Author Topic: Can I fix this?  (Read 64256 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2011, 06:59:52 PM »
Nice knowing you, Mrs. Smith.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2011, 07:08:03 PM »
Mrs. Smith, how old is your house? I ask because if it's old, with crumbling insulation on the wires, you might inadvertently cause problems worse than a broken chain.

If it's a newer home with nice flexible insulation on the wires, then I'd feel better about you getting inside that fixture.

It's really simple if that's the case. Just make sure that you put the hot wire of the outlet to the hot wire coming out of the junction box, the neutral to the neutral, and the ground to wherever the ground wire is running now in the box. Wrap electricians tape around the wire nuts, and make sure there's no bare wire showing anywhere, or that the wire nuts are too loose and came come off when you put everything back together.

If nothing else, borrow a neighbor who knows how to do this, and buy him/her mass quantities of his/her favorite beverage. You don't need to pay an electrician a couple of hundred dollars.

Boomhauer

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2011, 07:10:33 PM »
You know, I bet if you visit ThisOldHouse.com or Popular Mechanics they either have a vid covering basic fixture work or an article with accompanying photos...
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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MrsSmith

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2011, 07:35:47 PM »
Dogmush wins the best suggestion award:
Do you have a handy kind of friend that needs beer?
Now THAT is my idea of easy! Besides, I haven't played the girl card in a while. Well, except for the cable guy that was here the other day. I had him move a tv from one room to another and kill a spider, but that's what he gets for flirting with me when I'm old enough to be his mother. (When did they start letting ten y.o. boys make repair calls?) I'd rather play the girl card than risk having to report back to you guys that I burned down the house or electrocuted myself. Though I haven't yet had the opportunity to blame Fistful for anything and after that remark he made I find myself eager to, so it might be worth trying it myself just for that reason. Then again, I'm sure other opportunities will arise that don't require such effort on my part.

I'm sure I can round up a handy friend and I'll watch everything he does so I'll learn. And I'll pick up the tools you mentioned Dogmush. I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?

Scout - I DO know how to program my appliances! I'm female, I can read directions.

Avenger - lives wires are fairly safe? Uh huh.

To answer Avenger and Monkeyleg, the house was built in the 70s. Have no idea what the wire insulation looks like.
America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe

Boomhauer

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2011, 08:11:07 PM »
Quote
the house was built in the 70s. Have no idea what the wire insulation looks like.

Mixed bag. Could be a well done setup that's easy to work on or could be a nightmare (especially if a Tim the Toolman type got ahold of it and tried a home improvement project). You're definitely going the right path in this case of getting a mentor for this project.

Quote
lives wires are fairly safe? Uh huh.

Yes, in the case of replacing a fixture such as this live isn't much of a problem for swapping fixtures or disconnecting and reconnecting later. Anything more involved and you'd definitely want to cut that circuit off. I work on electrical at work. Some stuff I cut off, some stuff I work on live, all depending on the circumstances.

Quote
ll he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?

A bastard. Hit up the pawn shops and look for craftsman and snap-on tools to stock up on basic hand tools...a visit to harbor freight nets you nice, cheap digital multimeters and consumables such as electrical tape, wire nuts, and so on...











« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:16:40 PM by Avenger29 »
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

lee n. field

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2011, 08:17:35 PM »
My brother is an electrician. Couple of months ago he gripped a wire that he thought wasn't live. It was. As he said "fortunatly, I fell off the ladder, which got my hand off the wire" :laugh:.

Once, twenty five some-odd years ago, I cut through a wire I thought was dead, that wasn't.   120V Romex house wire, prob. 15 A circuit. It burned the tip off the sidecutters. I keep the sidecutters around, as a reminder.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:23:13 PM by lee n. field »
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Boomhauer

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2011, 08:31:41 PM »
Once, twenty five some-odd years ago, I cut through a wire I thought was dead, that wasn't.   120V Romex house wire, prob. 15 A circuit. It burned the tip off the sidecutters. I keep the sidecutters around, as a reminder.

When working with "dead" circuits, I always keep in mind "Hey, some dumbass might have flipped the breaker, or cut the lockout lock/tag off..."
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

TechMan

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2011, 08:58:41 PM »
In regards to "Hold my beer and watch this" there are 8,300 youtube videos associated with that phrase.  Have fun: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hold+my+beer+and+watch+this&aq=4&oq=hold+my+beer+
Quote
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Waitone

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2011, 09:01:18 PM »
What you want done is easy the second time you try it.  First time via correspondence . . . . not so much.  A male of the species will respond favorably to a damsel in distress; particularly one sporting a supply of malt beverages. 
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

AJ Dual

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2011, 09:20:28 PM »
As to messing with live wires, back in high school, and the early years of college when I was living at home still, I was always futzing with the phone lines for my modem. I was in a hurry and too lazy to go downstairs to the basement workbench for a wire stripper, and figured phone wire was low voltage and would be fine if I only had one wire at a time in my teeth.

Well, a wire slipped back in, and dial tone/on hook is about 48V with a really interesting sensation from the dual sine-waves that make the tone, and if you've got really bad luck, the ring is 90V or more...  Took a week for those teeth that got hit to feel right again. =|
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2011, 09:31:13 PM »
Attach beer to fishing pole.

Scout out reputable electrician.

Wait until he's finished for the day.

Dangle beer in his path.

Lead to light fixture.

Let him know the rest of thle case will appear when the light turns on.

Eay peasy....
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Scout26

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2011, 09:46:49 PM »
As to messing with live wires, back in high school, and the early years of college when I was living at home still, I was always futzing with the phone lines for my modem. I was in a hurry and too lazy to go downstairs to the basement workbench for a wire stripper, and figured phone wire was low voltage and would be fine if I only had one wire at a time in my teeth.

Well, a wire slipped back in, and dial tone/on hook is about 48V with a really interesting sensation from the dual sine-waves that make the tone, and if you've got really bad luck, the ring is 90V or more...  Took a week for those teeth that got hit to feel right again. =|

We used to make newb's in the Army do the TA-312 dance, back when I was enlisted Combat Signaler..
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Warhorse

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2011, 09:50:14 PM »
How come no one hit on the easy solution for wiring a 120 volt device of virtually any kind?

I have never seen one that did not have a silver and a brass colored set of screws plus a green one if there is to be a ground wire connected. The white wire connects to the silver screw and the black wire connects to the brass screw. Light wire to light screw and dark wire to dark screw. The bare or green wire connects to the green screw. [This, of course assumes that the house itself is not wired backwards!]

Buy a simple cheap voltmeter for insurance in avoiding a ZAP function. To verify the fixture is not powered, touch the black lead of the voltmeter (range set to greater than 120 volt max) to ground or the silver screw and the red lead to the brass screw. If there is ANY motion of the voltmeter needle, the fixture is HOT! Go find the breaker and turn it off before proceeding.

For the adventurous and lazy type, you can rewire the fixture with the line hot but the chances are very good that you will get careless and have a shocking experience. If you go this route anyway, wear rubber gloves - latex will do if you don't tear them - to reduce (note I didn't say eliminate) this chance.


After all that has been said, remove or at least back off the mounting screws to see if it is possible to get the chain back out and attach an extension chain. If so, all the replacing and rewiring of the fixture can be avoided.


Warhorse
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RocketMan

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2011, 09:51:31 PM »
And if the ground correct, the other two don't really matter.

Uh, not exactly.  Come on AJ and dogmush.  You need to give safe advice, or not give it at all.
You want the hot to connect to the center contact down inside the socket, the neutral to the outside shell of the socket.  It's a little thing called "safety".  You do not want the shell of the socket to be hot. There's too much of a chance of coming in contact with it while changing a burned out bulb, should you forget to trip the breaker first.  (The shell of the socket is the threaded part the bulb screws into.)
MrsSmith, connect the black (hot) wire to the brass colored screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver colored screw, and the ground wire (green insulated or completely bare) to the green tinted screw (assuming it is a screw-connected socket).  If it has wires coming out of it, just match the wire colors and wire nut them together per what Monkeyleg said.  That will put the hot side on the small center contact in the socket, and the neutral on the socket shell.  In a properly wired home, the neutral leg is tied to ground in the circuit breaker box and has no voltage on it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 09:59:12 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Scout26

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2011, 09:53:34 PM »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

AJ Dual

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2011, 09:57:27 PM »
We used to make newb's in the Army do the TA-312 dance, back when I was enlisted Combat Signaler..

In their mouth?  =D
I promise not to duck.

Scout26

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2011, 10:04:25 PM »
In their mouth?  =D

Nope, hold one wire in each hand.  Most people couldn't/wouldn't let go until the crank stopped turning......
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2011, 10:12:18 PM »
Um yeah, AJ.

How will I know the difference between hot, neutral and ground wires? Do they have little identifying tags on them?

Black is "hot." White is neutral. Green is ground.

The screws should be color coded: "Black to brass, white to bright (silver), clean to green."

You will probably have to buy a replacement socket with pull chain. Couple of bux at Lowe's or Home Despot.
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2011, 10:15:10 PM »
Though I haven't yet had the opportunity to blame Fistful for anything and after that remark he made I find myself eager to, so it might be worth frying myself just for that reason. Then again, I'm sure other opportunities will arise that don't require such effort on my part.

I'm sure I misunderstood you ...
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RocketMan

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2011, 10:16:17 PM »
Nope, hold one wire in each hand.  Most people couldn't/wouldn't let go until the crank stopped turning......

Oh, the fun we had with newbies in the comm shop. =D
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Scout26

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2011, 10:21:32 PM »
Oh, the fun we had with newbies in the comm shop. =D

Yep, welcome to "Electrifying Newbie's" 101.....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Boomhauer

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2011, 10:25:27 PM »
Uh, not exactly.  Come on AJ and dogmush.  You need to give safe advice, or not give it at all.
You want the hot to connect to the center contact down inside the socket, the neutral to the outside shell of the socket.  It's a little thing called "safety".  You do not want the shell of the socket to be hot. There's too much of a chance of coming in contact with it while changing a burned out bulb, should you forget to trip the breaker first.  (The shell of the socket is the threaded part the bulb screws into.)
MrsSmith, connect the black (hot) wire to the brass colored screw, the white (neutral) wire to the silver colored screw, and the ground wire (green insulated or completely bare) to the green tinted screw (assuming it is a screw-connected socket).  If it has wires coming out of it, just match the wire colors and wire nut them together per what Monkeyleg said.  That will put the hot side on the small center contact in the socket, and the neutral on the socket shell.  In a properly wired home, the neutral leg is tied to ground in the circuit breaker box and has no voltage on it.


And plus, for whoever works on it in the future, you don't want your work to cause them to go "WTF? Now who's the idiot that did this..."

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Hawkmoon

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2011, 10:28:57 PM »
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_to_wire_a_light_socket

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2fp5lp4OFk (Yeah, it shows a fawncy fixture, but the electricity doesn't know the difference)



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Monkeyleg

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2011, 10:46:05 PM »
Quote
Black is "hot." White is neutral. Green is ground.

That assumes that some home handyman didn't replace some wiring somewhere along the line and color-code the wires opposite of what they should be. The voltmeter is your friend. ;)

Scout26

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2011, 11:34:10 PM »
That assumes that some home handyman didn't replace some wiring somewhere along the line and color-code the wires opposite of what they should be. The voltmeter is your friend. ;)

Yep, before I rewired, I had light blue, red and orange wires, only occasionally a black and/or white.  And according to the polarity tester , the house should have burned down the first time someone threw a switch....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.