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Author Topic: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats  (Read 18513 times)

Desertdog

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In the first paragraph are 3 item which sounds very socialistic to me.  Helping with the infrastructure sounds somewhat like  what governments should do, but what happened to the motor fuel taxes that were supposed to pay for these projects?  In paragraghph 2 they want to cit military spending.  F... you on this one.


Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
By Steve Urbon
Standard-Times senior correspondent

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081024/NEWS/810240332/-1/NEWS10

NEW BEDFORD After the November election, Democrats will push for a second economic stimulus package that includes money for the states' stalled infrastructure projects, along with help paying for healthcare expenses, food stamps and extended unemployment benefits, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank said Thursday.

In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a 25 percent cut in military spending, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs, and that upper-income taxpayers are going to see an increase in what they are asked to pay.

The military cuts also mean getting out of Iraq sooner, he said.

"The people of Iraq want us out, and we want to stay over their objection," he said. "It's extraordinary." The Maliki government in Iraq "can't sell (the withdrawal deal with the U.S.) because it sounds like we're going to stay too long."

"I was teasing (U.S. Rep.) Jack Murtha (a key supporter of military budgets) and I said to him, 'For the first time, somebody else has got a bill that's almost as big as yours.' We don't need all these fancy new weapons. I think there needs to be additional review."

Rep. Frank called on President Bush to appoint a senior official to guide the economic stimulus packages through the transition to the Barack Obama or John McCain administration when it takes office in January.

And he said that if the Democrats can't find an adequate agreement on a stimulus package in the lame-duck Congress, they would rather wait until the new Congress takes over likely with many more Democrats, if polling results bear fruit in the November voting.

The new package, he said, will be aimed at easing fears about lending and investing. "The psychological problem is even worse than the real problem," he said.

"There is money to lend and projects worth borrowing money to do. But people are afraid to lend. That's what we're trying to unfreeze."

States have many infrastructure projects bridges, highways, etc. that have been shut down because of a cash-flow problems, he said. So it is not the case that a stimulus will take months or years to wait for design and approval, since projects are already in progress or ready to go.

Also, he said, "we'll increase the federal share of medical care so states won't have to lay off people." Unemployment insurance benefits won't increase, he said, but the period of collecting them will, and eligibility requirements might be relaxed.

And, ultimately, there will be tax increases on the upper brackets. "We'll have to raise taxes ultimately. Not now, but eventually," he said.

Contact Steve Urbon at surbon@s-t.com

ilbob

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 10:39:19 AM »

I am inclined to agree that the military is going to have to make some tough choices on what expensive weapons systems it wants to get rid of. There just is not enough money to fund everything at the levels the military wants.

Personally, I am generally in favor of cutting whole programs rather than cutting back on them. When you do that you end up with fewer expensive weapons that have a very expensive logistics pipeline and you don't have enough of them to do any good.

bob

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longeyes

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 11:04:32 AM »

It's hard for me to imagine cutting the military budget given the global realities facing this nation right now, but I know this: I don't trust an Obama administration to make prudent cuts.
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Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 12:02:59 PM »

I am inclined to agree that the military is going to have to make some tough choices on what expensive weapons systems it wants to get rid of. There just is not enough money to fund everything at the levels the military wants.

Personally, I am generally in favor of cutting whole programs rather than cutting back on them. When you do that you end up with fewer expensive weapons that have a very expensive logistics pipeline and you don't have enough of them to do any good.

Oh, you know how that will work.

The Pentagon will still give more money to HK for vaporware magic high-tech weapons systems that never exist.

The "cuts" will mean the troops in the field get less essential stuff.

jad0110

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 12:42:32 PM »

Quote
In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a 25 percent cut in military spending, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs

Yeah, because it is perfectly acceptable for the Marines to fly around in 40+ year old helicopters  :mad: .

I find it rather irritating that the most important role for the Federal Govt to play, national defense, always seem to get cut first by one of our major political parties.

ilbob

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 12:51:44 PM »

Yeah, because it is perfectly acceptable for the Marines to fly around in 40+ year old helicopters  :mad: .

I find it rather irritating that the most important role for the Federal Govt to play, national defense, always seem to get cut first by one of our major political parties.
As long as they work whats wrong with them being 40 years old?

A fair number of very usable and useful weapons systems have been around that long. M16 and B52 come to mind.
bob

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longeyes

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 04:46:07 PM »

We won't need much.  The only wars we'll be fighting will be in places like Darfur, for "human rights," against the "skinnies."  Slingshots will bring 'em down.
"Domari nolo."

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Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 04:48:07 PM »

Fight? Silly. An Obama military isn't for fighting.

It's for slinging shovels. Building schools and mosques in the countries we in the evil US were "mean" to.

MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 07:20:27 AM »

Elaborate for me, why is excessive military spending better than any other excessive government spending?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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wquay

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 07:26:56 AM »

Elaborate for me, why is excessive military spending better than any other excessive government spending?

It isn't.

Btw, how many officers in charge of procurement are hired on as consultants after they retire? How is that not a conflict of interest?

Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 07:28:34 AM »

Elaborate for me, why is excessive military spending better than any other excessive government spending?

Because when cuts are made, it's never to the pork or the pet projects, it's always cuts to essential equipment replacement for soldiers, base housing, all that sort of thing.

MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2008, 07:29:55 AM »

Because when cuts are made, it's never to the pork or the pet projects, it's always cuts to essential equipment replacement for soldiers, base housing, all that sort of thing.

Fine. I'll play.

You guys have far too many aircraft carriers.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2008, 07:31:05 AM »

you never have too many carriers.... you can have too few though
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 07:33:09 AM »

you never have too many carriers.... you can have too few though


After you have a sufficient naval power to *take on every other warship currently afloat at once, and win*, building two more carriers is... eh.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 07:34:37 AM »

Fine. I'll play.

You guys have far too many aircraft carriers.

What?

An aircraft carrier is a mobile piece of US sovereign territory than can go anywhere, to any area of crisis.

You might just be glad for our carriers someday, if push comes to shove. They can be used for massive air superiority efforts, relief, everything. They can even power a mid-sized city.

They also only need to be refueled every few decades.

Do you even know what carriers are used for? Apparently not, since the primary use is to launch air superiority and bombing strikes AGAINST LAND. How would you get all those fighters there without carriers? Hello?

Carriers are not used against other ships. No other nation has a bluewater navy to match ours. That's why we mothballed the Iowas and built more carriers, for use against land targets.

You need to read more.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 07:37:41 AM by Manedwolf »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 07:35:42 AM »

our carriers bring more hurt to landbased targets than other ships. has been that way your whole life.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Mike Irwin

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 07:36:36 AM »

"You guys have far too many aircraft carriers."

Yeah. Right.  :rolleyes:

When Obama cuts Israel loose, and Syria and Iran decide it's fine time to start rattling sabers again, guess who will be screaming bloodly murder for assistance from American airpower.

AGAIN.
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Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 07:41:41 AM »

"You guys have far too many aircraft carriers."

Yeah. Right.  :rolleyes:

When Obama cuts Israel loose, and Syria and Iran decide it's fine time to start rattling sabers again, guess who will be screaming bloodly murder for assistance from American airpower.

AGAIN.

Not to mention that a minimum of three carriers is needed for any attack operation now. Two to launch planes, one just for recovery in case one of the others is unable to be used for landing if someone goes wrong, a crash on the flight deck, any of that. Those planes need to land somewhere. They learned THAT back in WWII.

When you consider all the areas we might need to be in coming years, we don't have enough.

We have ten active, and Enterprise is getting old. The George H. W. Bush will be entering service soon, making it 11.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 07:45:34 AM by Manedwolf »

MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2008, 07:44:08 AM »

So Syria, whose ground forces the IDF outnumbers 2-1 is going to attack Israel?

Syria, over whose Presidential palace the IAF does routine overflights, and whose AA troops are completely unable to detect our planes, much less HIT them with anything, is going to attack Israel?

Iran, whose air force consists of 180 fighters, is going to help Syria?

You do realize that even if every single Syrian and Iranian fighter aircraft is scrambled, including F-4's and MIG-21, Israel *still* outnumbers both of these nations in the air, combined? And our planes have been made later than 1975, thank you very much.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2008, 07:46:39 AM »

Quote
guess who will be screaming bloodly murder for assistance from American airpower.

AGAIN.

You do realize that I am for cessation of all American aid to Israel, yes?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2008, 07:47:32 AM »

You do realize that I am for cessation of all American aid to Israel, yes?

You would be crushed like a goddamned bug in weeks. Don't be arrogant.

Israel NEEDS the US backing it up to survive.

MicroBalrog

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2008, 07:51:27 AM »

You would be crushed like a goddamned bug in weeks. Don't be arrogant.


With what? Waves of Iranian ten-year-olds tied together with ropes?

That didn't work out so well for them against Saddam, did it?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Regolith

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2008, 07:55:08 AM »

Quite frankly, defense spending is one of the very few federal money sinks that is, you know, actually constitutional.  While I'd love for the military to be more efficient in the manner they spend money, I'd rather have my money go there than say, welfare.
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longeyes

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2008, 08:02:57 AM »

I'm sure Obama believes we have too many aircraft carriers, too many Trident submarines, too many Tomahawk cruise missiles, too many ABMs, too many everything except U.S. Marines doing construction work that foreigners ought to be doing for themselves.

You mean Israel wouldn't like to have a few aircraft carriers?  Please.

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Manedwolf

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Re: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank envisions post-election stimulus from Democrats
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 08:05:02 AM »

I'm sure Obama believes we have too many aircraft carriers, too many Trident submarines, too many Tomahawk cruise missiles, too many ABMs, too many everything except U.S. Marines doing construction work that foreigners ought to be doing for themselves.

I fully expect his administration would try to cancel the Ford-class carriers with the new electromagnetic catapult, needed to replace our carriers built in the 1970's.
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