Author Topic: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site  (Read 102042 times)

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2010, 12:43:09 PM »
Somebody should file an environmental impact lawsuit against them to stop this!!!!  [popcorn] [popcorn] ;)


Hey ... it was prophesized!!!  [tinfoil]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,176
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2010, 01:03:43 PM »
Participant recording

Because Michigan’s definition of “eavesdrop” is to “overhear, record, amplify or transmit any part of the private discourse of others,” Michigan courts have held that participant recording (even without the consent of the other parties) is not prohibited. Therefore, a party to the conversation can record the conversation himself without obtaining the consent of the other parties. He cannot, however, employ a third party to record the conversation on his behalf without getting the consent of all the parties.


and thats where the evangelical arab christian kid stepped on his own pecker. and what part of no video taping was hard for him to understand?

why is it hard for you to understand the people who attacked "the evangelical arab christian kid" were totally breaking the law by putting their hands on private property?
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

kgbsquirrel

  • APS Photoshop God
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,466
  • Bill, slayer of threads.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2010, 01:14:21 PM »
why is it hard for you to understand the people who attacked "the evangelical arab christian kid" were totally breaking the law by putting their hands on private property and their persons'?

FTFY



One side violated eavesdropping law, and the other committed assault and (possibly, perhaps attempted?) vandalism. So which side is "right"?

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2010, 01:26:56 PM »
I'll get worked up just as soon as the developers gain complete control over the land they claim to have.  It appears they control only part of the lot. 
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/half_baked_mosque_8ItuaW0WIByZa5xZ0rCmpJ
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2010, 02:15:42 PM »
The issue is not whether they're allowed to build mosques, the issue is whether they're allowed to build mosques right there.

If I want to build a Lutheran church, I can't just begin construction any ol' place I want.  For that matter, if I want to build a house, store, factory, farm, or skyscraper, I can't just break ground any place I feel like.  This is nothing new, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 1st amendment.  

For those who've forgotten, the 1A says that congress can't prohibit the free exercise of religion.  It does not say that religious people are allowed to go anywhere they want and do anything they want without regard to others, as these Imams seem to think.  

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2010, 03:30:39 PM »
now that would be illegal

And?.....legal ramifications have never stopped unions before....

Ayep.   It would raise the question, "If the cops and firefighters don't want to do their job, why are we paying them?"   


I doubt most of NYC would have a problem with it.....

Any government enforced discrimination needs to be beaten down, hard.  That's a road to hell we never want to follow again.



Last I checked, the gov't didn't run the unions.....maybe the other way around...
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2010, 03:40:33 PM »
 

For those who've forgotten, the 1A says that congress can't prohibit the free exercise of religion.  It does not say that religious people are allowed to go anywhere they want and do anything they want without regard to others, as these Imams seem to think.  

This.


Oh, and why is it liberals want to appease Muslims so bad?  They're willing to piss all over Christians....but the Muslims must be appeased at all costs?
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2010, 03:43:04 PM »
This.


Oh, and why is it liberals want to appease Muslims so bad?  They're willing to piss all over Christians....but the Muslims must be appeased at all costs?

Christians believe in turning the other cheek.

Muslims believe in beheading you.

Obviously liberals are making a courageous, moral choice here.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

kgbsquirrel

  • APS Photoshop God
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,466
  • Bill, slayer of threads.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2010, 03:47:55 PM »
This.


Oh, and why is it liberals want to appease Muslims so bad?  They're willing to piss all over Christians....but the Muslims must be appeased at all costs?

Because certain Muslim rooted factions have shown an ability and willingness to arbitrate their disagreements through mass acts of violence against seemingly unassociated groups of people who would by all accounts be deemed non-combatants?

S. Williamson

  • formerly Dionysusigma
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,034
  • It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2010, 04:14:46 PM »
Religious and freedom are two words that can never be conjoined when you are talking about Islam.  And Obama knows this full well.
Why not?
Convert to Islam.  See if you like it.  If you do, then great!  =)

If it's not what you'd hoped, and decide to revert or change to another belief, you cannot.  Such one-way doors, backed by violence and murder, are proof enough that 'Religious and freedom are two words that can never be conjoined when you are talking about Islam.'  Unless, of course, there's a negative placed somewhere between them.
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

Bigjake

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,024
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2010, 04:53:19 PM »
Wow, it suddenly feels like I'm at DU!    =D

"I don't like something that is Constitutionally protected because it feels wrong to me, so I think the government should step in and fix the situation to my liking.  Because that totally works awesome and never backfires horribly."

Look, I think that the mosque next door to the 9/11 site is really screwed up and begging to start trouble.  I don't think it'd be bad for anyone, government or not, to say "It's a free country, but you're being a total (insert favorite profanity) and trying to start something."  This is not yelling 'fire' in a crowd, and it's blatantly obvious.  What they want to do is entirely legal and entirely a bad, insulting idea.  Much like Fred Phelps. 

Next thing you're gonna hear in this thread is how someone should file an environmental lawsuit against them. 

Sickening, but true.

I'm still slightly shocked it going to be built.  Not overly surprised though.  You'd have figured that the whole "Historical building"  gambit would've been more than enough to deep six this marvel of stupidity.  I'm completely ok with the .gov using an existing law on the books to block an evil, spiteful, private enterprise.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2010, 05:55:04 PM »
Convert to Islam.  See if you like it.  If you do, then great!  =)

If it's not what you'd hoped, and decide to revert or change to another belief, you cannot.  Such one-way doors, backed by violence and murder, are proof enough that 'Religious and freedom are two words that can never be conjoined when you are talking about Islam.'  Unless, of course, there's a negative placed somewhere between them.

Gee, I notice how regularly it is enforced in America.  I know a couple of folks that converted from Islam.  Their relatives gave them a hard time about it, but I've known former Amish folks that got rougher treatment. 

Your argument is entirely and completely valid in third world theocratic hell-holes.  Not so much here.  Granted, there are fairly rare incidents of mostly immigrants from said third world hell-holes doing completely screwed up things.  Honor killings, female mutilation, etc.  It's not entirely an Islamic thing, it's a third world hell-hole thing.


Christians believe in turning the other cheek.

Muslims believe in beheading you.

Obviously liberals are making a courageous, moral choice here.

 ;/

True, I will admit, no Christian has ever tried to behead me.  Kill me, sure.  But not behead.  Then again, I did see some of the corpses yanked out of a few mass graves that would beheading look positively humane and quite civil.  Nothing like wiring someone up with steel cable, throwing them in a ditch, and burying them alive.  Sometimes with a bit of mutilation, rape, castration, etc first, just to spice things up, sometimes not.  Hey, Christians get bored too. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Muslims don't do evil things.  Believe me, I know they are capable of some impressive feats of evilness.  But trying to pretend that all Christians follow their religion's words on "peace" and "turning the other cheek" is entertaining, but not accurate. 


This.


Oh, and why is it liberals want to appease Muslims so bad?  They're willing to piss all over Christians....but the Muslims must be appeased at all costs?

Not saying you're wrong, you're not.  But Christians aren't exactly being oppressed in this country.   I can't drive an hour in any direction and not see a dozen churches.  All tax exempt, and more or less free to say whatever the hell they want.  I see Bibles for sale in virtually all bookshops and most book sections of big box stores.  Hell, virtually ANY hotel room I visit has a bible in it, provided by Gideon.  Where's the hardcore oppression?   Sure, I'd never contest that they're more than happy to piss off Christians at any possible moment.

Though I've had more than a few rant and rave to the point of near foaming at the mouth about how stores saying "Happy Holidays" is on par with Roman pagans feeding Christians to the lions.  They tend to get pretty upset when you sigh and lament "Good times, good times".

 =D

(Just to clarify and a disclaimer, I do not want to force all Christians to fight wildlife with their bare hands for entertainment purposes.  Just some specific ones for reasons mainly having nothing to do with their religion.)



Again, respectfully speaking, as a non-Christian and non-Muslim, I laugh whenever I see both sides making the SAME EXACT arguments.  It's absolutely hysterical.  It's almost as funny as watching liberal and conservative statists making the SAME EXACT arguments, just about different subjects.  Some of you guys have no idea how much you sound like my fellow Democrats.  It's awesome, it really is.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2010, 06:02:11 PM »
Gee, I notice how regularly it is enforced in America.  I know a couple of folks that converted from Islam.  Their relatives gave them a hard time about it, but I've known former Amish folks that got rougher treatment. 

Your argument is entirely and completely valid in third world theocratic hell-holes.  Not so much here.  Granted, there are fairly rare incidents of mostly immigrants from said third world hell-holes doing completely screwed up things.  Honor killings, female mutilation, etc.  It's not entirely an Islamic thing, it's a third world hell-hole thing.



Yeah, those people from West Virginia do often have a tough time integrating....  >:D
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2010, 07:22:14 PM »
god!  jamis said what i was thinking.... one of us should be upset >:D
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2010, 09:00:56 PM »
Personally, I'm more offended by the strip clubs at ground zero.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

Bigjake

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,024
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2010, 10:04:16 PM »
Personally, I'm more offended by the strip clubs at ground zero.

Unless you were going for tongue-in-cheek on that,  however offensive a strip club might be to you,  it never advocated blowing up civilians.  (or at least, none of them that I've ever seen)

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2010, 10:41:05 PM »
Unless you were going for tongue-in-cheek on that,  however offensive a strip club might be to you,  it never advocated blowing up civilians.  (or at least, none of them that I've ever seen)

Tongue in cheek.

Christians advocate killing and blowing up of civilians, too.  It doesn't mean all Christians are evil, does it?
Do you think Muslim Americans want to blow up this country and kill civilians?
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

taurusowner

  • Guest
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2010, 10:44:55 PM »
Quote
Do you think Muslim Americans want to blow up this country and kill civilians?

Some?  Absolutely.

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2010, 10:56:58 PM »
it never advocated blowing up civilians.  (or at least, none of them that I've ever seen)


Depends on what you mean by "blowing"....  ;)
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2010, 11:19:07 PM »
Some?  Absolutely.

Not all of them?

How many Christians do you think are terrorists in the United States, too?

Extremists scare me more than any one religion.  I don't think Muslims are scary (though I think Islam is a particularly restrictive and disgusting religion) nor do I think Christians are scary.  I think Extremists are scary.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,386
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2010, 11:22:16 PM »
Killing one person is terrorism? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2010, 11:30:15 PM »
Killing one person is terrorism?  

Quote from: # ^ U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)
the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;

Quote
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

So yes, it applies.

Besides, as I'm sure you know, this was not the only episode of terrorism against abortion doctors.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

taurusowner

  • Guest
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2010, 11:34:14 PM »
I don't think killing abortion doctors is terrorism.  Vigilantism, yes.  Terrorism, no.

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2010, 11:37:07 PM »
I don't think killing abortion doctors is terrorism.  Vigilantism, yes.  Terrorism, no.

Why not? It fits the definition.  You don't think violence against abortion doctors is premeditated, politically motivated violence?

Are they not terrorists to you because you agree with them?
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

taurusowner

  • Guest
Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2010, 11:49:11 PM »
Why not? It fits the definition.  You don't think violence against abortion doctors is premeditated, politically motivated violence?

Are they not terrorists to you because you agree with them?

You can stretch "politically motivated" to mean anything you want.  And the root word of "terrorism" is "terror".  Abortion doctor killings are not meant to terrorize other people.  They are meant to eliminate what the killer sees as a murderer.  As with any form of vigilantism, it is an act where a private citizen takes it upon himself to fill in for the justice system that he sees as failing to prosecute criminals.  In the mind of someone who kills abortion doctors, it is not meant to make some wide poltical message or instill fear in the masses.  It is an attempt to inflict capital punishment, albeit in an illegal manner, upon someone they see as a murderer.  Vigilantism yes, terrorism no.