Author Topic: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"  (Read 10186 times)

Ben

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$400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« on: October 27, 2010, 11:20:59 AM »
Saw this on another forum. I didn't see a link to a mainstream news source, but if accurate... Really? We have food deserts now?

http://patriotpost.us/opinion/terence-jeffrey/2010/10/27/michelle-obamas-400-million-food-desert-scam/
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longeyes

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 11:50:35 AM »
BarryMarts?  Catchy.
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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 11:51:59 AM »
Yep, this is going to work as well as the CRA.....
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longeyes

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 11:57:12 AM »
No doubt the Obamas have many friends in Chicago and elsewhere who want government-subsidized food franchises as cash cows.
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41magsnub

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 12:24:25 PM »
As I recall when I read about this a few years ago..  the food deserts are primarily in low income areas and exist to a large extent due to theft along with the lower income customer base making it not economically feasible to run a grocery store in those neighborhoods.

I do believe that if this is a problem government feels the need to step in on it best addressed on a local or state level rather than federal level.  As a tax payer I do not feel an obligation to cover subsidies to businesses in another state for a grocery store.

charby

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 12:34:10 PM »
Cut the $$$ in food stamps given and go back to the government commodities program. That way folks on aide will get food that is healthy.

Food stamps are given at a lower value, but the money that is taken away is made up in food.

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HankB

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 12:54:29 PM »
As I recall when I read about this a few years ago..  the food deserts are primarily in low income areas and exist to a large extent due to theft along with the lower income customer base making it not economically feasible to run a grocery store in those neighborhoods.
I remember after each round of urban riots, numerous grocery stores that were looted and/or burned were not rebuilt, and various "community organizers" were threatening lawsuits to force them to rebuild and reopen.

I even remember when Sears was closing a Chicago store in what was a "changing neighborhood" that some locals (IIRC, Jesse Jackson was among them) were demanding the store remain open. Sears' position was that theft and vandalism made it uneconomical to do so.

Fortunately, this is still America, and .gov doesn't have the power to force someone to stay in business that way.

As for the proposed subsidy . . .  :facepalm: [barf]
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vaskidmark

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 01:35:41 PM »
Strange as it sounds, I would rather see the subsidy money go into urban mass transit that actually connects people with the city.  Richmond, Va has buses going from the downtown black hole out to many of the suburban arteries where low-skill/no-skill jobs are to be had, but getting from the slums/projects/neighborhoods to the inner-city core is impossible.  The nearest bus stop to me is 3/4 of a mile and there is no flagging down of the behemoth as it rolls by 200 yards from my front door.  Washington D.C. used to have a really good surface bus system but the Metro subway killed off several of the routes and made the walk to public transit a few bloks longer in many cases.  Chicago used to have buses/rail available probably no more than 2 blocks away no matter where you were - don't know how it is now (since the 60s).  NYC, for all its other foibles, has a fairly accessable public transit system.  (Yes, I'm an East-Coast familiar guy - no real knowledge of public transit east of Chicago.)

I mention this because public transit can get folks to where the goods and services are instead of trying to throw more money away forcing goods and services to locate where they know they will lose money and waste the taxpayers' money trying to subsidize the effort. Public transit is also what moves folks out of racially/economically segregatred neighborhoods and to employment.  It's less obvious than it was in the late 1800's/early 1900's but one can still follow the "trolley tracks" as folks move up in economic strata.

Someone once tried to shoot down the idea of more public transit from the economically disadvantaged parts of town to where good/services were still available.  Their argument was that the thugs and criminals would take public transit.  Until the buses/trolleys/trains run as frequently and pervasively as they do in NYC I don't see that happening.  No shoplifter is going to hang out at the bus stop for 10 minutes waiting to get their loot home.  And even if they did, it should not take the cops but a few months to begin figuring out that is the escape route of choice.

OR --

There could be a paradigm shift and folks who currently live in "food deserts" could begin eliminating some of the anti-social behavious that make it economically unadvantageous for grocery stores/ drug stores, and the like to operate in those areas.  Or is that being racist?

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MechAg94

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 01:54:54 PM »
It would be much cheaper and more economical to just improve the bus system in those areas.  Mass transit is a bigger waste of money than anything Michelle will come up with and it will likely be further away from you.  You will spend 10 times the money (probably more than that) of a better bus system and have zero flexibility.

In addition, are those inner city areas cheaper to live in?  In Houston, with fewer zoning/permit issues, that is not the case at all.  The easiest thing for everyone is for people to live where work is.  That can be difficult in some places.


Looking at the comments on the article, it was mentioned that WalMart has been trying to get stores in inner city areas in many cities for years, but local politicians and zoning people keep them out.  Not sure how true that is.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 02:10:46 PM by MechAg94 »
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Scout26

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 06:15:32 PM »
Looking at the comments on the article, it was mentioned that WalMart has been trying to get stores in inner city areas in many cities for years, but local politicians and zoning people keep them out.  Not sure how true that is.

Oh, it's true.  Da Mayor and the Chicago City Council (at the behest of the unions) have done their damndest to keep Wal-mart out, because they refuse to "Provide jobs that pay a living wage".  in otherwords refuse to unionize. 

Then the same council members members scream about the "food deserts" in their wards.  Morons.  They (the alderman and the voters) deserve each other and get what they deserve. 
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Boomhauer

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 06:30:56 PM »
Quote
Fortunately, this is still America, and .gov doesn't have the power to force someone to stay in business that way

"Doesn't have the power" hasn't stopped the government from doing what it wants lately.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2010, 06:50:30 PM »
not sure i buy the 400 mill but there are definitely parts of town where you can score dope but not milk and diapers.  mass transit?  i remember the first part of the dc subway served montgomery county. the richest part of town  except maybe fairfax
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Perd Hapley

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2010, 07:07:14 PM »
"Food desert" has been a left-wing buzzword for some years now. I could be wrong, but isn't it progress that our poor people have an unbalanced diet, rather than a very meager one?

« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 07:14:18 PM by Fistful »
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41magsnub

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 07:17:27 PM »
"Food desert" has been a left-wing buzzword for some years now. I could be wrong, but isn't it progress that our poor people have an unbalanced diet, rather than a very meager one?

P.S. I just can't get into eating vegetables and fruits, and I'm not dying yet.  =|

Does your diet consist primarily of gas station burritos, mc donalds, "grape drink", and taco bell?  Whatever the cause and whom/whatever is to blame I believe this is a real problem for those areas.  I don't think it is a federal problem and do not want my tax dollars going to an attempt to address it.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2010, 07:23:27 PM »
i agree it would seem more appropriate for localities to make available some property  extend local tax credits to a bus to open up in those areas.  i've lived in that part of time its not easy with no car  you get stuck buying high priced crap .  and contrary to some opinion there are amongst the parasites a surprising number of fine folks who for a variety of reason can't/won't relocate
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Perd Hapley

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2010, 07:26:19 PM »
Does your diet consist primarily of gas station burritos, mc donalds, "grape drink", and taco bell?  Whatever the cause and whom/whatever is to blame I believe this is a real problem for those areas. 

I think it's a real problem, but I kinda doubt it's a serious one. Then again, I'm no nutritionist.

Anyway, I redacted the last comment, because I figure it is probably more of a problem for children than for fistful-aged people.
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Ned Hamford

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 07:39:18 PM »
This is why we can't have nice things!
 :lol:

I had an eye opening exposure to... unhealthy cultures when visiting New Orleans.  If you slash the tires of the aid trucks enough times they eventually stop coming.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 11:34:11 AM »
Don't have time to read the link now, but yes, we have food deserts.  Detroit is one of the worst cases--probably mentioned in the post/article. 

There's always private industry solutions:  Ikea runs a private bus several times daily from Campus Martius (downtown Detroit) out to Canton, the wealthy southwestern suburb where the store is located.  Of course, they mostly sell novelty foods, but they have a low-cost restaurant with more "real food" that is to be found at McDonald's et al. 

If Wal-mart ran a private bus line from key locations in Detroit out to suburban stores, I bet they wouldn't lose money. 

The problem in Detroit now is substantially one of population density.  It's as thinly populated as an outer suburb, but very few people have the ability to travel far because of transportation issues.  The cost of auto insurance in Detroit is sky-high, for some reason.  Mostly, actually, not due to theft, although that is a major factor, but mostly because most drivers in Detroit are uninsured.  Don't have a reliable source, just the word of friends who live there. 

It is a real problem.  Crime is high and neglect is higher, but there are a whole lot of good people trying to live their lives and it is increasingly hard to survive as Detroit becomes more and more of a burned out pit of despair.  Friend of mine bought a house there for $8000, and has spend several times that in the legal hours working on ousting squatters.  Sometimes, it's handy to be an unemployed laywer.  =|

Sorry to be rambly, I'll read the link when I get a chance and can comment more intelligibly. 

HankB

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 12:21:42 PM »
  . . .  Friend of mine bought a house there for $8000, and has spend several times that in the legal hours working on ousting squatters . . .
Assuming we're not talking about evicting renters (you DID say "squatters") which can sometimes become complicated . . . in more civilized states there's less of a need to spend "legal hours" to remove someone who has invaded YOUR home. Typically, the responding police will haul them off in cuffs . . . if for no other reason than the squatter's own safety.

If that's not the case in Detroit . . . no wonder it's become a cesspit.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 12:29:28 PM »
Based on what I've seen of these poor inner city areas, I don't understand how you can run a business at all there.  Not a legitimate business, anyway.  How would you get your place insured?  How would you convince delivery drivers to come?  Could you find any quality employees to hire?

And this may not be politically correct, but from what I've seen, I doubt that "living healthy" is a high priority for most of the inhabitants.  Even if an organic health food store magically appeared from the sky, would anyone shop there?

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 12:32:14 PM »
It is a real problem.  Crime is high and neglect is higher, but there are a whole lot of good people trying to live their lives and it is increasingly hard to survive as Detroit becomes more and more of a burned out pit of despair.  Friend of mine bought a house there for $8000, and has spend several times that in the legal hours working on ousting squatters.  Sometimes, it's handy to be an unemployed laywer.  =|
There have been a number of real estate auction in Detroit where the houses up for sale got no bid at any price.  These properties are literally worth less than nothing.  Even if you acquired the property for free, you'd still lose more on the deal than you could ever hope to recoup from it.

BridgeRunner

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 02:21:25 PM »
If that's not the case in Detroit . . .

Bingo.  Absentee land ownership is a risky proposition.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2010, 02:50:50 PM »
Based on what I've seen of these poor inner city areas, I don't understand how you can run a business at all there.  Not a legitimate business, anyway.  How would you get your place insured?  How would you convince delivery drivers to come?  Could you find any quality employees to hire?

And this may not be politically correct, but from what I've seen, I doubt that "living healthy" is a high priority for most of the inhabitants.  Even if an organic health food store magically appeared from the sky, would anyone shop there?


you might be surprised.  but it would require you to live down there.  and that might be more surprise than you  want  [popcorn]
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2010, 03:08:47 PM »
I admit I've never lived in this sort of neighborhood, but I have done plenty of property inspections in them.  I've seen enough to conclude that it's not the sort of place I'd want to invest any real time or money.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: $400 Million for "Food Deserts"
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2010, 03:15:24 PM »
if you live in that kinda hood it changes. you move off the menu for the locals and they will look out for ya if they like ya.  i used to let a homeless guy camp under my front porch ran him an extension cord and helped him out a lil.  the shelters and such in dc gave him a place to shower and eat  he just wanted a place to crash.  it was like having a security guard. highly motivated.  he was a bit out there but we got along  he was a nam vet a few years older than me. as far as i know hes still on that street
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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