Author Topic: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen  (Read 35049 times)

Ron

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2010, 11:00:44 PM »
Clearly, cops are out of control everywhere.  They're being fueled by a never ending avalanche of laws criminalizing EVERYTHING.

The first sentence is  inflammatory and hyperbole.

The second statement is true, more or less.
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2010, 01:17:53 AM »
The police report paints a dramatically different picture.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33557136/Dallas-Org-El-Reno-Police-Report-on-Lona-Varner
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2010, 01:41:46 AM »
The police report paints a dramatically different picture.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33557136/Dallas-Org-El-Reno-Police-Report-on-Lona-Varner

Yes; before, we might have thought that the officer's English teachers were competent.  Now we know better.

Still, they haven't disputed that the woman was 86, heavily medicated and bedridden.  If she'd even been standing at the time, I would have a lot more sympathy for the cops not wanting to wrestle her for the knife, but laying down is a position of extreme disadvantage in a knife fight.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2010, 02:03:11 AM »
And police don't lie on reports?  I remember a drug raid in Atlanta that was all based on a lie. Cops on trial, and should be put in prison or excuted for killing a person on a bridge in New Orleans, lying on the report, superiors who were not there lied on reports to aid in covering up.


I'll wait to see what the final court outcome is. Sorry. A cops word no longer has any value to me. The report could be accurate, could be false. Id like to know more facts. But from all the info provided so far, it's pretty damning for all the officers. IMO
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 02:07:03 AM by Battle Monkey of Zardoz »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2010, 05:32:46 AM »
Id like to know more facts.

thats a new trend
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2010, 12:09:23 AM »
generally in my experience whenever someone starts a statement with "clearly" its anything but.  in much the same way a person who starts a statement with "to tell you the truth" is letting you know that many times he isn't so he has to qualify when he is

Clearly, shootingstudent is extremely urgent is extricating truth but generally howitzers indicate frequent heartburn. :lol:
funny the words that pop into yer head when just staring at the keyboard. lots intent yes why!?
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2010, 01:10:13 AM »
Quote
thats a new trend

No. You not helping lay down the blue line of cops never do wrong would be a change.
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2010, 02:16:22 AM »
No. You not helping lay down the blue line of cops never do wrong would be a change.

In CSD's defense he doesn't go to the mat for cops patrolling the border the way he does for other cops.  Like most folks, a one dimensional caricature he is not. 

[For my own part, I am just the opposite: cops who deal with non-citizens get more slack due to the fact that they are not dealing with American citizens, most times.  I prioritize citizens and their liberties higher than non-citizens every day of the week and twice on Sundays.]
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2010, 02:18:11 AM »
Quote
[For my own part, I am just the opposite: cops who deal with non-citizens get more slack due to the fact that they are not dealing with American citizens, most times.  I prioritize citizens and their liberties higher than non-citizens every day of the week and twice on Sundays.]

You'll get no arguement/complaint from on that.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2010, 06:22:34 AM »
are there genuine times when cops cross the line?  sure .  however they represent a small percentage of the times great outrage is feigned or attempted.
some is authority/father issues/  a lot has to do with folks who never got over losing that bag of primo bud.   its a shame those kinda folks dilute and diminish the truly valid important cases.  in much the same way a false claim of rape or abuse harms the cases of the legitimate ones.   i dare say i've had my share and part of a couple other guys share of police interaction and mine all came from doing the crime not from following the oracle balko's semi factual work.  one of the worst casualties of the "wod" has been the relationship betweeen cops and noncops/"victimless criminals"
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2010, 09:04:41 AM »
Quote
some is authority/father issues/  a lot has to do with folks who never got over losing that bag of primo bud

An ad hominem if I ever heard one.
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seeker_two

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2010, 09:11:51 AM »
"Aggressive" invalid status aside, the fact that the cops used a taser in an environment with oxygen and flammables (i.e. bedsheets, clothing, etc.).....could have ended up a whole lot worse....

Another thing.....when tasers were first introduced, they were NOT meant as a "compliance tool", but as an option to lethal force (taser an armed suspect instead of wrestling or shooting them).  LEO agencies need to reasess their ROE involving taser use.....
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2010, 09:59:02 AM »
are there genuine times when cops cross the line?  sure .  however they represent a small percentage of the times great outrage is feigned or attempted.
some is authority/father issues/  a lot has to do with folks who never got over losing that bag of primo bud.   its a shame those kinda folks dilute and diminish the truly valid important cases.  in much the same way a false claim of rape or abuse harms the cases of the legitimate ones.   i dare say i've had my share and part of a couple other guys share of police interaction and mine all came from doing the crime not from following the oracle balko's semi factual work.  one of the worst casualties of the "wod" has been the relationship betweeen cops and noncops/"victimless criminals"

I'd sign on to most of that, including the bit about authority issues.  Lotsa folks can't abide being told what to do, no matter the circumstances. 

For my own part, my "authority issues" came after my time in the service and their nature has nothing to do with resentment over being told what to do.  I figure that pretty much everyone on Earth answers to someone: management, customers, family, etc.  There are very, very few who don't.  Maybe solitary subsistence farmers/hunters.  And many are in positions of authority to direct others' actions.  Also, most folks wear some sort of uniform.  Sometimes it is called "business casual," sometimes "work clothes" or such. 

Again, my authority issues are a bit different.  See, I had the honor of working under the authority of some terrific men.  Very high quality folks who earn much less than the average LEO.  The sort of folks who inspired confidence in their abilities and that you wouldn't get killed due to their dumbassery or malfeasance.  They may have had rank, but they earned their authority the hard way.

Most LEOs don't measure up(0).  Most are truly lesser men and it doesn't take long to figure it out.  Yet, most of these lesser men act as if they had earned the authority the claim rather than merely borrowing it from the state & the citizenry.  When it comes down to it, I am not surprised when lesser men abuse their authority.  I see many of them kinda like soft-headed children running around with chain saws: amoral and not too bright, but dangerous, nonetheless.  Best to not come to their attention.



Where I differ is that I think it occurs much more often than you acknowledge.  The vast majority of the time, it happens to dirt bags nobody cares about, not even other dirt bags.  Only the most egregious/outrageous ever see the light of day and most times even those are discounted, due to the fact that the LEOs are sticking it to---you guessed it--a dirt bag with a record. 

The big stinks are caused when LEOs treat regular, decent, taxpaying folk like they are used to treating dirt bags.  The LEOs are all sorts of surprised by the reaction, since that is how they treat any and all that come their way.  Their question seems to be, "Why should this person get privileged treatment?"

We hear from LEO-excusing apologists "What do you expect to happen?" if one doesn't grovel in the face of LEO authority.  "He was lucky he didn't have the crap beat out of him even more."  That is, IMO, the counsel of toadies to LEOs and LEO authority.


(0)  A USAF buddy in jump school had the same issue after he completed SF Scuba before jump school.  He thought the Black Hats a bunch of ridiculous puffed up jokes after Scuba.  In his case, he had trouble hiding it.



An ad hominem if I ever heard one.

I'd have to agree, though the accusation of ad hominem does not undermine the validity of the charge.

Stealing someone's property by means of authority is still stealing, from a moral standpoint.  Doesn't matter if it a bag of buds, cash a man was to use to purchase material for his business, or the destruction caused by a "dynamic" raid when a knock, a warrant, and an open door would have sufficed.

Folks should get angry over theft and folks should be suspicious of authority held by those in government.  The Founders sure were.
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roo_ster

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 11:35:17 AM »
This was a grandMOTHER right? If so, what exactly was she doing in WW2 killing 4 Japs as claimed she said in the police report?
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2010, 11:50:08 AM »
This was a grandMOTHER right? If so, what exactly was she doing in WW2 killing 4 Japs as claimed she said in the police report?
Regrettably, sometimes in war you use politically incorrect terms and you kill people.

Back on topic, if you can't subdue a bedridden 86 yr old woman ( knife or not ) perhaps a police career isn't your best choice.
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2010, 11:58:46 AM »
This was a grandMOTHER right? If so, what exactly was she doing in WW2 killing 4 Japs as claimed she said in the police report?
By my calcs, she would be 21 in 1945, thus 18 in 1942. I know the OSS hired females, but I don't think (m)any female field agents were sent to the Pacific.  ???

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2010, 12:05:13 PM »
i think granny had a bit or maybe more than a bit of dementia going on.  that can be fun to handle. we had a guy like that out here kill another resident of the home they lived in a while back body slammed the smaller guy to death
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2010, 12:23:31 PM »
See, I had the honor of working under the authority of some terrific men.  Very high quality folks who earn much less than the average LEO.  The sort of folks who inspired confidence in their abilities and that you wouldn't get killed due to their dumbassery or malfeasance.  They may have had rank, but they earned their authority the hard way.

Most LEOs don't measure up(0).  Most are truly lesser men and it doesn't take long to figure it out.  Yet, most of these lesser men act as if they had earned the authority the claim rather than merely borrowing it from the state & the citizenry.  When it comes down to it, I am not surprised when lesser men abuse their authority.  I see many of them kinda like soft-headed children running around with chain saws: amoral and not too bright, but dangerous, nonetheless.  Best to not come to their attention.



you were lucky to have known those kinda leaders. it sets a high standard and likely the average cop , heck average man, will fall way short. I tend to think of cops as just the average guy with the same limitations. We do expect them to be a lot and some of them are not gonna rise to the occasion. we get what we pay for. i'd rank the joys of teaching in an inner city high school as comparable to being a cop.  if there are bad ones we bear some of the responsibility if we tolerate em . see a bad one?  do something about it. in a life that had  a ton of interaction i saw very lil in the way of egregious behavior . i saw most  guys that were decent and tried some that were low performers and a few that were outstanding. i did run into the same problem cop that gave the open carry guys the blues in manassas. shes a real blank with a john wayne attitude.  her union keeps her employed.   the one thing i would change about cops after the war on drugs would be the union nonsense.  that as always protects and enables the less competent
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2010, 01:59:40 PM »
not to accuse the op of having an agenda or anything... >:D

but what a surprise that grandson and the lawyer forgot to mention granny had a knife.purely an accidental oversight i'm sure.  take it from a guy who like old folks and worked in a home  some of em are mean and aggressive. at least she didn't have a gun.   heck cops shoulda just left and let her die. or let grandson handle her.  oops  he couldn't  he hada call 911
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2010, 02:42:05 PM »
So, Granny had a butter knife under her pillow?

Being from El Reno, she was apparently familiar with the local cops' SOP.

DD  >:D   [popcorn]
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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2010, 02:49:34 PM »
am i the only one thinking of, reno 911? [tinfoil]

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2010, 04:57:10 PM »
You know.  It really does not matter what said dirtbag did or what he deserves to get.  I hear the excuse all the time "well he deserved the cops thumping him, because he screwed up".  That sounds all fine and good, but its BS.  You see, these things called rights are constant.  They apply to everyone, even the knucklehead to screwed up and is suspected of a crime.  The least amount of force necessary..Not lets use more force becasue he deserves it.
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MechAg94

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2010, 08:00:36 PM »
You know.  It really does not matter what said dirtbag did or what he deserves to get.  I hear the excuse all the time "well he deserved the cops thumping him, because he screwed up".  That sounds all fine and good, but its BS.  You see, these things called rights are constant.  They apply to everyone, even the knucklehead to screwed up and is suspected of a crime.  The least amount of force necessary..Not lets use more force becasue he deserves it.
What "less force" did you imagine? 

One other thing I think is common to people who like to assume the worst about cops is they assume the cops are hand to hand combat experts in any situation with any weapon.  (Yeah, that is an exaggeration, just like all the ones about blue lines and 'apologists'.)

Just the idea that the steak knife and potential suicide were not mentioned in the op says a lot to me.  I was wondering why a bunch of cops showed up to tase granny.  That provides a better explanation that anything else I have seen. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2010, 08:06:05 PM »
it was just an oversight that they forgot about the knife  surely the op woulda mentioned it if his "research" had uncovered it.
i have a friend who whined to me from jail about the broken ribs he had from "those pigs!" tackling him. i had to point out to art that he had a knife and told them he was gonna gut them.  i woulda shot him.  funniest part is art was a cop till better living through modern chemistry culled him from the leo herd. his resentment comes from his partner dropping the dime on him
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2010, 03:57:30 PM »
Quote
see a bad one?  do something about it.

Quote
some is authority/father issues/  a lot has to do with folks who never got over losing that bag of primo bud.

I wonder why anyone would be hesitant to say anything about being mistreated by a cop? Not because cops word > non-cops word in a court (try saying a cop lied about how fast you were going sometime, see how well that works). Certainly not fear of retribution from the cop (after he gets done with his paid vacation administrative suspension or from his buddies. Perhaps it's because so many people assume anyone who has a negative interaction with the cops is just a criminal or otherwise "had it coming." I'm reminded of the pastor who got shot by the undercovers that rolled up on him after he left an atm.
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