Author Topic: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls  (Read 11011 times)

41magsnub

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Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« on: July 13, 2010, 12:44:53 PM »
I'm no fan of Carly Fiorina and think she caused a great deal of damage in her tenure at HP, but still she has to be an improvement over BB right?  Granted..  2 points means nothing..  beyond that Polls don't really mean much either.

http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/fiorina-leads-boxer-first-time-california-senate-race

Fiorina Leads Boxer for First Time in California Senate Race
BY John McCormack
July 12, 2010 10:12 PM
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California Democratic senator Barbara boxer is trailing Republican challenger Carly Fiorina by 2 points--47% to 45%--in a new SurveyUSA poll of likely voters released this evening. Fiorina has been closing in on Boxer--cutting the Democrat's lead from six, to five, to four, to three points in the last four polls--but this is the first public poll showing Fiorina in the lead.

HankB

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 02:31:41 PM »
I'm no fan of Carly Fiorina and think she caused a great deal of damage in her tenure at HP, but still she has to be an improvement over BB right?
An improvement is an improvement - sometimes there's no way to go but up, even if the alternative isn't something you can really get behind.

For example, Scott Brown in Mass. indicated that he was going to vote with Obama on the financial regulations bill - he is NOT the sort of senator I like to see up on Capitol Hill.

But just look at what he replaced!  [barf]

I expect Fiorina to be a RINO, but with her there's a chance she'll vote correctly on some issues.

Not so either one of those batty women currently representing CA in the US Senate.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 03:34:45 PM »
The thing about RINOS is that they still make all the difference over a Democrat when it comes time to control the house/senate and get all the committee assignments, judicial nomination votes etc.

Sigh...
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MechAg94

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 03:36:46 PM »
Do you want a guy who says he is on your side and votes with you some of the time or a guy who will never vote with you at all?  In politics, it seems the former is often the better choice. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

longeyes

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
The reality is that Carly and Meg are the best we can do right now in California.  It's not ideal but, hey, it's something.  One step at a time, as the man says.

I've heard that Carly's tenure at HP was stormy because she forced a company that had made its bones on being "an engineer's company," with all that implies, recognize that they were now living in a world where computers were largely commodities.  She had to fight the entrenched culture to keep the firm viable.  Fact is, HP, unlike some others, is still around and still making money.
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41magsnub

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 04:36:47 PM »
The reality is that Carly and Meg are the best we can do right now in California.  It's not ideal but, hey, it's something.  One step at a time, as the man says.

I've heard that Carly's tenure at HP was stormy because she forced a company that had made its bones on being "an engineer's company," with all that implies, recognize that they were now living in a world where computers were largely commodities.  She had to fight the entrenched culture to keep the firm viable.  Fact is, HP, unlike some others, is still around and still making money.

I've experienced the exact opposite as an HP customer.  They went from a preferred vendor for servers, workstations, and printers to one of last resort during her tenure largely as a result of her changes.  The quality of products nose dived and they made it more difficult to sell and support them.  They have yet to recover.

longeyes

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 09:56:05 PM »
I hold no brief for Fiorina or HP (although I've owned several HP computers).  My point is that in a bitterly competitive market HP has survived while others have not.  Maybe Fiorina had nothing to do with that; then again...
"Domari nolo."

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AJ Dual

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 10:45:39 PM »
Yep, she largely took them from a computer company, to one that sold ink in little boxes at something like $2000 an ounce.  [tinfoil]
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Silver Bullet

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 10:49:17 PM »
I hold no brief for Fiorina or HP (although I've owned several HP computers).  My point is that in a bitterly competitive market HP has survived while others have not.  Maybe Fiorina had nothing to do with that; then again...

From everything I've read, she almost drove them into the ground.

However, everything I read was from Slashdot, and they have their own biases.

mtnbkr

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 06:29:22 AM »
I've experienced the exact opposite as an HP customer.  They went from a preferred vendor for servers, workstations, and printers to one of last resort during her tenure largely as a result of her changes.  The quality of products nose dived and they made it more difficult to sell and support them.  They have yet to recover.

This.  You don't see HP in datacenters as much as you used to.  I know my current shop is a big Dell shop.

I hold no brief for Fiorina or HP (although I've owned several HP computers).  My point is that in a bitterly competitive market HP has survived while others have not.  Maybe Fiorina had nothing to do with that; then again...

If you want to call that surviving.  I would never buy an HP desktop and these days I won't buy an HP server.  My last HP printer was such a disappointment, I probably won't buy another printer from them either.

Chris

HankB

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 09:28:11 AM »
Yep, she largely took them from a computer company, to one that sold ink in little boxes at something like $2000 an ounce.  [tinfoil]
And when they advertise their printers with "cartridge included" . . . they conveniently omit the fact that the included cartridge only has a little ink in it - it isn't full.

They want you to buy more ASAP.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
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Silver Bullet

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 11:08:46 AM »
Of course, no matter how bad she was as a corporate executive, she will still be way better to have as Esteemed Senator from California than Boxer.   :cool:

BReilley

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 12:14:48 PM »
The reality is that Carly and Meg are the best we can do right now in California.  It's not ideal but, hey, it's something.  One step at a time, as the man says.

I've heard that Carly's tenure at HP was stormy because she forced a company that had made its bones on being "an engineer's company," with all that implies, recognize that they were now living in a world where computers were largely commodities.  She had to fight the entrenched culture to keep the firm viable.  Fact is, HP, unlike some others, is still around and still making money.

Fiorina has been on Prager's show and talks a good game.  Who can say what anyone would do if actually voted in(see Scott Brown), but she seems to be saying the right things now.

I have heard that Whitman is putting up Spanish-language ads exclaiming her disapproval of AZ 1070.  Just whose vote does she think she's going to gain?  She may yet win the election, but she will have lost a great deal of respect along the way.

longeyes

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 12:58:17 PM »
As good as we can get.  More conservative candidates (Chuck DeVore, e.g.) don't make it here.  Demography is destiny.

Quote
I know my current shop is a big Dell shop.

Yeah, let's see, wasn't Dell the computer suppplier that KNOWINGLY sold a ****load of computers with bad chips?  Well, yeah, it was.  Enjoy.

I don't work for HP, and I don't own their stock, and I'm not engaged to Fiorina.  The computer business is a global commodity business now, and Fiorina reflected that, for better or worse.  Perhaps a smaller, meaner, leaner, more quality-oriented HP could have survived, but with far fewer employees and with a much smaller market share.  It's a choice they made.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 01:26:22 PM »
What's wrong with HP printers?  THe very moment I can afford one, I'm swapping my Samsung "Does it want to feed today?" laser multifunction for an HP.  I got the Samsung after my Brother "No, it doesn't want to work today" laser multifunction crapped out two weeks out of the box.  Seems like no one can touch HP printers, at least not for low- to mid-range lasers and multifunctions.

41magsnub

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 01:49:32 PM »
On the mid size and larger front, HP totally dropped the ball.  Their multifunction printers are embarrassingly bad.  They physically function ok, but the network side of them is stuck in the 90s.  We are an HP reseller, but have taken to referring any multifunction needs to our various partners that put out Canons, Sharps, and etc.  We have a 3000 series color multifunction in our office and it endures daily threats of violence due to how hard it is to get it to scan something.

The servers used to be on par with IBM.  Now they are at the bottom of the pile.  Dell has made mistakes, no question there.  However, from my experience and in the areas I even give a crap about (servers and workstations which should not be at all confused with the consumer desktop and laptop lines) Dell is far and away better than HP now.  So is IBM. I do not have recent experience with the consumer models from any of the vendors and plan to keep it that way.

The only time we will sell an HP server is if the customer asks for it by name or if we need a server right now and have to get it overnighted.  When we do this the out of box failure rate is shockingly high.  We don't have this problem with Dell or IBM, there is bad hardware from time to time of course but it is by far the exception rather than the rule.  When we call either of those companies for support there is minimal run around and somebody takes ownership of the ticket.  Dell has their server support in the US while HP has outsourced to Sri Lanka or India.  With HP we have to do a lot of bird dogging of our tickets to get resolution with multiple contacts to deal with where with Dell they manage things.

For standalone laser printers we still put out a lot of HP and that is about the only high point in the entire product lineup at this point.  

Their partner program has exponentially increased in complexity with different reps for every variation of customer you can think of.  Our sales people hate it when they have to spec HP for any sort of school, .gov entity, or a non-profit.  The run around trying to get somebody to generate a quote is incredible.  This week one sales guy was forwarded 7 times within HP to different staff before he was handled, and this was a $100,000+ order for a school district.  HP has a website to configure this stuff but it is unusable far more often than not.

All of this started under her tenure and her organizational changes.  

longeyes

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 06:25:25 PM »
Fine, vote for Boxer, she will be great for the computer industry.  But not ours, probably.
"Domari nolo."

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41magsnub

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 06:38:12 PM »
Fine, vote for Boxer, she will be great for the computer industry.  But not ours, probably.
Um..  what?  All we are saying is she was a disaster for HP but still probably better than Boxer (as would a Chihuahua).  If I were a CA resident I would most likely vote for Carly, but would feel just as disgusted as I did voting for McCain over Obama.  Just being better than the alternative does not get one a pass from criticism for failings.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 06:44:45 PM by 41magsnub »

thebaldguy

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 06:46:23 PM »
I'm not a fan of either candidate, but I'd take anyone over Boxer. Boxer is beatable given the current state of affairs. I think Fiorina would make a better senator than Boxer.

As far as HP goes, I like their products. I have a HP desktop that's 6+ years old, and a 5+ year old laptop and both work well. I got a HP printer last year as I print a lot of Racing Forms and my Canon, Epson, and Epson died after only two or three years. Friends of mine who have HP printers like them.

I'm sure she's a nice gal, but I wasn't crazy with Fiorina as the head of HP. I don't think the merger with Compaq did them any good. There was quite a bit of opposition of a merger. If I remember right, soon after the merger she was fired with a $20 million severance package. There was a lot of feminist talk that she was fired because of her gender when she left.

HankB

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 07:19:11 AM »
Fine, vote for Boxer, she will be great for the computer industry.  But not ours, probably.
If I were - Heaven forbid! - a California resident, I'd hold my nose, suppress my gag reflex, and vote for Fiorina against Boxer . . .

Sad to day, I haven't been able to cast a postive ballot - voting for someone, rather than against someone - for a long time.
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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Ben

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 10:06:52 AM »
Sad to day, I haven't been able to cast a postive ballot - voting for someone, rather than against someone - for a long time.

I've been swaying on the fence on for/against voting for a few years now. In the last CA gubernatorial elections, I voted FOR McClintock for all the good it did me. Nevertheless I would do the same again in a heartbeat. In the Fiorina and Boxer race, I will hold my nose and vote Fiorina because Boxer is simply evil.

One of my main concerns on Fiorina is that I can't seem to find her position anywhere on certain things that are very important to me, like the 2nd Amendment. I always worry when a CA conservative candidate doesn't have a clear position on something, because I can never figure out if they're laying low to get libs to vote for them, or to keep conservatives from voting against them.  
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 11:19:18 AM by Ben »
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longeyes

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 11:14:36 AM »
No one here would pick Fiorina or Whitman as our ideal candidate.  But they are what we have.

Of course, one could argue that Jerry Moonbeam probably isn't the Democratic Party's ideal candidate either.

Conservatives are an embattled species in California, and it's just going to have to play out.  I don't see either gubernatorial candidate being able to do much to retard California's fiscal slide toward utter insolvency and social fragmentation.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 12:35:27 PM »
Yep, even a RINO winning in CA is a big deal, and shows just how weak the Democrats are this election cycle.

Thinking back to the '94 landslides, with nothing to really telegraph it would happen, (in the MSM at least) and arguably less provocation from Clinton, only the '94 AWB comes to mind, vs. 6 HUGE issues with the voters this time:

The economy
Stimulus spending
Healthcare
Deficit
BP
Weakness in foreign affairs

This COULD be a rout of unimaginable proportions.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 12:52:03 PM »
Quote
No one here would pick Fiorina or Whitman as our ideal candidate.  But they are what we have.

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Re: Barbara Boxer is Trailing in the Polls
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 01:03:14 PM »
Thinking back to the '94 landslides, with nothing to really telegraph it would happen, (in the MSM at least) and arguably less provocation from Clinton, only the '94 AWB comes to mind, vs. 6 HUGE issues with the voters this time:

The economy
Stimulus spending
Healthcare
Deficit
BP
Weakness in foreign affairs

What'd I do?  I haven't even been to California since 2003.
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