Author Topic: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers  (Read 19556 times)

Desertdog

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Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« on: December 05, 2008, 01:14:07 PM »
Looks like somebody wants to buy a lot of farm land at depression time prices. That is what will happen if this goes through.  The only way I see for the farmer to live with something like this is limit their farm animals.  Cows - 24, Beef cattle - 49, or Hogs - 199, which probably isn't enough to support them.

Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
By BOB JOHNSON, Associated Press
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_bi_ge/farm_scene_cow_tax_2

MONTGOMERY, Ala. – For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.

Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.

It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.

The executive vice president of the Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation, Ken Hamilton, estimated the fee would cost owners of a modest-sized cattle ranch $30,000 to $40,000 a year. He said he has talked to a number of livestock owners about the proposals, and "all have said if the fees were carried out, it would bankrupt them."

Sparks said Wednesday he's worried the fee could be extended to chickens and other farm animals and cause more meat to be imported.

"We'll let other countries put food on our tables like they are putting gas in our cars. Other countries don't have the health standards we have," Sparks said.

EPA spokesman Nick Butterfield said the fee was proposed for farms with livestock operations that emit more than 100 tons of carbon emissions in a year and fall under federal Clean Air Act provisions.

Butterfield said the EPA has not taken a position on any of the proposals. But farmers from across the country have expressed outrage over the idea, both on Internet sites and in opinions sent to EPA during a public comment period that ended last week.

"It's something that really has a very big potential adverse impact for the livestock industry," said Rick Krause, the senior director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau Federation.

The fee would cover the cost of a permit for the livestock operations. While farmers say it would drive them out of business, an organization supporting the proposal hopes it forces the farms and ranches to switch to healthier crops.

"It makes perfect sense if you are looking for ways to cut down on meat consumption and recoup environmental losses," said Bruce Friedrich, a spokesman in Washington for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

"We certainly support making factory farms pay their fair share," he said.

U.S. Rep. Robert Aderholt, a Republican from Haleyville in northwest Alabama, said he has spoken with EPA officials and doesn't believe the cow tax is a serious proposal that will ever be adopted by the agency.

"Who comes up with this kind of stuff?" said Perry Mobley, director of the Alabama Farmers Federation's beef division. "It seems there is an ulterior motive, to destroy livestock farms. This would certainly put them out of business."

Butterfield said the EPA is reviewing the public comments and didn't have a timetable for the next steps

Nitrogen

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 01:17:38 PM »
I wonder how many farmers have this number of cattle?  I honestly don't know.

My guess is that it's aimed at huge factory farms.  These things are especially large and stinky for miles around.

I doubt it was meant to affect the average small to medium size farmers, wether or not it actually does is another matter.
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Nick1911

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 01:25:40 PM »
Yea!  Stick it to em!  I want to pay more money for my meat products that will end up in the hands of the government as a tax!  I don't give them enough of the fruits of my labor as it is!

Manedwolf

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2008, 01:27:10 PM »
"Let them eat tofu."

K Frame

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 01:29:43 PM »
This, supposedly, is one of Henry Waxman's big wet dream proposals.
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SADShooter

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 01:30:58 PM »
Certainly this would target large agribusiness. While I'm not a huge fan of some of their practices, as long as we demand low cost protein staples and 99cent cheeseburgers, there's a price to pay somewhere. I have relations in Pike County, IL, the hog capital of the known universe. That stench in the air is the smell of money.
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HankB

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 01:31:34 PM »
Quote
"Who comes up with this kind of stuff?" said Perry Mobley, director of the Alabama Farmers Federation's beef division. "It seems there is an ulterior motive, to destroy livestock farms. This would certainly put them out of business."  

It would not surprise me AT ALL if the people pushing this have OUS agribusiness financial interests.

When does simple poor judgement cross the barrier of sheer idiocy and become actual treason?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »
This, supposedly, is one of Henry Waxman's big wet dream proposals.

As per my comment above.

He and his ilk would be all too happy to make meat entirely unaffordable for all but the rich. The masses can sit in their cold houses with the lights off and eat their bland white cubes, so they don't cause more carbon emission. Meanwhile, the liberal elites, being the philosopher-kings, are entitled to their brilliantly lit palaces.

Ben

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 01:39:07 PM »
Quote
This, supposedly, is one of Henry Waxman's big wet dream proposals.

Perusing the news this morning, I saw it's a big push (coupled to "eat less meat") with the UN  right now as well. With the new administration looking like it will kowtow to the UN and put environmental activists in key roles in DOI and EPA,  I can see this stuff expanding over the next four years.
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Nick1911

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 01:48:56 PM »
Perusing the news this morning, I saw it's a big push (coupled to "eat less meat") with the UN  right now as well. With the new administration looking like it will kowtow to the UN and put environmental activists in key roles in DOI and EPA,  I can see this stuff expanding over the next four years.

Just think, 4 years from now, 40 cents of every dollar you spend on meat could go to saving the planet.

There, doesn't that feel smug self righteous like a crock of bull to make elitist rich good?

Ben

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 01:49:52 PM »
Quote
I doubt it was meant to affect the average small to medium size farmers

An "average" sized family dairy farm in CA can have hundreds to thousands of cows. More than half of them have over 500 cows. The dairy farmer (farmer, singular, family owned and operated, not corporate) my folks sell all their alfalfa and corn to has over 1500.

At the "mid" number, $175 x 500 = $87,500. Milk is gonna get kinda expensive.
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FTA84

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 02:22:07 PM »
At the "mid" number, $175 x 500 = $87,500. Milk is gonna get kinda expensive.

Serf, drink your soy milk and like it.

Nitrogen

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 02:33:36 PM »
An "average" sized family dairy farm in CA can have hundreds to thousands of cows. More than half of them have over 500 cows. The dairy farmer (farmer, singular, family owned and operated, not corporate) my folks sell all their alfalfa and corn to has over 1500.

At the "mid" number, $175 x 500 = $87,500. Milk is gonna get kinda expensive.

Figured I didn't have all the info.
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charby

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 02:37:31 PM »
I wonder how many farmers have this number of cattle?  I honestly don't know.


Most of the small producers I know would be taxed. These are the guys that farm less than 1000 acres of row crops and still raise livestock.

Also what about fowl? Ever drove by a egg farm or a turkey farm?

Are they wanting to bankrupt all the small producers, bankrupt the consumers?

If they really want to do anything go after manure runoff/management and soil erosion. Both of those would go great lengths in protecting the environment.

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Desertdog

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008, 02:38:16 PM »
Quote
At the "mid" number, $175 x 500 = $87,500. Milk is gonna get kinda expensive.
If you can find a dairyman with any cows.  That will be the results of any law like this.  Cheaper and less work to sell his land to housing developers.

charby

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 02:40:10 PM »
If you can find a dairyman with any cows.  That will be the results of any law like this.  Cheaper and less work to sell his land to housing developers.

or switch to goat's milk.

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Ben

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 02:42:25 PM »
Quote
Cheaper and less work to sell his land to housing developers.

Actually a great deal more profitable in many instances. These guys are mostly in farming because they want to be. Lots of dairy farms in CA are already close to developed land, so it would be pretty easy to take a big profit and quit the business. If the enviros keep this stuff up, they will indeed see the end result you mention -- open land sold for housing and urbanization and all the pollution that will cause.
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Desertdog

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 02:44:04 PM »
Quote
or switch to goat's milk.
If this passes, then they will go for thr goats, chickens, turkeys and rabbits.

Nick1911

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 02:50:23 PM »
You'll still be able to get milk.  Nice, expensive, Chinese made, melamine-infested milk.

Goes back to the true goals of radical environmentalism: "You suck, and the world would be better off without you."

RocketMan

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 03:01:36 PM »
If this passes, then they will go for thr goats, chickens, turkeys and rabbits.

This will become law.  This regulation fits in well with the political belief system of the incoming administration and it's political appointees. There is little standing in the way that would prevent it from happening.
The intention is to drive farmers out of business.
The intention is to make food more expensive for the average consumer.
It is all about control of the electorate.
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ronnyreagan

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 03:33:34 PM »
The intention is to drive farmers out of business.
The intention is to make food more expensive for the average consumer.
It is all about control of the electorate.
Well aren't we melodramatic today?

The intention is to address a negative externality associated with farming by imposing a pigovian tax. I can't say that it's the right amount, or even necessary since I'm not very familiar with the air pollution involved (anyone have more details about the supreme court case referenced in the article?) but I doubt it's all part of a giant scheme by Big Environment to make you eat soy beans.
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El Tejon

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2008, 03:37:35 PM »
Can't we tax the smelly tourists that the good Senator complained of? =D
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Ben

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2008, 03:50:12 PM »
Quote
Well aren't we melodramatic today?

Sounds to me like he's responding to the article:

Quote
The fee would cover the cost of a permit for the livestock operations. While farmers say it would drive them out of business, an organization supporting the proposal hopes it forces the farms and ranches to switch to healthier crops.

"It makes perfect sense if you are looking for ways to cut down on meat consumption and recoup environmental losses," said Bruce Friedrich, a spokesman in Washington for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

Melodramatic is asshats classifying farts as pollution and as something that has to be regulated.
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RocketMan

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2008, 03:50:58 PM »
No drama intended or necessary, ronnyreagan.  My statements stem from years of observing the various participants and their behaviors, and listening to their oft-stated beliefs.  And I don't believe I even mentioned "Big Environment".  Who are they?

Quote
The intention is to address a negative externality associated with farming by imposing a pigovian tax.

Now, that was funny!  =D


If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Standing Wolf

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Re: Proposed fee on smelly cows, hogs angers farmers
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2008, 04:04:35 PM »
Quote
Looks like somebody wants to buy a lot of farm land at depression time prices.

I'd be more inclined to guess it's yet another way the PETA parasites are trying to make meat prohibitively expensive for the commoners.
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