Author Topic: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate  (Read 63886 times)

agricola

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2008, 12:44:37 PM »
His certificate was released on his website and many others. How is that "not being completely transparent"? In addition to that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it. :rolleyes:

ronny,

I agree this is probably tinfoilery - the point is that we have not seen the birth certificate that those people have certified exists.  What traction this has had could easily have been avoided by showing it earlier, instead of getting lawsuits dismissed without having to show it.
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lanternlad

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2008, 12:55:11 PM »
"I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it."

I already saw that video. It's called Rosemary's Baby.
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red headed stranger

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2008, 04:57:32 PM »
Even if he were born outside the United States, his mother was still a citizen. Therefore it is my understanding he would still be eligible to be president.   
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2008, 06:12:36 PM »
wasn't there some legal tap dancing to do with moms age?
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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2008, 06:14:24 PM »
Quote
His certificate was released on his website and many others. How is that "not being completely transparent"? In addition to that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

I think some people will never be satisfied until they see video footage of Barack Obama being born, with a newspaper from Aug. 4, 1961 in the background along with a GPS unit confirming the location in Hawaii. Nah, that still probably wouldn't cut it.

A colb is not a birth cert. &  I do not trust Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino  and  Alvin Onaka, they probably are bureacrats(SP) in the tank for B.O anyway.
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De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2008, 06:25:25 PM »
The "private demand" to see Obama's birth certificate is a blog rumor, not a part of the proceedings.

This is one of those theories that's just impossible to disprove, because the proponents don't accept any evidence.  If the actual piece of paper written on back in '61 is ever produced, they'll just call it a fake like they did the certificate from the state of hawaii. 

That's how conspiracy theories work: whenever evidence to disprove the theory comes up, you just include the evidence and its producer as part of the conspiracy, and the theory goes on.
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oldfart

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2008, 06:37:06 PM »
Folks, I'm passing information along here that I don't completely understand but since the matter is so important I'm going to go ahead and toss it out and let you decide what to do with it.  This has been tossed back and forth by a number of attorneys on other forums.  Maybe they know what they're talking about and maybe not.  Maybe I didn't understand exactly what they were trying to say too.  Here goes.

At the time he was born the laws about babies born overseas were a bit different than now.  Evidently, a baby born in a foreign land could be an American citizen if it's mother was 18 years old and had lived in the US for a certain number of years prior to the birth.  His mother was 17 when he was born.

Then there's his adoption.  His adopted father took him to Indonesia and enrolled him in school.  Indonesia was involved in a war at the time and wasn't allowing non-citizens to enroll in schools.  Yet Barry, as he was known then, was enrolled in school and his registration papers clearly say he was a citizen and that his religion was Muslim.

His Kenyan grandmother has stated that she was present in the delivery room when he was born in Mombassa, Kenya.  His sister has told reporters that he was born in two different hospitals in Honolulu.  He has refused to show his birth certificate even if it would clear all this up.

Discussion from some other sources has gone over the danger of invalidating the recent election and the fact that the SC has to be cognizant of it.  There is also the possibility of a forged birth certificate, because if the government can make a new identity for someone in the witness protection program they should be able to cover his @$$ too and by now we all know that TPTB want him to be President and will do what it takes to get him in the oval office.

And, of course, this could all be a load of hogwash.  But it's interesting hogwash.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 06:41:02 PM by oldfart »

red headed stranger

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2008, 06:43:03 PM »
Quote
A colb is not a birth cert. &  I do not trust Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino  and  Alvin Onaka, they probably are bureacrats(SP) in the tank for B.O anyway.

It sounds like no proof will do then.  When it comes down to it, any document can be faked if you have enough bureaucrats "in the tank" for a person.  

If Obama had been born overseas, his mother could have gotten a Consular Report of Birth Abroad from a US consulate that would state that he obtained US citizenship at Birth.  Thousands of Children are born to US citizens overseas every year and are documented though this process.  It appears, though untested in the courts, that this documentation is sufficient for eligibility for office of POTUS.  

I am not happy about an Obama presidency, but I think that pursuing this too far just makes us look as silly as the people who can't give up on the 2000 election.  
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red headed stranger

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2008, 06:51:57 PM »
Quote
At the time he was born the laws about babies born overseas were a bit different than now.  Evidently, a baby born in a foreign land could be an American citizen if it's mother was 18 years old and had lived in the US for a certain number of years prior to the birth.  His mother was 17 when he was born.

This is an interesting bit of information that I was not aware of.  I wonder who has standing to challenge his eligibility in court? 

That said, I do strongly doubt that Obama would have gone through all of the trouble of running for president if he wasn't eligible, or have all his ducks in a row in terms of documentation.  I also believe that The Clintons would have had the resources to get the bottom of things and use it against him. 
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ctdonath

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2008, 07:21:04 PM »
Oldfart has that part right. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that indicates, via several valid but complicated legal theories, that Barack is ineligible to be POTUS. These have enough meat that (A) they cannot be dismissed casually (and I'd like to), and (B) they cannot be addressed with flippant short posts on a discussion board. The Birth Certificate has not been published, period. There were two COLBs published, one apparently a fake. A COLB can look like a "natural born citizen" proof yet clearly be granted to someone who isn't. Barack may very well have been born in Kenya, then flown to HI three days later and duly registered. Barack's stonewalling is puzzling. Kenya's fondness for the guy is suspect. If he was born here, laws at the time indicate he wasn't legally a "natural born citizen" for complicated reasons. And on it goes, raising a hell of a lot of questions. As one who follows the debunking of conspiracy theories, methinks this one has legs.

To the thread's title:

The Supreme Court's docket lists
Quote
No. 08-570   
Title:    
Philip J. Berg, Petitioner
v.
Barack Obama, et al.
Docketed:   October 31, 2008
Lower Ct:   United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
  Case Nos.:   (08-4340)
   Rule 11

~~~Date~~~    ~~~~~~~Proceedings  and  Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 30 2008    Petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment filed. (Response due December 1, 2008)
Oct 31 2008    Application (08A391) for an injunction pending disposition of the petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 3 2008    Supplemental brief of applicant Philip J. Berg filed.
Nov 3 2008    Application (08A391) denied by Justice Souter.
This is an appeal to SCOTUS to compel Obama to prove eligibility, after a PA court ruled that Berg (plaintiff) did not have standing to make such a demand.
Berg also asked SCOTUS to delay certification of the election until Obama complies; this has been denied.
The request for certiorari is still being processed. There is a rumor - and only a rumor - that the Chief Justice has asked Barack Obama to show him the original birth certificate.

So ... it's complicated. There's a lot of half-assed info being tossed around, much if it correct but incomplete unto misleading. The important part is that the issue has been brought before the Supreme Court, opening the door to them doing something. (They can't do anything if nobody complains.)

The particularly bad part is the very large number of celebratory supporters who will likely riot - in a big way - if their winning candidate is disqualified on a technicality (most likely: brought to US 3 days after birth, with his mother of marginally inadequate age & residency).

SCOTUS Docket 08-570. That's where it's all at now.
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ctdonath

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2008, 07:23:21 PM »
Quote
I wonder who has standing to challenge his eligibility in court?

Fortunately the issue has reached the Supreme Court. They can kinda fudge things when it comes to "standing", "stare desis", and other quicksand issues.
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De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2008, 07:33:24 PM »
Fortunately the issue has reached the Supreme Court. They can kinda fudge things when it comes to "standing", "stare desis", and other quicksand issues.

I would give it about a one percent chance that they fudge the standing issue to consider this case.

This whole "debate" has "political question" written in big red letters all over it. 

I don't think there are any factual legs to it either: the speculation that he might have been born in Kenya and then flown within days (was it even possible to get a flight from Kenya to HI in three days time back then?) just doesn't hold water. 
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RocketMan

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2008, 08:13:57 PM »
I just cannot believe the SCOTUS would open this can of worms.  If Obama were proven ineligible to be President, the political fallout in this country, riots notwithstanding, would be enormous.
My prediction: Nothing will come of this.  The SCOTUS will refuse to examine the issue.
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wquay

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2008, 08:34:04 PM »
Can't change the law anytime soon.

It's a stipulation in the Constitution, and would require an amendment to change it.

My understanding is that the Constitution states "natural born citizen," but that Congress has considerable latitude to define what that means. McCain qualified because of a recent redefinition applied retroactively.

neviander

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2008, 08:49:47 PM »
I think this falls into the same category as Obama being able to get a security clearance.  Any other civilian, and some other politicians would NEVER be issued a security clearance if we had the associations that Obama does, but Obama is buds with too many lawmakers with agendas, so equal treatment under the law is out the window.

It would not surprise me one bit, if by some miracle, we learned unequivocally, that Obama was born in a hut in Kenya.  It also would not surprise me to watch the Godless lefties do what they do, and either pass it off as unimportant, deny it, or totally ignore it; the media would back them up and all but a few people would forget about it in a month.

The birth certificate issue is dead, the election is over.  It sucks, but se la vie.
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Werewolf

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2008, 09:02:42 PM »
Even if he were born outside the United States, his mother was still a citizen. Therefore it is my understanding he would still be eligible to be president.   

Wrong...

If she were wife of a military man serving overseas - yes
If she were wife to a member of the state department serving overseas - yes
If she was acting as an agent of the US government and gave birth overseas - yes

If simply a US citizen and the wife of a Kenyan and she gave birth to the messiah in Kenya - no. Obama would not be eligible to be president.

I had two brothers born overseas - one in Germany, one in Turkey - sons of a US Air Force Officer. Both have had to prove that Dad was active duty, while serving overseas when they were born on a number of occassions to prove citizenship. My brother born in Turkey had to get a proof of citizenship statement from the state department.

If Obama was born in Kenya - he isn't eligible to be President.
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De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2008, 09:05:19 PM »


If Obama was born in Kenya - he isn't eligible to be President.

True-the problem is that there's no evidence he was born in Kenya, and there is a birth certificate and a period newspaper announcement to show that he was born in Hawaii, USA.


"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Werewolf

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2008, 09:05:57 PM »
I just cannot believe the SCOTUS would open this can of worms.  If Obama were proven ineligible to be President, the political fallout in this country, riots notwithstanding, would be enormous.
My prediction: Nothing will come of this.  The SCOTUS will refuse to examine the issue.

If that's what they do even with credible evidence tha Obama is ineligible to be president then the constitution will have become good for little more than wiping one's ass with.
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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2008, 09:23:39 PM »
True-the problem is that there's no evidence he was born in Kenya, and there is a certificate of live birth but not a birth certificate and a period newspaper announcement to show that he was born in Hawaii, USA.




At least make an attempt to get the facts right.

De Selby

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2008, 09:28:10 PM »
At least make an attempt to get the facts right.

The difference between those two terms is completely irrelevant.  Anywhere, in any position or office, that asks for "Birth Certificate" as proof of identity will take what Obama already made public. 

You can see for yourself the direction this is taking: Now that the Hawaii .gov has verified that there is indeed a piece of paper from 1961 recording the birth (which is what that certificate already did), they're accused of being "in on the plot" to make Obama president. 

No evidence, no matter how convincing, will ever settle this for the folks that don't want to believe Obama is a citizen.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

red headed stranger

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2008, 09:31:06 PM »
Werewolf,

I am aware of the citizenship process.  I am currently a US contractor in Korea whose son was born overseas.  I sat through the whole briefing by a state department representative explaining the process.  US citizens living here that are not under the SOFA agreement (Such as English teachers) are also entitled to the same Consular report of Birth Abroad that my son received which states that he acquired US citizenship at birth.  

According to what I am hearing, the rules may have been more strict back in the 60's.  This could be a problem for Obama if he was born in Kenya.  That however is a pretty big if.  
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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2008, 10:42:01 PM »
The "private demand" to see Obama's birth certificate is a blog rumor, not a part of the proceedings.

This is one of those theories that's just impossible to disprove, because the proponents don't accept any evidence.  If the actual piece of paper written on back in '61 is ever produced, they'll just call it a fake like they did the certificate from the state of hawaii. 

That's how conspiracy theories work: whenever evidence to disprove the theory comes up, you just include the evidence and its producer as part of the conspiracy, and the theory goes on.

Someone alert the MSM....I agree with SS for once.
This is like the ultimate conspiracy theory.  Even if someone puts an original birth certificate out on the web for all eyes to see.......someone is going to claim its fake.  There is just no way of knowing at this point.
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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2008, 10:59:13 PM »
It is a little hard to believe that the combined efforts of the Clinton machine and research by the RNC could have missed such a slam dunk.

It's a rabbit trail IMHO.
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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2008, 11:03:31 PM »
Quote
I think this falls into the same category as Obama being able to get a security clearance.  Any other civilian, and some other politicians would NEVER be issued a security clearance if we had the associations that Obama does, but Obama is buds with too many lawmakers with agendas, so equal treatment under the law is out the window.

Nope.  Elected government officials neither require, nor are issued, security clearances.  They are granted access to sensitive information solely by position of their office. 

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http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=15604.0

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Re: SCOTUS wants to see Obama's Birth Certificate
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2008, 11:51:10 PM »
They pulled the same crap on McCain, thanks to his Panama birth (IIRC). A Texan nimrod decided to try and sue so as to find Dick Cheney was a Texas resident, thus unable to run for president with GW.

I strongly expect this to be more of the same. If it were true, the novelist in me says it's a wicked clever Clinton conspiracy. For reasons that will appear in chapter 16, they decided not to spring this during the primaries, or just before the election. Instead, they decide to spring it just after he reaches the pinnacle of his public career. Just when making things official was a formality, all hopes (and change) are dashed to the ground. The election is somehow declared fraudulent and given to McCain (though I'd expect it be given to Biden), and Democrats curse the name of Obama for the next hundred years.