be working with him? Did he know if Ayers wished that they hadn't done what they did?

Yer not serious?

This is the "plausible deniability" defense.

"You can't prove he knew, and there's a very slim chance that he might not have known, and I can come up with scenarios where it could be argued he didn't know . . . therefore, the poor guy is just a patsy."

But he's way smarter than the rest of us, and regardless of the things he has already said, the votes he has already cast, and the people he has hung out with for decades, he's the only one morally qualified to lead us.

And I know this because you can't field an assertion with which I cannot argue.

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roo_ster

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2008, 02:20:53 PM »
Not only that but the robbery went bad and the 3 people where killed. It's not like they planned to kill them.
Quote

I just wanted to re-post this little bit ^^^ and marvel at it.
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freakazoid

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2008, 02:24:01 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to re-post this little bit ^^^ and marvel at it.

??

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Yer not serious?

Yeah, I am serious. ??

It had been 20 years from when the WU was operating to when Obama worked with Ayers. It wouldn't be that hard to think that he wouldn't know that this guy was the same guy as the one who was part of the WU.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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buzz_knox

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2008, 02:36:02 PM »
Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist who wanted to put the US on a socialist path through violence.

Obama is an unrepentant socialist who wants to put the US on a socialist path by any means necessary.

You don't think that Ayers' background might, just might have come up once or twice when two fellow travellers meet?

I knew who Ayers was, and I've never been to his house or even to Chicago.  If Obama really didn't know who Ayers (the darling of the Chicago leftist society) he was, then Obama is absolutely unqualified to do anything but live in a cave.


freakazoid

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2008, 02:59:13 PM »
"I persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter."

Do I need to compare again the people who fought during the revolutionary war?
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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Balog

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2008, 03:53:13 PM »
My friends don't blow up buildings and kill people. 

Some of mine do, but the Marine Corps paid us to........



Oh and for everyone arguing with freak, esp some of our newer posters..........

He's a "Christian anarchist" who's apparently also some form of communist, who's only defense of his belief system is "Go read the rev.left forums." I'd like to humbly suggest that reason and logic might be rather sub-optimal in an attempt at discourse with the young fellow.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2008, 03:54:16 PM »
"I persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter."

Do I need to compare again the people who fought during the revolutionary war?

Epic Fail.

Time to retake history...

Chris

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2008, 04:04:43 PM »
"I persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter."

Do I need to compare again the people who fought during the revolutionary war?

Don't even dare compare the Founding Fathers and the leaders of the American Revolution with scum like Ayers.



Quote
Not only that but the robbery went bad and the 3 people where killed. It's not like they planned to kill them.


That makes it perfectly acceptable because it was an oopsie that 3 people died :rolleyes:


WTF, over?

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longeyes

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2008, 04:43:51 PM »
That Ayers and the Founding Fathers appear in the same sentence shows how far off the tracks a big chunk of this nation really is. 

If we leave the future of America to public schools, MTV, and exploitation flicks, we can't expect anything except bread, circuses, and a succession of Obamas.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2008, 05:40:58 PM »
It had been 20 years from when the WU was operating to when Obama worked with Ayers. It wouldn't be that hard to think that he wouldn't know that this guy was the same guy as the one who was part of the WU.   


Quote

In the mid-1990s, Ayers and Dohrn hosted a meet-and-greet at their house to introduce Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate. In 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's campaign. Ayers also served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at occasional dinners the group hosted.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/902213,CST-NWS-ayers18.article

Does that help? 


As for the three "unintentional" deaths - guess what?  If you and your best friend decide to rob a convenience store, and your friend is legally shot and killed by the store owner, guess who gets charged with homicide?  You do. 

Quote
Also who was killed was a cop, while they are still considered a civilian they are still part of the system.

You might wish to reconsider that remark. 


Quote from: ronnyreagan

If he's a known terrorist whose actions killed people would you take the opportunity to kill him on the spot? Surely that would be the right thing to do if he's so dangerous.

I thought we weren't allowed to "advocate commission of capital crimes."
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 05:48:12 PM by Mr. Tactical-pants »
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2008, 06:25:48 PM »
Here's an interesting perspective on the Obama/Ayers connection: video

Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2008, 06:47:34 PM »
I've just had a shattering realization. 

The fact that we're discussing this makes us all racists.   :O
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2008, 07:24:25 PM »
Quote
On October 20, 1981 the Weather Underground combined forces with the Black Liberation Army to rob a Brink's armored truck

Well that isn't exactly true. At that time it was no longer the Weather Underground. There were members from the group but it wasn't the Weather Underground, the WU was dissolved by that time. Not only that but the robbery went bad and the 3 people where killed. It's not like they planned to kill them.

Quote
The Weather Underground actually killed quite a few people prior to the 1981 bank robbery:

One person isn't quite a few. And it was after that that they decided to not target people anymore. Also who was killed was a cop, while they are still considered a civilian they are still part of the system. Although I do think they made a bad decision for several reasons, it would appear that they also realized that.


There are a few things I think that would be important.to know if possible. Did Obama know that this was THE Ayers? Did he know that he would be working with him? Did he know if Ayers wished that they hadn't done what they did?


but wait!  i thought they didn't kill anyone?  who said that?  must be that new age enlightened thinking that goes way over my head.


"It's not like they planned to kill them."

they accidentally robbed the bank?  didn't know the guns were loaded?  what sad tripe
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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freakazoid

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2008, 07:49:29 PM »
Quote
He's a "Christian anarchist" who's apparently also some form of communist, who's only defense of his belief system is "Go read the rev.left forums."

First of all! There is no period between rev and left, :P. Second of all, that is not my only defense. I will defend my beliefs, just that I'm not very good at explaining myself and why I believe something so I often also suggest going there to get a better understanding than what I can give. You know whats funny, over at revleft they would often make fun of me for anytime Christianity is brought up I also always suggest that they read something like Mere Christianity,  :lol:

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I'd like to humbly suggest that reason and logic might be rather sub-optimal in an attempt at discourse with the young fellow.

Oh please,  ;/

Quote
Epic Fail.

Time to retake history...

Perhaps fill me in on where I went wrong in comparing them?

Quote
That Ayers and the Founding Fathers appear in the same sentence shows how far off the tracks a big chunk of this nation really is.

I highly doubt that a big chunk of the nation would think anything good of Ayers.

Quote
If we leave the future of America to public schools, MTV, and exploitation flicks, we can't expect anything except bread, circuses, and a succession of Obamas.

MTV sucks, hardly any music and when there is it is usually rap, and I don't care much for todays rap. There needs to be more classic rock and stuff. Music like The Moody Blues, ELP, the B52s. You know, good music.

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You might wish to reconsider that remark. 

I am assuming correctly that cops are civilians right?

Quote
Does that help? 

Sort of... But it doesn't really answer the questions.

Quote

As for the three "unintentional" deaths - guess what?  If you and your best friend decide to rob a convenience store, and your friend is legally shot and killed by the store owner, guess who gets charged with homicide?  You do.

Ok?

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they accidentally robbed the bank?  didn't know the guns were loaded?  what sad tripe

Still doesn't mean that they planned to kill anyone.

Quote

but wait!  i thought they didn't kill anyone?  who said that? 

Touche. But after that one killing they decided that they shouldn't target people anymore.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2008, 08:07:31 PM »
so in the "anarchist" world you get a mulligan for only killing TWO folks?  and blinding another?  or they get a bye for being poor at what they do?  i think the chinese handle cases like this real fine.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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BReilley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2008, 11:21:25 PM »
But, man, this is going to get ugly and create engender huge division.

Yeah, exactly.  We need to abandon the divisive politics of the past and fall into step with Obama.  If you do anything else, you're just standing in the way.

Viva la revolution!

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2008, 11:24:46 PM »
But, man, this is going to get ugly and create engender huge division.

Yeah, exactly.  We need to abandon the divisive politics of the past and fall into step with Obama.  If you do anything else, you're just standing in the way.

Viva la revolution!
Yeah, why is it always our fault for creating "divisiveness"?  Isn't any potential divisiveness Obama's fault for being a far-left radical who is completely out of step with American ideals and values?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2008, 11:27:14 PM »
HTG, that post was just so full of racist code language, I don't know where to start.   :police:
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BReilley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2008, 12:00:14 AM »
No, but then you arent running for the highest office in the land, and you didnt claim that the guy who set bombs at the Pentagon was "just a guy from the neighbourhood".  What type of neighbourhood do you live in?

Ayers isn't running for president, and I don't think Obama has any responsibility to do background checks on every person he meets. I don't even understand what I'm supposed to be worried about here. Is everyone who Ayers even knows suddenly a terrorist? I say attack Obama on policy, experience, and judgment - this crap is silly though. Sean Hannity has been screaming about this for months, people are not going to suddenly jump to supporting McCain because of this, if anything they're sick of hearing about it.

I'm not sick of hearing about it.  I'm sick of NOT hearing about it.  We find out that Obama's longtime preacher is spouting hate-filled, racist, politically charged sermons, and it's all forgiven when Obama gives a speech about racism?  We find out that one of Obama's close supporters is an admitted, unrepentant, violent criminal who only stopped because he was caught, and it's all swept under the rug because Obama was a child when Ayers was blowing big expensive public things up?  Should we not expel and/or jail the high-school student who phones in a bomb threat because, well, he DID give fair warning...

Further down the time-heals-all-wounds line, here's a tangent for you to think about... all that slavery crap that people are still bitching about - neither I nor my family, nor indeed anyone I've ever known, has profited from slavery(BY ANY CHOICE OF OUR OWN).  All that really bad stuff went down more than a hundred years ago, long before my great-grandfather was born.  So tell me why - if Obama can't be held to account for his willful association with said criminal(excuse me, *former* criminal) only thirty-something years later - why am I held responsible for slavery?  Why are we still discussing reparations?  Let bygones be bygones!

Quote
On October 20, 1981 the Weather Underground combined forces with the Black Liberation Army to rob a Brink's armored truck

Well that isn't exactly true. At that time it was no longer the Weather Underground. There were members from the group but it wasn't the Weather Underground, the WU was dissolved by that time. Not only that but the robbery went bad and the 3 people where killed. It's not like they planned to kill them.

I expect that most of us would say that a thief who makes the choice to kill a person in order to avoid capture is quite a different person from a thief who surrenders.  I can't believe your implication that it's not a big deal because they didn't "plan" to kill.  Second-degree murder is still murder.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2008, 12:04:27 AM »
Unless it's just a cop who gets waxed.  Cops don't count.  They're part of the system, man. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Palin starts hitting Obama
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2008, 12:22:25 AM »
I keep thinking about the drubbing that Ashcroft received for his interview with Southern Partisan magazine.  The media seemed to think that story was fairly important.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1880

They even felt it appropriate to tell us that McCain was endorsed by a preacher that said things people didn't like!   :O

And of course, Sarah Palin is criticized for blowing up Alaska's federal buildings giving a speech to the Independence Party. 


But if you want some true hypocrisy, you can't beat prominent Congressional Democrats like, oh, I don't know, the SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, questioning flatly impeaching people's patriotism.   :laugh:  Hooooooo wee boy, but I just love that!
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