Author Topic: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams  (Read 11471 times)

zahc

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Incidentally videoing police officer in a public place during traffic stop--illegal wiretapping.

Remotely activating webcams to spy on dozens/hundreds of school age children in the privacy of their bedrooms without their consent--not wiretapping.

Isn't it obvious how quaint is becoming the idea of equality under the law?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-17-laptop-spying_N.htm
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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 11:29:18 PM »
The Hell!?

I thought these administrators were going to get smacked around for this bullcrap. Now, they know they can get away with it. The pervs are rejoicing...



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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 11:30:09 PM »
mens rea
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 11:34:50 PM »
Mens rea is an antiquated and much-forgotten concept for many criminal cases, why not this one?  [popcorn]
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zxcvbob

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 12:14:32 AM »
I assume a civil suit is still going forward?  (amazing how kiddie porn is OK if you work for the .gov, but it's worse than murder if you don't)
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freakazoid

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 12:34:37 AM »
Quote
Incidentally videoing police officer in a public place during traffic stop--illegal wiretapping.

They ruled that it was illegal wiretapping?
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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 03:02:49 AM »
They ruled that it was illegal wiretapping?

Yeah, the judge threw that charge out the very next day after the cops arrested him for it. Stated quite simply that she could not see in any way that the video taping was wiretapping.

Still doesn't change how effed up this is though.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 04:28:48 AM »
the very next day



er no


and hes still facing those charges  direct indictment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg





http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/08/06/maryland-attorney-general-sides-with-anthony-graber/  he might beat the wiretap charges but hes toast on the career limiting other charges. great stuff when you post your own video for them to use against you
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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kgbsquirrel

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 06:26:18 AM »
the very next day



er no


and hes still facing those charges  direct indictment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg





http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/08/06/maryland-attorney-general-sides-with-anthony-graber/  he might beat the wiretap charges but hes toast on the career limiting other charges. great stuff when you post your own video for them to use against you

It would seem I misremembered the quote, he was released from jail the day after he was arrested for "wiretapping" during which time: “The judge who released me looked at the paperwork and said she didn’t see where I violated the wiretapping law.”

http://carlosmiller.com/2010/04/16/maryland-motorcyclist-spends-26-hours-in-jail-on-wiretapping-charge-for-filming-cop-with-gun/

I thought they had dismissed the wiretapping charges at that time.

dogmush

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 08:57:35 AM »
Note: I'm NOT advocating violence here, but posing a question.

Fathers:

If a gov employee can take [nekkid] pictures of your underage daughter, on a laptop she's REQUIRED to have, and there's [apparentlly] no legal means to stop him, why not just shoot him?

Or on a broader scale;

Folks are told not to take the law into their own hands (except in the most extreme cases), but to call the police and let the courts handle it.  At what point does the "courts handling it" get so far out of touch with society's expectations and mores that that's no longer an acceptable choice.  And what happens then?

I would have thought that surrepitous recording of your minor children in your own home would have been obviously across the line of right vs. wrong.  Apparently, the courts and I disagree there.

ETA:

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy
mens rea

Yeah like the mens rea evident when a 15yo girl sends a topless pic to her boyfriend.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 09:16:46 AM by dogmush »

HankB

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 09:23:23 AM »
. . . he might beat the wiretap charges but hes toast on the career limiting other charges. great stuff when you post your own video for them to use against you
I don't think ANYONE defended cycleboy's reckless motorcycling - he ought to get a lot of points on his license and it should cost him some serious $$$. (Does MD use a point system for moving violations?)

But the "wiretapping" charges, police raid, etc., are so much bovine excrement and the cop shouldn't have pulled a gun - probably not at all, but certainly not without identifying himself; he should've been holding up his badge instead.

A fair part of this appears to be police and prosecutorial misconduct - and they (meaning the individuals involved) ought to suffer some consequences as well.

. . . At what point does the "courts handling it" get so far out of touch with society's expectations and mores that that's no longer an acceptable choice.  And what happens then?
Vigilantism.

And that can get out of hand so fast that it won't benefit anyone=(
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dogmush

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 10:04:32 AM »

Vigilantism.

And that can get out of hand so fast that it won't benefit anyone=(

In my darker, more introspective moments, that is what worries me.

MechAg94

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 10:16:40 AM »
You wouldn't be the first or the last, just be prepared for the bureaucracy to go after you harder than they do any criminal.

The history channel occasionally does a show on the history of vigilantism in the US.  There has been quite a bit and that was just the documented stuff.
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HankB

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 10:24:38 AM »
You wouldn't be the first or the last, just be prepared for the bureaucracy to go after you harder than they do any criminal.
I remember when a guy was murdering black children in Atlanta . . . oh, it must be 30 years ago by now. The police were ineffective in stopping him, so the parents started doing things like walking their kids to school or waiting with them at the school bus stops while carrying baseball bats. Neighborhoods were organizing so if one parent was unavailable, others would cover - they wanted to protect their children, whether it was on the way to school, at the library, playing neigborhood baseball games, whatever.

How did officialdom respond? Reports at the time had it that the police expended more effort harassing the anxious "vigilante" parents then then did looking for the killer.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 11:33:49 AM by HankB »
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 11:00:50 AM »
That steams me.

On a related note, I woke up today to the radio telling me about a man in Oklahoma that reported his wife missing when she and his truck were gone for a couple days, with no notice.

4 days and an expensive (wo)manhunt later, she was found in Corpus Christi, TX, shacked up with some other guy.

The huband got a bill for (undisclosed) tens of thousands of dollars for the cost of the (wo)manhunt, and the woman got arrested for unauthorized use of another person's vehicle.  Unknown if the auto title had both of their names on it or not, or the insurance... but whatever.

I become more and more convinced that I really don't need to use the police to resolve any problems in my life.
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RevDisk

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2010, 11:08:12 AM »
Vigilantism.

And that can get out of hand so fast that it won't benefit anyone.  =(

I still do wonder how we as a society got to the point were vigilantism is considered a bad thing.   Probably about the time dueling went out of favor.  We can see how well that turned out.  Now personal disputes are handled strictly through an arbitrary, often corrupt and always expensive legal system governed by a set of laws that completely redefines byzantine and is impossible for ANY human to understand.  Gee, what progress. 



Re the article...  From what I understand, the feds somehow grabbed the case and then declined to prosecute even though it was virtually gift wrapped for them.   Hopefully, we can grab it back down to the state level and prosecute the hell out of them.  The point is not just to make these people pay for their crimes.  The most important part is to never allow them to ever be in a position to do so again.  A felony conviction is the ONLY way to do so.   Otherwise, this will all blow over eventually, they will move to some other school and continue their actions.  The parents are still going nuts and AFAIK, the civil suit is basically a slam dunk.  Likely be settled out of court, unfortunately.

A lot of folks are displeased.   We recently had two judges sending kids to hell camps for crimes they did not commit.   Now this?  No.  We are sorting out the judges.  We WOULD have dealt with this if it wasn't for the feds directly trying to shelter pervs and tyrants just because they receive a government paycheck.  But I suppose that is their job, right? 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 11:13:37 AM by RevDisk »
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Tallpine

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2010, 11:11:26 AM »
Well, if the TSA can do it, why not schools?  ;/
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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2010, 11:32:56 AM »
Re the article...  From what I understand, the feds somehow grabbed the case and then declined to prosecute even though it was virtually gift wrapped for them.  

With the amount of surreptitious electronic surveillance being conducted by the alphabet agencies does it really surprise you that they are declining to set a precedent at the Federal court level against such things? USSID 18 has been all but gutted by various "anti-terrorism" laws.

BridgeRunner

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 11:38:10 AM »
I still do wonder how we as a society got to the point were vigilantism is considered a bad thing. 

+1

Particularly re domesic violence/ongoing threats to the safety of vulnerable people.  Of course, it's not entirely gone.  Friend of mine is a good shot and a future prosecutor.

Her sister is still alive because her brother in law knows how good of a shot she is, not because of the prosecutor.

wmenorr67

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2010, 11:58:34 AM »
Just because no one else has said it yet, "But it is for the children!" :facepalm: [popcorn] :police: =D
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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 12:23:26 PM »
Mens rea is an antiquated and much-forgotten concept for many criminal cases, why not this one?  [popcorn]

Because gov't is reluctant to take gov't to task for actions that would get a non-gov't-employee citizen hounded to the ends of the Earth.



Vigilantism occurs when gov't does not hold up its end of the deal. 

What was the deal?  Citizens give up the right to personal vendetta & personal vengeance in return for gov't handing out justice, part of which is punishment (vengeance) for damage done to persons or property.

I'd rather gov't kept up its end of the deal, but I will not fetishize gov't by saying vigilantism is never right. ANd, yes, it will get ugly if the deal is seen to be broken by a goodly number of folks.



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MechAg94

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 04:11:42 PM »
I still do wonder how we as a society got to the point were vigilantism is considered a bad thing.  
In all fairness, vigilantism can turn into mob justice pretty fast with little thought to actual evidence or proof. 

1.  It is a good thing that we do not give up on our justice system too quickly. 
2.  It is also a good thing IMO that many would be willing to take care of things if events called for it. 
3.  It is also a given that the govt will not give up its monopoly on justice willingly.  Death Wish was just a movie, but the police and politician response was accurate IMO.  They didn't give a damn that the city was overrun with crime, but they would move heaven and earth to go after the vigilante.  Thankfully things have gotten better since 1974 in most places.
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BReilley

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2010, 12:56:46 AM »
On a related note, I woke up today to the radio telling me about a man in Oklahoma that reported his wife missing when she and his truck were gone for a couple days, with no notice.

4 days and an expensive (wo)manhunt later, she was found in Corpus Christi, TX, shacked up with some other guy.

The huband got a bill for (undisclosed) tens of thousands of dollars for the cost of the (wo)manhunt, and the woman got arrested for unauthorized use of another person's vehicle.  Unknown if the auto title had both of their names on it or not, or the insurance... but whatever.

I become more and more convinced that I really don't need to use the police to resolve any problems in my life.

No doubt.  I wonder what sort of charges the husband would've faced had he not reported her missing, and she wound up dead.
Regarding the passage of manhunt costs on to the husband - I am reminded of an argument we had here when the jetliner went down into the Hudson River last year.  All parties acted in good faith and the best possible outcome was had, and yet there were those who argued that "someone has to pay".

Vigilantism occurs when gov't does not hold up its end of the deal.

Between taxation, revenue-generating police practices(combined with ever-lower emphasis on actual police work), and the ever-more-complex and contradictory system of laws RevDisk mentioned, I'd say the government long ago lost interest in holding up its end of any "deal".

It's become us against them - not in a revolutionary or existential sense, but the average American is pretty much prey for his government.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

Tallpine

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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2010, 03:32:12 PM »
How is vigilantism that much different that the Criminal inJustice system?  =|

Both are mob rule, but one is better organized.
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Re: No charges filed against school that spied on students w/webcams
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2010, 06:08:54 PM »
*nomex underwear ON*

Problem is, I don't think they did anything illegal.  Reprehensible, yes, but not illegal.

If the equipment was owned and managed by the school, laws have recognized the owner/manager of equipment's rights to monitor that equipment.  Same laws that allow your employer to monitor your web surfing.

Just another example of laws not keeping up with technology, I am afraid.
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