Author Topic: A good Democrat?  (Read 41736 times)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2009, 07:06:00 PM »
It comes down to how much of a sense of humor you can muster.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2009, 07:14:06 PM »
;/

I don't care for the Dems as a whole. I'm starting to feel that way about the R's too, for that matter.

Put it this way. If fisty said "The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim" would that be ok?

Be a bit more acceptable if instead of muslim, he said raghead/gook/chink/charlie/jappo/nip/kraut/skinny or some other dehumanizing title typically concocted by the military to condition people to be ready for killing and out dotguv has declared war upon that group.

That way it fits into a proper societal context, and we can see he's just going along with his orders and training.

Leaving it as Muslim, it just comes across as too broad a brush.

Fisty, why would you say such a thing?  I'm disappointed in you.  Painting Muslims with a broad brush like that.   :mad:   :laugh:

You can do it with the Democrats, though. =D

Good democrats?

How about Leiberman?  He left the party... that's a step in the right direction.  He ain't a libertarian or even a conservative in platform... but I can applaud a good start, can't I?
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Balog

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2009, 07:33:01 PM »
No, I don't see how it's offensive. 

 =| Really? Well... alrighty then.
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seeker_two

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2009, 01:08:48 PM »


 "The only good Muslim Zombie is a dead Muslim Zombie" ...

:How about now? Is anyone offended by this?... ???
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2009, 03:05:35 PM »
I have changed my mind.  In view of current events, I must conclude that my comment was racist, and I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people. ... That's the logical conclusion...
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seeker_two

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2009, 04:25:32 PM »
I have changed my mind.  In view of current events, I must conclude that my comment was racist, and I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people. ... That's the logical conclusion...

I doubt it....has anyone seen the price of sheets lately?...  :O
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2009, 04:36:34 PM »
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

red headed stranger

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2009, 01:31:51 AM »
:How about now? Is anyone offended by this?... ???


Um, they're already dead. 

The only good zombie is a headless zombie. 
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red headed stranger

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2009, 01:33:44 AM »
I have changed my mind.  In view of current events, I must conclude that my comment was racist, and I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people. ... That's the logical conclusion...

White sheets after labor day?  How uncouth!
Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2009, 04:32:20 PM »
Obama is a good Democrat :)

seeker_two

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2009, 04:55:22 PM »
Obama is a good Democrat :)

I find no fault in that statement....  =|

...neither do I find fault in the statement "Mussolini was a good fascist dictator"....
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 05:12:59 PM by seeker_two »
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2009, 05:03:21 PM »
That raises the obvious question good for what?

Depending on what you mean by "a good Democrat", anyone could be one.

mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2009, 05:46:37 PM »
That raises the obvious question good for what?

Depending on what you mean by "a good Democrat", anyone could be one.

Good for the citizens of the United States of America of course!

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2009, 06:00:15 PM »
Are you saying that you believe that Obama is good for the citizens of America?

???

mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2009, 06:01:50 PM »
Are you saying that you believe that Obama is good for the citizens of America?

???

Yes.  Not everyone here is a conservative Republican or Libertarian.

I am excited about the fact that things I feel are important are finally getting some attention in a constructive way!

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2009, 06:03:06 PM »
Good for American Citizens how, exactly?

Good for all American Citizens, or only some?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 06:22:40 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Nick1911

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2009, 06:06:00 PM »
I am excited about the fact that things I feel are important are finally getting some attention in a constructive way!

This begs the questions:

1. What things do you feel are important?
2. How are they getting some attention?  How does this differ from the past?
3. How is that attention constructive to the things you feel are important?

Just curious.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2009, 06:11:15 PM »
Are you saying that you believe that Obama is good for the citizens of America?
Yes.  Not everyone here is a conservative Republican or Libertarian.

I am excited about the fact that things I feel are important are finally getting some attention in a constructive way!

The implication being that Obama's political goals are good for those of his political persuasion, not so much for others. 

Shouldn't statesmen be working for the good of all; not just helping one set of interest groups at the expense of others?  Why not just do the right thing? 
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mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2009, 06:25:42 PM »
This begs the questions:

1. What things do you feel are important?
2. How are they getting some attention?  How does this differ from the past?
3. How is that attention constructive to the things you feel are important?

Just curious.

1. a) Healthcare reform, b) positive foreign policy, c) 'moral values' issues, to list the first three that pop into my mind.

2. a) The current healthcare reform debate, b) a less confrontational foreign policy based on the liberal and constructivist ideal and less on the realist idea c) less focus on them

3. a) I would rather see a publically funded health care system and this legislation moves in that direction, b) I see current international politics as being based more on results and less on cold-war dogma, c) I appreciate that we have better things to do than have the government making laws about sex

Yes.  Not everyone here is a conservative Republican or Libertarian.

I am excited about the fact that things I feel are important are finally getting some attention in a constructive way!


The implication being that Obama's political goals are good for those of his political persuasion, not so much for others. 

Shouldn't statesmen be working for the good of all; not just helping one set of interest groups at the expense of others?  Why not just do the right thing? 


Actually, the implication is that Obama's political goals will be better for America, which is what I wrote.  Why would I want to harm you?  You think your 'conservative' agenda helps the country, I think my 'liberal' agenda helps the country.  That is the essence of honest political disagreement isn't it?  Why would I think his agenda does not help you?  We live in the same country!

Flame on! :)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2009, 06:31:35 PM »
1. a) Healthcare reform, b) positive foreign policy, c) 'moral values' issues, to list the first three that pop into my mind.

2. a) The current healthcare reform debate, b) a less confrontational foreign policy based on the liberal and constructivist ideal and less on the realist idea c) less focus on them

3. a) I would rather see a publically funded health care system and this legislation moves in that direction, b) I see current international politics as being based more on results and less on cold-war dogma, c) I appreciate that we have better things to do than have the government making laws about sex


Yes, but how do you think that any of these are beneficial to the citizenry?

Are you of the opinion that intentions matter more than results?  I will agree that the ostensible intentions of the health care reforms is to benefit the citizenry, but it should be fairly clear that the results will be otherwise.  Likewise for most of the foreign policy failings going on right now.

mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2009, 06:55:49 PM »
Yes, but how do you think that any of these are beneficial to the citizenry?

Are you of the opinion that intentions matter more than results?  I will agree that the ostensible intentions of the health care reforms is to benefit the citizenry, but it should be fairly clear that the results will be otherwise.  Likewise for most of the foreign policy failings going on right now.

Yes, I do believe they will be beneficial, if I did not think they would be beneficial I would not support the policies.  I even gave examples of why I thought they would be beneficial.

In politics, I think results are the primary concern, as long as you make sure to examine long term consequences.  Of course, intention matters because you can't have consistently good results without consistent intentions.

Again, I simply challenge the assumption that everyone thinks like the typical conservative on this site.  Obviously, hundreds of millions of people do in America and in the world at large.

Jamisjockey

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2009, 06:58:22 PM »
Mellestad,
Intentions, nor results matter not.
It is not better to entitle someone to free this or that on the backs of those who work hard to earn what they have: it is immoral.  The government takes from the "rich" and gives to the "poor" at gunpoint.  Entitling one class over another, while allowing one class to have what they did not work for:  Immoral and unjust.
A truly free people have equal opportunity to succeed or fail, regardless of class or social status.  
You will argue that it is immoral for a civilized society to stand by while the less "fortunate" suffer.  Nobody's stopping YOU from doing something about it.  But to do so on my back?  That is just plain wrong. 
JD

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mellestad

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2009, 07:08:24 PM »
Mellestad,
Intentions, nor results matter not.
It is not better to entitle someone to free this or that on the backs of those who work hard to earn what they have: it is immoral.  The government takes from the "rich" and gives to the "poor" at gunpoint.  Entitling one class over another, while allowing one class to have what they did not work for:  Immoral and unjust.
A truly free people have equal opportunity to succeed or fail, regardless of class or social status.  
You will argue that it is immoral for a civilized society to stand by while the less "fortunate" suffer.  Nobody's stopping YOU from doing something about it.  But to do so on my back?  That is just plain wrong. 


That is, of course, a political opinion.  Making a political opinion out to be immoral is not helpful to anyone.  I disagree with the notion that 'socialism' is immoral or unjust.  If you want to advocate a total libertarian society that is fine, go do it.  But I fundamentally disagree with that notion.

Using the resources of a collective body to further that bodies own goals is what modern government is all about.  I think the government should do more than provide self-defense and a court system.  You might want a return to 1776, but I do not, nor do most citizens.  I am prepared to pay more taxes to make that happen, and I am prepared to make you pay more taxes to make that happen.

Politics is about who gets what, where and why.  This debate is an essential part of that!  I would challange you to oppose socialist ideas on their own merit, instead of attacking them with a plea to a nebulous moral authority that most citizens do not agree with.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2009, 07:11:15 PM »
Yes, I do believe they will be beneficial, if I did not think they would be beneficial I would not support the policies.  I even gave examples of why I thought they would be beneficial.

In politics, I think results are the primary concern, as long as you make sure to examine long term consequences.  Of course, intention matters because you can't have consistently good results without consistent intentions.

Again, I simply challenge the assumption that everyone thinks like the typical conservative on this site.  Obviously, hundreds of millions of people do in America and in the world at large.
You gave reasons why your preferred policies would be good for everyone?  I mean, reasons more involved than you're a Democrat supportng the Democrat viewpoint...?  Where?

I think we all agree that many people in this country think that liberal policies would be good for America.  Too many people, in fact.  We here on APS frequently lament the fact that so many people believe this stuff.

The pertinent question is, are all these people correct?  Presumably you're one of these people.  Perhaps you could give some good solid reasons why you think liberal/Democrat policies are good for the country.

Jamisjockey

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Re: A good Democrat?
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2009, 07:12:37 PM »
Government services?  Sure, everyone benefits.  Fire, police, sewer, water, public works.  
Welfare, "free" health care, yada yada?  What did that person do to deserve being just given whatever, over me?  Not a damn thing.  Creating an entitlement class is immoral.  
And as HTG says:  Prove that your socialist programs really are really so good for America. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”