Warrantless GPS-ing

[AZRedhawk44]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110303/D9LNEKJ00.html

Two days later, Afifi says, agents wearing bullet-proof vests pulled him over as he drove away from his apartment in San Jose, Calif., and demanded their property back.

If I find something like that, ever... first thing I'm doing is driving out in the desert and putting manymanymany bullet holes in it.  Like 5 full 30rd AR magazines.

Judges have disagreed over whether search warrants should be required for GPS tracking.

I consider it trespass, an invasion of 4th amendment rights, and unlawful modification of my vehicle.

I'd even send them an invoice for whatever I scientifically calculated the fuel economy to drop as a result of the extra mass attached to the car.  Maybe $0.25.

[bedlamite]

No, don't destroy it. Stick it on the bumper of a Greyhound bus.

[230RN]

I guess the moral is to change your oil often.

... arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."

Scar-eee.

... arguing that investigators will lose access to an unconstitutional tool they now use "with great frequency."

More bettah.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

No, don't destroy it. Stick it on the bumper of a Greyhound bus.

stick it on the mayors car  or the police chiefs  or their spouses

[makattak]

stick it on the mayors car  or the police chiefs  or their spouses

Hey, if they don't need a warrant for this, can't I just put one on anyone's car I want to know about?

Forget waiting on a GPS put on your car, get proactive!

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/product-features.asp?id=964786226

[MillCreek]

Although I cannot lay my hands on it right now, I read of a similar story up here in the Pacific NW recently.  The difference here, was that it was Safeway tracking a professional shoplifting team.  While the car was parked in a Safeway lot, Safeway security put a GPS bug on their vehicle.  Safeway was then able to track when the team came to a Safeway, and they used that information to gather video evidence of their thefts, resulting in their arrests. Note that this was not a governmental agency doing the bugging, but a private corporation. Interesting.

[RevDisk]

stick it on the mayors car  or the police chiefs  or their spouses

Nope.  Stick it on the car of a journalist, activist or whatnot, and then anonymously let them know. 

[makattak]

Nope.  Stick it on the car of a journalist, activist or whatnot, and then anonymously let them know. 

And this is why I come here. Always someone more devious, errr, smarter than me.

[HankB]

1. The story said that agents "demanded" the guy return the device. Sorry, guys, you put it on my car, it's a GIFT, and you're NOT getting it back without a court order. Assuming I still have it at all.

2. Placing it on another vehicle is an idea that has merit. Especially if you can locate, say, the spouse of a fed.gov LEO. An anonymous phone call to said spouse could result in much hilarity, depending on what is said. (A message "accidentally" left on the "wrong" answering machine - ostensibly to contact the other spouse - is only one possibility.)

3. Transfer bug to a network news reporter's car or news van - think they'll run a story?

[Angel Eyes]

The federal appeals court in the Washington circuit where Afifi's case was filed ruled in August that the collection of GPS data amounts to a government "search" that required a warrant. The Obama administration asked the court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable"

O RLY?  What part of "get a warrant" is too vague for you, sparky?

[sanglant]

how long until gps units in cell phones, are in the same tool bag?


or is that official issue man purse?

for the record i love mine. it's a great three day bag. even has loops for a night stick/maglite.

[MicroBalrog]

The argument appears to be that if they could get the information by just driving behind your car, they can get it in this way, since following you doesn't require a warrant.

A possible solution: Pass laws to require warrants for following a man, like in Germany.

A possible problem: Not requiring warrants for following a man made some degree of sense when the desire of police to track individuals was limited by costs, the number of police available, and so forth. This is no longer an issue with the cost of GPS tracking equipment drawing cheaper by the day.

[kgbsquirrel]

The argument appears to be that if they could get the information by just driving behind your car, they can get it in this way, since following you doesn't require a warrant.

A possible solution: Pass laws to require warrants for following a man, like in Germany.

A possible problem: Not requiring warrants for following a man made some degree of sense when the desire of police to track individuals was limited by costs, the number of police available, and so forth. This is no longer an issue with the cost of GPS tracking equipment drawing cheaper by the day.

Also, back when you had to physically follow a man it was much harder to follow said man onto/into private property were a warrant was required.

[KD5NRH]

No, don't destroy it. Stick it on the bumper of a Greyhound bus.

Or hack into the NMEA data stream, build an interface to feed the transmitter from, say Flight Simulator or Google Earth, and have some real fun.

"Sir, the tracker is reporting it just flew across the country and landed in the courtyard of the Pentagon."

[RoadKingLarry]

Go to Wallyworld, buy helium ballon kit. Strap as many ballons as needed to GPS bug and set it free.

[nigmalg]

What would be the charge if I were to apply a GPS tracking device directly to a marked police vehicle? According to the FBI, why, nothing at all!

[RevDisk]

What would be the charge if I were to apply a GPS tracking device directly to a marked police vehicle? According to the FBI, why, nothing at all!

From what I understand, warrantless wiretapping is reserved to the police and intelligence folks.  I'm not sure of the legal justification, but the regular wiretapping laws apply to you as a citizen.  If you did so on your own accord and did not notify the property owner, you'd probably face charges. 

[HankB]

From what I understand, warrantless wiretapping is reserved to the police and intelligence folks.  I'm not sure of the legal justification, but the regular wiretapping laws apply to you as a citizen.  If you did so on your own accord and did not notify the property owner, you'd probably face charges. 

But if the Feds, and not you, were getting the data stream?

[Perd Hapley]

The argument appears to be that if they could get the information by just driving behind your car, they can get it in this way, since following you doesn't require a warrant.

A possible solution: Pass laws to require warrants for following a man, like in Germany.

Or just pass a law that law enforcement can't mess with your car, at whim. Oh, yeah, the fourth amendment says that.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

its that pesky expectation of privacy thing

[MicroBalrog]

its that pesky expectation of privacy thing

Expectation of privacy is effectively a doctrine set by the courts. The courts in America currently believe you have none of it when you travel outside your home, but that could easily be changed.

[Perd Hapley]

its that pesky expectation of privacy thing

Oh, I don't expect any privacy when I'm driving about on the public roads. But I do insist that no one has a right to mess with my cars. Not without a warrant, or probable cause, or the like. LEO can follow me and videotape me all they want. But they don't get to meddle with my property without a very good, articulable reason.

I just thought that was kinda basic.

[TechMan]

Wired article on what the FBI is using for GPS tracking, with pictures.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/gps-gallery/

[Tallpine]

If I found all that on my car, I would probably call the bomb squad 

[AZRedhawk44]

So the cylinder is a battery compartment (C-cells?) and the wire plugs into the right end.  Base is magnetized for rapid attachment.  Little grey box is GPS receiver, which feeds its data into the black box that transmits.  Black box is modified G3 cell phone or data modem?  Or a more proprietary interface for a tail car?